Chris Jericho would HATE SlyFox...

[It's...Baylariat!]

Look, I have lurked around the forums before I created a name and I know for a fact that IC25 made some compelling arguments for how underrated Vader was. Does that mean people are swayed to vote because of that? No. Most people are free thinkers and go on their own opinion of said wrestler.

I personally have seen Luger wrestle since he was in the Four Horsemen. He was all look and very little skill. That says something when your trainer was Hiro Matsuda. Don't know who that is? Look him up. Luger was all hype. All body, and very little talent. He can draw money like no other, and at his apex, he was as big as anyone in the biz outside of Hulk Hogan. But Luger was also criticized heavily because he wasn't professional, he hired a lawyer to negotiate his contracts, which was unprecedented for that time...and more than likely had a domino effect on how contracts work today. Luger was a shoddy worker who was over because of his body. He had some great matches with great wrestlers, but with wrestlers at his level? Not that good. His match with Yokozuna was terrible. His match with Hogan was good and his cheers were due to him actually beating Hogan for the belt, not because he was Lex Luger. DDMe, the Giant, Sting, Chris Benoit, Jericho, and many more would have gotten the same pop for beating Hogan. Not to mention he was plum awful on the mic.

Vader is a very accomplished wrestler in America and Japan. He's a marvel of modern science for being as round, big, and agile as he was. He's a former World Champion and competed for the Triple Crown in Japan as well. Did he accomplish as much as Luger in the states? No. Was he as over as Luger? No. Could he out wrestle Luger? Yes. Could Luger lift Vader in the Torture Rack? For a brief time until his back gave out.

The reason I voted for Vader was because Luger's not half the wrestler people make him out to be. Vader's a bad match up for Luger and Luger simply couldn't beat Vader and most definitely not in a Hardcore environment.

 

[Uncle Sam]

Hey...Stan Hansen nearly took down one of the biggest darlings in this Forum in Christian...and I know some of those votes were because of some educational points I made about the 'Bad Man from Borger'. If it had nothing to do with me, then that's even better.

...Christian won.

...

 

[Shocky]

nearly sam, nearly

 

[Uncle Sam]

But... the cap'n... made it happen.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Vader > Luger, it's that simple.

is that really even debatable?

 

[Shocky]

Yeah he did. It was an outside shot for Hansen to win against Christian in Toronto, but for it to be 26-25 is pretty impressive.
Oh wait, where's Vin Diesel telling me someting about winning...

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

But... the cap'n... made it happen.

The FANS made it happen. In a real match, Hansen does work on Christian.

 

[Murfish]

Christian won, but I almost voted Hansen.

 

[Milkyway!]

So I voted for Vader. Just beacuse IC told me to tbh.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

No he doesn't, what is this excrement spewing from your mouth? If "in-ring accomplishments" were why people win matches in the WZ Tournament, then guys like Stan Hansen, Greg Valentine, Barry Windham, Carlos Colon, Bruiser Brody, etc. would still be in.

He wins because of your incessant man-crush for him.

I backed Hansen. I think I backed Valentine. I know I backed Windham. I'd back Vader over ALL of them, but other than your confused delusions, we agree on much of it.

 

[Steamboat Ricky]

Luger shouldn't have advanced past Finlay...so there's no way that he would take out Vader.

 

[Slyfox696]

I am going to express myself here.

I think it is bullshit that people say people vote for Vader just because IC does. If that is the only excuse people can come up with than that is Sad. I support Vader because i truly believe that he can defeat Lex Luger in a match. And i stated my reasons. None of those reasons where because IC supports him. Now I made my case why Vader should take the win. If someone can come up with a really good case for Lex Luger and no one can say anything to counter that, then odds are that i will be swayed in that direction because it would truly mean something if you make a really, really good case and no one can counter it.

The fact that Lex Luger was a big time face and a big time heel, was one of the biggest players in wrestling during the 80s and 90s, was mega over in the two biggest wrestling companies in America, and is a wrestling legend isn't enough to convince you to vote for him?

What's so great about Vader anyways? People always talk about how Luger was "no skill"...if he had no skill, then why was he adored everywhere he went? And spare me the "look" bullshit, because I've seen hundreds of guys with a good body get no where in wrestling.

Hell, one of the biggest reasons people DO vote for Vader, aside from IC's politicking is because of VADER'S body. "Well, he's a big fat guy, he must be great". I mean seriously, if anyone gets votes because of their body, guys like Vader do. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

I personally have seen Luger wrestle since he was in the Four Horsemen. He was all look and very little skill. Luger was all hype. All body, and very little talent.

Bullshit, and for someone who apparently recognizes the greatness of someone like Brody, I'm disappointed in you for saying that.

What the fuck do you think "skill" is in wrestling? Being able to roll around on the mat doing fake moves to a willing partner? That's not skill, that's acting. The SKILL in wrestling comes from having the ability to make people care about you, and Lex Luger was able to make people care about more than just about any worker in the last 20-30 years. How is that not being skilled?

He can draw money like no other, and at his apex, he was as big as anyone in the biz outside of Hulk Hogan. But Luger was also criticized heavily because he wasn't professional, he hired a lawyer to negotiate his contracts, which was unprecedented for that time

He wasn't professional? What wasn't professional about him? As far as a lawyer negotiating his contracts...that's just being smart. Criticizing a guy for looking out for his own best interests is stupid. Athletes in all other sports have agents, why shouldn't wrestlers?

Luger was a shoddy worker who was over because of his body.

Bullshit, and it's this ignorance that ticks me off. If it was all about the body, then how come the Warlord wasn't a multi-time world champion? That guys was fucking ripped. How about Dino Bravo, a man with enormous muscles?

The body has fuck all to do with it. The fact that Luger was an incredible athlete and had the incredible ability to make people care about him is what made him over.

He had some great matches with great wrestlers, but with wrestlers at his level? Not that good.

Seriously, that's a stupid thing to say. He had great matches with great wrestlers...but bad matches with guys you feel are bad wrestlers? How the fuck are you supposed to have a good match with bad workers? No one can do that.

Vader is a very accomplished wrestler in America and Japan. He's a marvel of modern science for being as round, big, and agile as he was.

So, you're saying part of the charm to Vader is his body? How come it's ok for Vader to be over because of his body, but not Luger? Perhaps hypocrisy should be looked up and defined.

Did he accomplish as much as Luger in the states? No. Was he as over as Luger? No.

Exactly.

Could he out wrestle Luger? Yes.

How do you figure? On what basis do you figure this?

The reason I voted for Vader was because Luger's not half the wrestler people make him out to be.

Bullshit. Luger's TWICE the wrestler people make him out to be, because people like you keep saying the stupid ridiculous things like "he was only over because of his body".

I backed Hansen. I think I backed Valentine. I know I backed Windham.

But you only campaigned for Vader. And Vader was the only one of those who made it to the third round.

So for you to say that Vader got in because of his in-ring work, and that your backing had nothing to do with it is silly, because all of those guys were phenomenal in-ring workers.

 

[48.7 is Approximately 49 Times Better Than You]

The fact that Lex Luger was a big time face and a big time heel, was one of the biggest players in wrestling during the 80s and 90s, was mega over in the two biggest wrestling companies in America, and is a wrestling legend isn't enough to convince you to vote for him?

What's so great about Vader anyways? People always talk about how Luger was "no skill"...if he had no skill, then why was he adored everywhere he went? And spare me the "look" bullshit, because I've seen hundreds of guys with a good body get no where in wrestling.

Hell, one of the biggest reasons people DO vote for Vader, aside from IC's politicking is because of VADER'S body. "Well, he's a big fat guy, he must be great". I mean seriously, if anyone gets votes because of their body, guys like Vader do. The hypocrisy is ridiculous.

Bullshit, and for someone who apparently recognizes the greatness of someone like Brody, I'm disappointed in you for saying that.

What the fuck do you think "skill" is in wrestling? Being able to roll around on the mat doing fake moves to a willing partner? That's not skill, that's acting. The SKILL in wrestling comes from having the ability to make people care about you, and Lex Luger was able to make people care about more than just about any worker in the last 20-30 years. How is that not being skilled?

He wasn't professional? What wasn't professional about him? As far as a lawyer negotiating his contracts...that's just being smart. Criticizing a guy for looking out for his own best interests is stupid. Athletes in all other sports have agents, why shouldn't wrestlers?

Bullshit, and it's this ignorance that ticks me off. If it was all about the body, then how come the Warlord wasn't a multi-time world champion? That guys was fucking ripped. How about Dino Bravo, a man with enormous muscles?

The body has fuck all to do with it. The fact that Luger was an incredible athlete and had the incredible ability to make people care about him is what made him over.

Seriously, that's a stupid thing to say. He had great matches with great wrestlers...but bad matches with guys you feel are bad wrestlers? How the fuck are you supposed to have a good match with bad workers? No one can do that.

So, you're saying part of the charm to Vader is his body? How come it's ok for Vader to be over because of his body, but not Luger? Perhaps hypocrisy should be looked up and defined.

Exactly.

How do you figure? On what basis do you figure this?

Bullshit. Luger's TWICE the wrestler people make him out to be, because people like you keep saying the stupid ridiculous things like "he was only over because of his body".

But you only campaigned for Vader. And Vader was the only one of those who made it to the third round.

So for you to say that Vader got in because of his in-ring work, and that your backing had nothing to do with it is silly, because all of those guys were phenomenal in-ring workers.

I concur.

 

[BooCocky]

Luger is almost as cool as the Ultimate Warrior.

41 people have voted for Warrior, meaning just as many should vote Luger.

Vote Luger

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Not sure why you are apologizing. But I'd love to know an example of said "underhanded tactics."

Apologies for that...it was worded awkwardly. I'm just talking about that time you threatened me with "losing your respect" in the Misawa/Yokozuna match-up.

 

[IrishCanadian25]

Apologies for that...it was worded awkwardly. I'm just talking about that time you threatened me with "losing your respect" in the Misawa/Yokozuna match-up.

Probably not because of who you were backing...if you ever pulled the "anyone who votes for _____ is only doing so to kiss IC25's ass" then it wasn't underhanded debate, it was how I felt. But I don't remember last week's debate in the Yoko / Misawa match up. That was a great match-up, and you did very well for your guy.