Chances of Minnesota Vikings moving cities.

[Mac Attack]

The Minnesota Vikings are ripe for a change. I think with the possibility of a lockout we could/will see th Vikings move cities.

The fact of the matter is right now the Vikings are not in a good situation. They have no stadium. They have a shaky fan base. They have Brett Favre, whom is bad publicity, they have a college football stadium that doesn't allow the consumption of alchol. They have no box seats. They will have a lot of shoveling to do come December. They have had an awful season.

All the above are reasons as to why a switch of cities would be by far a better choice right now. Espeically with the lockout to be the backbone for a move I think it could help the franchise reshape itself. I think to get rid of its problems a city change may not be the worst thing. Or they could have a general change of of name and totally rebuild themselves.

As for a new city I would say Las Angeles. Why? Because it has a perfectly good stadium for them to use, an amazing fanbase, and high markability. I think if Vikings want to change then a move would be a good choice and Las Angeles is the best choice.

What do you think?

 

[texans420]

Los Angeles to me is one of the worst places for the NFL, period. Over the course of the last 50 years they have lost 3 teams: Rams, Chargers, and Raiders. Guess what, the Rams and Raiders both left after the 94 season. The Raiders skipped town and went back to Oakland for the same reason the Rams went to St Louis, the stadium situation. Lets face it, the LA Coliseum and the Rose Bowl were not exactly just built yesterday and, oh by the way, the Coliseum isn't exactly in a people friendly neighborhood to begin with. No team is going to play in those toilets unless they get a guarantee that a new stadium is on the way upon moving there.

The fans are another issue. LA is as bad as any city in the southern half of the US, meaning they are loaded with fair-weather fans. If it doesn't say Lakers on the marquee, no one in that city really gives a shit about any other sport. Surely, you've seen sporting events from LA on your TV, right. No one are in those seats even when the teams are good, just look at the Ducks for starters. Hell, they even had empty seats for playoff games until they made a deep run towards the cup just a few years ago. Face it, no one will show up for a loser because there is more to do on a sunny winter day in the southern half of the states than watch a garbage football team. Simply put, we're not buried under two feet of snow and it's not the only show in town like the Calgary Flames for example (or Oilers pending on your choice).

The Alamodome in San Antonio was the original spot for the Vikings to move back in the mid-90s. Red McCombs was all but ready to have that club moved down to Texas around the time all of this was happening in LA. The reason excapes me what saved the Vikings that time around. I do know that San Antonio is the largest city left in the US not named LA to not have an NFL team. The city is over one million, population wise not including the outer-metro area. The only difference is that people in San Antonio actually would care about a club being there because TEXAS IS FOOTBALL COUNTRY like Canada is to hockey(the greatest sport ever). If 50000 people show up to see Cedric Benson's state title game as a senior in HIGH SCHOOL (yes, that is a true story by the way), do you really think tickets would be hard to sell in this state, regardless of the city.

At the end of the day, I don't see the Vikings skipping town. One way I think I can help you is for you to go on youtube and watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary by Ice Cube called Straight Outta LA. The whole video is uploaded there.(not by me) It can at least give you an insight on why at least the Raiders left, anyway.

For the record, Houston and the state of Texas has its share of fair weather fans but football (at all levels) is still a very easy sell compared to other sports in this region because to us it is a way of life unlike in southern California.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Los Angeles to me is one of the worst places for the NFL, period. Over the course of the last 50 years they have lost 3 teams: Rams, Chargers, and Raiders. Guess what, the Rams and Raiders both left after the 94 season. The Raiders skipped town and went back to Oakland for the same reason the Rams went to St Louis, the stadium situation. Lets face it, the LA Coliseum and the Rose Bowl were not exactly just built yesterday and, oh by the way, the Coliseum isn't exactly in a people friendly neighborhood to begin with. No team is going to play in those toilets unless they get a guarantee that a new stadium is on the way upon moving there.

Okay, I'm going to address several points here because aside from your blatant homerism you're severely misinformed. The Raiders were never FROM Los Angeles to begin with. They only relocated due to the 89 earthquake that demolished their stadium. They were always on loan from the city of Oakland and Los Angeles knew it. Secondly, the Rams, while they started out in Los Angeles were moved to Anaheim when Georgia Frontiere took over the team. They were promised certain things by the city of Anaheim and the city failed to deliver. She asked permission to move the team and because of her frustration with the city of Anaheim she was granted this permission.

Secondly, the Coliseum's area is just fine. I attend USC football games on a yearly basis and not a damn thing has happened to me at one game. I've walked, BY MYSELF, two miles into the ghetto to purchase liquor for tailgating and nobody has even looked at me sideways. I've passed by gangbangers sitting on their cars and all they've done is flash me the V for Victory, say Fight On and let me go on my way. People in that area conduct themselves just as well as any other stadium located in rough areas. Atlanta's stadium is smack dab in the middle of a sketchy area, so is St. Louis', so is New Orleans. This logic is fucking stupid.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, since you clearly didn't do any research before you posted this, they wouldn't play at either the Coliseum or the Rose Bowl. Los Angeles has approved a new stadium to be constructed by Anschutz Entertain Group known as Farmer's Field. The only debate right now is whether it will go Downtown or in the City of Industry.

Here's the article if you'd care to do any research before posting these comments about Los Angeles and our stadiums

http://la.streetsblog.org/2011/04/04/l-a-stadium-battle-a-new-front-in-auto-driven-sprawl-and-transit-oriented-density/

The fans are another issue. LA is as bad as any city in the southern half of the US, meaning they are loaded with fair-weather fans. If it doesn't say Lakers on the marquee, no one in that city really gives a shit about any other sport. Surely, you've seen sporting events from LA on your TV, right. No one are in those seats even when the teams are good, just look at the Ducks for starters. Hell, they even had empty seats for playoff games until they made a deep run towards the cup just a few years ago. Face it, no one will show up for a loser because there is more to do on a sunny winter day in the southern half of the states than watch a garbage football team. Simply put, we're not buried under two feet of snow and it's not the only show in town like the Calgary Flames for example (or Oilers pending on your choice).

The ignorance of this statement is beyond reproach. First off, the fucking Ducks are located in Anaheim which is in Orange County, second off NHL attendance, ratings, and television deals on the WHOLE are down. NBC paid $200m for the rights to any NHL game they wanted to cover for the ENTIRE season. There are single teams, college conferences that have larger contracts than this.

Secondly, we are not fair-weather fans. USC games and UCLA games sell out regularly. This is a down economy, people cannot afford to attend every single game at all times. The Tampa Bay Rays didn't even have half their stands filled when they clinched the AL East, so it's not just "fairweather" Los Angeles fans. The Coliseum saw 80.000+ three times for USC games last year (I was at 3) and we were on probation, played horribly, and couldn't go to a bowl game. We support teams no matter how badly they are doing. Our lowest attendance outing was Nov. 6 Arizona State – 68,744. Still over 2,000 more than the Alamo Bowl's RECORD. It was also our lowest since 2003. When we played Oregon, however, it looked like this Oct. 30 Oregon – 88,726.

The Alamodome in San Antonio was the original spot for the Vikings to move back in the mid-90s. Red McCombs was all but ready to have that club moved down to Texas around the time all of this was happening in LA. The reason excapes me what saved the Vikings that time around. I do know that San Antonio is the largest city left in the US not named LA to not have an NFL team. The city is over one million, population wise not including the outer-metro area. The only difference is that people in San Antonio actually would care about a club being there because TEXAS IS FOOTBALL COUNTRY like Canada is to hockey(the greatest sport ever). If 50000 people show up to see Cedric Benson's state title game as a senior in HIGH SCHOOL (yes, that is a true story by the way), do you really think tickets would be hard to sell in this state, regardless of the city.

Blatant homerism, the Alamodome's record was 66,166. As a matter of fact, here's the attendance records for NFL games hosted in the Alamodome.

October 2, 2005 – Buffalo Bills vs. New Orleans Saints – Attendance: 58,688

October 16, 2005 – Atlanta Falcons vs. New Orleans Saints – Attendance: 65,562

December 24, 2005 – Detroit Lions vs. New Orleans Saints – Attendance: 63,747

According the the Pac-12 official attendance records, here is what USC did in the entire NATION (all 120 teams) in '09

National Rank - 11. Team-Southern California, Games-6, Total Attendance:508,796, Average Attendance-84,799

UCLA, ranked 25th in the nation, did higher than the Alamo Bowl. I guess your stupid theory that we don't support our teams has been shot to shit. Our two biggest schools were both ranked in the Top 25 in the NATION for average attendance. USC crushed the Alamodome's turnout record and we had a down year. UCLA did just about the same and they fucking BLEW.

The entire state of Texas only had two fucking teams in the top 30 for national attendance of collegiate games; Texas and Texas A&M. California had 3; USC, UCLA, and Cal. So much for that theory.

At the end of the day, I don't see the Vikings skipping town. One way I think I can help you is for you to go on youtube and watch the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary by Ice Cube called Straight Outta LA. The whole video is uploaded there.(not by me) It can at least give you an insight on why at least the Raiders left, anyway.

For the record, Houston and the state of Texas has its share of fair weather fans but football (at all levels) is still a very easy sell compared to other sports in this region because to us it is a way of life unlike in southern California.

Agree that Minnesota won't leave, but you couldn't be more wrong about us not caring about football and I just gave you the facts, numbers, and evidence I needed to support that.

 

[texans420]

The only point I will disagree with was the Raiders left Oakland after the 83 season not after the 89 earthquake. LA was meant to be a permanent move the first time around for the Raiders. Hell, it came straight from Al Davis's mouth. Al Davis himself stated that he went back to Oakland because LA would not give him a new stadium and went back in 95. Blatant homerism, hell your post wasn't blatant homerism. You missed a couple of facts to there Mr. Perfect. Why don't you look back at footage of the Raiders when they played in the Coliseum and were toiled in mediocrity when no one wasted their time showing up for a game. LA supports winners, period. Your USC argument proves my point. You go to USC games because they're good and they WIN. Who the hell was just jumping up and down going to USC games when they stunk. NOBODY!!!! LA is thin skinned fans that can support a team through the good times but damn sure know how to hide when times get tough.

By the way, I'm from Houston. Why would I give a flying fuck about San Antonio to begin with. It was just my opinion, now kiss my fuckin ass. A little tough to beat the Coliseum's attendance records when the Alamodome isn't as big as the Coliseum, dipshit. Passion sells tickets not because you're a big city, period. That goes for any sports team regardless of location.

 

[justinsayne]

The Minnesota Vikings are ripe for a change. I think with the possibility of a lockout we could/will see th Vikings move cities.

Yeah, umm no Ziggy Wilf, the owner of the team, has publicly said on more than one occasion that he has no desire to move the team

They have no stadium.

They're getting a new stadium, it's going to happen, right now they just need to figure out how much of said stadium is going to be paid for by tax payers, & how much is Wilf willing to shell out, he has already made an offer to shell out almost half the cost I beleive, the biggest road block they seem to be running into is whether or not it should have a retractable roof or not, Wilf wants one, the tax payers don't, the retractable roof would cost an extra $200,000-300,000

They have a shaky fan base.

no the y don't, trust me as someone who lives in Viking country, they most certainly DO NOT have a shaky fan base, they have fans coming in from South Dakota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Iowa, and obviously Minnesota to see games, they have a huge fanbase in all those states

They have Brett Favre,

Funny I don't recall them giving him a new contract, or him even hinting at another comeback..., I do recall however that numerous people within' the organization including the head coach saying they have absolutely no desire to bring him back for another year, and can't think of a single situation where that would be a good idea

they have a college football stadium that doesn't allow the consumption of alchol.

That is nothing more than a temporary location until they get their own stadium again...

They have no box seats.

What average fan buys a fucking box seat?

They will have a lot of shoveling to do come December.

I love how this is a big deal for Minnesota, yet GB gets hit with the same shit and no one ever seems to think twice about it at all, it's not nearly as big of deal as people seem to want to make it out to be, much less a reason to move an entire franchise to another city

They have had an awful season.

Every fucking franchise in the history of the NFL has had bad season, Min. has had a shit load of good seasons as well, and still have a lot of good young talent, they could be back in the think of things in as little as a year or two easily

All the above are reasons as to why a switch of cities would be by far a better choice right now.

None of those are good enough reasons, and most of what you said is blatantly wrong

I think to get rid of its problems a city change may not be the worst thing. Or they could have a general change of of name and totally rebuild themselves.

So let me get this straight, they had one bad season, and you want them to totally give up, throw in the towel, uproot and entire franchise and move them to a city that has failed to support and NFL franchise on 2 or 3 different occasions?


As for a new city I would say Las Angeles.

Los Angeles, at least spell it right...

Why? Because it has a perfectly good stadium for them to use, an amazing fanbase, and high markability.

Really? the Raiders, adn Rams would disagree with you...

I think if Vikings want to change then a move would be a good choice and Las Angeles is the best choice.

I think you have no clue what you're talking about and did little to know research before making this thread, Vikings arn't moving, they're getting a new stadium in Min. where they have a perfectly good fanbase, and Brett Favre has literally nothing to do with this at fucking all

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I'd say there's about a 25% chance of them moving. Los Angeles supposedly wants two NFL teams and there are exactly two teams more likely than the Vikings to depart for LA:

1) San Diego Chargers: The owner's in the twilight of his life and, given that it's only a little more than 100 miles north and it presents a much lucrative opportunities, Los Angeles is a likely destination for the Bolts.

2) Jacksonville Jaguars: Is there any other team in American professional sports that gets blacked out more than this franchise? Yeah, I know, there's an extremely loyal fan of the Jaguars on this here forum but that doesn't change the fact that they're a just too damn few of them in the Jacksonville area. This team, in my opinion, is the most likely to head for the West Coast.

 

[The Bearded One]

2) Jacksonville Jaguars: Is there any other team in American professional sports that gets blacked out more than this franchise? Yeah, I know, there's an extremely loyal fan of the Jaguars on this here forum but that doesn't change the fact that they're a just too damn few of them in the Jacksonville area. This team, in my opinion, is the most likely to head for the West Coast.

No no no no no no no. Basically everything you said in this post was wrong. The Jags didn't have a single blackout last year. Not one. They even had the largest increase in amount of fans in attendance. At week 12, which is the latest report I can find, the Jags had a 36.5 percent increase in attendance. The Jags also had 93.8 percent of the stadium full on average for all the home games. While that may not be great, it is better than nine other teams, including teams with rabid fanbases such as Cleveland and Kansas City. Even during the awful 2009 season, the Jags still outdrew the Raiders, who have been at or near the bottom of the league in attendance numbers and percentage for a few years now. The Raiders were last in attendance and percentage of stadium filled in 2010 as well, and the Raiders were in playoff contention for most of the year. If attendance is what we're going by, then the Raiders should be the one's to move.

I'm sick of people just throwing out Jacksonville as the team to move because they heard it on ESPN. Do some research before you post.

EDIT: I just realized this was my 400th post. I'm glad it was about the Jags.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

The only point I will disagree with was the Raiders left Oakland after the 83 season not after the 89 earthquake. LA was meant to be a permanent move the first time around for the Raiders. Hell, it came straight from Al Davis's mouth. Al Davis himself stated that he went back to Oakland because LA would not give him a new stadium and went back in 95.

My bad, I'll pony up to missing something on my original argument. I don't care about the Raiders, never have, never will. Didn't both looking them up. Should have done that.

Blatant homerism, hell your post wasn't blatant homerism.

No, my post was attacking your absolutely absurd comments that we don't support our teams. Defending an attack ON your regional sports teams isn't being a homer. It's saying you're absolutely wrong; people do.

You missed a couple of facts to there Mr. Perfect. Why don't you look back at footage of the Raiders when they played in the Coliseum and were toiled in mediocrity when no one wasted their time showing up for a game. LA supports winners, period.

You want me to go back and look at footage of a time when Los Angeles had the Rams, the Raiders, the Bruins, the Trojans, the Dodgers, the Kings, the Clippers, and the Lakers and find empty seats? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

Yes, in the Raiders final year with Los Angeles their attendance was a meager 41,000. That being said, there were so many damn teams in Los Angeles that the market was saturated. When you have a saturated market, people are going to pick the games and teams that mean something when purchasing tickets.

The Islanders, Mets, Rangers, and Knicks have all seen attendance drops because they've performed poorly over the years. New York is also a saturated market. Does that mean that New York doesn't deserve the Nets moving to Brooklyn?

It's the simple law of supply and demand. I'm sorry this concept escapes you.

Your USC argument proves my point. You go to USC games because they're good and they WIN. Who the hell was just jumping up and down going to USC games when they stunk. NOBODY!!!! LA is thin skinned fans that can support a team through the good times but damn sure know how to hide when times get tough.

To quote my good friend Jewel; "in case you failed to notice, in case you failed to see..." I also pointed out that UCLA, even under Neuheisel, is in the top 25 in the NATION for attendance.

UCLA went 7-6 in 2009 and still had the nation's 25th highest attendance turnout. That means out of 120 teams, a team that was 6-6 before their bowl game, had a higher turnout than all but 24. So much for not supporting a loser.

Cal, who was ranked 30th in attendance in 2009, went 8-5. By no means a "winner," but by no means a "loser." Where was SMU, Baylor, Texas Tech, U of Houston, and UTEP on this list? I thought Texas crushed the U.S. in football support?

You did say Texas, too. Don't try and back out now saying you only meant Houston.

By the way, I'm from Houston. Why would I give a flying fuck about San Antonio to begin with. It was just my opinion, now kiss my fuckin ass. A little tough to beat the Coliseum's attendance records when the Alamodome isn't as big as the Coliseum, dipshit. Passion sells tickets not because you're a big city, period. That goes for any sports team regardless of location.

You brought how much TEXAS loves their football. This was your quote:

The only difference is that people in San Antonio actually would care about a club being there because TEXAS IS FOOTBALL COUNTRY

I realize the Coliseum is bigger than the Alamo dome, but I also provided you comparative statistics (you know what those are, right?) illustrating that the Coliseum *COMPARATIVELY* sees the same amount of attendance as the Alamodome.

Let me break this down for you so you can understand it better. Yes, the Coliseum is bigger than the Alamodome. It seats 93,607. However, we averaged 84,799. That means, at all points during the season 91% of the stadium was filled with fans coming to games.

Also, Los Angeles is the BIGGEST market that the NFL doesn't have right now. The revenue the NFL would gain from having the LA market is absurd. You really should look at this from a business standpoint.

 

[Owensplat]

seeing how the bills play half there season in Toronto, whats the outside chance of a team relocating there permanently just to see how the NFL does in canada...

 

[Theo Mays]

The Vikings will NOT move. Zygi Wilf, our owner has stated countless times that he has no desire or any interest moving the teams. The Minnesota people love their team and I can't see the city letting them go. Honestly I believe the roof caving in on the Metrodome as a good sign. This sort of forces the hand of the city to give the approval of a new stadium. The roof will be ready come August (if I remember correctly) so that gives it the right time frame for the season and honestly the Gophers stadium would be an alright fix for a year or two. Zygi is imminent on making this team a contender and he is too loyal to the people of Minnesota to just up and move the team. I say there is probably a five percent chance at most that the Vikes move.

 

[texans420]

I'm not backing out of shit. I stand by what I say and you can kiss my hairy white Texas ASS. Go ahead and argue till you're blue in the face until proven otherwise to me LA still has zero teams and we have one. Even as bad as the Texans are, we still renew our season tickets, we still show up regardless of how bad the team is. Obviously, LA city council didn't think the NFL was high on their list of priorities along with the two competing LA groups for a team the last time around, otherwise the Texans would be there and not here nine years ago and this arguement wouldn't be taking place. Don't even think for a second you're going to bring the Oilers into the discussion because the reason no one showed up the final season because the deal was done to move to Nashville before the 96 season started. Go back and entertain me in the MMA threads, tool.

For the record, I would like to thank the starter of this thread for being stupid enough to question the loyalty of Vikings fans to begin with. Bad take and reasons for it.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

I'm not backing out of shit. I stand by what I say and you can kiss my hairy white Texas ASS. Go ahead and argue till you're blue in the face until proven otherwise to me LA still has zero teams and we have one. Even as bad as the Texans are, we still renew our season tickets, we still show up regardless of how bad the team is. Obviously, LA city council didn't think the NFL was high on their list of priorities along with the two competing LA groups for a team the last time around, otherwise the Texans would be there and not here nine years ago and this arguement wouldn't be taking place. Don't even think for a second you're going to bring the Oilers into the discussion because the reason no one showed up the final season because the deal was done to move to Nashville before the 96 season started. Go back and entertain me in the MMA threads, tool.

For the record, I would like to thank the starter of this thread for being stupid enough to question the loyalty of Vikings fans to begin with. Bad take and reasons for it.

Who cares if you do have a team? That's not not the argument. You're clearly too ignorant to understand the argument. Don't even question my MMA knowledge, for the record, because I've forgotten more than you'll ever know.

Nobody is disputing the fact that Texas has two teams. Nobody is disputing the fact that Texas loves football, you're making ignorant statements about California fans not supporting their teams when I've clearly shown you that, not only are you wrong, you're incredibly wrong.

Here's the simple fact of the matter, the cost of living in Los Angeles is 50% higher than the national average. Housing in Los Angeles is 157% higher than the national average. The cost of living in Houston is 10% LOWER than the national average. Housing costs in Houston are 22% lower than the national average.

http://www.payscale.com/cost-of-living-calculator/Texas-Houston

http://www.payscale.com/cost-of-living-calculator/California-Los-Angeles

Simply put, people here don't have the money to spend on a fledgling franchise. We're not "fair-weather." You have THREE fucking sports teams. You barely support your shitty Astros. You were 16th in the league in overall attendance last year for the Astros.

Dodgers and Angels? 3rd and 5th.

Los Angeles Kings of the NHL? 14th in the league in attendance.

Dallas Stars? 23rd in the league.

How about the Lakers, Warriors, and Clippers attendance? 8th, 10th, and 14th

The Rockets and Spurs? 20th and 12th.


In every single category LA and California teams have smoked your shitty city's support level. I guess, in your hastiness to say that California fans were fair-weather, you forgot to include your own pathetic fair-weather fairs.

Guess what, even the LA fucking Galaxy smoked the Houston Dynamo in attendance. By TEN THOUSAND. The LA Galaxy set an MLS record for attendance.

We averaged 26,009. Houston Dynamo? 16,939.

Congratulations, dude. I just made you look like a complete tool. I gave you indisputable numbers, facts, and proof that Los Angeles, in EVERY way, supports our teams. In fact, we show more support than Houston, in EVERY WAY.

Before you start spouting off ignorant and unfounded statements, I suggest you check your attendance facts and records. They're available on ESPN, you know? By year...

Oh, FYI, the year the Astros went to the World Series, you were still 10th in the league in attendance. Dodgers and Angels? 2nd and 4th.

I certainly never said the Vikings were moving, let alone to Los Angeles. I actually said I don't think the Vikings will move to LA. If it's going to be any team, it will be the Jaguars. They have the highest blackout rate of any NFL team in the league. They're the most likely to up and move because fans aren't showing.

 

[The Bearded One]

If it's going to be any team, it will be the Jaguars. They have the highest blackout rate of any NFL team in the league. They're the most likely to up and move because fans aren't showing.

Did you fail to read my previous post? The Jags had ZERO blackouts last season. ZERO! So will you please tell me how they had the highest blackout rate of any team in the NFL? Meanwhile, the Bucs and Raiders struggled to fill their stadiums all season. They both averaged fewer than 50,000 fans for their home games. I know you're going to go back to 2009 for proof that the fans don't support the Jags, but they still averaged more fans in attendance that season than the Raiders. The Raiders and Bucs both had numerous blackouts throughout the 2010 season, I can't find the exact number but it was a majority of their games if I remember correctly. The Raiders and Bucs both had Week 16 games blacked out when their teams made it to the Super Bowl. Why is it we never heard talk of either of those teams moving to LA?

Jags fans showed up last season and had the highest increase of fans in attandance, with a roughly 35 percent increase. To say that the Jags are moving to LA is uninformed and just plain stupid to be honest.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Did you fail to read my previous post? The Jags had ZERO blackouts last season. ZERO! So will you please tell me how they had the highest blackout rate of any team in the NFL? Meanwhile, the Bucs and Raiders struggled to fill their stadiums all season. They both averaged fewer than 50,000 fans for their home games. I know you're going to go back to 2009 for proof that the fans don't support the Jags, but they still averaged more fans in attendance that season than the Raiders. The Raiders and Bucs both had numerous blackouts throughout the 2010 season, I can't find the exact number but it was a majority of their games if I remember correctly. The Raiders and Bucs both had Week 16 games blacked out when their teams made it to the Super Bowl. Why is it we never heard talk of either of those teams moving to LA?

Jags fans showed up last season and had the highest increase of fans in attandance, with a roughly 35 percent increase. To say that the Jags are moving to LA is uninformed and just plain stupid to be honest.

Before you get your panties in a wad, these aren't teams *I* WANT. I don't think Los Angeles needs an NFL team. I couldn't care who or what it is. I won't root for an NFL team from LA anyhow. I already have a team.

It's not ignorant and it's not uninformed. It's the name of a team that has been thrown around. Several teams have been mentioned numerous times; Saints (stupid and shouldn't happen), Vikings (stupid and shouldn't happen), Jaguars (I doubt they'd do any better here), Raiders(been there, done that), 49'ers (this may have happened, but I believe they finally may get the stadium they want), and Bills (Toronto seems like a more likely candidate IF they move, but it's not gonna happen).

If anything LA should get an expansion team. There's not a need for one of those right now, but I cannot justify a move for any team.

The Raiders experiment was tried and failed. Oakland needs to just keep the Raiders until Al Davis passes along. He's not doing anything for that team anyhow other than destroying it.

Tampa Bay is a possibility because of the surrounding community, but their fan base has been pretty loyal over the years. Lord knows the Rays aren't getting any support from the local fan base.

To your point about the Raiders and Bucs week 16 games being blacked out the year that they went to the Super Bowl, did it ever occur to you that fans didn't show up to that game because they'd purchased playoff tickets instead? There's an alternate hypothesis for that.

 

[texans420]

Glad to see your facts are basically on last years numbers except for the Astros who have always had shitty attendance. Let's get back to logistics here. I know you won't forget all this with the you said blah-blah this, and blah-blah that crap but let's put everything we've said so far on the back burner. Cutting through all of the BS each of us have laid out, the basic premise of the argument is PROFESSIONAL football in the city of LA. Repeat that word, I know it's hard for you after all this, PROFESSIONAL football. We can piss and moan and go back and forth about other sports all we want. All I will say on a closing note, like Chris Benoit said "PROVE ME WRONG" when it comes to a pro football team in that town. Maybe if there's sustained sucess after 20 or 30 years maybe I might just sing a different tune after all. Just let me know you're one of the first ones to buy PSL's and season tickets so they get off on the right foot. The city to me has had three chances regardless of the circumstances of how they left. If you ask me the Chargers would go back to LA before anybody else for a difference of 75 miles. The NFL has done just fine without LA. If the NFL was so damn worried about getting a team there, a team would have been there at some point in the last 15 years. Stick to college football because no major city has two BCS (that's right 2)BCS schools in their city unlike Houston or Dallas (who combine for 4 non-BCS schools) for that matter. I CAN be like that piece of shit TheGame over in the MMA/boxing section. So just sit there and spend all of your days doing all of your research (because some have to go to work and don't have time) and go to hell, all the while gimme your masterful insight on UFC coming up this weekend in Toronto(because I have to go to work and don't have time to do my own research, resident expert). Go ahead, tell me how your best friends with Lyoto Machida and you're gonna send him to kick my ass if you don't feel like coming to Houston to do the job yourself because I'm such a fucking tool and you just can't stand fucking little tools like me. Our paths will cross again and mark my words, California scum, I can be your worst nightmare regardless of what you call me, say to me, or do to me because I'll be waitin' with open arms sweetheart regardless of who's right and who's wrong. Even if I AM WRONG (OOOPPPSSSS.... proven wrong. Don't want to misquote you after all because I know how much you hate that), I'll be damned if I'm going to let you run over me in a stupid wrestling forum of all places, Holier-than-thou jackass. Because you're from California and everyone east of the pollution and politics are just like me. STUPID FUCKING TOOLS THAT CAN'T GET THEIR SHIT STRAIGHT AT ANY TIME ON ANY SUBJECT. After all, not everyone (not even me) can be a fuckin' expert like you, right.


I'm begging for a response because I've got a good idea of what you're going to say, but I need a good laugh so do your side of being the tool and call me a piece of shit and blithering idiot some more. Oh wait, BECAUSE I AM (making sure I don't take your words out of context because I know you don't like that either) according, so far, to a party of one. I'm shit on the bottom of your shoe and always wrong because there's not enough time in the day for me to get around to checking my facts 24/7/365. Go ahead, I'm waiting.

Division rivalry says I just hate the Jags, just because. Go Texans.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

No team is going to play in those toilets unless they get a guarantee that a new stadium is on the way upon moving there.

The fans are another issue. LA is as bad as any city in the southern half of the US, meaning they are loaded with fair-weather fans. If it doesn't say Lakers on the marquee, no one in that city really gives a shit about any other sport. Surely, you've seen sporting events from LA on your TV, right. No one are in those seats even when the teams are good, just look at the Ducks for starters. Hell, they even had empty seats for playoff games until they made a deep run towards the cup just a few years ago. Face it, no one will show up for a loser because there is more to do on a sunny winter day in the southern half of the states than watch a garbage football team.

This is what you're missing, dude. YOU said this. NOBODY else. But I've provided you proof that you're wrong. So now you resort to flame wars and try to back off your ORIGINAL argument.

Congratulations, dude, you have a job. Guess what? I'm a graduate student working on my second Master's Degree, been accepted to a Ph.D. program, and have a job yet I still find time to check the majority of my facts before I open up "mouth."

You act like people with jobs are incapable of fact checking before they make unfounded statements.

You're hardly going to be my worst nightmare because you're headed to the ignore list anyhow. You cannot type, you cannot logically structure a thought, you make asinine statements, and MOST importantly, you have no idea what you're talking about.

Some of us are fortunate enough to have the privilege to cover sports for a paycheck. The reason is that we actually check our sources, pay attention to most details, and accurately report knowledge instead of making statements that have no foundation in reality.

Had you read any of my posts? I've said Los Angeles doesn't NEED an NFL team. We already have three in the state and four schools that have storied programs in college football.

But yes, let's put everything WE'VE (and by this I mean YOU) on the backburner.

Face it, dude. You made an ignorant statement about the fans of Los Angles failing to support *ANY* sport when, in reality, we show more support for our teams than your entire state, on the whole.

I don't need to "run you stupid," you've done a fine job of that yourself by making ignorant statements and then trying to back off them once you've been proven wrong.

EDIT: I wouldn't bother replying to this because nothing you type from here on out can be seen by me. Have a good day.

 

[The Bearded One]

Before you get your panties in a wad, these aren't teams *I* WANT. I don't think Los Angeles needs an NFL team. I couldn't care who or what it is. I won't root for an NFL team from LA anyhow. I already have a team.

It's not ignorant and it's not uninformed. It's the name of a team that has been thrown around. Several teams have been mentioned numerous times; Saints (stupid and shouldn't happen), Vikings (stupid and shouldn't happen), Jaguars (I doubt they'd do any better here), Raiders(been there, done that), 49'ers (this may have happened, but I believe they finally may get the stadium they want), and Bills (Toronto seems like a more likely candidate IF they move, but it's not gonna happen).

If anything LA should get an expansion team. There's not a need for one of those right now, but I cannot justify a move for any team.

The Raiders experiment was tried and failed. Oakland needs to just keep the Raiders until Al Davis passes along. He's not doing anything for that team anyhow other than destroying it.

Tampa Bay is a possibility because of the surrounding community, but their fan base has been pretty loyal over the years. Lord knows the Rays aren't getting any support from the local fan base.

To your point about the Raiders and Bucs week 16 games being blacked out the year that they went to the Super Bowl, did it ever occur to you that fans didn't show up to that game because they'd purchased playoff tickets instead? There's an alternate hypothesis for that.

Wow, major typo on my part that I didn't catch, even with re-reading my post several times. The Week 16 I mentioned was supposed to be about last season when both teams could have made the playoffs and were in serious contention going into the final weeks of the season. I was trying to point out that during the 2010 season when both teams were in contention for the playoff, not the Super Bowl, that their fans still did not show up. Sorry about the confusion there.

And it is ignorant and uninformed because the people reporting the story that the Jags are moving are ignorant and uninformed. I have yet to see a report that is based on facts from the 2010 season stating why the Jags are moving to LA. You know why? Because there hasn't been one. Jags fans showed up last season after an embarrassing 2009. Even in that 2009 season, the Jags still had better attendance than the Raiders. So I honestly don't understand where any report can accurately say the Jags are moving to LA.

You also forgot to tell me how zero blackouts is the highest blackout rate in the league.

But we agree that if LA does get another team, that it should be an exapnsion team.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

Wow, major typo on my part that I didn't catch, even with re-reading my post several times. The Week 16 I mentioned was supposed to be about last season when both teams could have made the playoffs and were in serious contention going into the final weeks of the season. I was trying to point out that during the 2010 season when both teams were in contention for the playoff, not the Super Bowl, that their fans still did not show up. Sorry about the confusion there.

And it is ignorant and uninformed because the people reporting the story that the Jags are moving are ignorant and uninformed. I have yet to see a report that is based on facts from the 2010 season stating why the Jags are moving to LA. You know why? Because there hasn't been one. Jags fans showed up last season after an embarrassing 2009. Even in that 2009 season, the Jags still had better attendance than the Raiders. So I honestly don't understand where any report can accurately say the Jags are moving to LA.

You also forgot to tell me how zero blackouts is the highest blackout rate in the league.

But we agree that if LA does get another team, that it should be an exapnsion team.

You have to remember, dude. I live here. So, I've been hearing about possibilities for as far back as I can remember. I couldn't possibly pinpoint the time that the Jaguars have been mentioned, but they have been mentioned.

Let me touch on the Raiders for a second and I'll come back to your post.

Al Davis is a piece of shit. He's run that fucking team in the ground. I swear to god I know fans who will, LITERALLY, throw a party when that man dies. Heyward-Bey over fucking Crabtree? Are you kidding me? JaMarcus? goodness.

Davis has alienated his fans. He's had a bigger coaching carousel in Oakland this past decade than just about any team I can think of. Fans no longer care about the Raiders because Al Davis has stopped caring about his fans.

As crazy as those fuckers are, Raiders fans are some of the most die-hard fans you will ever meet. You can bet your fucking ass they watch those games. Believe me, I know. I used to go out drinking on Sundays and I actually have videos of Raiders fans doing some of the craziest and funniest shit you've ever seen at a bar.

They just refuse to give Davis their money because he's stopped caring about their success. Davis does what Davis wants. Plain and simple. Nobody around Davis can convince him to do anything else.

Coming back to your post, I am simply telling you the names that have been tossed around. There was a lot of hype about the Jaguars because they had a down season.

I said *IF* a team moved. I don't actually believe a team is going to move. Most people don't. Matter of factly, LA is strongly opposing the building of Farmer's Field. We don't need another fucking stadium Downtown. I mean, holy shit, how many venues do they plan to cram in Los Angeles?

The blackout rates were based off of 2009. You have to remember something, dude, the games YOU see and the games *I* see are massively different due to the coasts. Raiders are shown here in my part of California NO MATTER WHAT. The local affiliate will play their games.

Blackouts are only subject to a national audience. I think Jacksonville is fine right where they are at. These are not my words and nobody is saying that the report had any major steam to it, I'm simply saying that the Jaguars were mentioned as a "strong possibility."

Think about it like this, remember when people said the Saints were moving? Yeah, my ass. New Orleans would have killed someone.

Me telling you what I've heard isn't ignorant an uninformed. It's informed, it just probably won't happen and shouldn't happen. Sports is rumors, dude. You have to sift through them.

My *IF* was a BIG if. The fans in Los Angeles that want a team have been steamrolling rumors to gain publicity for a team and to draw a team's attention since this entire process began. Me simply telling you what's being said doesn't mean I agree with it, nor does it mean I think it should happen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. California, most importantly, Los Angeles, does NOT need another NFL team. Period, point blank.

EDIT: A thought I had about moving a team. If you're gong to move a team TO Los Angeles, it needs to be a team with a MASSIVE fan base (Again, this is outside of California teams). Los Angles is pretty much decided on their teams. You'd need to move a team the caliber of the Jets, Giants, Patriots, Steelers, etc... No offense to you, Jacksonville, or it's fan base (and I sincerely mean this), but the Jaguars do not fit that bill. I think I know two Jaguars fans in the entire state. I cannot imagine that the Jaguars would have any success here in Los Angeles. They ought to stay in Jacksonville where they are supported and loved.

 

[The Bearded One]

You have to remember, dude. I live here. So, I've been hearing about possibilities for as far back as I can remember. I couldn't possibly pinpoint the time that the Jaguars have been mentioned, but they have been mentioned.

Let me touch on the Raiders for a second and I'll come back to your post.

Al Davis is a piece of shit. He's run that fucking team in the ground. I swear to god I know fans who will, LITERALLY, throw a party when that man dies. Heyward-Bey over fucking Crabtree? Are you kidding me? JaMarcus? goodness.

You seriously want Crabtree? He's been mediocre at best. There are a number of players taken in the first round that would have helped the Raiders more than Crabtree. But Al Davis has turned into a senile old man that has no reason to keep running a once great franchise.

Davis has alienated his fans. He's had a bigger coaching carousel in Oakland this past decade than just about any team I can think of. Fans no longer care about the Raiders because Al Davis has stopped caring about his fans.

As crazy as those fuckers are, Raiders fans are some of the most die-hard fans you will ever meet. You can bet your fucking ass they watch those games. Believe me, I know. I used to go out drinking on Sundays and I actually have videos of Raiders fans doing some of the craziest and funniest shit you've ever seen at a bar.

They just refuse to give Davis their money because he's stopped caring about their success. Davis does what Davis wants. Plain and simple. Nobody around Davis can convince him to do anything else.

That's actually pretty shocking to hear. There really is nothing that I can think that the Jags would do to make me not want to happily pay money for season tickets every year. Hell, they still have Del Rio as coach and Garrard at QB and I'm still going to be there. Things must be pretty bad if they're refusing to go, but I honestly don't see how "diehards" can not go to games regardless.

Coming back to your post, I am simply telling you the names that have been tossed around. There was a lot of hype about the Jaguars because they had a down season.

I said *IF* a team moved. I don't actually believe a team is going to move. Most people don't. Matter of factly, LA is strongly opposing the building of Farmer's Field. We don't need another fucking stadium Downtown. I mean, holy shit, how many venues do they plan to cram in Los Angeles?

I don't think any teams are moving either. But it just gets really annoying really fast when people keep throwing the Jags out there as a possible candidate when it just isn't true.

The blackout rates were based off of 2009.

All I needed to read. Other teams have had the same blackout troubles in the 2010 as the Jags did during the 2009 season, if not worse. In fact, the Raiders have been worse both years, but nobody is talking about their relocation. I'm not saying they're going to relocate. What I'm saying is if the Jags are being brought up during discussions based off of numbers from two seasons ago, then why aren't other teams? It just seems like Jacksonville is the easy team to pick on, regardless if the facts back it up or not. And the facts from the 2010 do not.

You have to remember something, dude, the games YOU see and the games *I* see are massively different due to the coasts. Raiders are shown here in my part of California NO MATTER WHAT. The local affiliate will play their games.

Blackouts are only subject to a national audience.

This is completely wrong. Blackouts mean that the games can not be shown on local television. So if the Raiders games are blacked out, they can not be shown on the local affiliate. The game is blacked out on stations within a 75 mile radius, so unless you travel the 75 miles, home games that are blacked out are not shown on television. So you must not live within the 75 mile radius, so you must not have had an experience with this.

Blackouts are subject to the local audience. If a Jags home game against the Packers is blacked out, the only people who can't see the game on television are the people in Jacksonville and those living within a 75 radius of the city. People anywhere else can see the games.

I think Jacksonville is fine right where they are at. These are not my words and nobody is saying that the report had any major steam to it, I'm simply saying that the Jaguars were mentioned as a "strong possibility."

Think about it like this, remember when people said the Saints were moving? Yeah, my ass. New Orleans would have killed someone.

Me telling you what I've heard isn't ignorant an uninformed. It's informed, it just probably won't happen and shouldn't happen. Sports is rumors, dude. You have to sift through them.

If the report doesn't have any steam to it, then why is it reported? What I meant is that the reports are ignorant and uninformed. They are going off numbers from a few years ago without acknowledging the strides the Jags and the city of Jacksonville made during the 2010 season.

My *IF* was a BIG if. The fans in Los Angeles that want a team have been steamrolling rumors to gain publicity for a team and to draw a team's attention since this entire process began. Me simply telling you what's being said doesn't mean I agree with it, nor does it mean I think it should happen.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. California, most importantly, Los Angeles, does NOT need another NFL team. Period, point blank.

We agree that LA does not need another team. Since you are from the area, I have a question. Why do you think all the other teams were unable to succeed in LA? Just curious to hear the opinion from someone in the area.

EDIT: A thought I had about moving a team. If you're gong to move a team TO Los Angeles, it needs to be a team with a MASSIVE fan base (Again, this is outside of California teams). Los Angles is pretty much decided on their teams. You'd need to move a team the caliber of the Jets, Giants, Patriots, Steelers, etc... No offense to you, Jacksonville, or it's fan base (and I sincerely mean this), but the Jaguars do not fit that bill. I think I know two Jaguars fans in the entire state. I cannot imagine that the Jaguars would have any success here in Los Angeles. They ought to stay in Jacksonville where they are supported and loved.

No offense taken at all. We've been the least popular team in the NFL for years now and I have no problem with it. The support this team has gotten over the past year-and-a-half has been amazing. I wish it was like this all along, but there are some reasons I think for why that hasn't happened. But we are seeing a new generation of Jags fans, such as myself, who have grown up loving the team and never had another team to cheer for. Things are looking bright for the future. Other than the fact that JDR is still out head coach and David Garrard is still the QB, but I can everything can't be perfect.

I hope there are no typos in that. I really don't feel like rereading it.

 

[ITurnGirlsGay]

You seriously want Crabtree? He's been mediocre at best. There are a number of players taken in the first round that would have helped the Raiders more than Crabtree. But Al Davis has turned into a senile old man that has no reason to keep running a once great franchise.

First and foremost, I am not a Raiders fan, haha. *I* did not want Crabtree, but it was well known that Davis was going to *take* a receiver. It didn't matter what their needs were. Davis loves speed and size. That's why he chose Heyward-Bey over Crabtree. Because he ran a faster 40. Davis would pick Usain Bolt if he ever declared...

That's actually pretty shocking to hear. There really is nothing that I can think that the Jags would do to make me not want to happily pay money for season tickets every year. Hell, they still have Del Rio as coach and Garrard at QB and I'm still going to be there. Things must be pretty bad if they're refusing to go, but I honestly don't see how "diehards" can not go to games regardless.

They feel disenfranchised. They've stood by the team for years and Davis refuses to get better. He actually has gotten worse. He won't stick with a coach long enough to allow things to turn around. They're as diehard as diehard can be, but there's nothing they can do. It's like an abused woman going back to her man over and over again expecting different results.

I don't think any teams are moving either. But it just gets really annoying really fast when people keep throwing the Jags out there as a possible candidate when it just isn't true.

I can understand and respect that.

All I needed to read. Other teams have had the same blackout troubles in the 2010 as the Jags did during the 2009 season, if not worse. In fact, the Raiders have been worse both years, but nobody is talking about their relocation. I'm not saying they're going to relocate. What I'm saying is if the Jags are being brought up during discussions based off of numbers from two seasons ago, then why aren't other teams? It just seems like Jacksonville is the easy team to pick on, regardless if the facts back it up or not. And the facts from the 2010 do not.

The Raiders have indeed been worse, but most people are of the opinion that the "Los Angeles" Raiders will never happen again. People are bound to bring up any sports teams having a horrible attendance problem over the past little while.

This is completely wrong. Blackouts mean that the games can not be shown on local television. So if the Raiders games are blacked out, they can not be shown on the local affiliate. The game is blacked out on stations within a 75 mile radius, so unless you travel the 75 miles, home games that are blacked out are not shown on television. So you must not live within the 75 mile radius, so you must not have had an experience with this.

I thought it was the other way around. In that case, I WISH I lived within 75 miles so I DIDN'T have to see Raider games.

Blackouts are subject to the local audience. If a Jags home game against the Packers is blacked out, the only people who can't see the game on television are the people in Jacksonville and those living within a 75 radius of the city. People anywhere else can see the games.

Well that sucks....

If the report doesn't have any steam to it, then why is it reported? What I meant is that the reports are ignorant and uninformed. They are going off numbers from a few years ago without acknowledging the strides the Jags and the city of Jacksonville made during the 2010 season.

"Will Brett Favre return?" That's all I'm going to say about "reports without steam"

We agree that LA does not need another team. Since you are from the area, I have a question. Why do you think all the other teams were unable to succeed in LA? Just curious to hear the opinion from someone in the area.

Easy, neither the Rams nor the Raiders showed any interest in being in Los Angles at the time and there were teams that were trying to improve. If you look at the Los Angeles teams during the 90's there's no comparison as to who you would spend your hard earned money on.

Dodgers had Orel Hersheiser, Kirk Gibson, Fernando Valenzuela, was winning World Titles, etc..

Kings had McSorely, Gretzky, Hrudy, etc..

The Lakers in the 80's-90's? Enough said.

The Rams and Raiders just sort of went through the motions. It was like they didn't care if they won or lost. When you have that many teams jammed within 10 miles of one another, you have to pick and choose where you're going to spend your money. Just because games are on different days doesn't mean that you have the money to afford them all. Money only spreads so far.



[/QUOTE]No offense taken at all. We've been the least popular team in the NFL for years now and I have no problem with it. The support this team has gotten over the past year-and-a-half has been amazing. I wish it was like this all along, but there are some reasons I think for why that hasn't happened. But we are seeing a new generation of Jags fans, such as myself, who have grown up loving the team and never had another team to cheer for. Things are looking bright for the future. Other than the fact that JDR is still out head coach and David Garrard is still the QB, but I can everything can't be perfect.

I hope there are no typos in that. I really don't feel like rereading it.[/QUOTE]

Well that's good. I was hoping you'd take it the way I meant it.