Cena Heel Turn Dumb, Yet You Insist.

[lunarseed]

We are too used to WWE disappointing us. I believe Vince has surrendered much more creative control to HHH (Who will take ideas from the guys and hone the idea) and Steph (whom Vince is more likely to trust due to his own bloodline and mortality).

We are used to the cheap, Russo thrill of the face who would never turn, actuallly turning. There are a ton of threads, let alone posts speculating upon the seemingly inevitable turn of John Cena.

Maybe we should start realizing the WWE has FINALLY, TRULY swerved us, the Internet Wrestling Community.

Maybe we need to acknowledge that John Cena works well in the company as a face and sells a hell of a lot of merch.

Maybe we need to realize that Mike Mizanin has modeled his rise to the top after John Cena’s tireless positive representation of WWE as a corporation, plus a seemingly deeper appreciation of the story being told between the bells, and a better understanding of the importance of the innovation of certain maneuvers in the ring which brand “The Miz” (and the diminished reliance upon on the storyline dictated to him stemming from it).

Maybe we as the Internet Wrestling Community should admit that as we were craving the Russo-style turn of the babyface, WWE has double it's assets (Cena/Miz) rather than splitting one (Splitting Cena fans after his turn) by rewarding a hard worker who has the potential to be as "heel-over" or better as John Cena is "face-over".

 

[Tech N9ne]

We are too used to WWE disappointing us. I believe Vince has surrendered much more creative control to HHH (Who will take ideas from the guys and hone the idea) and Steph (whom Vince is more likely to trust due to his own bloodline and mortality).

We are used to the cheap, Russo thrill of the face who would never turn, actuallly turning. There are a ton of threads, let alone posts speculating upon the seemingly inevitable turn of John Cena.

Maybe we should start realizing the WWE has FINALLY, TRULY swerved us, the Internet Wrestling Community.

Maybe we need to acknowledge that John Cena works well in the company as a face and sells a hell of a lot of merch.

Maybe we need to realize that Mike Mizanin has modeled his rise to the top after John Cena’s tireless positive representation of WWE as a corporation, plus a seemingly deeper appreciation of the story being told between the bells, and a better understanding of the importance of the innovation of certain maneuvers in the ring which brand “The Miz” (and the diminished reliance upon on the storyline dictated to him stemming from it).

Maybe we as the Internet Wrestling Community should admit that as we were craving the Russo-style turn of the babyface, WWE has double it's assets (Cena/Miz) rather than splitting one (Splitting Cena fans after his turn) by rewarding a hard worker who has the potential to be as "heel-over" or better as John Cena is "face-over".

I really don't get why Russo is your example of "the turn of the babyface"... Sounds like random bashing actually!

Anyway, as far as what WWE wants or what you want. Or what you are trying to accomplish in this thread. My opinion is my opinion and it is mine to have.

So all I must really say on this matter is... I personally liked Cena better when he was a Heel. Do I think he should turn Heel? I really don't care either way. I don't watch wrestling for John Cena, I watch wrestling because it is wrestling.

I think he was better Heel. So if he were to turn Heel, I would probably like Cena better. I think he plays a smart ass well, and gets to do it. But more in a goofy type way.

But, I myself, understand why he remains Face and if he never EVER turns Heel, it wouldn't be that much of a surprise, simply from a business stand point. His marketability is insane.

 

[GameOver]

has nothing to do with wanting the Russo style swerves every week, if you want that go watch TNA.

Face it, just cause someone is a huge seller to kiddies and is the biggest face doesn't mean people don't want to appreciate him for what he was and that was a far better heel. as a face he's Super Lame. as a heel he was cool. No question he makes money, but he would make money as a heel too if he was allowed to be the gangsta style that he was.

Eventually the train will slow down and they'll have to change tracks. Its been slowing down for the last year, thats where all the hype of a possible heel turn came from, they were setting it up and had a golden opportunity and were most likely testing the waters to see what reaction he would get. Maybe they got scared and changed there minds.

Regardless there is still an opportunity, same with the Nexus group they had a golden setup there but they've all but squashed it.

History repeating itself, Cena's been a face for near 9yrs and top of the face list for 7 of that. Hogan was superface for 6yrs b4 his run started to wind down despite still making more money then anyone else on the roster. which led to an eventual turn 4 yrs later albeit in WCW not WWE but WWE could have easily done the same thing if he'd stuck around. See the pattern.?

The only difference is Hogan pretty much had 100% of the crowd behind him for that first 9yrs wheras Cena as a face has only had 50/50 the only thing keeping him there is the kids and the lack of face main eventers, no question. How much cena stuff do you see in the crowd anymore, bugger all, if there was more face main eventers on the roster they could turn him and stilll have people for him to work against

 

[scomvp316]

First off HHH is more respected by the office and backstage personnel than Steph is. People can take all the screaming from VKM cause he has a successful track history but from Steph she screams her lungs out towards the help and then just reples by saying "thats what me dad said so do it". HHH has a different approach and actually in Europe the shows ran much better with him as producer than some of the other fillers.

The heel turn would of meant VKM actually had a set. So Cena sells alot of merch but if you look at new merc in the last two years less than 10% of new merch are new fans of Cena. Last time I checked the two guys who are arguably the best heels of all-time sold their merc near the top was HHH and Flair. It is idiotic to think everyone in the company has to change from face to heel except one guy. Just look at the early 90's thats why WWE struggled with holding on to Hogan as a face. so VKM is basically saying to guys like Austin,Rock,and Taker that Cena is better than you and thats why he won't be changing from face to heel at least two times in his WWE career. The only two guys I can remember that couldn't be turned heel cause of their popularity in all demos are Sting and steamboat

 

[UFOcalling]

I think the main reason why a large percentage of the IWC is clamoring for a Cena heel-turn is simple: a lot of people aren't happy unless they're complaining. That statement isn't just true for wrestling (and wrestling fans), it happens everywhere.

The other big reason is because a lot of members of the IWC just like to state their opinions about what they'd like to see happen. That's another HUGE flaw of human nature: the desire to be correct. Everyone wants to be "right", everyone wants to "win" the argument (whatever that argument is), and no one wants to be proven wrong...or have an "incorrect opinion" (as if that's even possible).

Will Cena turn heel? Probably not any time soon. Like you stated in your original post, lunarseed (I shortened the quote down to the brass tacks):

John Cena works well in the company as a face

You said it best already, and it's as simple as that. Would he work well as a heel? Hell yes, he probably would. The fact of the matter is that none of us are going to change anyone's mind over at WWE creative by arguing here in these forums. So I agree with you, people need to stop insisting on the change. Cena probably won't turn heel any time soon; the WWE had a good opportunity to do so with the Nexus feud, and didn't pull the trigger. You're right on your other point, the teasing of Cena's possible heel-turn during the Cena/Nexus feud was executed quite well...and it definitely did swerve a lot of us.

The bottom line is that the IWC wouldn't exist if it weren't for the free-exchange of ideas, complaints and opinions. That's not going to change any time soon, so get ready to read a lot more complaints. Especially ones about how to make the product "better". Again, everybody else seems to know what's best...and absolutely no one wants to be wrong.

 

[Henhouse]

I argue against turning Cena heel purely because of the reaction he gets when his music hits, and also the amount of people wearing his shirt in the crowd. The guy is the Austin of the Family-Friendly wrestling scene.

 

[neildittmar]

I am also of the opinion that John Cena could do very, very well as a heel. As for the "when" question, I'd go so far as to say I'd personally like to see the heel turn at WM27, with Cena effectively ending the Undertakers streak (under dubious circumstances, of course) and unifying the WWE and World championships.

I think that sort of a move will get Cena one step closer to wrestling "immortality"... ie; the place where guys like Hogan, Austin, and Rock dwell. Perhaps a heel turn for Cena wouldn't be good from a marketing/merchandising standpoint. However, the nWo has shown us that you can effectively (and VERY profitably) market heels under the right conditions.

On the other hand, while certainly not "prayers, training, and vitamins", Cena's similar "hustle, loyalty, and respect" has helped in endearing him to fans all over the world, particularly children and families. These are the focus groups that WWE is really attempting to get over with as of late. They are the ones WWE has identified as generating the most money for the company. So for that reason, a heel turn for Cena remains extremely unlikely, at least for the immediate future.

However, when (not if) it does happen it has gotta be big. A large part of the success in a specific wrestler is the ability to reinvent him/herself as times change, a character grows stale, etc. If done right, and at the right time, the result could be Cena becoming regarded as nothing less than the biggest star in the business. If you can reinvent yourself the right way, at the right time, you can even go so far as to eclipse your original run and become an even bigger star. See Hulk Hogan circa 1996.

 

[rkoshouldvewon]

If we're speaking in Kayfabe terms, John Cena should be seen as the biggest liar and heel of them all. He didn't own up to his word during the Nexus angle (constantly attacking the group from within, not following Wade Barrett's orders, not following the fired stip). He made awful comments about a woman's weight. But WWE pushes this guy as their top baby face. I know why they do, but it's pretty idiotic.

The WWE needs to realize it's because of guys like Cena that no one has been built as a credible threat or heel in the last 5 years. The dude is booked to be unbeatable. You can put a 3 time World Heavyweight Champion like CM Punk in a match with Cena and we all know the outcome. Even Randy Orton puts over some guys (Kofi Kingston won clean numerous times). You send Cena out to no sell and physically bury him in a match one night and the next night you have him verbally bury him. It's ridiculous.

They sacrificed the health of their future stars, ppv buys etc, to keep one guy strong. Eventually, the crowd (i mean 70%+) will turn on Cena.

 

[RD_21]

What I find dumb is the people who call other people ideas dumb because they don't agree with it.

Cena is BEYOND STALE! Punk is feuding with Cena you know what my first reaction was when it happenned? Oh crap they will destroy Punk on his return and Cena will win because that's what he does. Yeah sure that'swhat face do but man he has to win everything in the end maybe the kiddies like it but I am just fed up with this guy. I am honestly at the point where I am wishing him an injury if they don't do something fresh with him, I just can't stand him anymore as Super-Cena.

So considering the fact that he is stale it wouldn't be dumb to turn him. Then you have the argument that "he is selling merch". You know who would be selling merch like crazy? ANYONE who would oppose Cena who just crushed the feeling of all the kids that look up to him so I don't see that argument being that strong either.

I don't really want him heel but he NEEDS to change, wheter it's a new gimmick, new ring attire (other than another color), new facial expression (not over acting all the time) and/or a heel turn, but something needs to be done imo, feel free to disagree.

 

[Tequila Dave]

What I find dumb is the people who call other people ideas dumb because they don't agree with it.

Cena is BEYOND STALE! Punk is feuding with Cena you know what my first reaction was when it happenned? Oh crap they will destroy Punk on his return and Cena will win because that's what he does. Yeah sure that'swhat face do but man he has to win everything in the end maybe the kiddies like it but I am just fed up with this guy. I am honestly at the point where I am wishing him an injury if they don't do something fresh with him, I just can't stand him anymore as Super-Cena.

So considering the fact that he is stale it wouldn't be dumb to turn him. Then you have the argument that "he is selling merch". You know who would be selling merch like crazy? ANYONE who would oppose Cena who just crushed the feeling of all the kids that look up to him so I don't see that argument being that strong either.

I don't really want him heel but he NEEDS to change, wheter it's a new gimmick, new ring attire (other than another color), new facial expression (not over acting all the time) and/or a heel turn, but something needs to be done imo, feel free to disagree.

I would say i respect your opinion, but I really don't. You're stupid.

You say Cena is stale (the definition of which is to 'lack freshness') but I'm guessing you don't bitch about the Undertaker of Shawn Michaels, despite the fact they have had the same characters for even longer than Cena has had his. You may argue that they find a way to remain fresh with interesting feuds, but at the point Cena is consistently involved in the biggest feuds in WWE, surely he isn't as stale as the Undertaker is of Michaels was.

You're complaining that Cena wins too much? Not only is he a face, but he's the company's BIGGEST face, and thus, the face of wrestling. There is a reason for that you know; and it's because no matter how much members of the IWC bitch, it is the biggest wrestling draw today. Anyway, of course he fucking wins, he's meant to be strong; he's the modern day Hogan. Plus, when was the last time The Undertaker lost a match cleanly (other than Night of Champions against Kane)? It was leading up to Wrestlemania 25 against Vladmir Kozlov who got the fluke win. John Cena has lost a number of times cleanly since then against the likes of Triple H, Randy Orton and Sheamus. Speaking of Sheamus, John Cena MADE Sheamus. Cena has an amazing ability to create superstars, even if eventually beats them (e.g. Nexus.) You may be complaining that Cena is gonna beat Punk, but I can guarentee you that feud is gonna elevate Punk to new heights regardless of the outcome. Oh and by the way, wishing an injury on someone is not cool.

I really don't get your merchandise arguement, are you saying that whoever beats Cena will have there merchandise sell like crazy? That's a weak arguement. Here are the facts: Cena is the biggest merchadise seller in wrestling today, merchandise sales = money, WWE is a BUSINESS that relies on money. Ok? Ok

Feel free to disagree.

 

[nwo1234life]

I Insist cuz John Cena is stale as Hogan circa 1991-1995! the man needs a heel turn. and the biggest stars in wrestling have turned heel like Hogan,Austin,Rock,Bret,etc.
and if WWE wants Cena to be remembered as fondly as those guys are then he needs to turn.

 

[SullivanSmith]

I don't think Cena NEEDS to be turned heel and I think he genuinely enjoys the role he's playing right now. Do I think it would be an interesting turn and he can pull it off? Sure. Do I think turning him heel is the be-all-end-all solution to WWE's current staleness? Not really. Am I overdoing this Donald Rumsfeld-style ask myself a question and then answering it thing? I feel like I'm getting there.

 

[sXe_Factor]

Quite frankly, the way I see it, even from a business standpoint it doesn't make too much sense to keep him as a face...
Look at someone like Stone Cold Steve Austin. He sold just as much merchandise as a heel...
If a Cena turn was handled right, he'd be the same way.

As for why Cena needs to turn? Had a look at the ratings lately? Compare those to a year ago. Or two years ago. Or three years ago.

Cena might be popular with the kids, but it's the adults who choose what to watch. It's the adults who have to pay for all the merchandise, so if he's not doing anything for the adults, he's actually doing more harm than good.