Cena + HBK = Gold

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I hope you know that I was being sarcastic.

I did know that, but what were you trying to say by being sarcastic? Do you think WM should be headlined by HBK/Cena AGAIN or do you think he should face Orton or Jericho?

I personally don't like seeing WM main events repeated. Rock and Austin headlined both WM 15 and WM 17, and imo the second match was no where near as entertaining as the first one was, and the only intriguing part of the rematch was when Austin and Vince revealed they were working together.

HBK vs Cena was also only 2 years ago, and i think the same thing would happen with this WM rematch.

Jericho has lost to Cena twice in the last 3 months, so i'm not so eager to see that again, and it's been almost a year since we had Cena v Orton 1 on 1, so that's the match i'd want to see personally.

Well, many thought it was a great match. They've only had two matches before this one, one was at Wrestlemania 23 and the other one was on Raw and lasted 1 whole hour. Totally different matches.

Apart from an extra 20 minutes (which probably involved 3 ad breaks anyway) and a different result, i don't recall a great deal of difference between their first two matches, but then if i'm really honest, i don't remember a great deal about the 2nd match anyway.

And in regards what i said before about the matches being the same, it's something that most of the face ME guys do anyway. They always tend to have a sequence of moves that lead to the finish. HHH 8/10 times does his AA spinebuster, followed by his taunt and then the Pedigree. Batista 8/10 times does his spinebuster, then his best Warrior impression, then the Batista bomb, HBK like i said does the flying forearm/kip-up/inv atomic drop/scoop slam/elbow drop combo before tuning up, and Cena ducks the right hand, does his spinning back drop or whatever it's called, and 99% of the time follows up with the 5KS, and then sets up for an FU. He may not always hit it, but that's the usual set up.

I know i would say this, but Taker is about the only guy who's signature moves come at any given time in any given order. I.e. Old school could happen in the first 30 seconds it could happen in the last 2 minutes, or not at all. Sure, the Last Ride ALWAYS comes when the opponent is punching him on the ropes, and the apron legdrop can be seen coming a mile off, but the timing of his other moves are difficult to pre-empt.

 

[Rusty]

I did know that, but what were you trying to say by being sarcastic? Do you think WM should be headlined by HBK/Cena AGAIN or do you think he should face Orton or Jericho?

I personally don't like seeing WM main events repeated. Rock and Austin headlined both WM 15 and WM 17, and imo the second match was no where near as entertaining as the first one was, and the only intriguing part of the rematch was when Austin and Vince revealed they were working together.

HBK vs Cena was also only 2 years ago, and i think the same thing would happen with this WM rematch.

Jericho has lost to Cena twice in the last 3 months, so i'm not so eager to see that again, and it's been almost a year since we had Cena v Orton 1 on 1, so that's the match i'd want to see personally.

I do want to see John Cena vs Randy Orton at Wrestlemania 25 for the title. I was just stirring you up. Take it easy man. But I mean, this match has already happened on ppv and even on Raw! So we aren't seeing anything different, therefore there is a slight chance the match might not draw. Nonetheless, I hope this match does take place though.

Apart from an extra 20 minutes (which probably involved 3 ad breaks anyway) and a different result, i don't recall a great deal of difference between their first two matches, but then if i'm really honest, i don't remember a great deal about the 2nd match anyway.

And in regards what i said before about the matches being the same, it's something that most of the face ME guys do anyway. They always tend to have a sequence of moves that lead to the finish. HHH 8/10 times does his AA spinebuster, followed by his taunt and then the Pedigree. Batista 8/10 times does his spinebuster, then his best Warrior impression, then the Batista bomb, HBK like i said does the flying forearm/kip-up/inv atomic drop/scoop slam/elbow drop combo before tuning up, and Cena ducks the right hand, does his spinning back drop or whatever it's called, and 99% of the time follows up with the 5KS, and then sets up for an FU. He may not always hit it, but that's the usual set up.

I know i would say this, but Taker is about the only guy who's signature moves come at any given time in any given order. I.e. Old school could happen in the first 30 seconds it could happen in the last 2 minutes, or not at all. Sure, the Last Ride ALWAYS comes when the opponent is punching him on the ropes, and the apron legdrop can be seen coming a mile off, but the timing of his other moves are difficult to pre-empt.

That's like saying all main event single matches are the same, well technically, they are similar. The heels dominant most of the match, the babyface fights back and either wins or comes close to winning. If the faces dominant the matches though, the heels will look like absolutely shit, and the match just wouldn't feel right. Signature moves are very important to wrestling. Without them, wrestling just wouldn't be the same.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

I do want to see John Cena vs Randy Orton at Wrestlemania 25 for the title. I was just stirring you up. Take it easy man. But I mean, this match has already happened on ppv and even on Raw! So we aren't seeing anything different, therefore there is a slight chance the match might not draw. Nonetheless, I hope this match does take place though.

Yeah, but it wasn't as recent as last week though. Though in saying that, there's still about 80 days until WM, plus another PPV, which could easily involve Orton, seeing as apparently the SD ME for NWO is going to be the EC again. Who knows, but i do know they'd be better off having face v heelfor the title. Also, Cena and HBK have beaten each other cleanly, with HBK winning twice (correct me if i'm wrong). Orton has never beaten Cena 1 on 1 if i recall (i'm talking about since they became ME talent, and again correct me if i'm wrong), so i'd like to see Orton beat Cena on his own.

That's like saying all main event single matches are the same, well technically, they are similar. The heels dominant most of the match, the babyface fights back and either wins or comes close to winning. If the faces dominant the matches though, the heels will look like absolutely shit, and the match just wouldn't feel right. Signature moves are very important to wrestling. Without them, wrestling just wouldn't be the same.

Unfortunately, a lot of any matches are the same these days. The attitude era was the era for hardcore wrestling and stupid spots, whereas now they're trying to get the focus back on the in ring wrestling, however, it's become somewhat too simplistic imo.

As you say, it is always a level playing field in the beginning, and then somehow the heel takes advantage, and then loses that advantage and they either suffer, or manage to sneak in a finisher and win. That's all fine and dandy, but the moves the wrestlers use these days aren't that imaginative.

Near enough every wrestler who uses a submission move these days uses a rear chin lock, and nothing else. Would it kill them to lock in a short-arm scissor every now and again, or maybe a spinning toe hold, or even a surfboard stretch? Hip tosses and headlock takedowns are about as technical as the grappling gets these days and it's a sad sight to see. I mean, where are all the suplexes these days? A vertical suplex, a belly to back, the occassional belly to belly, a northern lights once in a blue moon, and Regal might do an exploder suplex if he's got an extra 20 seconds of his match to fit it in.

When i brought that up, it was me venting frustrations with how the majority of matches are carried out these days. If you ever read my comments about the guys in Priceless, you'll notice that i frequently describe their wrestling skills as a replication of their father's wrestling skills some 20 years ago, back when that style of match was still popular. It's something i notice among a LOT of the mid card guys, and the only ones gaining true recognition by WWE who don't have HOF daddy's are the ones with innovative moves i.e Punk, Kofi, Morrisson, Miz, Bourne, Swagger (he's the first guy i've seen do a gut wrench powerbomb since Test left), and back when he was new, Kennedy.

 

[Y-2-Jay]

LOL its funny that Cena fans say that Cena vs HBK matches are memorable but can not remember they have had 4 MATCHES WM23,raw in london,wrestlemania rewind edition of raw and on monday night there matches are really memorable.

 

[Slyfox696]

LOL its funny that Cena fans say that Cena vs HBK matches are memorable but can not remember they have had 4 MATCHES WM23,raw in london,wrestlemania rewind edition of raw and on monday night there matches are really memorable.

Who said anything about memorable? I said that three separate times they've been put together, and put on an incredible match.

As far as the rewind match, are you referring to the one that was nothing more than a build to another match and angle, and ended in a DQ from Orton?


I remembered the match just fine, I'm just talking about the three matches they've had that was incredible. But hey, why bother with reading comprehension?

 

[Uncle Sam]

I suppose you're one of those smarks that think the Undertaker vs Edge match was the greatest thing to ever hit this earth.

That match was fantastic though.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

LOL its funny that Cena fans say that Cena vs HBK matches are memorable but can not remember they have had 4 MATCHES WM23,raw in london,wrestlemania rewind edition of raw and on monday night there matches are really memorable.

1) I happen to have an amazing memory when it comes to things i have seen on television. It's an absurd, nerdy gift of mine

2) I hate John Cena yet still remember all the matches

 

[Miko]

Near enough every wrestler who uses a submission move these days uses a rear chin lock, and nothing else. Would it kill them to lock in a short-arm scissor every now and again, or maybe a spinning toe hold, or even a surfboard stretch? Hip tosses and headlock takedowns are about as technical as the grappling gets these days and it's a sad sight to see. I mean, where are all the suplexes these days? A vertical suplex, a belly to back, the occassional belly to belly, a northern lights once in a blue moon, and Regal might do an exploder suplex if he's got an extra 20 seconds of his match to fit it in.

TNA, just ask them.

 

[Y-2-Jay]

Who said anything about memorable? I said that three separate times they've been put together, and put on an incredible match.

As far as the rewind match, are you referring to the one that was nothing more than a build to another match and angle, and ended in a DQ from Orton?


I remembered the match just fine, I'm just talking about the three matches they've had that was incredible. But hey, why bother with reading comprehension?

I just watched it and it was not that good

Their WM23 match was ok could have been better if cena sold his knee properly its a shame that match could of been the best mania match in a while.

Raw in london in 07: Overrated WM23 was way better,Long matches doesnt make it a classic still good for raw.

wrestlemania rewind raw in 08: This was the worst by a mile i was expecting a classic i was dissapointed a step down from both matches,It had no good come out of it and had a crappy ending,No wonder hardly anyone remembers it.

Raw on monday: I found this better than the one in london great match by both men one of my fav's of the past years no one can say that was a bad match it was great,hope there is a cena vs hbk v it would be a certian
classic.

so i would say not always gold but no one can say they have had not one gold match

 

[Rusty]

Yeah, but it wasn't as recent as last week though. Though in saying that, there's still about 80 days until WM, plus another PPV, which could easily involve Orton, seeing as apparently the SD ME for NWO is going to be the EC again. Who knows, but i do know they'd be better off having face v heelfor the title. Also, Cena and HBK have beaten each other cleanly, with HBK winning twice (correct me if i'm wrong). Orton has never beaten Cena 1 on 1 if i recall (i'm talking about since they became ME talent, and again correct me if i'm wrong), so i'd like to see Orton beat Cena on his own.

Yes, because heels winning at the biggest stage of them all hasn't happen since..... last year. Coincidentally, Orton pinned Cena too last year. Why would anyone want to see it again the year after? Have Cena win the match this time, that way everyone goes home happy (except smarks of course).

Unfortunately, a lot of any matches are the same these days. The attitude era was the era for hardcore wrestling and stupid spots, whereas now they're trying to get the focus back on the in ring wrestling, however, it's become somewhat too simplistic imo.

I actually like today's style of wrestling. Based on my opinion only.

As you say, it is always a level playing field in the beginning, and then somehow the heel takes advantage, and then loses that advantage and they either suffer, or manage to sneak in a finisher and win. That's all fine and dandy, but the moves the wrestlers use these days aren't that imaginative.

Maybe the bookers tell them what moves they can and can't do.

Near enough every wrestler who uses a submission move these days uses a rear chin lock, and nothing else. Would it kill them to lock in a short-arm scissor every now and again, or maybe a spinning toe hold, or even a surfboard stretch? Hip tosses and headlock takedowns are about as technical as the grappling gets these days and it's a sad sight to see. I mean, where are all the suplexes these days? A vertical suplex, a belly to back, the occassional belly to belly, a northern lights once in a blue moon, and Regal might do an exploder suplex if he's got an extra 20 seconds of his match to fit it in.

I do agree, but it shouldn't make a huge difference to the overall match quality. Once again, the bookers may have control over a wrestler's moves. So don't completely blame the superstars.

When i brought that up, it was me venting frustrations with how the majority of matches are carried out these days. If you ever read my comments about the guys in Priceless, you'll notice that i frequently describe their wrestling skills as a replication of their father's wrestling skills some 20 years ago, back when that style of match was still popular. It's something i notice among a LOT of the mid card guys, and the only ones gaining true recognition by WWE who don't have HOF daddy's are the ones with innovative moves i.e Punk, Kofi, Morrisson, Miz, Bourne, Swagger (he's the first guy i've seen do a gut wrench powerbomb since Test left), and back when he was new, Kennedy.

I have no idea what your overall point is from this statement. Do you like the mid-card guys or don't you?

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Yes, because heels winning at the biggest stage of them all hasn't happen since..... last year. Coincidentally, Orton pinned Cena too last year. Why would anyone want to see it again the year after? Have Cena win the match this time, that way everyone goes home happy (except smarks of course).

Didn't say anything about heels winning the title match, i said i'd want to see Orton beat Cena cleanly 1-on-1, because that result has never occurred in any of their matches. Whereas last year, Orton got a quick pin in a triple threat match, which doesn't prove that he can actually beat Cena

Maybe the bookers tell them what moves they can and can't do.

Probably, it would explain why no one does German suplexes anymore, beause people will think of Benoit, but then there are guys who are exceptions like Evan Bourne doing the SSP, and HHH and Benoit doing the Crossface. What's the deal with that exactly?

I do agree, but it shouldn't make a huge difference to the overall match quality. Once again, the bookers may have control over a wrestler's moves. So don't completely blame the superstars.

It shouldn't but it does when you see near enough the same match every week, except the competitors and signature moves have been changed. Also we've seen a LOT of shit finishes to matches since this started happening i.e. guys tripping over and hitting their head on their opponent's knee and losing. Remember that last year?

I have no idea what your overall point is from this statement. Do you like the mid-card guys or don't you?

I was saying that the majority of guys on this forum, mark out for the guys who have innovative repetoire's i.e. Morrisson with his springboard roundhouse kick, and Miz with his clothesline in the corner where he slides through the ropes, Kingston with his weird double leg drop, his counter to being thrown out where he uses his neck to bounce back in and his mounted punches where he does the running jump. The ones with decent mic skills get ahead quickly too.

Like i say, i enjoy wrestlers who do things that make them stand out, which is about the guys i mentioned and very few others.

 

[Rusty]

Didn't say anything about heels winning the title match, i said i'd want to see Orton beat Cena cleanly 1-on-1, because that result has never occurred in any of their matches. Whereas last year, Orton got a quick pin in a triple threat match, which doesn't prove that he can actually beat Cena

Well you were talking about the WM main event and you mentioned that you want Orton vs Cena with Orton winning the match cleanly. So technically you WERE talking about the title match.

Heel obsession is so smarky.

Probably, it would explain why no one does German suplexes anymore, beause people will think of Benoit, but then there are guys who are exceptions like Evan Bourne doing the SSP, and HHH and Benoit doing the Crossface. What's the deal with that exactly?

I have no idea, but I do agree with this.

It shouldn't but it does when you see near enough the same match every week, except the competitors and signature moves have been changed. Also we've seen a LOT of shit finishes to matches since this started happening i.e. guys tripping over and hitting their head on their opponent's knee and losing. Remember that last year?

Yeah, that was bullshit. But even on Raw this past week, Orton beat Kane with a drop kick! And the worst part was that Kane got a shoulder up, so I think that might have been a fuck-up by Kane there.

I was saying that the majority of guys on this forum, mark out for the guys who have innovative repetoire's i.e. Morrisson with his springboard roundhouse kick, and Miz with his clothesline in the corner where he slides through the ropes, Kingston with his weird double leg drop, his counter to being thrown out where he uses his neck to bounce back in and his mounted punches where he does the running jump. The ones with decent mic skills get ahead quickly too.

Like i say, i enjoy wrestlers who do things that make them stand out, which is about the guys i mentioned and very few others.

Agreed. But Jeff Hardy doesn't have good mic skills, and he's the WWE Champion.