"Cena Fans"

Yes, I’m a Cena fan, been one since the beginning. However, I want to look at one single argument, “He always has the title.” First, yes, Cena is 11 an time World Champion which means 10 times someone else took the strap when Cena dropped it. That means the WWE gave someone a chance to become a star, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. But, let’s not kid ourselves, Cena doesn’t always have the title. Remember that 13 month run in 2010-2011 when didn’t have the strap.

I believe there is a bigger problem than Cena. Let’s be honest, the WWE is in the middle of an era transition. Cena has, at best, 5 years left. Then he will start the Undertaker, HHH, HBK decline. With that said, the young guys (i.e. Alex Riley, Cody Rhodes, Mason Ryan, Heath Slater) are not ready to make a 6 month title run.

All of the below are on the active roster and have carried a World/WWE Title…
Undertaker (semi-retired)
HHH (semi-retired)
The Great Khali (fluke)
Kane (heel most of the time)
Christian (heel most of the time)
Dolph Ziggler (heel)
Sheamus (heel)
The Miz (heel)
Jack Swagger (heel)
Randy Orton (heel)
CM Punk (heel)
Rey Mysterio (face)
John Cena (face)

I don’t think the problem is Cena as much as it is a lack babyfaces the WWE has to push. Are you telling me John Morrison or Kofi Kingston can get over better than Cena? Rey has a target audience, KIDS, the same as Cena! The same target audience that begs for shirts, action figures, posters and all the other revenue generators.

How many other true faces are even on the roster?

John Morrison
Kofi Kingston
Mason Ryan
Heath Slater
Zack Ryder
Daniel Bryan
Justin Gabriel
Sin Cara
Alex Riley
Santino Marella
Tyson Kidd
Yoshi Tatsu

Who, in that group will lead the babyfaces in the next 5 years? Maybe Morrison or Kofi could, my point is that the problem is not as much with John Cena. The problem is more of the lack of development of faces in the WWE.
 
The original post of this thread is whats wrong with IWC boards. No matter how well written a post may be, posters will resort to conjecture and project their own feelings and opinions on others. Ive never seen so many opinions past off as if they’re facts. I do not understand the thought processes that one goes through to make a statement like people do not like John Cena because they feel as if they are ordering chicken fingers at a 4 star restaurant. The fuck is that? And to say that people are embarrassed to be pro wrestling fans so they dislike John Cena in order to justify ‘liking’ such a non- cool sport/tv program is absurd. Where does one come up with this? How do you ‘figure this out”?

It doesn’t matter if you’re Cena fan or an Indie wrestling fan, its always the same. Some completely made up analysis of why ‘those’ fans don’t like Daniel Bryan or why ‘those’ fans don’t like John Cena. It’s as if no rap fan can dislike 50 cent or no boxing fan can dislike Floyd Mayweather. If you want to know why someone doesn’t John Cena or John Morrison or any other wrestler, just listen to the reason they give you. There are PLENTY of reasons for a wrestling fan to not be fond of ANY wrestler you could possibly name! so why is it than when I tell you I don’t like John Cena, you have to act as if I cant POSSIBLY actually dislike John Cena…it must be that I’m embarrassed that I like wrestling and trying to make it OK to watch the show by disliking Cena.

How bout you just listen to the reason I tell you why I don’t like Cena. What…I cant dislike John Cena just because I don’t like his character, matches and wrestling style? Maybe I don’t like his promos…maybe the wrestling style I personally enjoy watching is more of the style we see in ROH or when TNA first got started. Maybe I simply don’t like the Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Stone Cold style of wrestling. Maybe I personally find Cena’s character corny. Maybe I find him boring and repetitive and I just don’t like how he’s booked. Maybe I feel like he IS shoved down my throat. Is that impossible or something?? Im 33 years old and never like the Hulk Hogan character when I started watching 25 years ago. Its just a personal preference. I say again..there are PLENTY of reasons not to like Cena, Punk, Bryan, Hardy or anyone else. It has nothing to do with being embarrassed of liking what I like. I think Cena AND Punk fans need to just accept the fact that not everyone likes the same things. If people don’t like John Cena (or CM Punk) on their TV screens then they don’t like them. Period. What I don’t get is that people constantly give their reasons for having the opinions they have and people ignore those reasons and say “I know the REAL reason you don’t like ~insert wrestlers name here.~ I don’t get it. Why are YOU telling ME why I don’t like a character? Why don’t you just let ME tell YOU??

Even though you describe my post as "whats wrong with the IWC boards", I liked your post. To be honest, I could care less if people like Cena or not. It's all about personal preference. Maybe I didn't make my post clear, but it wasn't about having to like John Cena. It was about the people who come on here and constantly scream that he's ruined wrestling and nobody likes him. It was about the people that accuse any poster they dont agree with of being a "10 year old stupid Cena fan". The resteraunt analogy was aimed at the people who think they are wiser and know more about the sport than Cena fans.

Again, I have no problem with people not liking John Cena. I have a problem with the people that say only idiots and little girls like John Cena. They claim that all "real" wrestling fans hate Cena. You can be a real wrestling fan and still like John Cena.
 
It's starting to piss me off how Cena fans get so annoyed and "carnt understand" why most people don't like him. Im not a fan of Cena's so don't fuckin criticise me for not being a fan of his. I am entitled to say what i want about whoever i want. I am a 18 year old woman who has been watching wrestling/WWE since a very young age. Yes, i know wrestling is fake. Yea some people may say it's "uncool" to watch wrestling but i don't care what people think. I am a die hard fan of the WWE and i am not ashamed to say that i watch wrestling. If i like to watch it, im ganna watch it. I'll continue watch the WWE till the day i die (thats if the company still exists).

Now onto the subject of John Cena. I understand he's the face of the WWE and should be featured prominently on the show but just because he is the face of the company and is a babyface doesn't mean i have to like him. I HATE Cena because he sucks as a wrestler, his gimmick is shite, every single one of his matches are very predictable, most of his promos are childish and cheesy, is always in the title picture and i find it a complete insult that someone like Cena who sucks in the ring has held a world title more times that The Rock, HBK, Y2J, Undertaker, Austin (list goes on and on), people who are a 100 times better in the ring than Cena. I understand the WWE isn't all about wrestling, its about money and from everyone in the WWE, Cena makes the most money for the company. I understand that but i still dont like him. Now if you don't agree with me, i really don't care but we'll just agree to disagree yeah?

And just for the record, i respect John Cena as a person, im sure he's a nice bloke. I love his pasSion for the WWE, he works his arse off for a company that i love too, he is a great rolemodel both for kids and adults and i love what he does for The Make a wish foundation. I truly have a lot of respect for him but i just dont like character. A solution to solve my and many other peoples problem with Cena is a change of gimmick...
 
John Cena is a Hulk Hogan-esque character in 2011 that is getting love from the people that buy merchandise and tickets, younger fans. You can hate him all you want but there hasn't been a young guy in the WWE with more dedication or loyalty to a brand then John Cena.

My hat's off to him. The guy is a great ambassador for pro wrestling and more proof of why the WWE is the top of the food chain in the business.

You took the words right out of my mouth.

The Cena hater's are just mad because he always has to win. That's not Cena's fault. It is the writers decision. Most importantly, it is Vince McMahon's decision. The reason why Vince chose Cena to be the face of the company is probably because he saw how dedicated this guy is and how much time and effort he is willing to give up in order to be here. Of course, John Cena isn't a Shawn Michaels, or a Stone Cold, or the Rock. But it's because he is simply John Cena. How come you people didn't complain about the Rock? Oh yeah, because doesn't "pander to the children." Cena is not the only one. The whole company is targeting a younger audience.

So, the hater's can say whatever they want about John Cena, but Cena has given so much for this business and that's why I have a lot of respect for John Cena.
 
Yes, I’m a Cena fan, been one since the beginning. However, I want to look at one single argument, “He always has the title.” First, yes, Cena is 11 an time World Champion which means 10 times someone else took the strap when Cena dropped it. That means the WWE gave someone a chance to become a star, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. But, let’s not kid ourselves, Cena doesn’t always have the title. Remember that 13 month run in 2010-2011 when didn’t have the strap.

I believe there is a bigger problem than Cena. Let’s be honest, the WWE is in the middle of an era transition. Cena has, at best, 5 years left. Then he will start the Undertaker, HHH, HBK decline. With that said, the young guys (i.e. Alex Riley, Cody Rhodes, Mason Ryan, Heath Slater) are not ready to make a 6 month title run.

All of the below are on the active roster and have carried a World/WWE Title…
Undertaker (semi-retired)
HHH (semi-retired)
The Great Khali (fluke)
Kane (heel most of the time)
Christian (heel most of the time)
Dolph Ziggler (heel)
Sheamus (heel)
The Miz (heel)
Jack Swagger (heel)
Randy Orton (heel)
CM Punk (heel)
Rey Mysterio (face)
John Cena (face)

I don’t think the problem is Cena as much as it is a lack babyfaces the WWE has to push. Are you telling me John Morrison or Kofi Kingston can get over better than Cena? Rey has a target audience, KIDS, the same as Cena! The same target audience that begs for shirts, action figures, posters and all the other revenue generators.

How many other true faces are even on the roster?

John Morrison
Kofi Kingston
Mason Ryan
Heath Slater
Zack Ryder
Daniel Bryan
Justin Gabriel
Sin Cara
Alex Riley
Santino Marella
Tyson Kidd
Yoshi Tatsu

Who, in that group will lead the babyfaces in the next 5 years? Maybe Morrison or Kofi could, my point is that the problem is not as much with John Cena. The problem is more of the lack of development of faces in the WWE.

Awesomely put. This is exactly what has been on my mind for weeks now. It's actually not Cena's fault at all that he sucks for the older fans. It's the creative's fault that he has had the same gimmick for like 7 years and that they have either not bothered to, or not been able to, push anyone as a credible face, to replace Cena when he gets boring (he is already boring to me but I see a time when he will get boring for many more people - have you observed that he gets much more booed today that he did even 2 years ago?). Sure it is cool to boo him, but that's only part of the reason 50% of the fans boo him. The other is of course his staleness, however much any Cena fan on here wishes to deny it.

Cena has actually improved his mic skills a hell lot over the last few years, in my opinion. He is actually very good on the mic, and it's not fair to compare him to The Rock or to Austin because those guys were pure legends on the mic.
And he has shown that he CAN wrestle, look at his last two matches - against Punk and Rey. Again, it is the WWE's fault they made him keep like 5 moves and do them each time.
It is all WWE's fault here, and not Cena's - everything - from his stale gimmick to his limited ring work to his silly t-shirts.

That said, it can't be denied that the kids are going to like him even 10 years from now, even if he remains the same character. I actually remember, as a kid, being a crazy fan of Steve Austin from 1998 onwards and though I loved every bit of his anti-hero antics, I primarily loved him because he stood up to the "evil boss". Obviously I was confused back then about how real pro-wrestling was.
And then came along the Rock, and I hated him. Yes, I hated the Rock. I hated him because 1) I saw him as a competitor to Austin especially in terms of popularity, 2) He just seemed to be such a wannabe to me and I remembered him from his Corporation days when he was extremely annoying and harassed my hero Steve Austin and 3) I simply connected more with the Austin character whom I found more down-to-earth and real.

So you see, the kids aren't going to dump Cena for anyone else, anytime soon. Just like I didn't dump Austin for the Rock, ever. I still wouldn't.
And the older fans aren't going to love Cena anytime soon either.

The bottomline is that every fan of every age sees logic in liking any wrestler that he or she likes, whether it's Cena or Punk or Morrison or even The Miz. No one can change that. I don't see why Cena's fans should therefore be vilified by the Cena haters here.

Blame the product, blame the WWE's stupid booking over the last 6-7 years, blame their laziness and laxity in creating new faces and interesting angles. But don't blame John Cena himself - he only does what he is told and he is capable of being much better. At best he could be blamed for not wanting to do something different. Then again, maybe he just simply loves what he does, too much.

I don't hate Cena. I just hate the way he is potrayed, but I do have to grudingly admit that he drives sales and is very popular with the kids who are a majorly targeted segment.

P.S.: Someone said Hogan held the title for 4 years? Dude Sammartino held it for 8 years. The problem with Cena holding it repeatedly is that the time span between shows today is much much lesser than the time span between shows in the 80s, and even more lesser than that in the 60s and 70s. Therefore, today it is not interesting to have the same person hold the belt, or challenge for it, for an insanely long period of time, or very repeatedly. Sammartino was champ when they had like 4 shows a year? Hogan was champ when they had like 20 shows a year? Cena has been 11 time champion in 6.25 years, when they have 2 shows a week and one PPV a month, what does that make, 115 shows a year? Discount the fact that he is not on Smackdown and yet you have about 64 shows featuring Cena every year where he gets about 20% of the screen time on average. That it why it is no longer interesting for a certain section of the fans.
 
It's starting to piss me off how Cena fans get so annoyed and "carnt understand" why most people don't like him. Im not a fan of Cena's so don't fuckin criticise me for not being a fan of his. I am entitled to say what i want about whoever i want. I am a 18 year old woman who has been watching wrestling/WWE since a very young age. Yes, i know wrestling is fake. Yea some people may say it's "uncool" to watch wrestling but i don't care what people think. I am a die hard fan of the WWE and i am not ashamed to say that i watch wrestling. If i like to watch it, im ganna watch it. I'll continue watch the WWE till the day i die (thats if the company still exists).

Now onto the subject of John Cena. I understand he's the face of the WWE and should be featured prominently on the show but just because he is the face of the company and is a babyface doesn't mean i have to like him. I HATE Cena because he sucks as a wrestler, his gimmick is shite, every single one of his matches are very predictable, most of his promos are childish and cheesy, is always in the title picture and i find it a complete insult that someone like Cena who sucks in the ring has held a world title more times that The Rock, HBK, Y2J, Undertaker, Austin (list goes on and on), people who are a 100 times better in the ring than Cena. I understand the WWE isn't all about wrestling, its about money and from everyone in the WWE, Cena makes the most money for the company. I understand that but i still dont like him. Now if you don't agree with me, i really don't care but we'll just agree to disagree yeah?

And just for the record, i respect John Cena as a person, im sure he's a nice bloke. I love his pasSion for the WWE, he works his arse off for a company that i love too, he is a great rolemodel both for kids and adults and i love what he does for The Make a wish foundation. I truly have a lot of respect for him but i just dont like character. A solution to solve my and many other peoples problem with Cena is a change of gimmick...
Again it's not that people don't understand why you don't like him, it's how you go about it. His matches may not entertain you, but people waaaay more qualified say he's good. His promos aren't actually that cheesey if you really pay attention to what he's saying. Personally I think "roody poo candy ass" is cheesey and something you'd hear in a trailer park. Who cares how many times he's held the belt? Rock and Austin were both around at their peak of overness for about 4 years. Is it Cena's fault how he's booked or that Austin got too hurt to continue or that Rock quit?

It's downright fucking stupid to think that Cena should have less title reigns than Rock or Austin considering Cena has been on top since 2005 (7 years) and Rock was on top from late 1999-2002 and took a year off, so basically 2 years and Austin was on top from 1998-2002 and took a year off for injury, so basically 3 years. You think that John Cena as the top guy in the company for SEVEN years should have less titles than 2 guys who combined being on top for 5 and were in the company at the same time? That's really REALLY dumb. That's like saying Prince Fielder should have more home runs than Albert Pujols even though he's played way less. It's unrealistic. As far as "100 times more talented"...have you ever gone back and watched Rock matches? If you're a MOOVEZ guy then Rock is worse than Cena. Neither guy is a technical wizard, they both relied on working the audience.

Second, you do the whole selfish thing I talk about. You suggest that they change his gimmick. Why? To satisfy YOU? It doesn't make any sense to chang his character on ANY LEVEL.

Basically again, I don't care that you don't like him, but your reasoning for hating him is straight up stupid. The number of times he has held the belt doesn't matter because most guys aren't on top as long as Cena has been and if they were (Hogan) they had longer title reigns than Cena. So that argument is null and voice.

Thinking he sucks in the ring is fine. He doesn't entertain you. However, saying the Rock, who essentially has the same exact style, or any other superhero style babyface with a simple moveset that relies on working the audience is better is dumb. Saying he doesn't have good matches when guys like Ric Flair, samoa joe, and bryan alvarez say he does makes you look ignorant. Saying you think he should change his character shows that you can't think outside your own likes and dislikes. I think Albert Pujols should bat lead off to get more at bats since the rest of the lineup sucks, but I'm probably wrong and I accept that Tony LaRussa knows more about baseball than I do.

It's shit like this that bugs me. You think we're bad for "no understanding why you don't like Cena". No, we understand, the problem is that you basically say "I like him as a person but I think he sucks in the ring and needs to change his character". That's NOT a good answer. That's like saying "I like black people but....they're lazy". No, you didn't have a single good, intelligent argument. You didn't think about things from a company perspective. Which basically means you legitimately don't understand it (saying he should change his character). Makes no sense.


Go up a few posts and read my part about disliking Michael Cole. That's basically how you should say you dislike someone. You state that you understand why he is where he is and you DON'T say they should change the character or what they're doing if the guy is over. That is where you sound selfish and ignorant.
 
Awesomely put. This is exactly what has been on my mind for weeks now. It's actually not Cena's fault at all that he sucks for the older fans. It's the creative's fault that he has had the same gimmick for like 7 years and that they have either not bothered to, or not been able to, push anyone as a credible face, to replace Cena when he gets boring (he is already boring to me but I see a time when he will get boring for many more people - have you observed that he gets much more booed today that he did even 2 years ago?). Sure it is cool to boo him, but that's only part of the reason 50% of the fans boo him. The other is of course his staleness, however much any Cena fan on here wishes to deny it.

Cena has actually improved his mic skills a hell lot over the last few years, in my opinion. He is actually very good on the mic, and it's not fair to compare him to The Rock or to Austin because those guys were pure legends on the mic.
And he has shown that he CAN wrestle, look at his last two matches - against Punk and Rey. Again, it is the WWE's fault they made him keep like 5 moves and do them each time.
It is all WWE's fault here, and not Cena's - everything - from his stale gimmick to his limited ring work to his silly t-shirts.

That said, it can't be denied that the kids are going to like him even 10 years from now, even if he remains the same character. I actually remember, as a kid, being a crazy fan of Steve Austin from 1998 onwards and though I loved every bit of his anti-hero antics, I primarily loved him because he stood up to the "evil boss". Obviously I was confused back then about how real pro-wrestling was.
And then came along the Rock, and I hated him. Yes, I hated the Rock. I hated him because 1) I saw him as a competitor to Austin especially in terms of popularity, 2) He just seemed to be such a wannabe to me and I remembered him from his Corporation days when he was extremely annoying and harassed my hero Steve Austin and 3) I simply connected more with the Austin character whom I found more down-to-earth and real.

So you see, the kids aren't going to dump Cena for anyone else, anytime soon. Just like I didn't dump Austin for the Rock, ever. I still wouldn't.
And the older fans aren't going to love Cena anytime soon either.

The bottomline is that every fan of every age sees logic in liking any wrestler that he or she likes, whether it's Cena or Punk or Morrison or even The Miz. No one can change that. I don't see why Cena's fans should therefore be vilified by the Cena haters here.

Blame the product, blame the WWE's stupid booking over the last 6-7 years, blame their laziness and laxity in creating new faces and interesting angles. But don't blame John Cena himself - he only does what he is told and he is capable of being much better. At best he could be blamed for not wanting to do something different. Then again, maybe he just simply loves what he does, too much.

I don't hate Cena. I just hate the way he is potrayed, but I do have to grudingly admit that he drives sales and is very popular with the kids who are a majorly targeted segment.

P.S.: Someone said Hogan held the title for 4 years? Dude Sammartino held it for 8 years. The problem with Cena holding it repeatedly is that the time span between shows today is much much lesser than the time span between shows in the 80s, and even more lesser than that in the 60s and 70s. Therefore, today it is not interesting to have the same person hold the belt, or challenge for it, for an insanely long period of time, or very repeatedly. Sammartino was champ when they had like 4 shows a year? Hogan was champ when they had like 20 shows a year? Cena has been 11 time champion in 6.25 years, when they have 2 shows a week and one PPV a month, what does that make, 115 shows a year? Discount the fact that he is not on Smackdown and yet you have about 64 shows featuring Cena every year where he gets about 20% of the screen time on average. That it why it is no longer interesting for a certain section of the fans.
Your entire last paragraph is laughably uninformed. They were on the road more then than they are now. So I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Hogan was THE guy. Just like Cena. The point isn't who had the belt more or who had more reigns, it's that the idea of who had more isn't even an argument. It doesn't fucking matter who had it for more days or for more reigns. Just that EVERY generation has a guy like Cena. You totally missed the point.

Also, I don't think you can blame WWE for Cena's character. "Blame"? Yea, blame them for creating a guy who makes them a ton of money. Blame Apple for making products that make them a ton of money too. Blame Coke for making really really good soda that everyone buys.

This is my biggest beef. SEPERATE YOURSELF FROM WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I don't give a fuck if the Jerry Spring style attitude era gave you a raging boner. Today's WWE MUST BE PG. If you don't understand that, stop posting on here until you do. John Cena is the embodyment of the era WWE has to take. He is popular amongst sponsors, amongst families, amongst charities. He is good for their image.

At the end of the day, the main problem here is that people, like you said, find their own logic in why they like or dislike a guy. The thing is, most people who like Cena on here can seperate their likes and dislikes from what actually matters. I'm a Cena fan but I don't have any of his shirts and I won't travel 8 hours to see him. I DID travel 6 1/2 hours both ways to Chicago to see Bryan Danielson. That's fanhood. However, as much of a fan as I am of Daniel Bryan Danielson, I don't think he should be the face of the company. It's because I can seperate my own likes and dislikes with what makes sense. Cena haters can't. They can't get over the idea that the WWF/E has for all but about 7 years of it's history since 1985 targeted kids. They can't get over a good looking, muscular, hard working, nice guy is the face of the company. They can't get over the fact that WWE is PG and they don't understand it. They just bitch that things aren't how they want it to be. Sure they might say "Cena is a nice guy but...." but that doesn't mean they actually get it. They legitimately do NOT know how to seperate their own likes and dislikes from what should actually be happening because they still think like a child in that they think that everyone thinks the same way they do. They legitimately think that turning Cena heel is a good idea just because it's what they want to see.
 
There's probably not a whole lot more to say on this topic, it's all been covered pretty well on here so far. I will just add my agreement to those saying that no one will blame you for not liking Cena if you have legit reasons. No half intelligent person, anyway. Yes, there are those on here who will say Cena is the man just because he is and you're an idiot if you don't like him, just like there are plenty of Cena haters who will hate him and his fans no matter what, give no good reasons, and call you a 12 year old for liking him.

I'm a big Cena fan, proud to admit it. For all the reasons, what he does for the company away from the ring, being it's public face 24/7 and yes, what he does in the ring as well.

Others have touched on his work outside the ring with Make A Wish, etc. There's no denying he gives a lot of his time to those types of organizations when he must already have a pretty full schedule. I think that makes him at least worthy of respect, if not admiration (and to be fair, a lot of his "non-fans" will say they do respect that aspect of him). It's got to be tough to have those kinds of demands on what little free time you have. It would be the easiest thing in the world for him to say he doesn't have the time. But he has persevered as the face of the company for several years now. Without knowing much else about his real-life personality, I think the rest just comes down to personal preference.

People will say they don't like him because he sucks in the ring, five moves, etc. I disagree, I think he's actually pretty good in the ring. Is he a master technician? Of course not. But I think he's added some new things lately and continues to improve. People on both sides of this argument can point to good or bad matches he's had to support their theory. In the end, you're going to think what you think, and I think he's pretty good.

People will say he's been shoved down our throats, too many titles, etc. I'll just restate what others have said; the top guy in the company is always pushed. Hogan, Austin, Rock, Trips, Hart to a point; all were pushed and got lots of TV time in their era. And if he's had the title 10 times, then he's lost it nine times. Nine title match losses. Plus, as was touched on, there are two titles instead of one, titles change hands more often in this era, and others like Edge and Rock have had comparable numbers of title runs.

I do personally think there's a lot to the whole smark argument. It's not "cool" to like him, only kids like him, you don't know wrestling if you like him. If I'm not cool, fine. I'm definitely not a kid. I think I know a little bit about wrestling. And I like him a lot. Sometimes it's ok to cheer for the good guy. Not every good guy can be a Punk/Austin antihero. There have to be heroes for there to be antiheroes. There's enough news about bad people in the real world, I don't mind seeing someone who always does the right thing, always stands up to the bad guy, even if it is fake. And in the end, it is fake. It's a show, and he's a character. If you don't like the character, fine. That's your opinion and I accept it. It would be nice if you had actual reasons behind it, and didn't ridicule those who don't share your views with childish insults. If you're someone like that, my hat's off to you. Dislike him all you want. I'll keep liking him, as will many others.
 
Ok, the way Cena is booked and the character he is asked to portray annoys the hell out of me just as much as it does a lot of other people, and I too would like to see him spend less time with the title or in the title hunt...

But it really, really irks me when people say he sucks in the ring or he can't wrestle. That is just patently absurd. Cena is an excellent in ring talent. He may have his "5 moves of doom" but guess what, that's because that's WWE main event face style. That's how they are asking him to work. Think back to his debut and his early build and his run as a heel before getting the title. And think of all the main event matches he has had since becoming the face of the company that have really only irked many of us who don't like the booking because of the finish that's scripted for the match... Cena is a damn fine in ring talent. Shit on the character and the booking as much as you want, but it's ridiculous to say he can't wrestle.
 
Your entire last paragraph is laughably uninformed. They were on the road more then than they are now. So I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. Hogan was THE guy. Just like Cena. The point isn't who had the belt more or who had more reigns, it's that the idea of who had more isn't even an argument. It doesn't fucking matter who had it for more days or for more reigns. Just that EVERY generation has a guy like Cena. You totally missed the point.

Also, I don't think you can blame WWE for Cena's character. "Blame"? Yea, blame them for creating a guy who makes them a ton of money. Blame Apple for making products that make them a ton of money too. Blame Coke for making really really good soda that everyone buys.

This is my biggest beef. SEPERATE YOURSELF FROM WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

I don't give a fuck if the Jerry Spring style attitude era gave you a raging boner. Today's WWE MUST BE PG. If you don't understand that, stop posting on here until you do. John Cena is the embodyment of the era WWE has to take. He is popular amongst sponsors, amongst families, amongst charities. He is good for their image.

At the end of the day, the main problem here is that people, like you said, find their own logic in why they like or dislike a guy. The thing is, most people who like Cena on here can seperate their likes and dislikes from what actually matters. I'm a Cena fan but I don't have any of his shirts and I won't travel 8 hours to see him. I DID travel 6 1/2 hours both ways to Chicago to see Bryan Danielson. That's fanhood. However, as much of a fan as I am of Daniel Bryan Danielson, I don't think he should be the face of the company. It's because I can seperate my own likes and dislikes with what makes sense. Cena haters can't. They can't get over the idea that the WWF/E has for all but about 7 years of it's history since 1985 targeted kids. They can't get over a good looking, muscular, hard working, nice guy is the face of the company. They can't get over the fact that WWE is PG and they don't understand it. They just bitch that things aren't how they want it to be. Sure they might say "Cena is a nice guy but...." but that doesn't mean they actually get it. They legitimately do NOT know how to seperate their own likes and dislikes from what should actually be happening because they still think like a child in that they think that everyone thinks the same way they do. They legitimately think that turning Cena heel is a good idea just because it's what they want to see.

Maybe I am misinformed about what I said in my last paragraph.

And yet, I completely disagree about what you said regarding Cena fans knowing how to separate their own likes and dislikes and Cena haters not knowing it. So every Cena fan is an intelligent fellow, sane and practical, while every Cena hater is an idiot who doesn't understand the business. Dude I am sorry but you are only pretending to be practical here. You should admit that you simply love Cena to the point where you can't bear criticism against him. I am not against that, but just admit it.

You may be right about some Cena haters being blind to practicality. But to brand all Cena haters as blind and stupid and by implication all Cena fans as intelligent is simply ridiculous. I am not putting down Cena - all I wanted to say to the Cena haters was in fact, that, if they really thought Cena being the face of the company was such a bad idea, they should blame it on the WWE and not on Cena.

And oh, btw, even in the Attitude Era (which I can see you disliked), there were calls for more family-friendly and inclusive programming, from many quarters. And yet the WWE/F did its most successful business ever, in that era. Why? I am not from the USA so I am unaware of social trends in the USA as such. Do you mean to imply that society during the late 90s was okay with adult content and many actually loved it, and today the society wishes to revert to more family-friendly entertainment? I don't think so, as I said, even in the Attitude Era the parents and many other entities wanted the WWF to tone down, but they didn't and they were hyper successful.

In response to your comment that I am misinformed, I wish to ask you this - was Sammartino ever booed heavily (I don't know, maybe you do). was Hogan ever booed as the top face? Probably not. Though I think some of the crowd used to go dead on him during the later stages of his epic face run (early-mid 90s)? Did Austin ever get booed as the top face (don't tell me 2001, he was heel then). No he didn't. This I can confirm because I watched all of his run as top face (and don't tell me 1997 because he wasn't the top guy yet in 97). Weren't the fans during each of the corresponding eras, also a mix of adults and kids (though may be in differing proportions)? Why did these guys never get booed heavily by one section of the fans then? Don't tell me it wasn't cool to boo them but it's cool to boo Cena - that is just stupid!
Why then does Cena get booed by one section of fans? Isn't there something wrong somewhere? Has the top face of the WWE/F ever been booed as heavily as Cena, and for so long? I think not.
You get my point?

And even if Hogan DID get booed at some point in the early-mid 90s, it still proves my other point - that after a certain point any character become stale, at least according to some fans.
And how do you know this is the right time for WWE to be PG? I am not saying this is the wrong time - I am just asking you how you can assert that it is the right time? Why wasn't it the right time 10 years ago? Also, wasn't the time more right 5 years ago (when Cena hardly got a few boos except at events like ECW's ONS)? Do you have some data to back this? Or is it the right time only because you think so?
Lastly, have you observed that the WWE has slowly been turning away from PG in 2011? Very slowly, but they are doing it? So would you say now that it is the right time to turn a bit away, or would you criticize them?
 
Maybe I am misinformed about what I said in my last paragraph.

And yet, I completely disagree about what you said regarding Cena fans knowing how to separate their own likes and dislikes and Cena haters not knowing it. So every Cena fan is an intelligent fellow, sane and practical, while every Cena hater is an idiot who doesn't understand the business. Dude I am sorry but you are only pretending to be practical here. You should admit that you simply love Cena to the point where you can't bear criticism against him. I am not against that, but just admit it.

You may be right about some Cena haters being blind to practicality. But to brand all Cena haters as blind and stupid and by implication all Cena fans as intelligent is simply ridiculous. I am not putting down Cena - all I wanted to say to the Cena haters was in fact, that, if they really thought Cena being the face of the company was such a bad idea, they should blame it on the WWE and not on Cena.

And oh, btw, even in the Attitude Era (which I can see you disliked), there were calls for more family-friendly and inclusive programming, from many quarters. And yet the WWE/F did its most successful business ever, in that era. Why? I am not from the USA so I am unaware of social trends in the USA as such. Do you mean to imply that society during the late 90s was okay with adult content and many actually loved it, and today the society wishes to revert to more family-friendly entertainment? I don't think so, as I said, even in the Attitude Era the parents and many other entities wanted the WWF to tone down, but they didn't and they were hyper successful.

In response to your comment that I am misinformed, I wish to ask you this - was Sammartino ever booed heavily (I don't know, maybe you do). was Hogan ever booed as the top face? Probably not. Though I think some of the crowd used to go dead on him during the later stages of his epic face run (early-mid 90s)? Did Austin ever get booed as the top face (don't tell me 2001, he was heel then). No he didn't. This I can confirm because I watched all of his run as top face (and don't tell me 1997 because he wasn't the top guy yet in 97). Weren't the fans during each of the corresponding eras, also a mix of adults and kids (though may be in differing proportions)? Why did these guys never get booed heavily by one section of the fans then? Don't tell me it wasn't cool to boo them but it's cool to boo Cena - that is just stupid!
You get my point?

And even if you say that Hogan DID get booed at some point in the early-mid 90s, it still proves my other point - that after a certain point any character become stale, at least according to some fans.
And how do you know this is the right time for WWE to be PG? I am not saying this is the wrong time - I am just asking you how you can assert that it is the right time? Why wasn't it the right time 10 years ago? Also, wasn't the time more right 5 years ago (when Cena hardly got a few boos except at events like ECW's ONS)? Do you have some data to back this? Or is it the right time only because you think so?
Lastly, have you observed that the WWE has slowly been turning away from PG in 2011? Very slowly, but they are doing it? So would you say now that it is the right time to turn a bit away, or would you criticize them?
The majority of Cena fans on here have a more intelligent argument than the Cena haters. Go back and look. Cena fans generally say "most wrestlers say Cena is good and he draws, thus he's good" Cena haters generally say "I don't like him, change his character". What do you want me to do? Give you a spreadsheet of the types of arguments in a statistical form? I don't love Cena to a point to where I can't stand criticism, I understand why WWE is doing what they do and it makes me wanna bang my head against the wall when people are so stupid as to think their individual opinion is more imporatant than what makes sense for the company and to bitch when the company does what's best for them. Again, I own NO Cena merchandise. Nothing, no DVDs, no shirts, nothing. I've spent probably 2,000 dollars on ROH in the past 7 years or so and only about 100 on WWE. I'm not some kid who loves Cena, I've been watching wrestling for a loooong time, I've been in a ring, I've talked to Harley Race and Terry Funk, I've helped take down the ROH set and ring. I'm not a bias WWE/Cena fan, I'm just able to seperate my opinion from a good decision the WWE should make. If I don't like what the WWE does, I at least understand why they did it and am smart enough to not bitch about it. Bitching about the WWE pushing Cena is like bitching that Coke isn't changed to light soda because you like light soda more. It's stupid beyond belief to bitch about something that makes sense for a company to do because it's not what YOU want.

What are you basing the WWE's success in the attitude era off of? Ratings? That's outdated. The attitude era changed with the times. Jerry Springer was popular then too. Plus WCW was hot, there was no UFC. Today WWE has restrictions due to Benoit, there is no WCW to help business in general grow, and there is UFC taking viewers, the internet and more channels segmenting the viewers even more. Just a lot more competition and things WWE has to deal with now. Not only that, but again, you're using a stupid ass argument. We aren't even talking about the attitude era. Are you saying that WWE should go back to being like the attitude era? Which would kill them financially after Benoit? What are you saying? Why are we even talking about it?

Also don't be so dumb to think that it's not cool to boo Cena. The audience isn't at all the same as it was for Sammartino, Hogan, or Austin. The audience was more uniform. One type of character got over with that audience one way or another. No you have about 75-85% mainstream and 25-15% smarks. So yea, for that small, SMALL segment of the audience, it is cool to boo Cena. In Sammartino's era, the WHOLE AUDIENCE felt the same way about pro wrestling. In Hogan's era the WHOLE AUDIENCE felt the same way about pro wrestling. In the Attitude era the WHOLE AUDIENCE cheered anti heros. In today's audience, you have a segmented audience that either loves to boo or loves to cheer absolute faces.

Think about this too. If 15-25 percent of the audience actually hated Cena, wouldn't that hurt sales? They don't, so they must actually like to boo him. If they do actually like to boo him, then that 15-25 percent is actually a lot lower of a percent to the point that their opinion doesn't even matter. See what I'm saying? It's incredibly stupid to assume that the people who boo him don't like it because the fact that they're even booing him means he makes them feel an emotion. The fact that his segments get high ratings, the fact that him on the marquee sells out arenas, and the fact that he sells the most merchandise and has sustained this means they aren't disliking him in a "I'm not gonna watch anymore" kind of way.

If people actually hated Cena they wouldn't boo him, and they wouldn't show up, and WWE would lose money, and Vince would change the character. Instead 100% of the audience cares a lot one way or another about him and makes a ton of noise, buys a ton of tickets, and buys a ton of merchandise.

As for Hogan getting booed. Yea he did, and he also didn't draw anywhere near as well at that time in his career. WCW started losing money with Hogan, so they turned him heel and brought in the nWo and then started making money. Cena is getting some boos but he's also generating a ton of money. Which shows it's not the same kind of dislike. PLUS WCW was a different company with southern "rasslin" roots. Cena is still in the same company. It's not like Cena went to ROH. He's still in WWE.

It's the right time for WWE to be PG because if they didn't, the media would slaughter them and they'd lose money. It wasn't the right time 10 years ago because they were making money doing what they were doing. It's the right time because since they've been PG they've made more money each year.

WWE is a publicly traded company, this means you can look at their books. Look at their balance sheet and income statements, they've made more money each of the past 3 years. That's how I know going PG is the right move for WWE. Plus they have people who are way more knowledgeable in business than anyone on here and that's their decision. I trust that's the right way to go.

See what I mean? I look at WWE annual reports, I look at their balance sheet, I do things to see what they need/want as a COMPANY before bitching. Bitching simply because you don't like something is like a kid bitching because they don't wanna eat broccoli. Even if you don't like it, it may actually be a good thing. I'm smart enough to research these things and figure out WHY, not just bitch.

That's the difference between Cena fans (on here) in general and Cena haters (on here) in general.


Also, no it hasn't been turning away from PG. I don't know what the fuck show you've been watching. It may be more Pixar than Disney but it's still PG. Read their annual reports if you REALLY want to see where they're going. Don't believe bullshit internet reports.
 
What you Cena haters also seem to forget this is the same song over again. In the 80's and early 90's it was PG because that's what sold but at the same time they did edgy stuff as well. Piper hits Snucka with a coconut ( that was a real fucking coconut ), the barbershop incident ( that was real fucking glass Janetty went through), the cobra incident ( that was a real fucking snake ).

So you can stop using excuses like " the WWE is no longer edgy" or " now they're moving into a more edgier product" in your hate because the edge has always been there, they just know how to turn it on and turn it off like the birth of Nexus. They got killed for that bit remember, Danielson got fired for that remember ( and you pieces of shit blamed Cena for that too ) that was edgy.
 
I think another thing ppl don't realize too is that WWE being on the stock market changes EVERYTHING. Before if WWE does something really embarrassing, it's not going to hurt as much as if people holding a few shares goes "fuck this trashy tv show" and sells them all and the stock drops.

Again, something Cena haters don't think about. WWE is only acting in their own best interest, bitching about that because they aren't doing what you want is childish. At least understand why they are doing it and be more articulate when you complain and don't call for WWE to change things to how you want it. You sound like kids begging your parents to eat ice cream instead of vegetables.
 
Let's see if I can sort this out here...

People who reside on the extremes of this "Cena Rule/Cena Sucks" argument tend to destroy their own creditability constantly with their hyperbole about his PG era reign.
Not only that, they accuse the other side of exactly the same thing their doing themselves, and then claim innocence when it's pointed out to them.
It's like watching two children slap-fight and claim the other one started it while the adults role their eyes because YOUR BOTH WRONG.

Here's the deal with Cena...
He isn't the THE best wrestler or talker in WWE or the industry, but (until lately) he was the single more important wrestler to the WWE brand.
That's an important element of the resentment against Cena's ascension.

That doesn't mean he isn't doing his overall job well. He draws the WWE's target fanbase, he's been a good (corporate) ambassador, he sells their merch, probably smiles at the camera even when he doesn't want to and signs autographs when he's tired, not to mention he's been taking a decent amount of s**t from the vocal minority that's hated the guy for at least 6 years.
But let's but these judgement about Cena into perspective by someone who neither loves nor hates the guy:

1.) Cena is a mediocre pure wrestler, BUT a superior enough in-ring performer that can translate in big time matches.

2.) He's also a good promo worker BUT is often given corny or goofy things to say.

3.)He's a predictable character, BUT the majority of WWE characters are predictable anyway.

In other words, he's not terrible, but he's not awesome either.
He's constantly stuck in the middle--and that's where the WWE wants and needs him to be.
He's safe, middlebrow fun for children and causal who won't and don't demand him more for him.
And since the WWE have deemed children the biggest cog in their money making machine, he's been their poster boy.

The issue IWC "haters" have out of him if that they want more out of this persona of his if that's going to be the focal point of the show.
This element of "more" is what CM Punk is currently providing as an anti-establishment foil.
What his "haters" don't understand (or refuse to accept) is that he's unappealing to them by design.
What Cena's fanboys don't understand ( or refuse to accept ), is that it's perfectly logical for elements of the fanbase to reject Cena exactly as they do.
He doesn't provide what they want as entertainment so they're not going to like him.
He represents what is boring and cliche to them, so they're not going to like him.
And, no matter how much money Cena makes or pops he gets, it's not going to change everyone's mind.
And you know what, there's nothing wrong with thinking any of this about him.
The problem is everyone acting as though their personal thoughts about Cena are fact, when everything, even what I'm saying about him is an opinion. Nothing more.

Anyone who's not a complete idiot knows the following:

1.) All John Cena fans aren't brainwashed children or groupie women who only like them because they're the WWE's puppets.

2.) All John Cena "haters" aren't rabid, contrarian, bandwagon geeks who only like heels and are insecure with Cena's popularity.

If you hate John Cena, fine. If you like John Cena, fine.

What both sides need to realize is that they don't need each others' approval.
 
I believe most Cena-haters just hate him for the sake of hating him. He is where he is because of his hardwork. Hell, Ive heard people complain that the title shouldve been kept on Rey this past RAW cause he works his ass off for the company. What they fail to realize is that Cena works his ass off as well, probably even more. So cut him some slack.

on a side note SLYFOX, SANDY C & TWJC just tore SILROCK316 a new hole haha, THIS is entertainment at its best haha
 
I don't like Cena, I never have. Honestly his gimmick of a "rapper" had a lot do with it, but beyond that his character just never got to me in a way where I could cheer for him. I just couldn't get into him.
I won't deny he is charismatic, and knows how to work a crowd, he's also a decent in-ring performer for the most part.
Didn't really like him even when he had more of an edge, and less comedy. For me he's just one of those guys I will likely never be a fan of.
That being said I can't deny he hasn't entertained me, every match I see him getting his ass kicked, or seeing him get beat down, or make the sad face when he loses, makes me smile, and every now and then he's made me laugh out loud during a promo, because something he said was just so off the wall, or unexpected.

He's good, he may even be one of the greats.
I just don't like him,I doubt I ever will, but then again I said the same thing about Hogan. So, who knows?
 
Hell, even Hogan had 5 years between title runs(01-23-84 loss to the Iron Sheik to 04-02-89 with a win over Savage)

Either I'm not understanding your point or you don't know what you're talking about. Hogan won the title on 1-23-84 and lost it on 2-5-88 before winning his second title from Savage on 4-2-89. That would be four consecutive years as uninterrupted champion. You're Cena math equation suddenly doesn't hold as much water now.

Why shouldn't the number one guy be in the title picture often? Your question about putting guys over or making new stars seems kind of silly seeing as how he spent the second half of 2010 putting Wade Barrett over without the title being involved in the story. Why should we overlook that?
 
I think that "we" hate cena (i used to, but the guy grown big on me the last couple of years) is because he is a representation of "everything correct and rightful".

We hate the portrait of the John Cena character (specially, super cena). Its a classic move to hate the mainstream, even at one point, IWC hated the rock, austin, hhh, taker, etc. And its usually when the wrestler is the face or the top guy of the company.

Lets be honest, its not about the 5 moves, its not about the titles, its not about what the character reflects. Its about being against the mass, against the mainstream.

I neglected Cena character for a long time, until i started to look at him without taking care of his fans. And i must admit, i love the guy now. He shown that he can put on amazing matches, he can go mic-to-mic against ANYONE, and he doesnt care to put ppl over.

If any of us were vince, i bet that we would use Cena the same way. The guy is a machine for this business.

And he has something that its the holy grail to this business...REACTION. Thats the best asset for a wrestler, if you get reaction (good or bad, cheers or boos) you are on.

Cena is a guy that get crown reaction everytime he is out there, half / half, the entire building against him, the entire building behind him. NOBODY is indifferent to Cena.
 
Thats what we hate.

And if anyone needs to come to anything, its YOU. You need to realize you are a band wagon wrestling fan. As you stated YOU have liked all the top guys in the history of wrestling. Meaning you don't ever think outside the box. You probably root for which ever sports teams win their respective titles the years before.

Please don't ever speak for me. Ever. Thanks.

I actually don't hate John Cena, and I'm well past being a teenage wrestling fan, so you and the OP can both stop speaking for people... I would never presume to tell you what you are (besides a total jerk), so it would be really cool if you could not tell other people what they think and feel.

Some people don't like John Cena because it's fun to hate John Cena. They want to either be in the "let's go Cena" crowd, or in the opposing "Cena sucks" crowd. Some people don't like John Cena because they feel he's always champion and they are sick of seeing him everywhere all the time. And some people don't like John Cena because they think he can't wrestle and is a poor example of what a true professional wrestler should be. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I personally don't hate John Cena. I do get a little sick of the predictable move set, but that has existed in so many different ways throughout the history of the industry, that I'm not about to cry about it now. Cena is much more an in-ring competitor than Hulk Hogan was. But that doesn't make either of them BAD pro wrestlers. They pop crowds, and that's what a main eventer that carries the company needs to do. They sell the t-shirts, put the butts in the seats, and get the people excited for the main event spots. I love Daniel Bryan, and he's a fantastic talent, but there's a reason why he's not WWE CHampion in 2011. John Cena has put on fantastic matches, and been at the forefront of some of the best moments in WWE history. Who cares how many titles he has won? The count used to mean something, but it's a different day. If/when he passes up Ric Flair I'm sure a lot of people will be upset, but it has to happen some day. Cena is also one of the only talents to create and grow his entire legacy in one single promotion. Hogan was god in the WWF, but later on he made himself known through a whole new generation using WCW, and later on the WWE. Now he's in TNA trying to do the same thing... Cena has stayed true the whole time, and it's tough staying in that character, dedicated to selling that style every single night. I don't love everything that comes out of him, but I respect the hell out of the guy.

Also, do you know what happened to the last person to tell Sly he was wrong? Remember when Vince's limo blew up? And when the set fell on top of him? Vince thought Sly was wrong too... Just a thought.
 
the thing i think most people fail to remember was when Cena did the rap thing it was good like him or hate him u laughed. especially when rock came back and cena did his 1st response it was great. it was a look back for his older fans and it caught new 1ns. and u have to admire his ability to transition into this pg era he took his more swear prone character and appealed to younger audiences alot of ppl couldnt do that. and to continue feuds with ppl like edge who had rated r sex celebrations and got thrown into the long island sound who went into his home and slapped his father is just top grade. but u ppl that hate cena have ur heads so far up ur backsides that u cant give a deserving man his props and that is childish grow up
 
I dislike John Cena, and no, I'm not wrong. Deal with it.

Cheesy, corny, over-the-top, childish - all valid criticisms. A sloppy worker - another valid criticism.

Do I hate him? No, he's too good to really hate. But, I don't hate just to hate. I have reasons, and they're valid. Some fans have a hard time dealing with that, and it's unfortunate. I'm not wrong for disliking John Cena, and no matter how blue some of you get in the face due to screaming about it, that won't change.

I also don't buy into this "biggest draw = best wrestler" nonsense. It means you're the bigger star, no question. It doesn't mean you're automatically more talented.
 
Calling someone a Cena Fan is a terrible insult to begin with, and that comes from someone that doesn't see the big deal with Cena anyway. Cena is the face of the WWE right now because of a few things. His Work Ethic, which is great and I wish more wrestlers had that work ethic, is the big one. He puts in the hours promoting the WWE. His look is another one, he is the clean cut champion that has mass appeal, no issues there. He is evolving his style in the ring, if he didn't then the ones that say he can't wrestle are absolutely correct, but he adds a move on TV every so often that he never did before and it makes sense in the context of the match. I find his character to be fairly boring, but that is personal taste.

I understand where the "I hate Cena" group comes from but it isn't the best spot to be arguing from. However Cena has done his job with you, he made you care. He failed with me to a degree, I only have a passing interest in the matches or the promos that he does, because the promo's put out Cena's Character and I don't find that character appealing to listen to. His interviews outside are fine and I will watch them but not the ones on TV.

So to recap and paraphrase, those that care about Cena are the ones that are his fans regardless of whether you say he can't wrestle or you worship the ground he walks on. He does his job and gets reactions. All those that "hate" him have been played. Have fun with coming to terms with that.
 
The biggest thing tht pisses me off about the Cena Haters is when they say that he "only has 5 moves". Do you not watch the matches? Yes he has a 5 move finisher that caps off his matces, but that's 1/10 of the match tops. No, he doesn't do the 720 McTwisty flips off of the top of the HIAC, but how many of those wrestlers don't fizzle out into mid-card obscurity? I can think of 1 1/2 (currently) off the top of my head. Rey and we'll see about John Morrison.

He's a brawler, created in the same ilk as Austin, Rock, Hogan, Undertaker, HHH, Barrett, Riley, Big Show, Zeke, Kane, Sheamus, I could go on. He's not a technician like Angle, Benoit, Swagger and never will be (who IMO aren't even in the same hemisphere collectively as a guy like Austin or Rock), but he is far from a 1 trick pony. Not only that, but it seems like he takes nearly every bump for 90% of every match that he's in. How incredible is it that he's still out there night in and night out.

His ending sequence is a little dumb, but it's RECOGNIZABLE. Everytime that he hits that first shoulder block you know somethings going to happen. Same thing w/ Orton here's his "5 moves of doom":

1. Clothesline to opponent
2. 2nd clothesline while having those outbursts of anger
3. Ducks opponents' clothesline and while they bounce off the ropes, Randy catches them with a powerslam
4. The opponent will somehow crawl onto the ring apron and Orton will proceed to come to them and kick them in the stomach through the bottom and middle rope. Then he will grab them and do his rope aided DDT.
5. Lastly Randy will "slither" into his "coiling" state ready to deliver the RKO. Once he hits it, 1,2,3 the match is over

Rey Mysterio is similar as well. Nearly every popular face has these. Don't come w/ this ridiculous argument.

I am in no way saying you have to like Cena or have to hate him, hell, I don't fall into either of those categories. I'm pretty much indifferent. All that I ask is that you have an INTELLIGENT argument to bring to the table.

Cheesy, corny, over-the-top, childish - all valid criticisms. A sloppy worker - another valid criticism.

I can see how some would view him as cheesy or corny, he certainly is sometimes, but over-the-top? They're PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS!!!! Over-the-top is the name of the game! I also have no idea where you come to the conclusion that he's a sloppy worker. That boggles my mind. Please, enlighten me.
 
I can see how some would view him as cheesy or corny, he certainly is sometimes, but over-the-top? They're PROFESSIONAL WRESTLERS!!!! Over-the-top is the name of the game! I also have no idea where you come to the conclusion that he's a sloppy worker. That boggles my mind. Please, enlighten me.

You nailed it, your entire post is 100% accurate (at least to me). But this part is essential.

Wrestling IS over the top, everything about wrestling is over the top, larger than life, and surreal. Doesnt matter if its NJPW, NOAH, BJW, ECW, WWE, TNA, ROH.... wrestling IS something that wont happen in a real enviroment or a real life situation.
 
First of all Cena fans piss me off a lot more than Cena does but anyway I use to love him when he first came in as a heel and was rapping and throwing chocolate bars into the crowd. Ha funny thing is the crowd reaction for him was the total opposite of what it is now. He use to get a small percentage of cheers from older fans haha oh how it has changed.

The thing is I wouldn't call myself a hater but I went from a total hardcore fan to not watching for a while until just recently with the CM PUNK angle getting me back full time for now. It's not his fault but he was at the top when I began to get really bored with WWE. I would blame them much more than him because you shove anyone down the audiences throats constantly and they will become stale if they are doing the same old stuff over and over. I got bored with HHH too when he was constantly champion for a while.

Cena did become incredibly boring and corny to how edgy and exciting he was when he first came in. Again not totally his fault but when his promos were aimed at kids and his in-ring work was constantly the same it got old fast and there is a reason he gets boo'd everywhere by decent size of the crowd even though he is the main babyface of the company.

I can't stand on here though how some people are putting Cena in their top 5 of all time. It's just nuts. And people trying to overcompensate for him because of the amount of haters he has is just horrible to listen to such as people saying oh well atleast he's trying new moves now. Really? That makes him great becauase he's trying some new moves after all this time.

Now again I respect him and think he is good on the mic and is decent and can be very good in certain matches but people should get off his nutss a little just because the WWE hype machine has built him up as SUPERCENA. I can't waitttttt for his heel turn because he finally won't be used for getting kids to like him and we can see his real talent shine through.
 

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