Carson Palmer close to being dealt to OAK

[tripolie atche]

Rotoworld.com

The Raiders and Bengals are close to a trade that would send Carson Palmer to Oakland, according to FOX's Jay Glazer.

Per Glazer, the deal is expected to be completed by today's 4pm ET deadline with Cincy receiving a first-round pick in 2012 and a future conditional pick. He adds that Hue Jackson's close, personal relationship with Bengals owner Mike Brown is what got the Bengals to move off their stubborn stance. Jackson was the Bengals' wide receivers coach from 2004-06. Palmer may need a week to get his feet under him, but the 31-year-old will give an Oakland passing game that was set to go in the tank under Kyle Boller some life. Hold your Raiders wideouts.

if this does go through WOOOOOOOOOW didn't think Mike Brown would budge but I'm glad he finally had the brains to do so (this is the same guy who turned down Washington's offer of TWO first-round picks for Ocho a few years back)

for OAK, they now do not have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th round picks in 2012, plus the 2013 pick is a conditional - it can become a first rounder based on playtime, other incentives.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Rotoworld.com


if this does go through WOOOOOOOOOW didn't think Mike Brown would budge but I'm glad he finally had the brains to do so (this is the same guy who turned down Washington's offer of TWO first-round picks for Ocho a few years back)

for OAK, they now do not have a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th round picks in 2012, plus the 2013 pick is a conditional - it can become a first rounder based on playtime, other incentives.

I can get why Brown's now open to trading Palmer since his threats aren't empty (I do agree with you though that Brown was an idiot for not taking the two 1st rounders for Ochocinco, although, as a Redskins fan, I'm glad he didn't). That being said, it doesn't look like Al Davis's son fell far from the tree. Palmer isn't worth two first-rounders (well, he might be if Jackson feels comfortable with him). If I was in Oakland's GM, the most I'd offer is a second and either a fourth or a conditional second.

Anyway, how did Oakland lose their 2nd and 7th rounders? I know the 4th's for Jason Campbell, the 1st's presumably for Palmer, and the 3rd is for taking Pryor in the supplemental.

Edit: Just remembered the 7th was for Aaron Curry.

 

[gd]

Not a fan of the move at all for Oakland considering Palmer hasn't been good in years. And they're stuck dealing a first round pick this year because they've wasted all of their other picks somehow (traded 2nd and last years 7th for New England's 3rd and 4th last year). Of course when you're left with only Kyle Boller and Pryor I understand why you may be a bit desparate.

Bengals make out pretty good in this deal, except for Mike Brown looks like a douchebag.

 

[Big Sexy]

Mike Brown actually did something right for once and Al Davis's son proved that he was focusing way too much on his dads last 10 years as an owner and not his first 30. The Raiders needed a qb and Palmer was the best option available but not for potentially two first round picks and at the worst a 1st and 2nd. At most I would have given up the 2013 second rounder that could have turned into a first if the Raiders won a playoff game. Giving up the 2012 first round pick on top of that went beyond overkill. Unless the Raiders somehow make the Super Bowl this year then this was a bad trade on their part.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

At first glance this sounds like the worst trade initially ever made. I don't know what the Raiders expect to accomplish with Palmer. He has been below average for most of the time since his injury. He is coming in cold during the middle of the season. Raiders don't have any WR that can make him look that good consistently. I understand they have a QB need but this seems like too high of a cost for a guy that was basically sitting out from his current team. If the Raiders don't make the playoffs one of the next two years the fans should revolt.

 

[Born To Fly]

Cincinnati fleeced Oakland.

Depending on how the Raiders do, the Bengals could get two first-round picks. Sure, Oakland needs to make the playoffs, but anything is possible out of the AFC West. If the Raiders don't make the playoffs, it's a second-round selection.

Palmer is a serviceable quarterback, but who knows how he kept in shape during his 'retirement.' He's definitely better than anything the Raiders have or had in a while, so it's worth a shot for Oakland to see what it can do with an actual quarterback under center.

 

[jmt225]

I see the Raiders getting a lot of flack for this.

Meh, I like the move, personally. They're telling their fans that they want to win right now with the team they have. They've been building long enough, and it's time to turn things around. And the fact is, despite Cincy's play the last couple of years, Carson Palmer is a very good quarterback, and at times even great. If he can stay healthy and isn't too rusty, then this absolutely will turn out to be the right move for the Raiders.

Draft picks are highly overrated, anyway, if you ask me. If you know what you're doing, you can still have a fantastic draft without a 1st Round draft pick. That's a fact.

 

[Big Sexy]

Draft picks are highly overrated, anyway, if you ask me. If you know what you're doing, you can still have a fantastic draft without a 1st Round draft pick. That's a fact.

Yes but you can't have a good draft without a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick and that's what the Raiders are left with in 2012 after trading for Palmer. I don't mind giving up one first round pick but two is too many considering you have no clue what you're going to get out of the almost 32 year old Palmer. If the Raiders make an AFC Title game in the next two years with Palmer at qb then it was a good move but I don't see that happening.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

I see the Raiders getting a lot of flack for this.

Meh, I like the move, personally. They're telling their fans that they want to win right now with the team they have. They've been building long enough, and it's time to turn things around. And the fact is, despite Cincy's play the last couple of years, Carson Palmer is a very good quarterback, and at times even great. If he can stay healthy and isn't too rusty, then this absolutely will turn out to be the right move for the Raiders.

Draft picks are highly overrated, anyway, if you ask me. If you know what you're doing, you can still have a fantastic draft without a 1st Round draft pick. That's a fact.

No, jmt, just...no. Granted, you're probably looking at this from your the perspective of the Saints, who have been great in their acquisition of free agents, but where would your team be without the likes of Robert Meachem, Sedrick Ellis, and Malcolm Jenkins? In order to field a good team, draft picks are essential in today's league, especially given how cheaply you can now sign them with the rookie wage scale. Teams that mortgage their future by trading away draft picks will not succeed. Look no further than my team, the Washington Redskins.

With the Carson Palmer trade, the Raiders are taking a huge gamble that will definitely have them hurting in two or three years even if they make it deep into the playoffs this year. If they don't even make it to the playoffs, they'll be a laughingstock with no significant picks in next year's draft.

 

[jmt225]

Yes but you can't have a good draft without a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round pick and that's what the Raiders are left with in 2012 after trading for Palmer. I don't mind giving up one first round pick but two is too many considering you have no clue what you're going to get out of the almost 32 year old Palmer. If the Raiders make an AFC Title game in the next two years with Palmer at qb then it was a good move but I don't see that happening.

I see what you're saying, and I did miss that part of the OP about the Raiders not having many other draft picks, but honestly... how hard is it to get those 3rd rounder and 4 rounder draft picks back? All you have to do is trade future draft picks to get them back, and keep doing so every year until you really don't need them anymore and are ready to start the draft over from scratch.

Plus, there's free agency for what you're not able to acquire in the draft.

No, jmt, just...no. Granted, you're probably looking at this from your the perspective of the Saints, who have been great in their acquisition of free agents, but where would your team be without the likes of Robert Meachem, Sedrick Ellis, and Malcolm Jenkins?

Bad example, Tdigs. Sedrick Ellis hasn't produced shit, and Malcolm Jenkins played a big part in losing last week's game by blowing a coverage. Jenkins is probably our best defensive player, but our defense is still one of the worst in the NFL. Robert Meachem, though, has been a good acquisition, but not as much as Marques Colston (7th Round Draft pick), Lance Moore (Undrafted Free Agent), Jimmy Graham (3rd Round Draft pick), and Pierre Thomas (Undrafted Free Agent).

Look at the Patriots also... do they have make big acquisitions in the first round? Nope, and they've been a Super Bowl contender every year for the past decade.

With the Carson Palmer trade, the Raiders are taking a huge gamble that will definitely have them hurting in two or three years even if they make it deep into the playoffs this year. If they don't even make it to the playoffs, they'll be a laughingstock with no significant picks in next year's draft.

What's certain is that they most likely wouldn't have had the chance to make the playoffs with Kyle Boller at Quarterback, but with Carson Palmer, they at least have hope. If it doesn't pan out, then yes... it was the wrong move, but you can't win without taking big risk like this. You either settle with what you got and figure you'll make good draft picks the next few years, or you take big risks like what the Raiders are doing so you can win right now. The Raiders have been trying the former for way too long now, and it hasn't been panning out... so now it's time to take that big risk while you got a team that looks like it can win as long as they have a decent QB under center.

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

Bad example, Tdigs. Sedrick Ellis hasn't produced shit, and Malcolm Jenkins played a big part in losing last week's game by blowing a coverage. Jenkins is probably our best defensive player, but our defense is still one of the worst in the NFL. Robert Meachem, though, has been a good acquisition, but not as much as Marques Colston (7th Round Draft pick), Lance Moore (Undrafted Free Agent), Jimmy Graham (3rd Round Draft pick), and Pierre Thomas (Undrafted Free Agent).

Uh, Sedrick Ellis led your team in sacks last year. You're trying to discount Jenkins's value to your team by focusing on one game even though you admit he's probably your best defensive player. You agree with my point on Meachem.

Look at the Patriots also... do they have make big acquisitions in the first round? Nope, and they've been a Super Bowl contender every year for the past decade.

jmt, this is just flat-out wrong. Let's look at who the Patriots have drafted in the first round during the past 7 years: Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney, Brandon Meriweather, Jerod Mayo, Devin McCourty, and Nate Solder. Logan Mankins is regarded by many to be the best guard in the league and was even franchised by the Patriots last season. Jerod Mayo and Devin McCourty are both All-Pro defensive starters for the Patriots (although I think Mayo's injured at the moment). Lastly, Nate Solder is leaps and bounds better than any offensive tackle that was drafted this year. That leaves you with two guys: Laurence Maroney (a bust) and Brandon Meriweather, a Pro-Bowler who was cut by the Patriots.

You definitely need another team to prove your point because the Pats aren't it.

What's certain is that they most likely wouldn't have had the chance to make the playoffs with Kyle Boller at Quarterback, but with Carson Palmer, they at least have hope. If it doesn't pan out, then yes... it was the wrong move, but you can't win without taking big risk like this. You either settle with what you got and figure you'll make good draft picks the next few years, or you take big risks like what the Raiders are doing so you can win right now. The Raiders have been trying the former for way too long now, and it hasn't been panning out... so now it's time to take that big risk while you got a team that looks like it can win as long as they have a decent QB under center.

Then they need to get a better scouting department. They didn't have a first-rounder this year and they won't have one next year, but, over the same seven-year time span as the Patriots, first-round selections netted the Raiders Michael Huff and Darren McFadden. Even with one of the biggest first-round busts of all time, do you think the Raiders would go back in time to trade away their Huff and McFadden picks for proven players from other teams?

 

[jmt225]

Uh, Sedrick Ellis led your team in sacks last year.

And where exactly did that rank in the NFL among leaders in sacks?

The Saints hardly ever get pressure on the QB from their front four alone. It's one of the reasons why our defense has been so horrible. Ellis sacks came because of help from the blitz, not because he's some huge force to be reckon with one-on-one.

This guy was expected to become the type of player who would attract double teams, but it didn't come close to turning out that way, which is why I consider him a major disappointment.

You're trying to discount Jenkins's value to your team by focusing on one game even though you admit he's probably your best defensive player.

Just because he's the best defensive player on a HORRIBLE defense doesn't exactly mean he's very good. Without him we would still suck all the same. After all, we did win the Super Bowl his rookie season, when he wasn't on the field much. Darren Sharper carried our defense that year.

You agree with my point on Meachem.

I like Meachem a lot, yes, but he's still our 4th option in the passing game at this point, if not 5th if I want to include Sproles.

jmt, this is just flat-out wrong. Let's look at who the Patriots have drafted in the first round during the past 7 years: Logan Mankins, Laurence Maroney, Brandon Meriweather, Jerod Mayo, Devin McCourty, and Nate Solder. Logan Mankins is regarded by many to be the best guard in the league and was even franchised by the Patriots last season. Jerod Mayo and Devin McCourty are both All-Pro defensive starters for the Patriots (although I think Mayo's injured at the moment). Lastly, Nate Solder is leaps and bounds better than any offensive tackle that was drafted this year. That leaves you with two guys: Laurence Maroney (a bust) and Brandon Meriweather, a Pro-Bowler who was cut by the Patriots.

Okay, point taken. The Patriots draft gets shit on every year, and since I don't follow the team closely, of course I'm not going to know the specifics of their offensive line (plus I don't pay attention to pro bowl or all pro selections unless they involve Saints players). I should have done some research, my bad.

You definitely need another team to prove your point because the Pats aren't it.

Well, the Saints prove my point already, man. They won the Super Bowl, and their 1st Round draft picks the few years leading up to that (Reggie Bush, Malcolm Jenkins, Sedrick Ellis, Robert Meachem, Jammal Brown, Will Smith, Johnathan Sullivan) all had very little to do with the Saints success.

The fact is, the Saints took a HUGE risk signing Drew Brees, and it worked out. That signing, more than any draft pick, is why the Saints won the Super Bowl. Now, I'm not saying the Raiders are winning a Super Bowl because of the signing of Carson Palmer, but if they want a shot at doing so, then they need a solid, experienced quarterback, and that's what Carson Palmer is.

Even with one of the biggest first-round busts of all time, do you think the Raiders would go back in time to trade away their Huff and McFadden picks for proven players from other teams?

Obviously not since they could then look over the draft and pick guys who turned out to be great.

I'm not arguing that 1st Round draft picks aren't important, they most certainly are, but you can go a year without having one and its impact won't last forever like a lot of people seem to believe. That's the only point I'm making here. I'm positive there are plenty of situations I can find where a team's draft ended up being a disappointment, and they still had a good year regardless.

 

[BooCocky]

High draft picks aren't always that important. You can build a team with low draft pick. Look at the Steelers for instance. Harrison is a undrafted free agent. Keisel is a 7th round draft pick. Smith is a 4th round draft pick. They are all important players on the Steelers. I'm sure there is more but I don't really care. I think you can go a year without high draft picks if you have an excellent scouting department.

The Raiders gave up a lot but they want to win now. They realized they needed a decent QB. They had a good team with Campbell but there would have been a huge drop off with Boller behind center. Trading for Palmer showed they wanted to win now. A trade like this may look bad now but you can't really judge it for a few years. So I guess in the grand scheme of things it wasn't really that bad of a deal.