Can WWE Pass the 1M PPV Buys Mark without Part Timers?

[pepentorresHHH]

I already talked about no part timers and the biggest match wwe could without them in another thread noe its time to talk about if it would sell

WM 26, the last WM that didn't relied heavily on the part timers did a PPV buy of 885K..... Taker and Michaels were full timers back then (Taker had been a full timer since the Summerslam of 09), HHH competed on his last WM as a full timer with Sheamus, John Cena and Batista clashed for the WWE title, Jericho and Edge fought for the World title (Y2J had been a full timer since late 07)

The Year after that, WM 27 relied on Part Timers and did...... 1,052,000 buys! With Taker and HHH coming back for their streak match, the Rock hosted the event.... Trish even made a return herself!

WM 28 did 1,217,000 with Cena Rock I, Punk Jericho for thr belt and Taker HHH II, all in all 4 out of the 6 men involved in the main events were part timers

WM 29 recently did 1,048,000 buys but with the increased price it still managed to become the highest selling PPV in WWE history..... Cena Took on The Rock again... Punk Took on Taker again and ..... HHH took on Brock in this years battle of the part timers

Granted other WMs have passed the 1M mark, WM 17, 20, 21, 23 and 24 did it.... But the roster is waaay too different and not as over as it was in those years....

If lets say, WM 30 was only full timers.... Would a Cena Punk or Cena Orton main evented card pass the 1M mark?

Discus....

 

[Nate DaMac]

Not at this time. Without The Rock or a return from Austin, the current roster doesn't have the star power to draw that many buys, even if you add Taker, Triple H, and Lesnar.

However, I'm only speaking on this particular moment in time. You never know, someone could turn around and become the next Steve Austin in the next 6 months.

 

[Mustang Sally]

To pass 1 million, they need the returning legends; no question about it. There's a product mix necessary in putting together a WM card to get that many buys and it's always going to be hard to achieve it.

First, they need the top full-time guys to have compelling matches: If John Cena and C.M. Punk don't have match-ups that excite, it won't matter if Rock or Austin show up; the company won't get the million. Too, as long as Undertaker is willing to work, he'll be a draw, but if they think they can match him up with anyone less than a legend (or a legend-in-the-making), they're kidding themselves. In fact, if they ever told him he'd be facing Brodus Clay or Curt Hawkins at WM, we'd see whether he would even bother to come, regardless of however many mega-bucks they're willing to throw at him.

But the returning legends are the icing on the cake, giving us something we don't see on a regular basis.... stirring current and past fans to buy the event to see them. Even at that, there aren't many of those legends left who can still go, are there? We'd buy WM for Rock or Austin, but who else would make it an attractive buy?

Sting?....for sure. I still have hopes for him. Goldberg?.....maybe with the proper build-up.

Anyone else? Don't think so.

So, the answer is no......without part-timers, they don't attain 1 million buys.

 

[King Patrick Star]

The real question should be, “Can WWE NOT pass the $1,000,000 PPV buys mark with only part timers??” That would be an extraordinary card, don’t you think. Forget about who can still go, just have them go. Give us all the matches we always wanted, headlined by Hulk Hogan vs. Ric Flair. To make up for the lack of youth, throw in lots of run-ins. If WrestleMania is the SuperBowl of Wrestling, make this Legends night the ProBowl of Wrestling. Life is too short and Vince McMahon’s money is too long. Spread the wealth and bring back the Legends…the Legends of WrestleMania!!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm not really sure if they can or not at this time. Even though Undertaker is a part timer, to say the very, very most, he's someone that's still a frequent aspect of WrestleMania so, natural, his appearances aren't as fresh as they once were. How could they be, after all? Rock & Lesnar do help deliver bigger numbers, that can't be argued.

I think it's possible for WWE to do a million or more buys without the part timers if they're able to put the right wrestlers in the right spots with the right feuds. Right now, for instance, John Cena vs. Daniel Bryan is a highly anticipated match. I don't think it'll help SummerSlam to a million buys because a lot of fans are still speculative & uncertain as to what WWE has planned for Bryan. A LOT of fans want to see Bryan made into a long term, main event player but, right now, they're not getting their hopes up because they keep expecting Vince to derail the push at anytime. The same thing happened during CM Punk's first few months as WWE Champion. Some of his segments on Raw didn't draw well partially, I believe, because fans were initially reluctant to really invest in Punk due to the feeling that Vince could & would kill the push at anytime. Once enough time had passed and they saw WWE intended to make Punk a long term top star, the numbers for his segments improved significantly. Sometimes, Bryan's segments on Raw draw well and sometimes below expectations, again like what we saw with Punk initially. However, also like Punk, I think Bryan's segments will be consistent top draws on Raw if WWE stays the course with him.

I think consistent & strong pushes for fresh babyfaces & heels in strong spots MIGHT help. I'm sure it can be difficult to decide who gets pushed & who doesn't. If you go by the reactions of fans alone, it can be a bit confusing as fans can be fickle. A guy could get a monster pop in Detroit one week and you might be able to hear crickets chirp the next week in Denver. I believe that if they wanted to top the 1 million mark at a ppv without some of the part time guys, they really need to scour the roster for people who they THINK has the potential, get firmly behind them and give them a strong push rather than push them for a month or so before suddenly killing it because the audience isn't responding as quickly as you'd like them.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

No.

The size of the regular PPV audience simply isn't that big, so they need to attract the casual/older fan.

Keep in mind that we're in a transitional time period right now, moving from a traditional "mastadon vince" era to more reliance on independent wrestlers.

What this means is there are less draws across the board to reach that one million buys mark.

It could be a different story if all the guys WWE spent the mid 2000's building up in Batista, Lashley, Lesnar and Hardy were all still full time with the company, but that's neither here, there nor part unknown.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I don't think they can pass 1mil with the part timers they currently have been using for the last two years. Look at the drop off for this year's WM. The Rock and Lesnar bumps have clearly lost steam. The price is frustratingly high for people and streaming should only be getting more popular. Their best bet is to run a convincing storyline that will make people think they are seeing the UT for the last time or find a way to stop people from stealing the show.

 

[Redemption-2012]

I would say no chance in hell. If you look at the past 3 WrestleManias, there have returning legends such as The Rock, The Undertaker, Triple H, Brock Lesnar etc...probably Stone Cold for next WrestleMania. Without these names how can they reach 1000,000? they can't. Those names are selling WrestleMania obviously not to mention their full time top draws in John Cena, CM Punk and maybe soon Daniel Bryan. John Cena is a huge draw and is an integral part of WrestleMania or any show for that matter. CM Punk has become an integral part to any PPV selling too.

With the current roster, there is no way they could reach that mark, let alone pass that mark. I believe that one day yes they might be able to. Without the top part time names I mentioned, who are you left with? John Cena and CM Punk. Those are the only two top names who could actually sell any PPV. Imagine those two names being gone for 6 months or so and see how PPV buys and ratings suffer.

I fully expect WrestleMania XXX to be filled with more part time names such as The Undertaker, The Rock, Brock Lesnar etc...These names are what is selling WrestleMania to that point every year. The main event card is probably once again filled with part timers also. Your probably looking at:
John Cena vs The Undertaker
CM Punk vs Stone Cold
The Rock vs Brock Lesnar
Those matches alone will sell WrestleMania and not the undercard or the World title matches for that matter.

 

[CMBryan94]

Only Cena vs Punk to be honest. In a hardcore match

 

[Magic Mark]

If WWE were to pass 1m PPV buys WITH ONLY full-timers, It would have to be the Royal Rumble. Though this year's rumble featured Rock vs Punk, the rest of the card featured full timers. Wrestlemania probably couldn't draw 1,000,000 without guys like Taker, HHH, Lesnar, Rock, etc. Mainly because not everyone wants to See Orton vs Cena or Punk vs Brian, though they should. Money in The Bank is the only PPV I know that can get great buys without Part timers, but MITB probably won't get anywhere close to 1 million.

So the answer to the question is, no. They just can't. There's too many guys that don't have enough star power to them. The only guys that can draw are Cena, Punk, Bryan, maybe the Wyatt Family, and RVD, But he's more like a Jericho-part timer, if that even made sense.

 

[Tastycles]

Yes, definitely. WrestleMania 25 was abysmal, but it came pretty close to a million without any significant part timers, unless you include the Undertaker who was still pretty active back then and the rabble of has beens that Jericho beat.

I think you've got to look at it like this - WrestleMania has always been about the biggest stars willing to get into a wrestling ring. Mr. T was not a full time wrestler in 1984, LT was not a full time wrestler in 1995. WrestleMania has always been about having big stars with the wrestlers, the only difference is that there are big stars who used to be wrestlers now. The Rock and Brock Lesnar share similar roles in pop culture to Mr. T and LT respectively, and they're trained wrestlers and probably more willing to come - it's a no brainer to have them on board. When wrestling was far more popular than it is now, the WWE were selling fewer PPVs and much fewer tickets to WrestleMania, and a part of that has to do with the current market strategy.

Could WWE market a card that sold more than a million buys with their full time cast only? Potentially, though it would be hard. However, when all is said and done that's not what WrestleMania is or has ever been about.

 

[closet_fan]

I don't think they can pass 1mil with the part timers they currently have been using for the last two years. Look at the drop off for this year's WM. The Rock and Lesnar bumps have clearly lost steam. The price is frustratingly high for people and streaming should only be getting more popular. Their best bet is to run a convincing storyline that will make people think they are seeing the UT for the last time or find a way to stop people from stealing the show.

Keep in mind my opinions come from a 38 year old who lives on his own in a house with a mortgage:

As someone who streams the events online, lowering the price and trying to crack down on all streaming sites will be the only way I ever buy a pay-per-view. Since I am the only one out of my friends who watches wrestling, I'm not afforded the luxury of being able to have 5-6 friends come over to foot some of the bill. I could treat myself, but I can't see spending such a huge amount of money when I could use that on groceries or bills.

Hell I could use that money on the Super Bowl and live like a king for an evening.

And there is no way they can crack down on streaming sites. Once one gets closed down, 2-3 more pop up.

 

[The Eighties]

Jack Hammer makes a good point, wrestling is built on perception, if WWE book the guys they are pushing with consistency and present them as stars, then by the time Mania comes around you can book big matches between stars on the main roster that could get you the million buys.

However I think the real template is not to be part timer free, as is mentioned above Mania has always been set apart by showcasing stars we don't see the rest of the year, no, the thing to aim for is to reach the point where the part timers are support matches with the two main matches being between top stars who are full time.

 

[gooseholla]

No. Quite frankly there is no one in the WWE that would cause me to pay XX amount to watch. Sorry, but that is the case. In the old days, there might have been 1 or 2 matches you didn't want to see. There are now whole events you don't want to see...

Fact is, WWE dropped the ball in promoting people from 2004 onwards, and those they did, have gone or aren't over. They need part timers, and will continue to do so, until, either:

1. Wrestling is popular, unmissable TV again and people are willing to pay
2. They get some more stars - which isn't going to really happen without competition
3. People stop downloading the PPVs due to high prices for mediocre quality.

Fact is though, if your figures are correct, part timers add 200,000 people on average. Even at $50 each, that's a million dollars extra. They're not going to turn that kind of money down, especially with all the extra coverage it gets them and merchandise. I don't ever see them going away now - a trend has been started. We all want to see which legend is going to face which superstar.

 

[Pedigree1]

Without the Part timers theres no way in Blue Hell WWE can pass 1,000,000 PPV buys. In order to pass 1MIL buys, WWE needs all the above. Great story telling,compelling matches,and WWE needs to have everyone be spot on. Part timers returning legends add a necessary mix. Plus,when was the last time the WWE announced a surprise at WM.

Imagine,the scenarios all kinds. Undertaker without an opponent,at WM! I dont know how in this day and age it can be pulled off being social media and such. But Taker without an opponent at the grandest stage of em all. Then Stingers music hits! Undertaker and Sting at WM granted 5 years too late but the surprise aspect,plus great compelling story lines,returning legends that WM alone would do 1.5M buys easily.

 

[MCMG]

Nope. There simply isn't enough appeal for the stars. I cannot think of a combination that would bring 1 million buys. Maybe, maybe Cena v Orton for the WWE title and Bryan/Punk for he WHC but even that would struggle. After that the next best thing would be something like Del Rio vs Sheamus - hardly going to convert a part time fan. People that stopped watching in the early 2000's won't know who Orton, Punk, Bryan are. They might know Cena but that's it. Put Undertaker, HHH, The Rock and Lesnar in and it becomes appealing to someone who hasn't watched wrestling for a while.

 

[LoudClearVoice]

Here's the thing about 1 million buys: There's a large majority of the fan base that is going to buy most of the PPVs anyway, no matter what. To get the "extra" viewers to put it into the 1 million buy realm, WWE has to attract viewers that wouldn't normally buy the PPV.

There's simply nothing left with the current roster that we haven't already seen that is going to get people that wouldn't buy the PPV to buy it.

This is why it's 1 million is impossible without part timers. The part timers lure in casual fans, non-fans, mainstream fans, or former fans. When you have Undertaker, The Rock, Stone Cold, Triple H, Jericho, Brock Lesnar, you're going to get people that haven't watched WWE in YEARS to buy the PPV simply because of those guys. That's how you get to 1 million.

Those fans have no clue who CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Randy Orton, are.

 

[lil bitch Kid]

The issue here isn't can they do it, it is, have they ever done it? As far as I can remember the answer is no. The E has always had a part timer, a celebrity, a 'guest host', something extra to sell the show and draw main stream attention.

On a weekly basis, the flag ship show draws, typically, 3-4 million viewers. Let's say, in the home stretch, they are drawing 4 million. That would mean that 25% of people are shelling out $60 to watch the show. More likely is that people that are paying are getting together and watching at one person's house and splitting the cost or they're going out somewhere. Where the magic million will come from is not from people who watch Raw every week. It will come from the average Joe fans that watch every once in a while, or that used to watch all the time and that had some mainstream attention catch their eye and piqued their interest. That is also why there is an upswing in ratings leading into Mania.

 

[GameOver]

They could if they had better build ups, had engaging characters and spent more time building up the titles across the board so people want to see more then just 1 person on the whole show. But they don't, the only engaging characters to the general populace are stars from the past that were proven, very few specifically from the past 6 years have anything going for them then what WWE marketing forces down everyone's throats

So no, thats not gonna happen anytime soon with the current roster and writers so no they can't. WrestleMania is the only PPV that would come close to 1Million buys and that's just 1 day of the year, but seriously they don't need it they are more then making a shit load of cash the whole year round just being average so imagine if the product got just 10% better how much more they'd be making on the whole

 

[lil bitch Kid]

They could if they had better build ups, had engaging characters and spent more time building up the titles across the board so people want to see more then just 1 person on the whole show. But they don't, the only engaging characters to the general populace are stars from the past that were proven, very few specifically from the past 6 years have anything going for them then what WWE marketing forces down everyone's throats

So no, thats not gonna happen anytime soon with the current roster and writers so no they can't. WrestleMania is the only PPV that would come close to 1Million buys and that's just 1 day of the year, but seriously they don't need it they are more then making a shit load of cash the whole year round just being average so imagine if the product got just 10% better how much more they'd be making on the whole

I agree to an extent but will go a step further. The roster is deep on pure talent, trust me. The thing is how they're used. To sustain 12-13 PPVs a year and get people to then shell $60 for the 'big' one with the same guys is unrealistic. If they cut the number of PPVs, draw out story lines longer and keep guys away from each other in the ring until the pay off, then yeah a million for Mania will be possible. Also if the network gets off the ground at a decent price $12/month, and all the former PPVs are on the network, then the million for Mania should be a walk, assuming they don't continue to jack the price up.

 

[BestIntheWWE]

I think that the part timers add to the experience of Wrestlemania. People want to see stars who don't wrestle on every raw or smackdown or even on every PPV, it's the one night of the year where you can see dream matches come true and superstars evolve into legends. I think it also helps out the younger talent in a sense. If people order WM only to see a Rock match or a Taker match, then they also get see all of the rising stars of the WWE, giving them more exposure as well. Like for example, at WM30, there is a Punk/Austin match (for the sake of an example). That is a dream match a lot of people want to see/will pay to see. If you give that match 20 mins, and give another match, lets say Daniel Bryan vs. Dolf Ziggler (two young guys loaded with talent and potential) 25 or 30 mins, for a championship, then their "stock" in the company immediately skyrockets. And more people might tune in to see them on Raw or Smackdown.

 

[rge2010]

No chance, absolutely no chance could they do it. Rock, Brock, Taker, Jericho etc collectively probably add about 33% on to the buy rates.

Cena vs Rock or Cena vs Orton?
Trips vs Brock or Trips vs Sheamus?
Punk vs Taker or Punk vs Kane?

Supported by Ziggler, Miz and Big Show.

Point proven.

 

[King Patrick Star]

Yes!! The perfect formula for the WrestleMania card is:

WWE Championship Title match
World Championship Title match
Intercontinental Championship Title match
United States Championship Title match
Unified WWE World Tag Team Championship Title match
Divas Championship Title match
Undertaker’s WrestleMania Streak match
Legends match
“Rookie” vs. “Pro” match
Celebrity match

 

[rge2010]

I have already said that this has no chance, but having a second thought about it I suppose Undertaker is classed as a Wrestlemania mainstay. Talent like Austin, Rock, Lesnar, Jericho, Foley etc must be overlooked as they are well and truly part time.

If I was in charge of booking and had a target of 1m ppv buys, I would do the following...

Main Event - John Cena vs Undertaker 'I quit match'
Cena has never quit in his current form. People would pay to see if this happened.

WWE Title - CM Punk vs Daniel Bryan
Hottest 2 in WWE right now. Fighting for the belt on the grandest stage.

World Title - Randy Orton vs Dolph Ziggler
These two would put on a hell of a match like they have in the past. Orton to work heel.

Vince McMahon/Sheamus/Barrett/McIntyre vs Triple H/Big Show/Kane/Mark Henry
Vince and WWE grown talents makes sense. Have Triple H team up with his 'Attitude buddies'.

The Wyatts vs The Shield
IC Title - Curtis Axel vs RVD
Rey Mysterio vs Sin Cara
Ryback vs Big E Langston

Pre-show
US Title - Antonio Cesaro vs Jack Swagger