Old Part-Timers vs. New Full-Timers

[S.J. Maximus]

So often on this forum and in the wrestling community I see a conflict between part-timers and full-timers. People like Ultimate Warrior and Mick Foley say that it's unfair to come in and take the spot of people who have been busting their ass all year just to come back for one match or one program. When I see these articles posted on WZ, the comments under usually have people arguing on whether or not Foley and Warrior's sentiments are true or not but now I want to put this argument in a formal setting: Is it fair to have part-timers get the best spot on the card?

In my opinion, I think it's absolutely fair. I personally would rather see any of the stars that came back (Rock, HHH, Nash, Book, Y2J, Foley, etc.) in a program than any of the 'stars' today. Who makes WWE more money? Rock or Cena? Austin or Punk? Booker or Cody? These guys have tremendous name value and can still perform at a high level, so why not let them? I understand that it sucks to work all year just to be left out on the biggest show of the year but if you work hard enough than you should be over enough to work a program with the part-timers, ala Randy Orton in 2004 or Edge in 2006. It's not like part-timers just come back and feud with each other (Nash/HHH is the only exception I swear), they usually come back to put over the next generation and pass the torch, so what's wrong with giving them a good spot on the card. With that being said though, I'd take a Rock/Y2J feud in 2012 over any possible feud the current roster of full-timers could produce. These guys are simply more charismatic, better in the ring, and are way more over than the full-timers so IMO their spot on the card should reflect that.

 

[HEEL JERICHO]

if they can still go and produce the goods and help out the upcoming talent then im fine with it like jericho and booker t helpin bring people like punk and so on to another level but people past it like kevin nash and these so called celebs at mania steelin peeples spots no

 

[cult_of_icecream_bar]

Yes and no,both. Look at booker,he's putting over cody. Jericho will do so for punk. But look at rock. I love him but hate the fact he wastes 15 miniutes to give a satellite message whether there could be a lower card match. Sad enough same goes for austin,he comes in,gives a stunner,drinks beer,then?Then having the celebrities make it worse. They do nothing but waste precious time. Bring in part-timers who can put over the young guns.

 

[akathelaw]

There's no simple answer. For every veteran like the Rock or Undertaker who can still "go" in the ring, there are former stars who retain a level of popularity that may be undeserved in the present. Look no further than Kevin Nash, an extremely charismatic and physically imposing figure who came back to waste TV time, wrestle badly and collect a paycheck.

I'm all for giving the hard-working full-timers some WrestleMania glory, but it HAS to be deserved. I'm STILL incredibly irritated that Curt Hawkins was a part of a WrestleMania main event when so many deserving talents never even made an appearance on the grandest stage. There are talents that fans simply won't ever care about, and WWE often keeps them on the payroll and shoves them down our throats each week on Raw/SD. 'Mania should be a reward for ONLY THE BEST talent.

 

[huddini17]

man i i wanna see attitude era superstars vs pg era superstars....from attitude era it should be hhh, y2j, undertaker, kane, big show, rey mysterio, booker t, christian and if there are more. and from pg era it should be cena, punk, orton, ziggler, cody, jack swagger, drew, mason ryan, miz, a-ry....it would be a hell of a storyline and superstars in today's will get more popular and tv time as well

 

[BASSER911414]

man i i wanna see attitude era superstars vs pg era superstars....from attitude era it should be hhh, y2j, undertaker, kane, big show, rey mysterio, booker t, christian and if there are more. and from pg era it should be cena, punk, orton, ziggler, cody, jack swagger, drew, mason ryan, miz, a-ry....it would be a hell of a storyline and superstars in today's will get more popular and tv time as well

The ******ed-ness of this post is beyond words... Firstly it will not happen because the image of the attitude era superstars looks way way way more imposing than any image of the pg stars.

Secondly, Rey Mysterio and Booker T were never part of the attitude era. Booker came during the invasion which was just after the attitude era and rey waay after that. They have both been wrestling in different promotions during the attitude era but doesnt make them attitude era stars.

Thirdly, you just put the entire roster into one match. What fills the rest of the card, JTG and Curt Hawkins ???

Lastly, it's just a plain out stupid idea...

PS: U mention the attitude era and u dont mention the rock and austin... Its people like u that make me lose faith in humanity

 

[asiatic7]

It's all about the munn-ay (money)-VKM. It's all about money and ratings. As bad as it is, we live in an era where wrestling is being run by ratings and twitter and who sells the most tee shirts. So when a guy like Rock comes in it's because he draws ratings. Same thing with Jericho, he draws. Guys like Booker T are for ratings too but, he is doing what the old vets are supposed to do, give a young future prospect that "rub". Think about this... WWE is thinking of taking the belt off CM punk because he doesn't do ratings? thats rediculous! They should just be concerned with giving their core audience a good product instead of trying to bring in a new audience. Rock and Austin brought in new audiences but when they left, that audience left too. You know how many times I here "Oh, I havent watched wrestling since Rock and Austin were there." I dont think wrestling needs them now, Vince should try to put faith behind guys like Punk, Ryder and Daniel Bryan instead of building them up to tear them down later, cuz that's what it seems like he's doing. WWE went through some lean years before (92-95). THey will bounce back. By the way what was the point in bringing back Kevin Nash? He didn't contribute anything to the product. Why did HHH go over on punk at MITB? That's not helping the future either. HHH should be putting guys over instead of feeding his oversized ego and getting his washed up friends a payday!

 

[huddini17]

ma bad...may be i put the whole thing wrong...but my point is old stars vs new stars....and not in a one whole match...i meant like how wcwecw vs wwf was...they can face each other in different matches...and i did not put stone cold and rock cuz austin is no way he is gonna wrestle again and rock is too busy with his movies

 

[Azane]

It's completely fair, but it is detrimental in ways.
Having The Rock being pushed from every point when he only makes 1 or 2 appearances is making younger upcoming stars look even smaller, and we're in the youth movement now, and in the process of creating a whole new set of stars since the Attitude Eras remnants are finally disappearing.

The Rock draws, Undertaker draws, they make the company money, they deserve the spotlight. The Rock being a credible threat to the face of the company when he's been a tooth fairy? that makes Cena look weak, which in turn makes half the roster look weak. Undertaker and Trips have stayed consistently inconsistent, and they don't take up that much time for what they're worth.


In the short run, having all 3 of those names on WM cards is great.
In the longer term, pushing off 3 future stars and not giving them a bit of spotlight is only going to delay their development.

Wrestlemania has always been a celebrity and name value game, having an Undertaker match is a given right now, so that's 1 match, Triple H will either face Taker or sneak in another match with Nash (Unless he was released, I vaguely remember that) and then there's the Rock vs Cena, so you're looking at about 1/3rd of the card being part time matches, fitting in the current roster of younger guys and giving them a chance to prove themselves will be tough. When the ratings come, if WM sold well, YAY ROCKY!, if WM sells bad, The undercarders sucked.

 

[CrayzChris]

The bottomline is that guys like The Rock, The Undertaker, and Triple H are STARS. So many of my friends were wrestling fans during the "attitude era" but stopped watching. They are ALL excited for The Rock's match at Mania. That's the point. The WWE is in a slump, and bringing back a huge star like The Rock instantly makes people take notice. They will get a ton of media attention, and free publicity. They will use The Rock's name to get old fans to come back, and hopefully take interest in the product, and start watching wrestling again.

If guys like The Rock, Undertaker, Triple H, Chris Jericho, Booker T, Mick Foley...are all around, and can still go - I don't see the harm in having them go up against some of the NEW guys. Just being in a match against any of those guys is enough to elevate someone. And if they put someone over, on the biggest stage of them all - think of what that could do for someone's career. It wouldn't hurt a guy like Cody Rhodes, or the The Miz if either of them beat Mick Foley at WrestleMania. Or if Sheamus takes the Undertaker to the limit, and nearly ends the streak.

If Chris Jericho takes a spot away from Dolph Ziggler - there's a problem. But if Chris Jericho being involved, means we don't see Yoshi Tatsu at 'Mania - then BIG DEAL. The "stars" that come back, do not, ever, take a spot away from another "star". All the main-event guys always get their chance to shine, and anyone worth anything will be featured on the show. If a bunch of 23 year old rookies don't get a WrestleMania pay day - good! It will give them something to work for in the future.

I don't know where this sense of entitlement came from. Sounds like this is leftover propoganda from Melina last year. WrestleMania is the biggest show...and should feature the biggest stars. You want a spot on the card? Work for it. I'd rather see Roddy Piper in a backstage segment, than anyone from NXT in the ring at WrestleMania. I'd rather watch Snooki in the ring, than Rosa Mendes - because she gets the WWE a ton of media attention, and ultimately, that exposure is good for business.

 

[thebarber]

at the end of the day, pro wrestling is just another business trying to turn a profit. Their main source of revenue is television rights, then advertisers who advertise during ad breaks in their programming. They make a stack on merchandise sales, and to sell the merchandise, they need popular talent for whom the masses can relate to and like or hate and in turn, by merchandise with their logo or likeness attached, dvds etc etc. So,with all that in mind, and trust me, this is what VKM Aand his yes man all cionsider, is how is the best way to generate this sort of revenue??? By having whomever they deem necessary on the biggest card of the year to get the most ppv buy rates. Vince feels that the card will look after itsaelf so the guys who make the card have earnt and deserved it whilst the ones who miss out have to work harder and contribute more, pitch more ideas yada yada yada. This of course is crap at times when due to time constarints, matches like Bryan vs Sheamus are punted after being advertised. So to answer the question, Vince doesnt care, so why shoudl we. He and his merry band of yes men put together the card they feel will generate the most money. So if that means we have old timers, they will be slotted into whatever spot. My only issue is whether the old timers can still go orif they there on name value only. Personnall, Jericho is only 40, he is not an okld timer and will be FAR MORE beneficial to buy rates than Jack Swagger or Evan Bourne. The Rock speaks for himself, think of the millions he has generated over the years for WWE. The match at Mania 25 with Jericho vs Steamboat, Piper and Snuka served a purpose. Personnally, WWE should have picked two other guys to join Steamboat who can still go like Steamboat, but those guys are WWE lifers andVince would have made sure they got a nice slice of the pie. The current crop of STARS are nothing to brag about, Ziggler, Rhodes, The Mix, R Truth are great, but not able to carry the company. Miz was placed in the main event last year but was only an afterthought, nobody cared that he retained the title, and worse, the result was easily predicted due to Rock being involved in the match. I wouldnt have an issue with Hogan being brought in, as long as he didnt wrestle. Just an appearance would give Wrestlemainia the right feel. Austion appearing is fine, but it would be huger if he could pull the tights on again. Batista was a bad wrestler to start with, but a return by him, or a Lesnar or a Goldberg(sux), I would have no issue with because they are PROVEN DRAW CARDS

 

[TheNextBigThing94]

In my opinion, theres too much emphasis on the stars of the past rather than the present. I agree stars like The Rock, Triple H etc. are superstars and their names on a ppv card instantly sells, but they shouldnt be relied upon. The argument that the current roster should work harder for that spot is incorrect. It is very obvious that WWE are putting most of the hope for WM on the Rock-Cena match, rather than building a fuller show, are we supposed to be invested emotionally into the first match on the card? No, we werent supposed to be for a long time. They would rather bring thr rock in for WM than slowly build a wide range of stories and characters that the fans can love, hate and adapt to. It's an easy way out.

In ten years time at WM 39 or whatever, are we gonna be this excited to see stars like punk, rhodes or miz come back? Probably not as much because all we seem to see as fans, are their abilities getting drowned out by the 'more important', 'better' stars of the past.

The best WM's such as 17, 19 etc., have featured little involvement from stars of the past. Why? Because people gave a damn about the roster! Why did they give a damn? Because the stars were given the main stage without the feeling that they were just running their course until a legend comes for one main event and steals the spotlight.

Just to be clear, The Rock and JERICHO some of my favourite wrestlers ever, but the present matters a hell of a lot more than him.

 

[JBK2008]

I for one love the older guys coming in and giving the rub to the young guys. Cody, Punk, Ziggler they all could use it. Even someone like a Orton could use a little push every now and then and some help in the mid and lower cards wouldn't hurt. If they can't work in the ring, have an older guy be a manager to the ones who aren't good on the mic. It's just a thought, but it could help get some of the lower talent up in the ranks. God knows the main event scene needs it.

I don't mind Old Part Timers, just as long as they can go in the ring. The New Full Timers need to shut up and sit and watch the screen when the old guys are on. Just learn. Look at this years past Wrestle Mania. There was little to no commentary during the Taker vs Triple H match. There didn't need to be. Those two told the story in the ring. I hope every young gun in the back has a copy of that match so they can study it.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I would rather see the current stars get the better spots. It isn't fair to someone who worked hard all year when someone else who comes back briefly for a couple of angles gets their spot on the card. The older guys' time has come and gone. They should be willing to let the younger guys have the spotlight. Some will argue that the older guys generate more interest and PPV buys. That would not be the case if younger guys were pushed properly because otherwise they would be over enough to be trusted with proper placement on the card. It's creative's fault in the end for constantly pushing older names.

 

[justinept]

The WWE has to use stars of the past and part-time performers at WrestleMania to give the event a big-time feel. There simply isn't enough star power on the full-time roster today. The last time the full-time roster lacked star power was WrestleMania's 11-13 ... and those were three of the worst WrestleManias of all time.

Think of the guys that have left abruptly in the past 5-6 years ... guys the WWE invested time in, but who left before they were able to help build a new star.

Guys that come to mind include: Angle, J. Hardy, Edge, Guerrero, Benoit, JBL, Batista and HBK ... with exception to Jeff Hardy - who won multiple World Titles in 2009 - all those guys main evented at least one WrestleMania. Consider this: The WWE invested time in those guys ... their return on investment was supposed to come with those guys helping to build the new stars. Unfortunately, the WWE was unable to get a true return on investment with most of those guys.

That, in my opinion, is why the WWE is so lacking in star power today - and why it is necessary for the WWE to bring back guys like The Rock The Undertaker, Triple H and Chris Jericho to help give the company's biggest event a star-power feel to it.

 

[#hamler]

Honestly, I'd much rather watch the part time superstars of the past than the superstars nowadays. That's not a knock against any of these superstars; it's just true. Wrestlemania is supposed to be the end all, be all. This is where gladiators collide to put on the best damn show of the year; I hold the event on such a high level and I’m sure I am not the only one. While Dolph Ziggler vs. CM Punk sounds like a compelling match for any pay-per-view, we can see this match main event Raw and I wouldn't think anything of it. Wrestlemania shouldn't be like that; Wrestlemania should be special matches featuring elite Superstars regardless of the generation.

Wrestlemania is much like a gift to wrestling fans. Getting the sense of nostalgia is just about the single best gift you can give to a wrestling fan. The WWF superstars of yesteryear are what our generation has grown up with and we'd give anything to relive that. Deep underneath it all, I would much rather watch Steve Austin take on The Rock another time than Randy Orton vs. John Cena; not because the match is better but because I crave that nostalgic feeling; I am bigger mark for both Austin and Rock.

That's why The Undertaker has a spot reserved for every Wrestlemania even though he never travels full time anymore. His character is larger than life and his streak in synonymous with Wrestlemania; it is pure nostalgia. The Undertaker's streak is far more important than anything a younger star currently on the WWE roster can give me. That example is the reason I prefer the old timers on my Wrestlemania card.

 

[King Patrick Star]

Being a fan since 1989, I will always go with the Old Part-Time Stars of the Past. The Current Full-Time Stars of Today have 11 or 12 other PPVs a year to work and to “prove” themselves. WrestleMania is the Showcase of the Immortals, not the Showcase of Mid-Card Talent who will never Main Event in their careers. Let Today’s Stars earn their spot at Mania and make room for proven Legends. It’s not like I’m saying put 8 Doinks in this year’s Money In The Bank Ladder match or anything like that. I’m just saying that WM should be the one PPV of the year that fans from the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and today should be buying. With Hogan headlining WM X8, and the Rock headlining WM XXVIII, that should tell you enough what the correct answer is.

 

[DirtyD79]

Using some of the older established stars to help build up some of the younger stars is a good idea but you can't keep building the show around the stars of the past or you end up with WCW. Sure it made them money and got them ratings in the short term but in the long run the older stars eventually wore out their welcome and the fans wanted something new. Who was left after that? You can't keep banking on nostalgia.