In the early 80s, Mid South Wrestling had one of the hottest feuds, Butch Reed vs Junkyard Dog. The feud drew a lot of money and these guys had some epic fights. I always wondered why Vince never had a major program with them. This would of been a great feud for Vince. They could of wrestled at WrestleMania 3 or 4. I know Vince likes to create his own history but I still think he lost out on this feud. Do you think their Mid South feud was just to gritty for the WWF and they wouldn't of been able to go all out? Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Butch Reed vs Junkyard Dog in WWF
- Thread starter spaldoni
- Start date
Makaveli31
Championship Contender
I think you answered your own questions. Vince likes to create his own history. He rarely if ever did angles or feuds that had already been done in other territories and they DEFINITELY couldn't do what they did in Mid-South in the WWF.
I have to agree on this while it would've been a great feud particularly since 1987 was what I consider to be a dry year for wrestling in general but when you consider as to how borderline G rated the WWF was back then as previously mentioned they couldn't go all the way like they did in Mid South.
Lowdown
Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!
Another thing to consider is that though they drew money in the Mid South, that doesn't translate to the same revenue in WWF. There were quite a few feuds happening at that time, and the focal point for the company was Hulk Hogan. Compared to the gates that WWF had, plus it's toned down nature, a feud like Reed vs. JYD probably wouldn't have drawn like it would've in like NWA or any of the territories.
justtxyank
Championship Contender
Vince didn't promote JYD as a seriously wrestler to begin with, so the idea that he could have a truly serious feud with Butch Reed is unlikely. JYD was a cartoon character in the WWF. Plus it was the 80s, Vince wasn't about to build serious programs around two black wrestlers.
and without playing the colour card, I cannot think of a time when Vince had two afriacan americans in a main event level heated fued.
Butch Reed was his own worst enemy in WWE, he forgone his Intercontinental Title win by no-showing the set of tv taping he was supposedly going to beat Steamboat when he asked for time off to be with his wife for the birth of their child.
Junkyard Dog was there to build the major heel for their run with Hogan, He rarely wion matches when it mattered, never won at 4 Wrestlemanias(1 was a dq after match restarting), he was solely their to sell merchanidse and entertain the kid demographic.
This feud would never have worked in WWF back then,
Butch Reed was his own worst enemy in WWE, he forgone his Intercontinental Title win by no-showing the set of tv taping he was supposedly going to beat Steamboat when he asked for time off to be with his wife for the birth of their child.
Junkyard Dog was there to build the major heel for their run with Hogan, He rarely wion matches when it mattered, never won at 4 Wrestlemanias(1 was a dq after match restarting), he was solely their to sell merchanidse and entertain the kid demographic.
This feud would never have worked in WWF back then,
New Hot Fed
Championship Contender
I remember reading a lot of good things for years in the wrestling mags about Butch Reed but when he showed up in the WWE, I don't know if it was the roids, but the guy could hardly move or wrestle and was nothing special creatively.
JoeyJoeJoe
Championship Contender
JYD was a cartoonish character, along the lines of Hillbilly Jim or George Steele at that time. It wasn't until years later that I got a chance to watch some of his Mid-South matches to realize this guy was a completely different, and very solid power wrestler. McMahon got him because he sold tickets for the kids, but at no time was he going to get a serious push, and certainly by 1987, he had drifted to near jobber status.
HeenanGorilla
Championship Contender
I think people are using the term "push" here too much, and it is really misplaced. JYD and Reed could have had a feud going into WMIV, without either needing a "push". Assuming the Steamboat/Reed/Honky story is true, Reed had already blown his IC shot. JYD was still popular at that point. Not at the level he had been years earlier, but still a crowd favorite.
A seed planted at Survivor Series 1987 could have led to a Saturday Morning feud build, as was the case back then, with a little dust up at the inaugural Rumble to give it some steam to reach a WMIV blowoff. JYD didn't need to be in the WMIV battle royal and Reed lifts right out of the tournament; so, a match was doable.
This mini feud could have had some crowd-pleasing JYD wins, maybe some by DQ or intentional countout to keep Reed strong and have some heat-building Reed wins. JYD was not going to get a "push", so the losses wouldn't hurt him. Reed COULD HAVE regained heat with a well-written feud against a crowd favorite, even though said favorite was on the decline.
Nowadays you are either being "pushed" or "not being pushed". Back then, when the product was much better, there was plenty of room for feuds that simply filled the mid-card with interest for the crowd. Then, the blowoff leads to another feud. Prime example is the end of the Jake/Andre feud at WMV. DiBiase comes down, out of nowhere, grabs Damien and off they go....Jake and Ted have a year-long interesting feud in place. Less was more.
I think dismissing angles, or potential angles, because it doesn't lead to a push is foolish, useless and uncreative. Today's products with so many belts is watered down. Back then, you didn't need a title on the line to please the viewer. The wrestlers were better and their characters were better. This cookie cutter age of boredom has ruined what pro wrestling used to be to old schoolers. Sucks for you guys now who need a push or a title match to be interested. You don't even realize PPVs are $50 Raws. Golden Age = few hours of a week building feuds and then PPVs bringing it all together on one phenomenal card. Now = Hours and hours of TV requiring repeated matches and no time for build, followed by the same matches one more time, but you had to pay to see it the last time. Sucks for you guys.
A seed planted at Survivor Series 1987 could have led to a Saturday Morning feud build, as was the case back then, with a little dust up at the inaugural Rumble to give it some steam to reach a WMIV blowoff. JYD didn't need to be in the WMIV battle royal and Reed lifts right out of the tournament; so, a match was doable.
This mini feud could have had some crowd-pleasing JYD wins, maybe some by DQ or intentional countout to keep Reed strong and have some heat-building Reed wins. JYD was not going to get a "push", so the losses wouldn't hurt him. Reed COULD HAVE regained heat with a well-written feud against a crowd favorite, even though said favorite was on the decline.
Nowadays you are either being "pushed" or "not being pushed". Back then, when the product was much better, there was plenty of room for feuds that simply filled the mid-card with interest for the crowd. Then, the blowoff leads to another feud. Prime example is the end of the Jake/Andre feud at WMV. DiBiase comes down, out of nowhere, grabs Damien and off they go....Jake and Ted have a year-long interesting feud in place. Less was more.
I think dismissing angles, or potential angles, because it doesn't lead to a push is foolish, useless and uncreative. Today's products with so many belts is watered down. Back then, you didn't need a title on the line to please the viewer. The wrestlers were better and their characters were better. This cookie cutter age of boredom has ruined what pro wrestling used to be to old schoolers. Sucks for you guys now who need a push or a title match to be interested. You don't even realize PPVs are $50 Raws. Golden Age = few hours of a week building feuds and then PPVs bringing it all together on one phenomenal card. Now = Hours and hours of TV requiring repeated matches and no time for build, followed by the same matches one more time, but you had to pay to see it the last time. Sucks for you guys.
I have to agree with this. I had just mentioned in a thread about the tag division that I was watching the Royal Rumble I believe 1993 and there was a tag match featuring the Beverly Brothers and The Bushwackers. Jamsion was in the corner of the Bushwackers and The Genius was in the corner of The Beverly Brothers. It was just a midcard feud as neither of these teams were near the titles, and the crowd was going nuts. I notcied a lot of that during that era. The fans were into to all the feuds and not just hot for the main event. Butch Reed and JYD could have had a great feud, and still been no where near the title. Not everyone has to have that "push" to be interesting. I think we need to go back to that just a little bit today, and get all of the wrestler in actually mini feuds instead of just throwing random matches together week in and week out. Everyone was saying that JYD was just for the kids. Well Butch Reed could have came out and insulted the kids. Enter JYD and you have a feud that at least some of the fans would be interested in.
HeenanGorilla
Championship Contender
PERFECT example! I remember the Jamison match (I only thought he waited too long to deck the Genius. haha! "Good tease, Jamison. Now get on with it." haha) But this is a perfect example. Neither of those teams was near the title. Much like Hacksaw was never really close to a title. Kids bought his foam 2x4 and cheered Hooo! with him. He won, he lost, he never won gold, and he gave people great pleasure. Same with the Bushwhackers! Excellent example!
MrMojoRisin
Championship Contender
Exactly. Feuds were more special back then, because they didn't give everything away all at once. You'd see the tease on Saturday mornings. A slow build, then eventually you'd get to the payoff on a PPV or SNME. In the meantime, the act would go around the horn on house shows.
You got the tease with the old ways, which makes everything more interesting. That's why mid-card feuds that wouldn't have meant anything today got the huge reactions that they did. Plus of course it helped that with the Saturday morning programs, everyone was built to look like a winner. Unfortunately the model is so different today, that it's difficult to do this.
JYD and Reed were both past their prime by the time they even hit the WWF, and JYD especially by the point mentioned in the OP really didn't have a lot left in the tank. They never could have had as good a feud in the WWF that they did in Mid-South. Not only for that reason, but for the fact that they would have had to water down their previous work somewhat to fit into the WWF of the mid-80's. Not completely, because programs like Hercules/Billy Jack Haynes showed that there was a place for hard, physical feuds, but JYD especially after being a cartoon for so long would have been a tough sell in the types of matches him and Reed used to have.
It still would have been nice to see though. The two together could have given each other some credibility again... because as we all saw with both after they each went to WCW shortly after, they didn't really have any left (they tried building JYD against Flair and it failed miserably - Reed in Doom where Ron Simmons and Woman were the stars, and not the guy who was one of the best workers in North America a few years earlier).
THTRobtaylor
Once & Future Wrestlezone Columnist
There's a big difference people are missing when they refer to push being a factor here. Today you have to be pushed to be on the card/show/PPV at all feud or none. In the Hogan era EVERYONE had a feud for every PVV. Mania would often run over 12 matches and to certain card levels. You had your openers, lower mid, mid, upper mid and mai event but all were actual feuds. It only really changed around WM8 when they started throwing together PPV cards and moved to the RAW format.
As to Reed and JYD, while I am sure Reed missed a taping, the reason he didn't get what we now call push was more cos he didn't fit at the right time. Had Steamboat stuck round till Summerslam to build a feud with Reed for the IC, he'd have got it and JYD would have likely been a solid early contender for it. But Steamboat bailed within 3 months, there was no PPV to build a feud with Reed so they went with Honky who had more momentum and shock value.
A lot of guys who came into the WWF between 85/87 were polar opposites in their WWF roles to what had gone before. Jim Duggan was a heel for a good portion of his career, Ted DiBiase a face. Vince wasn't so much cartooning wrestlers as thinking outside the box with them, hence the bloody, brutal Sheepherders became comedic, buffoonish Bushwhackers and JYD the Queen loving fun babyface. JYD did have some quite vicious feuds, especially the one with Valentine for the IC. Check out the youtubes with Valentine using his colour... those were strong even for early Hogan era but once the WWF Era was in full effect, there was no place for those kind of feuds that made money down in the southern territories, it was adapt or die and so many talents failed to adapt to what was needed. Those who did, like Jake, DiBiase, JYD and Valentine had long WWF careers...those who couldn't like Butch Reed, Bam Bam Bigelow, Terry Funk, Harley Race and others of that ilk didn't stay very long at all.
As to Reed and JYD, while I am sure Reed missed a taping, the reason he didn't get what we now call push was more cos he didn't fit at the right time. Had Steamboat stuck round till Summerslam to build a feud with Reed for the IC, he'd have got it and JYD would have likely been a solid early contender for it. But Steamboat bailed within 3 months, there was no PPV to build a feud with Reed so they went with Honky who had more momentum and shock value.
A lot of guys who came into the WWF between 85/87 were polar opposites in their WWF roles to what had gone before. Jim Duggan was a heel for a good portion of his career, Ted DiBiase a face. Vince wasn't so much cartooning wrestlers as thinking outside the box with them, hence the bloody, brutal Sheepherders became comedic, buffoonish Bushwhackers and JYD the Queen loving fun babyface. JYD did have some quite vicious feuds, especially the one with Valentine for the IC. Check out the youtubes with Valentine using his colour... those were strong even for early Hogan era but once the WWF Era was in full effect, there was no place for those kind of feuds that made money down in the southern territories, it was adapt or die and so many talents failed to adapt to what was needed. Those who did, like Jake, DiBiase, JYD and Valentine had long WWF careers...those who couldn't like Butch Reed, Bam Bam Bigelow, Terry Funk, Harley Race and others of that ilk didn't stay very long at all.