"Burial" of talent

[Best in the World 79]

Example: Fandango beats Chris Jericho in his debut match at Wrestlemania. Fast forward a handful of months and that Fandango is consistently beating a Dolph Ziggler(who cashed in earlier in the year to a deafening ovation as a heel) only to go on to lose an ic title match he beat Dolph to earn. Fandango had been significantly cooled off since his debut time. Not enough?

Here's another:

Daniel Bryan is probably the most over guy since the last calendar year. He cleanly defeats Cena at Summerlam for the title. What next? He laid flat for a full minute after a triple h pedigree. After he kicked out of everything cena threw at him. After all that, Vince, Stephanie and hhh all bury him weekly on TV just telling you he's not the wwe prototype therefore he won't be champion. Now he's coming out in a Michael myers suit with the sleeves cut off.

Now, I'm not necessarily asking anyone a question. I'm pretty much just bitching.

 

[Cody Trail]

I honestly believe the term "burial" is the 2nd most overused overrated, and misunderstood word in the IWC vocabulary, directly behind the definition of a "jobber".

"Buried" would be Jack Swagger, where you go from being World Heavyweight Champion on SmackDown to random matches on Superstars within 2 months of losing the title, which isn't brought up again. "Jobber" would be Curt Hawkins, a guy that rarely appears on television, and whenever he does, it ends in a quick loss. Just because someone is losing a lot on television, that doesn't make them a jobber. Likewise, just because someone moves down the card, that doesn't mean they've been buried.

With a ballroom dancing gimmick, Fandango was going to be mid-carder regardless of whether he ever beat Jericho at Mania or not. He's been in and out of the IC / US title picture since Mania, and that's right where he should be.

And Daniel Bryan has been moved slightly down the card, but given a new storyline to work with. One that includes Bray Wyatt, who management is also high on. I don't see the problem.

 

[wrestler36]

I agree. Barrett's in the main event PPV during the Nexus era, now he's on his 3rd or 4th gimmick change. Brodus Clay had some momentum initially, then he started to lose matches. Ryback as a face losing on every PPV. Yeah, Fandango had a bunch of momentum, but they pulled the plug. Xavier Woods got pinned in his 2nd or 3rd match. I'm not sure if this is to 'humble' all stars so they don't get egotistical or what. I remember seeing a Madden article a few months ago saying that the WWE wants wrestlers to have 50/50 records. It seems that way with the exception of Cena (not a Cena hater). I wonder what the psychology of the booking is.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Very few people on this website have a clue what the term "buried" means. Maybe you hinted at it with Fandango. But to suggest Daniel Bryan is being buried is insane. He's consistently been involved in the top or second top storyline in the WWE for months now. That's not being buried.

Zack Ryder has been buried. He's not on TV, probably never will be again. Dolph Ziggler is being buried. Won the World Championship and now jobs to guys in a #1 contender match for the Intercontinental Championship.

Daniel Bryan? NOT being buried. He's a top guy. He has been ever since July leading up to SummerSlam and will continue to be booked as a top guy. He's being used in order to get other guys over. That's hardly buried.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Example: Fandango beats Chris Jericho in his debut match at Wrestlemania. Fast forward a handful of months and that Fandango is consistently beating a Dolph Ziggler(who cashed in earlier in the year to a deafening ovation as a heel) only to go on to lose an ic title match he beat Dolph to earn. Fandango had been significantly cooled off since his debut time. Not enough?

Here's another:

Daniel Bryan is probably the most over guy since the last calendar year. He cleanly defeats Cena at Summerlam for the title. What next? He laid flat for a full minute after a triple h pedigree. After he kicked out of everything cena threw at him. After all that, Vince, Stephanie and hhh all bury him weekly on TV just telling you he's not the wwe prototype therefore he won't be champion. Now he's coming out in a Michael myers suit with the sleeves cut off.

Now, I'm not necessarily asking anyone a question. I'm pretty much just bitching.

Bryan wasn't buried until they stuck him with The Wyatts. If this lasts long enough, then he'll be buried.

Fandango is a completely different story. He was a fad, plain and simple. He was mega-over for a very short time because of one VERY hot crowd. As soon as the initial amusement of "Fandangoing" wore off, he went back to being the nobody he should be.

 

[Danger Burger]

Learn what burying is.

Daniel Bryan didn't get buried by getting pedigreed. It was simply the end of his push. He's never been in a higher position. That the pedigree came after a grueling match with Cena is the reason why he was down for an age after it. Week after week he was beaten by what... Four guys? The sheild and orton? And Big show? If it takes four to five guys to beat you, and you main event raw several weeks in a row, you are not being buried.

Now he's in a hot programme with one of the hottest new talents. The trouble with wrestling is in the old adage, "the show must go on". Daniel Bryan beat Cena, but what now? We have a show the next night! We need drama! Daniel Bryan is a little smaller than the rest. He's a great build for an underdog. If the underdog gets a year long run with the title, guess what? He's no longer an underdog. Have a group of people cheat and rob him and we gain even more sympathy, we cheer more, we hope more. Every time Goku got beaten up, nobody thought it killed his momentum, did they?

 

[Best in the World 79]

For the few of you giving vocabulary lessons, uhm...anyway.

Ziggler gets buried. They are trying to bury Bryan but the crowd won't let it fully happen.

Today's wrestling is different. The business has changed. Things have changed. Burying has changed. The internet allows basically anyone to know what's going on. Ziggler and Bryan are both work horses who the fans like and absolute love in Bryan's case. Ziggler is booked to lose. Up until this Wyatt thing Daniel Bryan had been booked as a "b plus" player. There was never a payoff with the Bryan burial. Punk is a "lock" vs hhh at mania so Bryan won't be getting any revenge on him. He's obviously not in the title picture. to me, that's buried. You didn't see Austin deal with that kinda shit. Not rock. Not hbk. None of them. The Seattle raw crowd was so hot for Bryan it re routed the fucking promo! And he got screwed by everyone seemingly and is not the champion now wrestling in sleeveless coveralls. It just reminds me of Demolition Smash and Repo Man. Kills it off.

I like bray Wyatt. I like d Bryan. I want the program to work. But regardless if what you want to argue about the meaning of terms to wrestling fans. There's people who actually like Zack Ryder. With that being said, anything is then possible. Including a broader meaning of burial in professional wrestling.

 

[Spidey Revivey]

When important stars aren't doing important things, then maybe we can toss the word "buried" around and it will actually make sense.

Daniel Bryan is being featured in the hottest storyline to come out of WWE that doesn't have Brock Lesnar around it. Bryan is showing facets of his character that his "Yes!" gimmick restrained. He isn't being destroyed week in and week out by the evil "Authority" that everyone was bitching about on here but has instead aligned himself with the stable whose hype has started to rival The Shield's. This is Daniel Bryan getting a push and breaking away from the one trick pony underdog character Summerslam was making him out to be. Major superstars have went "to the darkside" and joined groups just to come out as bigger commodities (Hogan, Rock, Austin, etc).

If you think he's being buried now, remember back when he first started in NXT and how bad he was jobbing out to everyone. Remember how he lost the World Championship to Sheamus in less than a minute. Remember how WWE stuck him in a nowhere team with Kane and how he made all of those angles gold.

Vince is high on Bryan, don't let shitty columnists fool you. If he wasn't, you'd be seeing Bryan face Ziggler, Fandango, Santino, etc and not be in the Main Event week after week.

 

[Cody Trail]

Bryan wasn't buried until they stuck him with The Wyatts. If this lasts long enough, then he'll be buried.

Fandango is a completely different story. He was a fad, plain and simple. He was mega-over for a very short time because of one VERY hot crowd. As soon as the initial amusement of "Fandangoing" wore off, he went back to being the nobody he should be.

If you take into consideration that, as Johnny Curtis, the guy wasn't even high enough on the totem pole to appear on television, I'd say Fandango has been a success. At least he's in a better place on the card than he was two years ago.

 

[Eyebrows]

I think of buried as being a deliberate attempt to keep somebody down or punish somebody for something. I don't think it applies to most of the roster. If you take the dirt sheets word as gospel then Ziggler losing a lot allegedly due to comments he's made in the media would be a good example of somebody being buried.

For guys like Fandango it's more an issue with even-steven booking, poor forsight and lack of long-term planning, and the absence of any compelling or entertaining mid-card storylines.

 

[Reflection]

Damien Sandow is another wrestler who was very high (no pun intended) at one point; drawing a lot of reaction with his scholar-like promos and trademark catchphrases, formed an entertaining tag team with Cody Rhodes, and also went on to win the Money in the Bank briefcase for the WHC. Then he lost to an injured and weakened John Cena, which many thought would actually elevate him rather than bury him, and now he has been losing more often than winning ever since. His "intellectual savior" gimmick also seems to have been replaced by the typical angry heel gimmick to some extent.

 

[wrestler36]

Damien Sandow is another wrestler who was very high (no pun intended) at one point; drawing a lot of reaction with his scholar-like promos and trademark catchphrases, formed an entertaining tag team with Cody Rhodes, and also went on to win the Money in the Bank briefcase for the WHC. Then he lost to an injured and weakened John Cena, which many thought would actually elevate him rather than bury him, and now he has been losing more often than winning ever since. His "intellectual savior" gimmick also seems to have been replaced by the typical angry heel gimmick to some extent.

I think this is a current problem with the 'mid-card' status wrestlers now. Unless you are a main eventer, there is a good chance that when you wrestle regularly on TV, you will win one week, lose the next, repeat. I've heard former wrestlers (the latest one being Austin on his podcast) talk more about bringing back true jobbers. Not JTG or Zack Ryder who can salvage some name value, but your Iron Mike Sharpe's or Barry Horowitz' (before he started winning).

 

[BillAlfonsos_Whistle]

I can't even complain right now.
MOST of the right guys are being buried. I happen to be a huge Ziggler fan but he just can't get over fully as either a face or a heel. You could argue that's because of mismanagement but I would just point to D. Bryan as a guy who has been mismanaged throughout the years that has out-lasted that and become a massive draw.

 

[Softcore Holly]

I can't even complain right now.
MOST of the right guys are being buried. I happen to be a huge Ziggler fan but he just can't get over fully as either a face or a heel. You could argue that's because of mismanagement but I would just point to D. Bryan as a guy who has been mismanaged throughout the years that has out-lasted that and become a massive draw.

I wouldn't call it "out-lasted" that, lets face it if you don't have support from the back no matter how much the fans love you you're not going anywhere. Ziggler being a great example of this since he was really over after his cash in, and if the WWE was behind him he had potential to be huge. But sadly enough that wasn't the case as he just kept losing, and well no star can "out-last" that.

DB while not handled perfectly, has been handled pretty well the last 3 years. MITB winner, long WHC run, crappy WM sure but after that was a entertaining tag title run with Kane, etc etc etc. The point being there wasn't a time where he just kept on losing, sure his win record wasn't perfect but he still came out on top more often then not, and fans were able to get behind him because of that. Well that and they kinda struck gold with those Yes/No chants.

Not taking anything away from DB, he works hard as hell and deserves everything he got so far and more. But he obviously had a lot of support from creative otherwise there's no way he would be as big as he is now.

 

[Cody Trail]

Damien Sandow is another wrestler who was very high (no pun intended) at one point; drawing a lot of reaction with his scholar-like promos and trademark catchphrases, formed an entertaining tag team with Cody Rhodes, and also went on to win the Money in the Bank briefcase for the WHC. Then he lost to an injured and weakened John Cena, which many thought would actually elevate him rather than bury him, and now he has been losing more often than winning ever since. His "intellectual savior" gimmick also seems to have been replaced by the typical angry heel gimmick to some extent.

They may have something going with Sandow though. After he lost MITB, his intellectual savior gimmick has chipped off more and more. The blue robe? The pink tights? The slicked back hair? Holding the mic like a wine glass? All gone. He still says "You're Welcome!" and comes out to Hallejuah, but that's about it. It's like their DXifying him, like they did with HHH back in 1997.

 

[HitchSlap]

I haven't commented on a wrestling board in almost 15 years. I'll now bore the current smarks of today... but I find today's product so confusing. This is going to be so cliche and will probably be ignored and labelled as pointing out the obvious, but as an old fuck, but...what the fuck happened?

The only contact I have to wrestling are current podcasts from Austin, Jericho and Youtube clips of anything I want to search (amazing).... But I find it so odd that someone who no longer watches can point out the obvious to a product that is in need of an injection of pop culture interest. Which is why I can have such a clear view because I'm so detached from it. I watched religiously from 1984-2002. I randomly check in and see so many obvious choices who should be leading the WWE (groan) that are actually interesting and provide something new and entertaining.

Damien Sandow (this guy is like Ric Flair, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect and Rick Martel in one. Besides the gimmick... his in ring ability is awesome.)

Dolph Ziggler: You all know why... he is more crisp than fresh romaine lettuce.

Daniel Bryan: we all know why... I know the current angle is trying to achieve a pay off. But honestly, why are they fucking with the fans so much with him?... They literally have a VERSION of Stone Cold on there hands. Selfish ***** will do it later when it doesn't matter.

Punk is wasted and if he wants to retire...FINE, let him be like Paul Heyman (sadly but not surprisingly the best promo guy period).

Kane needs to retire... SO does Mark Henry. I am shocked that fans still make excuses for him. Henry never was and still is a horrible worker. Fans clamour over his heel character from a few yrs ago and it's fucking embarrassing. How starved for entertainment were the fans that he became acceptable as a 'good heel'? How dare you. I've rewatched it all, watch Bully Ray early 2013 (not a TNA mark) for at least showing how a good heel is supposed to be currently. TNA crowds suck, but damn... he does all the right things.

I know this is so obvious, and mention Dean Ambrose (awesome, so is the other Shield guys) etc... but I honestly find it schizophrenic that a company so hellbent on pleasing the masses to ignore who are obviously SO over (but are currently pretty much buried). Again, I know this is such a cliche stance.... but fuck it, my keyboard entitles me to waste space.

I hated watching WWE after 2002, and now have watched some amazing matches on youtube since... I just never thought I'd actually connect or actually like ANY current stars that they've produced. Althought, guys like I mentioned above, are workers that old school and appreciative fans can get into.... but they exquisitely botched it. This is all meaningless, and surely countless fans have aired the same issues.... but I guess I feel the need to selfishly vent randomly because it feels good.

This shit used to be so exciting and important to me. Now it's become what everyone used to tease me about in 1992... lame, fake and predictable. Bring on the sarcasm and ultra witty quips.. But I just want what you want, a good product.

In closing (if you've even cared to read this far) I finally realised that I am so disappointed because wrestling HAD all the components of EVERY single source of entertainment: athleticism, storytelling, theatre, pop culture, engagement, merchandising, advertising, MUSIC (something ppl don't give it enough credit for) and fucking inspiration. They used to be heroes. Where else can you get all that in 1 goddamn product?

Ah well.... Back on my high horse. It's just sad that I can only connect to this amazing artform through retired wrestlers on Twitter... and oddly, Botchamania (JESUS!).

PS. Bret Hart is the greatest worker and nobody sells better than Scott Hall. Fuck yourself forever in Pontiac, Michigan. Wooooo!


The END.

 

[Mongoose McQueen]

The term burial has been a misconception by the IWC time and time again. I will give you a "perfect" example of a burial: Dolph Ziggler. Ziggler during mid 2013 was winning World titles and getting big reactions from the crowd, having great matches etc....and what happens? he gets injured. 2 months later, he returns and is put in some random matches that have NO relevance and they never even mention the cash not once. Where is he now? I can't even answer that because his matches have all been very forgettable lately.

I read a report going back about 6 months or so where WWE had decided that he was never going to be a guy who draws money. The problem is, WWE never gave him that second chance that he deserved. He should of returned straight away and taken Del Rio's spot in WWE. THAT is a burial, not Daniel Bryan, not CM Punk and not Fandango etc.....people really need to go back to Wrestling school and learn what the term actually means.

 

[Alastor]

I think the only person that can be considered buried right now is Dolph Ziggler who went from the potential break out star in 2013 to jobbing to Fandango by year's end. It was an unfortunate accident that he suffered a concussion just when WWE was ready to push him to the moon. But I think the continued burial for the year is also due to his perceived attitude issues backstage. Have either issue might not get someone buried, but having attitude concerns AND health concerns mean a high chance of being shafted aside.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

The term "burial" is one of the most overrrated and inaccurately used terms in pro wrestling, maybe second only to "overrated" itself. People often slap the "overrated" label onto wrestlers that they themselves don't like, regardless if said wrestlers are successful with a majority of fans.

In the case of Fandango, it's true that his push was halted and it was halted due in large part to suffering a concussion so soon after starting on the main roster. If I'm not mistaken, it's also not the first concussion that he's suffered. As medical science is learning more & more about head trauma and the long term effects that can be the result of concussions, it's made every sports or athletic organization take a much longer, much harder look at athletes who've had them. In Fandango's case, maybe it shied WWE away from Fandango getting a huge push and being a long term star. As I said, he'd only been on the main roster for a few months, at most, and had already suffered significant head trauma.

As for Daniel Bryan, for the last friggin' time, WWE hasn't buried the guy. WWE management is said to be especially high on The Wyatt Family, so why would they put Daniel Bryan with The Wyatt Family if they wanted to bury him? Why would management make Bryan such a central figure in an act that they're said to be very high on if they weren't high on Bryan himself? I believe that Daniel Bryan can be a top guy, I don't think that can be questioned when you look at how he's progressed in popularity over the course of the last 2 years. I don't believe that Bryan will be THE top guy in the same sense that John Cena has since the mid 2000s. I think he MIGHT be able to but that's just an opinion. There's a huge difference between burying a wrestler and labeling a wrestler as being buried just because the company isn't doing with said wrestler what you personally would prefer.

If you want a perfect example of someone that's being buried, look no further than Ryback. He's being buried because management isn't happy with his lack of development in the ring or on the mic, in spite of the huge push he was in the middle of at this time last year. He's thought of as extremely stiff and reckless in the ring, with his latest incident being that he gave Dolph Ziggler his second concussion in roughly a 6month time period. He's also being buried because he's, allegedly, voiced that he doesn't like interacting with fans at meet & greets and that he doesn't enjoy talking to the media in order to hype & represent the company. As a result of these factors.

I'm not saying that every burial is justified or warranted, don't get me wrong there, but I think that Ryback's a clear cut case of one that's warranted. Sometimes, a wrestler's push is stopped because the company has lost faith in the guy. Sometimes, someone else comes along that's been impressing management, has been getting over with fans and has been doing well in the ring and/or on the mic. As a result, the company will switch gears and put their energy into developing that person. It happens all the time in pro wrestling, not just in WWE. It's just the nature of the beast. Six months from now, for example, Sami Zayn might be brought up to the main roster and maybe he'll impress WWE officials enough to take Big E. Langston's current spot.

 

[rbv13]

This is one of the hottest and commonly debated topics of the IWC. No matter where the argument is made there is a split in opinion and the arguments are always the same. I happen to fall on the side of the fence that sees these “buried” conspiracies are complete bullshit but to each their own.

The only people I can say for sure that have been “buried” include Paul Bearer, Taker, and Mankind.

For those on the other side I do wonder what it is you expect from the E? I regularly see names like Bryan, Barrett, Ziggler, Sandow and Ryder. With the exception of Ryder the others receive air time every week across the complete spectrum of E programming. There are only so many top spots and top story lines. Who do you want moved down and how would you change the stories? I’m asking for scenarios that make sense business wise and not what makes your pecker hard.

 

[DB-Fan]

While I agree the term "burial" is too extreme for what Vince/HHH want to do with Daniel Bryan, I'm shocked that every seasoned wresting fan here can't at least acknowledge that this particular storyline, with it's elimination of Bryan's intro music, "Yes" chant down the ramp, etc isn't an attempt to kill his live crowd buzz. That's clearly what this is all about. Sure, if they get Bray more over using this stupid angle then all the better as far as Vince is concerned. But the primary reason they are using this particular angle, where they can strip Daniel Bryan of all the things that cause the crowd to pop for him, is to kill his buzz. It may not be a "burial" in the strict sense of the word, but it's clearly designed to take the shine off his overwhelming popularity. Which is very stupid, but not surprising when you've followed the egos of Vince McMahon and Paul Levesque for the last 15 to 20 years.

 

[Cody Trail]

While I agree the term "burial" is too extreme for what Vince/HHH want to do with Daniel Bryan, I'm shocked that every seasoned wresting fan here can't at least acknowledge that this particular storyline, with it's elimination of Bryan's intro music, "Yes" chant down the ramp, etc isn't an attempt to kill his live crowd buzz. That's clearly what this is all about. Sure, if they get Bray more over using this stupid angle then all the better as far as Vince is concerned. But the primary reason they are using this particular angle, where they can strip Daniel Bryan of all the things that cause the crowd to pop for him, is to kill his buzz. It may not be a "burial" in the strict sense of the word, but it's clearly designed to take the shine off his overwhelming popularity. Which is very stupid, but not surprising when you've followed the egos of Vince McMahon and Paul Levesque for the last 15 to 20 years.

Just another post-push de-push, which brings up a serious question...

Outside of CM Punk, has WWE legitimately wanted to make ANYONE a star since 2008? It's like going PG killed either their ability, their willingness, or both.

 

[DB-Fan]

Just another post-push de-push, which brings up a serious question...

Outside of CM Punk, has WWE legitimately wanted to make ANYONE a star since 2008? It's like going PG killed either their ability, their willingness, or both.

I think Vince & Co would have loved it if it were one of their home-grown boys who was getting over like Daniel. Look at how he jumped on the Fandango chants and pushed them down our throats literally days after that NY Raw crowd. Vince made sure we all knew the whole world was Fandango-ing. Not Bryan's "Yes" chant though. It's been done in arenas since the Miami Wrestlemania, and was on ESPN this past week and yet Vince doesn't publish it or push it at all. Why? Simple. It's not one of his boys, so he treats it differently. But if these crowd pops were going for any one of dozens of other typical WWE guys, he'd be all over it.

 

[#tamale]

Burial only applies to the internet's flavor of the month. Somebody posted it here and it's worth repeating. Ryback has been buried. The internet doesn't love him. So, instead of burial, it's "the WWE sees what we see." Bryan is a constant fixture in the main event scene on Raw, but because he's not in that situation as fantasy booking would have him, then it's cries of burial.

I think Vince & Co would have loved it if it were one of their home-grown boys who was getting over like Daniel.

Call me when Bryan is able to stay on top as long as Cena, The Rock, Batista, Orton, etc.

 

[DB-Fan]

Call me when Bryan is able to stay on top as long as Cena, The Rock, Batista, Orton, etc.

Call me when the WWE brass stick it to one of those guys like they have to Bryan.

Seriously. How can a guy be expected to "stay on top" when they have everything the crowd is connecting with pulled out from under their feet. Let's have The Rock come out to The Wyatt's music, no longer allowed to use any of his catchphrases, and be booked into a rotten angle and see if his pop is just as loud after a month. Guarantee you even he would see some of the live crowd sizzle die down. No one can withstand having all of their signature items removed (intro music, catchphrases, mannerisms, etc) and NOT lose momentum with the crowd.