Building Crimson; "The Streak"

[It's Damn Real!]

Gotta say, I love this kid, but is it a little early to be building him with a "streak" angle? Going undefeated for a portion of time is a great tool to get a guy over, and Crimson could certainly benefit from the push, but is it too soon?

"The Streak" angle has been used to build guys into unbelievable monsters/main eventers in the past — most recently with Samoa Joe in his early TNA career, and the ever-obvious Goldberg back in WCW all those years ago, but in Joe's case he was already well known from his ROH days. Goldberg, on the other hand, was actually built from the ground up.

Call me crazy, but I actually think Crimson shares a lot of the same Goldberg-esque traits that could conceivably turn him into the Goldberg of this generation if this angle is pushed properly.

Thoughts on the angle? Is the streak too soon? Is it being "wasted" on a guy as young (and somewhat green) as Crimson?

 

[Joe's Gonna Kill You]

I really like Crimson ALOT and I think he has a ton of potential and I think he could be a Future World champion one day in TNA. I also can see the similarities between Crimson and Goldberg. Crimson is physically impressive and It looks like he could be pretty good in the ring he is strong and pretty agile for guy his size but he is a kind of green. I also liked what they did before the match talking to Joe and him doing a good job of putting over Crimson's ability. I think if they handle Crimson properly I think he could be a Star for TNA. I'm really interested in seeing what they do with Crimson.

 

[bigandpissed]

I kinda like the idea. I mean, I don't see any other young wrestlers (in either company) who have the look or the main event potential to be able to believably be unbeatable.

 

[shattered dreams]

Crimson certainly needs something. He might be a little raw but he has crazy potential. The best thing about a streak storyline is that he can do the slower build that he needs but still not get lost in the shuffle because it always means something.

 

[wushady]

I think Crimson has a ton of potential to be a huge star in TNA. As long as he is booked right the Streak angle will work. It should make him look like a legitimate bad ass. It worked very well for Samoa Joe, Goldberg and Lesnar in the past. It's a storyline that hasn't been done too often in any company. Obviously it wouldn't work for many wrestlers but Crimson has the look and size to make it believable.

 

[SpecialFNK]

I like the streak.
it pretty much has to be this early with Crimson though right? it's an undefeated streak, so since Crimson is there now you don't want him to lose and then if he started winning it wouldn't really be an undefeated streak.
I also like how in last nights match it was a no contest. he can have some matches where he doesn't have to get clean win to keep the streak alive. time wise the streak can go on, but it doesn't have to feel like the pressure is on him all the time to win every single match he is involved in.

 

[neildittmar]

Whenever someone says the streak, parallels and comparisons with the Undertaker are immediately drawn, whether TNA likes it or not. That said, I think the verdict is out on whether Crimsons "streak" will be something of importance in getting him over and building his character. What I am sure of is that TNA has potentially made a critical error in calling the period of time Crimson remains undefeated as "a streak."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that WWE essentially has patent and trademark on "the streak" and no wrestler should ever use it, ever. What I'm saying is that "the streak" is synonomous with a huge star in WWE right now, regardless of how often said star is on TV or actually wrestles for the promotion. I fear that by using the term "streak" consistently, as the announce team was prone to do last night, it may stall out any push that Crimson might receive from his undefeated record. That is, his "streak" will be constantly compared to the quantity/quality of the Undertakers "streak" and will ultimately hurt him.

Truthfully, I'm not sold on Crimson being the Next Big Thing (pun intended) just yet. An undefeated run may certainly help him, considering he is a big, strong kid who could benefit from a little "extra something" to help put him over. Calling it "the streak" though, considering what that means to the competition and who it is meant for? I'm not so sure that's a wise move and could serve to derail this kid before he has even really started on the track.

 

[Rayne]

In theory, it could work, if you let Crimson's 'streak' build up as an organic thing. Don't tell the fans directly about it; have him go out there, stomp a different guy each week, and have the announcers progressively bring it up. Move from "this kid Crimson's been really hot lately" to "you know, I can't remember the last time this Crimson kid lost." Let the fans figure it out for themselves, because they'll attach themselves to him more readily then they would if they were told "you should like this guy because of his STREAK!!!!"

Even Goldberg's streak, the one by which all others are mentioned, started off slowly and built up.

However, this is TNA. They are going to hype the shit out of this angle, ram it down people's throats, and wonder why people aren't buying into Crimson for the long-term. This thread is evidence of that; TNA started in consciously telling people they were working a streak angle. There's no character curiousity as there was with Goldberg; we already are being told what to expect. Crimson is going to win a lot of matches in the near future. He will face adversity from forces perceived as more powerful then he, which he shall overcome in dominating fashion. Why tell people you're building a streak angle if you're planning to have him lose right afterwards? (Although this is the kind of swerve-for-swerve's-sake move TNA's made lately....)

Crimson's not too green for the angle; it doesn't work all that well when the guy isn't green. However, he's in the wrong promotion to make it work; the streak storyline is a subtle one, and TNA's idea of subtlety is hitting someone in the face with a brick.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

In theory, it could work, if you let Crimson's 'streak' build up as an organic thing. Don't tell the fans directly about it; have him go out there, stomp a different guy each week, and have the announcers progressively bring it up. Move from "this kid Crimson's been really hot lately" to "you know, I can't remember the last time this Crimson kid lost." Let the fans figure it out for themselves, because they'll attach themselves to him more readily then they would if they were told "you should like this guy because of his STREAK!!!!"

Even Goldberg's streak, the one by which all others are mentioned, started off slowly and built up.

However, this is TNA. They are going to hype the shit out of this angle, ram it down people's throats, and wonder why people aren't buying into Crimson for the long-term. This thread is evidence of that; TNA started in consciously telling people they were working a streak angle. There's no character curiousity as there was with Goldberg; we already are being told what to expect. Crimson is going to win a lot of matches in the near future. He will face adversity from forces perceived as more powerful then he, which he shall overcome in dominating fashion. Why tell people you're building a streak angle if you're planning to have him lose right afterwards? (Although this is the kind of swerve-for-swerve's-sake move TNA's made lately....)

Crimson's not too green for the angle; it doesn't work all that well when the guy isn't green. However, he's in the wrong promotion to make it work; the streak storyline is a subtle one, and TNA's idea of subtlety is hitting someone in the face with a brick.

You do realize that people would figure it out after he piles up at least two more wins, right? Whether they talk about the streak now and basically tell us that this kid is going to have one, or if they do it later really makes no difference. They're still doing it. Fans are going to catch what's happening two weeks from now. It's really irrelevant. Start hyping it now and let it build. You're going to have to do it anyway. I don't see what the problem is. It's not making the storyline less enjoyable, it's not hurting Crimson's character, it's not ruining the match. What's the issue? Oh that's right, nit picking. Fuck me.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I thought this was pretty laughable. Listening to Tenay & Taz try to hype Crimson's "streak" just didn't work at all. It's far too soon to be trying something like this with Crimson. The guy's had, what, maybe 3 or 4 matches thus far?

However, since it's likely that TNA is going to go forward with this, they need to avoid match finishes like the one Crimson had with Joe last night. If TNA wants Crimson's streak to seem even remotely relevant, then don't do non finishes in the future or give him cheap wins through DQ or count out. If you want him to seem like a badass then book him like a badass. They started this thing off on the wrong foot last night.

 

[AntiChristDeicide]

I thought this was pretty laughable. Listening to Tenay & Taz try to hype Crimson's "streak" just didn't work at all. It's far too soon to be trying something like this with Crimson. The guy's had, what, maybe 3 or 4 matches thus far?

However, since it's likely that TNA is going to go forward with this, they need to avoid match finishes like the one Crimson had with Joe last night. If TNA wants Crimson's streak to seem even remotely relevant, then don't do non finishes in the future or give him cheap wins through DQ or count out. If you want him to seem like a badass then book him like a badass. They started this thing off on the wrong foot last night.

You know i like this streak idea especially for Crimson. People here were criticizing that they (TNA) were doing nothing with him, now they (TNA) is doing the streak angle for him and yet people are still not satisfied. What the hell make up your minds. By the way the finish that happened last night was logical, remember Crimson sidelined Abyss months ago so Abyss wants revenge. Looks to me that TNA are not forgetting past angles these days.

 

[DethMetal]

I like Crimson. He has potential. He's a little raw, but he needs something. So yeah, this could work. Just don't exaggerate it like with Goldberg. One week he was 20-0, the next, 45-0. i think it should be. TNA hasn't really had a big dominant, "unable to take down" guy in a while. Let it be Crimson. Hopefully, he can break from his Amazing Red cousin thing. Was that really the only way to bring him in? I would've liked a feud where Crimson is his enemy rather than ally. It looks like he's gonna feud with Abyss though, so I don't know.

 

[Rayne]

You do realize that people would figure it out after he piles up at least two more wins, right? Whether they talk about the streak now and basically tell us that this kid is going to have one, or if they do it later really makes no difference. They're still doing it. Fans are going to catch what's happening two weeks from now. It's really irrelevant. Start hyping it now and let it build. You're going to have to do it anyway. I don't see what the problem is. It's not making the storyline less enjoyable, it's not hurting Crimson's character, it's not ruining the match. What's the issue? Oh that's right, nit picking. Fuck me.

You give the fan base WAY too much credit. I was thinking somewhere in the area of a few months. It took people more then half a year to notice HHH hadn't lost a match since he started. (HHH being another example of how to use a 'streak' storyline, unfortunately they squandered that to the Ultimate Warrior's return.) The problem, as was adequately explained, is the perception of liking something for yourself versus being told what you are expected to like.

Knowing that professional wrestling is scripted entertainment, it is incredibly hard to maintain my suspension of disbelief when a guy who's barely been used after his appearance is all of the sudden the hot guy with the streak. It feels heavy handed and forced. Call the desire to think for myself "nitpicking", if you really want. Doesn't make it any less wrong, it merely underlines the differences in what we expect from our entertainment.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I like Crimson. He has potential. He's a little raw, but he needs something. So yeah, this could work. Just don't exaggerate it like with Goldberg. One week he was 20-0, the next, 45-0. i think it should be. TNA hasn't really had a big dominant, "unable to take down" guy in a while. Let it be Crimson. Hopefully, he can break from his Amazing Red cousin thing. Was that really the only way to bring him in? I would've liked a feud where Crimson is his enemy rather than ally. It looks like he's gonna feud with Abyss though, so I don't know.

I don't think TNA realized who and what Crimson is when they signed him, so they gave him this stupid Amazing Red's cousing thing. I can understand where they got the idea. It would've been a fine little tag-team, but then he showed promise, they wanted to include him in the M.E.M storyline but that fell apart. I'm just glad TNA is not losing him into the shuffle. Crimson is just ... different. He's got that "it" thing that very, very few people in TNA have and even less in WWE.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I pretty much agree with what Rayne and Jack-hammer have said. The undefeated streak is one of the best methods to get a guy of the size of Crimson over. Crimson has looked impressive so far and does seem to have the natural charisma like some of the better big men wrestlers like Goldberg and Batista.

That being said, there is no need to overhype the streak so soon. The guy has only 3-4 wins and it is not so impressive a feat at this point. They need to let this story develop and push Crimson over a long period of time. With Sting, RVD and Anderson in the main event and guys like Matt Morgan and AJ Styles sniffing at it, the main event scene is stacked. Crimson can go about dominating the midcard and when the time is right, he can be pushed to the main event picture.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

You know i like this streak idea especially for Crimson. People here were criticizing that they (TNA) were doing nothing with him, now they (TNA) is doing the streak angle for him and yet people are still not satisfied. What the hell make up your minds.

I can't say that I've criticized them for it because, truth is, the guy hasn't really been on the radar. Aside from having a good look, I can't say as I've seen anything overly special about the guy. I mean, yeah, he's a pretty big guy with tattoos and he makes real mean faces a lot. But, as I said, this makes maybe the 4th match or so I've seen the guy wrestle and I'm just not impressed. If they cut the guy tomorrow, I can't say that I'd care one way or the other.

By the way the finish that happened last night was logical, remember Crimson sidelined Abyss months ago so Abyss wants revenge. Looks to me that TNA are not forgetting past angles these days.

Yes I know all about the thing with Abyss. My criticism of the match ending had nothing to do with Abyss' presence, it was the fact that he interfered with the match before a winner could be determined. It seems that TNA is about to start trying to establish Crimson as some sort of badass and has hyped this "undefeated streak" he has in TNA. With last night being the first time they've brought any of this "streak" stuff up, it would have been better to have him go over Samoa Joe in a clean victory. Joe's not much in TNA these days but everyone knows of his accomplishments in his glory days and he's a TNA Original. A victory against him for Crimson would've given Crimson credibility and gotten this "streak" angle off to a good start. Then, as Crimson celebrates the biggest victory of his young career, bring Abyss in and beat him down to set up an upcoming feud.

 

[JJYanks121]

I used to be high on Crimson. His look was good and he's a young guy that looked to have potential. After seeing him last night, I know for a fact that he has very little potential, if any.

I'm sorry, but you can't be a badass and struggle to lift Samoa Joe. You just can't. Watch the big pushes of guys like Goldberg and Brock Lesnar. These men caught people's attention when the lifted men much larger than Joe. Both men were known for doing moves to Paul Wight (Giant or Big Show) as Goldberg Jackhammered him while Lesnar F-5 and Superplaex him to hell. Crimson couldn't get a 300 pound man up for a simple suplex. What does that tell you?

It's not just that either. His strikes are weak and he just looks lost in the ring. The match with Joe was incredibly sloppy and lacked any sort of flow. Maybe they lacked chemistry but it was an awful match and as I stated in my article last night, Gunner impressed me way more than this guy. Gunner had solid offense and looked good in the ring. Crimson looked downright pathetic and it was sad. Granted, Goldberg was no master in the ring, but his pure power made him a badass. Without power, all Crimson has is an intense looked that he can't back up.

In the worst of NorCal, Crimson needs to PUMP IRON BITCH! If you wanna be a bad ass, you gotta have crazy strength. Even Ken Shamrock had that. Crimson still doesn't.

I've lost so much love for the guy over the last month. Nowadays, all I see is a tall ginger who is bland as all hell. He "looks mean" and that's it. Gunner looks mean too, but at least he's competant in the ring. Granted, the midcard workers in TNA don't get a ton of time to build their characters so we don't quite know what these guys COULD be, but if they are trying to tell me Crimson is going to be undefeated because he's tougher then everyone, I'm not buying it. This guy needs A LOT of work and would be a guy that could greatly utilize a farm system, something TNA desperately needs. Some training in the ring and work with guys who have been on TV could go a long way to helping him. At this point, he's a tall indy guy who was a badass against midget indy workers, but he's with the big boys now and he can't hack it. I'm sorry, but it's the truth.

As for the streak, you don't acknowledge it until months in if you are going to do it. The WWE has tried it with tons of guys, from Sheamus to Vladimir Koslov. It was an idea that worked a couple of times but it takes a unique talent to make it work. If I was a promoter, I would never utilize the idea of a streak. You can build up a guy by having him beat jobbers and midcarders and stuff, but there's no need to try and push the idea of a streak, none. It's not a good idea, and certainly not a good idea for Crimson who can't back it up.

 

[Lucid]

To me, the streak angle doesn't look organic at all. I mean, there was already an organic feud started by hitting Abyss with Janice and so on. So it seems overdone to add the whole streak thing on top of it. It seems that TNA is saying "Hey, Crimson is going to beat Abyss a few times!" If I already know this, why tune in at all?

 

[blockanWo]

I thought this was pretty laughable. Listening to Tenay & Taz try to hype Crimson's "streak" just didn't work at all. It's far too soon to be trying something like this with Crimson. The guy's had, what, maybe 3 or 4 matches thus far?.

I totally agree. Its a bit of a joke right now. Hes primarily been tagging with Steiner, he hasnt been pinned directly but its not like hes won any decent matches. His match with Joe was event a No Contest. So while sure, hes hasnt been pinned or submitted, he really hasnt won to many.

Nontheless I do like Crimson and hope they run with him.

 

[blockanWo]

I'm sorry, but you can't be a badass and struggle to lift Samoa Joe. You just can't. Watch the big pushes of guys like Goldberg and Brock Lesnar. These men caught people's attention when the lifted men much larger than Joe. Both men were known for doing moves to Paul Wight (Giant or Big Show) as Goldberg Jackhammered him while Lesnar F-5 and Superplaex him to hell. Crimson couldn't get a 300 pound man up for a simple suplex. What does that tell you?

To be completely fair, Joe was not giving Crimson any favors during that match, including on that suplex. He looked slow and lazy (watch when he has Crimson on the fence, and he runs to him, never seen him run so slow in my life). When doing a power move to a big man like the Big Show, I mean sure the guy doing the heavy lifting needs some serious power, but they also need a hell of a lot of help from the "victim".

 

[SpecialFNK]

Whenever someone says the streak, parallels and comparisons with the Undertaker are immediately drawn, whether TNA likes it or not. That said, I think the verdict is out on whether Crimsons "streak" will be something of importance in getting him over and building his character. What I am sure of is that TNA has potentially made a critical error in calling the period of time Crimson remains undefeated as "a streak."

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that WWE essentially has patent and trademark on "the streak" and no wrestler should ever use it, ever. What I'm saying is that "the streak" is synonomous with a huge star in WWE right now, regardless of how often said star is on TV or actually wrestles for the promotion. I fear that by using the term "streak" consistently, as the announce team was prone to do last night, it may stall out any push that Crimson might receive from his undefeated record. That is, his "streak" will be constantly compared to the quantity/quality of the Undertakers "streak" and will ultimately hurt him.

Truthfully, I'm not sold on Crimson being the Next Big Thing (pun intended) just yet. An undefeated run may certainly help him, considering he is a big, strong kid who could benefit from a little "extra something" to help put him over. Calling it "the streak" though, considering what that means to the competition and who it is meant for? I'm not so sure that's a wise move and could serve to derail this kid before he has even really started on the track.

I'm going to have to go ahead and completely disagree.
Undertakers "streak" is only at Wrestlemania. that's it, ONE PPV. in wrestling if you are talking about an undefeated streak, I think it's all about Goldberg. that's WCW and nothing to do with WWE. yes I know WWE bought WCW and everything connected with it, but at the time it was WCW and not WWE.
even using the word "streak", it's not just connected to wrestling. sports teams and athletes are on streaks all the time.
TNA is using this undefeated streak to start Crimson's career in TNA.

 

[JJYanks121]

To be completely fair, Joe was not giving Crimson any favors during that match, including on that suplex. He looked slow and lazy (watch when he has Crimson on the fence, and he runs to him, never seen him run so slow in my life). When doing a power move to a big man like the Big Show, I mean sure the guy doing the heavy lifting needs some serious power, but they also need a hell of a lot of help from the "victim".

You make good points and I agree with you. However, this guy is supposed to be a "monster" right? The monsters that have always fared best have legit looked nasty out there. The ones that stand out for me are Vader and Ken Shamrock. Vader always looked like he was brutal with people and it gave that sense that he could kill you at there. He was intimidating and you didn't want to get in the ring with him. Shamrock had the look of nutcase and roid rage rolled into the madness that was his character. He was billed as "the world's most dangerous man" and you believed it. When he locked the ankle lock on, he looked like he would just as soon rip your leg completely off. THAT is intensity.

Lesnar had that too. The way he hurled people around showed he wouldn't take prisoners and such. Maybe it's the opponents, but I'm not even close to buying it with Crimson. If you want to do this "streak" thing, you don't debut him the way they did. You debut him as the brother if you want, then he wins a match to held Red, then starts just kiling lower to midcard talent. He doesn't see a Joe until later on when he gets his "first real test". It might work if you do it that way, but I still don't like it.

To me, it feels like Bischoff and Hogan were in with creative and they were like "ok, what can we do that has worked before?"

"Well, we lucked across Goldberg's streak, people liked that!"

"Ok let's do that!"

People have called Bischoff a one trick pony. Here is trick #2 and it wasn't even his idea. It was something they fell ass backwards into and it worked with Goldberg. The problem here is two-fold. Goldberg was perfect for it as he won squashes, was incredibly strong, and he came off instilling fear in his opponents. Crimson does none of these things. The other problem is that once you do a streak, it's been done. Actually, it's been done for literally every big man for the last 50 years. You debut a guy and have him beat jobbers until they bill him as undefeated and then the babyface takes him down to get a big rub. That's how every monster was booked for Hogan and it continued in WWF and WCW. Goldberg started as a heel but somehow the streak turned him face and he got over. You can't just expect to create another Goldberg with the EXACT SAME PUSH. It will not work and it's already not working. If you are going to do the streak, you can't have him NOT LOSE, he has to WIN. There's a major, major difference.

All the same, it won't matter. Crimson is incredibly green and really offers nothing. IF he's 4 inches shorter, he's nothing. If you want to build this kid, fine. It's better than building Pope's annoying self. However, build him with some sort of character. This "I'm intense but not really" schtick has already seen its bluff called.

And yes, Joe sucked last night. He's getting fatter, slower, and more awful each week. Might be time to simply cut his fat ass and not hire him back unless he drops like 75 pounds.

 

[blockanWo]

Yeah the thing with Lesnar (and for that matter Goldberg) is they were given small guys to just absolutely destroy. Lesnar would take on the Hardy Boys, triple powerbomb them and throw them into ladders. Did the same to Spike Dudley on numerous occasions.

I think giving Crimson the task of looking like the "powerful monster" type while facing Joe was not the best move. But one would assume a simple suplex is not the most difficult of tasks.

Im actually somewhat confused at their angle with him, the monster thing has me a little iffy. He could very well fit that category of a monster, I think he would make a better small crazy monster much like Shamrock was, he wasnt built like Lesnar but he was intense. I think Crimson oozes with intensity and they need to have him go up against fast paced wrestlers, have Crimson decimate them with high impact, high speed moves and come out the other side looking like a million bucks. The problem is, theyve also got Gunner who is also looking like that small crazy guy.

 

[He's Phenomenal]

Crimson has made a big impression since his debut and looks like someone who has unlimited potential. When the streak thing was brought up on iMPACT! I did think it was a little too soon to acknowledge it. Obviously when you hear the word “streak” in pro wrestling, you automatically think of Goldberg and the 100s of matches he won. However I don’t see Crimson’s streak being anything like that.

Hopefully he will just be this unstoppable force that can dominate any opponent (much like Goldberg) he’s in the ring with. He definitely has the look and intensity to pull of that type of character. Would be good to see him and Gunner dominate for a few months and then face off against each other for the TV Title.

I saw it mentioned that Crimson botched a Suplex on Joe? So? All wrestlers botch moves. Hell I even see Kurt Angle do it at Lockdown! And to be fair to Crimson, Joe looked like a fat shit who couldn’t be bothered. Matt Morgan’s a big dude but you can guarantee Crimson would Suplex him with ease (because Morgan would assist him).

 

[blockanWo]

I saw it mentioned that Crimson botched a Suplex on Joe? So? All wrestlers botch moves. Hell I even see Kurt Angle do it at Lockdown! And to be fair to Crimson, Joe looked like a fat shit who couldn’t be bothered. Matt Morgan’s a big dude but you can guarantee Crimson would Suplex him with ease (because Morgan would assist him).

It shouldn't really be called a botch. It was more he just couldn't get him over properly. Im pretty sure he was going for a suplex into a front driver type move and didnt get him high enough for it. But as you and I have said, Joe flat out looked like he could not be bothered. He was doing Crimson no favors and I dont care if you are Brock Lesnar, Goldberg or Crimson. Essentially lifting a dead weight in Joe is not an easy task.