Bret Hart wrestling with shadows.

[thewholedamnshow]

I just watched this doc again, and i kind of found it weird that it was filmed around the same time as the screwjob. now I apologise if this has been said before but do you think this just leads to more of a work? its like why would the camera crew decide to film this part of brets career?

like correct me if im wrong here

 

[nbkush]

you should appologize. this whole situation has been annalyzed from every angle. You are a true mark if you think that Vince wanted any of this footage released. Vince participated, just as he did with the documentary "Beyond the Mat", but once he felt that he and the WWF were being portrayed in a negative fashion he pulled out and threatened lawsuits. I'm correcting you.

 

[thewholedamnshow]

well i agree with you on Vince being against it and such. But this "doc'' was made pre Montreal screwjob is all im saying, at least its made out to be that way. It kinda makes me think that this was the whole intention all along. Sure Paul Jay wanted to document Brets life in WWF on the last legs of his contract. But it could have ended bland as fuck. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_With_Shadows, now i know its wikipedia but it says they started filimin in 1996.

 

[hunterXhunter21]

I sometimes think it could be a work too. Bret was on his way out and they came up with this idea. Kinda like when I forget who was let go of I think ECW went to WWF but didn't make it back. I think it was Pillman. Then we had the whole BD thing. I'm sure when they fired him they knew when he would be coming back. But back on Bret. To pull something off like that and have it all be faked would be near impossible. I just think someone would have cracked by now. Like Bret's wife. Would he have kept her in the dark and worked his whole family plus the boys in the back?? They would not have been able to keep it hush hush. Someone would have put out a tell all book and cashed in on it. But let's say they worked everyone. Why has it taken this long for Bret to come back to Raw? Why not put Bret in the HOF at WM 20 or 21? Why didn't they bring a DVD when they got all the WCW footage? In the end I say it was all real. Has the thought crossed my mind that it was faked? Yes. But it moves out pretty fast. Who knows maybe when Bret is on his death bed he will talk. But I think they were filming it cause wrestling was hot and Bret was one of the biggest stars at the time.

 

[thewholedamnshow]

You have a point hunter, I think they may have just lucked out on filming Bret in his final days. Its true though I think if it truly was a work think about it they could have had a returning Hitman vs. Hbk at a Mania for the ultimate cash in. But I think it was hashed over to long by all parties (HBK, BRET, VINCE) and it resulted in today’s after math. But who knows maybe it was expected by Vince, But Goldberg ruined it?

 

[nbkush]

you both are idiots. Did Vince promote or profit from this doc? NO. Vince and the WWF were not portrayed in a favorable manner. What don't you understand? For this to be a work Vince would have had complete control over the footage and would have incorporated it into the storyline. You both give wrestling fans a bad name.

 

[thewholedamnshow]

Does/did Vince have to promote/profit from this? No he didn’t have to. It was recorded at the start of (what i belive started) the attitude era. which I would say the initial on screen Vince character was made as an outcome. Vince may have not got portrayed in a "favourable" manner but it was still documented, so super fan you say we give a bad name how do you know the screwjob wasnt a work? I mean its so heated its talked about to this day? Even after it was "resolved" Kinda makes me wonder?

 

[Carpathian Florist]

The fact that during the documentary Bret decides to stay with the WWF out of loyalty, only for Vince to change the plans on him should indicate that it wasn't a set up from the beginning. Vince doesn't like his company being portrayed negatively, so why would he purposefully script himself coming off like a disloyal ********? It doesn't make any sense. Especially at a time when WCW was just beginning to compete properly with him. After the steroids scandal that rocked his company, why would he intentionally court another scandal involving Bret? With Bret's contract up and being one of the bigger stars that WCW wanted to acquire, it would mean a bit of controversy, which is possibly why the film crew probably wanted to film it at that particular time.

 

[thewholedamnshow]

my whole skeptisim from the start was the whole camera crew doc setup, i know there was the whole vince not wanting to be portryed negativly after Alundra Blayze deal. and as far as the last dude who posted he makes me seem like a wcw fan haha i couldnt fucking careless bout wcw

 

[MMK]

I can understand why someone would think it was all a work, but in reality the screwjob occurring while they were filming was just a coincidence. Bret was only trying to make a documentary about life on the road and the behind the scenes world of wrestling, which frankly he deserves a lot of credit for as no one to my knowledge did anything like that before while still working for WWE or any other organization.

The fact that Bret's time with WWE came to an end the way it did while they were making a documentary I would say was just a coincidence. ALTHOUGH I do believe Bret had an inclination that Vince might try to screw him over as why else would he have recorded such relatively mundane scenes such as Vince and him discussing how the match would end. He must have wanted that on tape in case they tried anything. And it's a good thing he did because without a lot of that audio and video footage, Vince and HBK might have gotten away with their version of the story which could easily be disproved thanks to the documentary.

 

[MarysesPantiesInMyMouth]

I think it was just a co-inky dink. It wasnt a work. On 9/11/2001 a filn crew happened to be doing a documentary on a firedepartment in Manhattan, and the first plane hit the tower while they were filming, which gave us the rare vidoe of the 1st plane hitting.. Does that mean the department and film crew knew it was gonna happen? Sometimes shit just happens when ur filming something.

 

[Gardocki]

This doc was actually apart of the deal Bret Hart signed in 1996 when he came back. So no, this wasn't done at the start of the Attitude Era, and it was not a work.

There's a copy of Wrestling with Shadows that you can get with an hour and half long interview that both Bret and Paul Jay did about a year after the doc was finished. Paul talked about how they didn't really have an ending to the doc, and how lucky they were that this happened to Bret, otherwise there wouldn't have been any kind of an end. I know this interview is on a VHS release, I have the DVD and it's not on there.

It's always funny when people think this was a work.

 

[Kenny Powers]

This is a great documentary, but its not a work. Director Paul Jay was doing the documentary with Bret before the incident in Montreal. He became extremely lucky that his documentary became as popular as it did with the Montreal screw job incident. WWE signed off on the project but soon reneged when they found out Paul Jay was covering the Montreal incident. Paul Jay was contemplating suing WWE for getting out of their contract of letting them use WWE footage.

When Bret left to WCW, WCW was going to buy the rights to the film and they offered Paul Jay a lot more money then WWE offered him. Ultimately though in the interview Paul Jay did with Bret Hart on the DVD, he said the WWE allowed him to use their footage. Another great addition to the DVD would be the interview with Bret Hart ten years after the DVD release. Bret covers everything from the incident to Owen's death, his misuse in WCW, and his two strokes. From the interview you would never have thought Bret would ever be in WWE ever again.

It's a great documentary but it's not a work.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

It was sheer luck that the screwjob happened when they were filming the documentary. It was done to chronicle a period of time in Bret's life that ended up with him leaving the WWF and joining WCW.

It is great for Bret that their is a taped recording of Vince telling him the agreed ending of the match, before it was changed without Brets knowledge

Definitely not a work dude

 

[kurt_angle_no1fan]

Wrestling with Shadows aided the "Mr McMahon" character. He was born the minute Bret spat on him and this Documentary made people hate Vince even more. Both men profited from this immensley.

Bret is very old skool, Vince is a creative genius - it wouldnt suprise me if the whole thing was actually a work of some sort. Its possible the relationship grew "really" sour when Owen died.

As things stand I believe it wasnt a work and it was pure luck. But I wouldnt rule out Vince "seeing into thew future" and what this could do for his character.