Bret Hart winning his FIRST WWF title

[The Idiot]

I was reading a thread here in the Old School Wrestling forum and the topic of Bret Hart winning the title over Flair in Saskatoon. This was on a taping of WWF Superstars that was not originally broadcast on television. The only way you could see the match was by finding it at your local Blockbuster on VHS in the WWF Home video releases.

So it got me thinking, we have one of the very best of all time, winning the most important title in all of professional wrestling for the FIRST time (always the most memorable)...yet it happens this way??

Sure, a win over Flair is great. He made the legend tap, beat him fair in square, and propelled himself into the main event. But then you look at his peers with this first title wins:

Savage @ WM 4 - Winning the huge tournament in dramatic fashion

Michaels @ WM 12 - Need I say anything?

Ric Flair - Winning the greatest Royal Rumble EVER

Steve Austin @ WM 14 - Classic match in a well booked storyline, the start of the attitude era.

Mic Foley on Raw - Sure Bischoff ruined it....but damn was it exciting and memorable.

Hulk Hogan - We all remember the famous MSG match against the Iron Sheik


Fast forward to Bret Hart. We have Mean Gene Okerlund announcing to the fans that Bret Hart had won the WWF championship a week earlier by beating Ric Flair in Canada. A little anti-climatic??? Just a little.

Your thoughts...and how it would have been better.

 

[The Brain]

I actually kind of liked it the way it happened. It was such a surprise. That title win came out of nowhere. I remember Mean Gene saying please welcome the new world champion. A few seconds seemed like a few minutes as I sat in suspense and I couldn’t believe it was Hart. Had Hart built up a feud with Flair that lead to a ppv title match a win may have still been a bit of a surprise but nowhere near the shock of Hart coming out with the title on a random Superstars show. The more traditional way is typically the better way to go, but a huge surprise is nice once in a great while. I will say though that a well hyped televised rematch in which Hart successfully defended the title against Flair would have been nice.

 

[Pedigree1]

i was around 14 at that time and i was so happy!! True i wasnt a historian like i am now i have heard of flair but it was all hart for me!! I even had the glasses he had.. Also i had a shirt so i was estatic when he won his first title!! Well deserved but damnit i wanted to see the match on TV not hear about it but nonetheless i was happy!! Actually enjoyed it and have seen the match. Making a true legend tap out to the dreaded sharpshooter was simply amazing!!

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

It's a move that looks bad in hindsight because it is something that has never happened since in the WWF/E with the WWF title. Therefore, winning it in that fashion isn't exactly conventional. I mean, there was this incident of Edge winning the IC title from Jarrett on a house show in 1999 but I do not think that the situation is remotely comparable.

Anyhow, I can see how it can be a cool moment when it did actually happen in 1992. Imagine Okerlund announcing the entry of the WWF Champion and everybody is expecting Flair to come out and suddenly you have Bret Hart in the middle of the ring. Like Brain said, that kind of a move could be good if done once in a long time and can actually boost the ratings of the show and the attendance of the house shows.

As for the anti-climatic part, it is not as if this was Hart's last title victory. He went on to have some of the most emotionally satisfying victories later in his career. So at the end of the day it did not matter much to his legacy.

 

[GameOver]

Ric flair was leaving, they had to take the title off him.
and even for us in other countries that may have been months behind when it came to the next PPV they did a recap of him winning the title off Flair

Do you remember Edge also won a singles title out of nowhere, on a house show the night b4 Fully Loaded. Granted it wasn't a world title but it was the IC title and he lost it the following night on the PPV

these things happen. I don't think it takes away from the accomplishment, if anything it gives someone a buzz, there is a select group of people that were there the night he/she did something that noone else not in attendance could see on that night.

Anyway, at WrestleMania 10 was his crowning moment getting all the revenge from the last year and a half.

Least they didn't do what they have done in other circumstances, someone wins a title but because it wasn't televised it's not official. ie The Rockers beat the Hart Foundation for the Tag Titles, can't remember who but WWF toured Australia in the late 80's and there was a IC title match and someone won but it wasn't recognized anywhere else. and Stars would tour locations still with there titles when they had lost them on US soil months ago, Demolition did that here, they were touring with other former WWF talent and was between them losing the titles to Collosal Connection and regaining the titles at WrestleMania 6, they were booked as the WWF tag champs and had the titles or atleast replica's

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

I agree that it was completely anti-climatic especially considering the period that it was in. At that time I don't think any wrestler had won the World Title in the WWE outside of a PPV since before the Hogan days. So to see somebody like Bret Hart(who was obviously pushed but not pushed to the extent that guys like Warrior and Savage were before they got their first belt) was kinda surprising and a bit of a letdown. I think they would've been much better off saving it for the Survivor Series or atleast the upcoming Saturday Night's Main Event. I thought not hyping the match or Bret up before him winning his first Title put him behind the 8 ball to begin with.

 

[mdj2010]

I kind of liked it. In a way, it is equivelent to the way Diesel won the belt. No one would buy an 8 second match on TV, so don;t put it on TV. I think that may have been the thinking behind handing the belt to Bret. Why put a match like that on TV - Bret's never going to win. But then he did and it put a certain mystique behind his ability to lead the company. Or hell, maybe it was just a time where they knew Bret wasn;t leaving and felt comfortable putting the world title on him, they just didn;t feel confident that he could really carry it.
Either way, i think it does nothing to tarnish his legacy. If anything, it sets him aside from the other greats that have won it in such a grand manner.

 

[manstis1804]

Maybe part of the deal with Flair dropping the belt to Bret was that it would never be shown on television. Though it being a VHS extra contradicts that somewhat. I do think its possible that Vince asked Flair to drop it to Bret, and Flair agreed but asked that it wasn't aired on a PPV or on a TV show.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

From what I heard it was a hot shot from Vince to do it at that show as Flair was becoming increasingly difficult backstage and it was becoming apparent he might leave. Vince saw the opportunity to put the belt on Bret in Canada and took it. The reason the match wasn't televised was cos Flair was apparently the shits about losing the belt and didn't really put on a good match.

 

[Defekt]

I don't know the reason why this was done, but I never liked it.

Now days you can just watch the match on Youtube, but back in the mid 90's there was no way to see the match unless you could find the video. Most Blockbusters only carried a few PPV's so I was SOL.

Only other occasion in modern times this has happened was when Deisel beat Bob Backlund, but since that match was only 8 seconds long, the WWE replayed it countless times on RAW.

 

[Sparky]

I can't comment on when it happened as I never knew about it but I think this would be an awesome storyline if it was to happen nowadays. with most house shows and when the WWE goes to other places Like Aus, they always have title defenses but you always know who wins. To have something unpredictable like that happen you would get more people to go to the non televised events and bring an element of surprise to the WWE. It could also help further fueds if not over done by having a wrestler win the title when they get to a place like Australia only to lose it just before they leave and mention it on raw or smackdown asking for a rematch.

 

[The Idiot]

From what I heard it was a hot shot from Vince to do it at that show as Flair was becoming increasingly difficult backstage and it was becoming apparent he might leave. Vince saw the opportunity to put the belt on Bret in Canada and took it. The reason the match wasn't televised was cos Flair was apparently the shits about losing the belt and didn't really put on a good match.

Interesting.

So Flair was difficult to deal with, Vince takes the belt off of him and puts it on Bret in his own home country.

Fast forward 5 years....Bret is difficult to deal with, so Vince takes it off of him....in his own home country.

LOL

Anyways, good replies. I never knew that Flair was hard to deal with backstage...I always just thought his contract was ending, so they put him in a feud with Perfect and had the loser leaves town match on Raw which was the end of it. Learn something new every day I suppose.

I can't comment on when it happened as I never knew about it but I think this would be an awesome storyline if it was to happen nowadays. with most house shows and when the WWE goes to other places Like Aus, they always have title defenses but you always know who wins. To have something unpredictable like that happen you would get more people to go to the non televised events and bring an element of surprise to the WWE. It could also help further fueds if not over done by having a wrestler win the title when they get to a place like Australia only to lose it just before they leave and mention it on raw or smackdown asking for a rematch.

With the way the WWE titles are passed around nowadays, it wouldn't have the same effect. After reading all of your replies...I guess it was kinda cool to see something like that, only because it's a rare thing. However...I think it would have been more memorable if Flair dropped the title to Bret at say...Survivor Series. They could have done a traditional 4 on 4 SS match and Flair winning and being the sole survivor by cheating to pin Bret in the end. Then Heenan and Flair grab the mic and say how great they are...the greatest of all time. Bret coming to his senses takes the mic and says if you're so great, why don't you put up the title right now. Heenan tries talking him out of it but FLair agrees. They battle for another 10 minutes and Hart taps him with the sharpshooter. That would have been great. Just an idea - fun to think of this stuff.

Then on Superstars Mean Gene would announce Bret as the new WWF champion. Remember there is no internet, so the people that didn't order the PPV would still be shocked by seeing Bret walk out as champion, since the title was never meant to be defended that night anyway.

 

[gunnascott]

I read it was done because Flair had an injury that limited his ability and Vince took it off him ASAP and put it on Bret since was the only truly over near Main Eventer.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

I don't like the way the WWF did things with the storylines starting in late 92, through 93, into early 94, including the 2 Bret Hart world title victories. I think they could/should have done things a bit differently. I would have liked to have seen Bret's first world title victory be a little bit more dramatic.

Oct of 1992.

I would have had Flair drop the belt back to Savage instead of Bret. Savage is on the verge of losing the match due to interferance by Razor Ramon, and Perfect, when the Canadian Hero comes out, and helps Savage end Flair's run as WWF champ. This would involve Bret into the main fued of the time. Flair, Heenan, Perfect, and Razor vs Savage, and Bret(instead of the Warrior).

Other than that, I would have kept much of what was going on in the fall of 92 in place, including Perfect's split from Flair. Leading up to Survivor Series I would have somehow aligned HBK with Flair, and Razor, in a fued with Bret, Perfect, and the world champ Randy Savage.

Survivor Series 92.

Here is where I would make changes. First of all the main event of Survivor Series would be a triaditional SS elimnation tag match between Savage, Bret, and Mr. Perfect against Flair, Razor, and HBK. Flair eliminates Perfect first. Bret eliminates HBK, then Bret eliminates Razor. Bret, and Razor brawl on the outside, eliminating Bret by countout after HBK comes back out to join in on the 3 way brawl on the outside. Savage vs Flair in the ring, Perfect comes back out and turns on Savage, giving teem Heenan the victory, and reuniting Perfect to the fold.

Dec 92-Jan 93

leading up to the 93 Royal Rumble: Marty Janety returns to fued with HBK. Savage, and Bret continue fueding with Heenan's crew of Flair, Perfect, and Razor. On the Monday Night Raw episodes leading up to the Royal Rumble. Heenan begins to brag that the Hulkamania era is finally coming to an end, and that he wants to put Savage away for good. Flair challenges Savage to a loser leaves WWF match for the World Championship at the Royal Rumble. Savage insists on a steel cage to prevent interferance from Razor, and Perfect.

On the side. Heenan, Perfect, and Razor would be recruiting the unstoppable monster Yokozuna to help give them a better chance at winning the Royal Rumble. They succeed, and attempt to also recruit the aid of the Undertaker, but it would be a mystery if he accepts until the end of the actuall rumble match. The Heenan crew would continue to harrass Bret, with a match being issued for the Royal Rumble for #1 contender spot at HBK's IC title.

At the 93 Rumble: Savage beats Flair(Flair leaves in an epic), Razor & Brett match goes to a 30 minute draw, after interferance from HBK. In the Rumble Match, Bret, Razor, and HBK eliminate each other, and are shown brawling backstage throughout the rumble to kickstart their 3 way fued. The faces team up to eliminate Perfect, and Yokozuna, but the 2 return to aid the Undertaker to win the match. The 3 call out Savage, and announce their intentions to take the title from him, and bury his legend(the way he did Flair's that evening) with the Undertaker at WM IX.

FEB/Mar 93

I would have pushed the Undertaker as the lead heel in 93, instead of Yokozuna, with the 2 of them partnering up at the Rumble(along with Mr. Perfect, who should have also gotten a bigger heel push, along with Heenan in 93). The Undertaker was over with the fans, and had successfully headlined ppv's with Hogan in 91. He should have gotten the main heel push over Yokozuna, instead of wasting him in fueds with guys like El Gigante.

I wouldn't have given Tatanka as big of a push either. Instead of Michaels fueding with guys like Tatanka, and Crush in early 93 I would have had him in a 3 way fued with Razor, and Bret on the midcards for the IC title. Neither of these guys were ready for main event status yet, but they were close. Due to Razor, and Bret's draw at Royal Rumble, caused by HBK's interferance, the comisioner orders HBK to defend his title 2 times at Wrestlemania. Bret wins a coin toss to get the first match, Razor would get the shot later in the evening against the winner.

I would have also kept the Money Inc. vs Mega Maniacs the same, as well as introducing Luger as Hogan's "All American babyface" successor by involving him in the fued with Mr. Perfect, and the Heenan faction. Setting the 2 up for a match at WM IX.

Wrestlemania IX,

Bret pulls double duty and defeats HBK for the IC belt in the opener, and then later defeats Razor, both with sharpshooters, and after a bunch of interference by Perfect, and Yokozuna. Hart was saved by Luger, but revenge was had when Perfect beats Luger later on, with the assistance of Yokozuna, kickstarting their fued.

the main event would have been Savage vs Undertaker, but would end in the Taker winning the belt via interference from Yokozuna, and Mr. Perfect. After the match, kaos ensues. The 3 gang up on Savage, and then incapacitate Bret, and Luger after they try to come to his aid. Just before they put Savage in a casket, and all hope is lost for the babyface's, Hogan comes out, and saves the day with boots, and legdrops on the Taker, Yoko, Perfect, and all managers, and ends WMIX by reuniting the Mega Powers. That would have been a much better ending to that event to look back on.

Apr/May/Jun 93

Leading up to KOR 93, Perfect leads Heenans faction with the Undertaker holding the World title, Yokozuna continuing his undefeated streak, and Razor taking care of the dirty work. The 4 fued with Hogan, and Savage. The Heenan family jumps Luger, and injure's him, sending him to the hospital, and taking him out of the picture for the time.

Perfect cheats Hitmans IC title away from him with Heenan to draw even more heat, and give Perfect a big push. Commish overules match, and declares KOR tournament for the vacant IC title.

I would keep HBK a heel, and begin to fued him with Bam Bam Bigelow, giving Bam Bam a substantial push as a tough guy face. During this time Razor would start to defect from the Heenan faction, and begin fueding with Perfect(and HBK), but also at the same time remaining a heel by interfering in the Hitmans matches.

King of the Ring 93,

First round of the IC title tournament, HBK defeats Bam Bam by countout after interferance from Razor misses HBK, and hits Bam Bam. Bret defeats Tatanka, Razor defeats Mr. Hughes, Perfect defeats Duggan.

Second Round: Bret defeats HBK, Perfect defeats Razor after interferance from Heenan family. Razor is beaten, and sent to hospital after match.

IC title match, Bret defeats Perfect for title, but is beaten by Heenan family, and sent to hospital after match. Perfect takes belt, claims it as his.

Mega Powers vs Taker & Yokozuna main event, Hulk, and Savage take it to the heels one last time before they are seperated. Hulk, and the Taker take the fight to the back, where Perfect helps the Taker put him in a casket, and put the casket into a hearse driven away by Paul Bearer. Meanwhile in the ring Yokozuna brawls with Savage until the Taker, and Perfect make their way to the ring. Heenan family proceeds to beat on Savage, until Luger returns to save him, cleans house, Joins Savage to form the new Mega Powers.

Jul/Aug 93

Taker remains champion through summer 93, defending title against Savage, and Luger to DQ finishes(Luger due to interferance from Yokozuna after their Body Slam incident that summer). Luger, and Savage would form the new USA Megapowers to take on the Undertaker, and Yokozuna at Summer Slam 93.

Perfect draws heat carrying Bret's IC belt that he fought so hard for at KOR. The 2 would battle for it in a ladder match at Summer Slam 93.

SummerSlam 93

Bret defeats Mr. Perfect in Ladder match for IC belt.

Bam Bam defeats HBK, and Razor in a 3 way dance to earn the IC title shot at Survivor Series.

The New Mega Powers vs Taker, and Yokozuna. Savage gets eliminated from match early after a tombstone into a casket from the Taker, with Heenan padlocking Savage into the casket, rolling the casket to the back, and pushing it into a hearse being driven by P. Bearer. Bearer drives the casket away. Luger remains and takes down Yokozuna, and the Taker single handedly to win the match. After the match, Mr. Perfect attacks Luger, and the Heenan family proceeds to Jump him. A hearse comes driving into the arena being driven by Randy Savage, Savage cleans house, the New USA Mega Powers provial.

Sep/Oct/Nov 93

Bam Bam partners with bret on Monday night Raw to face Perfect, and Yokozuna, Bam Bam turns on Bret to join the Heenan family. Bam Bam begins fued with Bret leading up to their match at Survivor Series for the iC belt. Bret challenges Bam Bam to cage match to prevent interferance.

HBK(now with Diesel) continues to fued with Razor. HBK, and Diesel partner up with Ted Dibiase, and IRS to challenge Razor, Janety, the 123 kid, and Crush at SS 93

Taker, Yokozuna, and Perfect continue to fued with Savage, and Luger. Taker challenges Savage to a casket match at SS 93, and Luger fueds with Yokozuna challenging him to a match at SS 93

Survivor Series 93

Luger pinned Yokozuna, after Paul Bearer interferance backfired. Bearer and Heenan began fighting after match, Yokozuna attacks bearer, then the Taker turns face, comes out, chokeslams Yokozuna, then Heenan.

HBK, Diesel, Ted Dibiase, and IRS vs Razor, 123 Kid, Janety, and Crush: Crush pinned IRS, Diesel pinned Crush, Diesel pinned 123 kid, Diesel pinned Janety, Razor pinned Dibiase, Diesel pinned Razor to win it after interferance from HBK.

Bret defeats Bam Bam in Cage match

Yokozuna, Bam Bam, Heenan, and Perfect come out and attack Undertaker during casket match with Savage, just as Taker is about to win match. Perfect, and Bam Bam beat up on Savage on the outside, while Yokozuna Bonzai's Taker, then closes the lid of the casket on him. The casket is carried away, and the Undertaker isn't seen again until his the Summer of 94, after Dibiase brings back an imposter. The real Undertaker returned to take out the imposter at Summer Slam 94, and got his revenge on Yokozuna at Survivor Series 94.

Dec 93

Commisioner declares WWF title vacant since Savage didn't put the Taker in the casket. Savage comes out and demands the title, Perfect demands the belt to the Heenan family since they were responsible for ridding the WWF of the Undertaker, Luger declares himself the top man since he was the first to defeat the unbeaten Yokozuna. The commisioner decides that the New champion will be decided by the winner of the Royal Rumble.

Razor continues to fued with Diesel, and HBK, challenges Diesel to match at Rumble 94.

Brett helps his brother Owen win the tag titles, holding 2 titles at the same time going into the Rumble. Owen is jelous of Bret's IC belt.

Royal Rumble 94

Bret, and Owen lose Tag Titles, begin fued.

Razor is attacked by HBK on the way to the ring against Diesel. The 2 beat Razor, and send him to the hospital, eliminating his chances of winning the world title in the RUmble.

Bret, and Luger are the 2 final remaining participants in the rumble match, and simultaneously eliminate eachother, setting up their headline match at WM X.

Wrestlemania X

Bret pulls double duty for the second Wrestlemania in a row, but things turn out differently than WM IX. He drops the IC belt to Owen in the opener, but wins his first world title after defeating Luger in the main event of WM X. Owen's IC title victory over Bret is overshadowed by him finally winning the world title that same evening, and the fued of 94 begins.

 

[Wald]

Here's twhy I liekd it:

As a fan of wrestling I liked it because it made wrestling seem more realistic and to have Bret do it, who was the best wrestler in the world at that time hands down, added a lot more to his character. His fans loved him because he wa sthe guy who went out and gave it his all every single night, the guy who could surprise anyone at any time, and this proved that.

As a fan of Bret I look back on it in hindsight and realise it was just another way Vince and the WWE never fully got behind Bret. Seriously look with what Bret was given during his main event run with the company from 1992 to 1997 and you realise that Vince never intended him to be as big as he became, and never really wanted it when he got it.

Few points:

First reign - House show title win with no credible feuds, lost title to Hogan (practically) at Wrestlemania when no0-one wnated to see Hogan with the title again.

- Followed up losing to Yoko by never going after him, or Hogan, in the storylines. Made to play second fiddle to the Lex Express up until Vince realised Lex wasn't taking off and put the title on Bret out of necessity.

Second Reign: Had a good feud with Owen that Bret had to convince Vince to allow. Lost the title to retired wrestler Bob Backlund so Diesel could get.

Third Reign: Got the title off Diesel so he could hand it to Shawn at a proper new Champion Coronation at Wrestlemania 12.

- Followed by feuds with Backlund, Lawler, Isaac Yankem and other dross

Fourth Reign: May as well not have happened, Vince went with Taker vs Sid at WM when the smart money was with Auistin vs Bret fighting over a vacant title.

Fifth Reign: Got the title of Taker so the WWF could set up a Shawn vs Taker feud and kill the Hart Foundation's heel heat

Vicne never believed in Bret as a main event guy, its why what he accomplished is so much more the astonishing

 

[FlairFan2003]

There were two reasons why this was done in this fashion. First, there was serious tension within WWE RE: Ultimate Warrior, who was supposedly next in line for the title, likely at Survivor Series. WWE built a major feud around UT & Flair after Flair screwed him out of the title vs Savage at SummerSlam, only to beat Savage himself in Randy's very next title defense.

Second, Flair was seriously injured, ironically by Warrior, in a match in Phoenix. Bone chips dislodged in his inner ear, if you remember Flair was completely off WWE TV for almost two months right after the title switch, with vague references to him re habing an injury. This was because doctors were not sure at first what was wrong with him, but one of the symptoms was his inability to maintain his sense of balance, making both travel (flying & driving) as well as actually getting in the ring very dangerous.

Not knowing when (or if) he would be able to wrestle again WWE didn't want their champion on the sidelines indefinatley, especially with Hogan & Piper gone as the company was distancing itself from stars implicated in the ferderal steroid investigation, Sid fired, and Savage taking a leave of absence and reduced role for personal reasons (divorce from Elizabeth, who was completely gone from TV even before he dropped the title back to Flair).

Hart had steadily been gaining in popularity over the past two years since becoming a full fledged singles wrestler, his character met the family friendly criteria WWE liked in a top star, and he was willing to work house shows on a regular basis (unlike Hogan). If the belt had to change ASAP and all the plans for Warrior were in danger of being scrapped then Hart was a good choice to be champ. Unfortunately, although Flair tried to make a go of it and wrestle in the ring to put over Hart and establish his credibility as champion, with all the physical limitations he had with his ear injury the match was awful, there were moments Flair could hardly get up off the mat. The fact they carried the bout for almost 25 minutes is amazing, both towards Hart's ability and Flair's determination. However, Vince & company did not think the bout was very good so other than the finish it was not shown on TV. This was the first time a major title in either company changed hands via submission, a shocking event at the time, although not so big now.

Also, back in 1992 it was still fairly common for titles in both companies to switch at house shows, you did not have monthly pay per views and weekly live TV specials. Typically more of said match would be shown to the live audience, however.

If you remember, Warrior pretty much dropped out of sight after Hart's title win, the fact that he was the No. 1 contender before the switch was completely ingnored, and no atempt to cash in on a potential Hitman-UT match ever happened. When Flair was cleared to return they did a segment on Sat Nite's Main Event where Flair & Scott Hall, aka Razor Ramoan, beat down Warrior pretty bad and it was announced later that he would be unable to compete at Survivor Series (when Flair came back the started pushing a Warrior/Savage vs Flair/Hall tag match) and Savage was forced to find a new partner which was the storyline catalyst for Curt Henning coming out of retirement, turning on Flair, and becoming a good guy.

Hart & Flair had some excellent matches during the WWE's Eurpoean Tour right before he was injured, and they also wrestled a series of matches after Survivor Series, including one of the very first Iron Man Matches in WWE, at a Hartford, CT house show in Jan 93, years before Hart & HBK would do one at WrestleMania (remember Hart also did a Ladder Match at a house show, vs HBK, in late 92 or early 93, years before HBK would attempt his famous WM bout with Hall).

In essence, Flair's injury and uneasiness about the viability of Ultimate Warrior made the Hart titler switch happen in the very quick fashion it did. Warrior's inablity to hold a job very long in any return after 1992 seems to validate WWE's decission to let him go rather than elevate him to World Champ. Hart was very popular and had a good run as champion on and off through 1997, regardless of anything else, proving he was a worthy pick to be champ.

 

[FlairFan2003]

From what I heard it was a hot shot from Vince to do it at that show as Flair was becoming increasingly difficult backstage and it was becoming apparent he might leave. Vince saw the opportunity to put the belt on Bret in Canada and took it. The reason the match wasn't televised was cos Flair was apparently the shits about losing the belt and didn't really put on a good match.

No one from Hogan, to Savage, to Piper, or anyone else Flair worked with in WWE ever said he was dificlut to get along with. There was some tension between him and Hart, supposedly over how to script their matches (both men have told different versions of this, but it's essentialy the same thing, the didnt always agree on certain move sets in matches, they did not argue over finishes).

Flair & Hart did not have any problems working together in WCW, at least with each other (they both thought the booking was bad, which it was).Vince reportedly was always cool with Flair, especially with regards to money (he fronted Flair large portions of his salary to help pay off IRS debt and business loans related to some of his Golds Gym operations, not the kind of thing Vince is known to do randomly for most stars)

The real tension between Flair & Hart seems to stem from Flair's assertions that Hart was wrong for refusing to lose at SS 97 when he knew his contract was up and he was leaving and being critical of Hart's public remarks towards WWE after Owen's accident, both things that came out years after they worked together in WWE. Hart allegedly upset Flair a few years earlier when he made a few off remarks in a newspapaper interview that the title match was anti climatic and never mentioned Flair's injury, much of this seems childish.

 

[ShinobiMusashi]

Bret was alway my personal favorite in the WWF/WCW. Around the time of the Montreal Screw Job, and when he started getting lost in the NWO mix in WCW, that was when I started to lose all interest in WWF/WCW, and went strictly ECW(which I had already fallen in love with around 95, 96ish).

Just his attitude, and the way he carried himself after the bell rang. He was a technician. A very skilled technician, with a lot of heart, and determination. His character was a lot of inspiration to me growing up, and influenced the person that I turned out to be.

...But,

This discussion just makes me realize all of the potential the Ultimate Warrior had. 1993 could have been his year. Maybe even 1994. Too bad he didn't really want it.

 

[god-soldier]

I will never forgot Bret first title victory I remember it was October 92 me my brother and my cousins were set to go to Nassau Coliseuim to see Ric Flair defend the title against Ultimate Warrior. Right when the show started the annoucer made an announcement that stated that on Tuesday in Sasskatoon Canada their was a new WWF champion crowned we thought he was gonna say it was Warrior or Savage but when he said Bret HITMAN Hart and showed his picture on the big screen Long Island fans went nuts and he said Bret would have his first title defense tonight against Nailz tonight the crowd went insane we thought he would lose it after he just won it because Nailz destroyed Bossman and one of the most vicious heels at the time. It was the last match of night Bret Hart sunglassess and posters were sold out right at intermission. Bret came out to a standing ovation even my 70 year old grandmother who could barley stand or walk at the time stood and cheered for Bret when he came out the ovation was so huge that they waited to start the match after Bret won the fans were so estatic they turned on the lights and we were all still standing and cheering for Bret!!!!! I am proud to say that almost 20 yrs ago I witnessed the unvailing and the defense of Bret Hart as WWF CHAMPION!!!!!!

 

[LODemolition]

I actually miss the possibility of title changes happening at untelevised house shows and not being able to find out until the next time WWE programming was on. Now of course though, it's the age of the internet and it's not a possibility anymore. The element of surprise is never a bad thing in my opinion.

 

[thebarber]

Ric flair was leaving, they had to take the title off him.
and even for us in other countries that may have been months behind when it came to the next PPV they did a recap of him winning the title off Flair

Do you remember Edge also won a singles title out of nowhere, on a house show the night b4 Fully Loaded. Granted it wasn't a world title but it was the IC title and he lost it the following night on the PPV

these things happen. I don't think it takes away from the accomplishment, if anything it gives someone a buzz, there is a select group of people that were there the night he/she did something that noone else not in attendance could see on that night.

Anyway, at WrestleMania 10 was his crowning moment getting all the revenge from the last year and a half.

Least they didn't do what they have done in other circumstances, someone wins a title but because it wasn't televised it's not official. ie The Rockers beat the Hart Foundation for the Tag Titles, can't remember who but WWF toured Australia in the late 80's and there was a IC title match and someone won but it wasn't recognized anywhere else. and Stars would tour locations still with there titles when they had lost them on US soil months ago, Demolition did that here, they were touring with other former WWF talent and was between them losing the titles to Collosal Connection and regaining the titles at WrestleMania 6, they were booked as the WWF tag champs and had the titles or atleast replica's

At that stage Flair wasnt leaving. He was contracted to WWE until July 1993, when Vince told Flair he was dropping the title to Hart, Flair agreed, put Hart over then requested his release as Vince had told Flair he was going in a different direction. Thus Flair put Hrat over in rematches then left storyline wise when Hennig beat him on Raw in early 1993.

 

[The Eighties]

I remember hearing about the win and not being sure if my friends were making it up, I couldn't believe my then favourite wrestler had won the big one so I was ecstatic when I saw All American Wrestling that weekend and saw the promo with Bret and Gene.

At the time I didn't really think about any aspect other than that I'm glad he was WWF champion. The way he was booked as the fighting champion in the aftermath was great and he had back to back quality PPV defenses and a strong angle with Yoko leading into Mania.

I hated the way Hogan slimed into the end of Mania but at least thought he'd drop the belt to Bret at Summerslam that year, but Bret got totally sidelined with Lawler for the bulk of the year.

So in hindsight I don't really think the way he won it was a bad thing or undermining his legacy, I think how he was booked in the year that followed was where the mistakes were made.

This was the first time a major title in either company changed hands via submission, a shocking event at the time, although not so big now.

Didn't Sting beat Luger with the Scorpion Deathlock earlier that year?

 

[FlairFan2003]

You might be right about Sting over Luger with The Scorpion. In fact Im almost sure you are. Still back then main eventers didnt lose matches via submission, it was almost unheard of then.

 

[Arsenal]

I remember finding out on one random Saturday morning that Bret Hart was the new WWF Champion after beating Ric Flair, and being super excited. Surprises like that once in awhile are really cool. Plus it gives people more incentive to go to house shows, as they might get to witness "history".

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No one from Hogan, to Savage, to Piper, or anyone else Flair worked with in WWE ever said he was dificlut to get along with. There was some tension between him and Hart, supposedly over how to script their matches (both men have told different versions of this, but it's essentialy the same thing, the didnt always agree on certain move sets in matches, they did not argue over finishes).

Flair & Hart did not have any problems working together in WCW, at least with each other (they both thought the booking was bad, which it was).Vince reportedly was always cool with Flair, especially with regards to money (he fronted Flair large portions of his salary to help pay off IRS debt and business loans related to some of his Golds Gym operations, not the kind of thing Vince is known to do randomly for most stars)

The real tension between Flair & Hart seems to stem from Flair's assertions that Hart was wrong for refusing to lose at SS 97 when he knew his contract was up and he was leaving and being critical of Hart's public remarks towards WWE after Owen's accident, both things that came out years after they worked together in WWE. Hart allegedly upset Flair a few years earlier when he made a few off remarks in a newspapaper interview that the title match was anti climatic and never mentioned Flair's injury, much of this seems childish.

Flair had a "gentlemans agreement" with Vince that if he wasn't going to be a top guy he could leave. Flair did some stuff that Vince didn't like at WM8 with the blading and according to Flair that and the cancelled Hogan match began the slide. When they wanted Bret to go over in a non televised match, it was clear to Ric that not only was he not only no longer a top guy, but Vince wanted him to build Perfect as well... So he was going to be jobber to the stars...

I doubt Flair had much against Bret, who wouldn't take the title if it's offered. But I could easily see Flair feeling he'd been sold a bill of goods by Vince and wanting it over as quickly and as painlessly to his reputation as possible.