Bret Hart was the most important wrestler from 1992 til 1997

gunnascott

Occasional Pre-Show
Ok hear me out. I know a lot of people are mention Hogan cuz of the Nwo storyline but Bret Hart almost stopped the WWF from going under after Hogans 1992(1993 doesn't count)departure without him coming back in 96 there would be no Austin DX or no Attitude era. I mean look at his feuds and accomplishments

1992
The match with Piper(pipers best match ever) at WM, The match with Bulldog at SS(Bulldogs highest moment) and winning the title from Flair

1993
Putting over Yokozuna and winning the first ppv version of King of the Ring

1994
The owen Feud....nuff said. Also the underappricated match with Backlund at Survivor Series

1995
Actually making Diesel look like a semi credible champ which is almost impossible

1996
Wrestling one of the greatest matches(WM12) ever and returning at SS and making Austin a legit contender

1997
The greatest match in WM history with Austin making him a main eventer, reforming the Hart foundation, feuding with DX, and of course Survivor Series

If you take Bret out of the Equation during 1992 I honestly couldn't see WWF making it to 1996. Who agrees or disagrees and why?
 
Agreed. The man had AWESOME matches ans literally was the face of the company for 5 years. He was the face form 92 to 97. Now let the HBK marks say his horrible run of 96 made him bigger in the 90's than Hart lol
 
Period point blank Bret Hart is was and forever will be the best ever!! His matches From early on to the end of his career were never boring man could tell me a story couldnt he??
 
yup... every major player post hogan through attitude had to do with Bret Hart with the exception of foley and hunter. Taker was already established but a feud with bret hart definitely helped, it was around that time that we got to see what Taker could really do in the ring. But look at the rest, shawn, diesel, austin, even razor had that amazing match at the rumble with bret which helped boost his career and again show he could wrestle. Bret brought out the best wrestling matches in so many people. The SS match w/ backlund was great and highly underrated. And even backstage I believe there was something in his book about how he helped to get rock over when Shawn and them tried to hold him back. Like him or hate him is not the question posed here, it's whether or not he was important, the most important in that period, and you bet your ass he was!
 
DISAGREE

Bret was great. He was one of the all time greats, but he wasn't the most important wrestler from 92 to 97. You point out his highlights, but they really aren't that great.

-His match with Piper at Mania 8 was good, but it wasn't even the best on the card. Flair and Savage had a better match. Hell, Hogan and Sid had a pretty good match as well.

-I'm kind of sick of people talking about how great Bret is because he was the only IC champ to headline Summer Slam. The only reason Bret and Davey headlined that show was because it was the first PPV in England and Davey was the only English wrestler. He beat Bret because they didn't think he was good enough to be the world champion. It was an amazing match, but Bret and Davey only headlined that show because it was Davey's hometown.

-His first reign as champ was dogshit. He one the title at a house show and had a couple of ok matches with Shawn and Razor before losing the title to Yoko.

-His second reign was ok as well. He had good matches with Owen, but it wasn't the main event feud the WWE hoped for. He then lost the title to a mid forties and extremely past his prime Backlund.

-His match with Shawn at Mania 12 was great, but then he didn't do anything for 8 months. Not exactly a dominate year.

-I'll agree that his feud with Austin put Stone Cold on the map, but it was his stunning of McMahon that made him the biggest star of the 90's.

-Heel Bret and the New Hart Foundation were also great, but they realistically didn't mean shit compared to the NWO.

Bret was great in the mid 90's, but he wasn't the most important wrestler. Let me ask you a question. If Bret was so important to the WWE during that time, how come Vince tried to put the belt on everyone else. HBK, Yoko, Sid, Diesel, Hogan, Taker, and Backlund all had reigns with the title during this time period. Hell, Yoko, Diesel, and Shawn all had nearly year long reigns during that five years. Bret was barely champ at all. Throw in the big matches and popularity of the midcard at the time with Razor, Owen, Bulldog, Vader, and Triple H, and it becomes very clear that Bret wasn't the most important thing in wrestling.

There really wasn't a most important wrestler in the WWE during that time. There is a reason it is considered by many to be the worst time in company history. Bret helped a lot, but it was a team effort with all the top guys.
 
To the previous poster who asked why Vince put the belt on others during that era the real question should be why did Vince ALWAYS go back to Bret? And you know the answer, he was the man in that 5 year period. Off course Vince wanted to put the belt on Diesel, Shawn, Yoko etc to try and make them legit stars but at the end of the day it was always back to the trusty old Hitman. This shouldnt even really be debatable, there's no question from 92 to 97 it was Brets show. He ushered in a new era for actual wrestlers like Shawn, Angle, and Benoit. He carried the damn company on his back when every 80's mega star jummped to WCW, he did everything a champ should do and his legacy reflects that.
 
Tuffy54 Brets 2nd reign is better than any Shawn Michaels reifn or any reign during the 92-97 period. And the reason why he put the belt on everyone else is because Vince has a hard-on for huge wrestlers and didn't truly invest into the smaller wrestlers til after 96 when he realized size didn't matter and personalties made people buy tickets. And his first title reign wasn't great simply because WWE didn't know how to book a show without Hogan or Warrior and that's a fact. Finally during the previously mentioned time period Bret had the MOTY every year hands down if you don't agree post a better match from 92-97
 
Agreed, Bret had the hardest job in teh world. Wasn't made into a star by older main eventers. Had to not only make himself a credible champ but make damn near everyone he faced a credible champ and contender. He kept the WWE alfoat when no one else coul. He helped make Austin who in turn helped make Rock who in turn helped make HHH and so on. Hart was made by guys like Perfect and The Bulldogs but thats about it. I mean seriously Hogan didn't pass the torch to Bret Flair had one televised match. So not only did Bret keep WWE running he helped make their future.
 
I cant help but agree with what everyone is saying about Bret.. Talk about being Old Reliable. I completely agree with Brett being the most important wrestler of that time period because simply even without Hogan in WCW.. they would have been fine.. Maybe not as revolutionary huge.. but the company wouldnt have gone under.. Just like how it survived all those years without Hogan.. It wasnt anything like it was in the nWo era.. but it wasnt going bankrupt either.. remember Hogan was out until he returned at Bash at the Beach to join up with Hall and Nash and the ratings were on the rise even without Hogan on TV.. but if you would take Brett off of WWF television at the time then who would be left to showcase? Tatanka? lol jk with that.. but there would have been a huge hole that would be tough for anyone to try and fill and you would seriously be toying with WWF going under.
 
-His match with Piper at Mania 8 was good, but it wasn't even the best on the card. Flair and Savage had a better match. Hell, Hogan and Sid had a pretty good match as well.

If you are seriously saying the Hogan - Sid match could even come close to the Hart - Piper match, you are off your nut

I'm kind of sick of people talking about how great Bret is because he was the only IC champ to headline Summer Slam. The only reason Bret and Davey headlined that show was because it was the first PPV in England and Davey was the only English wrestler. He beat Bret because they didn't think he was good enough to be the world champion. It was an amazing match, but Bret and Davey only headlined that show because it was Davey's hometown.

Wrong, Bret openly states on his DVD that it was his idea for them to Close Summerslam, and for Bulldog to win. Which was the setup for Hart becoming WWF champ. Vince apparently wanted Savae-Warrior to headline, but Bret changed his mind. Nothing to do with Bulldog being English, And it had nothing to do with him "not being good enough to be world champion". And it wasnt Daveys Hometown. He was born in Leeds, and billed as from Manchester. Both in the North of England. Summerslam 92 took place in London.

His first reign as champ was dogshit. He one the title at a house show and had a couple of ok matches with Shawn and Razor before losing the title to Yoko.

The house show which was in Saskatchewan, the state where he had his very first wrestling match. and later broadcast on Superstars which was a big WWF show back in 1992? Yes, that really degrads the title victory.


His match with Shawn at Mania 12 was great, but then he didn't do anything for 8 months. Not exactly a dominate year

Quite true, But Bret was in the best 2 matches of 1996, vs HBK at mania and Austin at Survivor series and that year was fairly shite for WWF.

I'll agree that his feud with Austin put Stone Cold on the map, but it was his stunning of McMahon that made him the biggest star of the 90's

Yet without Harts influence, Austin maybe wouldn't of been so big. Austin himself credits Hart with giving his Career a shot in the arm.

Heel Bret and the New Hart Foundation were also great, but they realistically didn't mean shit compared to the NWO

Kinda unfair to compare any stable to the NWO. The Hart Foundation were a great stable though.

Bret was great in the mid 90's, but he wasn't the most important wrestler. Let me ask you a question. If Bret was so important to the WWE during that time, how come Vince tried to put the belt on everyone else. HBK, Yoko, Sid, Diesel, Hogan, Taker, and Backlund all had reigns with the title during this time period. Hell, Yoko, Diesel, and Shawn all had nearly year long reigns during that five years. Bret was barely champ at all.

Combined, Bret was WWF champion from 1992 - 1997 a total of 754 days...which is just over 2 years..so overall he was champ for 2 years out of 5, and you're saying he was barely the champ. His reign in 1994 was longer than any of the people you mentioned, except Diesel and Yokozuna. And IMO, Yoko was only champ for so long so Bret or Lugar could look like the big hero at the 10th anniversary of WM.

Seriously, where do you get all your crap from? It seems like youre making stuff up to try and look smart and make Bret look smaller than he is.
 
Absolutely, I'm one of Bret Harts least biggest fans, but without a doubt he was the sole man Vince could lean on during that time, work wise and drawing wise.
 
I feel like Bret was so well received because he was a great counter to Hogan and the 80s style with his more techincal savy and cool laid back style
 
Finally during the previously mentioned time period Bret had the MOTY every year hands down if you don't agree post a better match from 92-97

I already said I thought Bret was a great wrestler. I said that there wasn't a single most important wrestler from 92-97. However, your last point doesn't really hold water. Having the best match of the year doesn't make you the most important wrestler in the company. Obviously, Hogan was the most important wrestler of the 80's and Austin was the most important wrestler of the late 90's. Nobody would say they had the match of the year every year they were on top. But to humor you, I'll give you some matches that I think were better from 92-97.

92- Flair vs. Savage and Savage vs. Warrior were both amazing matches.

93- I'll give you this one. Hart was the king of 93.

94- Nothing else from 94 compares to HBK vs. Razor from Mania 10.

95-Diesel vs. HBK and the ladder rematch between HBK and Razor both beat the hell out of Harts feuds with Backlund, Lawler, and Issac Yankem.

96-Personally, I don't like Iron Man matches. They still managed to put on the best one, but I think it's a bad idea that ends up just being too drawn out. The no holds barred match between HBK and Diesel was one of the best street fights of all time. Shawn vs. Vader at Summer Slam was also amazing. So was Undertaker vs. Mankind at King of the Ring.

97- I'll agree with Austin vs. Bret was amazing, but I'd say it is tied with HBK vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell for match of the year.

Feel free to get mad and call me an HBK mark. Go ahead and tell me Diesel was a piece of shit. It's obvious that Bret is your favorite wrestler. Thats totally cool. However, it doesn't mean he was the most important wrestler in that 5 year period.

I'll say it again. THERE WAS NO "MOST IMPORTANT" WRESTLER IN THE WWE FROM 92-97. It was a combined effort between Hart, HBK, Diesel, Razor, Taker, Luger, Yoko, Vader, Sid, Austin, and Mankind that kept the WWE going.
 
Bret Hart was such a crucial wrestler for the WWE during 1992-1997. He was definitely the most important wrestler of that period in the WWF. And he's one of the most influential and important wrestlers in the history of the WWE.

As people have pointed out just about every star in the company from late 1992-early 1997 was either made into a star by Bret Hart, or made into a more credible and bigger star by Bret Hart. The only exceptions I can really think of are Lex Luger, Vader, Mick Foley, and Triple H, as Luger had a brief mini-feud with Bret that's long forgotten and Luger got his own push. Vader came into the WWE right when Bret took his break in 96, Foley rarely worked with Bret, and Triple H was a lower card guy until 1997 when him and Shawn were running the show backstage. Bret left an impact on pretty much every major star in that period. Let's look back......

Rowdy Roddy Piper

Now I'm not going to say something as outrageous and ridiculous like Piper wasn't a star until he wrestled Bret or something like that. I'd be the biggest dumbass in history to say something like that lol. Piper predates Bret obviously. BUT...Bret Hart did give Roddy Piper the greatest match of his WWE career, hands down. And TUFFY, to even mention Sid/Hogan in the same breath as Piper/Bret is a major insult to both Bret Hart and Roddy Piper, as the Hogan/Sid match was NOWHERE NEAR the level of the Hart/Piper match. Agreed that Savage/Flair was the best match of the night though. But I just wanted to mention Roddy Piper, because Bret did help show that Piper can wrestle a good match, especially when Piper was on his way out, as this was pretty much the end of Piper's run during his prime in the WWE.

The British Bulldog

While the British Bulldog became a star on his own accord (though the Hart Foundation/British Bulldog matches from the mid 1980's helped to establish all of them), it's well documented that while he was a great athlete most of his classic matches were led by his opponent. None have been more documented than his match with Bret Hart at Summerslam 1992. It's well documented that Bret had to carry him through the whole match because Davey's brain went splat and he couldn't remember anything (drugs are suspected to this). This match made Davey a bona-fide superstar and possibly an eventual world champion had he not got busted for drugs and fired mere months later. Who made that possible? Bret Hart. Not to mention that just about all of the Bulldog's greatest matches were with Bret Hart.

Shawn Michaels

Bret was Shawn's first major opponent during his singles career. It was supposed to be Marty Jannetty, but due to his drug and legal issues, he was gone. So Bret had the task of establishing Shawn as a credible singles wrestler, and he did just that. Bret got Shawn ready for the I-C title which he would win in late 1992, which of course set Shawn on the path of his HOF career. Not to mention Shawn Michaels is one of many wrestlers like Owen Hart, Kurt Angle, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, and CM Punk who would've never gotten a second look for a main event run had it not been for Bret Hart. Bret Hart paved the way for guys with amazing wrestling ability and a smaller stature to be a main event player in the Vince McMahon Jr. led WWF. Randy Savage, Ric Flair, and Ted Dibiase were the only smaller guys to get main event runs (and Dibiase never got the title) after Vince led the company, but Savage was very muscular and had larger than life charisma, and he was best friends with Hulk, so Vince couldn't ignore him. And Ric Flair is Ric Flair. Shawn Michaels couldn't have had his legendary career in the WWE without Bret Hart paving the way for smaller guys. Simple as that.

The Undertaker

With the exception of the few matches he had with Hulk Hogan (which was more for the story rather than in-ring action), and the one match he had with Jake Roberts at Wrestlemania VIII, the Undertaker never had a great match in his career, until he wrestled Bret Hart. Up until 1994-1995 ish, the best match of the Undertaker's early WWF career was a match he had at Madison Square Garden against Bret Hart just a few weeks before the 1992 Royal Rumble.

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/ChEdSymhFr8[/YOUTUBE]

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/5AS2mmcn-k8[/YOUTUBE]

And by the time Bret and Taker wrestled in 1995-1996, those instantly became the best matches of the Undertaker's career. Bret Hart didn't help the Undertaker become a big star obviously, because at that point from about 1993-1995, Bret Hart and the Undertaker were clearly the top two babyfaces in the company with Scott Hall (Razor Ramon) and Lex Luger next in line. But Bret did help establish the Undertaker's in-ring career as helped to show that the Undertaker could put on a good match. And I'm sure the experience of wrestling Bret helped Taker improve in the ring and show him how to lead a match as he would in the future as his career progressed. This isn't a case of Bret making Taker a superstar, but making him a better wrestler.

Razor Ramon

Razor's first one on one feud in the company was with Bret Hart. Razor debuted around October 1992 and was instantly put in the Flair/Savage feud, but after that died down and Savage was put back to commentary and Flair was on the verge of leaving, Bret was champ and his first challenger was Razor. Their match at 93 and the fact that Razor was feuding with the champion instantly established Razor as a top-tier main event heel. Unfortunately Razor would be pushed down the ladder for the next few months until his babyface turn in late 1993, but his good showing against Bret proved he was a player in the company. And though Scott was a 7-8 year veteran by that time, wrestling Bret only made him better. Scott Hall has even said that in shoot interviews. Razor is a guy who got established because of Bret Hart.

Yokozuna

Bret made him a world champion. Of course Hulk Hogan killed that right aftewards, but Bret put him over and made him a champion. Though to be fair, Hulk later put Yoko over, but Bret did it first.

Bam Bam Bigelow

The best matches Bam Bam had in the WWF were against Bret Hart. It seemed that Bam Bam was stuck in dumb mid-card feuds throughout his WWF tenure (Doink the Clown, Tatanka, Lawrence Taylor, etc.), but just when people thought Bam Bam was a buffoon, a great match with Bret Hart always reminded fans that Bam Bam was great. I say instead of Yokozuna, Bam Bam Bigelow should've the monster heel WWF champion.

Diesel

The best matches of Kevin Nash's WWF career as Diesel all involved three guys, Taker, HBK, and Bret Hart. Taker only had a match with Diesel by the time he was one of the top stars of the company and on his way out, so Taker did little to nothing in getting Diesel over. It was Bret and HBK (and Scott Hall) that established Kevin Nash in the WWF. And while it's well documented that Shawn often took advantage of him to make himself look better (a spot at the end of their Wrestlemania XI match is a notable example of this), Bret Hart probably more than anyone put more effort in making Diesel look like a superstar. From walking him through their first main event match at King of the Ring 94, to Bret's careful in-match spots to make Diesel look like a credible Hulk Hogan like babyface at their Royal Rumble 1995 match, to letting Diesel destroy him after the conclusion of the 1995 Survivor Series match, thus establishing Diesel's tweener stage at the end of his WWF career, no one in the company did more to make Diesel look good and establish him than Bret Hart.


Jerry Lawler

Jerry Lawler's career in the WWF will be remembered for two things. His commentary, and his 3 year feud in the mid '90s with Bret Hart. His feud with Bret was his only real feud in the WWF. Most of his other feuds were silly feuds like with Doink the Clown, or short ones like with Jake Roberts and the Ultimate Warrior. Feuding with Bret Hart beginning at the 1993 King of the Ring and going all the way through that summer made Lawler one of the top heels in the company along with Yokozuna and Shawn Michaels. Their feud was so good that it won the PWI feud of the year award and the Wrestling Observer feud of the year award. It was a great feud and the highlight of Jerry's in-ring WWF career.


Owen Hart

No wrestler in WWF history benefited from Bret Hart more than Owen Hart. Bret was the one that pushed for Owen to get pushed. Early on Owen was a lower card jobber via singles or tag team. But once Bret became a top guy, he went to bat for him, and Vince finally gave Owen a chance. Bret carefully booked (in the ring) their match to make Owen look excellent, and then Bret put him over, instantly establishing Owen as one of the top heels in the company. Then he had his career highlight with his 1994 feud with Bret Hart. Owen wouldn't have been a major player in the WWF without Bret Hart. Plain and simple.

Hakushi

Hakushi is only remembered in the WWF for three things. Being an underrated in-ring talent, his matches with Sean Waltman, and his matches with Bret Hart. Hakushi's matches with Sean Waltman were lower-mid card attractions that usually opened up ppv's and stealing the show. His matches with Bret Hart were the top matches other than Diesel's championship matches. No one would've even bothered looking at Hakushi were it not for Bret Hart. A shame, because Hakushi was a great in-ring talent.

Jean Pierre Lafitte

His career highlight was his run with Jacques Rougeau as the Quebecers. Upon becoming a singles wrestler in 1995, he was given a stupid gimmick as a pirate, was tormented and mocked endlessly by the Kliq, and was given one of the dumbest reasons for a feud in history by stealing Bret Hart's jacket. He was destined to fail. And ultimately he did. BUT, no one would even remember him today, once again if it wasn't for Bret Hart. Bret worked with him to put on some underrated gems of matches. Even today, in interviews, Bret usually makes sure to drop his name in, even putting him over 15 years after his career was over.

Stone Cold Steve Austin

I don't really need to document this too much as everyone knows how crucial Bret Hart was to Stone Cold's career. But in short, Bret established Stone Cold immediatly by putting him over (kayfabe) as the best wrestler in the WWF upon his return in late 1996, then having a classic feud and having IMO the greatest match in WWE history at Wrestlemania 13, which helped turn Stone Cold into a babyface. The rest is history. We got the biggest star in WWE history, largely due to you guessed it....Bret Hart.

Brian Pillman

While Bret didn't do a whole lot to establish Brian Pillman as he was already a big name thanks to his stints in WCW and ECW and his extremely over and groundbreaking gimmick as the Loose Cannon. But Pillman instantly became one of the top heels in the company when he was added to the Hart Foundation stable. Brian would've probably been left in the mid-card, or undercard had he not been added to that stable.

The Rock

Bret was Rocky's biggest ally during the early stages in his career. It has been well documented that Shawn and Triple H hated him and tried to bury him (and ultimately failed). Unfortunately they were also helping to book for the company at the time. So in April of 1997, Bret and the Rock were going to have a match on Monday Night Raw (their only one on one encounter), and Bret was booked to beat Rocky and win the I-C title. Bret refused (THANK GOD). He reasoned that he didn't need the I-C title because he was a main eventer (which was true), and that Rocky as a newcomer needed it much more, and Bret beating him would've buried him. This was obviously done to bury Rock, as what other logical good reasoning could you put behind this decision? And thankfully Bret was smart and selfless enough to refuse to beat him. It's also been well documented that Bret went to bat for Rocky at other times during their one year together in the company and usually stood up for him against Shawn and HHH. The rest is history.


So yeah, you could say that Bret Hart in his time did more for his fellow WWE superstars than any other guy on the roster. Even today, as an icon and legend and HOFer, he is constantly heaping praise on the new generation of wrestlers in interviews. You can always catch him talking about how great guys like Cena, Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Melina, Natalya, Miz, etc. are. So even as a retired wrestler he is still doing his job in putting over the younger wrestlers and generation.


In addition to his impact and effect on every major star in his era, he also influenced and changed and impacted the WWE from a company standpoint in a number of ways.

1. He pioneered and led the way for smaller wrestlers with more in-ring ability to become main event players. I already detailed this in my passage on Shawn Michaels, but again, without his rise to the top and the main event, it's arguable that Owen Hart, Shawn Michaels, Chris Jericho, Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Kurt Angle, Edge, Christian, Jeff Hardy, and CM Punk would've been able to do the same.

2. He helped to pioneer the WWE's success on a global scale. It is well documented that Bret Hart is the biggest foreign draw in WWE history. It's also well documented that Bret was a bigger draw across the world than in America, the home country of the WWE. During the WWE's downturn in the early '90s they largely relied on tours in countries like Canada, England, Germany, France, South Africa, India, Japan, Italy etc. These pioneering tours and forays onto television helped the WWE to establish itself in markets across the world and not just America, and Bret Hart was the leader in this. Bret Hart helped these tours to sell out in droves, and Bret was a superstar in these countries, 10X bigger than Hulk Hogan or Ric Flair. Bret Hart's sellout tours in these countries helped the WWE to become a global company rather than just an American company.

3. Another thing that he gets not credit for was his influence on the Attitude Era. Everyone gives DX and Stone Cold credit, but most fail to mention Bret's impact on the Attitude Era. To start off with, Bret Hart brought the idea of the Ladder Match to the WWE, having the first one with Shawn Michaels in 1992. The Attitude Era is known for it's Ladder and TLC matches. These wouldn't have happened without Bret's idea and vision. He also did the first table spot in WWF history at Survivor Series 1995 when Diesel pushed him off the ring apron, and Bret went through the table. Where did he get the idea to do his spot? Some of Sabu's work in ECW. Of course he helped establish the two biggest stars of the Attitude Era in Stone Cold and the Rock. But the one aspect of his impact on the Attitude Era that literally gets no credit, is his pioneering use of the worked shoot promo.

While Stone Cold was already doing his cursing, and Goldust (his homosexual character) and Sunny (her sex appeal and bikini shots) were pushing the envelope sexually, and Brian Pillman was doing the "Loose Cannon" gimmick, Bret Hart was really the first to break kayfabe with his ranting, worked shoot promos during the early months of 1997. Rants on Stone Cold, Shawn Michaels, and most importantly Vince McMahon. The WWF was beginning to break kayfabe for the first time ever when Bret was ranting and acknowleding Vince as the real boss of the company. A few examples.....

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/9sPcdgPx1nE[/YOUTUBE]


[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/FxCDDlSw9-A[/YOUTUBE] (This is one of my favorite moments/segments in WWE history)

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/KvnRFOunIew[/YOUTUBE] (Pt. 1 of Bret's heel turn)

[YOUTUBE]http://youtu.be/vI1dt3q-XUQ[/YOUTUBE] (Pt. 2 of Bret's heel turn)

His pioneering worked shoot promos, his usage of pioneering hardcore elements (Ladder Matches, table spots), his establishing of the top Attitude Era stars, on top of his innovative Canada/USA storyline (where he was a heel in America, and a babyface everywhere else), he was just as much of am important ingredient for the Attitude Era as anybody (Stone Cold, DX, Vince, etc.)


Bret Hart was the heart and soul of the WWF in the post Hogan and pre Attitude Eras. He was the glue that held it all together. While Vince tried to put the title on other wrestlers, they all failed and he went back to Bret everytime who worked, until Stone Cold came along. Bret Hart was the most important wrestler of the early and mid 1990's, and one of the most important wrestlers in the company's history. Anybody that says otherwise is full of crap and ignoring what really happened in that time period (aka: WWE fans of the last 10 years that have been fed the "HBK is the greatest ever" WWE spiel.)
 
I already said I thought Bret was a great wrestler. I said that there wasn't a single most important wrestler from 92-97. However, your last point doesn't really hold water. Having the best match of the year doesn't make you the most important wrestler in the company. Obviously, Hogan was the most important wrestler of the 80's and Austin was the most important wrestler of the late 90's. Nobody would say they had the match of the year every year they were on top. But to humor you, I'll give you some matches that I think were better from 92-97.

92- Flair vs. Savage and Savage vs. Warrior were both amazing matches.

93- I'll give you this one. Hart was the king of 93.

94- Nothing else from 94 compares to HBK vs. Razor from Mania 10.

95-Diesel vs. HBK and the ladder rematch between HBK and Razor both beat the hell out of Harts feuds with Backlund, Lawler, and Issac Yankem.

96-Personally, I don't like Iron Man matches. They still managed to put on the best one, but I think it's a bad idea that ends up just being too drawn out. The no holds barred match between HBK and Diesel was one of the best street fights of all time. Shawn vs. Vader at Summer Slam was also amazing. So was Undertaker vs. Mankind at King of the Ring.

97- I'll agree with Austin vs. Bret was amazing, but I'd say it is tied with HBK vs. Undertaker Hell in a Cell for match of the year.

Feel free to get mad and call me an HBK mark. Go ahead and tell me Diesel was a piece of shit. It's obvious that Bret is your favorite wrestler. Thats totally cool. However, it doesn't mean he was the most important wrestler in that 5 year period.

I'll say it again. THERE WAS NO "MOST IMPORTANT" WRESTLER IN THE WWE FROM 92-97. It was a combined effort between Hart, HBK, Diesel, Razor, Taker, Luger, Yoko, Vader, Sid, Austin, and Mankind that kept the WWE going.

Just wanted to respond to this post as it was a good one.

I'd have to say that Bulldog/Bret was the match of the year in 1992, barely edging out Flair/Savage from Wrestlemania VIII. I do however agree that Warrior/Savage from Summerslam 92 was one of the top matches of year and one of the most overlooked matches in WWE history as it never gets any credit. I would probably rank it as the 4th best WWF match of the year behind 1. Bret/Bulldog; 2. Savage/Flair; 3. Royal Rumble (can't forget that). Bret/Piper would be No. 5 and Bret/Shawn (from Survivor Series being No. 6, and HBK/Bulldog from Saturday Night's Main Event being No. 7.

1993, yeah we're in agreement that Bret had the best matches of the year although the HBK/Jannetty matches were gold too. I'd give Bret/Mr. Perfect from King of the Ring 93 the WWF Match of the Year Award.

1994, agreed that HBK/Razor from Wrestlemania X was the match of the year, but almost every other match in the top 5 goes to Bret Hart. Shawn Michaels, off the top of my head didn't have any other classic matches that year. Bret Hart on the other hand had two bonafide classics with Owen Hart (from Wrestlemania X which yes, is close to the Ladder Match, and the Cage Match from Summerslam 94), a classic with the 1-2-3 Kid on Monday Night Raw, and a classic with Bob Backlund at Survivor Series 1994, plus a very solid, good match with Diesel at King of the Ring 1994. Shawn Michaels may have had the best match of the year, but the overall best wrestler by far was Bret Hart.

1995: Agreed that HBK begins to turn the tide here and once again has the best match of the year in his Ladder Match with Razor at Summerslam 1995. But, when talking about Bret you failed to mention the good matches he had. The matches with Diesel at Royal Rumble 1995 and Survivor Series 1995, the classic with the British Bulldog at the December IYH event, the great matches he had with Hakushi between May-July, the underrated, solid matches with Jean Pierre Lafitte. Bret had some excellent matches that year. You failed to mention them.

1996: Clearly Shawn had the better year considering Bret was gone for most of it. But before he left, he had two good matches with The Undertaker and Diesel before the Iron Man Match (which is one of the greatest matches of all-time, although if you're not a fan of Iron Man Matches you obviously won't think that). So if you're not a fan of Iron Man Matches, how about his match with Stone Cold at Survivor Series 96? One of the best matches of the year definitely. But Shawn did have excellent matches at every ppv that year. Although the Diesel one is great, his match with Mick Foley was the best besides the Iron Man Match (I'd say it was the 2nd best match of the year in the WWF). Then there's the series of Taker/Mankind matches. And the matches Steve Austin and Savio Vega had were pretty stellar as well.

1997: The Hell in a Cell Match is damn close to the Submission Match from Wrestlemania 13. Agreed. In fact, I still consider the Hell in a Cell match to be the best HBK/Taker match ever (yep over the two Wrestlemania classics). But Stone Cold/Bret wasn't just the best match of the year. It was IMO the best match in Wrestlemania history, and yep the best match in WWE history (well of the modern era anyway).
 
I'm don't agree with people who say that the Michaels V Ramon ladder match was better than the Harts WM10 match and def not the SS cage match. The reason the ladder match gets so much praise is that it was the first one most people saw and it pushed both partcipants to the legit main eventers. The Cage match slightly edges it out and the 1995 versions wasn't nearly as good. IMO the 1994 matches rank as follows

1 Bret v Owen @Summerslam
2 Michaels v Ramon at WM10 ladder match
3 Bret v Owen @WM10
4 Bret v Backlund @Survivor Series
5 Bret v Diesel@KOTR

That's 4 classics to 1
 
I'm don't agree with people who say that the Michaels V Ramon ladder match was better than the Harts WM10 match and def not the SS cage match. The reason the ladder match gets so much praise is that it was the first one most people saw and it pushed both partcipants to the legit main eventers. The Cage match slightly edges it out and the 1995 versions wasn't nearly as good. IMO the 1994 matches rank as follows

1 Bret v Owen @Summerslam
2 Michaels v Ramon at WM10 ladder match
3 Bret v Owen @WM10
4 Bret v Backlund @Survivor Series
5 Bret v Diesel@KOTR

That's 4 classics to 1

I disagree. I watched Wrestlemania X live on ppv and was in sheer awe the entire time I watched that match. Of course it's great because it was the first one most people saw. There had never been a match like it in the WWF and other than Stampede Wrestling, pro wrestling as a whole. It was a groundbreaker and innovative match. It's very rare to see matches that are truly groundbreaking and innovative. That match was groundbreaking and innovative to the core. The Bret/Owen match was fantastic and along with Angle/Benoit from X-7 the greatest pure wrestling match in Wrestlemania history. But it wasn't near as important and influential to the wrestling landscape as the original Ladder Match was, nor was it as exciting a match. The Ladder Match was better IMO.
 
Just wanted to respond to this post as it was a good one.

I'd have to say that Bulldog/Bret was the match of the year in 1992, barely edging out Flair/Savage from Wrestlemania VIII. I do however agree that Warrior/Savage from Summerslam 92 was one of the top matches of year and one of the most overlooked matches in WWE history as it never gets any credit. I would probably rank it as the 4th best WWF match of the year behind 1. Bret/Bulldog; 2. Savage/Flair; 3. Royal Rumble (can't forget that). Bret/Piper would be No. 5 and Bret/Shawn (from Survivor Series being No. 6, and HBK/Bulldog from Saturday Night's Main Event being No. 7.

1993, yeah we're in agreement that Bret had the best matches of the year although the HBK/Jannetty matches were gold too. I'd give Bret/Mr. Perfect from King of the Ring 93 the WWF Match of the Year Award.

1994, agreed that HBK/Razor from Wrestlemania X was the match of the year, but almost every other match in the top 5 goes to Bret Hart. Shawn Michaels, off the top of my head didn't have any other classic matches that year. Bret Hart on the other hand had two bonafide classics with Owen Hart (from Wrestlemania X which yes, is close to the Ladder Match, and the Cage Match from Summerslam 94), a classic with the 1-2-3 Kid on Monday Night Raw, and a classic with Bob Backlund at Survivor Series 1994, plus a very solid, good match with Diesel at King of the Ring 1994. Shawn Michaels may have had the best match of the year, but the overall best wrestler by far was Bret Hart.

1995: Agreed that HBK begins to turn the tide here and once again has the best match of the year in his Ladder Match with Razor at Summerslam 1995. But, when talking about Bret you failed to mention the good matches he had. The matches with Diesel at Royal Rumble 1995 and Survivor Series 1995, the classic with the British Bulldog at the December IYH event, the great matches he had with Hakushi between May-July, the underrated, solid matches with Jean Pierre Lafitte. Bret had some excellent matches that year. You failed to mention them.

1996: Clearly Shawn had the better year considering Bret was gone for most of it. But before he left, he had two good matches with The Undertaker and Diesel before the Iron Man Match (which is one of the greatest matches of all-time, although if you're not a fan of Iron Man Matches you obviously won't think that). So if you're not a fan of Iron Man Matches, how about his match with Stone Cold at Survivor Series 96? One of the best matches of the year definitely. But Shawn did have excellent matches at every ppv that year. Although the Diesel one is great, his match with Mick Foley was the best besides the Iron Man Match (I'd say it was the 2nd best match of the year in the WWF). Then there's the series of Taker/Mankind matches. And the matches Steve Austin and Savio Vega had were pretty stellar as well.

1997: The Hell in a Cell Match is damn close to the Submission Match from Wrestlemania 13. Agreed. In fact, I still consider the Hell in a Cell match to be the best HBK/Taker match ever (yep over the two Wrestlemania classics). But Stone Cold/Bret wasn't just the best match of the year. It was IMO the best match in Wrestlemania history, and yep the best match in WWE history (well of the modern era anyway).

I strongly believe that Bret Hart vs. Hakushi from 95 might be the single most underrated match in WWE history. I agree with almost everything you said in your post. I absolutely loved Austin vs. Bret at Mania, but I've always felt the title of greatest Mania match ever should go to a standard one on one match. I've still never had goosebumps like Hogan vs. Andre at Mania 3, but thats just personal preference.

I'm going to give my thoughts on Bret during this time without talking about matches or putting people over. It's no secret that there is a gap in the history of the modern WWE. More than one actually. It goes Hogan, gap, Austin, Rock, gap, Cena. Thats the history of the "faces" of the company. Maybe Bret belongs in that first gap. Maybe Triple H belongs in the second. (However, opening that can of worms has nothing to do with this thread so we will leave it be).

Bret did have an amazing run from 92 to 97, but something about him just never clicked as "face of the company". He just didn't have any damn charisma. He became awesome on the mike in 97, but thats one year out of five. Yeah, he was a smaller guy. But so were Savage, Piper, and Flair. Certainly compared to Hogan and Warrior at least. Those guys didn't have to be a jacked up monster and neither did Bret. But they gave more emotion in one interview than Bret did in the first ten years of his career. Maybe it was just his style, but I never got that "holy shit", "big match", feel from Bret until the end of his run in 97. He just seemed like a good wrestler that went out and defended his title. The passion just didn't seem to be there. I know he has an incredible passion for wrestling, but it never seemed to come out in his promo's.

The thing that really separates the "faces" of the company from top stars is mainstream recognition. Hogan, Austin, Rock, and Cena are all household names. People that have never once watched a whole wrestling show know who they are. It's part of being the face of a global company. They are in movies, TV shows, talk shows and commercials. Bret was just never that guy. He simply doesn't have that mainstream X factor that the other four "faces" or the company have. Guys like Savage, Piper, and Andre were never the "face" of the company and are more well known than Bret. It takes nothing away from his in ring ability, or the greatness of his matches. However, it does take something away on the grand scale of being "the man" for the WWE. It goes back to why I said there was no MVP from 92-97. Until Austin broke through in 98, they simply weren't able to create a single superstar that fans and NON FANS recognized as the most popular wrestler in the world.
 
Bret was the go to guy during that period. I just wish he left a year earlier in 96 to WCW to really give to Vince and show him how important he was to their show. Imagine if he left in 96? Who would have put over Austin? HBK? That punk refuses to put anyone over.
 
Agreed, read his book and you'll get a glimpse into his mind set heading into 1995, it was a make or break year for him, and you can see how under-used he was from Royal Rumble - Survivor Series, sure he faced Hakushi in what many claim to be Bret's best match of 1995 and Jerry Lawler at King of the Ring. The Kliq running wild really hurt WWE and you can see by the quality of their PPV's. I'm a Diesel fan but him as champion should of been dropped to Shawn at Mania 11 or rematch one another at the first In Your House (or King of the Ring) but when you look back in hindsight you could change anything for the better. But Bret was the corner stone for WWE in that period and made people look legit no matter their capabilities.
 
1995 was the worst year in wrestling ever in my opinion. It was also stuck in between to of the best 94 and 96. Bret woulda made things a lot better if he had been champ beat Nash at Summerslam 95 then dropped it to HBK at WM12
 
If you're talking match quality as your gauge: Yes. Bret was definitely the most important wrestler from 1992 - 1996. However if we're talking who brought in the money, its definitely Hulk Hogan. No one drew more money in that time frame than he did.
 
While I will continue to believe that Shawn Michaels is the best in-ring performer since I started paying attention in the late Eighties I do have to say that Bret Hart was crucial to keeping Vince's business going until he figured out the next move.

The biggest thing that Bret becoming THE MAN did was that it was probably the first time since the Seventies where the main event was the best match of the night. Hogan and Ultimate Warrior and even Macho Man's matches as champion were always pretty much the same theme. Bret Hart always delivered while you could pretty much predict move by move what would happen with the other guys. (To be fair, Macho Man had the ability to wrestle spectacular matches but the way they booked the matches pretty much made him a smaller Hogan)

Hart took them out of the cartoon character superhero realm and showed that the actual match could captivate a crowd.
 
If you're talking match quality as your gauge: Yes. Bret was definitely the most important wrestler from 1992 - 1996. However if we're talking who brought in the money, its definitely Hulk Hogan. No one drew more money in that time frame than he did.

Actually Hogan started losing his luster after WM6 after jobbing to Warrior and wasn't really that much of an overall draw after that(people were cheering when he jobbed to undertaker @Survivor Series). After WM6 it can be argued that Warrior and Savage were bigger or at least as big during that period. Finally in 1994 Bret Hart in WWF main evented PPVs were considerable higher than Hogans in WCW PPV and even worse was Hogan was only a draw when he was fighting Flair or Vader before he heel at BATB 96
 
Imagine if he left in 96? Who would have put over Austin? HBK? That punk refuses to put anyone over.

Well.."that punk" did put Austin over.. He put him over clean at the biggest show of the year for the WWF title.. and that's after he came to the ring with a broken back..


Now as for the subject.. In what regards?? He was a solid champ but wasn't out there setting the world on fire.. Bret was in just as many if not more non memorable feuds as he was good ones.. In the ring he almost always delivered however. People like Shawn and Austin actually changed the landscape of wrestling at the time.. they took the wheel and turned it into what eventually became "Attitude"... SInce the ladder match at WMX HBK was raising the bar athletically.. Where I felt Bret was simply putting on great matches.. I feel the other guys had more influence on what wrestling became..

Like I said in another discussion "the most important wrestler of the 90's" was having the title taken off him many times..trying to find "the new guy".. he's was the headliner in the worst drawing Wm of all time 13.. and the lowest PPV buyrate ever IYH3... He was let go at a time when WWF was fighting WCW tooth and nail and was actually ENCOURAGED to go the the competition!! Then when he got there it had no impact on the ratings and the company went out of business... and WWE which is what people like Shawn and Austin laid the groundwork for took off to the stratosphere .. This doesn't sound like THE most important wrestler to me..
 

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