Booking vs Burying

[pyrusane]

I don't see an official sticky thread about the current Bryan storyline, just a bunch of random threads about different aspects of it, and none of them seemed like the right place for this. I wrote this in response to a comment on the main site, and when I was done I realized that 1) it was way longer than I originally intended, and 2) I wanted to share it on here as well.

I was talking about this whole phenomenon with a co-worker the other day. People keep talking about how Bryan is being buried, when that is just not true. Do you know the easiest way to bury someone? See: Zack Ryder. A couple of years ago Ryder had a huge following, people were chanting for him every week, and he built it all on his own. So, they gave him the ball in the form of the US Title and told him to run with it. And once he had it, the public collectively went..."meh." So, he got fed to the Cena/Kane feud, and then he disappeared.

You want to know the definition of being buried. I was shocked to find out in that same conversation with my co-worker that JTG and Camacho were still employed by the WWE. That, people, is being buried. Meanwhile, Bryan is on every show, he is part of the opening segments, part of the Main Events, and has multiple segments throughout the show. There was an article on this site a couple of days ago suggesting Extreme Rules was moved to Seattle to build the entire PPV around Bryan. Hell, at the Rumble they fed Rey freaking Mysterio to the YesMovement. By that point in the show they KNEW the reaction the eternal underdog was going to get when he came out from the back and wasn't DB, and they went ahead and sent him out. If you're trying to stick it to the fans, you send out Jinder Mahal or Drew McIntyre in that spot, not one of your most popular faces.

WWE is playing a very dangerous game right now, and whether you like it or not, they are playing it right. Six months ago, when Bryan beat Cena for the title, the reaction was big. Then he got screwed, and it got bigger. He continued getting screwed, and the reactions aren't fading away, they get louder every week. If WWE plays it right, if they time it perfectly, when Bryan does finally get his moment the pop should rival Hogan in Canada the night after WM18, if not blowing it away.

Of course, there are those in the IWC that will say, "Look at all the people on here that think everything they are doing is terrible. We're right, we're the majority of the paying fans, they should do what we want right now!" The problem with that mentality is that you are just wrong. Here is some perspective. Hell in a Cell had a buyrate of around 212,000 buys. By way of comparison, the forums for this site has a total of 22,570 members. The most members ever online at the same time was 4,842.Let's say, for the sake of argument, that 10,000 people read this site daily (which is probably a gross exaggeration) and that those are the people complaining the loudest. That is just under 5% of the number of people who bought that PPV (I can't find the buyrate for the RR, that is why I am using HiaC). But let's be real, half of you didn't pay for that PPV, you streamed it. So really the number is more like 2.5 - 3%. But yeah, the WWE should throw away all of their plans and cater to you, RIGHT NOW.

Look, I'm not stupid, I realize that Bryan is the hottest thing in the industry right now, and a LOT of people want to see him win the title. But let's say he had kept it when he won it from Cena, and was still champion right now. What would he be doing? People would be sick of him already, and his popularity would be nowhere near what it is right now. While I am quite sure that Vince and Co didn't expect the reaction that has grown out of this to reach such a fever pitch, don't fool yourself for a minute into thinking they aren't doing everything they possibly can to keep stoking the flames. Bryan being kept out of the Rumble was a "screw you" to the fans? Seems to me it has taken the Bryan mania to even greater heights than before.

Bryan could reach Austin levels of popularity if this keeps going at the rate it is right now. But the only way that can happen is if the WWE doesn't cave in and pull the trigger too soon. People seem to forget that Austin didn't happen overnight either. The famous Austin 3:16 speech happened in June of 1996. Austin didn't win the WWE title until March 1998, almost two years later. If the IWC had existed in it's current form back then, every single discussion would have been filled with posts like "zomg, they r burying SCSA, if he doesn't win the title this week I'm done for good. #WCW #NWO". And speaking of the NWO, the best part of that angle after the initial shock was the feud with Sting. From October 1996 to December 1997 Sting never spoke a single word, and he waited 14 months for his title match. The match sucked, but the point is that the IWC would have lost interest after two or three months at best.

You can cry and moan and gnash your teeth all you want; that is your right. If you don't like the product, feel free to bitch and moan; again, that is your right. Just realize that, in the big picture, your voice is very very small, and rather insignificant. Mine is too, so feel free to ignore everything I'm saying, you will anyway.

TL;DR - Patience is a virtue, and instant gratification is overrated.

On another thread I postulated that the worst possible thing the WWE could do to kill Bryan's momentum is give him the title. Ultimately he has to win it, of course, you have to have that payoff eventually, but the key is to do it at the right time. WM30 is probably the best time and place to do it, although from a booking standpoint it seems like it would be very difficult to get there from here. In all honesty, I can see Triple H causing Bryan to somehow lose the EC match, leading to their match at WM30, and the stipulation that if he beats Hunter he gets his match at Extreme Rules. This would actually be smarter booking, in my opinion, for one simple reason...

Extreme Rules will be held in Seattle this year. Seattle, as in Daniel Bryan's hometown. While it doesn't hold the same prestige as Wrestlemania 30, obviously, imagine that moment, Daniel Bryan closing the show with the titles held high in his own hometown...

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People on here don't know what buried means. If a guy is more over because he's getting screwed over, he's not buried. Losing isn't buried. A squash to a no name and then being taken off TV is buried. Bryan isn't buried at all. He's the most over guy on the roster because he hasn't been given the strap yet. What's an underdog who always wins or reaches his goal?

 

[Best in the World]

People on here don't know what buried means. If a guy is more over because he's getting screwed over, he's not buried. Losing isn't buried. A squash to a no name and then being taken off TV is buried. Bryan isn't buried at all. He's the most over guy on the roster because he hasn't been given the strap yet. What's an underdog who always wins or reaches his goal?

People pay far too much attention to win-lose records then they really should quite honestly. The idea of buried is what happened to Ryder, he was brought out, did little to nothing, lost a lot of matches (he was pretty much destroyed by Sheamus) and now he's dead and gone, never to be seen again. I don't consider buried until the day they are taken off T.V. and gone for good, even going on a massive losing streak, you're still being shown on T.V. and still being used.

If it's the case of you showing up maybe once every 3 months and losing a match, that pretty much counts for anyone who was there before, got a push and then was dropped to that position of putting over talent in squash matches.

The concept of losing and suddenly getting buried is definitely a overreaction. Bryan has been going for a while, he hasn't lost a step, people are still supporting him and he's still getting shot after shot after shot to build him up over time.

What's an underdog who always wins or reaches his goal? Who is, John Cena?

 

[Raptor93]

I dont know what others are like but Im not saying keeping it hot for so long isn't a good idea its the best way to go, its just people have little faith in wwe writing team and vinces willingness to push a small guy. SO when we see bryan continually losing and being belittled and no real evidence wwe's willing to put bryan as the next top face (punk was a top heel and a second/third face) well you can hardly blame them for reaching that conclusion

 

[Negrodamus]

Its because the IWC feel that they are smarter than the people who run the business. For a small guy like Bryan the chase is always the most exciting part the underdog getting screwed by the bosses is a great storyline.
Th IWC think that THEY created Hogan and that THEY created Austin with their cheers, what a joke.
These same IWC fans if they would have gave Bryan the belt and he flopped they would blame WWE for not booking him properly.
Here is another misconception of Bryans popularity or something that should be questioned at least. Whats more popular Daniel Bryan or the YES chants.
WWE fans dont really care who gives them a catchphrase to say, they will say it anyway. Colter comes down and says some borderline racist stuff (funny but still borderline) to where the fans are booing them but then those same fans who boo them recite WE THE PEOPLE with them.
I said it once and ill say it again people need to stop trying to act/be smarter than the product because YOU ARE NOT.
that is all

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Claiming that a wrestler is being buried has become another crutch of many internet fans. If the wrestler in question is someone they're a big fan of and they don't care for his current situation in the company, they'll claim that he's not being "used right" or, if he loses a match here & there, even if it's against a main event level opponent, he's being buried. This is especially true of a lot of internet fans as so many of them want things EXACTLY how they feel it should go and they want it to happen yesterday.

The OP mentioned some examples of wrestlers who've been buried, some of them to the point of complete irrelevancy. Another good example of a couple of guys who've suffered a major setback in terms of their spots on the roster are Curtis Axel and Ryback. At this time last year, Ryback was in the midst of feuding with the likes of CM Punk and John Cena and was booked as a human juggernaut. Curtix Axel debuted to a lot of hype and fan fair, who was looking like a rapidly rising star in WWE. Some fans didn't particularly care for either guy, which is the way it goes with any wrestler, and WWE management ultimately was unimpressed in the long run. Different booking decisions could have been made on WWE's part that may have smoothed things over. At the same time, however, WWE isn't this demonic organization that'll suddenly just stop someone's push for some sort of sadistic joy. Ryback's had complaints on him about being stiff from several workers, there've been claims that he's clumsy and his behavior while interacting with fans & media has, allegedly, been really unprofessional. WWE was hopeful that some of these issues would be cleared up as time went on, but they didn't, so his push was dropped. As for Axel, the guy just doesn't have "IT". Yeah, I know, that elusive "IT" that gets tossed around kind of casually. Axel is a solid worker inside the ring, but there's no real personality or connection to the fans. I think that WWE would have been wise to have no made him such a big part of the Punk vs. Heyman feud but, at the same time, a wrestler either has that ability to connect with fans or he doesn't.

When I look at Daniel Bryan since SummerSlam, I don't see someone that's been buried. If WWE was genuinely interested in burying him, he'd be down towards the bottom of the card jobbing out to Shield members in 3 or 4 minute squash matches. MAYBE some WWE officials don't see Bryan as someone who can be "the face" of the company and MAYBE there are other company officials who do. Either way, as long as Daniel Bryan continues to behave with the professionalism and easy going personality that've, allegedly, made him very well liked by the boys & girls in the locker room & management and continues to steal the show whenever he's given the opportunity, he's in no danger of being genuinely buried.

 

[wannawrestle]

People pay far too much attention to win-lose records then they really should quite honestly. ?

I've paid attention to Daniel Bryan's Win Loss record this year. He lost all matches with or against the WYatt's. He's Still over. HE won on Raw by DQ, then lost on Smackdown. The only win he has this year is by DQ. I've been a wrestling fan My Whole. I'm so Glad the Win/Loss record don't mean Diddly. You guys are right. Daniel Bryan The More he loses the louder the fans seem to get.

Also You guys we're right about a lot of 'smarks' not knowing what Buried means. However I think all the HHH Bury Memes are quite funny.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

Getting the huge moment in some C level PPV isn't the pay off that we want.After all, from the way you portrayed it, it seems like HHH is trying to leech off Bryan's momentum to insert himself into a meaningful feud at WM that people will be interested in. The pay off is to create the Wrestlemania moment. To close the show. What happens after doesn't matter. Bryan got that moment. We got that moment. That's all that matters. Why would it be better to do it at Extreme Rules? What happens afterwards would be the same.

Bryan should be headlining Mania for the title at the last match of the show. He deserves it, and deserves to win the title. Everything else is lackluster and wrong.

 

[johnbragg]

The people who are saying "the IWC doesn't know what burying is" are the ones who don't know how burying works.

Wrestling companies never (or almost never) set out to take a popular guy and make him unpopular. Except in some extreme cases of putting personal above business, that doesn't happen. Vince didn't put Dusty Rhodes in yellow polka dots to screw Dusty Rhodes over--in the age of Doink the Clown and Duke the Dumpster, Dusty Rhodes in yellow polka dots seemed like a good idea to Vince.

What happens is the Powers That Be don't see a guy as money. A guy doesn't fit their idea of what's going to make money, and so they put him in positions that don't let him succeed.

When people say that WWE is burying DAniel Bryan, they're saying that WWE will NEVER give Daniel Bryan his moment. That they will keep putting Daniel Bryan in with guys that WWE thinks are the way to make money--Bray Wyatt, Seamus, etc--so that they can transfer Bryan's heat (which TPTB see as a temporary fad, like Fandango or Zach Ryder) to guys who will be long-term main eventers.

Case in point: How did the Summer of Punk end? Punk was fed to Nash and HHH, and never got his win back over HHH or NAsh, and ended up feuding with Truth, Miz and John Laurinitis.

People who say that WWE is burying Bryan believe that WWE plans to keep having Bryan fall short until fans lose interest. There's only so long that a guy can keep losing before he goes from being the Bad News Bears to being the Washington Generals.

 

[Best in the World]

What happens is the Powers That Be don't see a guy as money. A guy doesn't fit their idea of what's going to make money, and so they put him in positions that don't let him succeed.

How has this happened though? Bryan has been going after the title since SummerSlam and is still in the title hunt going into the Elimination Chamber. That's not being buried at all. Bryan isn't being put into a horrible storyline, he's not jobbing out to Santino. He's still in a position to make an impact, he's still in a position to win. What more could be asked for at the moment? If you're speaking about before, none of that matters anymore, he's over and has been over for quite some time, he isn't going anywhere.

Until the day Bryan ends up jobbing out to someone like Ryback or Santino, he isn't being buried, there is only so much the WWE can do with the guy right now, pushing him right to the title now would make no sense, and if the idea is to have him win at WM or after WM, then he's not in the position of being buried, he's being built up.

Patience is a virtue, it's going to happen, I don't see those chants dying out until probably after Bryan wins the title, right now the crowd is far too defiant to give up on him.

When people say that WWE is burying DAniel Bryan, they're saying that WWE will NEVER give Daniel Bryan his moment. That they will keep putting Daniel Bryan in with guys that WWE thinks are the way to make money--Bray Wyatt, Seamus, etc--so that they can transfer Bryan's heat (which TPTB see as a temporary fad, like Fandango or Zach Ryder) to guys who will be long-term main eventers.

Sheamus was the case of basically getting jobbed out, I don't think anyone could deny that, but it built him up steam and he's been chugging along with the crowd along with him since that time, if they haven't given up on him since then they're not going to now. And Bray, that was a great match, it stole the Royal Rumble PPV, even in a loss, he still come out looking like pure gold. He at this point is untouchable, it's not going to go away and even management knows that, people worrying about this really need to call themselves and look at the situation and see what is going on, nothing is going to happen to Bryan that'll stop this momentum (outside of an injury of course).

Case in point: How did the Summer of Punk end? Punk was fed to Nash and HHH, and never got his win back over HHH or NAsh, and ended up feuding with Truth, Miz and John Laurinitis.

That was definitely the case of horrible booking, I'll admit that. But around that time just about everyone was getting booked horribly, even Cena was having some terrible feuds and usually he's the guy that gets something out of these feuds. It was generally a horrible time for creative for everyone, in my opinion. But nonetheless, Punk bounced back from it and continued onward, he did lose a lot of momentum, but it didn't bury him to jobbing out.

People who say that WWE is burying Bryan believe that WWE plans to keep having Bryan fall short until fans lose interest. There's only so long that a guy can keep losing before he goes from being the Bad News Bears to being the Washington Generals.

Again, how has this happened? How do we know this to be the case? It might have been the general idea in the beginning, but honestly now? Fans lose interest? "YES!" has pretty much taken over sports, Bryan doesn't even have to be out there and people will chant for him. Royal Rumble showed how over this guy is and how he isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I think people are really being overprotective with Bryan here, I understand people want him to be champion (I do to), but let time show how things will go, don't worry yourselves over something that hasn't even happened yet.

However the question does remain, when he wins the title, could he keep the momentum going, but we won't get that answer until he wins the title, which, I'm certain he will.

 

[johnbragg]

How has this happened though? Bryan has been going after the title since SummerSlam

No. He was chasing the title from SummerSlam until right before Survivor Series. He never won a lasting victory over Orton and the Authority. Instead he was demoted to a feud with the Wyatt Family.

If ESPN Sportscenter hadn't run clips of college football teams doing Bryan's YES! cheer, Bryan would still be screwing around with the Wyatt Family. As it is, he's still more likely to face Sheamus at Wrestlemania than he is to be in the title match.

With Punk gone, most likely WWE will put him in against HHH. So WWE will put their most over star in the No. 3 or 4 match, behind ORton-Batista, Undertaker-(?)Lesnar and maybe behind Cena vs Bray Wyatt.

and is still in the title hunt going into the Elimination Chamber.

That's not being buried at all. Bryan isn't being put into a horrible storyline, he's not jobbing out to Santino.

No, a minute ago he was in a feud with the Wyatt Family.

He's still in a position to make an impact, he's still in a position to win. What more could be asked for at the moment?

Until the day Bryan ends up jobbing out to someone like Ryback or Santino, he isn't being buried,

So until he is completely and conclusively buried, it's not legitimate to recognize patterns and say "The WWE is currently burying Bryan."

No, actually it is absolutely legitimate to draw the conclusion that WWE does not believe in Daniel Bryan and is going to do what they damn well please and tell the audience to quit whining and enjoy it.

there is only so much the WWE can do with the guy right now, pushing him right to the title now would make no sense, and if the idea is to have him win at WM or after WM, then he's not in the position of being buried, he's being built up.

Winning the title after Wrestlemania, at Extreme Rules, is an anti-climax. Wrestlemania is the WWE's showcase, "the grand-daddy of them all." Last year, 1,000,000 houses bought Wrestlemania. 250,000 bought Extreme Rules. Very clearly, WWE sees Wrestlemania as the place for the Lesnars and Cenas and ORtons and Batistas, and Extreme Rules as the place for the Bryans and the CM Punks.

Patience is a virtue, it's going to happen, I don't see those chants dying out until probably after Bryan wins the title, right now the crowd is far too defiant to give up on him.

"Be patient" very often means "we're going to run out the clock and see if this guys runs out of steam" in WWE.

 

[johnbragg]

"How do you know that WWE isn't going to give Bryan the ball?"

Because I've been following WWF/E for a while. I've seen how they work. They are the only successful company in the wrestling business, so they believe--with some reason--that their ideas and their model is The Way. That's why Batista is main-eventing Wrestlemania despite being average at best on the microphone or in the ring--he fits their idea of what a pro wrestling star is, he's a jacked roidmonster, a former World Champion, a name known to wrestling fans.

Right now Daniel Bryan is red hot. WWE has a chance to do something special, to show the casual fans who are tuning in for Wrestlemania season something new and interesting, and try to maybe keep them around after Wrestlemania season.

Instead, they're going to wait until after Wrestlemania is over to "give Bryan the ball", after attention drifts away, and then when Bryan's win at Extreme Rules and his main event match at the June PPV don't move the numbers, they'll say that they were right in the first place, and that Bryan isn't a real star and put one of "their guys" back on top to feud with Cena and/or Orton etc.

 

[Best in the World]

No. He was chasing the title from SummerSlam until right before Survivor Series. He never won a lasting victory over Orton and the Authority. Instead he was demoted to a feud with the Wyatt Family.

And we must ask ourselves. Where is he now? In the crowds eyes, Bryan never left the title picture, even with the feud with the Wyatt's, even in losing he still come out on top and is still over and is now being placed into the Elimination Chamber.

If ESPN Sportscenter hadn't run clips of college football teams doing Bryan's YES! cheer, Bryan would still be screwing around with the Wyatt Family. As it is, he's still more likely to face Sheamus at Wrestlemania than he is to be in the title match.

That definitely could have been the case, but it wasn't just the cheers from that college football team. It was the Royal Rumble that changed the ball, and the fact that Bryan is still over with the fans, proves that he hasn't been buried. Just because he got moved lower on the card doesn't mean he was buried, the fans still cared so much to chant for him.

With Punk gone, most likely WWE will put him in against HHH. So WWE will put their most over star in the No. 3 or 4 match, behind ORton-Batista, Undertaker-(?)Lesnar and maybe behind Cena vs Bray Wyatt.

Rumors, rumors, rumors. That's what it's coming down to now, we don't have any idea on what could happen in the span of time until Elimination Chamber and WrestleMania. We can only go on either of those two right now. And the fact that Bryan is in the Elimination Chamber proves he isn't buried.

No, a minute ago he was in a feud with the Wyatt Family.

Minute ago he feud with the Wyatt's, another minute later he's in the Elimination Chamber with a shot with the title. And since when is getting put into a match with the Wyatt's a bad thing? Is Wyatt a jobber? No, he's a mid-card talent, and again, Bryan looked fine in defeat and the lose didn't effect him at all.

So until he is completely and conclusively buried, it's not legitimate to recognize patterns and say "The WWE is currently burying Bryan."

I don't see him anywhere near the state that Ryder was in when he was over, not seeing that as the case at all. Ryder was flat-out buried, people have up on him quickly, the fans haven't.

No, actually it is absolutely legitimate to draw the conclusion that WWE does not believe in Daniel Bryan and is going to do what they damn well please and tell the audience to quit whining and enjoy it.

Drawing conclusions leads to paranoia and worry. Bryan is still around the title hunt, he's still around a shot to win the title, the fans are still backing him. WWE can't do anything to knock him down a peg. It's because fans spoke up he's where he is, it's because the fans that spoke up that made Bryan look even more like a viable option. Fans took over Royal Rumble, that's what it came down to. He was never dropped off the face of the earth, so he went into a match with Bray? The fans are still backing him, and as long as those fans are backing him he cannot and is not buried.

The whole point of being buried is to lower your popularity, Bryan's popularity hasn't lowered, it's in fact increased, regardless of what the WWE has tried to do or not, Bryan isn't losing that popularity, and until that happens he isn't buried, its that simple.



Listen, I get where you're coming from with all this, I get it, but right now Bryan isn't going to have any issue in the position he's in. He's held onto this steam since Sheamus beat him, the fans haven't turned their back on him in that time and only seem to grow more and more support as time passes. He is the underdog, he's going to have people doubting him, he's going to stumble from time to time, but until the day, he's jobbing to someone like Santino, and the people are cheering Santino over Bryan, he has not, and isn't being buried.


In the end, it all comes down to this. If you want Bryan to remain where he is, if you want Bryan to win the title, if you want Bryan to remain over, continue chanting for him, regardless of what happens, as long as that is happening, as long as Bryan is getting a reaction, he won't be buried. And it's because of that, he hasn't been buried in the fans eyes. There's too much worry and over-protection for Bryan when moment their doesn't need to be, he's fine and he's going to be fine.

 

[shafe_41]

As someone stated above... people don't know the meaning of the word "buried." It's probably the most misused word I've ever seen.

Bryan has never been, currently isn't, nor ever will be "buried." Because he's still being BOOKED on television every single week. You don't get booked weekly in headlining spots when you're buried. You don't kick off PPVs and wrestle amazing matches when you're being buried. It's that simple.

Zack Ryder is buried. DJ Gabriel (yeah, remember his 3-week run on WWECW?) was buried. The characters of Michael McGuillicutty (sp?) and Husky Harris were buried. Axel and Ryback aren't even buried yet and they look like laughable garbage. They just don't have the "it" factor it takes to get over with the crowd or be entertaining.

 

[johnbragg]

As someone stated above... people don't know the meaning of the word "buried." It's probably the most misused word I've ever seen.

Bryan has never been, currently isn't, nor ever will be "buried." Because he's still being BOOKED on television every single week. You don't get booked weekly in headlining spots when you're buried. You don't kick off PPVs and wrestle amazing matches when you're being buried. It's that simple.

Zack Ryder is buried. DJ Gabriel (yeah, remember his 3-week run on WWECW?) was buried. The characters of Michael McGuillicutty (sp?) and Husky Harris were buried. Axel and Ryback aren't even buried yet and they look like laughable garbage. They just don't have the "it" factor it takes to get over with the crowd or be entertaining.

So apparently HHH wasn't burying anybody back in 2002-05, then, when he ruined Kane's character for years with the Katie Vick angle, and when he ran down Booker T and "people like him" as unworthy of the WWE title, beat him at Wrestlemania and sent him back to the tag-team and midcard title scenes.

If you're booked in such a way that leads the fans to believe that you will never succeed, that you are not a credible competitor, then you're being buried.

 

[shafe_41]

So apparently HHH wasn't burying anybody back in 2002-05, then, when he ruined Kane's character for years with the Katie Vick angle, and when he ran down Booker T and "people like him" as unworthy of the WWE title, beat him at Wrestlemania and sent him back to the tag-team and midcard title scenes.

If you're booked in such a way that leads the fans to believe that you will never succeed, that you are not a credible competitor, then you're being buried.

Burial
The worked lowering (relegation) of a popular wrestler's status in the eyes of the fans. It is the act of a promoter or booker causing a wrestler to lose popularity by forcing him to lose in squash matches, continuously, and/or participate in unentertaining or degrading storylines. It can be a form of punishment for real-life backstage disagreements or feuds between the wrestler and the booker, the wrestler falling out of favor with the company, or the wrestler receiving an unpopular gimmick that causes him to lose credibility regardless of win-loss record.

You're exactly the type of person that does not know the definition of "buried." When you're buried, you're done and basically never heard from again. Don't get me started on the Katie Vick thing. The storyline itself was just awful, sh*t on by the fans, and totally deemphasized in the feud between the two because it was just that terrible. Pretty sure after that, Kane then WON the tag titles with RVD, turned heel, then jumped back into a headlining feud with Triple H and Goldberg for the WHC. If you can tell me how Kane was "buried" during any part of his WWE career, I'll send you Girl Scout Cookies.

Same with Booker T. Sure he was booked into the IC Title picture and US Title pictures for the next few years, but Triple H's stock was also at its absolute peak '02-'05. You couldn't have bought a better heel champion than Triple H during that time period. He was "the guy." He deserved it. But guess what? In '06, there was this little character named "King Booker" who was also one of the best heel WHC title holders ever. Just because you aren't headlining every single week DOES NOT mean you're buried.

 

[justinept]

What happens is the Powers That Be don't see a guy as money. A guy doesn't fit their idea of what's going to make money, and so they put him in positions that don't let him succeed.

^^^Ding Ding Ding Ding. I've been saying this for years. The WWE is all about agendas. VKM's and HHH's agenda is to push the vision they have for the product, but when the live crowds are trying to push that vision in a different direction, they do what they can to steer it back on course.

And as this poster points out, this is exactly how they do it. Their goal with Bryan - as it was with Ryder and Punk before - is to "give the fans what they want' in such a way that the fans will turn their back on it. That way, the next time fans say they aren't being given what they want, they can point to how the crowd died down for Ryder and Punk as evidence that they know what's best for business - as if they tried to give us what we wanted, we realized we didn't want it, and they're not going to make that mistake again!

If you don't think that's what's going on with Bryan, then I'm not sure what to tell you. All I can say is that you clearly have way too much faith in the WWE if you believe they knew that by continually pushing Bryan from the title picture, that the fans would just cheer louder for him. Keep in mind that these same people couldn't predict the crowd's reaction to Batista during his return. They didn't understand that if they had him hug two heels in the middle of the ring, refer to both of them as friends, and was then immediately thrown into the main event at WrestleMania over the guy the fans wanted to see, that people would boo him in return. But hey, I'm expected to believe that they concocted this drawn-out, elaborate story line with Bryan to properly milk out the fan's reaction for an extended period of time? Give me a break.

All you have to do is dissect the Bryan story, and you can tell they were booking it to push agendas. Heels get over on heat created by screwing the baby face. Faces get over on the hope that they'll overcome the odds set up by the heel. There's only so much heat a heel can draw from a baby face before the fans lose hope that the baby face will overcome the odds. When that hope is gone, the fans move on to the next guy...

So ask yourself. Who was the real heel in this situation? Was it Randy Orton who was merely benefiting from an on-screen company decision that him holding the belt was best for business? Or was it Triple H, the guy making that mandate on screen? If you think it was Orton, I've got some bad news for you, but Triple H has always been the villain in this situation - the guy that drew heat from screwing Bryan; the guy the fans hoped Bryan would overcome.

So when Triple H screwed him from the title twice in a one-month span, and left him laying in the middle of the ring pretty much every Monday night between those two screw-jobs, we just kept hoping that Bryan would overcome these odds and that Triple H would get what was coming to him - that he would have to accept the fact that this vanilla midget was better than the guys with 'the look'.

But it was one week after the NOC swerve when Paul Levesque declared that heels no longer exist. So after spending six weeks drawing heat from Bryan, Levesque let it be known that we had no reason to hope Bryan would overcome the odds he set before him... because the odds were no longer stacked against him. How could they be? There was no fucking heel! So the WWE took away any of the odds, and you're telling me that my expected reaction was to hold out hope? Hope for what?

Keep in mind that this program was NEVER about Bryan winning the title; it was about Bryan overcoming the odds set forth by The Authority to win the title. Take away those odds, and you'll still have a fun moment if he wins ... but it was a move that seriously risked killing all the steam Bryan had going. If the WWE truly believed in Bryan, there's no chance they'd have taken that very unnecessary risk.

It is a risk that paid off, though, in large part thanks to a fan phenomena. In lieu of a strong heel in the Bryan/Orton angle, the fans created one for themselves. Instead of the on-screen Authority being the heel figures in this angle, it was now the real-life WWE Machine that was being booed. Bryan no longer had on-screen odds to overcome in our eyes, but he had actual real-life odds. And so we held out hope despite the WWE trying to tell us there was no reason to hope ... we still thought "Man, these idiots that run things in the WWE can't be stupid enough to keep Bryan from the WrestleMania main event. Surely, if 75,000 people are doing the Yes Chant during Bryan's mid-card match, then every match after will fall flat by comparison. They have to realize that the only way to properly milk the intended reaction for the main event is to put Bryan in it.

...and we all know what happened next when the WWE, once again, told the fans to stop hoping. The audience pretty much shit all over one of their biggest pay-per views of the year. And you think this was intended? Right...

Furthermore, they didn't send out Rey at 30 to give the fans something to cheer for in lieu of Bryan. They sent him out because, yet again, they misread the crowd and played their hand poorly. Any fan with a brain knew that if it wasn't Bryan at 30, then the crowd was going to boo. Hulk Hogan in 1985 or Austin in 1997 might have been the only people in the world that could've changed that outcome.

Case in point: How did the Summer of Punk end? Punk was fed to Nash and HHH, and never got his win back over HHH or NAsh, and ended up feuding with Truth, Miz and John Laurinitis.

Yep. This one fits right in there, too. Punk gets over by calling out Triple H and the powers that be. Triple H enters the program, beats Punk in their lone match, and then decides he wants to be a face. So if Punk gets over by calling out the people in charge, then how stupid does he look two months later when he's suddenly 'friends' with the people in charge?

We wanted to see him 'overcome' those people that were screwing him, but instead, we got to see him join forces with them! Forget the 464 day title reign. Punk's steam took a serious hit the moment he teamed up with Triple H. From that moment, he was still a big part of the main event - but he never regained the buzz from his initial 'pipe bomb.'

People want to look at Punk's push as some kind of example of the people losing interest once a guy is put on top - but they never want to look at the path the WWE took to get there. The path Punk took was a shameful example of the WWE taking something that felt organic, trying to mold it to what the WWE wanted, and then blaming the wrestler for not connecting with the fans in the same way he previously did.

See: Zack Ryder. A couple of years ago Ryder had a huge following, people were chanting for him every week, and he built it all on his own. So, they gave him the ball in the form of the US Title and told him to run with it. And once he had it, the public collectively went..."meh." So, he got fed to the Cena/Kane feud, and then he disappeared.

I'm so sick and tired of these f'ing Zack Ryder comparisons. The guy held the title for five weeks. In those five weeks, he defended the title zero times. There were no pay-per views. He was placed in two six-man tag matches - one with Punk and Bryan; the other with Cena and Big Show. His only other match during this time was a mixed-tag team match with Eve. And you're telling me the WWE realize during this time that the crowd went "meh"? Not only was the crowd not saying 'meh' to these matches, he was actually getting cheers while in the ring with main event guys. The ONLY time the crowd actually went 'meh' for Ryder, was that horror movie theme the writers used for the January 9, 2012 Raw when Kane stalked himand Eve. My God, that was just awful writing... I would've gone "meh" if they took out Ryder and inserted The Rock in that role.

The only thing you got right about Ryder is that he then disappeared. The WWE took the rights to his YouTube show, canceled it, and then wrote him off TV for all of February. If that's your idea of a push, then you might need to readjust your idea of being buried.

People seem to forget that Austin didn't happen overnight either. The famous Austin 3:16 speech happened in June of 1996. Austin didn't win the WWE title until March 1998, almost two years later. If the IWC had existed in it's current form back then, every single discussion would have been filled with posts like "zomg, they r burying SCSA, if he doesn't win the title this week I'm done for good. #WCW #NWO". And speaking of the NWO, the best part of that angle after the initial shock was the feud with Sting. From October 1996 to December 1997 Sting never spoke a single word, and he waited 14 months for his title match. The match sucked, but the point is that the IWC would have lost interest after two or three months at best.

So much to say about this one. Yes, it's true that Austin's first WWE Title win came about 22 months after his initial Austin 3:16 speech. What you're forgetting is that during those 22 months, the WWE had one hour of weekly programming, didn't feature all its top stars on every pay-per view card, AND that Austin was out of action from August 1997 trough the end of November 1997.

You also seem to be ignoring the very important fact that the YES Chants started two years ago at WrestleMania 28. Austin may have waited 22 months between his star-turning moment and winning the title, but we're already at the 22-month mark for Bryan ... and in those 22 months, Bryan has wrestled at every pay-per view and has appeared on 6 hours worth of weekly television programming. He's basically had about 50 times the exposure at this point that Austin had at the same point. If we're just comparing this to the time it took Austin, then the trigger should've been pulled on Bryan at the 2013 Royal Rumble.

As for the "there was no IWC in 1996" comment .... You're kidding, right? We existed back then. We didn't have WrestleZone, but there were other sites for information - hotlines, too. And when we wanted to discuss these things, we may not have had a message board forum, but we had these things called chat rooms.

And finally, on to Sting. You realize that angle pretty much killed WCW, right? The reason most fans didn't turn on it was because we all knew it was leading to Starcade, WCW's WrestleMania. And they didn't let us down in that regard... but they absolutely let us down in the conclusion. WCW was never the same after that event.

That's basically the same path the WWE is on right now in terms of turning off their hardcore fans. I don't want to see Bryan win the title at the Elimination Chamber or Extreme Rules. It needs to be done at WrestleMania - on the biggest stage. That's the only proper ending to this. And since they've already taken away this hope, I assure you that I won't be ordering the WWE Network until they restore that hope. I'll watch WrestleMania at a friend's house - or maybe at a bar. But I promise you, if the plan is to give Bryan the title at Extreme Rules, it'll have happened at a time after I've turned off my television set and stopped watching this product.

 

[johnbragg]

^^^Ding Ding Ding Ding. I've been saying this for years. The WWE is all about agendas. VKM's and HHH's agenda is to push the vision they have for the product, but when the live crowds are trying to push that vision in a different direction, they do what they can to steer it back on course.

And as this poster points out, this is exactly how they do it. Their goal with Bryan - as it was with Ryder and Punk before - is to "give the fans what they want' in such a way that the fans will turn their back on it. That way, the next time fans say they aren't being given what they want, they can point to how the crowd died down for Ryder and Punk as evidence that they know what's best for business - as if they tried to give us what we wanted, we realized we didn't want it, and they're not going to make that mistake again!

I don't actually think it's that cynical. They see doing something different as a risk. They don't want to risk Wrestlemania on Daniel Bryan or CM Punk. So they'll experiment with giving them "their moment" at B-level PPVs to see how it goes. Maybe it works--I don't think the WWE brain trust expected the Doctor of Thuganomics to become the company's biggest babyface.

Of course, that ignores the fact that timing matters--that what may be hot right now may cool off. (I still can't believe that they didn't give Your Olympic Hero Kurt Angle the title(s) after September 11 and milked the U!S!A! cheers for every last cent.) Casual, Attitude-Era fans are drifting in now who could be galvanized by Daniel Bryan being fresh and interesting, but drift away if he doesn't "pay off" at Wrestlemania.

 

[johnbragg]

Burial
The worked lowering (relegation) of a popular wrestler's status in the eyes of the fans. It is the act of a promoter or booker causing a wrestler to lose popularity by forcing him to lose in squash matches, continuously, and/or participate in unentertaining or degrading storylines. It can be a form of punishment for real-life backstage disagreements or feuds between the wrestler and the booker, the wrestler falling out of favor with the company, or the wrestler receiving an unpopular gimmick that causes him to lose credibility regardless of win-loss record.

You're exactly the type of person that does not know the definition of "buried." When you're buried, you're done and basically never heard from again.

Bzzzt. Wrong. You've given several examples of wrestlers who were BURIED in a feud--who came out of the feud less over, less popular than they came in--and were able to rebuild their careers.

But they had to rebuild them.

By your interpretation, HHH and HBK didn't bury the Spirit Squad, because Nick came back as Dolph Ziggler.

By my interpretation, they DID bury the Spirit Squad, even though Ken Doane/Dykstra stayed on WWE TV for a while, and Nemeth rebuilt his career as Dolph Ziggler.

Don't get me started on the Katie Vick thing. The storyline itself was just awful, sh*t on by the fans, and totally deemphasized in the feud between the two because it was just that terrible.

Or because it is a shining example of a wrestler being buried--losing popularity by forcing him to lose matches, and participate in unentertaining and degrading storylines, with an unpopular gimmick of whatever-Kane's-character-was-there replacing the very popular, very over Big Red Machine.

Pretty sure after that, Kane then WON the tag titles with RVD, turned heel, then jumped back into a headlining feud with Triple H and Goldberg for the WHC. If you can tell me how Kane was "buried" during any part of his WWE career, I'll send you Girl Scout Cookies.

Kane was never as popular or as over after Katie Vick as he was before Katie Vick.

Same with Booker T. Sure he was booked into the IC Title picture and US Title pictures for the next few years, but Triple H's stock was also at its absolute peak '02-'05. You couldn't have bought a better heel champion than Triple H during that time period. He was "the guy." He deserved it. But guess what? In '06, there was this little character named "King Booker" who was also one of the best heel WHC title holders ever. Just because you aren't headlining every single week DOES NOT mean you're buried.

Just because you aren't fired doesn't mean you aren't buried. After HHH was through burying Booker T, who held his own in a feud with the Rock, Booker Huffman needed a complete character rebuild to be a credible main eventer again.

 

[bioshock]

I think people are getting it wrong. Bryan should win at WM30 for the moment. So all the fans are happy on the biggest stage when everyone is watching, I don't think WWE needs another WM to end with the crowd pissed off, ala Ziggler not cashing in.

Bryan wins the belt some how at WM30, then at the Seattle show when the crowds 100% behind him, use that event to turn someone heel, or put someone over. Let who ever beat Bryan for the belt at that event, the show would end with someone getting massive heat. Does it carry over? I dunno. But it makes more sense then Bryan winning the belt then. Its way too damn predictable for him to win the belt in Seattle, that's Kurt winning the belt over Austin in Pittsburgh all over again.

 

[Da Solo]

On another thread I postulated that the worst possible thing the WWE could do to kill Bryan's momentum is give him the title. Ultimately he has to win it, of course, you have to have that payoff eventually, but the key is to do it at the right time. WM30 is probably the best time and place to do it, although from a booking standpoint it seems like it would be very difficult to get there from here. In all honesty, I can see Triple H causing Bryan to somehow lose the EC match, leading to their match at WM30, and the stipulation that if he beats Hunter he gets his match at Extreme Rules. This would actually be smarter booking, in my opinion, for one simple reason...

Extreme Rules will be held in Seattle this year. Seattle, as in Daniel Bryan's hometown. While it doesn't hold the same prestige as Wrestlemania 30, obviously, imagine that moment, Daniel Bryan closing the show with the titles held high in his own hometown...

This painfully reminds me of a somewhat similar scenario about 14 years back. It was around WM time in the year 2000, leading up to WM 16/WM 2000. Main event: Rock vs. HHH. Rock, at this point, is the face of the company, and at this point surpassed Austin. Now, instead of the one on one blowoff everyone expected, it was made a fatal 4 way with Show and Foley for the "McMahon in every corner gimmick", which wasn't a deal breaker and was understandable. So it's all going down and we're waiting for Rock to get his WM moment with the world title win, regardless of Show and Foley. However, instead of coming full circle with an angle like it was so easy to do, HHH goes over and Steph takes a Rock Bottom to make up for it. Sure, Rock goes on to win it at Backlash to one of the loudest ovations of life, but Backlash is not Mania, which leads many to this day to still question what in the actual f*ck was the point of bucking WM for Backlash?

Now, that was pretty similar to Bryan today: The WM moment is there, but WWE is going to buck it to fulfill their own agenda (i.e. HHH's) for no good reason, but with a few stark differences:

1. The heel to Rock was actually enjoyable to watch in their dynamic; Bryan's foil beat the dogshit out of him for weeks with no clean payoff and a Wyatt intervention, which makes Bryan's win that much more necessary. The heels here are not doing their part.

2. Rock was their top option at the time, and was hot. Bryan is in the process of becoming that, but WWE is hanging on to Cena with all they got, and then reintroducing Batista into the fold, leaving us to question why they don't just trust Bryan, and the fans, who have made their allegiance to Bryan, are mad as hell, and rightfully so

3. At the very least, HHH/Rock did happen at the show of shows and get a rematch. Bryan, however, is going into the biggest show of the year in an undercard match against HHH's buddy, and MIGHT only get an "upgrade" to HHH himself because Punk decided to split for real this time.

WWE is not doing some elaborate shtick with Bryan. They tried to keep him out of the title picture. Why else would he get his ass beat for literally weeks in a row, secure one dirty win for the title then get shoved out, again get ragtagged by the Wyatt's repeatedly just to lose the big match to Bray so that he can be strong enough to get fed to Cena at WM, then not even be in the Rumble? Believe me, if the crowd didn't call WWE on their shit, Bryan would be in some upper midcard feud with no chance at the title until some B PPV later in the year. Now theories as to why? I have a few:

1. Batista just got signed back, which presumably took a ton of money. So to keep him happy, they give him his title shot at Mania at Bryan's expense.

2. HHH doesn't want to do the obligatory job for Bryan or wants a superstar HE champions to go over, which, knowing Hunter's history, is not unbelievable.

3. They seriously are still on this "big guys only" kick.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

People pay far too much attention to win-lose records then they really should quite honestly. The idea of buried is what happened to Ryder, he was brought out, did little to nothing, lost a lot of matches (he was pretty much destroyed by Sheamus) and now he's dead and gone, never to be seen again. I don't consider buried until the day they are taken off T.V. and gone for good, even going on a massive losing streak, you're still being shown on T.V. and still being used.

If it's the case of you showing up maybe once every 3 months and losing a match, that pretty much counts for anyone who was there before, got a push and then was dropped to that position of putting over talent in squash matches.

The concept of losing and suddenly getting buried is definitely a overreaction. Bryan has been going for a while, he hasn't lost a step, people are still supporting him and he's still getting shot after shot after shot to build him up over time.

What's an underdog who always wins or reaches his goal? Who is, John Cena?

John Cena is not an underdog, he's a superman babyface. WWE will call him an underdog to make his superman performances mean more. He's pretty clearly booked like a superman babyface though.

Glad you agree with everything else I said.

Something for you guys to think about, ever wonder if a HUGE reason Punk got less over after the summer of 2011 was that he was champ? When an underdog wins the belt, it kind of feels like you're staying after the movie to watch the credits.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

This painfully reminds me of a somewhat similar scenario about 14 years back. It was around WM time in the year 2000, leading up to WM 16/WM 2000. Main event: Rock vs. HHH. Rock, at this point, is the face of the company, and at this point surpassed Austin. Now, instead of the one on one blowoff everyone expected, it was made a fatal 4 way with Show and Foley for the "McMahon in every corner gimmick", which wasn't a deal breaker and was understandable. So it's all going down and we're waiting for Rock to get his WM moment with the world title win, regardless of Show and Foley. However, instead of coming full circle with an angle like it was so easy to do, HHH goes over and Steph takes a Rock Bottom to make up for it. Sure, Rock goes on to win it at Backlash to one of the loudest ovations of life, but Backlash is not Mania, which leads many to this day to still question what in the actual f*ck was the point of bucking WM for Backlash?

Now, that was pretty similar to Bryan today: The WM moment is there, but WWE is going to buck it to fulfill their own agenda (i.e. HHH's) for no good reason, but with a few stark differences:

1. The heel to Rock was actually enjoyable to watch in their dynamic; Bryan's foil beat the dogshit out of him for weeks with no clean payoff and a Wyatt intervention, which makes Bryan's win that much more necessary. The heels here are not doing their part.

2. Rock was their top option at the time, and was hot. Bryan is in the process of becoming that, but WWE is hanging on to Cena with all they got, and then reintroducing Batista into the fold, leaving us to question why they don't just trust Bryan, and the fans, who have made their allegiance to Bryan, are mad as hell, and rightfully so

3. At the very least, HHH/Rock did happen at the show of shows and get a rematch. Bryan, however, is going into the biggest show of the year in an undercard match against HHH's buddy, and MIGHT only get an "upgrade" to HHH himself because Punk decided to split for real this time.

WWE is not doing some elaborate shtick with Bryan. They tried to keep him out of the title picture. Why else would he get his ass beat for literally weeks in a row, secure one dirty win for the title then get shoved out, again get ragtagged by the Wyatt's repeatedly just to lose the big match to Bray so that he can be strong enough to get fed to Cena at WM, then not even be in the Rumble? Believe me, if the crowd didn't call WWE on their shit, Bryan would be in some upper midcard feud with no chance at the title until some B PPV later in the year. Now theories as to why? I have a few:

1. Batista just got signed back, which presumably took a ton of money. So to keep him happy, they give him his title shot at Mania at Bryan's expense.

2. HHH doesn't want to do the obligatory job for Bryan or wants a superstar HE champions to go over, which, knowing Hunter's history, is not unbelievable.

3. They seriously are still on this "big guys only" kick.

It's not HHHs agenda. Goddamn think like a business person for one second. bryan will win some kind of "win and get a title shot match" at mania. Then he will win the strap in front of his home fans the next month. If Bryan wins at Mania, ER buyrates and views are down. It's basic business. If you are normally super busy during March and April, you don't have your best deals then, you have your best deals in May and June to keep that momentum.

1. This is probably true, doesn't mean Bryan couldn't beat Batista though.

2. You're looney. HHH's reputation is 100% speculation on your part. He has a bias just like anyone else, but if you look at the style of talent coming up through NXT (HHH's creation at this point), you'd realize how crazy you look.

3. No they aren't. They haven't been on a big guy kick in 30 years. They push whoever is over and makes them money.

Also, you should know by now to not EVER buy into the dirtsheets. You honestly think that Bryan was going to wrestle Sheamus on the undercard? Lol

The office has worked many of you. They use the reputation you think they have to get storylines more over. It's pretty clear if you pull your head out of each other's ass and realize that the dirtsheets are garbage. Zero truth. It's speculation pushed as journalism.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

No. He was chasing the title from SummerSlam until right before Survivor Series. He never won a lasting victory over Orton and the Authority. Instead he was demoted to a feud with the Wyatt Family.

If ESPN Sportscenter hadn't run clips of college football teams doing Bryan's YES! cheer, Bryan would still be screwing around with the Wyatt Family. As it is, he's still more likely to face Sheamus at Wrestlemania than he is to be in the title match.

With Punk gone, most likely WWE will put him in against HHH. So WWE will put their most over star in the No. 3 or 4 match, behind ORton-Batista, Undertaker-(?)Lesnar and maybe behind Cena vs Bray Wyatt.



No, a minute ago he was in a feud with the Wyatt Family.



So until he is completely and conclusively buried, it's not legitimate to recognize patterns and say "The WWE is currently burying Bryan."

No, actually it is absolutely legitimate to draw the conclusion that WWE does not believe in Daniel Bryan and is going to do what they damn well please and tell the audience to quit whining and enjoy it.



Winning the title after Wrestlemania, at Extreme Rules, is an anti-climax. Wrestlemania is the WWE's showcase, "the grand-daddy of them all." Last year, 1,000,000 houses bought Wrestlemania. 250,000 bought Extreme Rules. Very clearly, WWE sees Wrestlemania as the place for the Lesnars and Cenas and ORtons and Batistas, and Extreme Rules as the place for the Bryans and the CM Punks.



"Be patient" very often means "we're going to run out the clock and see if this guys runs out of steam" in WWE.

DB winning the strap at ER in front of his home fans is the opposite of anti climatic. I'm glad you brought up buys. Mania does 1,000,000 and a million see Bryan win a match that guarantees him a match for the title in his hometown. What do you think that does to Extreme Rules buyrates? They go up.

""Be patient" very often means "we're going to run out the clock and see if this guys runs out of steam" in WWE" uh...WWE never wants anyone to run out of steam. They want to make money. Some of you seriously think WWE has some agenda against smaller guys. They have an agenda against guys who don't make them money. Bryan has been booked very well. He's an underdog. If he had held the belt from Summerslam until now, or hell, even from Summerslam to Survivor Series, he's not as over as he is now. Are you as hungry after eating as before? No, same thing. That's why Punk wasn't as over after the Summer of Punk 2. Once the underdog babyface accomplishes what he needs, there is less of an appeal to the character. How do you guys not get this? It's storytelling 101.

 

[Best in the World]

John Cena is not an underdog, he's a superman babyface. WWE will call him an underdog to make his superman performances mean more. He's pretty clearly booked like a superman babyface though.

And the joke and reference falls flat for me. That was both a reference to Jeopardy and how WWE perceives Cena to be to put him over as much as possible with the crowd, of course, by now people know otherwise.

Something for you guys to think about, ever wonder if a HUGE reason Punk got less over after the summer of 2011 was that he was champ? When an underdog wins the belt, it kind of feels like you're staying after the movie to watch the credits.

Well. Thinking about it, walking into Money in the Bank, CM Punk was the underdog compared to Cena, it was built upon weeks before with the whole "Cena/Red Sock's/Yankee's" speech from Punk.

I don't think it was the case of that happening though. I think they pulled the trigger a little too fast, it really made Punk look like a hypocrite, "walking out with the title" and then all of a sudden "signing back" with the company he was so passionate on leaving. Over time he momentum started to cool more and more with Cena in the more high-profile feuds, while Punk was pretty much left in the dust, and the WWE Championship was being shown as "beneath" Cena, to the point where Cena majority of the time would main event most of the PPV's. What really killed Punk's momentum though was the loss to HHH, if Punk had won that match-up he would have been at least able to make up some of the momentum he had.

As for Bryan. At the moment he is riding on the underdog gimmick, but I'm questioning how long the reactions will last one it's over and done with. Once he's achieved what he's had to achieve, what more would there before for him? Maybe a feud with The Authority, but it does have me wondering how long people will continue to support him once he is holding onto the title and has officially won.