Bodybuilding and Steroids in WWE

[BigT_HolyShit]

Before you shoot this down and think, hey another 'steroid thread', its far from that. This is my first thread so bare with me.

I have been a long-time visitor of WrestleZone and this is an issue that really intrigues me. I, like alot of others here I'm sure, admire the ability for Wrestlers to perform predominantly the most part of their weeks and putting there bodies on the line day in, day out. In addition to this, the training these athletes endure to look the way they look. I myself would know, as I train 5 days a week and Bodybuilding is my life and I would like to think I know alot about it. If I'm not on here, I'm on a bodybuilding site reading. It's a 24 hour thing..

To the point, over the years, watching different performers and superstars and the evolution of their bodies over time has become another facet of my viewing. I'm assuming we all know that in the Wrestling Business, in order to train, diet and perform, there must be some sort of Enhancing drug involved. Whether it'd be for relieving pain, or simply for the added endurance.

Steroids and Bodybuilding go hand in hand. Fact. I will argue this thread to the end. I have competed in Natural Bodybuilding Competitions in Sydney for the under 90kg contest and know about the industry. Steroids are present in Natural Comps as well. The testing systems does not test for certain substances, or should I say certain substances are undetected under the test. Eg hGh Human Grown Hormone.

My question or interest is predominantly in the Wellness Policy the WWE has in place. I believe the policy is a loada shit and not reducing the occurence and use in the WWE in addition to protecting its superstars from ABUSE of these steroids which in term, leads to the side effects I'm sure you are all aware of. Yet on the contrary I sometimes think hang on, the examples of the Policy working is also present.

Some examples:

Yes Batista has used Steroids, No Shit. If you remember his Leviathan or Deacon Batista days, he was 4 times the size in comparison to now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlRnvga-6DM

He is much drier, holding less water retention and looks aesthetically more pleasing now due to the proportionality he has now. In my opinion, Batista isn't using or not using as much as before due to the Wellness Policy maybe? You may bring up his age and him not being able to hold as much muscle yet here's another example.

Randy Orton. You may think, he's not big enough to be using steroids? I know steroid use when I see it in addition to his name being on the list from that shady doc. The water retention is present and he was also double the size before as compared to his dry and lean viper look, which I think is much better. Could this be due to the Wellness Policy.

There are more examples, Kennedy, Regal, Santino (first capturing the Intercon. Title), Christian, Edge etc.

My question is this. There is no doubt steroid use is present in my opinion. Is the evolution of these superstars, from larger to slimmer or drier, due to the Wellness Policy or other reasons that you may bring up..

 

[GeminiJ13]

Triple H has used, he even used to be a bodybuilder in his teens. Look at Hunter Hearst Helmsly compared to The Game, after he gave up the tights for underwear he kept getting bigger. Great Khali had to use to get that toned for such a huge man (former 2x Mr.India), but he is about as mobile as the statue of Liberty.Honestly it would be easier to compile a list of ppl who are NOT using steroids. Jack Swagger is natural (arms a that of a basketball player), Cena is natural (a body expert, has a degree in fitness and his younger bro Matt is a bodybuilder), Finlay all guts, Regal has used in the past but is gaining weight, Kofi is clean, Ziggler is clean (although in great shape), DH Smith is a prime example of what his dad would have looked like without steroids. John Morrison is clean and ripped. Matt Hardy has and probably is using steroids, and we all know that Jeff was using them with little to no affect. WWE should have kept RVD and let him smoke his weed (they let Orton smoke it, but he didnt get caught and didnt make headlines). Chris Jericho is clean and probably always has been, hes too smart to damage his body like that. The Undertaker is probably smarter than that also, just managed to stay in great shape and only wrestles high profile matches. (still has a 6pack at 42!) Taker wrestles what, 30 times a year? We all know that CM Punk is the cleanest guy in american sports since Cal Ripken, anybody that has "drug free" tatooed on his knucks is probably not contradicting himself. On the other hand, seriously get rid of Chris Masters, hes a walking ad for steroids and has NO wrestling talent.I've had matches on my trampoline with a teddy bear that was more exciting than every time Masters wrestles. The only person that obviously has taken more steroids than Masters is Scott Steiner (who probably cant scratch his own back). Ryklon Stephens (Ezekial Jackson) has gotta be taking horse pills! He is bigger than Lesnar and Lashley, a freak of nature! Zeke is bigger than any NFL player, including the ones on steroids (thats You, Shawne Merriman).

 

[SuperKick36]

Alot of the superstars mentioned here aren't on steroids (or at least not anymore). Most of them take a crap load of supplements. Unfortunately, that's going to destroy their liver and bladder.

I'd like to see more natural wrestlers, but since professional wrestling pushes for those big, monsterous 300+ lb men, the entertainers pretty much have to take steroids to get that big that quick.

 

[JJYanks121]

I hate to contradict you Gemini, but you are making assumptions without knowledge. The truth is, half the guys you said were "too smart" or "he doesn't look like it" are actually the opposite. Most wrestlers who come from the last generation have at some point used performance enhancing drugs. There is a reason that so many tragedies have occurred. To survive, merely survive in the industry up until a few years ago, you HAD to keep up with everyone so you basically had to take some things. It is a vicious industry in that regrard.

The silver lining was the Chris Benoit murder/suicide. I hate to use it in such a way, but the truth is, the WWE has at least tried to crack down since then. Whether you want to believe it or not, our first poster hit the nail on the head that even most of the bigger wrestlers look smaller these days. Now either I've gotten bigger (which I haven't), or they are just not larger than life anymore. This is probably because of fear of getting caught and fear of going down the road of someone like Benoit.

Now, we cannot dismiss the fact that the business is all about lifting, throwing and controlling another human body in a squared circle, so bodybuilding is a must. Building muscle and strength and keeping the body in tip-top shape is so necessary to stay around in the business. I'm no bodybuilding expert, but I think if you dedicate yourself to it daily, it is possible to build strength and muscle, just perhaps not as fast as when the body is using enhancement drugs. I'm not going to speculate on those who we don't know about, but there are plenty of books you can read written by wrestlers themselves where they talk candidly about their drug usage. It was a lot more prevalent than you could ever imagine, and only recently has the business started to rid itself of the stuff, at least with the majority of performers.

Last point is that we can all speculate all we want, but I will say this, Gemini's list is kinda way off. You mention Jericho who admits in his book that he dabbled in steroids back in the day, you mention John Morrison who is the one guy stupid enough to get caught TWICE doing steroids since he's been with WWE, and a few others that I can't remember off the top of my head. We can all speculate as to whether the bigger guys have done the stuff but until they get caught or admit it, we'll never know. In the case of some, all you have to do is do some research or read and you'll find the truth. I urge everyone to remember the drug tests and to read some autobiographies before you name names. It's never good to be put in a category where you belong, I'm just sayin'.

 

[Cebeards]

Before I start...I'm gonna let you know I'm probably gonna ramble....enjoy

For Starters....Randy Orton has also been caught twice; imagine if HHH got tested over the years?

I think the wellness policy is a load of crap...not kidding at all, load of crap. This is wrestling we are talking about, these guys need steroids more than any other athlete I can think of. McMahon has know this for years...and years.......and years. McMahon has been using on and off for years, same with his son in law. Vince has always been a fan of physiques, he knows how they are built; whether it is from the prospective of a bodybuilder or a pro wrestler, Vince understands that these drugs are just as necessary as pain killers in this business. With that in mind, I have to question the validity of the wellness policy and it's testing procedures.

For the record Cortisol is a steroid...do they test for that? No, they administer that. Don't promote something that is just as/or more dangerous than anabolic steroids and then try to demonize anabolic steroids; drugs that can be used safely and have been used in medicine since the 30's.

As far as these guys being jacked up on "supplements", get your head out of your ass. Here's a point I want you to think over, supplements, especially when you really get into higher doses with multiple compounds is more toxic to the body than anabolic steroids (when injected safely/properly in moderate doses) will ever be; with positive muscle building effects that can no where near reach that of anabolic steroids. Oral steroids are crap, they are dangerous in high doses and most gains are lost, most WWE superstars are looking for injectable based lower dosed, longer cycles, why do you think most wrestlers get popped with HGH; it's the easiest compound to stay on for the longest period of time. They need to keep their bodies from breaking down, it's science.

Steroids in sports....
-Baseball...asterisk next to your record, day in court, suspension
-Football...2 game suspension...but that really depends on who you are
-Wrestling...30 day suspension..maybe..depending on who you are and what you get caught with
-Carl Lewis...Gold Medal, after testing positive for the exact same things as Ben Johnson

Well, I guess as long as the US looks good in the Olympics......

 

[cwheathman]

To be honest with everyone, congress is the only people who seem to care if a sports entertainer is on steroids. In fact, when have you ever seen any baseball players have to testify before congress. I admire the wrestlers athletic and storytelling abilities, but I could care less about what they do in the dressing room. They aren't breaking olympic records.

 

[samboisdead]

Well first off I want you to do some research. Steroids have never been listed on any death certificate as a cause of death. The most famous case ever Lyle Alzado, his own doctor said he had a rare brain disease that was in no way related to steroid use. After coming out and blaiming it all on the roids he couldnt exactly jump on t.v. and say oops I was wrong. Benoit, I dont really no how steroids get into that conversation so much. Benoit had so much brain damage from concussions that he had the brain of a 4 year old. Could steroids helped to have pushed him over the edge...possibly, but so could have alcohol, pain killers, depression not related to roids, or many other things. If you really do the research most doctors actually support steroids if used under the care of a medical professional. Steroids do have problems and they can cause serious health problems. Most people who experience these serious problems are abusers of the drug. In other words they take 2 or 3 times the dose or mix 4 to 5 roids together. News flash eating to many hamburgers, drinking to many soft drinks, alcohol, cigarettes, gluttony, obesity, laziness all these can cause all the same problems as taking steroids without any of the benifits. Now this is just my little conspiracy theory but I belive the reason the goverment is so against steroids is lets think about it. Part of the goverments job is to police the people. If you are a cop do you really want to no that everytime you pull over a guy someone HHHs size is going to be setting their? Ok like I said thats just my opinion its probably alot bigger than that but anyway I can legally smoke a cigarette which has the same chance to kill me as steroids, but I cant take a drug that will help me become better. On to my next topic, all you people who think steroids are cheating and want to say that guy on roids took a shortcut. Steroids do alot of physical things to the body. The main thing steroids do though is give you the energy and the power to work out longer and harder than a normal person. In other words that big juic monster that you say cheated worked 10 times harder than that all natural guy you think is so great in most cases. Steroids are not magic, these guys still work their asses off and have to measure every little bit of food they touch. Batista for example told in a recent issue of Muscle&Fitness that about one day every 6 months he goes crazy and eats a ton of junk food. So in other words that McDonalds trip you take everyday well Batista gets to do that 2 times a year to keep his look. Ok I no this is long sorry but it really pisses me off when people start talking all this shit on roid users. I can tell you right now I could hook a steroid I.V. to my arm and walk around getting injected everyday and I could never do what say Shawn Merriman does(to the guy that was cracking on Merriman do you really think their is 1 NFL starter out their that doesnt use steroids or something similiar). Another news flash their are alot fo legal steroids some you can buy at Wal Mart such as DHEA. How come we dont mind a guy using these? To the guy that said Jericho never used roids. He has admitted to using them before in an interview, also have you not noticed his curent look, he has lost most of his muscle mass plus grown a decent little gut. To the guy saying Jeff Hardy was using them with no results. Not all steroids are used to make you huge. The great thing about steroids is their amazing healing powers. A guy that has taken as many insane bumps as Hardy now what 31,32? I bet he could really go for something that heals you. As far as the Wellness policy it is bullshit. I dont see McMahon losing any size do you? How can he subject these guys to this while he sits back and takes them. Have some guys quit. Definately but not the top guys. Sorry man Cena is on roids, Batista may have switched what he is taking but yep he is still on them, same with HHH, Masters probably just switched what he was using to something easier to pass the test with, as far as Undertaker I would be willing to bet he is on some kind of cutter, Orton is probably natural right now, anyway point is the guys who want to use them will find a way. Their are 10 times more actors that die each year from drugs than in wrestling. Yet movie studios arent under pressure from congress to drug test actors before casting them. Wrestling is attacked because someone has an agenda. For one the goverment hates Vince. I dont no why but its pretty obvious they are out to get him. Reason two is wrestling isnt accepted by the main stream, no one cares if NFL players use them, and honestly the steroid storys in baseball have helped baseball regain public attention when they were using it instead of hurting them. Anyway the reason so many wrestlers die each year is simply explained. Most people who get into wrestling are already diffrent from normal people. Pain gives them an adrenilin rush, they have no fear of hurting their body and very little fear of death. I have wrestled in the indys for year and most guys are more afrain of a broken neck and being paralyzed as opposed to death. In other words most of the personalitys that are drawn to wrestling are already a little out on the edge. Some people blame it on the WWE schedule but the majority of the people with problems are on the indy circuit when it gets out of control. Look at Scott Hall..sure he had problems when he was in WCW but he kept them in check. It wasnt until he was gone from WCW and had tons of time on his hands that he really went out of control. Anyway if you have read all this thank you. Sorry for the long post but this subject really touches a nerve with me.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well first off I want you to do some research. Steroids have never been listed on any death certificate as a cause of death.

Of course not. It's just listed as "heart disease", with a heart 3 or 4 times larger than normal.

Right Eddie Guerrero?

Benoit, I dont really no how steroids get into that conversation so much.

Perhaps because he had MONTHS worth of testosterone in his home? Perhaps because his autopsy showed testosterone levels 10 times the normal level? Do you think?

If you really do the research most doctors actually support steroids if used under the care of a medical professional.

Of course they do. But prescribed steroids are not what we are talking about.

Now this is just my little conspiracy theory but I belive the reason the goverment is so against steroids is lets think about it. Part of the goverments job is to police the people. If you are a cop do you really want to no that everytime you pull over a guy someone HHHs size is going to be setting their?

Really? You don't think it's because of the harmful effects to the body, as well as the much reported "roid rage" that occurs when testosterone levels get abnormally high?

Ok like I said thats just my opinion its probably alot bigger than that but anyway I can legally smoke a cigarette which has the same chance to kill me as steroids, but I cant take a drug that will help me become better.

To the best of my knowledge, cigarettes have never caused people to become violent.

The main thing steroids do though is give you the energy and the power to work out longer and harder than a normal person. In other words that big juic monster that you say cheated worked 10 times harder than that all natural guy you think is so great in most cases.

Well, no fucking duh.

How fucking stupid is this statement. Of COURSE he worked out 10 times harder, like you just said, he had the energy to do so. THAT is why it is considered cheating.

For fuck's sake.

Steroids are not magic, these guys still work their asses off and have to measure every little bit of food they touch.

As does anyone who has the same goals to which you speak.

The difference is, they are not cheating.

Ok I no this is long sorry but it really pisses me off when people start talking all this shit on roid users.

Yes, how dare we get upset when people break the law, take illegal drugs which can cause violent outbursts, and then proceed to damage an individual's body to the point they require hundreds of thousands of dollars of healthcare which comes out of my pocket.

How dare we.

I can tell you right now I could hook a steroid I.V. to my arm and walk around getting injected everyday and I could never do what say Shawn Merriman does

You're probably right. But, then again, without steroids, Shawne Merriman couldn't do what Shawne Merriman does.

You see, an increase in performance is still an increase in performance.

Another news flash their are alot fo legal steroids some you can buy at Wal Mart such as DHEA. How come we dont mind a guy using these?

Perhaps because DHEA doesn't cause the same changes in an individual's body as other steroids? Just a guess.

The great thing about steroids is their amazing healing powers.

Yes, and we still don't consider this cheating?

Sorry man Cena is on roids

Yeah? Prove it. I doubt it.

Yet movie studios arent under pressure from congress to drug test actors before casting them.

They will when a famous actor goes Benoit on his family.

Wrestling is attacked because someone has an agenda.

Yes, that agenda is called "being re-elected".

Sorry for the long post but this subject really touches a nerve with me.

I noticed. It's a shame you have such misguided views on it.

 

[samboisdead]

Ok steroids can cause an enlarged heart I admitted that if abused they had serious risk I got bad news for you guys though for years doctors have claimed that just wrestling alone was hard on the heart. Know lets however look at what all can cause an enlarged heart. High blood pressure which could have been caused by steroids, or lets take steroids out of the picture and pretend Eddie never used them. I am pretty sure we were told Eddie liked to drink alot. Their is just as good of chance alcohol could have given him high blood pressure even if he never touched roids and led to the same ending. I will list the others but not go into detail as you get my point and you can look the others up if you want to no more. Heart valve disease, weakness of the heart muscle (cardiomyopathy), A heart condition you're born with (congenital heart defect), abnormal heartbeat (arrhythmia), high blood pressure in the artery connecting your heart and lungs (pulmonary hypertension), low red blood cell count (anemia), thyroid disorders, need I go on. Eddie could have had any of this their is no proof in anyway that steroids had anything to do with his death.
My point with the doctor thing is most doctors belive that anyone should be able to come in and get steroids but they should be undercare. Most of your top wrestlers are worth millions. While alot of them dont get their roids legally do you really think these guys dont stay in close touch with doctors this day and age. I bet Cena for example has medically licensed trainers with him daily helping him to work out. The only guys who probably dont have this are the guys low on the card who are basically their to take up time. And most of them still see a doctor a few times a month.

Have you ever taken or been around people who do take roids?
You say roid rage? All males with normal testosterone have a tendency to get violent. The diffrence is some choose to control it and some dont. The same can be said for steroids. This so called roid rage cases are with the same guys who would lose their cool even if they were not on roids. The only diffrence is now you have a hugely powerful individual getting upset as opposed to just your average Joe. I actually work as an athletic trainer. I am around roid users non stop daily. Most of these people are alot happier than normal people because simply they are healthier. As far as Benoit yeah he had tons of roids in his home. Their is nothing to connect the roids to his going insane though.
Cigarettes you got me their they dont make people violent. They do however hurt anyone around you at the time. Thousands of people each year die from second hand smoke but yet they are legal. Steroids on the other hand lets say I am wrong roid rage is real and the Benoit case was completely caused by a case of this. As tragic as it was we have 3 people dead as opposed to thousands hmmm. And oh yea I dont no the exact number I think it is around 25 to 30 percent though which is a very large number of violent crimes each year can be directly related to alcohol yet it is still legal hmmm. Also cigarettes and alcohol cost alot more of your tax money for medical care than steroids ever would.
As far as cheating goes so it is not cheating to take legal supplements oh by the way did the rich kid thats parents paid for him to have a personal trainer and go to 30 football camps a month since he was 10 years old cheat? My point or what I am asking is that is anything that gives you an edge cheating, i.e. if its raining at a football game and one school is richer than the other and has extra cleats made for the rain for their kids to wear did they cheat?
Well you kinda proved my point. You came at my post closed minded and threw your opinion and stuff you heard on t.v. at me but no facts. Most of this post is my opinion as well but at least I do accompany mine with facts while you only throw out heresay such as the enlarged heart of Gurrero. Also while I am a steroid supporter I dont think I said anything in my post that was disrespectful to people who belive diffrent. I did say that people throwing around opinions on the subject as facts pisses me off like you did but even with that I didnt disrespect them where as your counter post is obviouslly an attempt to disrespect me.
Lets address your views of Shawn Merriman. Well I seen later in my post where I said Cena was on roids and you replied for me to prove it. Well how can you prove that Merriman wouldnt have been just as good without them? The point of this post was steroids dont turn you into a superstar athlete. If you dont already have the talent then all the roids in the world will not get you their. Obviously this was way over your head though.
On you saying DHEA is legal because it doesnt do all that illegal roids do. Actually DHEA doesnt raise test to the level of illegal steroids. So you dont gain as much size. However if you abuse DHEA it has the same side effects as say Depot Test one of the most popular illegal steroids.
On steroids being cheating because they heal you and this possibly being Hardys use for them. Hmm Aspirin has pretty amazing healing abilities which is why they relive pain. If I have a headache before a game or a match and pop an Aspirin did I just cheat?
My proof Cena takes roids I have none.Um but his name was on the famed Doctor list wasnt it. Thats about as much proof as you have against Merriman. If you no exactly what Merriman was taking that he was suspended for please tell me I would like to no.
About a famous actor murdering his family like Benoit did.
Um O.J. Simpson, or not sure his name but their was a pretty famous show called Spencer Tracy..that guy violently murdered his wife a few years back.
Your view is the goverment agenda against Vince is to get reelected. You got me there Vince is a big time celebrity who most main stream people hate. I guess that the guy who takes him down would be instantly famous. Glad you at least agreed with me on something though.
Well granted my views are my opinion same as your views are your opinion. So as for me being misguided I am a medically trained athletic trainer sorry if my education and personal experince on the subject doesnt allow me to agree with you. Anyway while I did defend supervised use of steroids my post was more about the fact that people are out to lynch roid users who they obviously enjoy seeing because people on roids make millions a year entertaining them whether it be through sports or entertainment. All the while they stand by and advocate the use of cigarettes and alcohol.

 

[BigT_HolyShit]

Triple H has used, he even used to be a bodybuilder in his teens. Look at Hunter Hearst Helmsly compared to The Game, after he gave up the tights for underwear he kept getting bigger. Great Khali had to use to get that toned for such a huge man (former 2x Mr.India), but he is about as mobile as the statue of Liberty.Honestly it would be easier to compile a list of ppl who are NOT using steroids. Jack Swagger is natural (arms a that of a basketball player), Cena is natural (a body expert, has a degree in fitness and his younger bro Matt is a bodybuilder), Finlay all guts, Regal has used in the past but is gaining weight, Kofi is clean, Ziggler is clean (although in great shape), DH Smith is a prime example of what his dad would have looked like without steroids. John Morrison is clean and ripped. Matt Hardy has and probably is using steroids, and we all know that Jeff was using them with little to no affect. WWE should have kept RVD and let him smoke his weed (they let Orton smoke it, but he didnt get caught and didnt make headlines). Chris Jericho is clean and probably always has been, hes too smart to damage his body like that. The Undertaker is probably smarter than that also, just managed to stay in great shape and only wrestles high profile matches. (still has a 6pack at 42!) Taker wrestles what, 30 times a year? We all know that CM Punk is the cleanest guy in american sports since Cal Ripken, anybody that has "drug free" tatooed on his knucks is probably not contradicting himself. On the other hand, seriously get rid of Chris Masters, hes a walking ad for steroids and has NO wrestling talent.I've had matches on my trampoline with a teddy bear that was more exciting than every time Masters wrestles. The only person that obviously has taken more steroids than Masters is Scott Steiner (who probably cant scratch his own back). Ryklon Stephens (Ezekial Jackson) has gotta be taking horse pills! He is bigger than Lesnar and Lashley, a freak of nature! Zeke is bigger than any NFL player, including the ones on steroids (thats You, Shawne Merriman).

My question I was posing is not whether these guys were using steroids or not, it was whether the evolution of their bodies, the change in their bodies is due to the wellness policy or not.

Duh they use steroids. We can pinpoint who does and who does not. Ezekiel Jackson for example, is a steroid user but he is in the off-season of his bodybuilding so to speak. If you have a look at a competing bodybuilder who is in their offseason, they hold a lot more water and are somewhat "more blown". The reason I may think that Ezekiel has not been "suspended" is due to his effective cycling of the steroids, which I have experience with and simply fall under the radar.

Thats where my question was leading as to whether or not the Wellness Policy has had an effect on the Pro Wrestlers Builds over the years.

 

[BigT_HolyShit]

Triple H has used, he even used to be a bodybuilder in his teens. Look at Hunter Hearst Helmsly compared to The Game, after he gave up the tights for underwear he kept getting bigger. Great Khali had to use to get that toned for such a huge man (former 2x Mr.India), but he is about as mobile as the statue of Liberty.Honestly it would be easier to compile a list of ppl who are NOT using steroids. Jack Swagger is natural (arms a that of a basketball player), Cena is natural (a body expert, has a degree in fitness and his younger bro Matt is a bodybuilder), Finlay all guts, Regal has used in the past but is gaining weight, Kofi is clean, Ziggler is clean (although in great shape), DH Smith is a prime example of what his dad would have looked like without steroids. John Morrison is clean and ripped. Matt Hardy has and probably is using steroids, and we all know that Jeff was using them with little to no affect. WWE should have kept RVD and let him smoke his weed (they let Orton smoke it, but he didnt get caught and didnt make headlines). Chris Jericho is clean and probably always has been, hes too smart to damage his body like that. The Undertaker is probably smarter than that also, just managed to stay in great shape and only wrestles high profile matches. (still has a 6pack at 42!) Taker wrestles what, 30 times a year? We all know that CM Punk is the cleanest guy in american sports since Cal Ripken, anybody that has "drug free" tatooed on his knucks is probably not contradicting himself. On the other hand, seriously get rid of Chris Masters, hes a walking ad for steroids and has NO wrestling talent.I've had matches on my trampoline with a teddy bear that was more exciting than every time Masters wrestles. The only person that obviously has taken more steroids than Masters is Scott Steiner (who probably cant scratch his own back). Ryklon Stephens (Ezekial Jackson) has gotta be taking horse pills! He is bigger than Lesnar and Lashley, a freak of nature! Zeke is bigger than any NFL player, including the ones on steroids (thats You, Shawne Merriman).

You mention Chris Jericho has not been on steroids? Yes he is NOT now, yet if you have a very short memory Jericho was much, much larger. The days of the Rock/Y2J fued. He's much too smart to use steroids? Hmm so all Steroid users are stupid?

You need to realise that not just the BIGGEST guys are on steroids. That's just a myth you need to wipe from your brain. Steroids doesn't instantly make you large. Jericho is obviously not as Genetically gifted as John Cena for example. A large number of factors come into play.

My question, which I will pose again is, the reduction in size of Jericho and so forth, may this have to do with the Wellness Policy that is gradually being shown to "actually" work, with more superstars being suspended lately? That was my initial question.

 

[BigT_HolyShit]

Well first off I want you to do some research. Steroids have never been listed on any death certificate as a cause of death. The most famous case ever Lyle Alzado, his own doctor said he had a rare brain disease that was in no way related to steroid use. After coming out and blaiming it all on the roids he couldnt exactly jump on t.v. and say oops I was wrong. Benoit, I dont really no how steroids get into that conversation so much. Benoit had so much brain damage from concussions that he had the brain of a 4 year old. Could steroids helped to have pushed him over the edge...possibly, but so could have alcohol, pain killers, depression not related to roids, or many other things. If you really do the research most doctors actually support steroids if used under the care of a medical professional. Steroids do have problems and they can cause serious health problems. Most people who experience these serious problems are abusers of the drug. In other words they take 2 or 3 times the dose or mix 4 to 5 roids together. News flash eating to many hamburgers, drinking to many soft drinks, alcohol, cigarettes, gluttony, obesity, laziness all these can cause all the same problems as taking steroids without any of the benifits. Now this is just my little conspiracy theory but I belive the reason the goverment is so against steroids is lets think about it. Part of the goverments job is to police the people. If you are a cop do you really want to no that everytime you pull over a guy someone HHHs size is going to be setting their? Ok like I said thats just my opinion its probably alot bigger than that but anyway I can legally smoke a cigarette which has the same chance to kill me as steroids, but I cant take a drug that will help me become better. On to my next topic, all you people who think steroids are cheating and want to say that guy on roids took a shortcut. Steroids do alot of physical things to the body. The main thing steroids do though is give you the energy and the power to work out longer and harder than a normal person. In other words that big juic monster that you say cheated worked 10 times harder than that all natural guy you think is so great in most cases. Steroids are not magic, these guys still work their asses off and have to measure every little bit of food they touch. Batista for example told in a recent issue of Muscle&Fitness that about one day every 6 months he goes crazy and eats a ton of junk food. So in other words that McDonalds trip you take everyday well Batista gets to do that 2 times a year to keep his look. Ok I no this is long sorry but it really pisses me off when people start talking all this shit on roid users. I can tell you right now I could hook a steroid I.V. to my arm and walk around getting injected everyday and I could never do what say Shawn Merriman does(to the guy that was cracking on Merriman do you really think their is 1 NFL starter out their that doesnt use steroids or something similiar). Another news flash their are alot fo legal steroids some you can buy at Wal Mart such as DHEA. How come we dont mind a guy using these? To the guy that said Jericho never used roids. He has admitted to using them before in an interview, also have you not noticed his curent look, he has lost most of his muscle mass plus grown a decent little gut. To the guy saying Jeff Hardy was using them with no results. Not all steroids are used to make you huge. The great thing about steroids is their amazing healing powers. A guy that has taken as many insane bumps as Hardy now what 31,32? I bet he could really go for something that heals you. As far as the Wellness policy it is bullshit. I dont see McMahon losing any size do you? How can he subject these guys to this while he sits back and takes them. Have some guys quit. Definately but not the top guys. Sorry man Cena is on roids, Batista may have switched what he is taking but yep he is still on them, same with HHH, Masters probably just switched what he was using to something easier to pass the test with, as far as Undertaker I would be willing to bet he is on some kind of cutter, Orton is probably natural right now, anyway point is the guys who want to use them will find a way. Their are 10 times more actors that die each year from drugs than in wrestling. Yet movie studios arent under pressure from congress to drug test actors before casting them. Wrestling is attacked because someone has an agenda. For one the goverment hates Vince. I dont no why but its pretty obvious they are out to get him. Reason two is wrestling isnt accepted by the main stream, no one cares if NFL players use them, and honestly the steroid storys in baseball have helped baseball regain public attention when they were using it instead of hurting them. Anyway the reason so many wrestlers die each year is simply explained. Most people who get into wrestling are already diffrent from normal people. Pain gives them an adrenilin rush, they have no fear of hurting their body and very little fear of death. I have wrestled in the indys for year and most guys are more afrain of a broken neck and being paralyzed as opposed to death. In other words most of the personalitys that are drawn to wrestling are already a little out on the edge. Some people blame it on the WWE schedule but the majority of the people with problems are on the indy circuit when it gets out of control. Look at Scott Hall..sure he had problems when he was in WCW but he kept them in check. It wasnt until he was gone from WCW and had tons of time on his hands that he really went out of control. Anyway if you have read all this thank you. Sorry for the long post but this subject really touches a nerve with me.

You posed some very true comments. Yet please next time bro, can you space out your answer because I had a rough time reading it! Yes, steroids are not a magic drug. You need hard work and dedication to see aesthetically pleasing results.

Whether or not Steroids is cheating is another issue altogether.

 

[Slyfox696]

Ok steroids can cause an enlarged heart I admitted that if abused they had serious risk

So, you agree that steroid use CAN cause death. Great, that was my point all along.

I got bad news for you guys though for years doctors have claimed that just wrestling alone was hard on the heart.

Who gives a fuck? None of those guys died in their 30s.

Know lets however look at what all can cause an enlarged heart. High blood pressure which could have been caused by steroids, or lets take steroids out of the picture and pretend Eddie never used them. I am pretty sure we were told Eddie liked to drink alot. Their is just as good of chance alcohol could have given him high blood pressure even if he never touched roids and led to the same ending. I will list the others but not go into detail as you get my point and you can look the others up if you want to no more.

I know plenty, thanks.

However, we DO know that Eddie abused steroids, and we know (and have both now agreed) that steroids can also cause an enlargement of the heart so...why are we still discussing this?

Have you ever taken or been around people who do take roids?

Yes. And to dismiss the concept of "roid rage" is completely silly to me because of it.

You say roid rage? All males with normal testosterone have a tendency to get violent.

No they don't. Quit making baseless statements.

This so called roid rage cases are with the same guys who would lose their cool even if they were not on roids.

Bullshit and a half.

There have been numerous studies conducted which have shown that those who have taken anabolic steroids are more likely to become violent, manic or even suicidal. Saying it's merely a coincidence is just fucking ridiculous.

I actually work as an athletic trainer.

Congratulations. It's a shame you didn't actually study what steroids do to the body when you were learning to become the trainer.

I am around roid users non stop daily. Most of these people are alot happier than normal people because simply they are healthier.

No, they are NOT healthier. They may be physically more appealing, but they are not necessarily healthier. Besides the adverse mental effects of steroids, they have also been known to cause heart damage, high blood pressure, liver damage, reproductive system damage, or even development of breast tissue.

Saying they are healthier is assuming what a person looks on the outside if a reflection of who they are on the inside. And that's just silly.

As far as Benoit yeah he had tons of roids in his home. Their is nothing to connect the roids to his going insane though.

Who said he went insane? Perhaps he just had a bout of 'roid rage, turned violent, and killed his family in a manic state of anger?

Wait, that would be kind of insane wouldn't it...but then again, that would all be symptoms of steroid abuse. Hmm...


Look, I'm not blaming what Benoit did on steroids. Like you said, we don't know. HOWEVER, to DISMISS the possibility of steroids influencing his actions would be silly.

They do however hurt anyone around you at the time. Thousands of people each year die from second hand smoke but yet they are legal.

You want to ban cigarettes? Fine by me, I'm totally against them.

But you asked why they weren't, so I told you.

Steroids on the other hand lets say I am wrong roid rage is real and the Benoit case was completely caused by a case of this. As tragic as it was we have 3 people dead as opposed to thousands hmmm.

Which means it is a good thing steroids are illegal. Could you imagine what it would be like if steroids were illegal, and there were bouts of 'roid rage all over the country? How many people would be killed then?

And oh yea I dont no the exact number I think it is around 25 to 30 percent though which is a very large number of violent crimes each year can be directly related to alcohol yet it is still legal hmmm.

Ban it too. I have no problem with that.

The reason alcohol isn't illegal probably has more to do with the fact it is MUCH easier to make alcohol than it is anabolic steroids.

Also cigarettes and alcohol cost alot more of your tax money for medical care than steroids ever would.

Ever would? No, that's completely a hypothesis, you have no idea.

But again, I'm with you on the banning of cigarettes and alcohol. That would be completely fine with me. Ban them all I say.

As far as cheating goes so it is not cheating to take legal supplements

No, it's not. Want to know why? Because they are LEGAL.

See the difference?

oh by the way did the rich kid thats parents paid for him to have a personal trainer and go to 30 football camps a month since he was 10 years old cheat?

No, he was advantaged. But he took his advantage in a LEGAL manner.

See the difference?

My point or what I am asking is that is anything that gives you an edge cheating, i.e. if its raining at a football game and one school is richer than the other and has extra cleats made for the rain for their kids to wear did they cheat?

And my point is that steroids are illegal, and using them gives an unfair edge over those who choose to obey the law.

So...I don't really understand what your point is.

Well you kinda proved my point.

If your point is that steroids are harmful (which you have agreed to), and that they cause an unfair advantage (which you have agreed to), and they are illegal, then I guess we're both happy.

You came at my post closed minded and threw your opinion and stuff you heard on t.v. at me but no facts.

So it's NOT a fact that Eddie died with an enlarged heart, a fairly common sign of steroid abuse? It's not a fact that both Eddie and his wife had disclosed his steroid abuse? It's not a fact that steroids are illegal? It's not a fact that using them causes an unfair advantage over those who wish to abide by the law?

Those aren't facts? Fuck that. Shut up. I've studied this issue multiple times, and have done hours of research on it. It's not close-minded, it's informed, and seems a whole hell of a lot more informed than what you're presenting, which seems a shame if you truly are an athletic trainer.

Most of this post is my opinion as well but at least I do accompany mine with facts while you only throw out heresay such as the enlarged heart of Gurrero.

HEARSAY? Since when has the report of the medical examiner constituted "hearsay"?

http://www.ergogenics.org/200.html

There's a link. Go read. It's not hearsay, it's fact. Note the fact the article came from the Associated Press.

Also while I am a steroid supporter

I think the more proper term is "drug enabler".

I dont think I said anything in my post that was disrespectful to people who belive diffrent.

And yet, your post was full of ridiculousness, so I had to do it to you.

I did say that people throwing around opinions on the subject as facts pisses me off like you did but even with that I didnt disrespect them where as your counter post is obviouslly an attempt to disrespect me.

I'm not disrespecting you at all, just your incredibly close minded and ignorant beliefs on steroids.

Lets address your views of Shawn Merriman. Well I seen later in my post where I said Cena was on roids and you replied for me to prove it. Well how can you prove that Merriman wouldnt have been just as good without them?

Wait...you are a physical trainer, and you don't understand how steroids improve a player?

How about being able to train longer? Which builds up greater strength, and allows for better development of athleticism, including the training of your quick twitch muscle fibers? How about for pain recovery? When the opposing offensive lineman have 12 games of grueling battle making their body ache, and the steroids have allowed you quicker muscle recovery time, would you not consider that an advantage?

The point of this post was steroids dont turn you into a superstar athlete.

They don't? Then how come Brady Anderson went from a 15 HR a year guy to a 50 HR guy? How come David Ortiz went from one of the most feared hitters in the game, to a .220 hitter with 25 HR around the time baseball had strict drug testing?


Would Barry Bonds have always been great? Sure. Would he have hit 700 HRs? Not likely. Trying to say that steroids don't improve athletic performance is simply asinine, and the proof is in the fact that so many athletes have taken them.

If you dont already have the talent then all the roids in the world will not get you their. Obviously this was way over your head though.

No, it wasn't over my head, but what seems to be over YOUR head is that steroids are CLEARLY taken for an athletic edge, and turn a Minnesota castoff into one of the most feared hitters in the game...and then back into a .220 hitter.

Steroids aren't going to allow me to play in the NBA, but it sure as hell makes an athletic difference. But, that point seems to be going over your head.

On steroids being cheating because they heal you and this possibly being Hardys use for them. Hmm Aspirin has pretty amazing healing abilities which is why they relive pain. If I have a headache before a game or a match and pop an Aspirin did I just cheat?

I never said a damn thing about any Hardys, so I don't know what you're talking about there.

But, again, you seem to be completely oblivious to this VERY major concept. Aspirin = Legal...Steroids = Illegal


I really don't know how to explain it any better than that.

My proof Cena takes roids I have none.

Exactly. And he has spoken out MANY times claiming his innocence.

Um but his name was on the famed Doctor list wasnt it.

What famed Doctor list? I'm about as big of a fan of Cena as anyone, and I have NEVER heard of his name being on ANY list for steroids. If you're talking about the list that Sports Illustrated uncovered, then no, he was not.

Thats about as much proof as you have against Merriman.

That is if we just ignore the steroid test he failed.

If you no exactly what Merriman was taking that he was suspended for please tell me I would like to no.

Nandrolone

http://blogcritics.org/sports/article/shawne-merriman-doesnt-belong-in-the/

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1S1-2101154652108691.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/chargers/2007-01-11-merriman-cover_x.htm

It's very clearly there.

About a famous actor murdering his family like Benoit did.
Um O.J. Simpson, or not sure his name but their was a pretty famous show called Spencer Tracy..that guy violently murdered his wife a few years back.

OJ wasn't on steroids, to the best of my knowledge.

Your view is the goverment agenda against Vince is to get reelected. You got me there Vince is a big time celebrity who most main stream people hate. I guess that the guy who takes him down would be instantly famous. Glad you at least agreed with me on something though.

Well, I meant more that Benoit killing his family makes for a big deal, and so by Congress investigating, they look like heros. It was the same thing with baseball a few years back.

When the public cares, then Congress cares.

Whether or not Steroids is cheating is another issue altogether.

Not really. It's completely cheating. It's breaking the law to get an edge over people who abide by the law.

 

[T-Jay]

I'd like to know whether the WWE guys are tested during their extended time off or through an injury..... would certainly explain why some come back looking bigger or whatever after injury .... yeah batista is a main culprit... besides he can't wrestle, is boring on the mic and just throws temper tantrums like a baby when he doesn't get his own way..... **yawn**

 

[Cebeards]

Slyfox...your a prick, I almost wanna leave it at that and get spammed, but I'll go a little further

Guess what doctors prescribe for low hormone levels? HGH and Testosterone, the exact same drugs we are talking about. Infact a lot of guys have prescriptions, look at Kurt Angle. So whats the difference between these drugs?

Wow, a big Heart...neat. Most powerlifters, using steroids or not, have enlarged hearts. Most people with cocaine and alcohol problems have enlarged hearts, most wrestlers who over use their bodies day in and day out have enlarged hearts. Your right....can't blame any of those things.....has to be the steroids. There are wrestling fans all over the country with enlarged hearts from posting up on the couch and their computer chairs for hours at a time double fisting a bucket of KFC. Obesity is more dangerous that steroids....I'm open for discussion on that or any of these points, just let me know.

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but people need excuses....for everything. People don't wanna believe that they and everyone else have the capacity to do terrible things. Sorry, it's a fact of life. Everyone has it in them to do unspeakable things. I would be a lot more iffy about the pain killers in Benoit's system then I would be about Steroids. I don't need an excuse for this shit. It's like a mass-murderer needs a fucking voice in his head, and sub way muggers need to be on Meth. Don't glorify Benoit outside of his Wrestling life, he obviousl wasnt that great of a guy...I'm open to discuss that one too.

And I can't believe I didn't think about how all of this is affecting my health insurance premiums....gee golly gosh.....you fucking tool, what is wrong with you? People that use steroids want to heal faster from injuries, not use up rehab time. There is no medical proof that steroids, when used properly, cause any long term health problems. That is a bold statement I know, but I'm open for discussion on that too. You can talk as much shit as you want about athlete's abusing steroids, but even If steroids are abused, they are nowhere near as dangerous as pain killers. Abusing pain killers will kill you and destroy your body. Abusing steroids will give you acne, hair growth, raise cholesterol and possible make you sterile and possible give you breast growth...way worse than death...thank god you opened my eyes on that one....

Sorry to the initial poster, But when someone makes misguided uneducated statements in an effort to try and put someone else down a notch and then ends with a statement like "It's a shame you have such misguided views on it"....he needs to be reminded that not everyone in this forum believes everything they see on TV, some people really read up on a few things and do a bit of research.

So, to you Slyfox, I agree that steroids are illegal; that's all i'm gonna agree with. Go enjoy your Fox News ********.

And to the poster, I agree. I remember when 260 was the normal bodyweight, now 260 is the bigger guys. Razor Ramon was quoted at almost 300 lbs, Sting 265, Shawn Micheals even had a good amount of bulk...does he even weigh 200lbs anymore? Agreed, wrestlers have gotten smaller...Why? is it because of the steroids? Maybe, could be. Or maybe guys are starting to get the idea that they can still entertain without putting all that weight on their joints. Either way, works for me.

 

[Slyfox696]

Slyfox...your a prick, I almost wanna leave it at that and get spammed, but I'll go a little further

Good, because I hate having to infract for spam. Although, I guess I could for flaming...

Guess what doctors prescribe for low hormone levels? HGH and Testosterone, the exact same drugs we are talking about. Infact a lot of guys have prescriptions, look at Kurt Angle. So whats the difference between these drugs?

What's your point? How does that change the fact that Benoit had MONTHS worth of testosterone in his house, more than ANY honest doctor would ever prescribe to an individual for any reason?

Wow, a big Heart...neat.

Actually, it's quite sad that people die and leave their families without a primary provider, simply because they were chasing fame and glory.

Most powerlifters, using steroids or not, have enlarged hearts. Most people with cocaine and alcohol problems have enlarged hearts, most wrestlers who over use their bodies day in and day out have enlarged hearts. Your right....can't blame any of those things.....has to be the steroids.

You ARE aware the Eddie Guerrero and his wife have already admitted his steroid use, correct? Not to mention all the other drugs he was on.


I still fail to see what your point is.

There are wrestling fans all over the country with enlarged hearts from posting up on the couch and their computer chairs for hours at a time double fisting a bucket of KFC. Obesity is more dangerous that steroids....I'm open for discussion on that or any of these points, just let me know.

Who said it wasn't? Just like murder is worse than stealing...doesn't mean we should allow either murder or stealing.

Again, do you have a point?

I'm not sure if you have noticed, but people need excuses....for everything.

You mean like your very post here, which is trying to blame everything else in life for why these people died, instead of a MUCH more likely contributing factor which is the use of steroids?

People don't wanna believe that they and everyone else have the capacity to do terrible things. Sorry, it's a fact of life. Everyone has it in them to do unspeakable things.

And your point is....?

I would be a lot more iffy about the pain killers in Benoit's system then I would be about Steroids. I don't need an excuse for this shit. It's like a mass-murderer needs a fucking voice in his head, and sub way muggers need to be on Meth. Don't glorify Benoit outside of his Wrestling life, he obviousl wasnt that great of a guy...I'm open to discuss that one too.

Who said he was a great guy outside his wrestling life? Are you sure you're not confusing me with another poster?

And I can't believe I didn't think about how all of this is affecting my health insurance premiums....gee golly gosh.....you fucking tool, what is wrong with you?

Well, I have an itching infraction finger for flaming, but aside from that, nothing at all.

People that use steroids want to heal faster from injuries, not use up rehab time. There is no medical proof that steroids, when used properly, cause any long term health problems.

But there is PLENTY of proof that steroids, when used improperly, DO cause long term health problems.

So, again, what is your point?

You can talk as much shit as you want about athlete's abusing steroids, but even If steroids are abused, they are nowhere near as dangerous as pain killers. Abusing pain killers will kill you and destroy your body.

Who here was endorsing the abuse of pain killers? Certainly wasn't me. What's your point?

Abusing steroids will give you acne, hair growth, raise cholesterol and possible make you sterile and possible give you breast growth...way worse than death...thank god you opened my eyes on that one....

You forgot it also causes depression, cardiovascular, liver and kidney disease, mental instability and psychosis, manic tendencies, suicidal thoughts, and violent outbursts towards others.

Like, when Chris Benoit killed his family and himself.

Sorry to the initial poster, But when someone makes misguided uneducated statements in an effort to try and put someone else down a notch and then ends with a statement like "It's a shame you have such misguided views on it"....he needs to be reminded that not everyone in this forum believes everything they see on TV, some people really read up on a few things and do a bit of research.

Exactly. Some people (read: you) should read up and do a bit of research. I've done mine, had to, many times, in order to pass college courses. You should try it.

So, to you Slyfox, I agree that steroids are illegal; that's all i'm gonna agree with.

So, if you agree steroids are illegal, and when you do your research and find out the negative effects of steroids, I have to ask...

Seriously, what is the point of your post here?

Go enjoy your Fox News ********.

Fox News? What the fuck does Fox News have to do with anabolic steroids? Did you only bring that up because you are too stupid to come up with an actual insult which might actually apply to me? Nevermind the fact that I've long criticized Fox News, and really most news stations in general, the fact of the matter is you are too unintelligent and unoriginal to come up with your own material, so you just regurgitate the same stupid nonsense that ignorants like you wish to express everytime someone kicks your ass in a debate. What's next, are you going to call me Hitler? Because that's about the only thing you have left.

And to the poster, I agree. I remember when 260 was the normal bodyweight, now 260 is the bigger guys. Razor Ramon was quoted at almost 300 lbs, Sting 265, Shawn Micheals even had a good amount of bulk...does he even weigh 200lbs anymore? Agreed, wrestlers have gotten smaller...Why? is it because of the steroids? Maybe, could be. Or maybe guys are starting to get the idea that they can still entertain without putting all that weight on their joints. Either way, works for me.

It's probably because A) wrestling promotions have steroid testing, and B) these guys don't want to die like all of their friends have been in the last decade.

But no, I'm sure you're right. Steroids have nothing to do with it.