Bischoffs comments about Nexus

[Zeven_Zion]

Typical biased quote from the biggest TNA mark on the forum. TNA sucks right now. That much is clear. But I gave my opinion on that already so I'll cover what you said here.

Wade Barrett and the generic bunch. Yeah, maybe...but it's made Wade Barrett a legit main event name in a very short time frame. When's the last time Bischoff did that? No one can tell without going back to his WCW days. That's why he should keep his mouth shut.

So that's the argument of why Nexus is not boring: Wade Barrett is using them to control the biggest name in wrestling today, John Cena (and no, i'm not a Cena mark at all. But he is the biggest name). And the only reason Barrett is able to control Cena is because he has that group of generic guys behind him to help him do that.

But of course, you will most certainly have some response you think is witty as to why I'm wrong and you're right, because God forbid you ever admit that WWE is doing something better than TNA.

He won't, I will.

How in the BLUE hell is that entertaining? Cena is under the control of Wade Barret and his cronies. YAAAY! Oh my god my adrenaline is going through the roof! How is that exciting? What exactly is the thrill in this? Just because Nexus is doing SOMETHING doesn't mean it's good/entertaining. It's not, it's HBK/JBL all over again, without the great promos and certainly not as emotional.

WWE is doing MANY things better than TNA, but surprisingly enough none of them are on TV. Like IDR said, we gave you solid arguments proving that Immortal is better than Nexus in EVERY department. Build up, execution, the people in it. I'm fine with people liking The Nexus. No wait, LOVING it. But the way I see it, none of you gave LOGICAL reasons why Nexus is that much better than Immortal. All I heard was "because they're rookies". Well if THAT'S the case, then Robbie E. winning the X-Division title is fucking genius because he's also a "rookie".

If you don't provide a reason, if you just say "TNA sucks, WWE is better", and fill your posts with "!!!??!11!" and "" -- then you just prove that you're just fan boys in denial. Me? I'm a fan boy. I'm a fucking mark. But I know what I'm marking about, and I know what I hate. Unlike people who bash TNA without watching the product, I know what I'm shitting on. I've seen good wrestling, I've seen good booking, I've watched the WWE for 20 years and I know what's good TV and what's bad TV. Currently, WWE is producing bad TV, and TNA isn't doing miracles, but it's certainly much, much better than the morning cartoon World Wrestling Entertainment has become. Nexus and Immortal are just one example, the list goes on.

So please, someone, give me solid proof and try to convince me why exactly Immortal is worse than The Nexus, since that seems to be the main issue here. "Bischoff's group isn't better so he shouldn't talk". Okay, shoot. Why.

 

[LSN80]

The point of any stable is to help get theleader over. Exactly what is the point of the Immortals? It was made simply for shock value and to get people to buy Bound for Glory

The point of a good stable is to elevate all involved. The good ones anyway. Look at Evolution- it helped push both Randy Orton and Batista into the main event, helped HHH collect titles, and kept Ric Flair relevant as his career wound down. That's the purpose of a stable. Benefit all involved. No nexus member has shown they can win a clean one on one match, and most of them are made to look like tools in the process.

Wade Barrett is extremely over. WWE-bashers have bitched for years that the Main Event scene has been the same for years now it changes and you still bitch. Nexus is fresh and very entertaining. What's entertaining about it? The fact that you never know what is going to happen. One of the WWE's big 4 PPV's i coming up and Wade Barrett is headlining with Randy Orton and nobody knows wha is going to happen in the outcome. Can we say the same about Hardy vs Morgan? Nope. It's completely unpredictable and that's what makes it great.

Nexus WAS fresh and entertaining. Now its become about Wade Barrett and his man-slaves. The night they invaded Raw was the first time I was genuinely surprised and had nothing toi say after they decimated Punk and Cena, along with everyone ring-side. Well done. However, any "elevation" of the other members was killed when Otunga and Cena won the tag titles, and Otunga had to lay down for Slater and Gabriel THE NEXT NIGHT. I think the Survivor Series main event is pretty predictable as well,as we all know Cena isn't going to lose his job. And if he did, wouldn't that fall into the "shock and awe" category you described Immortal with? As for Hardy and Morgan, it elevated Morgan to the main event of a PPV. He had just been kicked out of "Fourtune and Immortal." He was elevated pretty quick. Is Barrett over more? Of course he is. Because he's been at the forefront of EVERY Raw for 6 months now.

And to Zeven Zion--Nexus is better than the Immortals because THEY ARE ROOKIES. That's what makes it so great. Any company could take their top 10 guys (minus Angle and Anderson) and make it a "take-over" angle. Nexus is 7 rookies who now control the Number 1 wrestling show in the world. Don't believe it? The biggest face in wrestling is handcuffed by them hesaid it himself on Moday that they have taken over and they run the show.

I can't speak for Zevon, and I disagree with most of his post, but it's really too early to judge which stable is better. Nexus has been here six months, Immortal for less then 1. Awfully tough to judge a stable at the beginning. I would agree, that right now, Nexus is the better stable. But it has nothing to do with them being rookies, its the way they've executed the storyline. Until recently, they've done a damn good job.

It's clear the only fan-boys here are you two because it's evident that you only like your product and everything else sucks too bad only 1.1 million people agree with you every Thursday.

Im a fan of both products, and am critical of both. Id check your facts here man- viewership is higher then that, 1.1 is their Nielson rating. Huge difference. Im more intrigued by the Nexus storyline.....right now. But that could change, based on how they handle the Immortal one. I dont have much faith in Bischoff and co., but I hope they prove me wrong. Time will tell.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

IDR: I will not disagree with you what-so-ever. You know what the hell your talking about. You bring a legit arguement each & every time.

This is about the guy that mis-quoted me multiple times. & also proclaimed Frankie Kazarian to be better then any Nexus member. You coulda said that about ANYONE else in Immortal... & we coulda debated- BUT Kaz???!! Gimmie a break! Heath Slater is more entertaining the fuckin Kaz!! & I fuckin HATE that redhead with a passion!! Kaz is a very poor-mans Lance Storm

Kaz is the single most replaceable part in all of TNA as far as I'm concerned. Good for what he does — work — but otherwise he's got fuckall to work with.

Problem with him, IMO, is that he's working out of his element. He's not that great of a mid-card guy. He was an X Division guy — the type of guy who worked well in most X-style matches, and frankly that's really where he should have stayed.

He has the "look", but his mannerisms and his personality just don't work for the position they're trying to put him in. He's too kitschy for it.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

So if you count Bryan that makes 2 as opposed to Bischoffs one (Goldberg, if he MADE any other stars just say their names because Goldberg is the only one I can truly say was made in WCW during the Bischoff era).

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars in his time, he just never capitalised on a single one of them. A lot of WCW talent was incredibly over, just never pushed at all. For example:

What about Chris Jericho? Wasn't he like Bischoff's pet project, who was allowed to get away with all the crazy stuff he did because of this. Depends what you really mean by "made" I guess, Jericho obviously put in a lot of work to his character but he was allowed to flourish under Bischoff.

"The Crow" version of Sting came in under Bischoff's reign, which he's basically kept but modified ever since it's debut.

Benoit got over in WCW and wasn't pushed properly, so left for greener grass in the WWE, The Giant was another case of this.

You could call DDP home grown talent with regards to Bischoff too. He may not mean much in the scheme of things, but he was huge back in 1997 and just booked into oblivion like a lot of guys who weren't former WWF employees.

Rey Misterio flourished under Bischoff, he was another that didn't get past the glass ceiling set up by Hogan and friends.

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars, he just never pushed them into megastardom.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars in his time, he just never capitalised on a single one of them. A lot of WCW talent was incredibly over, just never pushed at all. For example:

What about Chris Jericho? Wasn't he like Bischoff's pet project, who was allowed to get away with all the crazy stuff he did because of this. Depends what you really mean by "made" I guess, Jericho obviously put in a lot of work to his character but he was allowed to flourish under Bischoff.

"The Crow" version of Sting came in under Bischoff's reign, which he's basically kept but modified ever since it's debut.

Benoit got over in WCW and wasn't pushed properly, so left for greener grass in the WWE, The Giant was another case of this.

You could call DDP home grown talent with regards to Bischoff too. He may not mean much in the scheme of things, but he was huge back in 1997 and just booked into oblivion like a lot of guys who weren't former WWF employees.

Rey Misterio flourished under Bischoff, he was another that didn't get past the glass ceiling set up by Hogan and friends.

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars, he just never pushed them into megastardom.

I agree. You could say that back in the day, WCW was the WWE and WWE was the TNA. WCW made them stars, WWE took them and capitalized on it. It's kind of ironic that the tides have turned now.

 

[Marky-Marc]

He won't, I will.

How in the BLUE hell is that entertaining? Cena is under the control of Wade Barret and his cronies. YAAAY! Oh my god my adrenaline is going through the roof! How is that exciting? What exactly is the thrill in this? Just because Nexus is doing SOMETHING doesn't mean it's good/entertaining. It's not, it's HBK/JBL all over again, without the great promos and certainly not as emotional.

WWE is doing MANY things better than TNA, but surprisingly enough none of them are on TV. Like IDR said, we gave you solid arguments proving that Immortal is better than Nexus in EVERY department. Build up, execution, the people in it. I'm fine with people liking The Nexus. No wait, LOVING it. But the way I see it, none of you gave LOGICAL reasons why Nexus is that much better than Immortal. All I heard was "because they're rookies". Well if THAT'S the case, then Robbie E. winning the X-Division title is fucking genius because he's also a "rookie".

If you don't provide a reason, if you just say "TNA sucks, WWE is better", and fill your posts with "!!!??!11!" and "" -- then you just prove that you're just fan boys in denial. Me? I'm a fan boy. I'm a fucking mark. But I know what I'm marking about, and I know what I hate. Unlike people who bash TNA without watching the product, I know what I'm shitting on. I've seen good wrestling, I've seen good booking, I've watched the WWE for 20 years and I know what's good TV and what's bad TV. Currently, WWE is producing bad TV, and TNA isn't doing miracles, but it's certainly much, much better than the morning cartoon World Wrestling Entertainment has become. Nexus and Immortal are just one example, the list goes on.

So please, someone, give me solid proof and try to convince me why exactly Immortal is worse than The Nexus, since that seems to be the main issue here. "Bischoff's group isn't better so he shouldn't talk". Okay, shoot. Why.

The build up for Nexus was better. Came from out of nowhere. They should not have lost at Summerslam but they really have not lost momentum.

The reason why they are there we really do not know yet, with the whole "common purpose thing. Immortal is present because they, um, want to, um, take over TNA? Okay, mission accomplished. Now they will just continue to be in control until anybody can stop them? That last part makes sense, who would ever give up that kind of power until they are stopped. Same as the Nexus.

Nexus is more interesting because in a kayfabe manner, it is unbelievable how seven rookies can take over RAW. As I said earlier, taking 10 of your top 12 guys and sticking them in a huge circus is not something that is entertaining to the majority of people. I never said it sucks, I think it is inferior to the storyline surrounding the Nexus. Where exactly is the adrenaline pumping in your veins for Immortal?

Jarrett v Angle?--Maybe, but certainly not because of Jarrett
Abyss v Pope?--No, a hardcore match is a hardcore match
Hardy v Anderson?--No because we know Hardy isn't (or IMO shouldn't) lose any time soon

Nexus is leading up to a bigger confrontation between Barrett and Cena, bigger than the HIAC match. Plus, Immortal already has the championships within the stable, Barrett is still pursuing the WWE Title, it's always exciting to reach the climax of the stable's purpose. Unfortunately for Immortal, their climax, and beginning, came on the same night.

 

[ChrisNutter]

I'm going to disagree with this statement right here. The main objective of Nexus was to get Barrett over since he won the first season of NXT. I don't believe it would have been the same intention if any one of the others won it. So far, this storyline has gotten Barrett over and only him over. Slater, Gabriel, Otunga, McGillicutty, and Harris aren't over. Gabriel and Slater are champs in a dying division, and the rest are just there. Now maybe if one of the others gets into a program with Bryan, then you have something. For now, Nexus is only getting Wade over. The rest are just there for the ride.

Justin Gabriel with his 450 splash is over with the crowd as a heel and actually probably will go on to be a nice upper-midcard main event person for the WWE they are very high on him and so is the Universe. As for the others, on his own I think McGillicutty could do well or even as a tag team with Harris but as for Slater, nope sorry, your future endeavor papers are coming and Otunga, great physique and can work but charisma is very small so he needs to work on that to stick around but back to my main point Gabriel definitely can be a great worker in the future so Nexus did help him also.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

He won't, I will.

How in the BLUE hell is that entertaining? Cena is under the control of Wade Barret and his cronies. YAAAY! Oh my god my adrenaline is going through the roof! How is that exciting? What exactly is the thrill in this? Just because Nexus is doing SOMETHING doesn't mean it's good/entertaining. It's not, it's HBK/JBL all over again, without the great promos and certainly not as emotional.

WWE is doing MANY things better than TNA, but surprisingly enough none of them are on TV. Like IDR said, we gave you solid arguments proving that Immortal is better than Nexus in EVERY department. Build up, execution, the people in it. I'm fine with people liking The Nexus. No wait, LOVING it. But the way I see it, none of you gave LOGICAL reasons why Nexus is that much better than Immortal. All I heard was "because they're rookies". Well if THAT'S the case, then Robbie E. winning the X-Division title is fucking genius because he's also a "rookie".

If you don't provide a reason, if you just say "TNA sucks, WWE is better", and fill your posts with "!!!??!11!" and "" -- then you just prove that you're just fan boys in denial. Me? I'm a fan boy. I'm a fucking mark. But I know what I'm marking about, and I know what I hate. Unlike people who bash TNA without watching the product, I know what I'm shitting on. I've seen good wrestling, I've seen good booking, I've watched the WWE for 20 years and I know what's good TV and what's bad TV. Currently, WWE is producing bad TV, and TNA isn't doing miracles, but it's certainly much, much better than the morning cartoon World Wrestling Entertainment has become. Nexus and Immortal are just one example, the list goes on.

So please, someone, give me solid proof and try to convince me why exactly Immortal is worse than The Nexus, since that seems to be the main issue here. "Bischoff's group isn't better so he shouldn't talk". Okay, shoot. Why.

At the end of the day it all matters which group is more OVER in general, and its pretty much an open and shut case that the win goes to Nexus (by far I may add).

Also one of my biggest issues with his comment was simply because he (along with Hogan) was brought into TNA to try and help the company reach new heights, TNA is exactly where it was 5 years ago, and quite frankly they did it spending alot less money then they are now. Also, TNA programming was BETTER 5 years ago than it is today (IMO anyways).

Now I will tell you WHY Nexus is better than the immortals.

1) Nexus is being used to BUILD TALENT plain and simple. Whether you think Nexus is boring or not the end result will do a lot more for the WWE in the long run in the way of establishing new talent. The Immortals aren't doing that, in fact all the Immortals are doing is taking precious air time from wrestlers who DESERVE IT. Say whatever about guys like Williams and AJ, but they are on the backburner of the Immortals and most don't even notice they are even in the group. This reason alone makes it better because at the end of the day, the Immortals storyline will be a waste whereas the WWE will have some more bodies to play with when its all said and done (they've already made a new main eventer in wade barrett).

2) Nexus is similar but different from the nWo. Although it has many of the same qualities, there is still enough fresh elements to keep it interesting. Immortals on the other hand just rehash old shit and don't DARE to try anything new, no one wants to see the same old shit over and over.

3) The Immortals is just a bunch of guys who most fans wish weren't even involved in wrestling anymore. Hogan may be the greatest but these days he couldn't draw flies in a shit factory. Jarrett was NEVER a draw and the only reason he main evented ANYTHING is because a) Russo had a giant boner for him and b) he owned the company so it was his decision if he wanted to be champ and no one elses. I'll leave Flair out because he's still good on the mic and is a good mouth piece for the Immortals and lastly, Jeff Hardy is nothing but a bum plain and simple and hasn't done jack shit since coming into TNA (outside of 1 giant crack rock) and the only reason he's not dancing for quarters is because the WWE MADE HIM A STAR.

4) The Nexus storyline is better and has a sensical flow to it. Not only that the storyline was built the right way (their first attack on RAW was more intriguing and interesting and created more buzz than anything the Immortals did). These guys have main evented Summerslam and have kept the story relevant and interesting to MOST wrestling fans, and not only that MOST still want to see where its all going (like the Orton vs. Barrett match at SS). Immortals make no sense and frankly, the way they are taking over the company doesn't create sympathy for dixie and TNA, it just makes them look stupid.

5) At this point in time Wade Barrett has more talent and is better than anyone the immortals has to offer. He's more entertaining in every aspect than anyone in the immortals (Kazarian better than Barrett? give me a break) and once again actually gets a reaction from the crowd, something your little immortal buddies cant do. Myself (and once again MOST wrestling fans) would much rather watch Barrett on TV than Kazarian, Hardy, Williams or even AJ.

Ratings don't lie dude and for the most part I hear alot more love for Nexus than the Immortals. It isn't because we are WWE marks its because Nexus is BETTER and more entertaining. Most people crucified the immortals 6 seconds after it happened, yeah people sound real entertained by the Immortals!

 

[MoneyMack]

Nexus is something NEW! IE: rookies coming in & running shit with no remorse! Immortal is the same old shit! Some names are different- but the "guys in charge" are the same. In order to make Immortal even close to legit- TNA had to team them up with the already established Fourtune. W/O Fourtune the Immortals would be a complete JOKE! Fourtune actually makes them a force. Its kinda like DX joining forces with The Oddities & all of a sudden the Oddities are bad ass! NO- DX was the part thats badass! Not the Oddities!! Honestly: Hardy, Abyss & Jarrett....WOW!! Add in HH & EB...holy shit man!! A group of 2.5 actual wrestlers & that brand new Hogan/Bischoff partnership! O...M...G!! I just shit in my pants a little!!

PLUS: TNAs huge build-up to the Immortal angle- only made it a bigger letdown when it happend. Cuz everyone knew for a fact HH & EB were siding back up. Only question was: Who of the 3 in the triple threat would join them. Sure- Hardy was the biggest suprise of the 3. But just cuz it was a suprise, doesnt make it good! Infact- the only reason it was such a suprise, was because everyone assumed "they wont give it to Hardy...he may be goin to jail soon" AND everyone knew that Hardy would be the shittiest of the 3 for the role. As for Nexus- NOBODY saw that coming!

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Hogan & Bischoff ruling over a company with numbers on thier side. Been there- done that! 15 years ago!! Even worse- cuz in this version, the top heel wrestler in the group sucks dick on the mic! Hall & Nash KILLED on the mic! They didnt have to have the non-wrestlers in the group talk for them in the ring, cuz the only promo they can cut is taped backstage. Also- 2 cheapshots with crutches doesnt make u the "anti-christ of pro wrestling" You should probly do more then win one match before you claim something like that

VERSUS

8 rookies/NEW names that nobody has ever heard of before, coming in and taking over the biggest show in professional wrestling history!! Sure they lost some momentum when they lost to the RAW all-star team...but I didnt think it should be possible for the rookies to beat that group of stars in the 1st place!! Now they have the biggest name in the business as thier lackey.

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God Damn!! Im sitting here arguing on behalf of Nexus & I dont even like the group as a whole! That tells me all I need to know right there!! That shows me how bad Immortal actually is. TNA put the wrong people in the wrong roles IMO. I really dont know how else to explain it

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars in his time, he just never capitalised on a single one of them. A lot of WCW talent was incredibly over, just never pushed at all. For example:

What about Chris Jericho? Wasn't he like Bischoff's pet project, who was allowed to get away with all the crazy stuff he did because of this. Depends what you really mean by "made" I guess, Jericho obviously put in a lot of work to his character but he was allowed to flourish under Bischoff.

"The Crow" version of Sting came in under Bischoff's reign, which he's basically kept but modified ever since it's debut.

Benoit got over in WCW and wasn't pushed properly, so left for greener grass in the WWE, The Giant was another case of this.

You could call DDP home grown talent with regards to Bischoff too. He may not mean much in the scheme of things, but he was huge back in 1997 and just booked into oblivion like a lot of guys who weren't former WWF employees.

Rey Misterio flourished under Bischoff, he was another that didn't get past the glass ceiling set up by Hogan and friends.

I think Bischoff made plenty of stars, he just never pushed them into megastardom.

I'll give you Sting and maybe the Giant, but everyone else pretty much made themselves, all bischoff did was hire them and put them on TV. Also the fact that he never capitalized on talents like Jericho shows the short sightedness of Bischoff, it was more important for him to keep guys like Hogan at the top instead of giving talent like Jericho more time to shine. One of the biggest reasons most feel WCW went under was because guys like Mysterio and Jericho weren't given the pushes they deserved (because they deserved alot more than they got).

 

[Marky-Marc]

Nexus is something NEW! IE: rookies coming in & running shit with no remorse! Immortal is the same old shit! Some names are different- but the "guys in charge" are the same. In order to make Immortal even close to legit- TNA had to team them up with the already established Fourtune. W/O Fourtune the Immortals would be a complete JOKE! Fourtune actually makes them a force. Its kinda like DX joining forces with The Oddities & all of a sudden the Oddities are bad ass! NO- DX was the part thats badass! Not the Oddities!! Honestly: Hardy, Abyss & Jarrett....WOW!! Add in HH & EB...holy shit man!! A group of 2.5 actual wrestlers & that brand new Hogan/Bischoff partnership! O...M...G!! I just shit in my pants a little!!

PLUS: TNAs huge build-up to the Immortal angle- only made it a bigger letdown when it happend. Cuz everyone knew for a fact HH & EB were siding back up. Only question was: Who of the 3 in the triple threat would join them. Sure- Hardy was the biggest suprise of the 3. But just cuz it was a suprise, doesnt make it good! Infact- the only reason it was such a suprise, was because everyone assumed "they wont give it to Hardy...he may be goin to jail soon" AND everyone knew that Hardy would be the shittiest of the 3 for the role. As for Nexus- NOBODY saw that coming!

Hogan & Bischoff ruling over a company with numbers on thier side. Been there- done that! 15 years ago!! Even worse- cuz in this version, the top heel wrestler in the group sucks dick on the mic! Hall & Nash KILLED on the mic! They didnt have to have the non-wrestlers in the group talk for them in the ring, cuz the only promo they can cut is taped backstage. Also- 2 cheapshots with crutches doesnt make u the "anti-christ of pro wrestling" You should probly do more then win one match before you claim something like that

VERSUS

8 rookies/NEW names that nobody has ever heard of before, coming in and taking over the biggest show in professional wrestling history!! Sure they lost some momentum when they lost to the RAW all-star team...but I didnt think it should be possible for the rookies to beat that group of stars in the 1st place!! Now they have the biggest name in the business as thier lackey.

God Damn!! Im sitting here arguing on behalf of Nexus & I dont even like the group as a whole! That tells me all I need to know right there!! That shows me how bad Immortal actually is. TNA put the wrong people in the wrong roles IMO. I really dont know how else to explain it

I agree with a lot of this. It is too early to tell if Hardy's heel tun will be successful or not, but right now it's lame. Not to mention he took out one of your biggest stars with one stupid chairshot (luckily they don't have thatproblem on the "Saturday Morning Cartoon"). Jeff is not a heel though, he's a face. He's a high-flyer whom the crowd loves to cheer for and he can't talk. Turning him for shock-value is not alway a good thing. 8 Rookies appearing frm the crowd after a lackluster elimination show, now that's good.

 

[Kidd]

I'm gonna say that the one thing that WWE is getting right with Nexus is that they are at least beginning to get some gold around the waists of its members to at least make them appear as legit talents. Plus I think Barrett will beat Orton and bring more legitimacy to the group.

That's the one thing that makes me critical of Immortal.

It's a shame that they seem to be keeping an elite tag team like Beer Money out of the ring and out of tag title contention.

They should be competing for and winning the titles and bringing more gold to Immortal.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

At the end of the day it all matters which group is more OVER in general, and its pretty much an open and shut case that the win goes to Nexus (by far I may add).

Well OF COURSE they're more over. It's the WWE. Santino is more over than Immortal. WWE has been around for YEARS. TNA has been around for 8. We're talking quality here, logical booking, good talent. Not how many 10 years olds react to a guys dressed like bees.

1) Nexus is being used to BUILD TALENT plain and simple.

I agree. If ANYTHING, Nexus could create some new faces, despite the fact that 98% of Nexus has no talent, but that doesn't stop WWE to push people down our throats. Still, as long as these guys are not burried after Nexus splits, I'm willing to call Nexus a success.

However, Immortal is ALSO used to build stars, or at least enhance them. Any stable that doesn't consist of Main Eventers is there to build stars, even if that's not the original reason why it came about.

2) Nexus is similar but different from the nWo. Although it has many of the same qualities, there is still enough fresh elements to keep it interesting. Immortals on the other hand just rehash old shit and don't DARE to try anything new, no one wants to see the same old shit over and over.

Fresh elements - yes. The arm band, the rookies. That's fresh.

However, to say that Immortals didn't try anything new is quite foolish. It's not much, but they did something WWE didn't have the balls to do and they allowed Jeff Hardy to turn heel and lead an entire faction of evil people. Still, the concept is pretty old, I agree, but it's working, and in the end that's what matters.

3) The Immortals is just a bunch of guys who most fans wish weren't even involved in wrestling anymore.

Beer Money, AJ Styles, Kazarian, Doug Williams, Jeff Hardy. Noone wants to see those guys? Or you mean Flair, Hogan and Bischoff. I don't wanna see Hogan but I deffinitely enjoy Flair and Bischoff. So Immortal isn't just a bunch of guys who most fans wish weren't involved in wrestling. Only three guys fall into that category, so your argument is invalid.

4) The Nexus storyline is better and has a sensical flow to it. Not only that the storyline was built the right way (their first attack on RAW was more intriguing and interesting and created more buzz than anything the Immortals did). These guys have main evented Summerslam and have kept the story relevant and interesting to MOST wrestling fans, and not only that MOST still want to see where its all going (like the Orton vs. Barrett match at SS). Immortals make no sense and frankly, the way they are taking over the company doesn't create sympathy for dixie and TNA, it just makes them look stupid.

Sure, Nexus was built in a fine way. Destroyed their credibility at Summerslam by a team which consists of guys like The Great Khali and now trying to keep their head above water, or else they'll drown. Good job. Oh, and people are not interested in where it's going, they have no fucking choice but to watch that crap week in and week out. That's what WWE does. Shove it down your throat as much as possible until you have no chance but to accept it. The problem is, Nexus was shoved down our throats too quickly, before we could taste it. Doesn't taste good.

But Immortal makes no sense? You don't watch iMPACT do you? If you do and you don't get it then you're either (a) fucking stupid or (b) fucking ignorant. Choose.

5) At this point in time Wade Barrett has more talent and is better than anyone the immortals has to offer. He's more entertaining in every aspect than anyone in the immortals (Kazarian better than Barrett? give me a break) and once again actually gets a reaction from the crowd, something your little immortal buddies cant do. Myself (and once again MOST wrestling fans) would much rather watch Barrett on TV than Kazarian, Hardy, Williams or even AJ.

Absolute bullshit for reasons too obvious to mention. I don't even know why I'm discussing this with you. Me saying that Kaz is good was kinda stupid but dude you're blind.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

I'll give you Sting and maybe the Giant, but everyone else pretty much made themselves, all bischoff did was hire them and put them on TV. Also the fact that he never capitalized on talents like Jericho shows the short sightedness of Bischoff, it was more important for him to keep guys like Hogan at the top instead of giving talent like Jericho more time to shine. One of the biggest reasons most feel WCW went under was because guys like Mysterio and Jericho weren't given the pushes they deserved (because they deserved alot more than they got).

He still gave them a job and national exposure though, he must have seen something in them. "What ifs" are a pretty useless way of analysing the past, but there is no way of knowing whether any of the talent Bischoff acquired during his years on top in WCW would have ever meant anything if he hadn't of put them on TV. He got the beginning right, he just never followed through like he should have done.
I won't deny that WCW could have been bigger if these stars had been pushed properly, but the fact remains that Bischoff still brought them in and gave them time on Nitro, Thunder etc etc, I can't defend his lack of follow through with them and, as you say, his short sightedness, but I think he did contribute more to the wrestling world than simply Goldberg and the nWo.

Back in old school wrestling gimmicks were more in the hands of the actual wrestlers, rather than the front office. Promoters gave them a chance and it fell on the individual to get themselves over. Bischoff did this with a lot of guys, but as we know all too well once they did get themselves over he did nothing to elevate them. I would say he made quite a few stars, he just criminally misused a lot of talent as well.

 

[rondiesel2005]

you know some thing Eric Bischoff needs to get his head out of his ass because since he been in TNA, what has he done in TNA that he did differently in WCW?? because so far he done nothing recreate a group that is similar because the guys like hogan, and Jarrett were former members of the NWO. Bischoff better be worrying about TNA because i mean seriously the ratings are the same or up and down, and he letting a guy like Russo create the storylines that didn't make sense for the fans to follow. Nexus is something different, new faces different storylines. TNA done nothing be create the same storylines over and over. Its so obvious they are running out of storys for TNA.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I agree. If ANYTHING, Nexus could create some new faces, despite the fact that 98% of Nexus has no talent, but that doesn't stop WWE to push people down our throats. Still, as long as these guys are not burried after Nexus splits, I'm willing to call Nexus a success.

However, Immortal is ALSO used to build stars, or at least enhance them. Any stable that doesn't consist of Main Eventers is there to build stars, even if that's not the original reason why it came about.
[/QUOTE]

Who has the Immortals built? Seriously no one in the immortals is any more over than they were before BFG and many of them (like williams) has actually been knocked down a few pegs.

Fresh elements - yes. The arm band, the rookies. That's fresh.

However, to say that Immortals didn't try anything new is quite foolish. It's not much, but they did something WWE didn't have the balls to do and they allowed Jeff Hardy to turn heel and lead an entire faction of evil people. Still, the concept is pretty old, I agree, but it's working, and in the end that's what matters.

I agree as I said in past posts the whole success of the immortals angle is based on if hardy becomes a good heel, but even thats not very original. In TNA's eyes they tried to do the same thing as Bash at the Beach '96, only with Hardy, so even though Hardy being heel is new, its still been done before. Lastly, if the immortals are working is really a matter of opinion. You say its working, I say its not.

Beer Money, AJ Styles, Kazarian, Doug Williams, Jeff Hardy. Noone wants to see those guys? Or you mean Flair, Hogan and Bischoff. I don't wanna see Hogan but I deffinitely enjoy Flair and Bischoff. So Immortal isn't just a bunch of guys who most fans wish weren't involved in wrestling. Only three guys fall into that category, so your argument is invalid.

No, no one wants to see Jeff Hardy, HE SUCKS. The other guys though, yeah people do want to see them, but they are on the backburner where you are mostly seeing guys like Jarrett and Hogan. the nWo had alot of young talent too, but it doesn't change the fact that they went unnoticed in the group. All the guys you just mentioned (outside of Hardy) are all unfortunately going to fade into the background while guys like Hogan and Jarrett are taking the forefront.

Sure, Nexus was built in a fine way. Destroyed their credibility at Summerslam by a team which consists of guys like The Great Khali and now trying to keep their head above water, or else they'll drown. Good job. Oh, and people are not interested in where it's going, they have no fucking choice but to watch that crap week in and week out. That's what WWE does. Shove it down your throat as much as possible until you have no chance but to accept it. The problem is, Nexus was shoved down our throats too quickly, before we could taste it. Doesn't taste good.

Apparently you didn't see Summerslam because KHALI WASN'T IN THE FUCKING MATCH GENIUS! Secondly, the match wasn't the greatest, but they've done just fine since then. I'll be the first to admit they dropped the ball a bit at summerslam with Nexus, but was ONE fumble and they've scored more than enough points to make up for that fumble. And yes we do have a choice, if its so bad you can just turn off the TV (and watch iMPACT) its that simple. If you don't have cable there's always justin.tv so don't say they don't have a choice because they DO.

But Immortal makes no sense? You don't watch iMPACT do you? If you do and you don't get it then you're either (a) fucking stupid or (b) fucking ignorant. Choose.

No they don't especially the with them forming up with Fortune (Flair would never get together with Hogan in a million years genius, now all of a sudden they're bonding and good friends, yeah that makes sense). Or how about the fact Dixie basically signed TNA over to the immortals because she was too stupid to read a contract. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? No, none of that makes sense.

PS. I give iMPACT a shot plenty, and I've seen how the group came together and with fortune the next impact so I have plenty of knowledge about the immortals douchebag. I've tried to watch a full episode since then, but the show sucks so hard that I can't digest 5 minutes of TNA programming without vomiting, but I still give it a chance because I truly want them to succeed.

Absolute bullshit for reasons too obvious to mention. I don't even know why I'm discussing this with you. Me saying that Kaz is good was kinda stupid but dude you're blind.

Barrett's overall stronger than anyone in the Immortals and thats a FACT. He can wrestle, he can talk, he gets a hell of a reaction (which has NOTHING to do with what show your on, plenty of people get no reaction in WWE programming) every week. AJ might wrestle better, but he sucks on the mic and has a fraction of the charisma Barrett has, there's alot more to wrestling than the in ring part of it and it all comes together. Some might be better at certain things than Barrett but overall Barrett buries them all.

 

[shattered dreams]

Not sure if boring is the best word but I would assume it is stale by now. If I had to critique nexus I would say what was the gain? Did not see a ratings increase anywhere, the shirts were selling worse than great khali so they did this odd cena interlude (awful design so I can only blame them so much) and no one got more over. To me it was an interesting idea at points but a waste of the spot. People have been waiting for years for someone to get the best of cena and WWE found a way to do it while building nothing. The last person to do it, Edge arguably, got a big boost from it. Instead WWE ran a long storyline where they built some decent undercard guys in a main even spot. Barrett was already ready for his position and would have actually got more over IMO on his own. He already had a title shot and momentum coming out of the show. Give any one person the spot for all the elements of this story and there may have been a new breakthrough star. Instead we just have the same logjam of people waiting to break through that have been there for a while.

 

[MoneyMack]

I'm gonna say that the one thing that WWE is getting right with Nexus is that they are at least beginning to get some gold around the waists of its members to at least make them appear as legit talents. Plus I think Barrett will beat Orton and bring more legitimacy to the group.

That's the one thing that makes me critical of Immortal.

It's a shame that they seem to be keeping an elite tag team like Beer Money out of the ring and out of tag title contention.
They should be competing for and winning the titles and bringing more gold to Immortal.

See- I guess thats what its all about for me!! Why isnt Beer Money goin after the tag belts? Cuz it isnt about Beer Money! It isnt about AJ! It isnt even about Williams or Kaz or even Abyss or possbily even Hardy! Immortals is all about Hogan & Bischoff!!!

Thats the problem with Immortal. The one good thing that will come out of this is WHOEVER they decide to be the person or persons to break Immortal apart! Anderson? Joe? Pope? Combo? THATS da payoff in this storyline IMO. But thats not gonna happen for a good while- I assume

 

[Vendetta487]

Bischoff has a lot of never criticizing anything right now. Did you happen to watch iMPACT last week? What the fuck was that shit? That shit was damn right unwatchable. It was a gigantic 2 hour clusterfuck. You know what is boring? Fortune is BORING!! Blah, blah. Whats the difference between fortune and the guys that used to hang around Ric Flair when he first came to TNA? NOTHING!! Its the same shit except they replace Desmond Wolfe with Doug Williams and added a crappy name. And why are they feuding with Copyright Infringement aka EV2? There goes 2 bad ideas thrown together for one angle that is even worse. Fortune is NOT the horsemen. The Horsemen was one of the greatest stables EVER! Fortune is generic heels thrown together that kiss ass of an old soggy balled fat ass in Ric Flair.

How about this supergroup called Immortals? BORING!! Abyss? BORING!!!! Jeff Jarrett? BORING!!!!! Samoa Joe? BORING!!!!! TNA IMPACT, BORING!!!

I admit, the Nexus Angle has had its issues. It started out awesome and then kind of lost steam but I do find the angle has regained some steam when Cena joined and they added Harris and McGillicutty. Idk, maybe Bischoff has a strange idea of what entertaining is. This is the same guy behind CCW after all. lol. Talk about a boring clusterfuck. Who wants to watch washed up d-list celebrities try to wrestle? Bischoff should try making TNA entertaining for one. The only few bright spots are The Pope and Anderson. Why the hell was Van Dam given the Belt instead of The Pope? Thats the problem with TNA. They dont take any chances. They are BORING!! Only doing a bunch of crap thats already been done to death. RVD was never a headliner and he never will be. The Pope or Anderson might be. We don't know. There is only one way to find out. At least WWE isnt afraid to take a chance and push somebody new all the way to the top. They took a chance on Sheamus and that turned out pretty good. I thought he wasnt ready but he made good use of his opportunity and grew. Maybe Eric Bischoff will take notes on how to build new stars.
I Bet Bischoff is stupid enough to bury Robbie E in a few months just because the impact zone ********s dont like him. They arent supposed to like him. They will probably waste him because Bischoff is an idiot. He is actually getting some really good heat at the moment and no not the bad type you smarks will try to say. Bischoff is an idiot who doesn't know anything about wrestling and thats why TNA sucks ass.

 

[Sting's Bat]

I read this whole thread and I have to say im honestly amused at all the WWE guys who despite saying they know all about Bishoff play right into his hands. EB loves this type of shit getting people riled and speaking his name and the name of the company he works for.

As for the Nexus they started out very hot, but summerslam and some of the singles matchs prior to that really weakened them as a group and showed people green/rookies = weak in all aspects. This whole thing with Cena is a hail mary if ive ever seen one to try to keep the Nexus relevant after jobbing the new "super dominate" faction at SummerSlam.

 

[realdealasshole]

About as clear as all the McMahon spooge you've got caked in your eyes right now, but I digress...



Cool. Good for him. Nexus still sucks, and Nexus is still boring.

Again, this is only a big deal because Bischoff said it. Had just about anyone else done so, it'd have passed by just like the majority of comments on this site do, because none of us have a historical penchant for ruffling feathers like Eric does.



I wouldn't know — I gave up on the WWE weeks ago. All I know is the Nexus I knew was boring, just like Eric said.



Again, I wouldn't know – they bored me to the point of canceling their programming on my DVR weeks ago.

Oh, what a phenomenal comeback. "Mcmahon splooge" About what I expected. Nonsensical comebacks based purely on you finding it boring rather than a legitimate response which is what you were getting on people's cases for in the first place. WWE may bore you personally, but it certainly doesn't bore more people than TNA since they get at least 2 million more fans on a bad day than TNA at it's best day. That's looking at the facts, just like your boy Bischoff has stated he likes looking at in the past. And just so you know, I'm not a sucker for McMahon. I supported TNA far more than WWE. In fact, hadn't watched WWE for about three years til Nexus showed up. I just call it like I see it. And fact is, TNA is heading in a horrible direction where as WWE, while not nearly as entertaining as they can be, and with a far worse roster than TNA, is simply better right now.

 

[realdealasshole]

He won't, I will.

How in the BLUE hell is that entertaining? Cena is under the control of Wade Barret and his cronies. YAAAY! Oh my god my adrenaline is going through the roof! How is that exciting? What exactly is the thrill in this? Just because Nexus is doing SOMETHING doesn't mean it's good/entertaining. It's not, it's HBK/JBL all over again, without the great promos and certainly not as emotional.

It's entertaining enough for over 2 million more people to watch it than watch TNA. And really? You wanna talk about rehashed storylines? TNA literally went to the same place Hogan turned to start the NWO just so they could rehash that storyline only a billion times more dull and nonsensical. Jeff Hardy turned on all his fans! My goodness! Stop the presses! But wait...it was shocking...oh yeah, it was only shocking because no one cares about Jeff Hardy. Just because he's teamed with Bischoff doesn't automatically make him an amazingly hated Heel. In fact, he probably got more cheers than Morgan last night. I found that hilarious. Immortal is the epitomy of horribly rehashed booking. There seriously has not been a worse rehashed storyline (and no, i'm not against rehashed storylines, but you brought it up, and in this case, I most certainly am against this because it flat out sucks. And the ratings show that it's not working. Especially since when immortal is on screen the ratings drop. Look at the quarterly ratings. It proves that).

WWE is doing MANY things better than TNA, but surprisingly enough none of them are on TV. Like IDR said, we gave you solid arguments proving that Immortal is better than Nexus in EVERY department. Build up, execution, the people in it. I'm fine with people liking The Nexus. No wait, LOVING it. But the way I see it, none of you gave LOGICAL reasons why Nexus is that much better than Immortal. All I heard was "because they're rookies". Well if THAT'S the case, then Robbie E. winning the X-Division title is fucking genius because he's also a "rookie".

If you don't provide a reason, if you just say "TNA sucks, WWE is better", and fill your posts with "!!!??!11!" and "" -- then you just prove that you're just fan boys in denial. Me? I'm a fan boy. I'm a fucking mark. But I know what I'm marking about, and I know what I hate. Unlike people who bash TNA without watching the product, I know what I'm shitting on. I've seen good wrestling, I've seen good booking, I've watched the WWE for 20 years and I know what's good TV and what's bad TV. Currently, WWE is producing bad TV, and TNA isn't doing miracles, but it's certainly much, much better than the morning cartoon World Wrestling Entertainment has become. Nexus and Immortal are just one example, the list goes on.

So please, someone, give me solid proof and try to convince me why exactly Immortal is worse than The Nexus, since that seems to be the main issue here. "Bischoff's group isn't better so he shouldn't talk". Okay, shoot. Why.

Absolutely none of that had anything to do with my post to it's damn real. And I've already made other posts to prove why immortal is dull. Clearly you're an idiot though so I really don't know why I just wasted my time typing this out.

 

[WAR VET]

I find WWE as a whole to be boring these days. Im one of those people that cant get past the attitude era because living thro9ugh that was a treat for all wrestling fans. I also dont agree with Bischoff bashing anything the WWE does or any other wrestling company fpr that matter, he has way too much going on in TNA to be worried about whats going on elsewhere. Ive never been a big fan of Bischoffs work outside the nWo and the elimination chamber, any opinion he or Hogan have means nothing to me...

 

[ABMorales787]

I agree with Bischoff. Either they are gang-banging somebody, or Wade is just saying nothing of relevant importance. That's about all there is to The Nexus. I won't compare them to TNA's Immortal's because they don't really act like much of a stable. Fourtune? Yes. TNA's best homegrown talent and Nature Bo Ric Flair. Hard for Nexus to compete with that. WWE fan's hear this and it's like hearing somebody scratch a blackboard. Geez, relax. It's just an opinion.

 

[MB1025]

However, Immortal is ALSO used to build stars, or at least enhance them. Any stable that doesn't consist of Main Eventers is there to build stars, even if that's not the original reason why it came about.

Who has the Immortals built? Seriously no one in the immortals is any more over than they were before BFG and many of them (like williams) has actually been knocked down a few pegs.



I agree as I said in past posts the whole success of the immortals angle is based on if hardy becomes a good heel, but even thats not very original. In TNA's eyes they tried to do the same thing as Bash at the Beach '96, only with Hardy, so even though Hardy being heel is new, its still been done before. Lastly, if the immortals are working is really a matter of opinion. You say its working, I say its not.



No, no one wants to see Jeff Hardy, HE SUCKS. The other guys though, yeah people do want to see them, but they are on the backburner where you are mostly seeing guys like Jarrett and Hogan. the nWo had alot of young talent too, but it doesn't change the fact that they went unnoticed in the group. All the guys you just mentioned (outside of Hardy) are all unfortunately going to fade into the background while guys like Hogan and Jarrett are taking the forefront.



Apparently you didn't see Summerslam because KHALI WASN'T IN THE FUCKING MATCH GENIUS! Secondly, the match wasn't the greatest, but they've done just fine since then. I'll be the first to admit they dropped the ball a bit at summerslam with Nexus, but was ONE fumble and they've scored more than enough points to make up for that fumble. And yes we do have a choice, if its so bad you can just turn off the TV (and watch iMPACT) its that simple. If you don't have cable there's always justin.tv so don't say they don't have a choice because they DO.



No they don't especially the with them forming up with Fortune (Flair would never get together with Hogan in a million years genius, now all of a sudden they're bonding and good friends, yeah that makes sense). Or how about the fact Dixie basically signed TNA over to the immortals because she was too stupid to read a contract. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? No, none of that makes sense.

PS. I give iMPACT a shot plenty, and I've seen how the group came together and with fortune the next impact so I have plenty of knowledge about the immortals douchebag. I've tried to watch a full episode since then, but the show sucks so hard that I can't digest 5 minutes of TNA programming without vomiting, but I still give it a chance because I truly want them to succeed.



Barrett's overall stronger than anyone in the Immortals and thats a FACT. He can wrestle, he can talk, he gets a hell of a reaction (which has NOTHING to do with what show your on, plenty of people get no reaction in WWE programming) every week. AJ might wrestle better, but he sucks on the mic and has a fraction of the charisma Barrett has, there's alot more to wrestling than the in ring part of it and it all comes together. Some might be better at certain things than Barrett but overall Barrett buries them all.

1. How can Immortal build a star in less then a month. They may have with Matt Morgan since at the PPV he took 3 twist of hates before being pinned by Hardy. He also dominated Hardy for most of the match. If I am not mistaken Hardy has put several big names in the WWE down with only one twist of fate.

2. The concept of Hardy turning heel has been done before. Lets draw the line there. I mean if you want to go there couldn't we say every time someone turns heel they are doing a Hulk Hogan? If this event wasn't were it was there wouldn't even be an issue about it. The fact is hardy has never been a heel at the main event level. He has not been a heel in over ten years. For anyone shitting on this angle in less then a month is a fucking moron and shouldn't even be debating in this topic.

3. It is funny how you talk about others guy being placed on the back burner. Do you know how you can tell Nexus failed? It is when they had to take their biggest star and put him actually in the group to overshadow everyone else because there original idea was terrible and didn't work. Now John Cen has become more important than Nexus because this is a story line set up for Cena to come out on top. Furthermore if this is such a strong group how come they are the ones losing members from stipulations and not WWE. The Raw and Smnackdown guys have looked stronger every time out. Also I don't want to here anymore about people in WWE having gold besides the 2 world titles. Every belt in that company is worthless and means nothing. It is a prop and does nothing to propel anyone.

4. You know what doesn't make sense. A mystery GM being able to right a page report about an incident after said incident happened. Or how about Nexus just burying the Undertaker for no reason. Or how about the entire concept of NXT where one guy or girl is supposed to be the winner and get a contract and now there is 15 terrible workers getting contracts. How about the fact Vince McMahon was all over TV for months talking about the election and then waking up from a coma on TV trying to convince us didn't know what was going on. Yea I can go on and on if you like, but I may get you to realize how much a pathetic show Raw has turned into and I don't want you to have nothing to do on Monday nights.

5. Wade doesn't bury anyone in anything. Maybe the steaming pile of shit he calls a finisher, but that is for another debate. I tell you what. You put
Jeff Hardy and Wade Barrett in a match together and you tell me who gets more over. Remember wade Barrett is the guy who needs John Cena in his group to get over. Wade Barrett couldn't do it on his own so they had to make Cena the focal point of the group.

Game, Set, Match. BTW RAW WAS FUCKING HORRIBLE TONIGHT.