Benoits Legacy Cemented by WWE Network

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Well, Benoit's there but WWE won't acknowledge him. I was watching the Monday Night Wars. The episode on the cruiserweights talked about the time the Radicalz jumped to the WWF. Benoit was even mentioned on the original commentary by JR but no one talked about him, either from WCW or from WWF. People behaved as if the he had not existed and that there were only three members in the Radicalz: Guerrero, Malenko and Saturn.

And I guess, that is the way it should be and will be. Benoit was a murderer and that trumps everything that he has ever done, no matter what the circumstances were. Wrestling's just entertainment, murder is a henious act and there can't be any situation in which a murderer can be forgiven just because he was entertaining.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I believe that history is history, and you have to record it and acknowledge it, no matter how ugly it is.

Do we pretend that the Holocaust or 9/11 didn't happen? Do we remove all trace of them from existence?

There is plenty of docos on Adolf Hitler, and no-one would deny he was a murderer. Because he did horrible things, do we react by pretending he never existed?

Yet, when it comes to sportspeople, we have a different standard. We strip Lance Armstrong of Tour De Frances, and we try to erase Benoit from WWE history.

Chris Benoit wrestled in Japan, ECW, WCW and WWE. Fact. He won the 2005 Royal Rumble, and the World Title at WMXX. Fact! Whether we like that or not, we can't pretend it didn't happen. We can't rewrite history just because the author of that history did ugly things.

Erasing Benoit is censorship, and I thought people were against that. Shouldn't people have the choice whether to watch his matches or not (and remember, he hadn't murdered anyone when he had wrestled these matches).
I think what the Network has done (give a prior warning) is good, because you can then decide whether to watch his matches or not. But it is not up to WWE to make this choice for us.

People get all bent out of shape these days, and get easily offended by anything. WWE showing a part of history (matches with Chris Benoit in them) is in no way an endorsement to his actions (and, like I said before, he never wrestled as "Chris Benoit-Murderer"), and anyone who is stupid enough to say otherwise deserves to get ignored.

Make your own decision, but let others make theirs, and I applaud WWE Network for not pretending that these matches didn't happen.

 

[Navi]

I believe that history is history, and you have to record it and acknowledge it, no matter how ugly it is.

Do we pretend that the Holocaust or 9/11 didn't happen? Do we remove all trace of them from existence?

There is plenty of docos on Adolf Hitler, and no-one would deny he was a murderer. Because he did horrible things, do we react by pretending he never existed?

Yet, when it comes to sportspeople, we have a different standard. We strip Lance Armstrong of Tour De Frances, and we try to erase Benoit from WWE history.

Chris Benoit wrestled in Japan, ECW, WCW and WWE. Fact. He won the 2005 Royal Rumble, and the World Title at WMXX. Fact! Whether we like that or not, we can't pretend it didn't happen. We can't rewrite history just because the author of that history did ugly things.

Erasing Benoit is censorship, and I thought people were against that. Shouldn't people have the choice whether to watch his matches or not (and remember, he hadn't murdered anyone when he had wrestled these matches).
I think what the Network has done (give a prior warning) is good, because you can then decide whether to watch his matches or not. But it is not up to WWE to make this choice for us.

People get all bent out of shape these days, and get easily offended by anything. WWE showing a part of history (matches with Chris Benoit in them) is in no way an endorsement to his actions (and, like I said before, he never wrestled as "Chris Benoit-Murderer"), and anyone who is stupid enough to say otherwise deserves to get ignored.

Make your own decision, but let others make theirs, and I applaud WWE Network for not pretending that these matches didn't happen.

How is there a different standard? Hitler is reviled by most and do we wish he never existed, I'm sure the thousands and thousands that he had killed, and their families wish he hadn't.

Lance Armstrong was stripped of the Tour de France titles because he was found to have used performance enhancing drugs to win. Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire will probably never make it into the MLB Hall of Fame because of the same reason. Pete Rose will never be a Hall of Famer either because he bet on games.

Chris Benoit wasn't erased from history, his matches are still part of the WWE archives and it's up to individual fans whether they want to watch them or not. Was he a good wrestler, yes he was, and no one can take that away from him. It was his last acts on the face of the earth that unfortunately will determine how most people think of him.

The WWE didn't cement Chris Benoit legacy. He cemented his legacy when he decided to kill his wife and child. There is no one to blame but him.

 

[Mudlup50]

Chris Benoit wasn't erased from history, his matches are still part of the WWE archives and it's up to individual fans whether they want to watch them or not. Was he a good wrestler, yes he was, and no one can take that away from him. It was his last acts on the face of the earth that unfortunately will determine how most people think of him.

Someone on YouTube(OTRSCentral) said he can't watch a Benoit match without picturing if he was being that intense as he killed his wife and son. It's one of those things where you're either going to be able to look past it or not, I'm not arguing with you, just saying.

How many people can say their last moments on Earth will be how they're remembered forever? Most people just die and that's that, yet never will someone watch a Benoit match and just think this guy was a great wrestler. That thought will always be in a lot of people's minds.

And as far as the debate over the HoF, as Jericho and Jim Ross put it: Benoit wouldn't want to be in the Hall knowing it would cause so much controversy for the company and business in general. Granted, they aren't Benoit but they know a lot more about Benoit's brain than I do.


I think most of it comes down to opinion and so I do agree with the WWE on(apparently, I don't have the Network so I don't know for fact) warning you before the matches.

You think this was something that could have shut the WWE down, yet they're still running. As a fan of the company, I'm just glad for that.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

As mentioned above, nobody glorifies OJ Simpson because he was a great football player. He murdered his wife and her lover and that's it. He will never be in the HOF, he will never be "remembered" for his football career because he was a disgraceful person. He might as well have never played football.

OJ Simpson was inducted into the HOF in 1985. He was never thrown out retroactively.

 

[TDFG]

Chris Benoit was one of the greatest technical wrestlers the World had ever seen. He accomplished a tremendous amount in his time inside the ring and as a wrestler, Benoit should be considered a legend.

 

[Reiko4Me]

As mentioned above, nobody glorifies OJ Simpson because he was a great football player. He murdered his wife and her lover and that's it.

I don't think OJ is held to the same degree as Benoit. Yes, there's some people out there who might still think that OJ was innocent. The surprising thing about all that is that there's a group of people who justify OJ's murder because it was passionate crime between a couple cheating on each other. I have seen guys say something along the lines of "Any guy would do that if they caught their wife cheating". I don't agree with that statement, but I have seen it gets tossed around in many different cases.

It's funny that you say that nobody will remember him as a football player. A couple weeks back I was watching one of the Naked Gun movies and a coworker asked me if he played football. Just last week my nephew was watching my copy of a Naked Gun movie and asked me if OJ was the killer from the Goldust Hollywood street fight,lol. He saw WM 12 and had told him about the OJ car chase and showed him a pic of Juice, so he recognized him right away. Being that all that was still fresh in his mind.

I think you're right. More will know OJ as a killer than a football player. That's going to be his legacy. I just don't think OJ will be held to the same degree as Benoit. One killed his kid, the other didn't.

 

[Navi]

I don't think OJ is held to the same degree as Benoit. Yes, there's some people out there who might still think that OJ was innocent. The surprising thing about all that is that there's a group of people who justify OJ's murder because it was passionate crime between a couple cheating on each other. I have seen guys say something along the lines of "Any guy would do that if they caught their wife cheating". I don't agree with that statement, but I have seen it gets tossed around in many different cases.

It's funny that you say that nobody will remember him as a football player. A couple weeks back I was watching one of the Naked Gun movies and a coworker asked me if he played football. Just last week my nephew was watching my copy of a Naked Gun movie and asked me if OJ was the killer from the Goldust Hollywood street fight,lol. He saw WM 12 and had told him about the OJ car chase and showed him a pic of Juice, so he recognized him right away. Being that all that was still fresh in his mind.

I think you're right. More will know OJ as a killer than a football player. That's going to be his legacy. I just don't think OJ will be held to the same degree as Benoit. One killed his kid, the other didn't.

The OJ Simpson case was a circus that if happened in most other countries he would have been found guilty. Most of the people involved because star struck and it should never have been televised. As for Nicole Brown Simpson, they were separated at the time and not living as man and wife. She was killed her home not one they shared together. Still didn't make less legal for him to kill her.

He is in jail now for a completely unrelated crime to the murder, and good for him, he's where he should be.

 

[CKDaimen702]

I was a HUGE Chris Benoit fan, and I feel that there is NO WAY IN HELL that his legacy in the ring will outshine what he did. And with all due respect, I think it is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

Keep in mind, the more years pass, the more people are going to say, (while watching one of his great matches on the Network) "Hey, I never hear about this Chris Benoit guy" and you know what they are going to do? They are going to Google him. And I assure you, at the end of their search, the last thing on their mind will be the great match they watched.

As for current fans, I don't care how ardent of a fan you are of the business or Benoit...for his in-ring work to outshine what he did makes you every bit as insane as he was.

 

[d_henderson1810]

If the police thought Snuka did it, then why wasn't he arrested and charged. Because they had no proof then and they have even less now. Did he do it? I don't know, but if he did he should pay for it by doing jail time.

No jury in the US is going to convict him now after 30 years has gone by with just rumour and speculation. They will want hard core proof and the police don't have it to give to them. That's why we never heard anything back from the grand jury. It doesn't take a year for them to decide something like this. It was probably a no go.

I'm not going to continue the argument on Benoit. I think he's a murderer and nothing will ever change that. It was investigated and determined to be him that did it.

1) Benoit never faced trial either, because he was dead. If he had, who knows what he may have revealed under cross-examination.

2) There was no hard-core proof on Benoit either. No witnesses, circumstantial evidence, and lack of other suspects (even though Kevin Sullivan was never interviewed).

3) "Nothing will ever change that". What is the case is re-opened one day, and new evidence clears Benoit of the murders. Cold cases are re-opened, sometimes many decades later, and new evidence clears the suspect who was jailed the first time around. Are you saying that, if the police were to admit an error, and overturn the verdict of Benoit as killer, you won't accept it, because you don't like the guy?

 

[d_henderson1810]

How is there a different standard? Hitler is reviled by most and do we wish he never existed, I'm sure the thousands and thousands that he had killed, and their families wish he hadn't.

Lance Armstrong was stripped of the Tour de France titles because he was found to have used performance enhancing drugs to win. Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire will probably never make it into the MLB Hall of Fame because of the same reason. Pete Rose will never be a Hall of Famer either because he bet on games.

Chris Benoit wasn't erased from history, his matches are still part of the WWE archives and it's up to individual fans whether they want to watch them or not. Was he a good wrestler, yes he was, and no one can take that away from him. It was his last acts on the face of the earth that unfortunately will determine how most people think of him.

The WWE didn't cement Chris Benoit legacy. He cemented his legacy when he decided to kill his wife and child. There is no one to blame but him.

Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test, so the evidence was based on witnesses (some who had something to gain by incriminating him).

There was talk of heavily editing DVDs and removing any matches that had Chris Benoit. I have a 'MITB" DVD, with all the previous MITB matches on them, and the WM21 one has Benoit not be mentioned in the commentary (instead there is dead air). Also, his records were not acknowledged, until recently, in WWE literature. So, they have tried to either erase him or edit his matches (and its commentary) on some DVDs.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Chris Benoit is in the same category in the court of public opinion as O.J. Simpson at this point. Most people's first thought when the name "O.J. Simpson" is brought up isn't "great football player." Instead, it's "killer." If you ask the casual observer about Chris Benoit, they aren't going to say "what a great ring tactician." They're going to say, "he murdered his family and killed himself." For that reason (as well as the fact that Benoit was a glorified mid-carder who wasn't particularly skilled on the mic), WWE is never going to formally recognize his existence. The fact that they haven't blurred out his face in all of his matches on the Network is the closest fans of Benoit will get to a formal recognition of his presence.

One thing I have found funny with sport is, Chris Benoit or Pete Rose will never go into the HoF, yet O.J. remains in the NFL HoF, because he did his crimes AFTER he was inducted.

Why do your actions prevent you from entering a HoF, yet similar actions don't remove you from a HoF. So, do you wait until you are in the HoF first, and then commit crimes, safe in the knowledge that they will never remove you?

Also, Benoit's death drew attention to WWE's lax Wellness program, so that is another reason Vince doesn't want to acknowledge Benoit.

 

[Navi]

Lance Armstrong never failed a drug test, so the evidence was based on witnesses (some who had something to gain by incriminating him).

There was talk of heavily editing DVDs and removing any matches that had Chris Benoit. I have a 'MITB" DVD, with all the previous MITB matches on them, and the WM21 one has Benoit not be mentioned in the commentary (instead there is dead air). Also, his records were not acknowledged, until recently, in WWE literature. So, they have tried to either erase him or edit his matches (and its commentary) on some DVDs.

Lance Armstrong admitted on Oprah that he had used performance enhancing drugs. Admittedly this was after they stripped him of the titles. And it was proven how he cheated the drug tests. Witnesses are important, whether they have an axe to grand or not. If they are telling the truth then it really doesn't matter what their motives are. Witnesses are used everyday in trials around the world. If you start saying witnesses are only there to get the guy then no one ever would be convicted of any crime, as their testimony would be suspect. Besides rumours about Armstrong had been floating for years, and these were his teammates that started them.

They didn't erase Benoit from the archives, you can still watch his matches, they just don't say his name. It's a workaround for not taking that match out of whatever archival footage they have. It's not a big deal. He's still there.

1) Benoit never faced trial either, because he was dead. If he had, who knows what he may have revealed under cross-examination.

2) There was no hard-core proof on Benoit either. No witnesses, circumstantial evidence, and lack of other suspects (even though Kevin Sullivan was never interviewed).

3) "Nothing will ever change that". What is the case is re-opened one day, and new evidence clears Benoit of the murders. Cold cases are re-opened, sometimes many decades later, and new evidence clears the suspect who was jailed the first time around. Are you saying that, if the police were to admit an error, and overturn the verdict of Benoit as killer, you won't accept it, because you don't like the guy?

I liked Benoit, I don't like what he did. And what sealed it for me, was the police report that stated after the WWE called the police, they had an issue even getting into the house. The house was behind a fence with a huge gate, and two german shepherd dogs were guarding the property. They had a problem getting by the dogs. That's why they ruled out an intruder. Those dogs wouldn't have let anyone onto that property.

Keven Sullivan was in Atlanta and why should they question him. Just because he was her ex husband that means nothing. He was in another state.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Benoit is a murderer. He murdered his wife and then he murdered his son.

Yes, he was...... and yes, he did. I still wonder at the agony of mind he must have suffered in the hours he lived after taking the lives of others; it makes me feel bad inside to think of it.

Benoit was a man of whom I had read only good things before the tragedy ....his devotion to family, his friendliness and helpfulness to people he worked with, how he gave of himself to worthy causes outside the workplace.

Do I know that's all true? No, I don't, any more than we can verify what we read about other celebrities. Still, if what caused Benoit to do what he did was beyond his control, I do feel bad for him. Yes, I understand we're not supposed to say anything good about him, any more than we're allowed to say anything bad about Owen Hart.

Still, Benoit is a part of pro wrestling's history and.....glorified midcarder or not....he did a lot of things we'd be remembering in a positive way today had he not taken the lives of other people. In my mind, the positive things aren't erased because of what happened.....and if you want to tune out of watching his matches on a TV screen.....feel free to do it.

Personally, while I'm appalled at what he did, I pause to wonder what made him do it......and I won't take an "Aw, I never liked Benoit anyway" stance from all this, because I did like him, regardless of how I might feel now......and if one of his matches shows up on a DVD I'm watching, I'm not going to run screaming from the room.

Revising history benefits no one, imo.

 

[ghost94]

Fuck Chris Benoit.

And fuck anyone who thinks his "legacy in the ring" should outweigh the fact that he KILLED his wife and son.

It amazes me that this is actually a topic of discussion.

I agree completely with you. When he was alive, I thought he was pretty damn good to be honest, but when people talk about legacy they need to take into account what he did outside of the ring. And people will sit there and compare what he did with guys doing steroids and cheating on their wives. The guy murdered his wife and child... A child. People need to give up. His legacy means absoloutely nothing. And there honestly are hundreds of better wrestlers than him.

 

[aholeisahole]

1) Benoit never faced trial either, because he was dead. If he had, who knows what he may have revealed under cross-examination.

2) There was no hard-core proof on Benoit either. No witnesses, circumstantial evidence, and lack of other suspects (even though Kevin Sullivan was never interviewed).

3) "Nothing will ever change that". What is the case is re-opened one day, and new evidence clears Benoit of the murders. Cold cases are re-opened, sometimes many decades later, and new evidence clears the suspect who was jailed the first time around. Are you saying that, if the police were to admit an error, and overturn the verdict of Benoit as killer, you won't accept it, because you don't like the guy?

Are you seriously suggesting that Benoit was framed? That's... amazing.

You'd have to be Chief Wiggum to think that the evidence points to someone else.