Batista can't draw Heel Heat

[colalella2891]

OK. I don't know if Batista as a heel will work.

Every time the guy is shown he gets cheered. There are a few boos in there, but way more cheers are there. Batista's heel turn may be fresh, but the guy can't draw heel heat!! The fans still love him. I understand at Survivor Series he was cheered because they were in DC, but on Raw he got a legit face reaction, and on Smackdown he did as well. Maybe the fans need some getting used to, but adjustments must be made. What do you all think? Is he doing fine as a heel or is this all a fail?

 

[hulk 2010]

I understand your point completely, I have point of view I will explain.

Batista is completely successful in his role as an evil monster and leading role, and I repeat, very very successful. And the fan's like that and they admire that the animal is fierce now. Enjoy it as I do, maybe he'll get cheered a lot and perhaps more than boooooed , but this does not mean failure, but means that he can be admired by the fan's, whether for good or evil.

Unlike John Cena, gets boooooooed like hell, despite the role he plays good and this means failing to perform its role. But Batista interacts with the fans. Always, in any role. And if you remember days of the evolution when the crowd cheered for Batista also, despite his role as evil .

This is my point of view and thank you for the topic. Greetings

 

[RavensFlock1990]

Well Batista is an awesome dominant heel. Most fans over the age of 8 think he has one of the coolest roles in wrestling. His promo work is 50x better as a heel than as a face. He doesn't run away from people like most heels do. There's really no reason to boo the guy now unless you are a fan that just boos every heel just cause they are a "bad guy".

 

[bucks8897]

I love Batista as a heel but there's one thing I noticed and maybe I'm just crazy but I think he has a hard time selling the fact that's he's heel.

Everytime he makes a comment that he should draw heat with or runs from a fight he gets this odd grin on his face almost saying "i can't believe i'm doing this" or "I can't believe I just said that" and it makes it hard for me to believe he really means it.

Take when Kane entered the ring and challenged him. Batista just left the ring as saying "i'm scared of you and want no part" which should help him generate a lot of heat but as he was walking out he had that odd grin which told me "boy i'd love to just Batista Bomb you right here but I can't cause then they would cheer me" haha

Maybe i'm just crazy but thats what's giving me a hardtime believeing this heel turn.

 

[hulk 2010]

Maybe you are right actually
But do not forget that Batista was playing the role of good for 5 years
A very long time Still trying to adjust to the new role
And now he is mastering the role of heel
And certainly after several months we will call him best Heel monster ever And for what happened between him and Kane in raw
I find myself completely agreed with you
i respect kane alot
but i see him as the next on the line of victims to the heel animal

 

[Slyfox696]

He can't draw heat, but he gets cheered every time he is on screen? How does that make sense? The fact he gets cheers every time he's on the screen is a sign that he HAS heat.

What I think you mean to say is that you don't think he can get HEEL heat. There's a major difference.

As for whether or not he can get over as a heel, that'll probably depend mostly upon who he's matched up with. He needs to go against the Undertaker in order to turn the crowd against him. If he goes against anyone else, he's going to struggle to get over.

 

[Jack Tunney's Ghost]

Bucks nailed it on the head 100%.

Batista is not the kind of guy who "screams" his promos, as his promos are delivered in a somewhat "as a matter of fact" kind of fashion.

But, he keeps grinning or smirking whenever he cuts a promo and that somewhat takes away the fierce, threatening monster he needs to be to be fully regarded as a heel.

When he said he was going to rip Mysterio's head off at Bragging Rights, that smile worked because he was just turning into a heel, so, it came off as being creepy and that worked.

But, now, he's over doing the smirks and it's ruining any credibility as being a true threat -- ESPECIALLY when he cowards out of a confrontation like last night on Raw.

Not all heels have to growl and scream promos and I appreciate Batista trying to go that way. But, there's a certain trick to it where you can be threatening and not screaming.

The best at this type of promo was Jake Roberts. He never really screamed his promos, but, when he talked, you knew he was going to kick your ass anyway. He came off as being calm, but, smarter and tougher than you. He wasn't smirking like an idiot either.

Batista when he was a face cut promos where he came off sounding intelligent and smart and didn't depend on a smirk either. So, he IS capable of cutting this kind of promo. Why he's doing the smirk now as a heel is beyond me.

If Batista were smart, he'd utilize a man that's backstage in the WWE that can cut a killer promo where, again, sounding smarter than you, and will tell you that he will kick your ass and you know he will... Arn Anderson. Arn also cut some of the best of the convincing non-screaming but believable promos ever. Batista can learn a helluva from Arn and should take advantage of learning from Arn.

 

[jayteeERA]

Sly said it best, Batista just need to work with the undertaker to get the crowd against him. As far as him working with Kane right now. Hell i dont know if he is a face or a heel? But it will be a good set up to the undertaker.

Another point that Buck made about the Batista / Kane confrontation. I can agree with, Batista looked like he couldn't believe he had to back down. I saw it all in his eyes. I know he has to adjust, but it will take time. I know if this was the old heel Batista he would of looked like "I ll rip your head off", and still back down.

 

[Slyfox696]

colalella2891:

If your post gets deleted for spam, don't re-post it. Either add more to your post, or just let it go.

Your post was:

Dude. Usually the word 'heat' is used for heels, and POPS are used for faces. But, yea I meant HEEL HEAT.

I don't give a fuck what it "usually" means to the IWC, I'm talking about what it REALLY means in the wrestling world. Heat and pops have absolutely nothing to do with heel and face. A wrestler can have heat, a match can have heat, a segment can have heat, etc. A wrestler can get a pop, a spot in a match can get a pop, an entrance song can get a pop....those words have nothing to do with face and heel.

Heat simply refers to the momentum a worker/match/etc. has. Pop refers to the crowd reacting in a positive way to something you have worked them up to.


As for getting over as a heel, like I said earlier, he needs to be put in a program with someone he's guaranteed to get hated for, which at this point may only be the Undertaker. I'm not sure people care enough about Rey Mysterio at this, and Triple H and HBK are on the other show. That really leaves the UT.

I could see UT and Batista feuding for a while, maybe to January, and then see Cena and UT move into a program with each other, and a returning Edge working a program with a heel Batista, if Edge is healed by then. Because if Batista can go heel enough, then Edge returning as a face would get him over as a heel big time.

 

[Blue Chipper]

He can't draw heat, but he gets cheered every time he is on screen? How does that make sense? The fact he gets cheers every time he's on the screen is a sign that he HAS heat.

Not to nitpick, but doesn't the term "heat" commonly come with the connotation of being a negative reaction, as opposed to just a reaction? I think it's accepted that "heat" is an antagonistic crowd response. A "pop", however, is either a positive or negative crowd reaction. Perhaps, you confused the two.
Edit: I see you answered my question above.


Batista is doing everything right. He's being a full-fledged heel, playing by the customary heel laws. But, why is he not receiving major "heel" heat? A possible theory is that, considering Batista is a major player and has a faithful following, it's hard for many fans to transition. I think he needs to do something unsettling to the fans (albeit a fairly cheap move, Cheap heat?), or have him feud with a top baby face, a la Undertaker. Both scenarios would have a pretty good chance of working and solidifying him further as a heel.

 

[Slyfox696]

Not to nitpick, but doesn't the term "heat" commonly come with the connotation of being a negative reaction, as opposed to just a reaction? I think it's accepted that "heat" is an antagonistic crowd response. A "pop", however, is either a positive or negative crowd reaction. Perhaps, you confused the two.

You would have been right not to nitpick. Heat is another one of those wrestling terms that Internet wrestling fans have completely bastardized into something that it's not. Heat is not just a negative reaction, heat is the momentum of a wrestler. Goldberg in early 1998 had a ton of heat...he was hot and WCW pushed him all the way to the main-event because of it. Heat is simply a term to describe someone who is garnering a strong reaction from the fans on a consistent basis.

Batista is doing everything right. He's being a full-fledged heel, playing by the customary heel laws.

The only thing I saw was last night, and that was not really "customary" heel laws. Heels don't come out and threaten to kick everyone's ass. Heel's try to steal victories and titles, and then weasel their way out of trying to defend them. Obviously, that doesn't describe all heels, but that's a good majority of heels. A good heel will never give you a reason to support him. What Batista said last night could easily be supported by fans.

 

[colalella2891]

Not to nitpick, but doesn't the term "heat" commonly come with the connotation of being a negative reaction, as opposed to just a reaction? I think it's accepted that "heat" is an antagonistic crowd response. A "pop", however, is either a positive or negative crowd reaction. Perhaps, you confused the two.
Edit: I see you answered my question above.


Batista is doing everything right. He's being a full-fledged heel, playing by the customary heel laws. But, why is he not receiving major "heel" heat? A possible theory is that, considering Batista is a major player and has a faithful following, it's hard for his many fans to transition. I think he needs to do something unsettling to the fans (albeit a fairly cheap move, Cheap heat?), or have him feud a top baby face, a la Undertaker. Both scenarios would have a pretty good chance of working and solidifying him further as a heel.

I think SlyFox has it down. It makes sense what they posted.

In my opinion, Batista should do something as simple as insult the fans. That's what Jericho pretty much does, calling the people hypocrites, parasites, sickel, etc. It works, Jericho gets booed a lot because of that. Maybe Batista should try that approach. He hasn't insulted the fans yet, and usually heels do at one point, saying the fans don't matter and what not.

 

[Inferno Prince]

I think the way Batista turned "heel" in the first place is an indicator of how he's going to be with Kane and his future feuds

You didn't really expect him to suddenly beat the holy hell out of Rey-Rey, it just sort of happened

Batistas little grin when Kane challenged him seemed more like a "You just got yourself into a nice pile of s*** my friend" kind of smile. Yeah, he walked away from the fight, but does Batista ever finish off a battle with someone without, at some point or another, throwing them all over the ring?

If decimating Rey at Survivor Series wasnt enough to draw him legit heel heat, then a feud with Kane certainly won't do it. But with

*SPOILERS*

Batista becoming the new number 1 contender tonight during the SD! tapings, then I see Undertakers mix into this brewing conflict between Kane and Dave being the factor that Batista needs to draw real heat. And when he gets it, he'll definitely be Smackdowns biggest asset, in my opinion.

 

[MachoManiac]

I agree with what Slyfox696 touched on just a little bit. I think part of the problem is that people are tired of seeing Mysterio face and beat the big boys. Don't get me wrong, I like Rey-Rey, but me and my buddies are so sick of watching him beat big guys like Kane and Mike Knox. If there are a lot of people with these feelings about Mysterio, then that might be why Batista isn't getting much heat from the crowd.

I know when we watched Survivor Series, there was a big cheer in my living room when Batista beat Mysterio because we all had the same gut feeling that it would be a typical Rey vs. a big guy match that would see Rey pick up the win. We were all surprised and happy with the outcome.

I personally doubt having Batista face Kane will get Batista a lot of heat. Think about it, Kane is one of the least sympathetic guys they have, plus he lost to Mysterio on several occasions. Why should anybody care if Batista and Kane fight?

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Ol' Macho Maniac stole some of my thought on this. Many are tired of seeing Rey Mysterio. I hate saying that because I enjoyed a lot of his lucha libre style in the old ECW and in WCW. But to me, I think he's burned us out on his act. I think he's taking time off now due to his knee, so he can build some momentum again and maybe get some sort of a fresh start.

But as far as Batista's concerned? He's not doing 'heel' things. As Sly was saying, a 'heel' lies, cheats, and blames everyone else except himself. Batista's doing one of those things. In order for Batista to be a heel, he's got to hit Kane with a chair during his match, or hold his tights for a pin. Or if he loses, blame someone else for it. That's what heels do. Batista's just being a bully. Stone Cold was a bully. Even The Rock bullied Mankind during their time. The thing is, the heel way to go is to find ways to win that aren't morally right, or aren't fair. Batista has never done this. He's always the hired gun. Never has he been a full fledged heel before. On his own. So this is all new to him and in a couple of weeks, I think we'll get it.

 

[Pestilence]

Working with a super-face like 'Taker will definitely bring him heat. If someone shows such anger against a superstar you can't hate, how can ya like him? He WILL get heat sooner than later.

 

[PopeIsPimping]

Let's not forget, Batista has been one of the top faces for years, one can't expect the whole audience to forget that overnight. The other thing is that people like to see Batista hurt people - whether that be someone like JBL, or a babyface like Rey, the audience isn't gonna hate Batista for being 'the animal'. Heels and faces have to work together, and until Batista starts in a program with someone like the Undertaker, he's still going to be cheered. I for one find Batista more interesting now as a heel, and hopefully before long the audience will follow along

 

[Toroc102]

Batista is not your typical heel, he has to kickass or it wouldn't make sense, I mean he's one of the top 5 biggest guys on the entire roster and hes played a badass role for 5 years up until now, what we're just supposed to forget all that in one month?

He did good with Rey Mysterio but he didn't get heel heat(I think Sly was being more nitpicky on this than anything, were on an IWC forum not a bookers forum, it was all in the context), because I don't think anyone's really surprised anymore when Rey gets beat by a Main Eventer, its basically the same role he plays anytime. He's a giant killer when he's facing giant jobbers, and a jobber to the stars when he's facing Main-Event big guys. I agree that he'll probably get a lot more heat when he faces UT, but if he's still going to be a monster it'll be hard not to cheer him on, and how do you turn him into a coward?

Either way, I don't think it matters, as long as he gets a big pop from the crowd, what matters is that his character is more refreshing right now, if he plays the heel and the crowd still cheers him on I see no problem with that. Never did The Rock any harm.

If you really want him to draw heel heat he probably has to start mocking the fans a lot and still be a bully and beat up people smaller than him, typical shit, but being a total coward is probably not ever going to work for him. He could start using weapons put that usually gets someone over as a face as well. His best bet is being a Brock lesnar type heel, but even then him kicking asses in matches will probably still get him face cheers.

 

[Freddy4190]

I don't care if he can't draw heel heat. They've completely rejuvenated his career and made him relelvant once more by turning him heel. There was absolutely nothing else for Batista to do. He played that "Good guy, defend my friend" shit to DEATH. Batista fits the bill as a giant, angry, pissed off Animal perfectly. I love everything about it. Maybe he'll become stale in a few more months, then he'll draw some heel heat.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Batista beating up Rey just doesn't make him look like a strong heel. Rey is half his size, and he comes off looking like a school-yard bully when he beats down MR. 619. Now during his heel days in Evolution, and when he turned face on Triple H, it was believable because they were threats.

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You see when he was destroying people who looked like threats, it made him out to be monster. Batista destroying Rey doesn't make him look dominat. It just makes him look like a petty bully.

But we have to give this time. He's got Kane and possibly Taker to feud with, so let's not reach for the white flag yet on the heel turn.

 

[Toroc102]

But we're talking about him turning heel here, being a bully to Rey Mysterio usually gets that done.

If he goes out and beats the crap out of people that are actually threats, thats just going to get him more of a face pop than anything. He's going to have to do something underhanded and devious and probably unrelated to his matches to really get that heel reaction. Not that it really matters, if the crowd continues to cheer him as a face thats fine, at least he won;t be stale anymore.

 

[slimmshady]

Batista can't draw heat because this is exactly what the fans want. They've been asking for a Batista heel turn for a very long time and why should they boo him if that's what they wanted?

 

[gully side adidja]

whoever thinks batista can't draw heel heat is wrong, all he has to do is make his roided up self attack and bully every single small wrestler on smackdown, and do it with that air of arrogance he had with mysterio, that will work

 

[Sasori]

Excuse me, did you not here all those boos when he laid out 'Taker and Mysterio??? Definete massacre, and he's becoming more of a coward 'coz he to 'Taker out from the back and blindsided him, not to mention he used a chair. Also he backed down to Kane a man who he has like 1,000,000 (Batista)-0(Kane) record with. So I dont know what you have been smoking but Batista is doing a decent job getting those boos.

 

[Super Crazy]

Batista is doing an okay job at best. He isn't drawing tons of heat, but just enough so that the audience watching at home can feel it too. On a personal note here, watching Smackdown this past Friday, I noticed that when Batista took off his shirt, the crowd was cheering him at that particular moment. What a great job of garnering heel heat he does.

I believe to garner more heel heat, if he should become champion, he should start attacking the fans, not necessarily physically, but essentially doing what Jericho does, just not with all the same wording, and maybe physically hurting a " fan " every so often wouldn't be such a bad thing.