(Backstage) Politicians vs. (Talented) Wrestlers

[S.J. Maximus]

We've seen many people rise to the top of the WWE over the years, some of them more talented than others in specific aspects of wrestling. Backstage however, we're all aware of the politics that occur backstage and how that has robbed us from some great matches over the years (Hogan/Hart, Hogan/Austin, Kennedy/anyone in the WWE after Orton whined)

So I'm asking what does it take to reach the top of the mountain? Is it a successful politician who can kiss up to Vince and coast on having no talent? Or is it the remarkable guy who oozes charisma and gives a 5-star effort every night without caring too much about the politics backstage?

IMO, the politician is the more successful wrestler (unfortunately). The Miz's whole reign is predicated on the fact that Vince loves his dedication to the business, not due to Miz's in-ring ability because he barely has any. I also feel like the Rock, who was more agile and charismatic from 2000-2002 should've surpassed Austin as the company's top face but Austin was too selfish to relinquish his spot.

Backstage Politicans? or the Charismatic Wrestlers?

 

[CelticCorey]

If you are good enough, you will get your main event spot. Sure politicking your way to the top seems like the way to go. But the Rock was no politician and eventually got the top spot. I have never known a Benoit or an Angle to politic. Miz and Cena may have gotten pushed due to hard work but I don't know them using backstage politics that much. Sin Cara will eventually get to the top and I don't see him being the politician type. Backstage politics may get you to the top and keep you there but if you are good enough and over enough you don't need to politic.

 

[Carpathian Florist]

Well Cena and Miz seem to be very high up in the company and they're both noted for their dedication to Vince and his company. Sheamus, deserving or not, is close with Triple H and got a big push... which kinda fizzled out before it got going actually, which I think sucks, but that's for another thread.

I think the case of DDP fits in here, he took a massive pay cut to wrestle for the WWE rather than sit out his WCW contract like the other top stars of that company. What happens? He gets completely buried for it. Around the same time it was mentioned that a lot of former WCW wrestlers didn't display the proper etiquette backstage and suffered for it. Respect is respect, but look at where they came from... I doubt much of it was unintentional, it was just because of where they came from the whole sucking up to the lockerroom wasn't really prevalent.
It was reported that allegedly CM Punk lost favour with people because he didn't dress correctly outside of the ring... Why would that really matter??
CM Punk is a great talent and is obviously over as hell, whether he's playing a heel or a face. I think the smart politician will beat out the genuine talent everytime.

 

[TheHitMark-SirJoseOle]

We've seen many people rise to the top of the WWE over the years, some of them more talented than others in specific aspects of wrestling. Backstage however, we're all aware of the politics that occur backstage and how that has robbed us from some great matches over the years (Hogan/Hart, Hogan/Austin, Kennedy/anyone in the WWE after Orton whined)

So I'm asking what does it take to reach the top of the mountain? Is it a successful politician who can kiss up to Vince and coast on having no talent? Or is it the remarkable guy who oozes charisma and gives a 5-star effort every night without caring too much about the politics backstage?

IMO, the politician is the more successful wrestler (unfortunately). The Miz's whole reign is predicated on the fact that Vince loves his dedication to the business, not due to Miz's in-ring ability because he barely has any. I also feel like the Rock, who was more agile and charismatic from 2000-2002 should've surpassed Austin as the company's top face but Austin was too selfish to relinquish his spot.

Backstage Politicans? or the Charismatic Wrestlers?

Boss, we're only as aware of all these potential matchups as the dirt sheets of yellow journalism want to tell us. I wholeheartedly agree that egos exist in wrestling, hell they exist in every part of life period. However, in cases like this there's no way for any of us on this forum to really know what goes on backstage.

The fact is that if every rumor about what goes on backstage were to be completely true, then someone like Vince would be ran out of business, there's only so much a businessman like him is going to handle and in the end I think more of the decisions on who gets pushed and who doesn't is predicated on who he thinks will generate the top dollar.

 

[bigbootydaddyV]

The miz and cena are BOTH charismatic wrestlers... just because they bust their ass and live and breathe wwe doesn't make them kiss asses... they are where they are on talent whereas guys like HHH have used backstage politics their whole career. I would never put cena/miz in the same book as the kliq (not that you did, just saying those are the politicians and cena miz are workers imo). The kliq all had talent but they kept themselves at the top at the expense of others. i think the politicians can stay in the game long term but in the end it's not about ass kissing it's about money and who can make the most for vince. The only reason hhh stays around so long is because there is a guy on the other side making the money and that big nosed bastard gets to stick around (yes i am not a fan of trips at all) when there are two guys making big bucks hhh is not in the main event like when it was rock austin or last year when u had hbk there to face taker u had hhh feuding with sheamus on hte mid card instead.

 

[H33LTurn]

The politicians are always going to get the upper hand when it comes to success in the WWE. Vince wants a guy whos going to be assertive so that i case aything happens he can preserve his spot in the company. Guys who are able to get away withe the politics are guys that Vince depends on. Its always good to be talented in both sections, both in front of and behind the camera. When guys can win over the boss and the fans theres really nothing that can stand in the way of their success. But to answer your question, a guy who can manipulate things behind the scenes with his mouth is always going to come out o top against a guy who wrestles good but doesnt know how to defend himself backstage because lets face it, anyone can wrestle, but not many people can carry the company.

 

[OlderFan]

I agree the suck-ups go further quicker and stay that way for longer. The really funny thing is that bosses - and this includes all bosses not just VKM - seem to forget, at least for a while, that those who will kiss up to you are looking to feather their own nest and as quick as they will kiss your ass, they will blow you off, too.

 

[blkshp]

I agree with point on you can't believe everything you read on dirt sheets. For example, yes Hogan and Bret never really got along, but Hogan and Austin's beef went back to WCW. Add in the fact that Austin was in major pain at that time, which he admitted made him an ass, killed any chance of that match happening in any way. Orton and Anderson(Kennedy) was a little different. Do you think if Anderson was one of Vince's guys he wouldve been let go? I think Vince gave him his shot( he was Mr. Money in the Bank after all), Anderson kept getting hurt, had a drug isssue, and then Orton (and some say Cena) didn't want to work with him anymore, too many strikes PLUS complaints by two top stars led to the axe imo. But in the end politics mean nothing if you can't get it done as a worker. The kliq were all politicians, but they were all top notch talent too. Same for Cena and Miz, some will hate these guys forever, but they're two of the best WWE have right now, so if they're politicians too, they're just playing the game. Good for them.

 

[Iversen]

People act like backstage politics is unique to wrestling. You do realize that it happens in every company in the world? Being mates with the boss is never going to do you any harm.

The answer to your question is a bit of both. Take a guy like Sheamus and say another big guy like Zeke Jackson. I would say they're both good big men or at least have the potential to be, Sheamus is maybe a bit better on the mic but we don't actually get to see Jackson on the mic so we don't know what he's capable of. Therefore why is Sheamus pushed? Because he's smart enough to be mates with HHH, thats the cynical way to look at it for all I know they may genuinely have just become mates. They are both quite talented but not everyone can be pushed so the guys thats mates with one of the bosses gets the nod.

 

[TheLoneCharles]

I agree with Iversen, every company in the world has politics, and only those that know how to brown-nose are more likely to get an opportunity.

It's all about who you know. If you happen to be friends with the boss and halfway competent, 9 times out of ten you will get promoted over the workhorse that goes to work and keeps to himself.

 

[Supertrick]

The Most Successful people in wrestling usual have a mixture of both.

Look at the Kliq for instance. Triple H, HBK , Nash and Hall all had the talent to be at the top of the card and they got there quickly because of there backstage politicking. But there was also Sean Waltman apart of the Kliq. Im not a huge fan of Sean so i may be bias but look he was always in a job yeah through his buddies but the best he ever got was a Tag team championship in WWF that is just a bout it.

I also think that people are being harsh to Miz and Cena. in ANY BUSINESS if you see someone working there heart out and look like they have a great passion for the business then they will be a front runner for the promotion and in the WWE that means being one of the top dogs in the company.

 

[blackmetalbuick]

There's no real right answer to this, you see guys succeeding any number of ways. You CAN make it to the top on ability alone without being a snake backstage, you CAN play your cards right backstage and make it further than your natural ability ever would have allowed, and you can do some of both. Obviously somewhere in the middle is the best. It's sad when great wrestlers go to waste maybe because they think they're being righteous by not getting into politics backstage, or they claim to already be happy with their mediocre spot on the card. In a business so based on ego, it's a fine line to walk, you want to be backstage pushing for the things you deserve but you don't want the rest of the locker room hating you for being self-serving. Take a guy like Mick Foley, obviously not the greatest performer, but according to his books at least, he wasn't afraid to talk to Vince, he wasn't afraid to pitch his own ideas for his character and disagree when something sounded terrible, but I don't think he is viewed as some horrible backstage manipulator.

 

[deadtaker]

Politicking happens everywhere. The people in every business get promoted because the boss likes them and not always because there work is the best. Some do it better than others. Cena and the Miz are noted as the hard working suck ups where they know Vince will give them top spot if they do every event they can. Are they the best guys in te company wrestling wise. Probably not.

Other guys get there on pure look over talent and politics. Hulk Hogan is prime example. His in ring skill as terrible but he was over like only a handful of people. He made sure he kept as many people down as long as possible.

The Ultimate Warrior is another guy who had the look and Bad in ring skill and he played the politics wrong in WWE. It cost him what should have been many years at the top instead he was gone after a few years.

Others got to the top based on Talent like Chris Benoit, Chris Jericho, Edge, Rey Mysterio. The main thing with those guys is they are smaller guys who even if they politicked a lot wouldn't get a shot unless they were just better than the rest.

It happens everywhere. People will do whatever it takes to advance in any business. That means sucking up to the boss, knocking down other people, and focussing on yourself.

 

[c-note]

This whole debate imo is ridiculous....do people play politics?? Of course...but the fact is that if a person can draw and is main event level type person, then he's gonna get his spot...do having friends in high places help?? Of course...but act like all of u wouldn't do the same..if a person has "it" he's gonna get his spot...a bunch of these guys that I see the internet sayin deserves a push ended up in tna and haven't drawn a dime...and really of all the guys the kliq "held down", how many really would have done anything anyway?? Vince runs the company and at the end of the day, what's good for the E is what he's gonna do...

 

[Brian in Austin]

We've seen many people rise to the top of the WWE over the years, some of them more talented than others in specific aspects of wrestling. Backstage however, we're all aware of the politics that occur backstage and how that has robbed us from some great matches over the years (Hogan/Hart, Hogan/Austin, Kennedy/anyone in the WWE after Orton whined)

So I'm asking what does it take to reach the top of the mountain? Is it a successful politician who can kiss up to Vince and coast on having no talent? Or is it the remarkable guy who oozes charisma and gives a 5-star effort every night without caring too much about the politics backstage?

IMO, the politician is the more successful wrestler (unfortunately). The Miz's whole reign is predicated on the fact that Vince loves his dedication to the business, not due to Miz's in-ring ability because he barely has any. I also feel like the Rock, who was more agile and charismatic from 2000-2002 should've surpassed Austin as the company's top face but Austin was too selfish to relinquish his spot.

Backstage Politicans? or the Charismatic Wrestlers?

To a certain degree I'm sure they all politic (or advocate) for themselves, possible storylines, feuds, etc. It's natural that people in a competitive environment are going to do their best to convince management why they are better suited for the next level than their rival is. It's the natural process of competitive working environments. So I don't see it as "politicking" in the negative sense of the word, but rather advocating for yourself to get your opportunity.

In the end if you are good enough and get your chance to prove it, you'll stay in that spot. But if not, then you probably didn't deserve it in the first place.

 

[wushady]

I believe most wrestlers have to bust their ass to get over with the fans. Then earn their main event status, before gaining any political power. Austin, HBK, HHH, Cena, The Rock all had or have a lot f stroke with Vince. But it wasn't always like that they all were low card wrestlers that earned their status. We all have heard the stories how hated the Miz was at first and he obviously proved himself as well.

I just read in Jericho's new book how he saw something in a rookie named John Cena. When he told Vince that he would be a star one day ans Vince laughed at him and said he didn't see anything special about Cena. He also had to work his ass off to prove himself. Now he probably has more stroke with Vince then anyone.

Even The Rock was hated by HBK who had a lot of political stroke and HHH who only had stroke back then since he was HBK's best friend. He also over came that. I don't believe all wrestlers become stars do to politics or ass kissing, but in some cases it's good to have friends with power like HHH for example.

I have no doubt once a wrestler does make it big he gains lots of political power. There's been many stories of guys like Austin, Hart and HBK refusing to job or drop the title. Being a company man definitely helps, but if the crowd doesn't react to them. I don't see them becoming stars regards of how much ass they kiss.

 

[BearJew13]

If that kiss-ass gets that top spot but can't wrestle nor handle the mic, he's not gunna get ratings nor PPV buys. This will turn Vince off of the superstar and will lose their spot. Of course they will get the opportunity, but they will not be successful.

 

[Long Island Iced WXYZ]

We've seen many people rise to the top of the WWE over the years, some of them more talented than others in specific aspects of wrestling. Backstage however, we're all aware of the politics that occur backstage and how that has robbed us from some great matches over the years (Hogan/Hart, Hogan/Austin, Kennedy/anyone in the WWE after Orton whined)

So I'm asking what does it take to reach the top of the mountain? Is it a successful politician who can kiss up to Vince and coast on having no talent? Or is it the remarkable guy who oozes charisma and gives a 5-star effort every night without caring too much about the politics backstage?

IMO, the politician is the more successful wrestler (unfortunately). The Miz's whole reign is predicated on the fact that Vince loves his dedication to the business, not due to Miz's in-ring ability because he barely has any. I also feel like the Rock, who was more agile and charismatic from 2000-2002 should've surpassed Austin as the company's top face but Austin was too selfish to relinquish his spot.

Backstage Politicans? or the Charismatic Wrestlers?

This one is easy. Charismatic wrestler.

Let's take a look right now, the top guy is John Cena. He's charismatic and a great wrestler/entertainer and he doesn't play politics.

He's put over numerous guys, look what he did for The Miz, and he made it to the top spot.

On the other hand you have guys like Shawn Michaels and Triple H who politicked and yes they're stars but neither one of them are the star that Cena is.

And as for The Mz. Disagree on your statement that "The Miz's whole reign is predicated on the fact that Vince loves his dedication to the business, not due to Miz's in-ring ability because he barely has any."

When has "in-ring ability" been all that matters? Never! Miz got to where he is by:

a) Yes, being a great spokesman for the company.

b) And also because he gets a great reaction from fans and he's above average on the mic and he's charismatic.

He couldn't be in the spot that he's in if he didn't have talent. Come on!

 

[Jack-Hammer]

There's always going to be politicking in wrestling. Always has been and there always will be to one degree or another. This isn't something that's unique to the WWE or to wrestling in and of itself, as other posters have already pointed out.

When it comes to stuff like who "deserves" their spot or who only got their due to playing politics, it's a subject in which we really don't have much of a solid clue as to what's what. We read about all sorts of rumors from the dirtsheets and various websites and sometimes they turn out to be true. Sometimes, they're about as far from factual as it can get.

A lot of people still insist that nepotism and politics are the primary reasons for Triple H being where he is. Now playing politics might be able to open some doors for you. However, if you've not got the talent, then it's going to become obvious and you're going to find yourself on the way down. Triple H may have used politics as a means of pushing open some doors for himself, which is something every big name has done at one time or another I'd imagine, but the fact that he was talented is what kept him in his spot. If Trips hadn't been making Vince money, if he hadn't pulled in ratings, if he hadn't have kept fans interested in what programs he worked then he wouldn't have been a 13 time World Champion and a main event level talent for more than a decade.

Politics can play a role but talent is what ultimately is going to keep you afloat. Like everything else in life, however, different people have an idea of what "talent" is. For instance, if you're a wrestler that doesn't flip and flop and fly around all over the place then, to some, you're not a good wrestler. Just because you or I or anyone might not be too wild about a certain wrestler doesn't necessarily mean that it's a point of view held by the majority of WWE viewers. I was never all that crazy about Batista and that seems to be an opinion that was shared by a HUGE portion of internet fans. But the man drew money and at the end of the day, that's what it's supposed to be all about for any wrestling company.

 

[baufan2025]

I'm sure this is going to be an unpopular opinion but I have to stick up for Hogan and his politics. If you know you have a legacy to uphold and that your image is what makes you money then of course you wanna stay on top. You can't wrestle forever so while your there you better do your best to make sure your the top man so you can keep selling the merchandise because that's what you have to live off of when the sport has used you up and you can't get in the ring anymore. So if I'm going to try to keep my image at the top of the game why would I take a dive to some midcard up and comer? Hogan has dropped quite a few matches in his career but they have all usually been to major already established stars.

 

[Chrisx]

Politics can only get you so far if you don't already have the it factor it wont do you much good.Xpac,Goldust,Ted DiBiase Jr. ect know people in the right places but don't/didn't have the complete package.Just like any business you gotta know how to play the game to get what you want, if you gotta play politician by all means do it.Its your lively hood on the line if you don't fight for urself why will anyone else.

Yes knowing people can help but if you don't have it urnot gonna main event.

 

[SomeAreSet]

I wish I could vote for both,because the way I see it,charisma gets you to the top and politics keep you there.Case in point: Hulk Hogan.He was charismatic as hell but we all know how he kept his spot as the top guy in wrestling for 2 decades or so.Stone Cold and the Kliq are other examples.They used their positions as the top guys in the business to try to dictate what went on backstage.I think Triple H is an unfortunate victim.People always say he got to the top by kissing Vince's ass,sleeping with Stephanie and sticking with Shawn Michaels,but you would have to be blind to not see that Triple H is one hell of a wrestler and was easily the most over heel the WWE had in the past 15 years and he was part of some of the most brilliant ideas the WWE has ever produced (DX and Evolution being 2 of them).

Let's be honest,if someone could lick your boot until it shined,but did not have an ounce of talent,he would never get pushed unless you're an imbecile whose only joy in life is having your ego stroked.Vince is obviously not an imbecile.Guys like The Rock and John Cena probably never licked Vince's boots but they got to the top because the fans wanted to see them every week.Vince doesn't need his ego fed by BS,if he did he would probably have buried The Rock the moment he left to become an actor.If people think that so-and-so got to the top by brown-nosing the bigwigs at the back,then you would have to flip through the history books and find one world champion that literally nobody cared for and was so terrible he made everyone switch off the TV.Call me an optimist but I'd like to think every wrestler I've seen become world champion got their spot at the top because they earned it through hard work,dedication,intelligence,being in the right place at the right time,and in some cases *cough* The Miz *cough* willing to be Vince's bitch.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Considering you don't have any political swing if you aren't over, I'd say it's talent.

The REAL question is "Perceived" talent from the IWC (KEWL MOVEZ and SPOTZ) vs actually being talented (getting over).

If you aren't over, you can bitch all you want, Vince won't listen to you because you're costing him money. "Great match" is in the eye of the beholder. Most of the audience wants to see compelling characters, not a spotfest or a headlock clinic.