Attitude Era vs. PG Era

[Poop Master Flex]

This is something I've been thinking of for a while now so I decided to make a thread about it, so lets get to it.

One of the things I often hear from IWC and casual fans alike is how amazing the Attitude Era was and how horrible the current PG era is likewise I hear from some of the more established posters that overall the PG era leaves the Attitude era in the dust. The truth is though both sides of the fence have very good points.

From a match standpoint the PG era destroys the Attitude Era. Although the Attitude Era was filled with memorable, over the top moments the truth is almost every RAW was best watched with your thumb on the fast forward button. 90% of the matches in the Attitude Era were absolute garbage.

I often hear that the only reason the Attitude Era was popular is because of it was so raunchy and in your face. Although some of that is true people the real reason why it was so great isn't because of the raunch moments but it was because of the storyline's and characters the main event provided. At the top you had Stone Cold Steve Austin who had an amazing year and a half feud going on with Vince McMahon. In between you had Austin feud with the likes of Foley, Kane, Undertaker, Triple H and The Rock, there are superheroes that don't have a rogue gallery that good. The Rock became so popular he is now a household name, Triple H became one of the best heels in wrestling, The Undertaker found new life and Foley had some great, violent matches coupled with an intensity in the ring and on the mic rarely found. Then we had Kane who was one of the more memorable characters in wrestling history with a great background story and amazing debut. When you have feuds like Austin vs. McMahon, Undertaker vs. Kane, Undertaker vs. Mankind, Triple H vs. The Rock, The Rock vs. Austin, Austin vs. Triple H, DX vs. N.O.D. its no wonder why the Attitude era is looked back at so fondly. Personally I would take almost any one of these feuds against any feud the WWE has had since HBK vs. Jericho.

A second reason why I think the Attitude Era is remembered is even though it had some brutal moments such as Mae Young giving birth to a hand and Mark Henry admitting to having sex with his sister there was some pretty memorable characters as well that were synonymous with the Attitude Era. Say what you will but one of the worst things with PG today is that so many of their characters are interchangeable and forgettable. In the Attitude Era you had Val Venis, The Godfather, The New Age Outlaws and X-Pac to name a few. Hell, give me D-Lo Brown with a chest protector and he would entertain me more than 90% of the locker room today. Don't get me wrong, between the ropes your average PG guy could give a more entertaining match than your average Attitude guy but I wouldn't miss or barely notice is Swagger got released this week, the only reason I would notice is because of this forum.

The PG Era seems to get the most brunt of criticism but I feel most of that is unfair. A lot of fans started watching wrestling during the Attitude Era which is all fine and good, but what those people need to realize is wrestling today is much more close to how wrestling was when I started watching. The main difference is in the late 90's RAW was less about the wrestling and more about the entertainment/shock value, today's product is more about wrestling so you can't compare the 2, they're apples and oranges. Which era you like depends on how you view wrestling really. If you are more of a traditionalist wrestling fan then chances are PG era is for you. If you don't care much about wrestling and watch it for backstage segments, promo's and pure entertainment value the Attitude era is the way to go.

Personally I can deal with both. I gotta say its nice not having to watch RAW every week fast forwarding through half the program like I did in the 90's. With that said however the entertaining things the Attitude era did have absolutely trumps anything the PG era has done from an entertainment aspect. A lot of times in the PG era I feel very underwhelmed with the product, I didn't have that issue watching the Attitude Era because even if most of RAW sucked, they still did enough to where I HAD to watch next weeks episode. The PG era have overall better RAW's but at the same time they do little to keep you on the edge of your seat and have you clamoring for the next episode of RAW, there have only been a handful of times the PG era has accomplished that for me.

In closing I think moving to the PG era is a great idea and move towards what wrestling is supposed to be but there are some things I think can be learned:

1) Create better/more intriguing storyline's.
2) Establish unique characters people can get behind.
3) Establish the main event better.
4) Push Superstars the right way.
5) STOP RUSHING EVERYTHING!!!

*Notice there is no mention of more bloodshed and violence in this list*

Add these things with the the PG era and you got yourself probably the best product WWE has produced.

A little long winded but personally that's what I feel. What about everyone else?

 

[braveh]

I don't think the Attitude era is very coherent. First you had the early phase when Vince Russo was writing the show 97-99, then you had a second phase when it all blew up and went through the roof, then you had the late phase with all the WCW guys coming in.

Likewise I don't know when the PG era started. 03-04 you had the brand extension and I thought that was some great years...but that was nothing like 2009-2012

 

[SickJames]

Sick of the argument that Attitude Era wrestling sucked. Not true, it was better. That's no better than people who bash ECW for garbage wrestling when they had great in-ring wrestlers like Benoit, Tazz, Rey Mysterio, Lita, Lance Storm, and more.

I mean Kurt Angle, Benoit, Y2J and Regal are just a few of the great techs during that time and so there was the best time in wrestling. It was used as WWE's response to the MNW, which is the biggest period in wrestling period and most popular. The storylines AND wrestling were great whereas now you have great wrestlers but no great consistent storylines like in The Attitude Era and let's be real and look at how limited they are especially at the most babiest of the PG stuff in 2008 and 09.


Orton/Hunter was as Attitude as it got for 09.


Attitude Era is often bashed for its over the topness, but thats a joke as thats what ppl loved and thats the plus it had along with wrestling. We had both great pure wrestling and hardcore wrestling, but today we have unrealistic crappy hardcore wrestling, THAT sucks. But ppl try and act like ALL it was or all they could do back then was blade and throw punches and brawl. If thats all you got from that era then you werent paying attention


It's stupid to deny it was the greatest era as it provided the most variety having something for everyone. Vince always says it's a variety show but it lacks giving something to everyone today. Families had no problems enjoying wrestling back then, forget the over the top parents who complain. Lots of families would go no matter what and it had its biggest ratings back then so they watched too.


Divas were at their peak and were respected wrestlers that could be sexy as well without it hurting their credibility. People act as if bra and panties is a bad thing, it's not. You have Tuxedo matches for guys and they wont be looked at any different. Trish, Lita, lots of women who could wrestle could be equally as sexy which women have always been in anything and ppl cared about the division.


ppl complain about two guys being thrown together in the tag division, but thats bullshit. Sure the tag division also at its peak had great tag teams that were together from the start, but there were quite a few thrown together names that made for great tag action too, Kurt and Benoit and The Power Trip as well as The Rock & Sock Connection just to name a few.


Attitude just beats what we have today, there's nothing wrong with Attitude, it's better all around from a legitimacy standpoint, now look what HIAC has been reduced too, the biggest match from that era. Look at how silly it is to not have blood when it actually is realistic. Look at how stupid it is to not have guys be able to simply say ass when it's okay on network television. We arent saying cock here, just ass

Even in the DX speech they said they would only use the words Ass, Damn and Hell (from the 9pm to 10pm hour) and from the 10pm hour to 11pm hour... they would only use the words Ass, Damn, Hell, and Bitch.

Dont see why we cant have those even. Ppl act like wrestling shouldnt be allowed all of a sudden to do things everything else does in entertainment as if its not widely accepted or as if ALL art does things even if they dont NEED it to make it a wonderful piece of art.

 

[HBsam31]

I loved the Attitude Era. I was 17-21 during those years, and it just fit so well with what we were feeling at that age. Austin beating up his boss really struck a cord with us. I mean what teenagers didn't want to lay out a teacher of his or hers at one point. You had DX running wild with highschool humor. Everything they did pretty much hit it with that age group. It brought in a lot of causal fans as all my friends that I watched it with then never watched after. I remember Raw being an event each week for us, not just a tv show. All that being said when I rewatch Attitude era stuff on dvd these days i find the matches were severely lacking. Some of the Raw shows would probably be hard for me to get through now. The content was much better than today as we had distinct characters, not the interchangeable characters of today. The matches however are far and away better to. There are exceptions of course, but for the most part the in ring action is better today. I can't really say one is better than the other as each had its strengths and weaknesses, but it's hard to argue the business the Attitude Era did. Today, they need to develop characters more. Stop hot shotting people straight to the top, and they need to have patience developing storyline. I miss the days of long drawn out stories. If this era would take on some of the good characteristics of the Attitude Era we could have some really good stuff going on today.

 

[WADM]

I find correct that they dont wanna leave kids behind, but is it correct to leave lifelong fans out? Its often refered that the attitude era programing was to much sexual content and unpolite speach. Its a valid point, mostly if you want to give kids a ''good example'', but in my opinion that doesnt have to come in cost of a good show. Its not about really having the show in one way or the other, but myself and many other ( hardcore fans ) find impossible to watch the current shows. When i was a kid i watched every single match, i knew all the names and moves. WWE was technically all i wanted to watch.

Now i see Santino, Hornswoggle, AJ she is a total disaster... There is no need to be unproper words ( shit, fuck.. if you wanna name a few ) either sexual explicit content, being it just an extra. But table matches, more varied competitions, storylines ( you find the same person calling 20 guys his best friend in the same year ). Using the example of the tables, it entertains hardcore fans and i dont see how is it ''too violent for children''.

Some will say that they are making the kids grow with WWE, but then these will grow, and you either give them a a content for their age ( forgetting about the new kids ) or you stick to the same content and lose them with time.

In TNA you find a very well used roster, wich is often an example of how modern wrestling can alternate from an adult product and a grown kids entertainment.

What the WWE plans on doing remains a mistery for me, and it may very probably finish in its extintion. Otherwise if TNA gets the exposure and recognition i beleave it deserves, WWE will die, wich personally I beleave it didnt happen due to its market valuable name only.

Proof: I put a small number of children from various ages ( 7 to 12 ), big fans of WWE, made them watch one TNA show and some old fights on youtube.. the result is now i cant turn off internet becouse they wouldnt leave me alone, they like the matches. A lil ''child play'' its fine if you back it up with a great wrestling match. But making the ''child play'' your maing thing and declining level wrestling your secondary show, Its prety bad.

Its just an opinion. I built it from observations and my own personal experience and point of view. But I could easily be mistaken.

I hope you can find this somehow a valid point.

WADM

 

[Mr. HD]

From a match standpoint the PG era destroys the Attitude Era. Although the Attitude Era was filled with memorable, over the top moments the truth is almost every RAW was best watched with your thumb on the fast forward button. 90% of the matches in the Attitude Era were absolute garbage.

I agree to an extent. The way WWE does matches then and now are different. The matches WWE have on now are slower, more fluid and more methodical.

Attitude Era matches were still great, but most of them were fast paced, and a tad bit sloppy. And 9 times out of 10, they mostly end in brawls. But I wouldn't say 90% were garbage. You had guys like Rock, Val Venis, Kurt Angle, Jericho, Benoit, Eddie, HHH, Austin, Test and others putting on some great matches.

The PG Era seems to get the most brunt of criticism but I feel most of that is unfair. A lot of fans started watching wrestling during the Attitude Era which is all fine and good, but what those people need to realize is wrestling today is much more close to how wrestling was when I started watching. The main difference is in the late 90's RAW was less about the wrestling and more about the entertainment/shock value, today's product is more about wrestling so you can't compare the 2, they're apples and oranges. Which era you like depends on how you view wrestling really. If you are more of a traditionalist wrestling fan then chances are PG era is for you. If you don't care much about wrestling and watch it for backstage segments, promo's and pure entertainment value the Attitude era is the way to go.

I don't know about this one man. One of the main reasons RAW even went three hours is to push more social media, campaigns, tout videos, etc. And if they do have time for wrestling matches, most of them barely reach five minutes. You'll have one match every hour that exceeds five minutes. They spend more time promoting Twitter, Tout, and doing hugging segments than focusing on wrestling matches.

Even before RAW went three hours, they had that nonsense where they'd have a Celebrity GM every week. I'd say they're focusing HEAVILY on entertainment more so than the Attitude Era did. I mean, it's no coincidence, they now go by World Wrestling Entertainment and want their superstars to be called "Entertainers" and not "Professional Wrestlers."


Except for these points, I agree with everything you said. You pretty much hit the nail on the head with what you were saying.

I don't think the Attitude era is very coherent. First you had the early phase when Vince Russo was writing the show 97-99, then you had a second phase when it all blew up and went through the roof, then you had the late phase with all the WCW guys coming in.

Likewise I don't know when the PG era started. 03-04 you had the brand extension and I thought that was some great years...but that was nothing like 2009-2012

Vince Russo was writing the shows for the WWF, but what people fail to bring up is that EVERYTHING went through Mr. McMahon. He had the final say. So, most of Russo's nonsense made TV and some didn't.

When Russo went to WCW and didn't have anybody watching over his shoulder, things like David Arquette becoming WCW Champion happened. I don't care how desperate Vince was, I don't think he'd have a Celebrity hold his top Championship.

And I wanna say PG started around late 2007. From 2002-2006, WWE was still booking an edgy product. Not as extreme as the Attitude Era, but it was still edgy and entertaining.

I think Chris Benoit dying was the last straw for the media. WWE was already getting negative press for steroid accusations, the Owen Hart incident, Eddie's death, among others. I think what happened with Benoit drew WAY too much negative press. Combine that with the fact that Linda was running for Senate and if she was linked to something that had nude women, blood, and cursing on, it wouldn't have worked out well in her favor.



As far as where I stand, I'm gonna make this short and sweet.

The Attitude Era is better and it's not even close.

As far as matches go, the PG Era has the slight edge because the matches are slower, and more fluid. But as far as marketable characters, storylines, promos, and overall atmosphere and shock value go, Attitude Era wins every category in spades. The PG Era lacks in every single one of these categories.

It's not even the BIG things that people might bring up like Austin getting run over, or the 6 Man Hell in a Cell match at Armageddon. It's the little things the Attitude Era did that made me love it as a kid.

The dimly lit arenas, the LOUD crowds, the intensity in superstars voices when they cut promos on each other to make us believe that they really hated each other, the way they would build up a story for EVERY division to make us care about everybody equally. I mean at one point, The New Age Outlaws were getting Rock and Stone Cold pops. Don't believe me? Then check this out:

[YOUTUBE]N--R7TXtF_Y[/YOUTUBE]



And then we have the commentary. JR and King were THE team for the Attitude Era. Certain moments wouldn't be the same if JR and King weren't on the call. Moments like these for instance:

[YOUTUBE]gRiM-LyhqcM[/YOUTUBE]


That concludes where I stand with Attitude vs PG. Great thread. I've been waiting for this for a while now.

 

[GrandSword]

They say a picture says a thousands words...

However if I could be serious for a moment... there are a lot of differences that need to be considered when a comparison is taking place. For example, the size of the WWF during the Attitude era, is nowhere near as what is today. Today, with WCW out of business, the WWE's roster is twice the size as it used to be, meaning they have to concentrate on more characters and angles, but still only have a certain amount of spots for their pay-offs (ppv) which can dilute much of what is seen on tv over Raw and SD.

Of course there was the crash booking style with almost every match ending in a dq/brawl, and it being some sort of stipulation. But the talent was so strong as there was so much experienced wrestlers to draw from once again a by-product of having two major companies. Now the typical WWE superstar comes off an assembly line, although they have branched out to RoH lately.

Also today's product seems to be about bringing in the star power of yester year, instead of building on what they had in front of them and promoting who they had already. The AE pushed guys like HHH and Foley through the roof, but now Vince keeps bringing in guys like Rock and Lesnar to sell their ppvs. Not pushing the ones they have to the next level as they have no confidence in them.

And I think that is where there could be a problem. PG era doesn't seem to want to pull the trigger their talent. Although it seems like more guys than ever are getting world titles, they don't stay at the top long and don't receive a consistent push someone like Triple H received when he was breaking out.

For example, Dolph Ziggler is one of the most athletic guys I've seen and he's not bad on the mic. He could eb the next Shawn Michaels if they would just let him take off and get some big wins, much like HBK got when he was breaking out. The AE allowed their performers to be the top guys, PG era should try and do the same as Cena could get injured tomorrow and then what happens?