At least Cena didn't bleed, piss or puke

[Bernkastel]

Brock is arguably the biggest draw in UFC history.

The UFC is the UFC. It's not the WWE.

It's hard to say he isn't a draw at all, numbers do improve, people want to see him.

It's pretty easy when to say that he doesn't when A.) the WWE is a drawing brand and B.) Brock isn't bringing in huge amounts of revenue from ticket sales. He isn't even a full time worker. And you expect him to draw gates? How laughable.

Now whether he's a huge draw is debatable but he's a draw none the less.

He moves the revenue needle about as much as anyone else in the company not named Cena. And even Cena isn't the draw that he once was.

He's covered by Espn, and TMZ.

ESPN only covers legit sports and TMZ once covered Jack Swagger.

Brock's fame doesn't depend on the WWE, no matter what he's done his name has been news since he was in college. Not something easy to do. So Yeah I'd say he's a draw.

That doesn't make someone a draw. Just because people recognize him doesn't mean they'll watch him wrestle. WWE is a household name known to most living, breathing people. But clearly not everyone in the USA wants to watch their product.

Yeah and that's a good thing, I don't know how that's supposed to be bad.

Never said it was bad. All I said is that he's a transitional champion whose reign probably won't be remembered years from now. Thanks for agreeing.

I wouldn't say Brock doesn't love the business. Honestly, I never thought that.

Clearly he doesn't have the motivation to commit to the business that others have. WWE has recognized he's better suited to put someone else over than to be their star attraction. I'm sure Brock knows this too.

That's the dumbest reason to end the streak like ever. Brock was already a credible threat, he beat cena half to death in their first match. Beating Taker didn't make Brock credible, it made him unbeatable atm.

Brock was not a credible threat to Cena at that moment. Not even close. He had just fucking lost to the guy. WWE put him over Taker to make him look unbeatable to justify him going over Cena. Otherwise it would just look stupid.

I don't know if I agree with that. Does Brock move the needle as much as those guys? No but he does move the needle now. I think summerslam will show that. I think WM 31 will show that.

WWE wouldn't make any more or less money with Brock on the card or not. They're a drawing brand. PPV's, especially WM will make a set amount of money regardless.

We both know Lesnar isn't going full time. He will remain a part time worker and will defend the belt rarely while Lesnar gets the schedule he wants. And WWE can afford to have their champion do this because they don't need his star power.

If they did he'd be a full time worker defending the belt every PPV til Mania.

 

[L@RISANO]

After the performance Reigns put on tonight, I don't see him winning the title even at Mania. It's pretty clear that Orton carried that whole match, and I can't see Lesnar doing that on the grand stage that is Wrestlemania.

Reigns needs a lot more experience under his belt before he meets Lesnar. And that leaves basically no one to challenge Lesnar if Reigns is the next big thing. The next few months will be interesting to say the least on what they do with both the titles and Reigns's push.

I am sure that was Reigns' first ever PPV Singles match in his career.


Sure,it wasn't the best and Randy carried most of it(obviously he was because he is the more experienced guy), but I feel WWE Creative haven't been helping him much tbh with a moveset that is very limited and some very awful scripted promos(watch last SmackDown and see the difference between the part with the Miz and then when he talked about Orton and how he respected him).


Also, I don't believe being put in a feud with Kane and Orton has helped Reigns at all, whilst Ambrose and Rollins got to continue the Shield aftermath feud with Reigns hardly ever acknowledging it at all since they seperated...


All in all, beating Orton was the step in the right direction for his build and it was a good experienced worker to start him off in Singles on PPV. There is still around 6+ months before WM31, so I wouldn't drop the ball as yet with Roman as he is definitely improving, though I feel Creative haven't exactly been his best friend in terms of his handling as a Singles guy,contrary to popular opinion.



Also;
It says something that whilst Roman Reigns has been feuding with Kane and Orton, that his best moments have come in segments that have been with Other superstars...most notably, fans have responded pretty well to his staredowns with Triple H and also his couple of segments with John Cena.

 

[Sedated]

The UFC is the UFC. It's not the WWE.

No shit? Doesn't change the fact that UFC demonstrated the extreme drawing power Brock Lesnar is capable of.

It's pretty easy when to say that he doesn't when A.) the WWE is a drawing brand and B.) Brock isn't bringing in huge amounts of revenue from ticket sales. He isn't even a full time worker. And you expect him to draw gates? How laughable.

Ticket sales? Who is talking about ticket sales? You can't judge Lesnar's drawing power based on ticket sales for the WWE. You would look at ratings and buy rates. Last time I looked there was an increase in both buy rates and ratings whenever Lesnar was around. Last time I looked at the numbers you could make a solid argument that Lesnar is currently a bigger draw than The Rock.

That doesn't make someone a draw. Just because people recognize him doesn't mean they'll watch him wrestle. WWE is a household name known to most living, breathing people. But clearly not everyone in the USA wants to watch their product.

k? Incoherent ramblings... nothing to read here.

Never said it was bad. All I said is that he's a transitional champion whose reign probably won't be remembered years from now. Thanks for agreeing.

Most people will remember the year Lesnar ended the streak and then went on to decimate Cena and become the WWE champion..likely going on to headline wrestlemania. If you wont remember this... thats your fucking problem.

Clearly he doesn't have the motivation to commit to the business that others have. WWE has recognized he's better suited to put someone else over than to be their star attraction. I'm sure Brock knows this too.

Again, WWE hasn't realized that Lesnar is better suited to put someone over than to be the star attraction. Lesnar is NOT WILLING to be the star attraction. There is a big difference.

Brock was not a credible threat to Cena at that moment. Not even close. He had just fucking lost to the guy. WWE put him over Taker to make him look unbeatable to justify him going over Cena. Otherwise it would just look stupid.

What the fuck... this is the dumbest thing you've said yet. They ended a 20 year in the making streak so Lesnar could look like a legit threat to fucking Cena? Are you kidding me? If Lesnar isn't a draw, and Cena is a draw, and WWE want to build a new star... then why doesn't Roman Reigns fight Cena at Wrestlemania?

WWE wouldn't make any more or less money with Brock on the card or not. They're a drawing brand. PPV's, especially WM will make a set amount of money regardless.

Except for the fact that PPV's involving Lesnar tend to sell better.

We both know Lesnar isn't going full time. He will remain a part time worker and will defend the belt rarely while Lesnar gets the schedule he wants. And WWE can afford to have their champion do this because they don't need his star power.

Backwards logic...it's more like WWE are doing this because they NEED his star power. WWE realizes that they can't make a star out of someone like Reigns by having him beat Cena. They don't want Reigns to be the next Randy Orton, they're trying for the next Rock.

WeIf they did he'd be a full time worker defending the belt every PPV til Mania.

If Brock Lesnar was willing to he would be a full time worker. Lesnar has zero interest in working a full time schedule. Vince probably stays awake at night jerking off to the scenario that Lesnar is in the process of picking up his phone to say "Lets talk a full time schedule Vince"

Again, you're obviously bias about Lesnar and it's likely you're bias when it comes to Cena as well.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Vince probably stays awake at night jerking off to the scenario that Lesnar is in the process of picking up his phone to say "Lets talk a full time schedule Vince"

There's an interesting thought, huh? Sure, it's tempting to think Brock has come to enjoy this stuff so much that he's willing to consider doing it full-time.

The problem with that is he came to hate it all those years ago ("The Next Big Thing!") when his body was younger and better able to withstand the full-time aspects of it all.

These past couple years, he's gotten to have his cake and eat it, too. He gets to work the part-time (extremely part-time) schedule that other performers can only dream of.....while being paid a king's ransom to do it. Why in the world would he want to go full-time?

Yes, one answer is to be paid even more money, but he would have to weigh that against having to travel full-time with everyone else and (presumably) adhere to many of the same rules the others have to abide by......which is stuff he hasn't had to worry about since he became a mercenary. Don't think there isn't resentment against him from the rest of the troupe; it would be illogical to think they're thrilled to watch this guy march to his own tune while they get stuck holding down the fort while he's gone. Plus, he waltzes in and is given the world title? Please.

If Vince is foolish enough to hope Brock will become a permanent fixture, let him. Brock's currently got the world on a string.....why would he change that?

 

[MartialHorror]

God damn it Sally, your Bray-kitty sig is just too adorable!

Honestly, even when Brock is involved in a story it's still part-time. He only does matches during PPV's and is inconsistent with his appearances.. Hell, his big Cena feud was built by two appearances and a video package. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to do this every month. He'd still be taking it easy, but at least he'd be doing something during his championship reign.

lol, was it just me or did the 'urine' line seem unscripted? Brock almost looked like he regretted saying that, although WWE sure rolled with it.

 

[Sedated]

There's an interesting thought, huh? Sure, it's tempting to think Brock has come to enjoy this stuff so much that he's willing to consider doing it full-time.

The problem with that is he came to hate it all those years ago ("The Next Big Thing!") when his body was younger and better able to withstand the full-time aspects of it all.

These past couple years, he's gotten to have his cake and eat it, too. He gets to work the part-time (extremely part-time) schedule that other performers can only dream of.....while being paid a king's ransom to do it. Why in the world would he want to go full-time?

Yes, one answer is to be paid even more money, but he would have to weigh that against having to travel full-time with everyone else and (presumably) adhere to many of the same rules the others have to abide by......which is stuff he hasn't had to worry about since he became a mercenary. Don't think there isn't resentment against him from the rest of the troupe; it would be illogical to think they're thrilled to watch this guy march to his own tune while they get stuck holding down the fort while he's gone. Plus, he waltzes in and is given the world title? Please.

If Vince is foolish enough to hope Brock will become a permanent fixture, let him. Brock's currently got the world on a string.....why would he change that?

Brock isn't going to be full time, I wasn't trying to imply he would be.

That other guy was trying to pretend that this is the role WWE think Lesnar is best suited for, as if Vince wouldn't do backflips at the thought of a full time Lesnar or the chance to make Lesnar the poster boy.

Regardless how anyone feels about Lesnar though, there are a few things everyone needs to understand...

1. There is a reason why Lesnar is allowed to be an absent champion.
2. There is a reason why Undertaker was willing to end a 20 year in the making streak to Lesnar.

Love him or hate him the guy IS a fucking beast. He can also wrestle better than probably the entire current roster and is a LEGIT bad mother fucker.

Lesnar is probably the greatest wrestler of all time as far as kayfaybe goes.

Beat the crap out of Hogan/Rock/Undertaker/Cena/Triple H. The only real blemish on his record is Goldberg. In a wrestling landscape where wins stopped mattering and everyone trades wins.. Lesnar is the last active wrestler who actually seems like they mean something.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Brock isn't going to be full time, I wasn't trying to imply he would be.

You didn't imply that; you've just opened up an interesting area of discussion.

1. There is a reason why Lesnar is allowed to be an absent champion.
2. There is a reason why Undertaker was willing to end a 20 year in the making streak to Lesnar.

Yes, and it would be an education to be a fly on the wall in the WWE locker room. It used to be that if a performer wanted to work for WWE, they did it under the contractual terms laid out by Vince McMahon.....or not at all. Sting was probably the most famous example of "not at all".....and he was powerful enough in the business to stay away and still become a living legend.

But McMahon changed his modus operandi in dealing with guys like Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam. They wouldn't work under the standard arrangement and Vince was smart enough to realize it would be better to have them in his company than to not have them at all; so they got special deals. Still, I doubt there was much resentment of those guys due to the fact that when they were there....there were really there, working the same schedules as other full time employees, traveling with the team and most likely hanging out with them.

In Brock's case....and Dwayne Johnson's.....it's totally different. They aren't part of the troupe, yet come in, get paid mega-bucks......and have the whole show built around them.....then, they leave. Yes, I think it's wise of management to follow through with this, but I'd love to know how the rest of the gang feels about it.

If they think it stinks, would you blame them? If they dare protest to McMahon, he probably tells them: "When you can bring in bucks the way Rock and Brock can, you can have that type of deal, too."

What's best for business isn't always what's best for company morale.

 

[Bernkastel]

No shit? Doesn't change the fact that UFC demonstrated the extreme drawing power Brock Lesnar is capable of.

Drawing power that he's never been capable of producing as a pro wrestler. And it certainly isn't going to change now.

Ticket sales? Who is talking about ticket sales? You can't judge Lesnar's drawing power based on ticket sales for the WWE.

Yeah you really fucking can. It's the only thing that has remained constant through eras when it comes to measuring drawing power.

You would look at ratings and buy rates. Last time I looked there was an increase in both buy rates and ratings whenever Lesnar was around. Last time I looked at the numbers you could make a solid argument that Lesnar is currently a bigger draw than The Rock.

Ratings and buy rates? That's it, now I know you're trolling.

No one cares about television ratings in this day and age. And Lesnar's presence isn't going to change the buy rates when WWE is a drawing brand. Thank you for dancing around that little fact, twice.

k? Incoherent ramblings... nothing to read here.

Speak for yourself

Most people will remember the year Lesnar ended the streak and then went on to decimate Cena and become the WWE champion..likely going on to headline wrestlemania. If you wont remember this... thats your fucking problem.

Right, they'll remember the road he took to becoming champion, not what he while he was champion. And do you really want that for Lesnar?

Again, WWE hasn't realized that Lesnar is better suited to put someone over than to be the star attraction. Lesnar is NOT WILLING to be the star attraction. There is a big difference.

Bull-shit. If Lesnar was the star attraction for WWE he'd make infinity more money than he would now and it would open allot more doors for him. But he's not because WWE knows he's not suited for the role because they can't market him in that way and he's NEVER DRAWN ANY MONEY AS A PRO WRESTLER.

What the fuck... this is the dumbest thing you've said yet. They ended a 20 year in the making streak so Lesnar could look like a legit threat to fucking Cena?

Basically. Cry more. Otherwise they're wouldn't have been any reason for Lesnar to end the streak if he was already "so over."

Are you kidding me? If Lesnar isn't a draw, and Cena is a draw, and WWE want to build a new star... then why doesn't Roman Reigns fight Cena at Wrestlemania?

Because Lesnar is the big heel being built up to lose. It's the most natural way to build a top face. Do know anything about pro wrestling at all?

Cena has been giving the rub to many different stars for years. Not one of them has taken off because they can't fill his shoes. Why would WWE want to waste Reigns/Cena on that?

Except for the fact that PPV's involving Lesnar tend to sell better.

Normally I'd have you prove this ridiculous claim, but I'll disprove it myself, just to show how much of a mark you're being.

Extreme rules 2012 [Brock vs Cena] - did more PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2012 [Brock vs HHH] - did more PPV buys than the previous year

Extreme Rules 2013 [Brock vs HHH] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2013 [Brock vs CM Punk] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Royal Rumble 2014 - do I even have to mention this? The fans wouldn't have given a fuck about Lesnar even if he personally paid them to. It was all about Daniel Bryan.

Wrestlemania 30 - did less PPV's buys than the previous year

Based on your own logic Lesnar isn't a draw. Some cards did better with him on it, but most didn't. Whatever star power he does possess isn't enough to move the WWE's "needle." And it furthers my argument that WWE is a drawing brand and they don't need Lesnar to draw for them.

So stop being an idiot, take your head out of Lesnar's ass, stop toting him as this megastar that he isn't, and recognize him for what he is: a part time, novelty worker, transitional champ, whose only job will be to put over the next big industry star.

 

[timothy26]

He isn't neccassarily needed as a draw when they have something else going on but when they don't have major stars to put in the main event they can at least expect some interest by putting Brock in a match.

 

[Bernkastel]

He isn't neccassarily needed as a draw when they have something else going on but when they don't have major stars to put in the main event they can at least expect some interest by putting Brock in a match.

And that's basically what a novelty star does. Brock's role is to come in a few times a year, fuck shit up, and then leave again. He might win or he might lose. The point is to not over-saturate his character. Brock isn't suited to be a top industry star. He's more like Undertaker or Andre. He's never going to be a Hogan or a Rock.

And that's also the problem I have with him being champ right now. I wouldn't care if he held it for a month or two and dropped it, but I don't want to see him hold it for a year and do basically nothing with it.

So unless he transitions into a full time star defending the belt every PPV then I see very little point in him having a long title reign.

 

[Mitch Henessey]

Cena VS Lesnar II hooked me in from start to finish.

I could buy into Cena having trouble recovering after the F5 (a high impact and devastating finisher) in the early stages of the match, and Cena making a crucial mistake by charging Lesnar head on in a power game. Cena made the mistake of slamming of his foot on the gas pedal too early. He didn't have anything left in the tank, so Lesnar toyed with him during the vast majority of the match.

As others said, we've never seen John Cena take a decisive beating and loss, so watching the match unfold was genuinely shocking. You also have to remember the Extreme Rules 2012 match. The finish was set up to make Cena's win look like a fluke. Brock had to prove the win two years ago was nothing more than a fluke....and he did with a decisive victory. In the end, Lesnar played his part as the dominant and ferocious beast, and Cena played his part, as the scrappy champion, who refused to quit.

We all expected a more competitive back and forth contest, but WWE threw another curvball at us, and for me, the final product was a pleasant and unprecedented surprise.

 

[Sedated]

You didn't imply that; you've just opened up an interesting area of discussion.

Fair enough

Yes, and it would be an education to be a fly on the wall in the WWE locker room. It used to be that if a performer wanted to work for WWE, they did it under the contractual terms laid out by Vince McMahon.....or not at all. Sting was probably the most famous example of "not at all".....and he was powerful enough in the business to stay away and still become a living legend.

This is very true. It's very obvious that Vince's philosophy changed drastically around the time of the PG era when it came to contracts. From what I recall, one of the biggest things holding back names like Sting and Goldberg from coming over to WWE was that they didn't want to work house shows and Vince refused to sign them. Now names like Rock and Lesnar get to be WWE Champion while not having to do house shows or even show up for Monday night Raw.

But McMahon changed his modus operandi in dealing with guys like Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam. They wouldn't work under the standard arrangement and Vince was smart enough to realize it would be better to have them in his company than to not have them at all; so they got special deals. Still, I doubt there was much resentment of those guys due to the fact that when they were there....there were really there, working the same schedules as other full time employees, traveling with the team and most likely hanging out with them.

Not to mention that Jericho/RVD aren't in the main event despite their part time contracts. Hell, RVD has been curtain jerking pre shows x.x

In Brock's case....and Dwayne Johnson's.....it's totally different. They aren't part of the troupe, yet come in, get paid mega-bucks......and have the whole show built around them.....then, they leave. Yes, I think it's wise of management to follow through with this, but I'd love to know how the rest of the gang feels about it.

Here's the thing though... the WWE have failed to make legit new stars. The stars they did make a lot of the fan base grew tired of rather quickly. John Cena, Randy Orton, Batista, so on and so forth.. all solid wrestlers in their own ways but none of them were Austin, Rock, Hogan, or even Kurt Angle/Lesnar. There's no doubt many feel like shit about it, most notably CM Punk obviously felt like shit about it... but I'll elaborate more on this in a moment.

If they think it stinks, would you blame them? If they dare protest to McMahon, he probably tells them: "When you can bring in bucks the way Rock and Brock can, you can have that type of deal, too."

What's best for business isn't always what's best for company morale.

I wouldn't blame them necessarily...but on the flip side, you have people like CM Punk who is nothing but a whiny little bitch. CM Punk was never as great as he thought he is. CM Punk was bitter about The Rock coming in, yet The Rock is probably the only reason CM Punk was allowed to have that huuuge title reign. If Rock wasn't coming back Punk would have likely dropped the title months before Royal Rumble. I enjoyed Punk, he was good... and WWE could have utilized him much better than they did, but he was still no where near as good as he thought he was.

Anyway, my point is; there are certainly those who get annoyed by part timers coming in and stealing the show...but at the end of the day the roster has nobody to blame but them selves (and creative) for not managing to get them selves over to the point where people don't need to see The Rock/Lesnar return to want to tune in.

 

[Sedated]

Drawing power that he's never been capable of producing as a pro wrestler. And it certainly isn't going to change now.

Is he as big of a draw in the WWE as he was in the UFC? No. Is he still a draw? Yes.

Yeah you really fucking can. It's the only thing that has remained constant through eras when it comes to measuring drawing power.

What the fuck are you on? Ticket sales for Raw/PPVs has NEVER been WWE's problem. Buy rates/ratings have been an issue in recent years.

Ratings and buy rates? That's it, now I know you're trolling.

No one cares about television ratings in this day and age. And Lesnar's presence isn't going to change the buy rates when WWE is a drawing brand. Thank you for dancing around that little fact, twice.

No one cares about TV ratings? Did you have a lobotomy? The network cares about ratings, WWE cares about ratings, and the sponsors certainly give a fuck about ratings. WWE -IS- a drawing brand, nobody is denying that, but if WWE was capable of being where it wanted to be on brand alone they wouldn't have to shell out huge money to The Rock/Lesnar to be vacant champions.

Right, they'll remember the road he took to becoming champion, not what he while he was champion. And do you really want that for Lesnar?

You're shitting on a title run that isn't even a week old that looks like it may last 8 months. Bias much?

Bull-shit. If Lesnar was the star attraction for WWE he'd make infinity more money than he would now and it would open allot more doors for him. But he's not because WWE knows he's not suited for the role because they can't market him in that way and he's NEVER DRAWN ANY MONEY AS A PRO WRESTLER.

You have to work house shows and be there every week to be the poster child. Lesnar has zero desire to do this, seemingly regardless of the money. Lesnar seems quite content to wrestle 4 times a year and spend the rest of his time out in the woods hunting, and fucking sable. Go figure.

Basically. Cry more. Otherwise they're wouldn't have been any reason for Lesnar to end the streak if he was already "so over."

Untertaker losing to Lesnar was the ONLY possibly way to allow anyone young to possibly benefit off the streak. Last Wrestlemania there was nobody who was ready to end it. Cena? The fans probably would have set the arena on fire. Daniel Bryan/Reigns/Anyone else you can name? Not ready. Even if he wrestles again, Undertaker is just too old, even his match with Lesnar was mediocre, his work rate isn't getting any better at this point and another wrestlemania for Taker is a big question mark. Now Lesnar is the streak, beat lesnar and you get the indirect rub of ending the streak. WWE also has months to figure out who the right guy is. WWE has even longer if Rock vs Brock happens (Brock will retain) it's unlikely, but plausible that Brock could be champion for close to the next 2 years...or stripped of the title or some such only to win it back before WM32.

Cena has been giving the rub to many different stars for years. Not one of them has taken off because they can't fill his shoes. Why would WWE want to waste Reigns/Cena on that?

Cena is incapable of making anyone a star. At absolute best he can give them a slight momentum boost. Exactly, they don't want to waste Reigns on that. If the WWE is smart they'll keep Reigns as far away from Cena as possible until Reigns has already established him self firmly.

Normally I'd have you prove this ridiculous claim, but I'll disprove it myself, just to show how much of a mark you're being.

Extreme rules 2012 [Brock vs Cena] - did more PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2012 [Brock vs HHH] - did more PPV buys than the previous year

Extreme Rules 2013 [Brock vs HHH] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2013 [Brock vs CM Punk] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Royal Rumble 2014 - do I even have to mention this? The fans wouldn't have given a fuck about Lesnar even if he personally paid them to. It was all about Daniel Bryan.

Wrestlemania 30 - did less PPV's buys than the previous year

Based on your own logic Lesnar isn't a draw. Some cards did better with him on it, but most didn't. Whatever star power he does possess isn't enough to move the WWE's "needle." And it furthers my argument that WWE is a drawing brand and they don't need Lesnar to draw for them.

So stop being an idiot, take your head out of Lesnar's ass, stop toting him as this megastar that he isn't, and recognize him for what he is: a part time, novelty worker, transitional champ, whose only job will be to put over the next big industry star.

I don't feel like looking it up, that's probably accurate anyway. From what I recall extreme rules vs Cena sold quite a bit better than the previous year, Summerslam sold a fair bit better as well. If you think that had nothing to do with Lesnar you're crazy. Buy rates go down in the following years? Doesn't mean Lesnar didn't have to do with why the previous years were so high, just that interest in him/the general product waned.

It doesn't matter anyway, buy rates are no longer going to be able to be used as a measuring stick of any form with the WWE network. Lesnar is your champion, he'll likely be champion until Wrestlemania, with a slim possibility of being champion even longer than that. Don't like it? Tough shit.

 

[dob111283]

Drawing power that he's never been capable of producing as a pro wrestler. And it certainly isn't going to change now.



Yeah you really fucking can. It's the only thing that has remained constant through eras when it comes to measuring drawing power.



Ratings and buy rates? That's it, now I know you're trolling.

No one cares about television ratings in this day and age. And Lesnar's presence isn't going to change the buy rates when WWE is a drawing brand. Thank you for dancing around that little fact, twice.



Speak for yourself



Right, they'll remember the road he took to becoming champion, not what he while he was champion. And do you really want that for Lesnar?



Bull-shit. If Lesnar was the star attraction for WWE he'd make infinity more money than he would now and it would open allot more doors for him. But he's not because WWE knows he's not suited for the role because they can't market him in that way and he's NEVER DRAWN ANY MONEY AS A PRO WRESTLER.



Basically. Cry more. Otherwise they're wouldn't have been any reason for Lesnar to end the streak if he was already "so over."



Because Lesnar is the big heel being built up to lose. It's the most natural way to build a top face. Do know anything about pro wrestling at all?

Cena has been giving the rub to many different stars for years. Not one of them has taken off because they can't fill his shoes. Why would WWE want to waste Reigns/Cena on that?



Normally I'd have you prove this ridiculous claim, but I'll disprove it myself, just to show how much of a mark you're being.

Extreme rules 2012 [Brock vs Cena] - did more PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2012 [Brock vs HHH] - did more PPV buys than the previous year

Extreme Rules 2013 [Brock vs HHH] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2013 [Brock vs CM Punk] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Royal Rumble 2014 - do I even have to mention this? The fans wouldn't have given a fuck about Lesnar even if he personally paid them to. It was all about Daniel Bryan.

Wrestlemania 30 - did less PPV's buys than the previous year

Based on your own logic Lesnar isn't a draw. Some cards did better with him on it, but most didn't. Whatever star power he does possess isn't enough to move the WWE's "needle." And it furthers my argument that WWE is a drawing brand and they don't need Lesnar to draw for them.

So stop being an idiot, take your head out of Lesnar's ass, stop toting him as this megastar that he isn't, and recognize him for what he is: a part time, novelty worker, transitional champ, whose only job will be to put over the next big industry star.

Thanks for bringing facts and logic to these discussions. Here's also WWE's latest ratings:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/504021-big-show-and-mark-henry-segment-scrapped.

It's virtually a fact that Lesnar is not a huge draw, nor has he ever been. He's a poor man's Goldberg.

 

[timothy26]

And that's basically what a novelty star does. Brock's role is to come in a few times a year, fuck shit up, and then leave again. He might win or he might lose. The point is to not over-saturate his character. Brock isn't suited to be a top industry star. He's more like Undertaker or Andre. He's never going to be a Hogan or a Rock.

And that's also the problem I have with him being champ right now. I wouldn't care if he held it for a month or two and dropped it, but I don't want to see him hold it for a year and do basically nothing with it.

So unless he transitions into a full time star defending the belt every PPV then I see very little point in him having a long title reign.

The reason for having him hold the belt long term is to build him up as an unbeatable monster then have him drop the belt to someone new at WM ('m assuming Reigns) in order to put them over as a top star

 

[Bernkastel]

What the fuck are you on? Ticket sales for Raw/PPVs has NEVER been WWE's problem. Buy rates/ratings have been an issue in recent years.

That only applies to Wrestlemania. That's their biggest show of the year and they can expect 70,000+ people almost automatically. But did you know that the Royal Rumble only averages 15,000 people a year? Summerslam averages about a 1,000 more. Did you know that WWE has been increasing the prices of their tickets almost every year? Buy rates don't apply to shows like RAW, and attendance sales for free shows have always been hurting the WWE.

As been stated before, if WWE puts Brock's name on a card they wouldn't expect to see a drastic change in the size of the gate they were expecting to pull with his name not on that card. And that's because he's a part time worker who rarely shows up. When he has worked full time in the past he's never drawn. If fact he's always lost the fans interest.

No one cares about TV ratings? Did you have a lobotomy? The network cares about ratings, WWE cares about ratings, and the sponsors certainly give a fuck about ratings. WWE -IS- a drawing brand, nobody is denying that, but if WWE was capable of being where it wanted to be on brand alone they wouldn't have to shell out huge money to The Rock/Lesnar to be vacant champions.

TV ratings don't account for the fans that use the internet to watch RAW or the fans that record the show because they work Monday nights. Most children probably realize they don't have to watch the USA network to keep up with the shows. And that's not something that either you nor I can understand because we grew up during an era where ratings were very important.

We can tell that WWE isn't concerned about ratings when they still use the same boring writing staff year after year despite heavy criticisms.

WWE shells out money to the Rock/Lesnar/Undertaker's of the world to boost interest for a short time only. And for payoffs on huge shows like Mania. No one with a brain is expecting Lesnar to bolster interest on smaller PPV's or free TV or house shows. He wouldn't be able too.

You're shitting on a title run that isn't even a week old that looks like it may last 8 months. Bias much?

I don't want to see a champion hold a belt for a year and do nothing with it. And I'm sure many other fans don't want to see that either. The only people that want to see that are the blind Lesnar marks like you who think he's the greatest wrestler ever, when really he's an average worker who is underwhelming in large doses and shouldn't be champion for longer than a month.

And he probably won't won't be. I'm betting he gets squashed in 5 minutes by Super Cena at NOC or the next PPV, or cashed in on by Rollins, when WWE realizes they can't make any money with Lesnar as champ in the long run.

 

[Kidpolean]

Drawing power that he's never been capable of producing as a pro wrestler. And it certainly isn't going to change now.



Yeah you really fucking can. It's the only thing that has remained constant through eras when it comes to measuring drawing power.



Ratings and buy rates? That's it, now I know you're trolling.

No one cares about television ratings in this day and age. And Lesnar's presence isn't going to change the buy rates when WWE is a drawing brand. Thank you for dancing around that little fact, twice.



Speak for yourself



Right, they'll remember the road he took to becoming champion, not what he while he was champion. And do you really want that for Lesnar?



Bull-shit. If Lesnar was the star attraction for WWE he'd make infinity more money than he would now and it would open allot more doors for him. But he's not because WWE knows he's not suited for the role because they can't market him in that way and he's NEVER DRAWN ANY MONEY AS A PRO WRESTLER.



Basically. Cry more. Otherwise they're wouldn't have been any reason for Lesnar to end the streak if he was already "so over."



Because Lesnar is the big heel being built up to lose. It's the most natural way to build a top face. Do know anything about pro wrestling at all?

Cena has been giving the rub to many different stars for years. Not one of them has taken off because they can't fill his shoes. Why would WWE want to waste Reigns/Cena on that?



Normally I'd have you prove this ridiculous claim, but I'll disprove it myself, just to show how much of a mark you're being.

Extreme rules 2012 [Brock vs Cena] - did more PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2012 [Brock vs HHH] - did more PPV buys than the previous year

Extreme Rules 2013 [Brock vs HHH] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Summerslam 2013 [Brock vs CM Punk] - did significantly less PPV buys than the previous year.

Royal Rumble 2014 - do I even have to mention this? The fans wouldn't have given a fuck about Lesnar even if he personally paid them to. It was all about Daniel Bryan.

Wrestlemania 30 - did less PPV's buys than the previous year

Based on your own logic Lesnar isn't a draw. Some cards did better with him on it, but most didn't. Whatever star power he does possess isn't enough to move the WWE's "needle." And it furthers my argument that WWE is a drawing brand and they don't need Lesnar to draw for them.

So stop being an idiot, take your head out of Lesnar's ass, stop toting him as this megastar that he isn't, and recognize him for what he is: a part time, novelty worker, transitional champ, whose only job will be to put over the next big industry star.

There is so much wrong with those stats you tried to use. Did you even think that through before you posted it?

1. Brock Lesnar wrestled at WM29, so how the hell are you gonna say that Lesnar doesnt draw because WM30 didnt sell as much as Wm29?

2. Royal Rumble...Lesnar was in a midcard match against freaking Big Show. Drawing is about matchups not individuals. Nobody can draw significant numbers in a mid card match against Big Show except for maybe a returning Stone Cold but thats about it.

3. Extreme Rules 2013 did less numbers than Extreme Rules 2012..um WHO CARES when Brock headlined both of them? You cant compare Lesnar to Lesnar. You are pretty much saying that Lesnar couldnt out draw himself so he isnt a draw...that makes no sense.

4. Summerslam 2013 did less numbers than Summerslam 2012...OMG once again Lesnar HEADLINED Summerslam 2012...this actually works against your argument. Lesnar headlined Summerslam 2012 that did better numbers than Summerslam 2013 where he didnt close the show which shows that Lesnar closing the show in a big profile match was a better draw than Cena vs DB.

Please Try Again...cuz that was a terrible attempt at proving a point

Lesnar improved all ppv numbers of ppv's that he did not wrestle in the previous year EXCEPT for Royal Rumble. However, Lesnar had a worthless opponent, little to no build, and was in the midcard PLUS The Rock who is a better draw than Lesnar headlined the previous year.

This shows that Lesnar is indeed a draw. Summerslam, Wrestlemania, and Extreme Rules...3 of the 4 ppv's that he wrestled at did better numbers with him than they did without him.

 

[Sedated]

That only applies to Wrestlemania. That's their biggest show of the year and they can expect 70,000+ people almost automatically. But did you know that the Royal Rumble only averages 15,000 people a year? Summerslam averages about a 1,000 more. Did you know that WWE has been increasing the prices of their tickets almost every year? Buy rates don't apply to shows like RAW, and attendance sales for free shows have always been hurting the WWE.

Regardless of how many people attend the Royal Rumble, it's usually a sell out or near sell out crowd. Lesnar isn't going to make it so the Royal Rumble is now held at Giant's stadium. Then again Austin/Hogan never did this either; I guess neither were draws. (I'm not trying to say Lesnar is on the level of Hogan/Austin, just that your argument is ridiculous.)

As been stated before, if WWE puts Brock's name on a card they wouldn't expect to see a drastic change in the size of the gate they were expecting to pull with his name not on that card. And that's because he's a part time worker who rarely shows up. When he has worked full time in the past he's never drawn. If fact he's always lost the fans interest.

This is pure bias and simply isn't true. WWE was in much better shape when Lesnar was full time than they are now.

TV ratings don't account for the fans that use the internet to watch RAW or the fans that record the show because they work Monday nights. Most children probably realize they don't have to watch the USA network to keep up with the shows. And that's not something that either you nor I can understand because we grew up during an era where ratings were very important.

Do you know why ratings don't account for fans who use the internet to watch Raw? BECAUSE THOSE VIEWS DON'T FUCKING MATTER. It doesn't help WWE if you download the latest episode of Raw; WWE gets zero out of that, their network gets less than zero and their network sponsors get...you guess it! ZERO.

We can tell that WWE isn't concerned about ratings when they still use the same boring writing staff year after year despite heavy criticisms.

Different topic for a different time.

WWE shells out money to the Rock/Lesnar/Undertaker's of the world to boost interest for a short time only. And for payoffs on huge shows like Mania. No one with a brain is expecting Lesnar to bolster interest on smaller PPV's or free TV or house shows. He wouldn't be able too.

Ummm you realize one of the reasons Lesnar is champion is so he can headline NOC and WWE is hoping that will improve people renewing their network subscriptions, right?

I don't want to see a champion hold a belt for a year and do nothing with it. And I'm sure many other fans don't want to see that either. The only people that want to see that are the blind Lesnar marks like you who think he's the greatest wrestler ever, when really he's an average worker who is underwhelming in large doses and shouldn't be champion for longer than a month.

The only people who don't want to see Lesnar's 8 year title reign are nut gobbling Cena marks *rollseyes*

Anyway, calling Lesnar an average worker is beyond ridiculous.

And he probably won't won't be. I'm betting he gets squashed in 5 minutes by Super Cena at NOC or the next PPV, or cashed in on by Rollins, when WWE realizes they can't make any money with Lesnar as champ in the long run.

I'll take that bet.

 

[Sedated]

Thanks for bringing facts and logic to these discussions. Here's also WWE's latest ratings:

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/504021-big-show-and-mark-henry-segment-scrapped.

It's virtually a fact that Lesnar is not a huge draw, nor has he ever been. He's a poor man's Goldberg.

This is ignoring the fact that Hogan was advertised for Raw last week and an NWO reunion was all but confirmed.

 

[Metalhead0290]

First off, I thought Cena should have bled like Lesnar said he would. It would have displayed the beating Lesnar delivered to him much better. Blood in wrestling is a fantastic tool to further intensify a feud or show brutality in a great way. I think WWE's PG insistence negatively effected this match and feud by not allowing Cena to bleed. Especially when Lesnar cut a promo on it.

That being said, aside from the lack of blood I felt the main event was great. Yes, the wrestling was not very good as it lacked variety. However, that does not matter because the reason for it being this way was to tell a story. That story is that of Lesnar destroying Cena. So, if you look at it in a storyline sense, the match did exactly as it was supposed to do. It was also a breath of fresh air seeing Cena manhandled like a rag doll. I will take a part timer as champ any day as opposed to having Cena shoved down my throat every second.

 

[The Dark Warlords]

The reason why i think it was disappointing to you is because you are not looking at from this perspective: It was supposed to be a one sided beat down. It was supposed to be like that. Brock bragging about what he was doing to Cena is in his persona. You can tell that he is someone that would be bragging about getting the upper hand on Cena. Even though i like Cena, i was happy that Brock won. Especially in the manner that he did.

It fit him. Someone like Lesnar would destroy most people in WWE. So it made sense for it to have went down like that. Also Lesnar appearing more on TV is no going to happen. It was good for Lesnar to be the one to decimate Cena and take the title on that night.