Are we over-thinking WWE?

[RockNWag]

It seems as if we've lost the true point of "wrestling". I've noticed posts (particularly on this website) that complain about the way WWE "let" so-and-so win a match. Now, we all know that WWE is very scripted, but it seems like we're letting that get in the way of our entertainment. When we were kids it would have said "OH MY GOSH! EDGE CAME BACK AND WON THE ROYAL RUMBLE!!!" now it's "I can't believe Edge came back from an injury and they automatically LET him headline Wrestlemania".

Of course creative decides the outcome of matches, and we know that, but can't we use our imagination a little, and instead of complaining about the outcome of matches, actually accept that somebody won the match through their ability or excellent timing? It seems as if we're ruining wrestling for ourselves.

Do you think we look too much into wrestling, particularly the way WWE does it, or do you think we should continue to look into it "mathmatically"? Why?

 

[billm75]

I have to agree with you, we (the IWC especially) are trying to ruin it for ourselves by nitpicking every little thing the E does. And for what? To show our "superiority"???? I dunno bout you folks, but I don't make the millions that Vince does, so I'm pretty sure he's got a better grip on things than I ever will.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see other things happen differently, because I would. I'd love to see guys like Miz and Morrison, etc, get moved up the cards but that's because I'm a fan of theirs, not because I think it would be a great business decision.

I do suspend disbelief during the shows to enjoy them, I know full well they're pre-determined and yet, I enjoy watching them perform nonetheless. That's why nobody BETS on wrestling, but then again, I'm not in it for the competitive side, I'm in it for the entertainment side.

BUT since the all-knowing, all-powerful IWC isn't going away anytime soon, you can rest assured that the complaints, the bitching and the moaning will continue to build in strength and volume. And personally, I think it's because they're bitter after finding out that 1.) Wrestling is scripted, not real 2.) There is no Santa Claus 3.) There is no tooth fairy.

 

[SydTinDad]

When creative is run by a dunce of a woman like Stephanie McMahon who blows the help, a juicehead no talent gold digger like HHH, and a senile old man like Vince, he and they SHOULD BE TAKING OUTSIDE OPINIONS because as of late, theirs suck.

 

[Wrath]

I %100 agree with you. It's probably our one of the biggest mistake mistake as a fan. We try to find the logic in every creative decision. For example Edge's Rumble victory. When you look it in logic wise Edge didn't need to win the Rumble because he's an established main event star someone like Kofi Kingston or Christian would've benefitted from that win much more. It's true if you want logic. But when you look at it in entertain wise it's probably the best decision WWE could've come up with. We all have missed Edge and at least I was really shocked when I saw Edge's return. Edge's return made Rumble match so much more exciting. We actually want to look at things deeper to find logic. If we watch wrestling like we watch 24,Lost,House and other tv shows instead of trying to find logic flaws just try to entertain from the show I'm %100 percent sure we would be entertained more. I mean we should let creative team book to shows we should just try to entertain from the show. Instead of trying to predict the winners and try to see where creative is coming from there we should just wait and see what will happen next. So yes you're hundred percent right but I don't think this will change any time soon. We'll continue to read backstage stuff from internet and discuss creative decisions in these forums.

 

[hellod245]

Will you think the same thing for TNA too. Answer is no because you are a wwe mark and dont want to hear anything against it. Now as per your question we dont over-think wwe. We know that this is entertainment and as grown ups instead of enjoying the nonsense things we try to find the logic and this is what today's wrestling fans are all about. If wwe creative put a good move(like last year's edge's surprise in EC) then we appreciate this but if they do something wrong(Adding Hornswoggle in DX) then we criticize it. On the whole storyline point of view , i always think is this storyline is worth watching? But when a match is on then i dont remember that this is scripted, i just enjoy the match. This is what today's wrestling fans do they find logics in the storyline and if its good then they enjoy the match wihout thinking that its scripted. I can give you a tons of examples on that but i dont want to get another message from wrestlezone admit of warning

 

[Crossfire]

You make very valid points, Rock.
I think we all do have exceeded expectations that WWE can't live up to.. But then again I can also list a couple of things that really bother me which personified WWF/WWE; and should still be around in some shape or form..

Now I have no problem whatever with some reference to '80s WWF..
No problem at all..
But let's face it.. For the most part we think about ACTION..
I'm sure most of us don't want to come home from the worst day at work or school, and see how clean and perfect "Life" is on television..

When I think of WWE, I think of Attitude.. The Attitude era; simple yet flashy attire, unique gimmicks and lots of emotion; Not so much "commercial" intro and entrance music[though I do like some of today's].. I mean not to take a shot at music taste or anything.. But if someone would've told me in 2001 that a Nickelback song would be the theme for RAW, I probably wouldn't have believed them...

and above all else, UNPREDICTABLE, INSANE storylines...
Hell, Off topic but I was once so excited on Sunday nights during HEAT[RIP] just to see what the titantron would look like the night of a PPV.. Now it's just.. HD.. Something so simplistic, but has such a major effect.. Which is great for Live but leaves the fans wanting "more" who are watching at home..

I can't tell you how distraught I was when I found out the Hardcore title was being breached.. WWF[as I will call it now], had so much more to appreciate...

Finally, the Superstars these days.. So many of them have great potential to be so much more, the midcarders and even the lows.. But all focus is on the ones who are "not far" from retirement and/or losing hair... Don't get me wrong; I'm all up for future hall of famers and their earned spotlight, but it's getting to be pretty ridiculous..

Yes, I know a lot of us could go on and on and on...
About the lame attires of today..
about the lame storylines of today..
about newcomers getting titles and title shots before low and midcarders even do today..

But this is what the "kiddies" that WWE are trying to come across with should see..
And if WWE thinks they are doing kids,parents,and their families a favor with the "PG" thing; They truly aren't..
There is more bullying, drugs, sex,unusual circumstances, and just disgrace in the world today than there ever was..
Why try and censor real life? [If that is their intentive motive.]

It could be the one drastic thing that they'd still have going for them if they could relate with reality and not fiction..

I'm probably just stating all of the obvious; but it was just a couple of things that were on my mind.. Hopefully others can relate because I know I'm not the only one..

 

[RockNWag]

Will you think the same thing for TNA too. Answer is no because you are a wwe mark and dont want to hear anything against it. Now as per your question we dont over-think wwe. We know that this is entertainment and as grown ups instead of enjoying the nonsense things we try to find the logic and this is what today's wrestling fans are all about. If wwe creative put a good move(like last year's edge's surprise in EC) then we appreciate this but if they do something wrong(Adding Hornswoggle in DX) then we criticize it. On the whole storyline point of view , i always think is this storyline is worth watching? But when a match is on then i dont remember that this is scripted, i just enjoy the match. This is what today's wrestling fans do they find logics in the storyline and if its good then they enjoy the match wihout thinking that its scripted. I can give you a tons of examples on that but i dont want to get another message from wrestlezone admit of warning

I'm a WWE mark? Really? Just to let you know, I enjoy each show equally, but differently. They both have different "problems" and people complain about different things in each company. The question stated was specifically about WWE, (but doesn't have to end there in the answers) because that's what was complained about most recently. I don't understand your logic in thinking I'm a WWE "mark" (I personally prefer the word FAN because I don't try to sound smarter than the average FAN) but that's your opinion. My post isn't as much about the storylines, but the matches. We complain because WWE LET someone win a match, instead of acknowledging that the superstar WON the match.

 

[AndyUK]

Yeah, for definite. I can't stand how every single thing is nitpicked. They definitely deserve criticism for certain things and I definitely criticise some decisions myself at times but some people take it way too far with their constant whining. Some people act like they never enjoy anything on the show and want to hate it before it happens. If that is the case, why the hell are you watching it?

 

[fredstephenson]

most definatly i find my self over analazing every aspect of the wwe such as why certain things were said why did they do that promo is that injury legit ect

just today there was a thread on whether or not bret saying ass on raw last night is the begining of the end of the pg era which leads me to think most people are somewhat guilty of it to i think its because weve accepted that wrestling is scripted and people constantly reminding us that its fake all the time i think when i watch from now on im just going to go with the flow and not care about why the wwe makes the decisions it does although thats easier said then done

 

[RockNWag]

Yeah, for definite. I can't stand how every single thing is nitpicked. They definitely deserve criticism for certain things and I definitely criticise some decisions myself at times but some people take it way too far with their constant whining. Some people act like they never enjoy anything on the show and want to hate it before it happens. If that is the case, why the hell are you watching it?

Definitely agree. I'm not saying I never complain about it, or criticise certain aspects, but when you complain about EVERYTHING, how are you even enjoying the show? A little bit of criticising is healthy, it keeps the company being talked about, and that's what they want. I'm sure they wanted people to complaing about Sheamus being champion, because it wasn't a pinfall victory for the title or anything, but to complain about everything just ruins it for everybody.

 

[the_migulator]

"Are we over-thinking WWE?"

Absolutely. We are all guilty of this. We definitely over think wrestling. We join internet forums (like WZ's), we lament the product, nit pick over finishes, moves, and even the way characters speak. I would say about 70% of RAW is sat watching with two friends and we'll go over how the 'angle should have come about/went down' more than we actually sit and enjoy the show.

But, it's much like your favorite MLB, NFL, NBA, NHL, or Pro Soccer club."The Progression of the Fan" is what I like to call it; the process of transforming from a blindly loyal fan to a fan who wants to see the best product put on the field, so to speak. Ask 30 Red Sox fans what 'their' team should do heading into 2010 and you will have 30 different adamant, thoughtful answers.

Personally, I don't see a problem with Edge coming in and winning the Rumble. Perfect recipe if you ask me. I remember being younger and totally marking out to the 'surprise' entrants into the Rumble. Now Edge fit that mold perfectly, he's coming off an extended leave of absence to due injury, he's paid his dues in the WWE ten fold, he can talk, he can work, and he has a loyal fan base. Atlanta was HOPPING Sunday night when the words "You think you know me" blasted over the speakers. When Edge won the place was going bonkers.

I have no problem with Edge winning this year's Rumble because it was a surprise. He wasn't supposed to come back until Wrestlemania - and further more, who amongst the last ones in the ring really won? Kofi? Kofi has grown - leaps and bounds in just the past year alone - but Kofi Kingston main eventing WM26? No, thanks.

 

[danny_the_legend_killer]

lets be honest for a minuet here if were unhappy with whats goin on then there is 2 options
1. stop watching altogether which wont happen or

2. watch tna which is worse and less likely than number 1

 

[skibbiez]

I agree with you too, and I am always against what people say on these forums. I wish I would have never been introduced into these wrestling "news" sites. After I came to them wrestling stopped being as entertaining for me, because i already knew what was going to happen, I started caring about what rating raw got, and i joined the Iwc and nit-picked every part of the product instead of just watching. I've tried to stay away from the sites, but they are an everyday routine for me now lol So i guess wrestling is just never going to be the same...

 

[thepalaceprince]

I agree completely. Just the other day I had a conversation about how when I was a kid I wouldnt have been upset about rey mysterio fighting batista of undetaker I wouldve just watched and enjoyed the match. While I stil enjoy those matches now Im more cynical about it. Batista nails a spear on rey and Im angry that rey kicked out or Im yelling before the match even starts the batista should destroy rey and rey shouldnt be in the title hunt. While I still feel Im right about the way I look at matches its more fun when you just sit back and enjoy the show these incredible performers put on.

 

[HBKMarkIndeed]

I happened to come across this thread, and as someone who has been a fan of WWE/F as long as I can remember I felt compelled to share some thoughts.
I do believe that the fans of wrestling are over-thinking things. I will honestly say that i am one of them. I criticize WWE on a weekly basis. I do enjoy watching the matches, but sometimes I think, "wow that could have been done much better", but we all have to remember that as individuals, the WWE is not entertaining us. They are entertaining the WWE fans as a whole, which right now is dominated by kids.

I agree that kids see worse things on the nightly news, or hell even in their own neighborhood, but WWE is a safe outlet, and parents can feel comfortable letting their children watch it. From a business standpoint it is a great concept. i think some of the storylines are outrageously stupid, but that is one man's opinion. Ask the little 8,9 and l0 year olds what they thought, and they will say "It was awesome" or "Edge is back, cool".

If we are all so smart and know what's right for the business and what would be the right thing for WWE to do, then why are we the ones bitching and complaining on forums like this one. Personally, I think I have all the answers and can debate why the WWE can do a much better job, but again it is one mans opinion, and I would be speaking as someone who has been a fan for 25 years.

A few months ago I went to Raw in Detroit, with Dusty Rhodes guest hosting, sitting front row, I started talking to the guy next to me, must have been in his 30's with his father who looked to be in his 70's. I brought up the storylines, and he said to me "Oh we watch for the matches, my father has loved wrestling his whole life". Thus proving the point that the stories are for the kids.... Let's just sit back and enjoy what is on.

 

[jrichardson25]

Great topic. I've always wondered the same. I get cynical when I read the boards here at times and I have learned why the author JD Salinger went into the seclusion he did and why his book "Catcher in the Rye" had the character it did...

Getting back on topic now... I watch Raw live but I tape the rest of the WWE's programming. I also watch iMPACT so I'm not strictly a WWE mark. I feel like the IWC likes to over-think every little angle. If creative teams saw what the IWC came up with they'd think it over and throw fans through a loop. We do over-think a lot. I've learned in the past year plus that I watch to enjoy the product, yea there are things I dislike but I don't let that detract from the whole experience. WWE and TNA have had stupid moves in the past BUT WWE is the big fish and obviously they know what to do to keep a fan base. Their writing changes and so do people's tastes but we still watch.

As for complaining.. I do my share but I usually debate with a TNA mark over WWE related things and I usually put him in his place (not saying I'm a great debater but still...) The things we complain about change over time.

My final words to people that complain: Suck it up. If you don't like it don't watch it. Simple as that.

 

[Armeniac]

I think it's natural to judge a show harder as an adult than as a child. If we didn't have the ability to judge what happens around us we'd be terrible adults. The great thing about wrestling is that it operates on several levels, levels we as adults can appreciate and levels that kids and adults can appreciate. Take Cena for example. I and most folks on the interwebs f'n hate him, but kids love him as do their parents. Grown ups feel a deep affection for Cena, they like what he represents and satnds for, courage hustle, etc... Of course the dude can't wrestle for shit, but hey that's why HBK, Kofi, HHH, Jericho, Morrison, Mysterio et. all are there. They're great! The product WWE puts out today is miles above what it was in the 80's, Lenny Poffo Vs. Dude in blue shorts as a mid card, not any more, that would never fly. I think judging the action is fine, just would be more enjoyable if we forgot that judgement while watching the show, except for shitty RAW hosts judge away!!

 

[hellod245]

I'm a WWE mark? Really? Just to let you know, I enjoy each show equally, but differently. They both have different "problems" and people complain about different things in each company. The question stated was specifically about WWE, (but doesn't have to end there in the answers) because that's what was complained about most recently. I don't understand your logic in thinking I'm a WWE "mark" (I personally prefer the word FAN because I don't try to sound smarter than the average FAN) but that's your opinion. My post isn't as much about the storylines, but the matches. We complain because WWE LET someone win a match, instead of acknowledging that the superstar WON the match.

well if you were talkin about matches then its a different story. I mean for example in Cena and Orton feud everybody was angry because first of all it was too long, secondly they constantly changed the tittle every month which made tittle itself looked week.That was a valid criticism. Did you see anyone crying when Kofi got his win over Orton at Survivor series? No because that was what wwe needed at that time.They needed to establish new stars and they did it at SS. Nobody dissed the Miz's U.S tittle reign because he is worth it and doing pretty good with it. In matches point of view i will criticize whenever something will go wrong for business like ending of Cena Orton match at Summerslam (where the fan interrupted, i am not sure if it was Summerslam or something else)That was totaly bizzare.

 

[Travaje]

I think it's best to accept it for what it is. I don't take it seriously, and I don't think their programming is meant to be taken seriously. I love a good spot, but I really don't watch for the wrestling anymore. Everything's been done, anyways. I just watch for a laugh....seeing how certain things go down makes me chuckle because I know now how wrestling really works.

I would tell bent wrestling fan that misses the old days to embrace the entertainment side of it, and that if they want to see a sport, give MMA a try.

 

[Dysturbed]

The whole "overthinking" thing goes way beyond wrestling these days. I notice it concerning any tv show. With WWE though it's definitely been that way for years. Some people seem to watch shows and happen to notice some faults and discuss them and others seem to watch with the full intention of locating them and trashing the product. Often it comes across as if people, not necessarily here, are believing that what could happen absolutely should. Our minds are always at work so if we notice something we not likely to just block it out but it does seem like the typical fans expectations are overly high, often due to overthinking. That is not to say that people should just accept it if they consider something to be mediocre or to be poor booking or that they should stop watching if they still enjoy certain portions of the shows. Fans tend to have ideas that in theory would be great to see and often the fan's ideas actually could realistically happen within the context of any given storyline. I personally take things in stride. I like and dislike what and who I like with wrestling and don't often agree with decisions that are made but in the grand scheme of things it is what it is and it's beyond my control so I try not to let it get to me.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

What's interesting is that when I watch WWE I -constantly- question their decisions. "Why this, why that, who the hell does that?", and I'm not watching it as a fan - I'm watching it as a critic.

However, I watch TNA the same way I used to watch WWE when I was a kid. I'm marking out for faces and booing heels - it just flows and I trust their direction whereas WWE..well they HAVE done some ******ED shit in the past and I suppose we all stopped trusting their approach many years ago.

 

[johnnyblaze3:16]

over thinking is an understatement ive noticed that almost all on these forums are wwe bashers i mean arent we supose to be wrestling fans? every minute of raw is ripped apart and nit picked look wwe has always done things there way and will continue to do so if it sucks so bad please stop watching and go watch the events at your local highschool cafeteria and complain about that. months ago when edge went down everyone here couldnt wait for his return and now is complaining of predictability if thats the way your gonna see things then you have stopped enjoying wrestling and should turn your tv off. we all have fav nfl teams so after a loss do u sit there and go through play by play saying coulda woulda shouda? no not evan close does anyone know a forum site i can go to that actually likes wrestling? and before you call me a wwe mark you all complain the same about hogan and tna and im sorry to tell u but i watch and enjoy both i dont disect them i watch and enjoy as you should as well

 

[SickJames]

I have to agree with you, we (the IWC especially) are trying to ruin it for ourselves by nitpicking every little thing the E does. And for what? To show our "superiority"???? I dunno bout you folks, but I don't make the millions that Vince does, so I'm pretty sure he's got a better grip on things than I ever will.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to see other things happen differently, because I would. I'd love to see guys like Miz and Morrison, etc, get moved up the cards but that's because I'm a fan of theirs, not because I think it would be a great business decision.

I do suspend disbelief during the shows to enjoy them, I know full well they're pre-determined and yet, I enjoy watching them perform nonetheless. That's why nobody BETS on wrestling, but then again, I'm not in it for the competitive side, I'm in it for the entertainment side.

BUT since the all-knowing, all-powerful IWC isn't going away anytime soon, you can rest assured that the complaints, the bitching and the moaning will continue to build in strength and volume. And personally, I think it's because they're bitter after finding out that 1.) Wrestling is scripted, not real 2.) There is no Santa Claus 3.) There is no tooth fairy.

I completely agree with you. I get sick of seeing the complaints as well. Nothing at all can be enjoyed again and people always say they know this or that will happen and yeah sometimes maybe you can predict some things, but not everything.

If they do hate it so much you'd think they'd just stop watching, but they have to keep tuning in I dont care how they follow wrestling the point is they still follow it so call it IWC Trolling if you want, but these people cant be satisfied. I've never considered myself apart of the IWC just a nomad in area to combat the bullshit

I'm also extremely sick of seeing the overused words "mark" and "smark" I mean really.. wtf?! There is no point of even calling someone that anymore. To me it has become overused and really has no meaning nothing behind it. If you say shit all day long it eventually will just get annoying and no one's gonna care


I wouldnt say not real I'd just stick to the word scripted instead of fake or not real. It's real, but scripted action

There is a Tooth Fairy... The Rock, see it in theaters.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

OMG, every fucking day with this shit. You know how everyone that bitches about "the IWC" (despite being a member of it themselves) always says "if you don't like it, don't watch it"? Well has it ever occurred to you that if you don't like the forums, don't go to them?

Not everyone complains 24/7. They only complain about the things that they don't like. Were there people groaning about Edge winning? Yes. Were there people excited and happy about it? Yes. You all keep saying that everyone focuses on the negatives yet nobody ever wants to pay attention to the positive criticism that the WWE does get. Remember how HBK vs Taker has gone virtually an entire year straight with people saying it was one of the greatest matches?

And if we're supposed to view the WWE as "sports entertainment" and not a real sport, since we know it's scripted, then why can't we criticize the creative decisions like we do every other TV show or movie out there? Nobody ever answers that question. Have you ever viewed a film or a sitcom or anything of the sort and said "wow, that sucked" or "why did they cast Keanu Reeves" or blah blah blah? The same applies to the WWE.

Goddamn, people, am I the only one tired of all the people bitching about how people bitch?

 

[RockNWag]

OMG, every fucking day with this shit. You know how everyone that bitches about "the IWC" (despite being a member of it themselves) always says "if you don't like it, don't watch it"? Well has it ever occurred to you that if you don't like the forums, don't go to them?

Not everyone complains 24/7. They only complain about the things that they don't like. Were there people groaning about Edge winning? Yes. Were there people excited and happy about it? Yes. You all keep saying that everyone focuses on the negatives yet nobody ever wants to pay attention to the positive criticism that the WWE does get. Remember how HBK vs Taker has gone virtually an entire year straight with people saying it was one of the greatest matches?

And if we're supposed to view the WWE as "sports entertainment" and not a real sport, since we know it's scripted, then why can't we criticize the creative decisions like we do every other TV show or movie out there? Nobody ever answers that question. Have you ever viewed a film or a sitcom or anything of the sort and said "wow, that sucked" or "why did they cast Keanu Reeves" or blah blah blah? The same applies to the WWE.

Goddamn, people, am I the only one tired of all the people bitching about how people bitch?

It's not about people being mad about Edge winning. It's about people being mad that WWE LET Edge win. They always acknowledge that it's scripted rather than enjoying the show.