American Region, Semi-Finals: (1) Trish Stratus vs (3) Victoria

[Bernkastel]

This is a fifth round/semi-final match in the American region. It is a standard match. It will be held at Madison Square Garden in New York City, New York.

#1 Trish Stratus

VS.

#3 Victoria ​

There will be 1 day of discussion before the poll opens. It will remain open for 3 days. Spam rules will apply. In case of a tie the winner will be decided based upon how many people have made a case for them in the discussion thread. One per each poster.

Who wins the match up?

 

[Lowdown]

Another even match. I like both women here, and they both can put on a great match, especially against each other. Trish is the hall of famer here, and Victoria deserves to go in at some point as well. Stratus had more of a mass appeal than Victoria I believe, primarily due to being with WWE for so long. But.... Victoria is the better wrestler and I believe she's been in the game longer (please correct me if I'm wrong). I've been more of a fan for Victoria/Tara, so she gets my vote.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

In the last round I voted for Victoria / Tara to beat the Fabulous Moolah and I also voted for Manami Toyota to defeat Trish Stratus... many might find it strange that I will now vote for Trish to defeat Victoria.

I don't know if anyone is aware of this but neither of these ladies has stepped into the squared circle with anyone more than each other, no other female wrestler comes close. In one on one televised bouts Trish has Victoria beaten 12 bouts to 4... it's kinda hard to get past that. One plus Victoria might be given is that she did take the Women's Belt of Trish one-on-one whereas Trish ended both Victoria's reigns in multi-people matches... but then again this is straight match and the one-on-one was a Hardcore Match. All in all, I still have to go with Trish.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

God damn I don't know who to vote for here. Leaning towards Trish because of her record against Tara but gonna have to think about this one.

 

[BigBombB]

Definitely Trish Stratus. As much as I was a huge fan of Victoria back in the day, Trish managed to create some of the biggest moments in women's wrestling history. She developed a style similar to many of the top male wrestlers, with a lot of moves that received big pops, and used them effectively to make nearly all of her later career matches worth watching. While the flip side is that Victoria has never had major stinkers like Trish has, I think it all still balances in Trish's favor.

 

[Mustang Sally]

In one on one televised bouts Trish has Victoria beaten 12 bouts to 4... it's kinda hard to get past that.

This illustrates the problem I've faced with every match; I keep wanting to judge it on what would happen if they really had to wrestle.....not perform, as pro wrestlers do. That also points to why I've been having trouble figuring who would win a match between old-timers like June Byers vs. the sports entertainers like Trish. I feel Byers had to do a lot more actual wrestling, and that while results of the contests were usually pre-scripted, the winner was more often the wrestler with superior ring skills, not the one who was given the win because they sell the most merchandise.

Do I know this for a fact? No, I don't; it was before my time.

Still, I'm going to predict this one the same as earlier matches, as if the skill of the participants is the determining factor. For that reason, I think Victoria would wrestle Trish to defeat any day of the week.

I recognize that Trish is probably going to win this tournament but I've voted against her in each round because as a wrestler, she makes a good fitness model.

 

[nightmare]

Once Trish started wrestling instead of managing, she became the woman to beat & stayed at the top of the mountain for pretty much the entire time. She was the standard that most audiences gauged what talent was supposed to be during the resurgence of women's wrestling in the early 2000's. Pretty no longer meant useless in the ring thanks to Trish.


LMV was damn good & has beaten Trish a few times, but she was never considered in that same regard as Stratus was. Lisa managed to get to the top of the mountain, but her reign was sandwiched in the middle of the decade that Trish seemingly owned. She has made a few good runs in a strong TNA division & that certainly helps her case, but I really cant say that is enough to vote her over Trish- someone she has a losing record against.



So I feel confident in voting Trish Stratus due to the winning record, personal preference & impact of her legacy.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

This illustrates the problem I've faced with every match; I keep wanting to judge it on what would happen if they really had to wrestle.....not perform, as pro wrestlers do. That also points to why I've been having trouble figuring who would win a match between old-timers like June Byers vs. the sports entertainers like Trish. I feel Byers had to do a lot more actual wrestling, and that while results of the contests were usually pre-scripted, the winner was more often the wrestler with superior ring skills, not the one who was given the win because they sell the most merchandise.

Do I know this for a fact? No, I don't; it was before my time.

Still, I'm going to predict this one the same as earlier matches, as if the skill of the participants is the determining factor. For that reason, I think Victoria would wrestle Trish to defeat any day of the week.

I recognize that Trish is probably going to win this tournament but I've voted against her in each round because as a wrestler, she makes a good fitness model.

Possibly but both had similar credentials prior to wrestling - Trish in sports like soccer and field hockey & fitness modeling and Victoria in track sports, cheerleadering & bodybuilding so possibly not just a guarantee. Victoria might have the size and strength advantage but then again Mildred Burke was only 5'2" and 138lbs and only lost once in approximately 200 bouts against men...

Like the main WZT, I'm not a great fan of the "but they're legit hard" argument. Under that type of scrutiny; Ken Shamrock > Taker, Austin, Hogan, Rock, HBK, Sting etc. My favorite two female wrestlers are on the other side of the bracket and I prefer Victoria to Trish but I can't find a legit reason to vote for her - the edge goes to Stratus on actual head to head, accolades, win/loss records, charisma and business impact (whether her influence is good or bad is another argument); Victoria can be argued to be the more polished performer in the ring but that can even be subjective as the likes of Hogan and Cena have been decried in this regard but would you argue that Steamboat, DiBiase, Hennig, Ziggler etc should go over them? The only true 'tick' Victoria can be given is longevity but not to enough of a Toyota degree for me to overlook all the edges Stratus has.

 

[Mustang Sally]

....the edge goes to Stratus on actual head to head, accolades, win/loss records, charisma and business impact

Can't argue with any of that and it's part of the reason it's tough to measure results in these fantasy contests. Admittedly, I'm not factoring any of that in; I'm going more on:

If Trish Stratus and Victoria walk into a room and only one walks out......which one would it be?

I say Victoria.

Under that type of scrutiny; Ken Shamrock > Taker, Austin, Hogan, Rock, HBK, Sting etc.

Reminds me of the age-old argument: Who would win in a head-to-head.....a boxer or wrestler? How do you measure?

My solution: The boxer wins if they stay on their feet....the wrestler wins if he succeeds in taking the fight to the mat. What do you think?

Mildred Burke was only 5'2" and 138lbs

Seriously? I didn't know that. Compare it with.....well, me. I'm an inch taller but she outweighs me by 33 friggin' pounds! Can you imagine what we'd look like standing next to each other?

Also, according to the criteria I listed above......Mildred would be the one to walk out of the room, not me.

 

[Bernkastel]

Tough call on this one. Trish was more popular. She also had far more charisma. I think any Victoria/Tara fan would concede that. Though Varon was quite charismatic herself. Lisa had more longevity with her career. Clearly. And even though Trish was a record 7 time WWE women's champ, Lisa held both that title multiple times during the divisions high point, and the TNA women's multiple times during its divisions high point. She had a far more diversified career so she takes that point. Trish was a better worker and had raw ability that practically nobody else had. Trish also had more of an impact on the industry and the product. And her favorable legacy with WWE will always paint her as one of the greatest. And certain so, of the modern era.

So...

Popularity/Drawing power - Trish
Charisma - Trish
Accolades - Lisa
Ability - Trish
Longevity - Lisa
Overall legacy and impact - Trish

4 categories to 2 categories I've got to give the nod to Trish here.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

Can't argue with any of that and it's part of the reason it's tough to measure results in these fantasy contests. Admittedly, I'm not factoring any of that in; I'm going more on:

If Trish Stratus and Victoria walk into a room and only one walks out......which one would it be?

I say Victoria.

That may well be the case... then again you have to believe that Burke was taking on men taller, heavier and much stronger than herself. There's an old saying attributed to Mark Twain - "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog". Just because Victoria is taller, heavier and stronger doesn't immediately hold to her being better - we have to remember that neither lady has any legitimate fighting expertise.

Reminds me of the age-old argument: Who would win in a head-to-head.....a boxer or wrestler? How do you measure?

My solution: The boxer wins if they stay on their feet....the wrestler wins if he succeeds in taking the fight to the mat. What do you think?

In the case of Shamrock walking into a room with Taker, Austin, Hogan, Rock, HBK, Sting etc? I think my money would definitely be on the guy who was a full contact champion walking out (even though his opponents might be taller, heavier and stronger).

Seriously? I didn't know that. Compare it with.....well, me. I'm an inch taller but she outweighs me by 33 friggin' pounds! Can you imagine what we'd look like standing next to each other?

Also, according to the criteria I listed above......Mildred would be the one to walk out of the room, not me.

And from what I've read on Burke many men and women who outsize her in all aspects wouldn't either; so, like I said, immediate physical impressions on actual toughness can be very deceiving. You mentioned boxing earlier - four of boxing's most iconic heavyweight champions were Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield; four more illustrations of Mr Twain's quote.

5'3" Sal? You'd tower over my 4'11" 'wee' sis then.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

There is no doubt in my mind that Victoria/Tara is the better wrestler of the two. She is the superior athlete and was immediately a top contender for Trish's women's title, taking the belt from her just a few months into her first serious run on the roster.

Trish was awful as an in-ring performer when he first came to WWE but she did become an very solid wrestler by the time she retired and was undoubtably the face of women's wrestling in WWE, but it was girls like Victoria and Molly Holly who were the backbone of the division, having excellent matches with everyone.

Victoria has beaten a wider range of opponents than Trish, having been a multi-time champion in TNA as well, and has that mean streak that means she'd stop at nothing to take down Stratus in this match. She's got the size and strength advantage and could quite easily overpower Trish, and if she connected with the Widows Peak...Trish ain't gettin' up from that.

Don't be convinced by the enormous boobs and bleached blonde hair, Victoria is the better WRESTLER.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Trish was awful as an in-ring performer when he first came to WWE but she did become an very solid wrestler by the time she retired and was undoubtably the face of women's wrestling in WWE

She may not have been THE best, but the fact of the matter is that Trish made the improvements that were needed for her to become more than just another attractive female wrestler. Not only did she improve but as you yourself stated, she became the face of the division. Her popularity and accomplishments made her become the standard that every single diva after her has had to live up to. Trish in her prime was top tier in every single category whether it be in-ring skills, mic skills, accomplishments, championship tier dominance, and even her physical appearance. You don't have to be the best of the best, there will never be a perfect diva, but Trish Stratus was the closest any has ever come to that and will likely be for a very long time.

Victoria has beaten a wider range of opponents than Trish, having been a multi-time champion in TNA as well, and has that mean streak that means she'd stop at nothing to take down Stratus in this match. She's got the size and strength advantage and could quite easily overpower Trish, and if she connected with the Widows Peak...Trish ain't gettin' up from that.

This did need to get addressed. Yes, Trish never worked in TNA. However, had the opportunity presented itself and she had gone to TNA, then I guarantee you she would have been pushed to be at the top of their division. Look at how they treated a lot of former stars of other federations upon joining, Victoria/Tara herself being an example of this. Her run as Tara was great and Victoria definitely deserves to have made it this far in this tournament, but if they feuded in TNA I do not see it ending much differently than their match results in WWE did. Trish would have been just as dominant as a Knockout Champion setting records over there as well had she been given the opportunity and accepted it. Oh, and don't forget that Trish main evented Raw. You know, the flagship show of the biggest federation in the world, the same one where Trish set records that may never be broken, during her division's most popular time.

Don't be convinced by the enormous boobs and bleached blonde hair, Victoria is the better WRESTLER.

Unlike many matches in this tournament, these two actually faced each other on multiple occasions. Trish was the winner of nearly all of these as FitFinlay4Life already pointed out. We're not talking about Kelly Kelly here. We're talking about the greatest diva of all time and one of the best female wrestlers in history, Trish Stratus. Victoria would put up a fantastic effort, but Trish would win in the end against her in a pro wrestling match. This isn't a "real" fight. Look at the accomplishments and the dominance.

Vote Trish.

 

[Bernkastel]

There is no doubt in my mind that Victoria/Tara is the better wrestler of the two. She is the superior athlete and was immediately a top contender for Trish's women's title, taking the belt from her just a few months into her first serious run on the roster.

This is fine.

Trish was awful as an in-ring performer when he first came to WWE but she did become an very solid wrestler by the time she retired and was undoubtably the face of women's wrestling in WWE, but it was girls like Victoria and Molly Holly who were the backbone of the division, having excellent matches with everyone.

This is not fine.

Aren't you forgetting the fact that Victoria debuted in the company as another untrained, talentless performer? What was her profession? Oh yeah... Godfather Ho. So she went from that to multi time champion. She wasn't all that different from Trish, especially when you factor in that she was trained by similar people.

Victoria has beaten a wider range of opponents than Trish, having been a multi-time champion in TNA as well, and has that mean streak that means she'd stop at nothing to take down Stratus in this match.

Meaning her longevity was better.

She's got the size and strength advantage and could quite easily overpower Trish, and if she connected with the Widows Peak...Trish ain't gettin' up from that.

In just about every feud that Trish ever had she was the smaller woman in the match. Even Lita towered over Trish. Didn't stop her from kicking Victoria's ass, or Jazz's ass, or Mickie's ass, or Beth's ass post retirement.

Don't be convinced by the enormous boobs and bleached blonde hair, Victoria is the better WRESTLER.

Trish had breast reduction surgery late into her run. Which is notable because most women in the WWE at the time were getting them in order to stand out. And Victoria was no exception. So I guess late in her run she no longer needed big fake boobs in order to stand out.

 

[FitFinlay4Life]

In just about every feud that Trish ever had she was the smaller woman in the match. Even Lita towered over Trish. Didn't stop her from kicking Victoria's ass, or Jazz's ass, or Mickie's ass, or Beth's ass post retirement.

I have expressed my feelings on the bigger = better philosophy but, in the interests of fairness, I do need to point out that Jazz and Mickie far from towered over Trish.

... and as for the "kicking Mickie's ass"... hope you ain't taking an opening salvo for the potential final sir...