Canadian Region, Regional Finals: (1) Fabulous Moolah vs (3) Victoria

Discussion in 'Canada Region' started by Bernkastel, Jan 31, 2015.

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Who wins this match up?

  1. Fabulous Moolah

  2. Victoria

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  1. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    This is a fourth round match in the Canadian region. It is a standard match. It will be held at the Rogers Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    #1 Fabulous Moolah

    VS.

    [​IMG]

    #3 Victoria

    There will be 1 day of discussion before the poll opens. It will remain open for 2 days. Spam rules will apply. In case of a tie the winner will be decided based upon how many people have made a case for them in the discussion thread. One per each poster.

    Who wins the match up?
     
    #1
  2. Mustang Sally

    Mustang Sally Sells seashells by the seashore

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    See, this is the problem that recurs when trying to pick contests between people who've spent their careers in pre-scripted activity. Do we rate them based on the success they've been given by the bookers (or Creative people) during their careers.....or on how they'd do if they really had to wrestle for their livings?

    In the former, Moolah wins the whole tournament, no? No one was champion as long as she. Even if she suddenly found herself in a shoot match, she presumably had picked up plenty of wrestling knowledge over the years just by being in the ring against so many women.

    But if she had to wrestle for real, someone who really knew the sport could beat her, especially later in Moolah's long, long career. Anyway, that's the way I'm treating this match....and given Victoria's top-notch wrestling ability, I'll pick her.
     
    #2
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  3. Lowdown

    Lowdown Ooh baby I like it roooaaaaw!

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    It's easy to vote Moolah based on her longevity, but this is a bit tricky. Much like the last round I was hard pressed to lean towards Moolah over Sherri solely based on her generations and championships in the business. In the end I voted for Sherri it off sheer fandom. It's looking that way for Victoria now. I will say this, if this were a match that took page in the 60's, Moolah would probably come out on top. Thing is, I think Victoria is the better athlete between the two, so she has a slight edge. I think I'm going Victoria here, but I reserve the right to change my mind when the polls open.
     
    #3
  4. FitFinlay4Life

    FitFinlay4Life What's the craic?

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    Moolah is basically Andre mixed with Thesz in terms of this tournament - WWF kayfabe states she had an undefeated 28 year title reign... unfortunately for Moolah, the kayfabe is bull and she not only had a number of defeats but she also had title defeats.

    No one can argue against Moolah going through in this match-up but Tara will be getting my vote because she is the epitome of what an all round female wrestler should be in the modern age. You have to believe that poor Moolah wouldn't even make it to the WWe if she'd debuted in the last 25 years.
     
    #4
  5. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    She also had long periods of inactivity where she did basically nothing. Her consistency through those later years were utterly terrible. And even before that things were terrible. Moolah didn't like Billy Wolfe and refused to work for him. And instead she worked for Jack Pfefer - who was known for exposing and nearly destroying the industry years earlier. And for launching Buddy Rogers... who was instrumental in the events leading to the creation of the WWE. Wolfe's death in the early 60's was a real blow to the industry. And the untimely death of his son 4 years later is what IMO killed the women's industry in the US.

    So pretty much the first 10 years of Moolah's 28 year title reign is all that really mattered. What followed were several failed attempts to restart the industry in the US and a failed attempt to generate a boom period in Japan. By the 1970's the Japanese were the only people in the world making money off women's wrestling, while Moolah and the NWA title were afterthoughts.

    For those first 10 years though, Moolah was a great champion. She defended the belt often as sanctioned by the NWA committee. And she was very charismatic. People liked her. She made Pfefer some serious money. He just did not have the pull in the NWA that the Wolfe's had. And I know that the reputation of women's wrestling suffered in the eyes of the NWA committee after the Burke/Wolfe fallout. So perhaps they thought "ah, fuck it" during Moolah's final years as champion.

    I can see arguments for Victoria. Successful in not one big company but two. She wrestled during WWE's women's divisions "golden era" and TNA's extended boom period for their division. One thing is for certain... Victoria has fought and defeated a wider range of better talent than Moolah did during those first 10 years. With victories over Trish/Lita/Mickie James/Gail Kim/ODB/And Awesome Kong... the biggest names Moolah defeated were June Byers and Penny Banner. And both were past their primes. Otherwise Moolah didn't have competition on her level. And every time the NWA tried to build someone in the 60's it failed.

    Longevity wise, Moolah was better and her legacy was undoubtedly better. And the first decade of her title reign was important. As was the first few years of her "WWE" career. Her feud with Richter is what recreated the boom in North America. Granted it fizzled out after a few years, but it was admirable that they managed to do what they did with women's wrestling not being a staple in the industry for over a decade prior. She was a better draw than Victoria during those early times too. So despite seeing the arguments for Victoria I don't think she's quite good enough to knock Moolah out. Though I don't see her getting past the semi's. Those that are left are all heavy hitters.

    I'm voting Moolah, albeit it should still be close.
     
    #5
  6. Skairipa Matrix

    Skairipa Matrix 3 Time Elite Openweight Champion
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    Voting Victoria. Unlike Moolah she competed during a time where you couldn't be an inactive champion and she has defeated and faced many more big names just in this tournament alone.
     
    #6
  7. Bernkastel

    Bernkastel Reaper of Miracles
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    That's not true. Trish was inactive in 2005 with an injury, and wasn't stripped of the belt. The NWA was still doing very good business through the 70's. Just not with the women, so it made no sense to strip Moolah of the belt at that time.

    And while Victoria was a major player during that "golden era" she was never the biggest name. Moolah was even in her later years with the WWE. Even when she won the belt in 1999 she was still considered to be a huge name. And her winning the belt was treated like a big deal.

    And while Victoria was decorated, I just don't feel that she had the consistency, ability, or charisma needed to take down prime Moolah.
     
    #7
  8. Skairipa Matrix

    Skairipa Matrix 3 Time Elite Openweight Champion
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    Ah I didn't know that, there was a brief span around 2005 where I wasn't watching.

    Well for me, Victoria has wins over more top ladies and I always liked her so I'm still gonna give her my vote unless something really convinces me to sway in the other direction.
     
    #8
  9. Hollywood Naitch

    Hollywood Naitch The current reigning and defending

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    I honestly think Victoria should go through here- she has every tool in the book needed to beat any and all challengers. She can wrestle better than arguably any women WWE have ever employed, she's stronger than 90% of the women she's faced, she's tough with a vicious mean streak and her finishing move "The Widow's Peak" is devastating.

    Moolah has the incredible legacy, but like other posters have said- you can poke holes in that "title reign", with periods of inactivity and uncredited losses. There basically just wasn't the competition for Moolah that there has been during Victoria's career. She's beaten the likes of Trish, Lita, Mickie, Awesome Kong, Angelina Love, Gail Kim and many more. She's got the talent, the looks and the mean streak to put away Fabulous Moolah, even in her prime. If Victoria had been active at the same time as Moolah, the "Fabulous one" would NOT have had that ridiculous title reign.

    Vote Victoria.
     
    #9
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  10. Planet_Velvet

    Planet_Velvet www.planetvelvet.net

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    Moolah should always be held in high regards because of her accomplishments. Truthfully, we are speaking of two different eras here. Training methods and competition have evolved as had the women in wrestling before we were cursed with the Divas division. Nonetheless, I would have to lean toward Victoria.
     
    #10
  11. Reflection

    Reflection is a happier and wiser man

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    Whether a person's sins live after death is another debate, but... A backstabber, sexual assaulter, pimp, and cheat that paid younger female wrestlers half of their pay, that continued to show up and went over younger women about 40 years past her prime, or a gorgeous woman and agile wrestler that actually earned her spot in high competition, never seemed to have a problem putting over others, spent her own money behind promoting the company in her hometown, and opened a place to eat and discuss wrestling after retirement? I'd pick the latter any day.
     
    #11
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