Alvarez: "TNA's Brand is Shattered"; Re-Brand Necessary?

[It's Damn Real!]

Brian Alvarez was a guest on JR's Ross Report podcast this past week and spoke at short length (they spoke for like 10 minutes after spending an hour discussing the last WWE PPV) about everything going on at TNA right now — the cancellation notice with DA, not wanting companies to go under, etc. The usual suspects, really. He went on and on about how if this were any other company in any other industry they'd have been out of business years ago based on never learning to actually be a business because they were just floated by Panda Energy's savior bucks.

But one of the sort of takeaways from the circular discussions we've heard for a month plus now about the company circling the drain was actually a suggestion/question from JR after Alvarez—and I'm paraphrasing—regarded TNA/Impact's "brand" as "shattered". The term I've been using is "damaged", but perhaps "shattered" is more á propos considering the state the company is in right now. I'm not sure. Linguistically speaking, I'm not sure it matters, but semantics are semantics. Either way, Ross' response was effectively to suggest or ask Alvarez if he thought that a complete re-brand was something they should be thinking about doing, to which Alvarez responded with—again, I'm paraphrasing—something like "yeah, maybe".

We've had this discussion a few times around here before, in various degrees and angles, so let me say again that I am not at all opposed to re-branding. I know it may have come off that way in the past because I've spoken about things like how TNA has "built in equity" in their name and their existing brand, but there comes a point where what you have invested in your brand may not actually be worth the actual damage to the structure itself. I'd liken it to owning a crappy old apartment building in an up-and-coming neighborhood. The land itself might actually be worth more than the shitty building, which is probably better served being torn down and having something new built on top of it that can rent for greater numbers with happier tenants, even though it means having to pump a lot more money in up front, today for a brighter future tomorrow.

Is TNA there yet? I'm not sure. I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to know with certainty one way or another. But I do know that when I do simple tasks like click "view more comments" on their Facebook posts, or simply view the barrage of responses they get to their Tweets, or view the comments on articles that mention them, their show, their wrestlers, etc. the overwhelming majority of the feedback is brutally negative. The feedback to the company name itself when it's invoked is brutally negative. So maybe it's time? Or maybe it's too little too late?

Again, I'm not at all opposed to re-branding. Not inherently. I think they did a really poor job of it when they went from "TNA iMPACT!" to "IMPACT Wrestling", becuase even to this day it's not clear, no matter how many times its explained (and if you have to explain it, marketing-wise, you've failed) that the company name never changed. That they're still TNA, and the show is IMPACT Wrestling, because the way it's mentioned on broadcasts, that's not the case. Perception is reality, and the perception is that the show, the company, etc. are called IMPACT Wrestling.

Regardless, these things are often spoken about as if you flip a light switch and, voilà — brand new show/company. It's really not that simple at all. It takes a truck load of money—and this is a company who are rumored to not pay their own employees on time, who have reportedly hemorrhaged money in/out for years—to successfully pull this off. It's more than a new logo and a few new colors. It costs to hire a PR group to write up the press when it's all said and done and get the new message out there. It costs to hire an agency or group to come up with the new company name, logo and the miles and miles of merchandise and collateral it's stamped on. It costs to re-print all those new wrestlers' t-shirts and posters and other apparel. It costs to come up with all new broadcast graphics to run on your television show... which is apparently being cancelled in Q3 of this year.

All-in-all, at least from an outsiders' perspective, it feels like a re-brand at this point is too little too late. But maybe not.

What do you think?

 

[klunderbunker]

As bluntly as it sounds, no it's not going to help that much when you have a company that makes as many goofy mistakes as they make. All these stories that come out about not being able to pay its employees and then stuff like the scheduling issues that are making Slammiversary look less important than the two TV shows around them and Bram fighting Joseph Park because that's what he does in TNA are what damage TNA more than their name.

It doesn't matter if you change the name if the same braintrust is still destroying this place and making it look like a company that isn't run as well as an indy company run at a local YMCA. The TV product is acceptable enough, but all that stuff that gets out from behind the curtain is killing the company more than anything else. A name change isn't going to fix that.

 

[Seosa]

I definitely agree with you on the matter of the last rebranding. It never made sense in the first place and has felt ridiculous ever since. For me, it was the rebranding from TNA into IMPACT (whilst still being TNA) that symbolically represented the downfall of the company. There's the issue of content quality and finances, etc., but symbolically the downfall has coincided with the rebranding.

What I mean is that just as the company began losing its spirit and quality in 2011, it also lost its identity. It's never regained that, in my opinion.

 

[ECPirate37]

I'd be happier if they dropped the Impact and went back to TNA. Yes, I know what TNA originally stood for, but at least TNA still has value to me. "Impact Wrestling" never really resonated with me. And honestly, when I talk about it with my friends (whom haven't watched it), I call it TNA.

I was hoping when they moved to Destination America, they would have created a different name, or went back to TNA. Especially since they were pushing six sides. Why not call it HEX wrestling or something playing up on the 6 sides.

I actually like the name HEX Wrestling. haha I just said that offhandedly and looking at it, it looks cool.

 

[pepentorresHHH]

Would It Help? Probably...... Is it Necessary? NO

For the fans here in the TNA section that don't watch any of WWE`s product let me tell you about WWE`s developmental system.... its called NXT and currently IMO its the best hour of wrestling Bar None....

1 hour brings us great matches, smart booking, all divisions have depth and logic with characters that we know and love. sounds great right? Well back in 2010-2011 NXT was known as the place where people had to compete in "challenges" each week to survive and earn a place on the roster. To say the product was ridiculous and hard to watch is an understatement .

Triple H comes along, revolutionizes the entire structure and fired all the writers, hired 1 sole person to write the entire show, hires legends that actually know what the hell is going on, spent a little money bringing in promising talent from the indies. Basically he turns the worst and most embarrassing part of WWE in the fastest growing brand in Wrestling.

The point of the story is..... NXT was the name in 2010 and to this day the name of the brand is NXT. The problem is not the name of the show or brand or company. What they need to do is keep the stories simple, let the wrestlers do what the do best, and get someone who knows the business and can run a company in charge. If HHH (one of the most hated guys in wrestling who is frequently accused of doing wrong because of ego) can right this ship, Im sure Dixie can step aside and find someone who can turn TNA into the NXT level

 

[It's Damn Real!]

Would It Help? Probably...... Is it Necessary? NO

For the fans here in the TNA section that don't watch any of WWE`s product let me tell you about WWE`s developmental system.... its called NXT and currently IMO its the best hour of wrestling Bar None....

1 hour brings us great matches, smart booking, all divisions have depth and logic with characters that we know and love. sounds great right? Well back in 2010-2011 NXT was known as the place where people had to compete in "challenges" each week to survive and earn a place on the roster. To say the product was ridiculous and hard to watch is an understatement .

Triple H comes along, revolutionizes the entire structure and fired all the writers, hired 1 sole person to write the entire show, hires legends that actually know what the hell is going on, spent a little money bringing in promising talent from the indies. Basically he turns the worst and most embarrassing part of WWE in the fastest growing brand in Wrestling.

The point of the story is..... NXT was the name in 2010 and to this day the name of the brand is NXT. The problem is not the name of the show or brand or company. What they need to do is keep the stories simple, let the wrestlers do what the do best, and get someone who knows the business and can run a company in charge. If HHH (one of the most hated guys in wrestling who is frequently accused of doing wrong because of ego) can right this ship, Im sure Dixie can step aside and find someone who can turn TNA into the NXT level

Well, you're partially right.

Certainly about simple stories. Wrestling is always most effective when it's straight forward and doesn't take itself too seriously or try to achieve too much through its stories.

Certainly about letting the wrestlers do what they do best. Though I'd argue TNA already do this. And have for years. The complaints about the company are rarely about the talent itself.

Certainly about running the business better. KB touched on some of the things they're sort of renowned for fucking up, which in turn puts a sour/negative spin on everything they stand for.

But there's kind of a critical flaw in your logic here. Triple H. You're not wrong when you say he's one of the most hated guys in wrestling who is frequently accused of doing wrong because of ego. You are wrong when you fail to recognize that the reason that doesn't hurt him or WWE is because it's WWE. Because WWE is already a household name and a legacy brand that really can't be hurt in the same manner or degree TNA can when both companies do the same thing — put someone in charge who people hate.

If Triple H passes on a golden ticket, it's mostly laughed off as "oh well". If TNA do the same thing, it's because Dixie is a fucking moron who knows nothing about wrestling, and is a stupid bitch who should sell the company to someone who knows what they're talking about, etc. etc.

Your comparison to NXT makes sense on paper, but kind of falls apart when you recognize who actually owns NXT. There's simply a longer leash and a significantly greater amount of patience for a WWE product by default. WWE don't have to fight as hard to get eyes.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Well, you're partially right.

Certainly about simple stories. Wrestling is always most effective when it's straight forward and doesn't take itself too seriously or try to achieve too much through its stories.

Certainly about letting the wrestlers do what they do best. Though I'd argue TNA already do this. And have for years. The complaints about the company are rarely about the talent itself.

Certainly about running the business better. KB touched on some of the things they're sort of renowned for fucking up, which in turn puts a sour/negative spin on everything they stand for.

But there's kind of a critical flaw in your logic here. Triple H. You're not wrong when you say he's one of the most hated guys in wrestling who is frequently accused of doing wrong because of ego. You are wrong when you fail to recognize that the reason that doesn't hurt him or WWE is because it's WWE. Because WWE is already a household name and a legacy brand that really can't be hurt in the same manner or degree TNA can when both companies do the same thing — put someone in charge who people hate.

If Triple H passes on a golden ticket, it's mostly laughed off as "oh well". If TNA do the same thing, it's because Dixie is a fucking moron who knows nothing about wrestling, and is a stupid bitch who should sell the company to someone who knows what they're talking about, etc. etc.

Your comparison to NXT makes sense on paper, but kind of falls apart when you recognize who actually owns NXT. There's simply a longer leash and a significantly greater amount of patience for a WWE product by default. WWE don't have to fight as hard to get eyes.

Gee, for a company which is allegedly SO terrible, than TNA should get credit for one thing- for still being around for over ten years.

This is a company people have said is terrible for many, many years, yet it still exists. So it must be doing something right.

TNA has lasted longer than the original ECW. Which just shows that, getting TV deals and sponsors are far more important than the paying audience.

ECW may have been more loved, but TNA is here. I would rather not be as loved and still exist, than be a company which was loved, but is dead.

Also, both Triple H and Dixie Carter are hated for the same reason that Vince and Stephanie are hated, because they are running the company, and many wrestling fans project their own hatred of authority or their boss onto anyone who runs a company.

Again, another person firming up over NXT. I know that everything NXT does is pissing gold. BUt you can't have it both ways. Either acknowledge that Triple H is a genius with what he has done with NXT, or he isn't and NXT isn't a success.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

I think rebranding is a good start. I still go back to the Shane Douglas way of doing it and have a new champion cut a scathing promo and toss the belt away in favor of a new title, new name, and ultimately new brand.

Or hell, TNA ran takeover NWO derivatives for years. Have one of those factions actually take over and build your rebranding through that.

Maybe they can or are using the DA relationship to cross promote with ROH.

But mostly they should drop Dixie as the face of the company. She doesn't deserve the hate she gets but perception is reality and while she is still seen as "in charge", TNA will leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

 

[Charismatic Enigma]

Its a mixed bag. The name TNA was always stupid from day one, even if you disregard the obvious tits and ass, calling a company "Total Nonstop Action" just sounds like improper english, and also it says nothing. World WRESTLING entertainment, RING of honor, Ultimate FIGHTING championship, National FOOTBALL league, I could go and on but you get the idea. What did TNA ever really mean?

Impact Wrestling is/was the name of show, but this weird brand confusion only diluted their identity further. Rebranding at this point however, wouldn't do much to acquire a new audience. I legitimately think the best thing they could ever do, would be to try and cross promote super card shows with ROH, NJPW, AAA, etc.

They need a new identity though, not just in name only. The 6 sided ring needs to go. They need to have compelling product again, they need a better network home. Basically they need to start over, and in their current financial situation coupled with their bad reputation, I think it's just too late for that at this point. In a perfect world, they just have a merger with ROH, and only the good parts of the company survive, mainly their production values.

 

[Lowdown]

A rebranding wouldn't hurt, but it's not the answer to all of TNA's issues. I'm not sure what direction to go in for the rebranding as I know little about it. However, I do agree that while TNA has made several mistakes they had to have done some things right in order to have made it this far. The main focus, in my opinion, would be to put a lot more focus into the stories and in ring action.

 

[Rayne]

If TNA were to commit to a rebranding, they'd be committing to continued operations of the company (the investments IDR explained in detail have to have time to pay themselves off), which is something that they can't guarantee since they're at the mercy of a TV deal. Yikes. That's the kind of 'shit or get off' decision that'll have some TNA executive pushing rocks, because it's unquestionably a last resort strategy.

If I were in charge, I would have sold the company two years ago when they weren't in great shape but had brand equity. But we're talking about today. If my end goal is maximizing the amount of chips I have in my possession before I cash out, I ride TNA from TV deal to internet streaming to closure, spending as little as possible on production. If my end goal is to make this company succeed and damn the risk of loss, I rebrand starting first thing in the morning.

I am completely unsure as to what a TNA executive would do.

Gee, for a company which is allegedly SO terrible, than TNA should get credit for one thing- for still being around for over ten years.

You can give that credit to Panda Energy. If you are willing to lose an unlimited amount of capital, you can keep a business operating for an unlimited amount of time with unlimited deficits. This is getting to be a popular argument around here, so I'll point it out as the example of 'moving the goalposts' that it is.

A couple of years ago, the argument was "is TNA profitable". We all remember how sides were picked in that argument, and how one of them turned out to be completely and utterly correct. The idea was that profit = success, which, this is an American company, so yeah. The definition for success that people are trying to apply now is "is TNA still around", and the natural progression from that would be "they were around for xx years, of course they were a success."

To dispense with the argument; a 45-year old heroin junkie is not a life success story because he had a family that kept driving him to the emergency room, while his friend OD'd alone in his apartment.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Would It Help? Probably...... Is it Necessary? NO

For the fans here in the TNA section that don't watch any of WWE`s product let me tell you about WWE`s developmental system.... its called NXT and currently IMO its the best hour of wrestling Bar None....

Seriously? NXT has nothing on Lucha Underground. Hell even as a wrestling show, I would put ROH over NXT. NXT is a squash match show for the most part with an occasional good live special every now and then. Stop overrating this crap and watch other prowrestling outside of WWE before making such claims.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

If TNA were to commit to a rebranding, they'd be committing to continued operations of the company (the investments IDR explained in detail have to have time to pay themselves off), which is something that they can't guarantee since they're at the mercy of a TV deal. Yikes. That's the kind of 'shit or get off' decision that'll have some TNA executive pushing rocks, because it's unquestionably a last resort strategy.

If I were in charge, I would have sold the company two years ago when they weren't in great shape but had brand equity. But we're talking about today. If my end goal is maximizing the amount of chips I have in my possession before I cash out, I ride TNA from TV deal to internet streaming to closure, spending as little as possible on production. If my end goal is to make this company succeed and damn the risk of loss, I rebrand starting first thing in the morning.

I am completely unsure as to what a TNA executive would do.

Right. I alluded to that in the OP. It's a tough spot, because even if they do decide to completely tear the old company image down and re-brand, ground up, they're doing so still operating at the mercy of whether or not DA intends to keep their television deal in place.

IF DA pulls the plug, this was all for naught, and you wasted a monumental amount of money re-branding a dead company.

 

[Fabulous Freebirds]

I would not take what Bryan Alvarez says with any sincerity.

He has been saying that the TNA brand has been shattered for the past 5 years; that's pretty much his shtick. He doesn't like the company, has had twitter wars with Bob Ryder and has a personal agenda against them and expresses it.

TNA is rebuilding. It's clear as day that they are rebuilding and re-branding. Look at who they are starting to focus on: EC3, Bram and now Jesse Godderz, Dollhouse, Taryn Terrell. That's young talent. Good, young talent.

Bryan Alvarez does not like TNA because they are not putting a show he HE likes. He does not speak for me.

So, whatever Alvarez says, it goes in one ear and out the other.

 

[TDFG]

Rebranding is the last thing TNA needs , TNA is beyond the stage of rebranding.

TNA needs to find a few places to build it's fan-base and do shows there, we're seeing that they're rebuilding with the likes of ECIII, Bram, Gunner, Spud etc, and they need to work on a PPV schedule.

We can talk all day about what TNA needs to do to make itself really relevant again, but on this article, Alvarez is wrong.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

They need new ownership not a re-brand. You can change the name all you want but when the same people run it, it will have the same problems.

They should have been sold two years ago but that got shot down because Dixie's Daddy wanted to make sure she still had a job. Nobody in their right mind wants her to have anything to do with the product. Sell it to someone who loves the business and wants it to grow. Stop using it as a platform to get your daughter screen time.

Louis is right about Alvarez. He is Meltzer's buddy. I think they share one brain.

Seriously? NXT has nothing on Lucha Underground. Hell even as a wrestling show, I would put ROH over NXT. NXT is a squash match show for the most part with an occasional good live special every now and then. Stop overrating this crap and watch other prowrestling outside of WWE before making such claims.

He said IMO in case you missed it.Now I don't understand how anyone could disagree with you because you are the all knowing but I guess it happens sometimes.

 

[rmp0012002]

I don't have an issue with rebranding and liked IMPACT WRESTLING as the new name rather than titty bar TNA. The problem is what do you change? You'll have the same wrestlers and the only knowledge the people running the company have of wrestling is what they see on WWE.

 

[New Hot Fed]

I think rebranding is a good start. I still go back to the Shane Douglas way of doing it and have a new champion cut a scathing promo and toss the belt away in favor of a new title, new name, and ultimately new brand.

Or hell, TNA ran takeover NWO derivatives for years. Have one of those factions actually take over and build your rebranding through that.

Maybe they can or are using the DA relationship to cross promote with ROH.

But mostly they should drop Dixie as the face of the company. She doesn't deserve the hate she gets but perception is reality and while she is still seen as "in charge", TNA will leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

I would be up for that. The first wrestling invasion where the invaders actually wins.

My first choice would be a NWA invasion so TNA could be re-branded as NWA in the end.

In my opinion Dixie Carter herself and the name "TNA" has always been big barriers for this company to reach success. There's not going around those two things. And a lot of shit this company gets is based on that.

Because wrestling is not real, first impressions and perceptions are everything. And this company backed by a spoiled princess who's out-of-touch in a man's medium and something called T & A is not something people that attracts the intended audience.

 

[hackerjack]

A re-brand won't help if all they do is re-brand TNA. The problem is Panda, a totally new promotion run by Panda will still be seen as the same idiots running the show (and rightly so).

 

[Jack-Hammer]

At this point, rebranding the company with a different name and logo is like applying a Band-Aid after being gutshot. Rebranding the TV show to Impact Wrestling was completely transparent and nobody really bought into it because it was just the same old same old with slightly different packaging. An actual example of rebranding is NXT as it ultimately went from being a failed TV show concept, thanks largely to Vince's "sports entertainment" crazed obsession supported by spineless yes men like Johnny Ace and Kevin Dunn, into something that TNA itself hasn't really been seen as for a very, very long time by a lot of fans: a viable alternative to the "mainstream" WWE format.

I think the only feasible shot TNA has of turning things around, though it's still not a particularly great shot, is for a complete overhaul from top to bottom including a different name, creative team, Bob Carter replacing Dixie, booking style, etc. Still, the damage has already been done and it'd take time to really flesh out the details while convincing fans that it wasn't just some cosmetic alteration; the problem is that TNA MIGHT not have that kind of time anymore.

 

[laodaron]

The brand isn't the problem. The problem is their shit booking, their shit writing, and their shit "homegrown" talents and WWE leftovers.

Look at it this way: TNA could STILL be considered a reasonable alternative to WWE style wrestling in the States if they weren't all just former WWE staffers, bookers, writers, wrestlers, and storylines from like 6 months ago. If I was getting bored with WWE Raw, I'd like an alternative to watch, not a really bad version of Raw from 6 months ago that I'm already tired of.

But they refuse to accept change. As much as Vince is criticized for his unwillingness to accept change, he's still running the top company in the US. It would really be better for TNA to fall apart and rebuild than it would for them to try and rebrand.

 

[Messiah]

Seriously? NXT has nothing on Lucha Underground. Hell even as a wrestling show, I would put ROH over NXT. NXT is a squash match show for the most part with an occasional good live special every now and then. Stop overrating this crap and watch other prowrestling outside of WWE before making such claims.

Lucha Underground is garbage. NXT blows it away, ROH might be on par with NXT, it's gaining a lot more fans with their move to DA and it's always been a great wrestling show... Talk about overrated, Lucha is the most overrated show out there.

 

[Faaahn Daaahn Gooooo]

even tho the wrestling is better on roh, i cant get into it. ive tried, but id rather watch tna, no matter how cheesy it can be

 

[whoopin' ass]

You know, I just don't get it. TNA's tv product has improved a lot in 2015. Look at them a year ago and compare it to what we have seen over the last 6 months - it is way better now. Angle is back in the ring, some new talent is getting over, it is getting good. But it seems that now the Carter's are not willing to spend on the product and look at the number of wrestlers who have left. It is baffling. So I can see why he said it is shattered - nothing ever seems to fall into place correctly so the product always seems poor. For years they spent money on guys like Sting and Nash and it really didn't help a ton, now they are finally gaining some traction, not relying on old wwe talent to get an audience(aside from Angle but he has been there forever) and the Carter's seem to be letting all those guys leave over a matter of money. I get that you don't want to keep tossing money into a losing situation but what do they expect to happen when talent keeps leaving?

 

[Rayne]

I get that you don't want to keep tossing money into a losing situation but what do they expect to happen when talent keeps leaving?

The situation has changed a bit over the past year. Yes, the free-wheeling days where TNA spit out money left/right/center without regards to how much they were actually making are permanently over, but that has almost nothing to do with talent leaving at this moment.

The main issue right now is the same as it was in December of last year; there's no sense in paying your employees to do work if you don't know if you'll have any work for them to do.