I hate to say it but I still think about the first two weeks of the Alliance angle way back when and get excited...only to realize it never reached the potential it had. I know everyone already knows this revelation but what makes it even worse is that it will probably never happen again. WCW was actually as big as WWE at one time in regards to popularity and drawing power. A competitor of this magnatude may never come along again. I have actually just recently realized how great TNA is (most recent PPV) but I don't think it is at any level of real power where its roter could make dream matches. Its just sad is all. Now wrestling sucks (all of it really) and I have no idea when the industry will reach that hight of creativity and support again.
Alliance: Industry's Biggest Loss
- Thread starter thepoo62
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I would say that is a bit over-dramatic. Wrestling does not suck these days, though I agree It is not as good as it was in the attitude era. Everyone knows the invasion angle was handled badly but there is no changing history. Just be satisfied that there are 4 different watchable wrestling shows out there.
Skullz Crack'Em
Lord of the Skulls
I agree WWE does not have storylines like they use to so they try to revive old gimmicks and storylines to see if it would catch as much attention as it did 5-10 years ago. I dont think i can see another big invasion type storyline in the future because TNA is a different kind of wrestling than WWE and i dont think it would mix well together.If there was an invasion storyline you know that WWE is going to win and put TNA to rest which would be a shame b/c TNA is slowly evolving into a great company with excellent potential.
Oh ya! TNA is coming into its own especially after what I would consider to be a great ppv. I'm just concerned they are going to "pull a TNA" and lose their momentum by doing something unimaginably stupid like putting the belt on Steiner or Hoyt. I hope they grow and they probably will. Oh and I know I was being over-dramatic, its just that I think it is lame that I even think about these things...
i dont rly think u were being overdramatic... watchable is one thing, but enjoyable is completely different.... i watch all the shows cause i love wrestling but compared to what it could be, and has been, its just not even close... tna is good but itll take another couple yrs to rly see what itll be like, they can still screw it up big time...
smackdowns getting better, but raw is staying consistent... which is not enough to me right now... id say it pretty much sux right now
smackdowns getting better, but raw is staying consistent... which is not enough to me right now... id say it pretty much sux right now
i think TNA's last ppv answered any questions i had about them being able to be a competitor for the WWE. that ppv was great and had big stars and saw sting begin his (most likely) final world title run. the show is going to be two hours soon and they are starting to travel with their house shows. i think some people want too much too fast...be patient. it took wcw years to build up to competitor status but like tna, everyone knew they someday would be.
also people leaving the WWE right now are not leaving on good terms which is something that wcw lacked. those guys (hall, nash, pac, etc) didnt leave the WWE angrily like say angle and christian did, so that makes the guys tna steals away hungrier, angrier and they feel FREE from vinces overbearing control. you cant buy that kind of loyalty.
also people leaving the WWE right now are not leaving on good terms which is something that wcw lacked. those guys (hall, nash, pac, etc) didnt leave the WWE angrily like say angle and christian did, so that makes the guys tna steals away hungrier, angrier and they feel FREE from vinces overbearing control. you cant buy that kind of loyalty.
you know I think TNA does have great wrestling and really dangerous. Vince may have been trying to preserve the industry by holding back and banning moves, banning people from using others finishers etc. I watch AJ or Sabin and I think that move was sick and he still kicked out!?! They are diferentiating themselves from the stale WWE but they are both gonna suffer when we don't accept a finish unless someone fell from the top of the building onto a table fashioned out of barbedwire. The industry will never be the same again...its sad
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
I'm in agreeance that the Invasion angle was probably the biggest missed opportunity in wrestling history. It could've permanently cemented McMahon as the perennial giant in wrestling that can NEVER be challenged because he could keep both companies (WCW and then WWF) alive and running. I always thought that it was executed poorly because they didn't bring along the talent correctly. They expected Booker T and Buff Bagwell to work a Raw match after having loads of ring rust and their match was a joke as a result. These guys should've at least been given some time in the developmental territories in order to sharpen up before being presented on TV. Also, I hated that there were actually TitanTron graphics for each WCW run-in. It was one of the dumbest, "let's show everybody how scripted this is" moments in wrestling, ever. Way to be spontaneous, Vince.
My original idea of the angle would've had Vince spend a couple of months before the invasion happens building his own squad of top heels fronted by Triple H. Then, Shane and a couple of his WCW stalwarts, led by Booker T come in to fight Vince's guys in a big PPV tag team match. Except Shane slips a fast one on Vince and during the contract signing, Vince doesn't realize that if his team loses, he abdicates his ownership of the Smackdown brand and timeslot, as well as the rights to six of his twelve PPV slots each year. This way, Shane could restart WCW's "A" show and there would be no WWF "B" show after that. Nitro could be reborn and they could start a talent raid that wouldn't look as cheap and forced as the WWE drafts that came afterwards. They could've kept the angle going throughout the summer little by little and have the angle culminate at Wrestlemania where there is a series of "inter-promotional matches."
The problem that occurred during the angle as performed was that they stacked WCW's guys against WWF's guys who were liked and over, and at that point the home crowd is never going to vote for the WCW guys unless the WWF guys were already hated as heels. The angle was ruined because they had to switch gears midstream and re-arrange everything because the crowds weren't receptive to WCW's talent and the angle was falling flat on its face. This was also part of the reason for the whole ECW addition at the angle's midpoint (which made things worse). The only "invasion" angle that ever worked to fruition was the birth of the NWO. All of the marks thought it was actually the WWF coming in to fight the WCW guys, when in fact it was all a work and crazy Uncle Eric was pulling all the strings.
My original idea of the angle would've had Vince spend a couple of months before the invasion happens building his own squad of top heels fronted by Triple H. Then, Shane and a couple of his WCW stalwarts, led by Booker T come in to fight Vince's guys in a big PPV tag team match. Except Shane slips a fast one on Vince and during the contract signing, Vince doesn't realize that if his team loses, he abdicates his ownership of the Smackdown brand and timeslot, as well as the rights to six of his twelve PPV slots each year. This way, Shane could restart WCW's "A" show and there would be no WWF "B" show after that. Nitro could be reborn and they could start a talent raid that wouldn't look as cheap and forced as the WWE drafts that came afterwards. They could've kept the angle going throughout the summer little by little and have the angle culminate at Wrestlemania where there is a series of "inter-promotional matches."
The problem that occurred during the angle as performed was that they stacked WCW's guys against WWF's guys who were liked and over, and at that point the home crowd is never going to vote for the WCW guys unless the WWF guys were already hated as heels. The angle was ruined because they had to switch gears midstream and re-arrange everything because the crowds weren't receptive to WCW's talent and the angle was falling flat on its face. This was also part of the reason for the whole ECW addition at the angle's midpoint (which made things worse). The only "invasion" angle that ever worked to fruition was the birth of the NWO. All of the marks thought it was actually the WWF coming in to fight the WCW guys, when in fact it was all a work and crazy Uncle Eric was pulling all the strings.
I agree that the invasion angle was done poorly, like the first few weeks were exiting, when wcw stars were showing up out of nowhere and stealing away the wwe title belts(i still remember mike awesome winning the hardcore title in madison square garden, i think that was the pinnacle of the angle right there). But alas, it got sloppy, and then ruined, but thats the way it is. I also agree about the wwe being watchable(cuz I am a huge wrestling fan) but not as much enjoyable. While I have heard some good stuff about tna, I would never watch it, im too loyal to the wwe, but I do hope that tna does get big enough to start pushing wwe(and the creative staff) to do more. Without the competition(unless you call monday night football competition) wwe has become lax, complacent, and because of this their stories have not been good at all.
If the wwe wants to get back to the old attitude era(and i hope they do) there was one thing that constantly stuck out to me personally, and made the wwe both interesting and unpredictable. While it did have its mega stars in Austin, the Rock, HHH and so on, the thing that made the attitude era big, and on the flip side also made wcw big, was the stables. With the stable creation, the backstabbing, the new friendships, the new rivalries, stables were what made the attitude era run, and everyone involved in wrestling were involved in a stable in one way or another. You had DX, the Nation, Corporation, Ministry, the Corporate-Ministry, Radicals, these were some big stable groups that created so much interest and intrigue in wrestling. I am unsure if this would work with today's wrestling, as with the brand separation's, the number of wrestlers available for a stable are small, as the star power is small right now. The only way this would work would be for the brands(at least raw/smackdown) to come back together, but that won't prob be the case(at least for the next couple of years anyway) so who knows. But again, I think stables are what is needed to make the wwe enjoyable again.
If the wwe wants to get back to the old attitude era(and i hope they do) there was one thing that constantly stuck out to me personally, and made the wwe both interesting and unpredictable. While it did have its mega stars in Austin, the Rock, HHH and so on, the thing that made the attitude era big, and on the flip side also made wcw big, was the stables. With the stable creation, the backstabbing, the new friendships, the new rivalries, stables were what made the attitude era run, and everyone involved in wrestling were involved in a stable in one way or another. You had DX, the Nation, Corporation, Ministry, the Corporate-Ministry, Radicals, these were some big stable groups that created so much interest and intrigue in wrestling. I am unsure if this would work with today's wrestling, as with the brand separation's, the number of wrestlers available for a stable are small, as the star power is small right now. The only way this would work would be for the brands(at least raw/smackdown) to come back together, but that won't prob be the case(at least for the next couple of years anyway) so who knows. But again, I think stables are what is needed to make the wwe enjoyable again.
Kasey
Connoiseur of the MILF
^Some good concepts. I always wanted it so that during the crossover event, there wasn't the oversaturation of stars. I only wanted a few of the ECW/WCW displaced wrestlers (who were the best they could get from each brand) to show up on one squad for shane consisting of no more than about four or five guys. Then when the time came for WCW to get its own show, they could've brought all of the guys back who'd been out for a while and it would've seemed fresh and cool to have all of these amazing athletes to kickstart a new show. This would also have allowed the consistent WWF athletes to remain as a local product within instead of being used as cannon fodder for the Invasion angle. I also thought the oversaturation of wrestlers robbed the WWF athletes of their ability to have storylines that flowed well because everyone was just fighting for airtime by summertime.
Thats true. I found the biggest problem with that angle was the wwe wrestlers who began defecting to the alliance ie austin and angle. When this began to happen, this is when I truly felt that it was no longer an invasion angle and more an extension of the wwe, and I just didn't care about it anymore. What the wwe should of done, b/c of the influx of so many stars, would be to have the alliance take over one of the brands(i guess it was just known as a show back then) and create that the "new" wcw instead of being raw/smackdown, it could be wwe/wcw.