Alex Rodriguez ban likely to be through 2014

[LSN80]

In what will likely be the most accomplished baseball player ever to receive a suspension that isn't career ending, Alex "A-Rod" Rodriguez faces a suspension that would allow him to return, at earliest, the beginning of the 2015 season. All of this stems from the BioGenesis scandal that will result in the suspension of 12 others tomorrow as well.

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/sto...uspended-2014-season-monday-according-sources

The Yankees, the MLBPA, and Bud Selig were negotiating a suspension that would reportedly have A-Rod fined more, with less time on his suspension. But frustrated with the unwillingness of the A-Rod camp to budge, Selig himself broke off all negotiations, and is prepared to suspend the Yankees star on Monday. Rodriguez' camp refused the reported offer from MLB to allow an exemption for him to be suspended for more then 50 games, provided he didn't receive a lifetime ban.

Rodriguez has never tested positive for any banned substance, so why the desire for such a harsh punishment? Multiple charges. He's heavily linked with 'alleged' Miami steroid dealer Tony Bosch and his Biogenesis clinic in South Florida, for one. However, MLB investigators have unearthed evidence that Rodriguez has both procured and compensated the attorneys for the witnesses they have been interviewing in the Bosch scandal, which is tantamount to bribery.

If Rodriguez' suspension indeed does last through the 2014 season, he's expected to lose 34.2 million in salary, more then the entire members list of Wrestlezone will earn in their lifetime, most likely. Further, Rodriguez is not expected to be allowed to play while he appeals his suspension, which he plans on doing. Right now, A-Rod is 38 years old, and by the time he would be eligible for reinstatement, he would be almost 40.

Is the punishment for Rodriguez too harsh?

If he is suspended until 2014, is A-Rod "done"?

All other thoughts, welcome and encouraged. You know the drill.

 

[Harthan]

It's rather hard to define what is and is not too harsh because this is fairly unprecedented. The MLB is really in interesting territory because A-Rod has not exactly failed a drug test. But, he has admitted to using PEDs at least once in the past and the MLB clearly feels they have enough evidence to prove he not only used them multiple times with Biogenesis but was apparently the leader of MLB players doing so (possibly encouraging others to use them, from what I've heard). I believe the normal drug testing rules go 50 games, 100 games, lifetime ban, so there's definitely a clear argument for him getting a lifetime ban if MLB feels they have enough evidence to claim he used PEDs on three separate occasions, which they probably do. But without ever precisely having failed a drug test, it's somewhat murky. This is something like a 200 game suspension, so it falls in between the second and third penalties. I don't really think that's totally unreasonable given the circumstances.

It'll be interesting to see if A-Rod ever plays baseball again. I don't know if the CBA allows him to play elsewhere while suspended from MLB, but it would probably be in his interest to try Japan or the independent leagues if he can. If he has to go until the 2015 season without playing real games, he'll be in serious trouble if he attempts a comeback. I don't doubt at all that the Yankees will be doing what they can to just get out from under his contract anyway they can, and might try to negotiate a buyout with him or something.

 

[shattered dreams]

It is true that it is hard to know for sure without the benefit of all the details but I think it is safe to say that MLB seems to be handling the drug related part of the suspension disingenuously. The largest problem is that it would be so wildly inconsistent with precedent and even the recent punishments. Reportedly all other players are getting 50 games and Braun agreed to a barely more 65 games, supposedly based on previous lying or whatever but more importantly cooperating now! Last year Melky Cabrera only got 50 games even though he went to some length to lie as well, his name turned up in this investigation and they appear to have deemed his prior punishment sufficient. They also let him play during the appeals process. So the precedent appears to have no grounds for what Arod is getting, to be completely blunt it doesn't have much grounds to suspend anyone. I think MLB knew that so they tried to strongarm the players with threats of larger punishments based on tenuous grounds that could possibly hold up just because sports organizations can easily stack the deck for whatever reason.

For most players it made sense just to do the time and get back to playing but Arod had a lot at stake and seemingly everyone but him would benefit from a lengthy suspension. Couple that with years of being one fo the douchiest players in the game he doesn't really have an ally in this fight. However, that doesn't make what they are doing to him right. MLB has long been interested in appearing tough on drugs, in no small part because they actually are compared to most professional sports organizations but the public doesn't see it that way. The problem is that it is somewhere in between hard and impossible to keep ahead of the drug curve anyway. So they have taken to public shaming in ways beyond those collectively bargained. The way I see that is potentially effective yet unlikely legal. Arod will have to spend a lot of money to "clear" his name which everyone already knows was dirty to begin with. Maybe that is what MLB wants or is all of this just to put pressure on the players union to concede even further on drug testing in spite of MLB's brazen disregard for the agreed procedures presently? I wonder how much trouble MLB would get in once Arod shows they were being heavy handed? Probably not much which is why they can operate this way. I wonder if there are any implications here that Arod could use to tie back to their antitrust exemption and make the other side sweat a little more?

 

[Con T.]

Man, MLB is lucky this is happening to the least popular baseball figure since Marge Schott. If it didn't, people would be up in arms.

Of course A-Rod's on steroids; he's also never failed a rest. Charging him with such an egregious penalty just makes them look inept, and starving for the approval of the baseball writers who have harrumphed this into less about a player's health, and more the "integrity" of the game. If the NCAA is a kangaroo court, this is a three ring fucking circus, which really exploits just how desperate Bud is to drag a cat by the tail into the very bag he let it out of.

I understand why A-Rod is getting this, but while baseball and its writers can glad hand about the firm stance they're taking to maintain the "integrity" of the game, they're also sacrificing any sense of integrity in their own trivial judicial system.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I haven't really been following the whole Biogenesis scandal all that closely so I will preface my commentary with an admission of some ignorance as to all of the facts. Having said this, by all accounts, MLB seems to be pretty confident that they have a significant amount of information pertaining to Rodriguez (and others) which is damning enough to him to warrant some pretty stiff punishment.

I would like to hear a little more of the specifics concerning the case against A-Rod. However if they can ascertain that he knowingly was using performance enhancing substances over and above those he has already admitted to, that he brought other players into the Biogenesis world, that he consistent lied to and/or mislead the folks at MLB, and that his conduct was in violation of the CBA, then I think the punishment is not harsh enough.

Again, without being privy to all of the information, I think that Alex Rodriguez should receive a lifetime ban from MLB. His career should be over. Any awards and accolades he has received should be stripped from him. His statistics should be nullified (no asterisks necessary, totally nullified). And he should forfeit any remaining salary owed to him. Send a clear and distinct message to him as well as to the rest of the MLB players. Enough is enough.

Sure, he is innocent until proven guilty, and he can appeal if he feels he can prove his innocence. But from what little I know about the matter, the guy cheated with PED's for an extended period of time, encouraged others to do the same, lied about it and misled those trying to get to the heart of the matter, and then tried to buy his way out of trouble. And there's no place for this in MLB. A 200+ game suspension is pretty harsh, but leaves the possibility of a return out there (despite his age), and maintains his place amongst the elite players from a statistical perspective. As far as I'm concerned, Alex Rodriguez and Cooperstown should never be uttered in the same sentence.

If Pete Rose is going to remain banned from the game of baseball and never enter the Hall of Fame because of it (one of the greatest wrongs in MLB history), how can any punishment of Alex Rodriguez still ever allow the possibility of seeing that cheater enshrined? It has to be a lifetime ban for Alex Rodriguez, as it clearly will take something of this magnitude to deter the Ryan Braun's of the world. Zero tolerance.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I don't really follow baseball, bores the snot out of me, but this is a major story that I'm sure everyone has heard of. I don't know all the specifics, so I can't say whether or not MLB's proposed ban is harsh or not harsh enough. As of right now, it doesn't seem like anyone really knows all the specifics.

A lot of people, I'm sure, don't really see the big whoop when it comes to steroids. After all, it's not as if we have people knocking off liquor stores or holding up gas stations for the cash to get their next fix. I agree that compared to the problems caused by cocaine, heroin, meth, etc. that steroids is extraordinarily tame. I think that the problem most people have with it is simply based on morality rather than any sense of illegality recognized by state & federal authorities.

After all, even in this cynical age, people feel that sporting events and achievements of all types should be won or lost based on the purely natural merits of athletes themselves. Contrary to popular belief, there really is no such thing as "fairness" in sports. You're always going to have someone that's simply better or more gifted in some ways that others. Some athletes are faster than others, some are stronger, some have greater physical endurance, some have greater agility, greater coordination, greater reflexes, some combination of any or all of the above. There's really no such thing as athletes being on completely equal playing fields from a physical standpoint. That's simply the natural way of things for all forms of life from the tiniest microscopic organisms to the great leviathans of the oceans. When you look at all aspects of life in general, whether it be sports or your job or whatever, it's natural that people want to see those who are simply able to use what they naturally have to succeed and why those who use short cuts or cheat are treated with disdain. Is it too simplistic of a view? Quite possibly. But it's still one that most societies assign great value to.

Whether or not you personally have no problem with athletes using steroids, the issue is that they're not only illegal but are banned in sports. As a result, if you choose to use them anyway and wind up getting caught; then you deserve what's coming to you. If Rodriguez is found out to be lying about the times he's taken performance enhancing drugs, such as having done them longer than he's stated or has even been taking them in recent times, then I don't believe the punishment is harsh enough. After all, he knew of MLB's stance on performance enhancing drugs when he embarked on his career choice of being a professional baseball player. If he has been telling the truth, having only used them the times he's confessed to and no longer takes them, then I feel that the punishment is justified.

If the current ban does last through until 2015, he'll be roughly 40 years old by the time it's lifted. By that time, odds are that the best days of his career will be over. As an athlete, he's already considered to be pretty old. It wouldn't surprise me if he announced retirement if he gets the current proposed ban. After all, he's had an amazing career. He has a World Series Championship, a 14 time MLB All star, 4 time Hank Aaron award winner, 3 time American League MVP, 5 time American Leage Home Run Champion and a net worth somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 million.

 

[Mustang Sally]

It's rather hard to define what is and is not too harsh because this is fairly unprecedented.

That's the thing. In every legal and/or administrative proceeding that requires negotiation, there are parties that disagree over the length of the punishment or amount of the fine. Who's to say what is too much or not enough?

Plainly, A-Rod has the money to hire the best team of attorneys possible and I can just see them going to work on any punishment Commissioner Selig hands out. Once they're done with Major League Baseball, I wouldn't be surprised if MLB doesn't wind up owing money to A-Rod. If the legal team can bamboozle MLB half as well as agent Scott Boras fooled the Yankees in 2007 when Rodriguez opted out of his contract.... deciding that being the highest paid player in the history of baseball just wasn't enough.... it might be baseball that winds up squirming in their seats as this plays out, not A-Rod. (And, of course, if A-Rod doesn't get a favorable result from the courts, he'll blissfully sue his team of super-lawyers, claiming they gave him inadequate representation).

I'd much prefer if MLB and Team A-Rod could have agreed on a suspension, as most of the other players charged are doing. If that happened, it would be even more interesting to watch the Yankees try to get out of the 10-year-deal with A-Rod.

For those who like courtroom drama, that would be the legal system's version of the Super Bowl.

 

[Rayne]

As a Red Sox fan, I've seen that Alex Rodriguez is a firm believer in cheating to win. Blue Jays fans can attest too.

If it were just for evidence of steroid use, the penalty he's looking at would be too harsh. The clincher isn't that he cheated; he then bribed people so he could destroy the evidence. That is an "integrity of the game" issue. If that could be proven, I'd support a lifetime ban. Players are all but expected to say "I've never touched the stuff", which is way Ryan Braun was merely dragged through the mud instead of crucified. 'Purchasing documents' (a very polite euphemism and legal distinction from bribing someone to destroy evidence) takes this to a whole new, uglier level.

Tonight should be an interesting one in Chicago.

 

[Megatron]

I feel that MLB is overstepping their boundaries with the length of the suspension. 211 games isn't in line with any of the agreements they made in the CBA. I know ARod has likely done more than the other 12-13 suspended, but that's not worth 4 times the suspension time to me. I'm hoping his appeal gets his sentence reduced, partially because I think Selig was on a bit of a witch hunt to stick it to Rodriguez. I know Rodriguez is about as unlikeable as they come, but really he shouldn't get more than 100 games, I'd say.

 

[hatehabsforever]

I feel that MLB is overstepping their boundaries with the length of the suspension. 211 games isn't in line with any of the agreements they made in the CBA. I know ARod has likely done more than the other 12-13 suspended, but that's not worth 4 times the suspension time to me. I'm hoping his appeal gets his sentence reduced, partially because I think Selig was on a bit of a witch hunt to stick it to Rodriguez. I know Rodriguez is about as unlikeable as they come, but really he shouldn't get more than 100 games, I'd say.

Truth be told, I'm sure the intention is to see Rodriguez suspended for the entire 2014 season. He will play until Thursday and then he will appeal, likely allowing him to play for most if not all of the rest of this season. The suspension will likely then be reduced from 211 back to 162, and he will sit out all of next season.

If they suspend him for just 100 games or so, it would like get shortened to mere double digits. An initial suspension of 211 can be significantly shortened to 162, and MLB will achieve he result they realistically hoped to achieve in the first place.

Meanwhile, he should consider himself damn lucky he's not facing a lifetime ban from MLB, ending his career, costing him a fortune and a shot at Cooperstown.

 

[Megatron]

Meanwhile, he should consider himself damn lucky he's not facing a lifetime ban from MLB, ending his career, costing him a fortune and a shot at Cooperstown.

Don't know why A-Rod should be considered lucky when he's never failed a test in his career. A lifetime ban would've been a laughable act by the MLB overstepping their boundaries. I know he's not the most likeable guy, but truthfully I would only give him a 50 gamer if we're following the JDA standard.

But since MLB gets most scrutinized for their drug problem (despite being the most severe out there, which is for a different thread) Selig is out to try and knock down some big names before he steps down. He got Braun to accept and talk to them partially because the Brewers aren't doing shit this year and he's only losing a few million to take an extended vacation. A-Rod has a lot more money tied up and is right to fight it.

 

[hatehabsforever]

Didn't A-Rod freely admit to using PED's earlier in his career (while with the Rangers if I recall correctly)? So no, he didn't fail any drug test, but there's one guilty incident (which was likely ongoing for even longer than he admitted to).

Now he's tied to a mountain of evidence in the Biogenesis scandal. Again, no failed drug test but in all likelihood, a second guilty offense. I am somewhat reserving judgment until the weight of this evidence is further revealed but you have to assume that MLB has something pretty damning if they are seeking a suspension more than triple anything which precedes it.

He is apparently responsible for bringing other players into the Biogenesis clinic. He consistently lied about it. He even tried to buy off those who held much of the evidence against him, allegedly trying to purchase the documentation from those who held it against him. So in fairness, I think it goes well beyond simply using PED's or whether or not he failed any drug test. His level of guilt at least appears to go far beyond the other guys listed in he scandal, and as such, he deserves far stiffer punishment.

I love the game of baseball and I for one am sick and tired of guys like him ruining the game for everyone else. I say guys like him should be kicked out of the game and made an example of, before Major Leagie Baseball becomes a farce along the lines of the Tour de France.

 

[Skairipa Matrix]

a shot at Cooperstown.

Do you really think he still has a shot at Cooperstown anymore? More than once busted for PED's should pretty much secure he won't get in ever considering the other PED users are already in doubt for ever getting in.

Personally I think he should have accepted the suspension, he fucked up so he should pay for it. Everybody else is taking their suspensions. I get he has a lot more money he'd be losing than the others but come on, do you really expect me to believe he needs the money he'd lose out on?

 

[Megatron]

Didn't A-Rod freely admit to using PED's earlier in his career (while with the Rangers if I recall correctly)? So no, he didn't fail any drug test, but there's one guilty incident (which was likely ongoing for even longer than he admitted to).

He claimed to do it before the JDA was in the CBA, so I don't see why you can charge him for that.

Now he's tied to a mountain of evidence in the Biogenesis scandal. Again, no failed drug test but in all likelihood, a second guilty offense. I am somewhat reserving judgment until the weight of this evidence is further revealed but you have to assume that MLB has something pretty damning if they are seeking a suspension more than triple anything which precedes it.

He is apparently responsible for bringing other players into the Biogenesis clinic. He consistently lied about it. He even tried to buy off those who held much of the evidence against him, allegedly trying to purchase the documentation from those who held it against him. So in fairness, I think it goes well beyond simply using PED's or whether or not he failed any drug test. His level of guilt at least appears to go far beyond the other guys listed in he scandal, and as such, he deserves far stiffer punishment.

I know most of the background of the story, but here's an excerpt of an article from Jonah Keri of Grantland who words it much better than I can:

Given that the JDA clearly outlines suspensions as 50 games for a first PED-related offense, 100 for a second, and a lifetime ban for a third, Rodriguez has plenty of grounds to appeal. Thanks to MLB leaks, we have countless reports that the league supposedly has overwhelming evidence of Rodriguez's transgressions, including text messages to Biogenesis founder Tony Bosch promising to exchange money for PEDs. A-Rod has admitted to using PEDs from 2001 through 2003, when he played for the Rangers. But he has never been suspended for a failed test, possession, or any other PED violation, thus setting up a 50-game ouster as the JDA-sanctioned punishment for a first offense.

[Stuff about Braun that's irrelevant to this]

The Braun suspension, and the one Rodriguez now faces, raise multiple questions. Is the JDA now obsolete, given that Major League Baseball can apparently impose more than the prescribed punishment for first-time offenders? Will future suspensions be subject to extensive negotiations involving MLB, the player, and the union, rather than following the steps negotiated by all sides during past rounds of collective bargaining? Moreover, what constitutes something more than a typical first offense? Making multiple orders for performance-enhancing drugs? Denying those purchases to MLB? Offering money to prospective witnesses in a pending PED case, because it's fine for baseball to cajole witnesses, but if a player does so he might be subject to a lifetime ban?

If you want a reason to cheer Rodriguez's appeal (and you're not a Yankees fan), consider that MLB's evidence is now far more likely to be revealed than if the two sides had simply negotiated an agreed-upon suspension, thus likely answering many of these questions. Had the league and Rodriguez settled, we'd likely be left in the dark as to the full extent of the player's violations, the way we were with Braun. Here, the public stands a greater chance of learning exactly what MLB has on A-Rod, and thus how it might interpret future violations by other players when it seeks suspensions of various lengths.

I love the game of baseball and I for one am sick and tired of guys like him ruining the game for everyone else. I say guys like him should be kicked out of the game and made an example of, before Major Leagie Baseball becomes a farce along the lines of the Tour de France.

And baseball has done it's part in trying to clean the game up. They have rougher suspensions than any other league, and for some reason NFL suspensions barely are a blip on the radar.

As for kicking them out after one positive test, I vehemently disagree. Guys make mistakes. They're human. I know we want to hold them to a higher standard, but they're paying for their mistakes right now. They're being punished what I'd say is a fair punishment (almost 1/3 of the season is a lot) and they aren't getting paid while they're out.

Plus let's not act like this current era is the only one to use supplements to help themselves out. Guys like Hank Aaron and Willie Mays "greenies" back in their day. MLB has always had a drug stigma, it's just that now people are starting to care about it and make a bigger deal out of it.

 

[Slyfox696]

I've only been moderately following this story.

Can someone explain to me why exactly A-Rod's suspension is so much more severe than the other players? The other players got a 50 game suspension. A-Rod is suspended for a season and a half. A-Rod is, technically, a first time offender under baseball's steroid policy.


What's the difference? I saw someone (Rayne I think) mention something about bribing people to hide evidence. Is that the deal? Is there something else?

 

[Барбоса]

What's the difference? I saw someone (Rayne I think) mention something about bribing people to hide evidence. Is that the deal?

That is my understanding.

He not only took the PEDs, he attempted to cover it up and disrupt the investigation by purchasing records.

As to the poll above, I would vote "No" for if he is guilty of such blatant obstruction through bribery, he should be banned for life.

 

[Rayne]

I've only been moderately following this story.

Can someone explain to me why exactly A-Rod's suspension is so much more severe than the other players? The other players got a 50 game suspension. A-Rod is suspended for a season and a half. A-Rod is, technically, a first time offender under baseball's steroid policy.


What's the difference? I saw someone (Rayne I think) mention something about bribing people to hide evidence. Is that the deal? Is there something else?

Alex Rodriguez is accused of impeding the MLB's investigation by purchasing documents from Biogenesis, and destroying them. What did those 'documents' contain? We'll never know. In a court of law, that creates reasonable doubt; in the court of "well no shit", there is only one conceivable reason why someone would purchase the documents of a PED clinic under investigation.

So while the MLB can't nail him for purchasing and destroying documents containing his links to a PED clinic, they can nail him for purchasing and destroying documents which might have helped an MLB internal investigation.

As a Red Sox fan... wow, did we ever dodge a bullet so many years ago when we were bidding against the Yankees for him.

 

[samhunt391]

I feel just a little bit bad for A-Rod here, he misses a full season and the Yankees get around $30m of salary gone from the books next year and there is no way he will be as good as 2009 A-rod ever was.