AJW Region, Round 1 # 1 Mariko Yoshida vs # 16 Trish Stratus

[Bernkastel]

# 1 Mariko Yoshida vs # 16 Trish Status

This match will take place in Tokyo, Japan

1.) Not a popularity contest, tournament based on in ring skills

2.) Will rules of a region come into play (All matches in this region will be subject to Joshi rules and regulations, not WWE's or TNA's, please keep that in mind)

3.) Will the crowd be a factor

 

[Shocky]

See, this is why I wouldn't have seeded this match up Ech. You have to respect what the WWE Divas have done, as meaningless and garbage as that division is, it is still the most well known here stateside.

It's the same thing as me putting Jeff Hardy at #100 on my list as a gag, but that one point added up to Hardy beating a superior worker in Jerry Lynn in the second round, and egg on my face.

Yoshida is a far superior worker then Trish, probably in about every category possible, except for name value, and it's a damn shame, because the WWE Women's title has been in the trash can ever since the last good champion put it there, and that was Alundra Blaze.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

In this kind of match you can't say that Mariko doesn't have face value because it is set in Tokyo, Japan, and Mariko is hugely over in Japan especially because this is under Joshi rules and Mariko is highly known for that. Obviously if you're voting for Trish here you don't understand all that is really taking place in this match. Yes Trish is well known here in America and in Canada too, but this doesn't take place there now does it?

Yoshida is a far superior worker then Trish, probably in about every category possible, except for name value, and it's a damn shame, because the WWE Women's title has been in the trash can ever since the last good champion put it there, and that was Alundra Blaze.

Seriously? After the Women's title was reinstated we've had champions like Jacqueline, Molly, Jazz, Victoria, Lita, Trish, and Mickie... you can't say that all those champions were worthless because they really weren't.
Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Bernkastel]

In this kind of match you can't say that Mariko doesn't have face value because it is set in Tokyo, Japan, and Mariko is hugely over in Japan especially because this is under Joshi rules and Mariko is highly known for that. Obviously if you're voting for Trish here you don't understand all that is really taking place in this match. Yes Trish is well known here in America and in Canada too, but this doesn't take place there now does it?

Its almost like people that have voted for Trish don't actually realize that pro wrestling exists outside of the United States (because no one that has, have taken the time to explain why they could justify voting for Trish in this match.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I serously dont no shit about mariko, But i'll vote for her in a match that she will liely controll in real life. Fuckin marks allways have to fuck people over. Serously they see trish's name and the click it just because its her. She has no chance in hell in japan. joshi fights look prety cool from what I saw and since mariko is trained in them I serously see her beating trish without breaking a sweat. But this is a tournie on a forum no one is really going to vote for the right person. I'm done ranting on about nothing but it will be a shame to see mariko get beat in her city in her style of a match by a woman who's never even wrestled in a joshi match.

 

[Slyfox696]

I serously dont no shit about mariko, But i'll vote for her in a match that she will liely controll in real life.

LOL

This is almost as funny as what you are about to say next.

Fuckin marks allways have to fuck people over. Serously they see trish's name and the click it just because its her. She has no chance in hell in japan.

LOL

So why are you voting against her? You just said that you don't know anything about her opponent, and yet you are voting against her, while simultaneously talking derisively about "marks". Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

joshi fights look prety cool from what I saw and since mariko is trained in them I serously see her beating trish without breaking a sweat. But this is a tournie on a forum no one is really going to vote for the right person. I'm done ranting on about nothing but it will be a shame to see mariko get beat in her city in her style of a match by a woman who's never even wrestled in a joshi match.

Do you even know what "joshi" is? Or, is it just because Ech is making a big deal about it, that you some how think it actually implies some superior form of skill and ability?

I swear, anyone who votes for someone they know nothing about, based upon a word they don't understand has to be as big of a mark as anyone who votes for Trish based on name value.

I find it astonishing how people can vote for someone they had never heard about, simply because Echelon has gone on a two week long rant about the match being held in Japan, as if American wrestlers had never been successful in Japan.


Here's a list of names for you all. Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Vader...maybe you've heard of them? I don't know. But, they all went to Japan and were highly successful.


But no, because Echelon says it's so, and because people like to throw around terms they don't understand in order to look like they are knowledgeable, Trish Stratus will be screwed out of this thing, primarily because Echelon doesn't like and/or respect her.

Absolutely ridiculous.


Whatever. Everyone resume your "joshi" *********ion, and wank off to the fact that you feel intellectually superior because you vote for someone you've never heard of, based upon the location of the match, and a term you don't know anything about.

 

[Eternal Dragon]

I agree with Ech when he says that you should research if you want to vote and you don't know enough about the opponent (s), and then I also agree with Sly that you shouldn't vote for a person just because someone tells you to. In either case, don't vote at all if you don't have the time or the interest to really look at Mariko and compare her fairly with Trish in this type of match. You don't need to be an expert on the Joshi style, or even on Mariko, but it does not take that much time to watch a match or read up on her. Don't vote for Mariko for the rep, vote for her because she deserves it more than Trish, and the only way you can come to the conclusion is to look closely (or I guess closer) at both women.

Flames Out
Dragon

 

[Bernkastel]

So why are you voting against her? You just said that you don't know anything about her opponent, and yet you are voting against her, while simultaneously talking derisively about "marks". Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

So that makes Trish better because she's more popular in the US? LMAOROFL

Do you even know what "joshi" is? Or, is it just because Ech is making a big deal about it, that you some how think it actually implies some superior form of skill and ability?

I never said joshi was superior, but considering that joshi and women's wrestling in the US is very different, there has to be some form of different skill and abilities that are found in josho that are different from wrestling in the US. Those abilities deserve respect and notification along side women' wrestling in the US.

I swear, anyone who votes for someone they know nothing about, based upon a word they don't understand has to be as big of a mark as anyone who votes for Trish based on name value.

Well anyone that did, in fact, look at Mariko's matches and the took into account that the match would be held in Japan under Joshi rules, also taking into account that Trish has never competed in a joshi matches before, is hardly a mark. Its easy to justify why Trish would lose in this match, easier to justify her losing than her actually winning.

I find it astonishing how people can vote for someone they had never heard about, simply because Echelon has gone on a two week long rant about the match being held in Japan, as if American wrestlers had never been successful in Japan.

And I find it astonishing that people actually believe that the success that a superstar has in the WWE must carry over to other styles of pro wrestling (unless your Hogan, but Trish is hardly Hogan) particularly in the women's division of WWE, which hasn't been strong on an international level since the early 90's.

Here's a list of names for you all. Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Vader...maybe you've heard of them? I don't know. But, they all went to Japan and were highly successful.

The women's division of WWE, which hasn't been strong on an international level since the early 90's.

and sure their have been women from the US that have worked on an international level, but those women all had far superior in ring technique that what Trish possessed.

But no, because Echelon says it's so, and because people like to throw around terms they don't understand in order to look like they are knowledgeable, Trish Stratus will be screwed out of this thing, primarily because Echelon doesn't like and/or respect her.

I respect Trish, but only when she's wrestling in her style. if she were to step out of that style to try something different like joshi, especially if she wrestled a match against Mariko Yoshida, then my loyalties would move, considering that Mariko is one of the best joshi wrestlers to ever compete. Mariko doesn't deserve to job to Trish in her own country, just like I couldn't see Trish losing to Mariko if this match were to have happened in the WWE.

Whatever. Everyone resume your "joshi" *********ion, and wank off to the fact that you feel intellectually superior because you vote for someone you've never heard of, based upon the location of the match, and a term you don't know anything about.

can I assume your throwing up the white flag then?

 

[Slyfox696]

So that makes Trish better because she's more popular in the US? LMAOROFL

Who said that? No where did that appear in my post. But hey, whatever you need to do to try and minimize the logic in this thread.

I never said joshi was superior, but considering that joshi and women's wrestling in the US is very different, there has to be some form of different skill and abilities that are found in josho that are different from wrestling in the US. Those abilities deserve respect and notification along side women' wrestling in the US.

What abilities Ech? What abilities would those be?

Please tell me.

Well anyone that did, in fact, look at Mariko's matches and the took into account that the match would be held in Japan under Joshi rules, also taking into account that Trish has never competed in a joshi matches before, is hardly a mark. Its easy to justify why Trish would lose in this match, easier to justify her losing than her actually winning.

Why, because of where the match is being held, and the type of match?

Do I REALLY need to bring up John Cena vs. Edge again?

And I find it astonishing that people actually believe that the success that a superstar has in the WWE must carry over to other styles of pro wrestling (unless your Hogan, but Trish is hardly Hogan) particularly in the women's division of WWE, which hasn't been strong on an international level since the early 90's.

No, what's REALLY amazing is that you think just because of where someone worked, they are completely incapable of working anything else. I mean, you're basing YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT off of two things.

1) Match is in Japan
2) It's a style you've never seen Trish work.


Nevermind the fact that Trish became a top women's wrestler in approximately 5 years time. Nevermind she was a top notch athlete, and a former fitness buff. Never mind that numerous Americans have gone to Japan and been successful. Never mind that wrestlers step into unfamiliar matches all the time and come out victorious.

No, we're just going to throw all that out the door, because Trish's opponent is Japanese, and, as we all know, Japanese wrestlers are just hereditarily better than American wrestlers.

The women's division of WWE, which hasn't been strong on an international level since the early 90's.

What does that have to do with this tournament? Is this a battle royal, WWE for *random japanese women promotion here*?

I thought this was Trish vs. Mariko.

but those women all had far superior in ring technique that what Trish possessed.

Oh yeah? Who, and like how?

I respect Trish, but only when she's wrestling in her style. if she were to step out of that style to try something different like joshi, especially if she wrestled a match against Mariko Yoshida, then my loyalties would move, considering that Mariko is one of the best joshi wrestlers to ever compete. Mariko doesn't deserve to job to Trish in her own country, just like I couldn't see Trish losing to Mariko if this match were to have happened in the WWE.

Once again, this whole "joshi" thing is being brought up like it matters.

Who is to say that Trish isn't the one to dictate the match? Let's say she gets the early jump, and is able to control the match. What the hell does "joshi" do to save her now? Is this like a video game, where Mariko gets some magic star power and does the super dupe ultra finisher move? What a joke.

can I assume your throwing up the white flag then?

You can assume that I have complete disdain for people who vote mindlessly for the sole reason they want others to think they know what they are talking about.


People like to go around chanting like a little schoolchild, "Ooooh, it's joshi, it's joshsi, it's joshi". Shut the fuck up. It's professional wrestling. And Trish deserves to win this match, simply based upon the obvious fact that Echelon has done everything possible to fix this match against her.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

This is almost as funny as what you are about to say next.

LOL

So why are you voting against her? You just said that you don't know anything about her opponent, and yet you are voting against her, while simultaneously talking derisively about "marks". Does your hypocrisy know no bounds?

Just because I dont no the opponets dosent mean I can't see who could clearly win the match

Do you even know what "joshi" is? Or, is it just because Ech is making a big deal about it, that you some how think it actually implies some superior form of skill and ability?

The fact is I don't you have me there. But trish isnt trained in this style of wrestiling. Even the best of wrestlers couldent learn a style in one night right?

I swear, anyone who votes for someone they know nothing about, based upon a word they don't understand has to be as big of a mark as anyone who votes for Trish based on name value.

Not going to argue there i was just going with the facts on the match. Trish isnt trained. And to be blunt I dont think a canadian could understand what people in japan are saying. She could take the crowd booing her as a pop.

I find it astonishing how people can vote for someone they had never heard about, simply because Echelon has gone on a two week long rant about the match being held in Japan, as if American wrestlers had never been successful in Japan.


Here's a list of names for you all. Andre the Giant, Hulk Hogan, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Vader...maybe you've heard of them? I don't know. But, they all went to Japan and were highly successful.

Thats true, Damn true. But serously a one night match between the 2 dosen't constitute a uproar of fan's turning suit on one there own wrestlers


But no, because Echelon says it's so, and because people like to throw around terms they don't understand in order to look like they are knowledgeable, Trish Stratus will be screwed out of this thing, primarily because Echelon doesn't like and/or respect her.

She's not going to be screwed out of anything. She would lose this match one way or another. People in japan take wrestiling serously from what i can see, There not going to pop right off the bat for a american bombshell. She can get it done in the ring i'll give her that but can she get it done in another country with different fans?

Absolutely ridiculous.


Whatever. Everyone resume your "joshi" *********ion, and wank off to the fact that you feel intellectually superior because you vote for someone you've never heard of, based upon the location of the match, and a term you don't know anything about.[/QUOTE]

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Id just like to throw in here, that everyone pulling the "oh maa gaaa just do some research" card. seriously, as if you can tell the talent, and worht of someone from watching 4 or 5 matches??? you have to see them in their prime, in their storylines, in thier feuds, in everything. You have to know the times, the impact, the influence, you cant do that by just watching some matches, and seeing how well they preform fake moves. You cant judge based upon just watching some matches, then making a judgement. thats ridiculous.

 

[Bernkastel]

What abilities Ech? What abilities would those be?

you do understand that joshi is different from wrestling in the WWE right? A key difference is that actual wrestling skill is emphasized. Trish was only as good in the ring as the wrestler she faced, and if the woman was to good or experinced, the WWE watered her down enough so that trish could keep up.

Why, because of where the match is being held, and the type ofmatch?

Its the style of match that should be taken into consideration. I have yet to find anything, anywhere that shows me that wrestling in the US and wrestling in Japan are the same, so unless you can prove me wrong, I'm going to say that wrestling style plays a big importance

No, what's REALLY amazing is that you think just because of where someone worked, they are completely incapable of working anything else. I mean, you're basing YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT off of two things.

1) Match is in Japan
2) It's a style you've never seen Trish work.

Nevermind the fact that Trish became a top women's wrestler in approximately 5 years time. Nevermind she was a top notch athlete, and a former fitness buff. Never mind that numerous Americans have gone to Japan and been successful. Never mind that wrestlers step into unfamiliar matches all the time and come out victorious.

You've never actually seen a Mariko match, Have you? I would bet that your just assuming that Trish could keep up with Mariko fairly easily in a match, which is wrong.

Who is to say that Trish isn't the one to dictate the match? Let's say she gets the early jump, and is able to control the match. What the hell does "joshi" do to save her now? Is this like a video game, where Mariko gets some magic star power and does the super dupe ultra finisher move? What a joke.

yeah, you've never seen a Mariko match, otherwise you'd know that Trish wouldn't get the opportunity. Why? Because she'd spend the entire match on the ground desperately fighting not to get trapped in a submission.

People like to go around chanting like a little schoolchild, "Ooooh, it's joshi, it's joshsi, it's joshi". Shut the fuck up. It's professional wrestling. And Trish deserves to win this match, simply based upon the obvious fact that Echelon has done everything possible to fix this match against her.

How does Trish deserve to win? Because she found some success in WWE? Please

 

[Slim Pickns]

Id just like to throw in here, that everyone pulling the "oh maa gaaa just do some research" card. seriously, as if you can tell the talent, and worht of someone from watching 4 or 5 matches??? you have to see them in their prime, in their storylines, in thier feuds, in everything. You have to know the times, the impact, the influence, you cant do that by just watching some matches, and seeing how well they preform fake moves. You cant judge based upon just watching some matches, then making a judgement. thats ridiculous.

I totally agree with this and thats why I refuse to watch any videos than cast a vote. You can't learn anything from watching the Youtube videos. If you watch Hogan/Andre at Wrestlemania III on Youtube, you would think it was the worst match ever and that Andrew was awful. However, the atmosphere and the buildup created by these two megastars made that match amazing.

I honestly don't think that anyone other the Ech and Dragon honestly voted for Mariko because they thought she was better. If you want to vote, fine thats what this is here for, but don't act like you are such an amazing wrestling fan because you voted for the Japanese wrestler over the popular hot Canadian Superstar.

 

[Slyfox696]

you do understand that joshi is different from wrestling in the WWE right? A key difference is that actual wrestling skill is emphasized. Trish was only as good in the ring as the wrestler she faced, and if the woman was to good or experinced, the WWE watered her down enough so that trish could keep up.

Actual wrestling skill eh?

Tell me, what is this "actual wrestling skill" that you are referring to?

Its the style of match that should be taken into consideration. I have yet to find anything, anywhere that shows me that wrestling in the US and wrestling in Japan are the same, so unless you can prove me wrong, I'm going to say that wrestling style plays a big importance

But what you HAVE seen, time and time again, is the incredible success so many American workers have found over in Japan.

You've never actually seen a Mariko match, Have you? I would bet that your just assuming that Trish could keep up with Mariko fairly easily in a match, which is wrong.

yeah, you've never seen a Mariko match, otherwise you'd know that Trish wouldn't get the opportunity. Why? Because she'd spend the entire match on the ground desperately fighting not to get trapped in a submission.

This here is what you call a "fallacy". Because you don't have ANY idea what would happen. This is just you grasping at random straws, desperate to prove your point, not because you fancy Mariko, but because you do not respect Trish.

How does Trish deserve to win?

I've explained this several times.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I totally agree with this and thats why I refuse to watch any videos than cast a vote. You can't learn anything from watching the Youtube videos. If you watch Hogan/Andre at Wrestlemania III on Youtube, you would think it was the worst match ever and that Andrew was awful. However, the atmosphere and the buildup created by these two megastars made that match amazing.

I honestly don't think that anyone other the Ech and Dragon honestly voted for Mariko because they thought she was better. If you want to vote, fine thats what this is here for, but don't act like you are such an amazing wrestling fan because you voted for the Japanese wrestler over the popular hot Canadian Superstar.

True story. Same thing with the music thread. As if you can judge a band off of listening to three songs posted by a supporter. stupid. I would bet large amounts of money that besides Ech, and MAYBE dragon, no one has ever heard of this chick before, or even knows what the fuck "joshi" is, but they voted for her becuase she is japanese and Echsaid so.

Acting like you know what the fuck you are talking about after watching three youtube matches, and trying to assualt sly for "Not knowing what he is talking about" is about the dumbest most hypocrtical bullshit ever.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I would assuredly HOPE thats not the only difference, in just name....you mean its not any different besides the fact its called Joshi, and its in japan?? Thats it??? so this is like a regular wrestling match??? If everyone is seriously basing Trish being at some huge disadvantage, when there is actually no situational or stipulational advantage for the other chick, this is pretty silly LOL

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Watch a few Mariko Yoshida matches

Ech.....

what did I JUST post like 7 posts ago in this thread?? I cant just watch a few matches and judge who is better?? I would still know nothing about the woman afterwatching a few matches. Thats like telling someone to compare Andre the giant and Charlie Haas on a few matches. Haas does a lot more fake moves better, so a lot of people would think he is better. I cant even begin to think I can make a afair judgement without knowing who the chick is, and what she is all about, and witnessing her impact.

 

[MattButcher]

As a wrestling fan who was familiar with Yoshida previous to this tournament and not someone who was simply swayed by anything that was posted by any Yoshida fans, I would have to say this match is in her favor. Trish is extremely popular, and I can understand why people are upset about the region, the seeding, or the location of the match. However, I would vote for Yoshida in any match except for a WWE regional match simply based on her strength, endurance, and technique. The fact that the match is occurring in Japan and in AJW only emphasizes that the match will be based around a physical, martial arts style.

AJW was one of the most popular wrestling promotions in Japan for around forty years and always focused on that style of wrestling. They have the booking, the training, and the infrastructure to produce and support a roster of women who perform in a stiff, athletic, combat based form of pro wrestling. The women on that roster have never done gravy boat matches, bra and panties matches, pillow fight tournaments or any of that other diva fluff. They are not fitness models looking for television exposure and their careers mirror their male counterparts rather than the typical brief and forgettable trajectory that several women in the diva system travel.

Of course foreign wrestlers can become successful and famous in Japan. Japan has been importing talent since Rikidozan wrestled the Destroyer, but it has to be based around the kind of gimmicks that are popular there. Gigantic people get over great, legendarily stiff workers do very well, and people with really solid wrestling technique tend to get notoriety (like Benoit or the Malenkos). I don't think Trish has those qualities. She could develop them, Alundra became a better wrestler after she toured Japan and worked in those dojos. As I have posted earlier, we may never see the full potential of some of the women who worked in the diva system due to the particular demands of that system. One of the reasons that older territory and WWF performers, indy performers, and Japanese performers are so over with a certain fan base is that we have been able to see their great feuds, and their classic confrontations without having them sidetracked with stupid gimmick matches or bad "who is she sleeping with?" story lines.

I don't think I will be changing many minds when the climate of this board has reached the point where suggestions of watching more and different kinds of pro wrestling is met with angry repudiation, but I think there are plenty of justifications for voting Yoshida on this one.

 

[HEN]

1.) Not a popularity contest, tournament based on in ring skills...

Never mind all the joshi puroresu rules talk or anything else for that matter. Because of this plainly stated rule, Mariko Yoshida should be winning easily and without question... in any match, on any continent, with any rules. If you have not seen Yoshida's work (or Trish's for that matter), you should abstain from voting in lieu of the first rule because you cannot adequately and objectively compare the participants in-ring ability.

That said, Yoshida fluidly uses a myriad of submission holds and was also very adept at high flying. Conversely, Trish Stratus has been a botch machine, noted for her involvement in one of the worst Monday night prime time in-ring performances in history. Also, from an experience standpoint, Yoshida has been in wrestling longer, is well traveled (having wrestled in North America on several occasions), and has served as the teacher for some younger talents in Japan and North America, including talents like Ray and Cheerleader Melissa, for example. Trish's work is limited to her comparatively brief WWE experience.

And I'm not going to state something silly either... like "Yoshida would tie her in knots." Because it's not a shoot. It is simply a comparison of their in-ring abilities... as plainly stated in the first rule. All of the other stuff (joshi puro rules, match being in Japan) is just window dressing for the only real determining factor.

 

[Skullz Crack'Em]

Well, it looks like Trish has won this match against Mariko, which is a shame really. I admit, I didn't know anything about her before this tournament, but I did watch some of her matches and did some research on her, and I agree with Aphelion that she should of won this match, hands down. Everything about this match favoured Mariko Yoshida, there is no denying it, it was held in Japan, in AJW, under Joshi Style rules for crying out loud. Saying that Trish can win this match is no different than saying Tajiri can beat Hulk Hogan in the WWF/E, in the U.S., in a Cage match, and that's saying something.

 

[Slim Pickns]

Hulk Hogan would also crush Tajiri in Japan, under any rules, at any venue. The fact is Trish has never wrestled in Japan so there is no telling how she would do. I didn't have an educated enough opinion on Yoshida to make an honest vote so I didn't. Thats the route most people should have taken anyways, seeing as 1) they have only seen Yoshida on Youtube within the last week and 2) Trish has never wrestled in Japan. Considering those two factors, I cannot see how anyone other then Ech, Dragon, and Butcher (seems to know about women's wrestling) can say that Trish FOR SURE would lose.

 

[MattButcher]

Hulk Hogan would also crush Tajiri in Japan, under any rules, at any venue.

This is completely true, but Tajiri doesn't equal Yoshida in Japan. Tajiri was never so over as he was in ECW. Before that he was a promising new guy in Japan and after WWE he's never really been the same.

More importantly though, I don't think that Trish equals Hogan. I'm not a huge Hogan mark, but geez the guy has been synonymous with professional wrestling since I was a kid. Do people really think that Trish is comparable to that? If so, it's no wonder she's taking this one.