After 2/14/2011, have your standard of main eventer gone up?

[a member of wwe universe]

This thread focuses only on the fans, not the company

I hope after 2/14/2011, the fans would and should come to a realization of how horrendous the wwe product is. The entire roster combine cannot match the talent and star power of the great one. A guy who has been absent for 7 years can cut a promo that is undoubtedly the best promo in the last 5 years. When you see the rock, you see an icon, a real superstar.

It really shows that people have lowered their standard somehow and is willing to accept anything the wwe give them and consider great.

Did the rock's return make u have a higher standard, perception of main eventers? Your dolph zigler, wade barrette, kofi kingston, debiase, shamemus, swagger etc. that have been praised that they have the talent to main event. Ok when they reach the mainevent and then what? They get staled, nothing intrigue. They wont be a "star." I read a post where there was this guy said shamemus is a star and it makes me go crazy. If shamemus is a star, then what is ausin and rock then?

 

[ThUnDeRpHoEnIx]

Rock and Austin are legends.Those guys you mentioned will never reach there level.They will be in the main event someday but no one will reach their level.

The days of Rock and Austin are over.There will never be one again.They're may be another Sheamus or another Drew McIntyre but not another Rock and Austin.Professional Wrestling is losing its edge.What made the Attitude Era so popular was the fact that people cut exciting promos the entire time.The last time I heard a exciting promo besides when the Rock returned was when...well i cant really remember.

 

[TUFFY54]

There is one main reason the Rock had such an epic promo...it wasn't scripted! Sure, they gave him his talking points, but he knew what to say, and not to say, based on crowd reaction. You could deffinatly tell he was going with the flow out there. Thats what made it seem so real. Thats what made all the great Attitude Era promo's so real. Every promo a guy does today is directly off of a script. I was listening to an interview with a former writer and he said that it is literly word for word. Thats why you can damn near tell what there going to say in their entire speech after the first sentence. The Rock showed that great characters come from the heart. You simply can't script emotion.

To answer your question: no my standard hasn't gone up. The Rock made the WWE locker room look pathetic tonight. He hasn't been in front of a live crowd in the better part of a decade and he cut a promo with more emotion, energy, and passion than damn near anything we have seen in the last ten years. It went beyond a return pop. His initial response was expected, the fact that the crowd got hotter and hotter until it was exploding showed he still had it. The sad thing is that no one on the WWE roster is near his level. If Cena, Orton, and Punk can't get a reaction like that already after years of practice, then I have no hope that they will after seeing it done the right way once.

 

[hoffman40]

Tuffy54 is absolutely right! Scripting has made the roster quite dull, the only two guys that made it work were Jericho and HHH, and possibly Orton. Rock, Austin, HBK, Flair, Jericho, Dusty all worked best off-the-cuff unscripted. Let's not forget what made Cena so popular, pumping up the sneakers for the leg drop was one and the other was FreeStyle Rapping his Promos!!! Anti-hero Cena was a great character but when it took off and eventually when the PG censors came in is when Cena's all-around popularity took a nose dive.

But Let's get something straight...The Rock is one of a kind. There will never be another like him...Ever. As a matter of fact the only one that can come close to matching his charisma is Jericho, and he's on hiatus! As for the promo, it wasn't just the words, it was the wait, the timing, the movement around the ring, the walk to the ring, the subtle facial expressions...all in all it was first and foremost....BELIEVABLE! I'm in my Twenties, yes I love wrestling and yes we all know the inner workings of the business, but everything The Rock said last night I truly believed or it at least struck me as believable. Lets face it no other person has had the aura to translate his sports entertainment career into an A-List entertainment career seamlessly and without prejudice from show business. Rocky Has! The Rock is so good that he can go be a movie star and still have the same believability, wit, and improvisational skill that most creative minds envy.

I have to say like it or not Cena has exceeded expectations of him in the last 7 years. But comparing him or any current roster performer to The Rock, easily the greatest promo guy ever, is like comparing Sirloin to Filet Mignon. You take your chances on sirloin, but you always know filet will deliver.

Jim Ross said it best, "I hope the younger guys were watching in the back.". You bet your ass they were. At least the ones that care about the business were which suffice it to say includes Cena. Even Jericho twittered that the Rock is the greatest promo guy of all time. Jericho!!! Jericho who by the way was voted the number five promo guy of all time just under Michael Hayes, Stone Cold, Dusty Rhodes/Ric Flair, and..... You guessed it The Rock!

The rest of the roster better have taken notice tonite and Vince better have taken notes. The Rock just proved that the WWE is in the midst of boredom.

 

[TheMainMan32]

No, my standards never changed. I was raised on wrestlers like The Rock, Stone Cold, HBK, The Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, Mr. Perfect, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Taker, Y2J, The Ultimate Warrior- terrible wrestler but he got over, Andre The Giant, Hall and Nash, Sting, Ric Flair, The Million Dollar Man, The British Bulldog, Booker T, etc. That's why I get so irritated when someone tells me that Jack Swagger should be champion. It's like eating gourmet food for years, the having someone literally shove Fast Food town your throat and tell you that it's the same quality. Even if the Fast Food isn't terrible, it's still insulting.

I say shoving down your throat because somewhere along the line, Vince forgot that it's the crowd that determines who's over or not. Not whomever he thinks should be top face at the time.

 

[FreezeIzGAWD]

No, my standards never changed. I was raised on wrestlers like The Rock, Stone Cold, HBK, The Macho Man, Hulk Hogan, Mr. Perfect, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Mick Foley, Taker, Y2J, The Ultimate Warrior- terrible wrestler but he got over, Andre The Giant, Hall and Nash, Sting, Ric Flair, The Million Dollar Man, The British Bulldog, Booker T, etc. That's why I get so irritated when someone tells me that Jack Swagger should be champion. It's like eating gourmet food for years, the having someone literally shove Fast Food town your throat and tell you that it's the same quality. Even if the Fast Food isn't terrible, it's still insulting.

I say shoving down your throat because somewhere along the line, Vince forgot that it's the crowd that determines who's over or not. Not whomever he thinks should be top face at the time.

THANK U..... This is how I felt. I have always been a HUGE WRESTLING FAN! ALL FEDERATIONS! I was happy when I saw TNA was hitting SPIKE and I WAS PRAYING THAT THEY WOULD WORK BECAUSE I LOVE WRESTLING! The thing is I feel like BOTH FEDERATIONS SUCK NOW! I just don't care week in and week out anymore! That is what I think is missing... U DON'T CARE IF U MISS WRESTLING THIS WEEK OR NEXT! U don;t care if U miss SMACKDOWN EVER! That is what I miss.... Last night was the first time in AGES THAT I CAN TRULY SAY I FELT LIKE I CANNOT MISS NEXT WEEK!

Oh and yeah I did like when PUNK joined NEXUS too... That one caught me this year though I saw it coming during the program...

 

[SmattyG]

I may cop a lot of heat for this - but am I the only one who thought The Rock seemed outdated? It reminded me of the Eminem line about kids embarrassed that their parents still listen to Elvis. Sure, The Rock was massively over in the Attitude Era and is probably the best on the mic of all time. I was just thinking "what's the point?" the whole time though.

It took 20 minutes away from the youth movement. It made WWE's top star look foolish. It made anyone over 20 forget that Morrison, Sheamus, Kofi, Drew, Barrett, Ziggler etc even exist.

Reminds me of an old Stone Roses' lyric - "The past was yours but the future's mine" Unless it's Rock V Cena at WM27 this was awful. Mason Ryan should've come out and kicked Rock's ass. Keep in mind I'm 40 and lived through Attitude in my 20s and consider it probably the greatest era in all of professional wrestling. But it's 2011 now not 1998, and I don't see what relevance The Rock has in WWE today.

So no my standards haven't changed - Rock and Stone Cold and Hogan and Flair are of course all better than today's stars - but why oh why would you highlight it this close to the biggest PPV of the year?

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

I may cop a lot of heat for this - but am I the only one who thought The Rock seemed outdated? It reminded me of the Eminem line about kids embarrassed that their parents still listen to Elvis. Sure, The Rock was massively over in the Attitude Era and is probably the best on the mic of all time. I was just thinking "what's the point?" the whole time though.

It took 20 minutes away from the youth movement. It made WWE's top star look foolish. It made anyone over 20 forget that Morrison, Sheamus, Kofi, Drew, Barrett, Ziggler etc even exist.

Reminds me of an old Stone Roses' lyric - "The past was yours but the future's mine" Unless it's Rock V Cena at WM27 this was awful. Mason Ryan should've come out and kicked Rock's ass. Keep in mind I'm 40 and lived through Attitude in my 20s and consider it probably the greatest era in all of professional wrestling. But it's 2011 now not 1998, and I don't see what relevance The Rock has in WWE today.

So no my standards haven't changed - Rock and Stone Cold and Hogan and Flair are of course all better than today's stars - but why oh why would you highlight it this close to the biggest PPV of the year?

Probably because nobody was going to buy this biggest PPV of the year with the card full of the youth movement. If anything , this motivates the guys in the back to stride to be where the rock is in the eyes of the fans. Either that or it completely made most feel like there arent anywhere near the level of past superstars.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I think that this is the nostalgia talking more than anything else. The IWC absolutely loves the Attitude Era but the actuallity is that the Attitude Era wasn't nearly, not nearly, as good as they try to make it out to be. The few aspects that were as great as they remember it includes guys like The Rock. Not everything that happened during the Attitude Era was the 5 star epic, not by a long shot.

I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that The Rock is one of these few wrestlers that comes along maybe once a generation that is something of a category all his own. In the eyes of the IWC, if someone doesn't measure up to the lofty standards of an HBK or a Rock then they're not good wrestlers. By using the same logic, I could say that comparing the Rock to Hulk Hogan is comparing a scrub to "a real superstar". After all, The Rock never pulled in the kind of figures that Hulk Hogan did right? He didn't headline a show that drew a 14 Nielsen Rating during prime time on NBC did he? He never headlined the wrestling card that drew the largest number of fans for any event in American wrestling history did he? Did he ever headline ppvs that drew buyrates of 2, 3 or even 4 million as Hulk Hogan did? Simply put, the answer is no. But does that mean that The Rock is an inferior wrestler to Hulk Hogan? Using that sort of logic, the answer is yes he is. After all, it would indicate that the fans of Hulk Hogan's peak from the mid 80s to the early 90s simply liked what Hogan was doing much more than the fans of the Attitude Era liked what The Rock was doing.

When comparing the young stars of today, The Rock didn't start out as this mega star that had fans hanging on everything he did or said. Will any of them be on the same level as The Rock? Probably not. But it'll actually take a little time to find out.

 

[ITALIAN NYC]

The reason you wont find a star like that anymore is because the WWE restricts the wrestlers from actually doing and saying what they want in the ring. Take away those restrictions and give them a little freedom on the mic, then obv they will sound better. In reality, the WWE now a days is acting. Coming to the ring and memorizing your lines and speaking them. If they were real actors, every member of the locker room would be in movies. The WWE need to realize that these guys arent actors and dont have those speaking skills. Let them go out there and talk how they normally would talk. Hence the reason why everyone was good on the mic in ECW.

 

[SmattyG]

Probably because nobody was going to buy this biggest PPV of the year with the card full of the youth movement. If anything , this motivates the guys in the back to stride to be where the rock is in the eyes of the fans. Either that or it completely made most feel like there arent anywhere near the level of past superstars.

This is where I have some trouble. Today's stars can't possible compete with The Rock or Stone Cold so why not strive to be something different instead of trying to reach that level? WM27 will sell regardless - you could put David Arquette V Mike Adamle in the main event and it will still sell - It's Wrestlefreakingmania - why not let the youth movement run with the ball and see what they can do. I see your point about raising the bar for the guys in the back, and we all know guys like DiBiase, Swagger, Kofi, Daniel Bryan, JoMo etc could do with some promo lessons - but by highlighting it so starkly against probably the best promo guy of all time this close to WM is just counter-productive.

I'm more looking forward to Brodus Clay and Derrick Bateman on NXT this week than whatever The Rock does next Raw. Why? Coz it's 2011.

 

[Bobholly39]

This thread focuses only on the fans, not the company

I hope after 2/14/2011, the fans would and should come to a realization of how horrendous the wwe product is. The entire roster combine cannot match the talent and star power of the great one. A guy who has been absent for 7 years can cut a promo that is undoubtedly the best promo in the last 5 years. When you see the rock, you see an icon, a real superstar.

It really shows that people have lowered their standard somehow and is willing to accept anything the wwe give them and consider great.

Did the rock's return make u have a higher standard, perception of main eventers? Your dolph zigler, wade barrette, kofi kingston, debiase, shamemus, swagger etc. that have been praised that they have the talent to main event. Ok when they reach the mainevent and then what? They get staled, nothing intrigue. They wont be a "star." I read a post where there was this guy said shamemus is a star and it makes me go crazy. If shamemus is a star, then what is ausin and rock then?

It sounds to me like your argument here goes along the lines of:

"WWE stars/main eventers today suck, and hence the WWE product today majorly sucks, because none of today's main events can reach even a fraction of Rock's lvl, whose been gone 7 yrs".

I think that's the gist of what ur saying, right?


The only issue with this is that: it's BECAUSE it's the Rock. he is just that good. back when he was fully active, he stilld stood apart from everyone else, and so he does again today. his being as good 7 yrs later is a testament to his talent/skill, and not an estimate of other current main eventer's talents.

 

[Stormlor]

This thread focuses only on the fans, not the company

I hope after 2/14/2011, the fans would and should come to a realization of how horrendous the wwe product is. The entire roster combine cannot match the talent and star power of the great one. A guy who has been absent for 7 years can cut a promo that is undoubtedly the best promo in the last 5 years. When you see the rock, you see an icon, a real superstar.

It really shows that people have lowered their standard somehow and is willing to accept anything the wwe give them and consider great.

Did the rock's return make u have a higher standard, perception of main eventers? Your dolph zigler, wade barrette, kofi kingston, debiase, shamemus, swagger etc. that have been praised that they have the talent to main event. Ok when they reach the mainevent and then what? They get staled, nothing intrigue. They wont be a "star." I read a post where there was this guy said shamemus is a star and it makes me go crazy. If shamemus is a star, then what is ausin and rock then?

It showed me how bad the development camps are at FCW. Some of those guys are good talent like Sheamus, and so is Wade. The others are all sub-par to be honest. Nobody in that group you mentioned will ever reach the levels of Michaels, Hart, Triple H, Rock, Austin, or even Mick Foley ever in there career.

The reason being is because back then when Austin was around, and same with Michaels, and Bret they were passionate about wrestling. Pleasing the fans, gaining an audience, selling merchandise. For them it was cool and they enjoyed it.

The new guys are eh, who cares give me my damn paycheck and we will call it a day. Merchandise doesn't really exist anymore seeing you can make your own shirts. These guys are all about money, and really none of them spent the money to go to a good wrestling school other then Sheamus really as he graduated from HBK's school in Texas and I think I remember reading that Wade graduated from Doug William school in England as well. I could be wrong on those, but vaguely I remember reading that.

 

[closet_fan]

It showed me how bad the development camps are at FCW.

which is why i think it's a good thing that HHH wants to overhaul the entire thing, get rid of it and appoint JR as a "scout." With the FCW, you will have guys that are just too green on the mic and in the ring. Buf if you have JR go out and find talent that already has those things, ala Brian "YES" Brian Danielson, it will make the new guys that come in that much better because they already have those skills in place.

Cena has good mic skills. And if he was allowed to say what he wanted to say, I'd think he would be even better. But Rock's promo showed me just how BAD Orton is.

 

[Slyfox696]

What's REALLY funny about this thread is that in 15 years, fans will be saying the EXACT SAME THING about the then current wrestlers when comparing them to guys like Cena, Undertaker, Triple H, Edge, etc.

"These guys clearly just can't cut a promo like Edge could"..."These guys just don't come close to putting on exciting matches like Undertaker and Cena could"..."These guys just don't have that champion quality about them like Triple H did".

So many of you have ZERO perspective when it comes to wrestling, probably because you haven't been a wrestling fan for very long. Once you have been watching wrestling for more than 20 years (and I'm sure those who have seen it for 30 or 40 years would say the same of those with 20), you begin to see things in a different light.

Pro wrestling is no different than your major sports when it comes to superstars. Ten years ago, people were lamenting the fact there would never be another NBA superstar like Larry Bird or Magic Johnson. They said we'd never see an Isiah Thomas. Kareem Abdul-Jabar would never be matched. Michael Jordan would always be in an atmosphere of his own. And yet, here we are today, with guys like Kobe, Pierce, LeBron, Wade, Anthony, etc...all of whom are some of the greatest superstars the NBA has seen. But where are the Joe Montanas and the Lawrence Taylor's of the world? They exist in Tom Brady, Peyton Maning, and Brian Urlacher.

So many fans have such difficulty separating themselves from nostalgia to see what kind of greatness they have in front of them. Top to bottom, the WWE has FAR more superstars than the Attitude Era did. I mean, when the Road Dogg Jesse James is one of the most iconic wrestlers from the Attitude Era, you know it wasn't exactly loaded with talent. Does anyone in the current generation compare to Austin or Rock? Well, no, of course not, but then again, neither of them compare to Hulk Hogan, so what's your point?

The fact of the matter is today's WWE is far more interesting than the Attitude Era was, and to say otherwise is just being nostalgic and silly.

 

[InuJoshua]

So what do you expect? Should we scrap the World and WWE titles because nobody on the roster is the calibur of The Rock? The freakin Rock!?

Like Slyfox said, the Attitude Era's roster was weaker than this "PG" roster when you look from top to bottom. But part of the reason it's so fondly remembered is because it had both Rock and Austin, two of the most charismatic performers in the history of the business competing at the same time. Throw Jericho, HHH Kurt Angle into the conversation and you have one of the greatest main event rosters in the company's history. But the rest of the card sucked... Crash Holly (RIP) was a multi time champion, Steve Blackman had less personality than most of the PG roster and was in high profile feuds, hell... The Godfather was one of the most over people on the roster at his peak.

Yesterday's promo was exciting and I was on my feet the whole time. But to say no one can cut a promo in today's WWE is laughable too. People praise CM Punk and Miz on a daily basis on these forums, but all of a sudden, they don't exist. And only the biggest anti-Cena mark would try and say that he's not great on the mic when he's let loose, like the retirement speech, (non-retirement aside.) I don't know how it came off on TV, but I was there live and about half the crowd turned on Rocky once he started trash talking Cena. By that reaction, Cena has to be over at a similar level than The Rock.

And to say Cena's never gotten a pop like that is ridiculous. Remember his Royal Rumble return? And as far as this years Rumble... of course Diesel got a bigger pop, that character hasn't been on TV in over 15 years! The truth is that Cena and Orton are the Austin/Rock or Hogan/Warrior of this generation, and no amount of wishing for the Attitude Era will bring it back. It's already been said, but while Cena/Orton aren't The Rock, who is? Just like Rock and Austin never matched Hogan. I'm looking forward to when Cena and Orton retire and we're having this exact same conversation.

 

[classicviolence]

Personally as a life long fan of puroresu and all genres of wrestling my Main Eventer standards have never dropped. The current generation only has 3 proven main eventers that main event every PPV since 2007. (Orton, Cena and Edge) Everyone else is in transition into reaching that level. (Miz, Sheamus, ADR, JoMo etc.) And those guys that I just metioned believe it or not has the aura of The Rock or a Stone Cold.

Orton is the closest out of the young guys, that is reaching that status faster than his peers because he is believable in everything he says and does. With that being said it was good to see The Rock on RAW doing what he does, and electrify the crowd. The man is just gold on the mic and I hope he stays for a while like Bret did last year.

 

[Craig_Fton]

I doubt that the Rock will have any match unfortunately in the WWE. However if he did you would have to assume it is against the face of the WWE in Cena. If so the card would look

HHH - Taker
Cena - Rock
Orton - Punk
Edge - Del Rio

Then who in this world vs, the Miz? Lawler as the champ? Cena will be facing Miz with the Rock, Lawler, and Cole involved somehow.

 

[Slyfox696]

So what do you expect? Should we scrap the World and WWE titles because nobody on the roster is the calibur of The Rock? The freakin Rock!?

Like Slyfox said, the Attitude Era's roster was weaker than this "PG" roster when you look from top to bottom. But part of the reason it's so fondly remembered is because it had both Rock and Austin, two of the most charismatic performers in the history of the business competing at the same time. Throw Jericho, HHH Kurt Angle into the conversation and you have one of the greatest main event rosters in the company's history. But the rest of the card sucked... Crash Holly (RIP) was a multi time champion, Steve Blackman had less personality than most of the PG roster and was in high profile feuds, hell... The Godfather was one of the most over people on the roster at his peak.

Yesterday's promo was exciting and I was on my feet the whole time. But to say no one can cut a promo in today's WWE is laughable too. People praise CM Punk and Miz on a daily basis on these forums, but all of a sudden, they don't exist. And only the biggest anti-Cena mark would try and say that he's not great on the mic when he's let loose, like the retirement speech, (non-retirement aside.) I don't know how it came off on TV, but I was there live and about half the crowd turned on Rocky once he started trash talking Cena. By that reaction, Cena has to be over at a similar level than The Rock.

And to say Cena's never gotten a pop like that is ridiculous. Remember his Royal Rumble return? And as far as this years Rumble... of course Diesel got a bigger pop, that character hasn't been on TV in over 15 years! The truth is that Cena and Orton are the Austin/Rock or Hogan/Warrior of this generation, and no amount of wishing for the Attitude Era will bring it back. It's already been said, but while Cena/Orton aren't The Rock, who is? Just like Rock and Austin never matched Hogan. I'm looking forward to when Cena and Orton retire and we're having this exact same conversation.

Great post, agree almost entirely. And you're right about the Godfather being one of the more over workers in the Attitude Era, which I think says all that needs to be said about the quality of talent at the time.

I also want to address what you said about people turning on the Rock when he started bashing Cena. I noticed that as well watching it on TV. I thought I heard some boos, and suddenly it didn't seem like everyone was hanging on his every word. I think they were still entertained by what he said, but at the same time, I don't think that just by showing up, people are going to switch their allegiance from the hardest working man in the business for the last 6 years, to the guy who left them hanging 7 years ago. Of course, all of the teenagers who think swearing makes a superstar will turn on Cena for the Rock, but like you said, it didn't seem as if everyone was with Rock on that one.

I also find it amusing how much criticism Rock got for leaving the WWE, for "selling out" and yet when he comes back, he's the greatest ever. And like we both said, when Orton, Triple H and Cena are all finished, people will be saying the same things about them they say now about the Rock.

I just wish people bothered with a LITTLE perspective. Good post.

 

[nerd4life]

Does anyone in the current generation compare to Austin or Rock? Well, no, of course not, but then again, neither of them compare to Hulk Hogan, so what's your point?

The fact of the matter is today's WWE is far more interesting than the Attitude Era was, and to say otherwise is just being nostalgic and silly.

what is wrong with you?

wwe today more interesting then attitude era? you must be under 13 because thats a joke.

austin and rock dont compare to hogan?? id say austin,rock>>hogan

 

[f_roEDGE]

Personally I think the standards of the IWC have not changed. We have been talking about problems in the WWE forever.

We always wanted WWE to give the youth movement a chance, yet we complain when they do it. Why do we complain? Because of what we saw in the ring last night. The mindset of main eventer has changed in the WWE, and that is why nobody attempts to electrify like The Great One.

But after last night, while the standards of the IWC won't change, I guarantee you that the standards of Vince will. I guarantee you that the standards of every WWE employee will change. The next time we see Cena, JoMo, Del Rio, Ziggler...anybody...cut a promo, it will be great because they want the reaction that The Rock had. Hopefully they will keep it up for years to come!

So many of you have ZERO perspective when it comes to wrestling, probably because you haven't been a wrestling fan for very long. Once you have been watching wrestling for more than 20 years (and I'm sure those who have seen it for 30 or 40 years would say the same of those with 20), you begin to see things in a different light...

...The fact of the matter is today's WWE is far more interesting than the Attitude Era was, and to say otherwise is just being nostalgic and silly.

I disagree. The fact that WWE used to garner ratings in the high 6's, but struggle to obtain a 3.2 shows you that the stardom in the WWE isn't the same anymore. People love football now, and guys like Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford and Ndamukong Suh will keep it fresh, because we love them already. The WWE doesn't have the same future if they keep up this pace.

Stars like Hogan, Savage, HBK, Austin, Rock...their promos were amazing! That was when Main Eventers were the shit. Now, SAVE_US.222, in all its glory, wasn't enough to keep us happy (btw, I bet Jericho is itching to come back after 2/14/2011). A couple years back, Jericho won Superstar of the Year...as a heel!! That is how amazing his promos are compared to the 'talent' now. Sorry, Slyfox696, but my standards will not lower. It doesn't take 20 years, much less 30 mins (the time of Rock's promo), to know what's interesting, and ratings prove that.

 

[ANKHOR_MAN3]

It's funny how everybody when the rock was gone was like when is the rock going to come back when? When? when? Now that he has come back people still aren't happy. Let's face it the rock cut an amazing promo. The youth movement wrestlers aren't bad it's just that we have gotten older. During the Hogan days there wasn't swearing and a lot of blood. Wrestling is a cycle as the fans grow up with the company, the company as well grows up. There will be a day when the company begins to revert back to some attitude style ways. Not everything but it will get more mature.

 

[Slyfox696]

what is wrong with you?

Well, I can spell and capitalize my words correctly, perhaps that is what is throwing you off?

wwe today more interesting then attitude era?

In terms of wrestling promotion? By far. It's great you think scantily clad women, sacrilegious stunts and cursing is better than a good feud with good matches, but a true fan of the wrestling business will not agree with you.

you must be under 13 because thats a joke.

Actually, I'm 26 years old, and have been watching wrestling since the glory days of Hulkamania. Not sure what that has to do with anything, but since we're on the subject, how old are you and how long have you been watching? I'm guessing 15 or 16 years old, and you've been watching for no more than 10-12 years.

austin and rock dont compare to hogan?? id say austin,rock>>hogan

You'd be wrong. In just about every way possible.

I disagree. The fact that WWE used to garner ratings in the high 6's, but struggle to obtain a 3.2 shows you that the stardom in the WWE isn't the same anymore.

Yes and no. There's no star in the WWE as big as Rock or Austin were, but at the same time, if Rock and Austin were to come along now, the WWE wouldn't be seeing much more than the same 3.2 ratings.

The Rock and Austin came along at EXACTLY the right time for the wrestling business. Pop culture was about the basest of emotions, where the best TV was shock TV, and anything you could do to push the envelope usually was more beneficial than putting out a product which had a bit of quality to it.

Stars like Hogan, Savage, HBK, Austin, Rock...their promos were amazing! That was when Main Eventers were the shit. Now, SAVE_US.222, in all its glory, wasn't enough to keep us happy (btw, I bet Jericho is itching to come back after 2/14/2011). A couple years back, Jericho won Superstar of the Year...as a heel!! That is how amazing his promos are compared to the 'talent' now. Sorry, Slyfox696, but my standards will not lower. It doesn't take 20 years, much less 30 mins (the time of Rock's promo), to know what's interesting, and ratings prove that.

To go by ratings is to take a far too narrow view of the product. Yes, the WWE had ratings in the 5s and 6s in the Attitude Era years, but you know what they DIDN'T have? They didn't have the Internet and people streaming it or sharing the next day, they didn't have TiVo, they didn't have 750 channels people could choose from, they didn't have web sites which posted results as the show was going on, and they didn't have NXT, Superstars, and all the other TV shows we see today which dilute the product.

To compare ratings now to then is incredibly short-sighted, because the conditions which existed then are not the same now. You get rid of the other WWE shows, get rid of the Internet streaming, get rid of the BitTorrents sharing the shows, get rid of up-to-the-minute updates on websites, and get rid of over half the channels on television, and then see if the WWE's ratings go back up.

As far as cutting promos now, I sure hope you're kidding. There are plenty of guys in the WWE who cut great promos. It was just a couple months ago when Cena cut his retirement promo which had everyone second guessing if he really was leaving for a while. Promos are not just about making people laugh, which is what people seem to think whenever The Rock makes one of his short returns. Wrestling promos are about FAR more than just comedy. And there are several guys who do a good job with promos in the WWE.

 

[InuJoshua]

I disagree. The fact that WWE used to garner ratings in the high 6's, but struggle to obtain a 3.2 shows you that the stardom in the WWE isn't the same anymore. People love football now, and guys like Tim Tebow, Sam Bradford and Ndamukong Suh will keep it fresh, because we love them already. The WWE doesn't have the same future if they keep up this pace.

Stars like Hogan, Savage, HBK, Austin, Rock...their promos were amazing! That was when Main Eventers were the shit. Now, SAVE_US.222, in all its glory, wasn't enough to keep us happy (btw, I bet Jericho is itching to come back after 2/14/2011). A couple years back, Jericho won Superstar of the Year...as a heel!! That is how amazing his promos are compared to the 'talent' now. Sorry, Slyfox696, but my standards will not lower. It doesn't take 20 years, much less 30 mins (the time of Rock's promo), to know what's interesting, and ratings prove that.

I don't feel football, or any other sport is fair to compare to wrestling. People keep watching sports because they want to cheer for their teams and enjoy the competitiveness of the sport. Wrestling is staged and everybody knows it now. That's part of the reason for a drop in ratings.

The Hogan era had two things going for it; it was the first time wrestling got such huge exposure and at the time, most people thought that it was real. People ordered Wrestlemania to find out if Hulk could actually beat Andre. If that legendary match happened today, we would all know Hogan was going over and that it was planned way beforehand, (and probably bitch that Andre was too slow in the ring.)

My point is that I feel ratings have dropped more because the curtain has been pulled back more and more. The anti-PG argument has never held water with me because Hogan's time was full of actual cartoon characters like Kamala, IRS and Papa Shango and was far more tame than today's wrestling, but it pulled bigger numbers than the Attitude Era. You couldn't go anywhere without seeing Hogan, (he had his own music video, cartoon, numerous movies and TV shows alone.) On the flip side, the IWC treat Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels like gods, but when they were on the forefront, the company damn near went out of business. It goes to show that viewership and ratings have little to do with the quality of the work, but a combination of trends in the market and the cycles in the business. Let's face it, wrestling just isn't the "cool thing," right now.

And we seem to forget in the face of nostalgia that ratings were already on their way down while Rock and Austin were at the end of their respective runs. I feel "What?" Austin and "Hollywood" Rock was the peak of both men's work, but ratings didn't show that. Not because they were less talented, but because the public wanted something different.

IMO, it wasn't a bad thing that Jericho won superstar of the year as a heel. Not only is he one of the best workers of all time, but now that the curtain is non-existent, fans tend to honor the best workers regardless of their alignment. The hardcore fan supports hard workers, but perhaps that's part of the problem. The hardcore fan are the people who stick with it. The other half of the 6.0 ratings from the Attitude Era watched because it was edgy and cool. Trends change, so now they've moved on to what's cool today, and now that Attitude has already been done, it's hard to say if the WWE will find that niche again.

 

[bigdogstalfos]

No, my standards remain the same as before. Why? Let's use an analogy. If I invent a time machine, bring back Ted Williams from 1941, throw him out there as Boston's left fielder, and watch him hit .400, am I going to suddenly say Albert Pujols and Josh Hamilton are bums because they aren't as good as Ted Williams? No, that would be silly. The same is true here.

The Rock is arguably the best wrestler of all time on the mike. Unless wrestling has become some dualistic medium where you are either the best or absolute garbage and everything is relative, how good the Rock is does not affect how good Cena and Miz are. That promo Miz gave last year about how he was hazed by JBL is still very good. The fact the Rock's promo last night was better does not make Miz's bad. The same is true with Cena's "retirement" promo. Just because it isn't the best doesn't mean it's bad. Contrary to what Talladega Nights told you, "if you're not first, you're last" is not really a valid philosophy.

As regards the Attitude Era, I have to agree with those who say it wasn't some pro wrestling Eden. I didn't want to belive it at first (nostalgia is a powerful force), so I did an experiment. I dusted off the N64 and threw in Wrestlemania 2000 and No Mercy and looked at the rosters. I was rather surprised at the results. Once you got past the stellar main event lineup, you had gimmicks which included the following: a pimp (Godfather); a porn star (Val Venis); a sex slave (Meat); a man with severe satyriasis (Mark Henry); a stable created entirely to take a shot at the Parents Television Council (Right to Censor); and a guy who got over by being a fat dude who stuck his ass in guys' faces (Rikishi). That doesn't even include guys who didn't even make the game, like such gems as The Oddities, that stable of circus freaks. You can't say these are good ideas. In fact, they're pretty much universally terrible. They just had shock value. They're not edgy anymore. They're just bad.

Nostalgia is a powerful thing. Hornswoggle is pretty useless and gets ripped on for insulting our intelligence because leprechauns aren't real. Apparently vampires are far more credible, as you never hear that criticism about Gangrel. Maybe that's just because The Brood had really good entrance music.

WWE is far from perfect, but at least now, if something is bad, like Edge kidnapping Paul Bearer, I can just laugh it off for how silly it is. It's better than being offended. Remember, the shining, golden Attitude era produced Katie Vick and Mae Young's hand/baby.