A Revelation about Vince McMahon

[It's...Baylariat!]

Vince McMahon doesn't want to listen to the fans. Think about this for a second here. Why would a creator of a show - say Mad Men for example - listen to fans about what to do with Don Draper, the lead man and his costars? The point of writing is to CREATE SOMETHING that the fans want to watch, not just listen to what the fans want and write it down.

So those that say Vince is out of touch? I say, Vince merely is hanging on to the rush of creating something that the fans like and taking 100% credit for it.

If he listened to other ideas and those ideas became gold, then Vince would know that he had little to do with it, but if he comes up with the idea and it's a hit, then Vince goes to bed knowing he's responsible for his company thriving.

So the revelation I have had is that Vince McMahon isn't terrible for not listening to what the fans want, because it's HIS job to help create something that the fans want to see, not the fan's job to tell Vince what to put on TV.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

The difference is that people are not paying lots of money to watch a TV Series.

The wrestling fans shell out a lot of money for events and merchandise and want to see the best perform and be rewarded.

I see what you are saying but don't think it is a great comparison

 

[Miko]

Creators of tv shows can claim "artistic integrity" which is good, because tv is shit when it delves into fan service, just look at Scrubs. However, in most tv popular characters start to get more air time, which is a mixed bag, the other "less is more" route is like Blackadder, Flashheart makes 2 appearances despite immense popularity.

All this is designed to improve television. Only in WWE do you see someone told to change everything that is working well for them and basically get sabotaged only for the twat who made him do it say "he's not connecting with the fans".

 

[Mustang Sally]

I say, Vince merely is hanging on to the rush of creating something that the fans like and taking 100% credit for it.

That makes sense, and also might help explain why, according to the rumor mills, he seems to be over-managing the product, changing the script 16 times before the program airs.....and even switching things up during air-time.

Is it necessary? Do all the changes actually provide a better product for the fans to see.....or is it just a person with unlimited power (and the master of all he surveys!) indulging himself, self-assured in the knowledge that everything he does is the correct thing? (Might makes right!)

I can understand the initial assertion; there's dubious value in Vince "listening to the fans." Those good folks aren't telling him what's best for business; in most cases, they're simply telling what they personally want to see, which often deals only with a specific performer and doesn't take into account how the company as a whole will be affected.

If Vince wants, he can check out the Internet (or more likely, have an employee check it out for him) and sift through the ideas put in front of him. But when it comes time to write the show, it's on him.....and whatever employees he might (or might not) choose to listen to that get the product on the air.

That he might not be making good use of the people around him is probably a much larger problem than not doing what the fans want.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As far as Vince listening to the fans is concerned, he's never done that and, in all honesty, nor has really any other promoter with a massive ego until/unless it's revealed that said promoter really has no choice. Look at the reaction for the planned Orton vs. Batista match for WrestleMania XXX. While there's obviously no such thing as all fans speaking with a single & united voice in any particular subject, we had probably about as close to that happening as we're likely to get with fans wanting Bryan in that match. There's ultimately no way of knowing whether or not it was always planned for Bryan to be in the main event or not, but to say that there was a massive display of dissatisfaction towards the reported WM main event would be an understatement.

The problem with Vince creating something that people wanna watch is that he's ultimately creating a lot more things that people just don't wanna watch. In my opinion, there's too much of the "sports entertainment" filler going on right now, too many uninteresting characters running around, guys getting something of a push that probably shouldn't be and just all around stuff that nobody's interested in. For instance, what's going on with the Bella Twins? When did Brie suddenly turn heel? Will she suddenly turn face by turning on her sister and, if so, will we get an explanation as to what took so long? Also, the stuff with Adam Rose, Kane & the Bunny last night is a perfect example of said "sports entertainment" filler. Twenty five years ago, people may have booed Kane for beating up a guy in a bunny suit but now they cheer for it. Why? Because most people are annoyed with the entire notion of a man dressed in a rabbit costume eating up airtime that could be devoted to something more worthwhile.

Vince is a control freak and egomaniac, that's common knowledge. I have little doubt he'd claim responsibility for the "good" that's going on while taking none of the blame for the criticism. His ego's too big for that, so he tries to dole it out mostly onto the wrestlers themselves. In his mind, it must make sense or he believes that everyone else in the world has an IQ of 50 because the wrestlers can only do what they're instructed to by management. He likes for just about everything he considers important to be completely under his thumb, but people are just flat out losing interest in the product and the blame has to be placed somewhere. Since he's ultimately THE final word, it has to go to him. Fans are just not digging the product right now for a variety of reasons, wrestlers backstage are unhappy and feel that a major creative change needs to take place, some investors are so disenfranchised with Vince that they either want him to sell the company or to step down as CEO. In my opinion, and that's all it is, it's genuinely time for Vince to do something that's "best for business", put his ego aside and either step down or ultimately allow Triple H to have full creative control.

 

[CyberPunk]

Vince may or may not be listening to the fans. Of course, he can't do everything that the fans want. At times, WWE does listen to the fans and we get Daniel Bryan. At other times, WWE doesn't listen to the fans and we get Cesaro. Vince's problem at this time is more into creative. His 'sports entertainment' brand of wrestling is what hurting the main shows.

TLC was perfect example of a thrown together show. There was no real storyline progression. Rushed booking, no rhyme or rythm to the feuds, asinine spots (exploding monitors?), Total Diva's feud on WWE show, all of these just go on to show that they had no preparation going into the last PPV of the year. What Vince needs to do at this point is have more consistency in booking. Why has Ambrose lost every single PPV match since breaking out of the Shield? Where was Cesaro last night? What's Reigns doing with randomly attacking Fandango and now teasing a feud with Big Show? Where's the logic behind all these?

 

[OYDK]

Um, when has Vince ever listened to the fans? You think when Vince goes out in front of a crowd and says, "You don't know what you want, I know what you want", that he doesn't actually believe that? Of course he does. The only reason we got changes during the 90's was because of the WCW threat, but before that, WWE was basically the same kind of promotion for years and years. Even the AE wasn't created to "appease the fans"; it was created as a desperate ploy to try and compete again with WCW, and luckily, it worked wonders.

Vince will change his product once WWE gets desperate again, which actually may not be too far down the road. Vince however, will not change his product to appease the IWC or the more hardcore fans just because they hate it. You hit the nail on the head when you said it's Vince's job to create compelling TV, not to try and appease every single fan. That's always been Vince's mindet and I'm sure it still is.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

You hit the nail on the head when you said it's Vince's job to create compelling TV, not to try and appease every single fan. That's always been Vince's mindet and I'm sure it still is.

That's true. I've defended Vince pretty strongly over the years for some decisions and it's definitely true that he can't just cater to the whims of every single fan. It's impossible to do when you consider how fickle some fans can be and/or how their whims can change at the drop of a hat. I honestly believe that he's making the choices that he feels are the best, he's not going to do anything to intentionally try to hurt WWE.

The problem is that it's not just hardcore & internet fans or the usual complaints from dirt sheet writers who give WWE grief most of the time no matter what choices are made. It's also more casual fans who're not complaining, it's many wrestlers on the roster who're frustrated because they see what's going on in NXT and feel that it's much better than what's happening on the main roster and, as I mentioned, there are some investors who've lost faith in Vince and believe it's time for something to change, with that something ultimately being him being THE final word. When you have so many different people coming from all different areas from consumers to insiders to investors simultaneously telling you that something needs to change, there should be something that clicks in your head telling you that it's time to stop and listen.

 

[Radical]

True, Vince is NOT trying to do everything the fans like because that is impossible to do. You can never please everybody all the time. I believe Vince is TRYING to please most of the people but I think he is a bit out of touch with what the fans want but I'm sure he's listening to the fans all the time AT THE SHOWS but not on Twitter or E-mail or anything like that.

Did you see the Stone Cold podcast with Vince? LOL did you see how super awkward and almost disgusted Vince was when Stone Cold was pushing Vince to tell fans how they can contact the WWE to give feedback? Vince wanted to JUST tell fans to go to the shows (i.e. pay me money) and then let us know how you feel through cheers, boos or silence. Vince has ZERO interest in hearing feedback from fans if they aren't sitting in an arena for WWE event. Stone Cold kind of pushed it on Vince to say that fans could give feedback to Vince through Twitter and you could tell Vince was doing all he could to not say "Hell NO!" to everybody.

This confirms that Vince definitely is not looking for ideas or feedback from fans for creative decisions ONLY if it comes through the crowd, through boos, cheers, silence, or chants. That's the only thing Vince is listening to.

THAT is why Vince still loves Cena in all those Main Events because Cena still gets a massive reaction where ever he goes. And Vince is going to ride that until it's bone dry.

As a fan, this revelation is kind of upsetting because, personally, I'd love to see WWE portray itself more like a true sport and focus on #1 Contender matches and tournaments and, of course, title matches and tournaments. WWE.com has a weekly Power Rankings but I wish WWE TV would acknowledge that more often, even SHOW it each week. That would bring more of a 'real sport' feel to the show.

But because Vince doesn't listen to fans that will only happen if Vince is 'feeling it' and it doesn't happen too often at all. He has a different mind set, clearly, so he's going to go with that.

When it comes down to it, I often have to remind myself that WWE TV is like a variety show and Late Night talk variety TV show where they put out a massive amount of new content each week and they do try to hit a lot of demographics and because of that you are just not going to like everything you see and you have to decide for yourself if you like ENOUGH of what is happening to keep watching or if it's just too much 'bad' for you to take then you can watch something else until maybe WWE TV gets better.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Why should Vince listen to the fans? Wrestling fans don't know what they want.

They will be high on a guy one week, but a couple of losses, and then they give up on him.

Fans take all the credit for building stars, yet put all responsibility on WWE to make the fans want to get behind someone by giving them the world, and then still complain because no-one who they like gets over. They blame Vince for everything, but give him none of the credit.

The stars WWE builds are never the ones the fans want to be pushed, since the Attitude Era. Whoever WWE gets behind, the fans accuse WWE of "shoving down their throats", and want someone else pushed instead. They want the underdog to get the belt, but then get sick of him being on top, and turn on him, and then support the new "next champion".

No matter how good WWE does anything these days, it isn't as good as the "Attitude Era".

Guess what. The customer ISN'T always right. That is a stupid saying. If the customer could do better, they would have started their own wrestling company, and done things better. You are the customer for a reason- because you can't do what Vince does, otherwise, why don't you, since you know better than him. You don't run a wrestling company, or have to focus on what sells, so what would you know anyway.

Maybe Vince changes up the script of Raw, because he is afraid of how Raw will be received. No matter how good it is, people will take it apart online, and people like Mark Madden will criticize it.

I think it is time that WWE draw a line in the sand. You are either with them or you aren't. The loyal will stay with them, and the rest would have found an excuse to leave anyway. WWE should do storylines THEY think sell.

The fact is, many people here complain about WWE, because it is cool to bag things on the internet these days. If the net had been around in the Attitude Era, you would have criticised that too, because that is what people do on the internet.

Maybe you people are the problem.

Besides, for a company who are so "out-of-touch" with their fans, they are a multi-million dollar company, who sponsors and advertisers flock to, and are the only major wrestling company still in existence. They must be appealing to someone.

 

[chuckmdubya]

You know, we all come on wrestlezone and other sites and pretend we all know what is best for wrestling. Granted, this is a platform that wrestling fans have not had very long and is the first time in wrestling history that we have a genuine outlet to voice our opinions and predictions. Maybe years ago, people were saying the same thing about Vince, but I really doubt it. So simultaneously we have the outlet to opine, and we have WWE leadership undergoing change. Yes, Vince is still in charge, but now he's got different voices in his ear.
I personally, refuse to believe that all of the sudden, the greatest mind in wrestling history is out of good ideas. IWC is so quick to blame Vince for the direction WWE is going. So quick to say McMahon is out of touch. I propose that it is not Vince that is the Problem, but HHH or Steph, or whoever is telling him what "21st century fans want to see. My guess is as good as and as informed as anyone else's on here, and logic tells me that Vince didn't all of the sudden get stupid, instead I believe Vince is getting older and looking to tur over the reigns, and the only way to get good at something is practice. He's giving HHH and Steph practice here, and they are starting to figure out what works and what doesn't .
One of HHH's greatest talents is his ability to get and stay relevant. He somehow became very popular, despite having possibly the worst gimmick of all time. He continued to tweak his gimmick until he was "the guy." He'll figure it out eventually, and before we know it we'll all be marking out, like we did in '97.

 

[Nada]

Is this a chicken or the egg sort of discussion?

In WWE's presentation of pseudo reality, its Vince creation when he does well, mid 80s, late 90s. When things arent going as well, mid 90 and...welll last 10 or so years, its the fault of the Congress for bringing him in front of a judge, millennials who refuse to grab the "brass ring" and every other excuse in the book.

Regardless of ones opinion, the fact is that last Raw did a 2.66, against one of the worst NFL games this year, football fans are still showing daily just to wash that stank off.

And that rating tells the tale whether he is out of touch or not. In his own words to Austin, he said that times have changed, which is why he employs 26 writers. That is all fine and dandy, but he is drawing a rating that WCW did at the start of 2000, featuring a riveting co main event of Stevie Ray vs Disco Inferno in a 2 minute, five star extravaganza.

Results, at the end of the day, do not lie. The counter argument to Cena haters has always been that he sold merch and brought decent ratings in his segments, which has been true for a good period of time. But if you want to stick to facts and numbers, then that has to be true for all wrestlers and promoters

 

[FromGlasgow]

I'm glad he doesn't always listen to the fans as the IWC are the loudest most opinionated of all WWE fans and if he listened to them everyone over the age of 30 would be deemed as ancient and banned from anywhere near a WWE ring and someone like Zack Ryder would have been the WWE's most dominant world champion in history.

 

[shalliin]

You know, we all come on wrestlezone and other sites and pretend we all know what is best for wrestling. Granted, this is a platform that wrestling fans have not had very long and is the first time in wrestling history that we have a genuine outlet to voice our opinions and predictions. Maybe years ago, people were saying the same thing about Vince, but I really doubt it. So simultaneously we have the outlet to opine, and we have WWE leadership undergoing change. Yes, Vince is still in charge, but now he's got different voices in his ear.
I personally, refuse to believe that all of the sudden, the greatest mind in wrestling history is out of good ideas. IWC is so quick to blame Vince for the direction WWE is going. So quick to say McMahon is out of touch. I propose that it is not Vince that is the Problem, but HHH or Steph, or whoever is telling him what "21st century fans want to see. My guess is as good as and as informed as anyone else's on here, and logic tells me that Vince didn't all of the sudden get stupid, instead I believe Vince is getting older and looking to tur over the reigns, and the only way to get good at something is practice. He's giving HHH and Steph practice here, and they are starting to figure out what works and what doesn't .
One of HHH's greatest talents is his ability to get and stay relevant. He somehow became very popular, despite having possibly the worst gimmick of all time. He continued to tweak his gimmick until he was "the guy." He'll figure it out eventually, and before we know it we'll all be marking out, like we did in '97.

HHH was never 'the guy'. he was and is 'the guy who married the bosses daughter'. Average in ring work, mediocre repetitive mic work, over blown hyped by wweto stay on his and Vince's good side and not make the family look weak. He h ad a look Vince liked and was in relationship with daughter, so Vince pushed him and basically let him do what ever he wanted.

 

[enviousdominous]

Oh good grief, comparing apples to oranges.

Mad Men isn't filmed within arenas typically reserved for sporting events while fans of the show scream suggestive chants and at times collectively show their disgust/approval of what they're seeing. Mad Men doesn't expect its fans to pay $9.99 for their season finales.

I've never really said that Vince is out of touch verbatem, I am of the opinion that he has attacks of either mundane sanity or bat shit insanity. I'm also of the opinion that, insane or lucid, he's a better expert on what would work on tv than the average John Q Dipshit in the audience.

Take a moment to look at what kind of involvement is typically allowed to the fans. Would you like to see John Cena face Damien Mizdow in a No Holds Barred, an Extreme Rules, or a Street Fight Match? Download the WWE App, which is free on either iTunes or GooglePlay to make your decision and have your voice heard!

No doubt Vince would rather have one of his ideas work than a random stroke of genius from a random fan. I've seen enough evidence over time that Vince hates making anything famous if it doesn't fully exploit what he's created or what he finds especially pleasing.

Fans don't have to run a multi-million dollar company. We can chant "CM Punk" all we want, that kind of thing only works if the business itself can possibly make it happen. We can chant "We Want Ryder" all we want, if they're sitting on a stock pile of merchandise that simply won't move then they're not likely to use him as much. We want many spontaneous aesthetics because most of us check our brains before zoning out to an episode of spandex combat. For more reasons than just having to keep their books balanced at the end of the fiscal year, the WWE does occasionally have to piss us off for our own good by flat out not listening to our cries for attention.

 

[Navi]

Now usually I'm not one to stick up for Vince McMahon because there are times I do think he's out of touch. That became painfully apparent in the Austin interview when he talked about the brass ring. The wrestlers on the main roster are out there working day in and day out, and the brass ring is nowhere to be seen. It's sitting on a ranch and only shows up occasionally. Hopefully that will change after Lesnar goes.

We have to realize, however, that he's running an entertainment company that is watched by millions of people each week. Fans range in age from 6 to 76, and he has to please all of them in some regard.

Do I like everything I see on RAW or Smackdown, no I don't, but the mature adult in me tells me that even if I don't find it appealing someone else does. For example, I don't like Rusev and Lana, but they are on every week and I use their segments to go get a coffee or have a smoke. Other fans love them and watch their promo's and matches and wouldn't miss them.

Don't like the Diva's either, think they're a waste of time. So should they be taken off the show? No because other's enjoy them. I would say out of the three hours of RAW each one of us can find something we enjoy on it. It would be nice to sit there and watch all 3 hours and say it was a great show, it will never happen. I do think that HHH will do a much better job of running things. He's got his finger on the pulse of the audience most times. You just have to look at NXT to see that.