A Parent's Homophobia (Scenario)- Is it Right or Wrong?

[The Insano Shiekh]

Okay, for the topic of this thread, I figured I should set up a scenario for the general topic of this thread- Is Homophobia All That Bad? Now, that doesn't give layaway that you shouldn't love all, as the Bible says, but you wouldn't want your child to be influenced by them, which is where the scenario comes from.

A man is against homosexuality but not against the people themselves, and doesn't want his child to be exposed to the wrong environment. So, each time he visits a Church, Ballpark, or Restaurant, he pulls his son away and they go sit in a more desolate place in the establishment, or in the Ballpark's case, go to the visiting team's side. Any time contact is made with a homosexual, the father kindly avoids them. One day, the son comes home and announces that his best friend is a homosexual, in which the father says that the two boys can no longer be friends.

In your opinion, do you think that scenario is rational or not?

 

[HBK-aholic]

Of course it's not rational, it's homophobic - the father is assuming there is something negative about the behaviour that he doesn't want his child to be influenced by. It's wrong, and there's no way around it. If his son is going to be homosexual, he will be with or without being around people of the same orientation. Most people don't one day just CHOOSE to fall for the same sex, its something you're born with, and actions like this do nothing except breed more homophobia as people are led to believe it's wrong.

 

[Soapguy]

I agree with Becca wholeheartedly, homophobia and objecting to homosexuality are two different things. I don't think homophobia is ever really justified.

While I may not agree with those who disagree with homosexuality, I can understand that it makes sense to them and it'll never really make sense to me. Mainly because I don't really take religious literature all that seriously. I understand that it's important for them, though.

If the father instilled in his son that homosexuals aren't bad or evil people, but simply people who live a life that his values don't agree with. Then I'd be fine with it, but the idea that he can't co-exist with homosexuals in anyway because they're this big scary thing is a little odd. It's also that behavior that leads people to think that it's okay to harm people simply because they're homosexual. The thought that all homosexuals are out to turn the kid creates even more fear in the kid. In a society like ours and with the types of masculine ideals that we tend to have that fear often manifests itself in the form of violence. Then people get beat up just for holding hands in public, or going on a date, or wearing something too flamboyant, or just existing. . .which is NEVER acceptable.

Also, it sounds like the guy is a out of luck. Gay happens, there's very little you can do to stop it. What he'll end up doing is making his closeted gay kid miserable or his non-gay kid afraid of gays. . .until, of course, the kid grows up and examines the issues for himself. . .which, with many people, never really happens. (A REALLY sad truth)

So, to recap because I went off on a bit of a tangent. . .homophobia= never acceptable. Disagreeing with homosexuality= understandable. (Though I may not fully understand it)

 

[Jack-Hammer]

What the OP is describing is simply homophobia at its core. The belief that hanging around with someone is gay can/will "turn you gay" is among the oldest, most deeply held beliefs of the most ardent homophobes. When I was growing up, I'd hear stuff like that all the time. Prejudice doesn't have to be right out in the open, after all. I believe Shakespeare said something along the lines of "One may smile and smile, and be a villain". A person can give off the impression of being open and tolerant, can say all the "right things", but can still be every bit a homophobe as the people holding up signs and saying gays should be put to death.

If a parent says that he/she doesn't want their kids associating with someone that is gay or be friends with someone that's being raised by a gay couple or has a gay parent, that's homphobia. Just as when a parent might say that they don't want you hanging out with black kids because they don't want you to start using slang terms or lingo like they might or dressing like they might could be considered racism. Of course, there are always some words and terms that most concerned parents would want their kids to avoid. That's just natural and good parenting. But those words and terms can be picked up anywhere and not just from kids of a different skin color.

 

[LigerBomb]

Okay, for the topic of this thread, I figured I should set up a scenario for the general topic of this thread

Spoiler

- Is Homophobia All That Bad[as compared to what exactly? Murder?]? Now, that doesn't give layaway [leeway?]that you shouldn't love all, as the Bible says, but you wouldn't want your child to be influenced by them, which is where the scenario comes from.

A man is against homosexuality but not against the people themselves, and doesn't want his child to be exposed to the wrong environment. So, each time he visits a Church, Ballpark, or Restaurant, he pulls his son away and they go sit in a more desolate place in the establishment, or in the Ballpark's case, go to the visiting team's side[Why is the visiting side empty? Do gays only root for the home team?]. Any time contact is made with a homosexual, the father kindly avoids them. One day, the son comes home and announces that his best friend is a homosexual, in which the father says that the two boys can no longer be friends.

In your opinion, do you think that scenario is rational or not?

You'd first have to make a compelling case that homosexuality is learned behavior and not determined by the brain/genetics at birth. That said there are those who believe such things so I suppose the situation is still somewhat valid.
So, for arguments sake let us suppose that homosexual behavior is a learned behavior. Your question then is "Is it rational for parents to restict or limit their children's interactions with people who have lifestyles and/or behaviors they find unbecoming?".
On first glance, I'd actually have to say 'yes'. It is in fact rational for a parent to do so. It's very rational and practically "common sense" --again this is assuming homosexuality is a learned behavior. However since that's in fact not the case it is somewhat irrational as it's behavior and actions that in no way impacts, creates, prevents or affects the intended outcome. Basically parents are doing A to prevent B even though B can't be prevented at all let alone by A. Yea, that's not rational.
I wonder though, do you perhaps mean 'right' or 'moral' rather than 'rational'? If you're just asking if it "makes sense" then I think I've answered the question clearly. However if you're trying to determine whether or not it's morally just or correct... well that's a totally different avenue to explore.
To be flat, parents are entitled to raise their children based on what's they think is best for the child/children. That said, whether it be explicit and overt or subtle via omittance and obstruction, segregation/fear/hate is probably not a positive or beneficial concept to instill in children. So with regards to your scenario I would have to say the father is ultimately "wrong" even though it's his "right".

 

[Dudebuster420]

So unless this is a "yes Man" topic what is anyone supposed to say contrary to what you have all reinforced not only as fact, but right and wrong? None of you want to be told right or wrong, fact or fiction but when it comes to telling anyone else you're Quick-Draw McGraw. In this or any other scenario I think the parent has every right to dictate who their child does and does not interact with be it someone who is gay, someone who uses drugs, skips school, runs with the wrong crowd, etc... I find it all too convenient as well that you only like to make up situations where someone IS being homophobic in some way as you martyr the gay community at it's feet and push your pro-gay agenda. According to all of you it's perfectly fine, nothing wrong with it or the lifestyle the majority of the gay community indulges in, and if you think otherwise there is something wrong with you. Newsflash! There are plenty of things about that lifestyle that are not exactly the kinds of things you'd want an adolescent picking up on. Kids don't need to be desensitized to everything, let them be kids. This also goes into saying let them have their friends, but one should obviously be concerned with who their kids are around.

Since homophobe is the #1 word in your dictionaries I've got a new one for you "Hetero-Phobic". You can put that one right up there with homophobic because as homophobic as you claim others to be and for as many people as you label "homophobic" your words and actions wreak of Hetero-phobia.

I don't have any problems with homosexuals myself. I have gay friends and have for years. I don't agree with that particular CHOICE they have made, and they don't understand my CHOICE of being straight so we're even. Otherwise we are great friends and we even joke with each other that each of us is going to turn the other somehow, it's actually pretty funny. They understand that not only did they make a CHOICE, but that with that CHOICE comes new territory, some of which may not be pleasant but that is what they CHOSE and so they like the father in the story just avoid being in the scenario where they'd have to deal with it.

I don't agree with the choice of the father in this story, my parents never told me "You can be friends with anyone except A, B, and C" But they did always tell me to be careful who I made friends with and that If I wanted a certain lifestyle there were definitely people out there who were going to help me go down that path if I CHOSE to pursue it whether it be right or wrong. Not only that, but that the friends I made was such a big decision because of the way who you hang out with reflects upon you. I remember by mom saying
"You play with shit, you get it on you. If you run with people who steal, others will think you too are a theif. If you run with druggies, others will think you too are a druggie, so be careful who you run with. Who you associate with is one of the most important CHOICES you will ever make in life as your friends will ultimately influence you greatly as well."

How true that is, and I found out just how true in years to come after hearing it. I have a 4 year old son, and I'm pretty sure when he's old enough I'm not going to want him to be running with certain people. Does that make me any of the labels some of you would so gladly slap on me? No. It makes me a concerned parent who is trying to watch out for their child's welfare, well being, and future for that matter. Meanwhile I'm not promoting intolerance of any kind, I'm not oppressing anyone for being gay, I'm not forcing my views on anyone my son included, he'll make his own decision I'll just try to help him make the right one.

Since I have been greatly involved in the gay community you can't tell me anything about it I don't know already. I know what it's like, I know what it's about, and I know what goes on. None of those things are anything my son would need to be apart of, or would benefit from being apart of. That's not homophobia, that's me trying to protect my son from making some of the same mistakes I did by running with people who will gladly help me fuck up. It's not just gays or anything like that, that's not what I am saying. I am making an overlying statement so don't try to twist it into anything else.

I think a lot of you are really unfair to people who don't agree with homosexuality. There are extremists and stereotypes on both sides either of us could cite so the actions of those people aren't worth bringing up either, their extremists lol. When it comes to a parent trying to make the right decisions for their children you have no business in their business and vice versa. If people were more concerned about raising THEIR kids, and less concerned with telling OTHERS how to raise their kids, I have a strong feeling, call it a hunch, our kids would be better off for it. I try to get along with everybody, I don't really care if you're gay or straight, black or white, Muslim or Jew. I can still be me without being you, and you can still be you without being me. People don't have to be carbon copies to be friends, but you have to be careful who your friends are and what they're about.

 

[Daniel]

In this or any other scenario I think the parent has every right to dictate who their child does and does not interact with be it someone who is gay, someone who uses drugs, skips school, runs with the wrong crowd, etc...

OK, you've compared being gay to being a drug user, a truant and an all-round bad egg. Great start for your 'non-homophobic' post.

Newsflash! There are plenty of things about that lifestyle that are not exactly the kinds of things you'd want an adolescent picking up on.

Like what exactly? Please, I really need answers to that. There is no more difference between a heterosexual person and a homosexual person than there is between two heterosexual people. I don't know what things you mean. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but are you talking about sodomy? You know, the completely natural act of sexual intercourse. If you're not, please correct me.

Since homophobe is the #1 word in your dictionaries I've got a new one for you "Hetero-Phobic". You can put that one right up there with homophobic because as homophobic as you claim others to be and for as many people as you label "homophobic" your words and actions wreak of Hetero-phobia.

I don't know what that means. I presume that that most if not all of the five other posters are heterosexual, as I am. So how can they be 'hetero-phobic' as you so claim? It just sounds like the reactionary bullshit that you hear on FOX News.

I don't have any problems with homosexuals myself. I have gay friends and have for years. I don't agree with that particular CHOICE they have made, and they don't understand my CHOICE of being straight so we're even. Otherwise we are great friends and we even joke with each other that each of us is going to turn the other somehow, it's actually pretty funny. They understand that not only did they make a CHOICE, but that with that CHOICE comes new territory, some of which may not be pleasant but that is what they CHOSE and so they like the father in the story just avoid being in the scenario where they'd have to deal with it.

You seem to be under the impression that being gay is a choice. It isn't. Ask homosexual people and the majority of them will tell you that they felt gay from an early age. Do you think that someone would choose to be gay? What with all the persecution and casual homophobia that exists in the world, you would assume that people would want to be straight, surely? Also, i'm no scientist but pop 'biology and sexual orientation' into Google. You might find something interesting.

I think a lot of you are really unfair to people who don't agree with homosexuality.

Rightly so. Homophobes are backwards, unintelligent and unaccepting imbeciles who have no place in civilised society.

I try to get along with everybody, I don't really care if you're gay or straight, black or white, Muslim or Jew.

Well clearly you do. You've just said that you don't want your son to hang around gay people. And I quote:

I'm not forcing my views on anyone my son included, he'll make his own decision I'll just try to help him make the right one.

Again, if I have taken this in the wrong way then please correct me.

The scenario is totally irrational. Parents should never restrict who there children play with. It severely restricts the child's social and intelligent development if they are not able to meet people from stratas of society different to their own. The father exhibits blatant homophobia.

 

[Razor]

Well, how is that any different than being raci--blackophobic?

I'm taking your hypothetical and running with it, if you will allow me that conceit.

A man doesn't like the black lifestyle that we often see in the inner city, but he doesn't hate black men themselves. Just the "black lifestyle." He has a son, and doesn't wish his son to be influenced by such a lifestyle. So when he goes to church, the ballpark, or the store he kindly avoids black people. When his son comes home and announces that he has a black best friend, the father tells the son he can't hang out with said friend anymore because he doesn't agree with the greater "black lifestyle."

See the problem there? For one, what the hell is a "black lifestyle?" Is it that racist stereotype that all black people are pumping iron in the ghetto while drawing 5 Welfare checks for one kid and pimping out their ride while cashing in food stamps? Secondly, how is it not hateful to completely avoid a group of people and then tell your son he can't hang out with that group?

I want the same questions asked. What the hell is a "gay lifestyle?" Is it the blatantly stereotypical gay life of wearing flimsy, see-through shirts and taking drugs so that you can carry on your debauchery throughout the weekend without sleeping? And how is it not hateful to tell your son they can't hang out with a gay friend of theirs?

Are people afraid that "gay" and "insert minority skin color" will rub off on their children? It reminds me of a discussion I had at AGS in 11th grade. We had to split up into groups and argue whether the Boy Scouts were right for denying gay men the ability to lead boy scout troops. The opposing side to mine, who were arguing with the Boy Scouts, actually said "I don't want my kid being molested by a gay man." As if it were fine if his daughter were molested, because at least then it was by a straight man. I'll also mention the fact that pedophiles are most often heterosexual, so that dude's argument doesn't even make sense.

Please. It's biased against a natural state in the world. It's wrong. Avoid drug-dealers and users all you want. Coke heads are totally dangerous. Gays? It's as natural as the animal kingdom.

 

[AltMan!!!]

Lo and behold, a shining example of the very things I pointed out in my first post as it pertains to how folks on here deal with those who don't agree with Homosexuality. Let's take a look, this ought to be cute.

OK, you've compared being gay to being a drug user, a truant and an all-round bad egg. Great start for your 'non-homophobic' post.

No Sir, that is the way you are using what I am saying to attack me personally because you don't agree with me. If that's not obvious to anyone else than I call for the blinders to come off please, and to kindly turn your heads in this direction and see this example of exactly what I was talking about.

The topic referred to a kid hanging out with another kid that happened to be gay. So, when I went through what I was saying the first thing I mentioned was in reference to the topic. I wasn't comparing anyone, that is what you've called it because I used them in the same sentence. FAILED ATTEMPT AT JUSTIFYING YOUR HATE.

Like what exactly? Please, I really need answers to that. There is no more difference between a heterosexual person and a homosexual person than there is between two heterosexual people. I don't know what things you mean. Forgive me if i'm wrong, but are you talking about sodomy? You know, the completely natural act of sexual intercourse. If you're not, please correct me.

Well your so informed and I'm apparently so fucked up and stupid why don't you tell me? Promiscuity, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and infidelity runs rampant amongst the homosexual community. Blame it on straight people and homophobics all you want, that fact remains and is inherent of that lifestyle. And, BTW Sodomy is about as un-natural as you could get. Intercourse between a man and a woman is an entirely different thing. The Anus is not meant to be penetrated, that's exit only sir. Ask a physician. AGAIN YOU FAIL.

I don't know what that means. I presume that that most if not all of the five other posters are heterosexual, as I am. So how can they be 'hetero-phobic' as you so claim? It just sounds like the reactionary bullshit that you hear on FOX News.

Oh again, here you have some axe to grind with FOX News, their the enemy somehow, and so you slap me with that, real logical. Get off my ass, quit trying to paint me as your "super conservative, christian, Fox News watching, bible toting, cross burning, racist, sexist, homophobic, stereotype super villain enemy" you know exactly what I am talking about. Here's something more tangible for you to understand exactly how and why most of what I have read so far pretty much just falls under Heterophobic.


Heterophobia Definition from Encyclopedia Dictionaries & Glossaries

Heterophobia is a term used to describe prejudice or discrimination against heterosexuals, usually in the context of the heterophobic person being homosexual or bisexual. It does not have much currency outside the field of sexology, and has limited use even within that field. It also refers to the fear of sexual behavior or relations with a member of the opposite sex, or to a general hostility, or suspicion, towards sexual interaction between men and women. It is used in this latter sense by Daphne Patai in her book, Heterophobia: Sexual Harassment and the Future of Feminism.

You seem to be under the impression that being gay is a choice. It isn't. Ask homosexual people and the majority of them will tell you that they felt gay from an early age. Do you think that someone would choose to be gay? What with all the persecution and casual homophobia that exists in the world, you would assume that people would want to be straight, surely? Also, i'm no scientist but pop 'biology and sexual orientation' into Google. You might find something interesting.

Well than the majority are lying to you to justify the choice even they have quarrels with inside. I don't know where you got your biased research from but from what I have read most homosexuals openly admit that it is a choice, and all the gay people I have ever known have as well. You know what? I did go google "biology and sexual orientation" and read dozens of studies and information. All that can be concluded from all of it is that there are a number factors and influences that ultimately lead to that...now wait for it....CHOICE. Genealogy does play some role but is not solely responsible for the ultimate CHOICE. But lets take a look at your response, what are you doing here? Exactly what I was saying, Martyring the gay community to push your pro-gay agenda. I don't have an anti-gay agenda if you read anything I said unbiasedly. My message was far from that. AGAIN YOU FAIL.

Rightly so. Homophobes are backwards, unintelligent and unaccepting imbeciles who have no place in civilised society.

And you are calling me and others who simply don't subscribe to homosexuality unreasonable? Right, we're being unreasonable by having a different opinion, while you are labeling people as Homophobics, calling them backwards-unintelligent-unaccepting- imbeciles who have no place in society. You're making more and more sense here. YOU FAIL AGAIN.

Well clearly you do. You've just said that you don't want your son to hang around gay people. And I quote:

I'm not forcing my views on anyone my son included, he'll make his own decision I'll just try to help him make the right one.

No, you take it as me having a problem with gay people because you are indeed Heterophobic(god I'm going to have fun with that now). You didn't care to quote the large section where I went through telling you I have had and still do have plenty of gay friends, I've even went to gay bars with them on a number of occasions(great drinks, not as expensive as other bars in town, entertaining to say the least), and we even joke about turning each other. I am about as homophobic as Freddy Mercury. But, that does no good to your argument does it, so why bother mentioning that.

I didn't say I wouldn't allow my son to be friends with a homosexual either, I actually said I didn't agree with the parent in the hypothetical situation but you didn't care to mention that either did you? How convenient. AGAIN YOU FAIL.

As I said, I'm not going to force my views on my son, if he ends up having friends that are gay, that's fine. I just hope he doesn't get involved in some of the pitfalls that lifestyle provides by being around it. Just the same as I wouldn't want him being around anyone who might be a bad influence gay or straight. As a parent I understand another parent being paranoid about it and maybe going to the extreme. Didn't say I agree, but I understand. It's just the same as my gay friends and I not exactly agreeing with each other being gay or straight, but we understand it's just another choice, one that happens to greatly effect the way you live, who you surround yourself with, and what you endure in society. We remain friends nonetheless and it isn't an issue. People like you seem to like making it an issue because that enables you to use one more thing against the people you hate. Well sir, I don't hate anybody. Sometimes I frown on peoples actions that end up hurting them, but I don't hate anybody, homosexuals included. AGAIN YOU FAIL.

Again, if I have taken this in the wrong way then please correct me.

The scenario is totally irrational. Parents should never restrict who there children play with. It severely restricts the child's social and intelligent development if they are not able to meet people from stratas of society different to their own. The father exhibits blatant homophobia.

You have been corrected. You are totally irrational, and a parent has every right to restrict who their children do and don't interact with. The child's development has a lot to do with who they interact with which is something you seemingly fair to acknowledge or understand, that is why you have to be cautious of who you let your child develop into. Do I think letting your kid be around gay people is going to really harm them? Probably not, but if someone else does, it's their fucking right to say "no you can't do that" Let a kid explore all that if they want when they get older and are more capable of making smarter decisions and have matured. Otherwise, you could be allowing that child to walk down a crooked path that leads to nowhere and that is already a big enough problem.

 

[Jonnie Walker]

I have nothing against gay people at all, but I don't want my son turning out gay for a few reasons.
1. I want grandchildren.
2. There are alot of bigoted and homophobic people out there who could attack him for it.
3. I would be the laughing stock of my neighborhood.
4. If I wanted a feminine child, I would make a daughter.
5. My family would act a certain way around him.
If someone wants to be gay, they can go ahead, they're people too, but I don't want my son to be gay for those reasons. I would still love my son, but it would change alot of things that I had hoped for.

 

[Vanderhook]

I believe it to be wrong to avoid homosexuals simply because they are homosexuals.

I think a lot of people who are homophobes or "disagree with homosexuality" (Let's be real here, they are the same thing and if you think otherwise you are kidding yourself or splitting hairs over negligible differences) is that they think that homosexuality inherently brings many other negative traits. That is ridiculous.

This Dudebuster guy has no idea what he's talking about. "Heterophobia"? Are you kidding me?There is no "gay agenda" that is trying to wipe out heterosexuality and turn everyone gay. The "gay agenda" is merely to spread information about themselves, debunk misconceptions about their kind and be given the same amount of respect as others. This is the problem with you Dudebuster, you have this "US VERSUS THEM" mentality. If someone disagrees with homophobia then they are a heterophobe? No one here has even remotely suggested that heterosexuality is wrong, we are simply speaking out against irrational behavior towards homosexuals.

Also, homoseuxality is not a choice. You claim that the "majority of studies" claim otherwise. I guarantee you for every *scientific* study (And I stress, scientific, not some pseudo-science crap or an editorial or some guys personal experience on a blog) that suggests homosexuality is a choice, I will find you at the very least three studies that show otherwise, and they will probably be from a much more reputable source.

I really hope you can look at homosexuals objectively and see the error of your ways.

 

[Razor]

I have nothing against gay people at all, but I don't want my son turning out gay for a few reasons.

Alright. Let's see them.

1. I want grandchildren.

He can always adopt you know. As long he isn't in Arkansas or any other backwards state that seems to think that gay will rub off on children. I was flabbergasted when that law passed in my state. Then I realized that I lived in Arkansas, and anywhere not named Fayetteville or Little Rock was staunchly social conservative.

2. There are alot of bigoted and homophobic people out there who could attack him for it.

True. But that's not a reason to completely refuse a way of life. Be who you are. Take the hits with the hugs, if you'd allow that saying. I'm not even sure I do.

3. I would be the laughing stock of my neighborhood

Refusing your child his identity just because you'd be laughed at is plain horrid. I thought people got more responsible and adult when they had children? Are you still in high school, or what?

4. If I wanted a feminine child, I would make a daughter.

How inconsiderate. There are plenty of manly gays, just ask the ones in jail. Or the men who FUCK OTHER GUYS and lead completely masculine lives as firemen, policemen, soldiers, and football players. I know, completely strange. A manly profession possessing such girly men. Oh, wait.

5. My family would act a certain way around him.

I have a few solutions for that:

1) Get a new family. Or tell them that that gay kid is your son, and you love him. If they were really his relatives, they would do the same.

2) Don't visit them. If they would mock or act differently around your son, then they don't deserve your visits. Simple as that. You and your family are a package deal. Or at least I'd imagine they are.

If someone wants to be gay, they can go ahead, they're people too, but I don't want my son to be gay for those reasons. I would still love my son, but it would change alot of things that I had hoped for.

I mean, it's one thing to be uncomfortable around gay people, so you'd prefer your son not be gay. Sadly, no one really has any control over that. Just ask the gay people who are off in some camp praying to God to take the gay away. I understand you'll still love your son, but come on. Isn't love about taking those petty insults from your neighbors because your son found the love of his life in another man?