90's Region - Pantera vs Republica

[IrishCanadian25]

1st Round 90's Region Match

Pantera vs Republica

Please take into account the entire body of work of the artists, their mark on the music industry and/or society as a whole, their influence on other artists, lyrics, music, etc. If you have not already done so, please review the rules of the tournament and the Wrestlezone Forums. Have fun!​

 

[X]

Pantera is another band thats very "meh" for me. I understand why they're so popular, and I do respect the fact that they're one of the greatest metal bands of all time. I even used to like them alot as a kid.

But I just don't like them anymore. Mostly because of Phil Anselmo, who is a raging moron in the highest degree. Scum like him should be shipped off to a third world country, and see how much fun life is without the safe protection of white skin and vast wealth. I'd like to see him give one of his "Go White People!" speeches in fucking Haiti. He'd be chopped to pieces by machetes in fucking minutes.

And this I know I'm going to be yelled at for, but Dimebag Darrell is overrated as FUCK. The guy died, and suddenly he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time? ROFLMAO. He doesn't even crack the top 20. Does that mean he's a bad guitar player? No, not at all, he came up with some great metal riffs. But he's not even close to being on the level of the all time GREATS like Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Berry, Vai, EVH, or Santana. Not even close.

That being said, Republica sucks. Their like a 2nd rate version of Garbage (who is a second rate version of Elastica). No way am I voting for Republica.

Even though I'm not a big Pantera fan, they're easily better then freakin' Republica. Their covers of "Cat Scratch Fever" and "Planet Caravan" alone let them win this round.

 

[Capt. Charisma]

True that they both suck but Republica were very pop/rock and the song they used to do that was on the football highlights on sky I always thought was pretty decent. Pantera are awful simply awful, worse than Republica I'm not a big fan of metal anyway, but hearing their shite made my ears bleed, I had no desire to listen to any form of metal music ever again after listing to reinventing the steel what a load of crap. I'd rather listen to the insane clown posse than that pile of wank again.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Pantera hands down. I'm not going to say that Republica are shit because i don't honestly think i've ever heard of them but if they are a second rate Garbage they must suck because i think Garbage suck. Phil Anselmo is a twat yes, but Dimebag Darrell was an amazing guitarist (and was recognised as such well before his death), just as Vinnie Paul and Rex are great at what they do.

 

[justinsayne]

Pantera is another band thats very "meh" for me. I understand why they're so popular, and I do respect the fact that they're one of the greatest metal bands of all time. I even used to like them alot as a kid.

But I just don't like them anymore. Mostly because of Phil Anselmo, who is a raging moron in the highest degree. Scum like him should be shipped off to a third world country, and see how much fun life is without the safe protection of white skin and vast wealth. I'd like to see him give one of his "Go White People!" speeches in fucking Haiti. He'd be chopped to pieces by machetes in fucking minutes.

I'll agree with you about Anselmo, being an idiot, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the guy was the fucking shit as the lead singer for Pantera, and is great in Down as well

And this I know I'm going to be yelled at for, but Dimebag Darrell is overrated as FUCK. The guy died, and suddenly he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time? ROFLMAO. He doesn't even crack the top 20. Does that mean he's a bad guitar player? No, not at all, he came up with some great metal riffs. But he's not even close to being on the level of the all time GREATS like Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Berry, Vai, EVH, or Santana. Not even close.

Dimebag is a fucking god, anybody that has ever eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever heard him rif knows this, just cause he didn't play the most complicated guitar solos on any of Pantera's albums doesn't make him overrated, as I said before (in the Green Day vs. whoever thread) simplicity sells. I mean you don't hear your precious Beatles playing the most complicated shit ever, do you?, and I could even drop one of your favorite words, and point out the fact that Dime was influential, the guy inspired a whole new generation to pick up a guitar, am I saying he's the greatest guitarist ever no, but he's up there and is one of the greatest, at least as far as metal goes anyway, now I'm sure you'll come back an yell at me, and try to tear my post apart

 

[HellBoundPower]

I'm probably going to get pretty personal with this one, because Pantera is my favorite band. They pioneered Groove Metal, and showed everyone that you don't need radioplay and MTV to become a successful band. They has albums debut at number one, without the help of radio and music video play. They were fronted by one of the greatest metal vocalists of all time, as well as one of the greatests metal guitarists in history. Pantera easily takes with without question.

But I just don't like them anymore. Mostly because of Phil Anselmo, who is a raging moron in the highest degree. Scum like him should be shipped off to a third world country, and see how much fun life is without the safe protection of white skin and vast wealth. I'd like to see him give one of his "Go White People!" speeches in fucking Haiti. He'd be chopped to pieces by machetes in fucking minutes.

Phil has changed a lot in the last few years. The way I see it, Phil isn't a racist. His few speeches about the issue were mainly pointing out the hypocrisies of racism. The double standards that are never talked about. Like white people not being able to be proud of who they are without being called a racist. Which is very true. You say you have white pride, and you're a racist, but any other race can say it and not be racist. And I believe that's all he was pointing out. I never once heard him use racist slurs, and show distaste towards another race.

Also, a lot of his problems came from heroin use, which he was using as a pain killer because of a bad back, which he finally got surgery for in 2006. Since then, he's off all drugs, in shape, and touring with Down.

And this I know I'm going to be yelled at for, but Dimebag Darrell is overrated as FUCK. The guy died, and suddenly he's one of the greatest guitar players of all time? ROFLMAO. He doesn't even crack the top 20. Does that mean he's a bad guitar player? No, not at all, he came up with some great metal riffs. But he's not even close to being on the level of the all time GREATS like Hendrix, Clapton, Page, Berry, Vai, EVH, or Santana. Not even close.

I kind of agree with you here. It seems that since he died, everyone is a Dimebag fan. Everyone kisses his ass. I loved the guy, and as one of the guys that loved him before his death, I definitely think that he's in the top 15 of all time. But to say he's the best, and he's god is an overstatement to be sure. I will forever believe that the guy is huge in the world of metal music, but I'm not going to pretend he's number one of all time.

Dimebag is a fucking god, anybody that has ever eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever heard him rif knows this, just cause he didn't play the most complicated guitar solos on any of Pantera's albums doesn't make him overrated, as I said before (in the Green Day vs. whoever thread) simplicity sells. I mean you don't hear your precious Beatles playing the most complicated shit ever, do you?, and I could even drop one of your favorite words, and point out the fact that Dime was influential, the guy inspired a whole new generation to pick up a guitar, am I saying he's the greatest guitarist ever no, but he's up there and is one of the greatest, at least as far as metal goes anyway, now I'm sure you'll come back an yell at me, and try to tear my post apart

I agree with you too. Not with the whole Dimebag is God part, but I do agree that he was very influential. Most of the current metal bands site Dime as an influence. Granted most of them aren't that good, but they still have good intentions. I think Dime is one of best guitarists of the '90s. I'm just sick of everyone jumping on the bandwagon because he's dead.

With all that said, Pantera ftw, and R.I.P. "Dimebag" Darrell Lance Abbott.

 

[justinsayne]

I agree with you too. Not with the whole Dimebag is God part

I didn't say he was god, I said he was one of the greatest of all time, especially when it comes to metal

, but I do agree that he was very influential. Most of the current metal bands site Dime as an influence. Granted most of them aren't that good, but they still have good intentions. I think Dime is one of best guitarists of the '90s. I'm just sick of everyone jumping on the bandwagon because he's dead.

With all that said, Pantera ftw, and R.I.P. "Dimebag" Darrell Lance Abbott.

A. For the record, I was a fan and thought he was great before he died

B. that's just the nature of these things, everybody is gonna jump on the bandwagon when someone dies, they did it with Cobain too, and in wrestling you can see it with Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero

 

[MattMoses]

Pantera with ease. Putting their Glam Metal phase aside (Power Metal was a decent album though), they became one of the biggest Metal bands within the release of an album. Though they really went downhill after "Cowboys" and "Vulgar", they managed to write some of the catchiest Metal songs ever ("Walk" is incredibly overrated and doesn't deserve so much praise, especially in comparison to some of their lesser known songs), and became prime influence to many bands who followed the Groove Metal route.

Republica are terrible. No aspect of this band is remotely appealing at all.

 

[HellBoundPower]

Dimebag is a fucking god, anybody that has ever eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever heard him rif knows this, just cause he didn't play the most complicated guitar solos on any of Pantera's albums doesn't make him overrated, as I said before (in the Green Day vs. whoever thread) simplicity sells. I mean you don't hear your precious Beatles playing the most complicated shit ever, do you?, and I could even drop one of your favorite words, and point out the fact that Dime was influential, the guy inspired a whole new generation to pick up a guitar, am I saying he's the greatest guitarist ever no, but he's up there and is one of the greatest, at least as far as metal goes anyway, now I'm sure you'll come back an yell at me, and try to tear my post apart

Yes you did. lol

A. For the record, I was a fan and thought he was great before he died

Never said you were. I've just noticed in general that everyone and there mom is listening to Pantera and repping Dime, when they never even knew who he was before. I'm not a fan of all the bandwagon jumpers, but I guess it's just a natural part of life.

B. that's just the nature of these things, everybody is gonna jump on the bandwagon when someone dies, they did it with Cobain too, and in wrestling you can see it with Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero

They sure did, and I'm damn sick of it too. I think Nirvana is probably the MOST OVERRATED band of all time! Their stuff is okay, but not good enough to receive all the recognition they do. I think Pantera and Metallica killed hair metal more than Nirvana did.

 

[justinsayne]

Yes you did. lolNever said you were. I've just noticed in general that everyone and there mom is listening to Pantera and repping Dime, when they never even knew who he was before. I'm not a fan of all the bandwagon jumpers, but I guess it's just a natural part of life.They sure did, and I'm damn sick of it too.

Well fuck, your right guess I did

I think Nirvana is probably the MOST OVERRATED band of all time! Their stuff is okay, but not good enough to receive all the recognition they do. I think Pantera and Metallica killed hair metal more than Nirvana did.

Finally some one else who sees the fucking truth, Nirvana is the most overrated band of at least the '90's if not of all time, you are so getting rep for that, now watch X is gonna come in here and probably flip out over that statement, as well as the rest of the army of Cobainiacs

 

[RVDgurl]

Pan-fucking-tera. Vulgar Display of Power was the very first CD I ever got (yeah, I still have all my cassette tapes from back in the day). I was 12 and it changed my life. In my humble opinion, only Metallica is superior to the mighty Pantera when it comes to straight up metal.


And for the record, Phil Anselmo is a god. He rocks. Period.

 

[X]

I think Nirvana is probably the MOST OVERRATED band of all time! Their stuff is okay, but not good enough to receive all the recognition they do. I think Pantera and Metallica killed hair metal more than Nirvana did.

Dude, while I respect that you don't like Nirvana, you could not be more wrong about Pantera & Metallica killing hair metal.

Hair Metal was not only alive and well in 1990, but was still dominating all music charts with only rap starting to creep up on it slowly. Pantera & Metallica had been out for a while before that, and hair metal thrived alongside, if not more so, then thrash or groove metal did. But the moment Nevermind came out, hair metal was dead. Hasn't been a hair metal album in the top ten since.

I'll agree with you about Anselmo, being an idiot, but that doesn't take away from the fact that the guy was the fucking shit as the lead singer for Pantera, and is great in Down as well

He's a great captivating frontman thats for sure, I won't deny he's got charisma. I personally find his voice to be borderline untolerable at times, but some people like to listen to Cannibal Corpse's vocals as well. Just different tastes.

Dimebag is a fucking god, anybody that has ever eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeever heard him rif knows this, just cause he didn't play the most complicated guitar solos on any of Pantera's albums doesn't make him overrated, as I said before (in the Green Day vs. whoever thread) simplicity sells. I mean you don't hear your precious Beatles playing the most complicated shit ever, do you?, and I could even drop one of your favorite words, and point out the fact that Dime was influential, the guy inspired a whole new generation to pick up a guitar, am I saying he's the greatest guitarist ever no, but he's up there and is one of the greatest, at least as far as metal goes anyway, now I'm sure you'll come back an yell at me, and try to tear my post apart

I wasn't at all saying he was overrated because he wasn't a technical master of the guitar, not at all. Your ability to do a 20 minute solo is pretty worthless if you can't write a decent song IMO. Yngvie Malmsteen (I think that's the right spelling) is a technical guitar God, but I can't stand a lick of his terrible music. Your ability to go up and down on the guitar doesn't equal good music to me. So I wasn't criticicizing Dimebag because he wasn't some big solo artist.

I just don't find his riffs or playing to be nearly as good as it's hyped to be. Is he a talented guitarist? OF course!. The guy would smoke half of my city with his skill. But his riffs weren't nearly as original or as good as alot of poeple make them out to be IMO, and alot of his style isn't nearly as innovative as it's claimed to be.

I totally understand that he's been a big influence on metal, but to me there hasn't been much if any good metal released in the last 10 years or so. If the metal that spawned from Dimebag's influence was nu-metal garbage like Korn, then I'd say that influence doesn't amount to much if the music you influence is utter crap.

And as for the Nirvana comments, couldn't bother me less. Nirvana were a musical revolution. More then could ever be said about Pantera.

 

[HellBoundPower]

Dude, while I respect that you don't like Nirvana, you could not be more wrong about Pantera & Metallica killing hair metal.

Hair Metal was not only alive and well in 1990, but was still dominating all music charts with only rap starting to creep up on it slowly. Pantera & Metallica had been out for a while before that, and hair metal thrived alongside, if not more so, then thrash or groove metal did. But the moment Nevermind came out, hair metal was dead. Hasn't been a hair metal album in the top ten since.

It's not that I don't like Nirvana, I just think they're overrated. They have some decent stuff, but not enough to make them the legends that they are. I just think they're as popular as they are because Kurt Cobain decided to off himself.

As for my other comment, you have to look at the bigger picture. Both The Black Album and Vulgar Display of Power came out around the same time as Nevermind, and both of them were hard hitting, badass albums that brought metal to a newer, heavier sound. While Nevermind pioneered the Seattle Grunge movement, Groove Metal was started up with Vulgar. All of them could collectively be considered the death of Glam Metal, but it's mostly up to you to decide which you believe it was. I personally think that Vulgar had more to do with it than Nevermind, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[X]

It's not that I don't like Nirvana, I just think they're overrated. They have some decent stuff, but not enough to make them the legends that they are. I just think they're as popular as they are because Kurt Cobain decided to off himself.

That's ridiculious, because Kurt Cobain was more popular ALIVE then he was DEAD. Nirvana was the biggest band on the face of the planet from 1992-94. Whereas with Dimebag Darrell, he is clearly more popular now that he's dead.

As for my other comment, you have to look at the bigger picture. Both The Black Album and Vulgar Display of Power came out around the same time as Nevermind, and both of them were hard hitting, badass albums that brought metal to a newer, heavier sound. While Nevermind pioneered the Seattle Grunge movement, Groove Metal was started up with Vulgar. All of them could collectively be considered the death of Glam Metal, but it's mostly up to you to decide which you believe it was. I personally think that Vulgar had more to do with it than Nevermind, but that's just my personal opinion.

First off, Vulgar was not the beginning of Groove Metal. There was a band called White Zombie that had been playing Groove Metal for years before that album came out. Pantera did NOT start groove metal.

Secondly, both Vulgar & The Black Album were not nearly as revolutionary as Nevermind was. Vulgar & the Black Album may have revolutionized metal, but Nevermind revolutionized ALL rock and roll. They had the same effect that bands like the Beatles, Led Zeppelin, and the Sex Pistols had, in that they all changed the genre of rock and roll noticeably and forever when they came out. Metallica & Pantera can't lay claim to that kind of throne

 

[MattMoses]

There was a band called White Zombie that had been playing Groove Metal for years before that album came out. Pantera did NOT start groove metal.

Are you sure? As a huge White Zombie fan, I don't recall them playing a Groove Metal oriented sound until La Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1, which was released in 1992.

Hell, even the first EP they released back in '85 was so far away from the Groove Metal genre it's laughable.

If anybody started off the Groove Metal genre, it would have been Exhorder. It wasn't until after the release of Slaughter in the Vatican that bands like White Zombie and Pantera strayed away from their roots and played a Groovier Metal sound.

 

[X]

Are you sure? As a huge White Zombie fan, I don't recall them playing a Groove Metal oriented sound until La Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1, which was released in 1992.

Hell, even the first EP they released back in '85 was so far away from the Groove Metal genre it's laughable.

If anybody started off the Groove Metal genre, it would have been Exhorder. It wasn't until after the release of Slaughter in the Vatican that bands like White Zombie and Pantera strayed away from their roots and played a Groovier Metal sound.

Yeah, White Zombie's early stuff was mostly pre-Shoegazer noise rock, but you can't tell me you don't hear precursors to groove metal on Soulcrusher, that album to me has always been the starting point for groove metal. Granted I'm not a huge metalhead, so I've never even heard of this band Exhorder, so you're probably right that they did start it first, but I find White Zombie to be the first real important groove metal band. No offense to Pantera.

 

[MattMoses]

Yeah, White Zombie's early stuff was mostly pre-Shoegazer noise rock, but you can't tell me you don't hear precursors to groove metal on Soulcrusher, that album to me has always been the starting point for groove metal.

No, I really don't hear it. When I listen to that album, I hear an album which is badly produced, annoying b-movie audio samples, poorly constructed songs derived from an acid rock sound with atrocious vocals. There is absolutely nothing "groovy" about this album, nor is it even a Metal album.

I really don't see where you're coming from here.

Granted I'm not a huge metalhead, so I've never even heard of this band Exhorder, so you're probably right that they did start it first, but I find White Zombie to be the first real important groove metal band. No offense to Pantera.

Well, they're widely regarded as the band who started off the genre and were very influential. Lots of bands, Pantera included, have cited them as an influence. Though Pantera, White Zombie and (arguably) Machine Head are the bands who pioneered it.

 

[X]

No, I really don't hear it. When I listen to that album, I hear an album which is badly produced, annoying b-movie audio samples, poorly constructed songs derived from an acid rock sound with atrocious vocals. There is absolutely nothing "groovy" about this album, nor is it even a Metal album.

I really don't see where you're coming from here.

Maybe I'm the only one who hears it then Matt, especially on Ratmouth. Strip away the noise and you can hear the start of groove metal in that song. But whatever, if you don't hear it, then theres nothing I can do to change your mind.

Well, they're widely regarded as the band who started off the genre and were very influential. Lots of bands, Pantera included, have cited them as an influence. Though Pantera, White Zombie and (arguably) Machine Head are the bands who pioneered it.

I'll have to check them out then, considering I do like White Zombie and some Machine Head, though not Pantera.

 

[MattMoses]

Maybe I'm the only one who hears it then Matt, especially on Ratmouth. Strip away the noise and you can hear the start of groove metal in that song. But whatever, if you don't hear it, then theres nothing I can do to change your mind.

Fair enough. I can't for the life in me hear it at all, and after just giving it another listen, it just sounds like the mediocrity of poorly constructed noise rock they were spewing out at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOz3sV_em8Q

I still don't know how to embed YouTube videos here, so there's a link to the song for anybody who wants to listen to it and chime in with their thoughts.

I'll have to check them out then, considering I do like White Zombie and some Machine Head, though not Pantera.

There's a good chance you'd like them. I recall you saying you enjoyed Slayer in another thread, and I'd say they have the groove of "Cowboys" era Pantera and the speed and heaviness of 80's Slayer.

 

[HellBoundPower]

First off, Vulgar was not the beginning of Groove Metal. There was a band called White Zombie that had been playing Groove Metal for years before that album came out. Pantera did NOT start groove metal.

I guess I made a mistake when I typed that up. What I meant was the Cowboys From Hell started up the Groove Metal sensation, and Vulgar brought it to the public eye, since Vulgar was the more popular of the two albums.

Are you sure? As a huge White Zombie fan, I don't recall them playing a Groove Metal oriented sound until La Sexorcisto: Devil Music, Vol. 1, which was released in 1992.

I was about to say this exact thing. They didn't start with their Groove Metal sound until 1992, AFTER Cowboys was released.

If anybody started off the Groove Metal genre, it would have been Exhorder. It wasn't until after the release of Slaughter in the Vatican that bands like White Zombie and Pantera strayed away from their roots and played a Groovier Metal sound.

While Exhorder could be credited for starting Groove Metal, most people consider Pantera the originator. Probably because Exhorder was never really that successful, and because Pantera's sound was much better than theirs.

Well, they're widely regarded as the band who started off the genre and were very influential. Lots of bands, Pantera included, have cited them as an influence. Though Pantera, White Zombie and (arguably) Machine Head are the bands who pioneered it.

That simply isn't true. Infact there has always been friction between Pantera and Exhorder as to who started it. Exhorder has laid claim to it, and claimed that Pantera stole the sound, while Pantera maintains that they just started it at the same time by coincidence. I don't care either way, but Pantera has never given Exhorder credit for starting Groove Metal.