8 Pokemon RBY -v- 73 Shadow of the Colossus
- Thread starter Lee
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There are certainly similarities here. In one game the object is to travel and collect monsters, in the other you're ordered to kill them. The reality though is that while Pokemon was a fun, addictive little game to play, there's no depth to it besides collecting. The same cannot be said of Shadow of the Collossus which, although almost entirely silent, manages to evoke remorse in the player for what you're doing. How many games can actually say that?
Pokemon for the kids
Shadow of the Collossus for the adults
Pokemon for the kids
Shadow of the Collossus for the adults
The idea that Pokemon is lacking in depth in comparison to SoC is laughable.
Pokemon is the deeper, more original and more impactful title; and it isn't even close.
Pokemon has spawned over a decades worth of competitive multiplayer in a manner that can only be matched by titles like Starcraft. Twenty minutes of competitive play will confirm to anybody that it is not a title exclusively aimed at exclusively and children.
Sure the single player campaign is indeed very child friendly; but I can't see why this is a bad thing? Children deserve video games just as much as we jaded twenty-somethings do, and when a game for children managed to captivate its target demographic as successfully as Pokemon did, whilst being as educational as Pokemon is, I am going to give it a whole world of credit. The mechanical depth behind the Pokemon games is superior to pretty much every other RPG created, there is a strong focus on mathematics, problem solving, strategy and tactics. A small child can play Pokemon, but it takes a mature adult with months of study to play Pokemon well. With the possibly exception of chess, I can't think of another title that manages to appeal across the age spectrum so well.
SoC took a preexisting genre and slipped an artistic framework over the top of it. Shadows is eight really, really good boss fights, but nothing particularly new or revolutionary. Pokemon in contrast carved out a completely new genre for itself, in an era when video games where becoming more and more homogeneous. Pokemon was stunningly original, completely unlike any RPG that had achieved popularity beforehand, and there is a reason it took the world by storm.
Shadows of the Collossus is a game worshiped by gamers who want to consider games as art, but the problem is that SoC only holds up as a work or art when compared exclusively to other video games, and even that, doesn't hold up terribly well. Judged as an entity unto itself the game is not particularly profound. Hell; when you compare it to titles such as Deus Ex Machina or Worlds Apart it's positively shallow in its concepts. The execution is fantastic, but so is that of Gears of War, and I'm not giving credit to that. I'll grant that SoC holds more artistic merit than Pokemon, but then Pokemon is not trying be art.
There's the key difference. Shadows of the Collossus is trying to be a work of art, and isn't particularly successful as one.
Pokemon is just trying to be a accessible and phenomenally deep RPG, and does it better than any game ever produced.
Pokemon is one of those rare games that defined a generation. When a franchise achieves immortality then it is proof that it is doing something right; and when a franchise achieves immortality whilst being as original, challenging and complex as Pokemon is, then it deserves to be held as one of the most impressive feats of production in gaming history.
Also; Pokemon had Charizard. You seriously going to fuck with Charizard?
Pokemon is the deeper, more original and more impactful title; and it isn't even close.
Pokemon has spawned over a decades worth of competitive multiplayer in a manner that can only be matched by titles like Starcraft. Twenty minutes of competitive play will confirm to anybody that it is not a title exclusively aimed at exclusively and children.
Sure the single player campaign is indeed very child friendly; but I can't see why this is a bad thing? Children deserve video games just as much as we jaded twenty-somethings do, and when a game for children managed to captivate its target demographic as successfully as Pokemon did, whilst being as educational as Pokemon is, I am going to give it a whole world of credit. The mechanical depth behind the Pokemon games is superior to pretty much every other RPG created, there is a strong focus on mathematics, problem solving, strategy and tactics. A small child can play Pokemon, but it takes a mature adult with months of study to play Pokemon well. With the possibly exception of chess, I can't think of another title that manages to appeal across the age spectrum so well.
SoC took a preexisting genre and slipped an artistic framework over the top of it. Shadows is eight really, really good boss fights, but nothing particularly new or revolutionary. Pokemon in contrast carved out a completely new genre for itself, in an era when video games where becoming more and more homogeneous. Pokemon was stunningly original, completely unlike any RPG that had achieved popularity beforehand, and there is a reason it took the world by storm.
Shadows of the Collossus is a game worshiped by gamers who want to consider games as art, but the problem is that SoC only holds up as a work or art when compared exclusively to other video games, and even that, doesn't hold up terribly well. Judged as an entity unto itself the game is not particularly profound. Hell; when you compare it to titles such as Deus Ex Machina or Worlds Apart it's positively shallow in its concepts. The execution is fantastic, but so is that of Gears of War, and I'm not giving credit to that. I'll grant that SoC holds more artistic merit than Pokemon, but then Pokemon is not trying be art.
There's the key difference. Shadows of the Collossus is trying to be a work of art, and isn't particularly successful as one.
Pokemon is just trying to be a accessible and phenomenally deep RPG, and does it better than any game ever produced.
Pokemon is one of those rare games that defined a generation. When a franchise achieves immortality then it is proof that it is doing something right; and when a franchise achieves immortality whilst being as original, challenging and complex as Pokemon is, then it deserves to be held as one of the most impressive feats of production in gaming history.
Also; Pokemon had Charizard. You seriously going to fuck with Charizard?
Serious Mozzarella
Special Victims Unit
I voted Shadow here because seriously, it deserves to lose in a better fashion than 15/3. Like, I know in the back of my head that it really shouldn't go over the icon here, but it should really put up a bit of a fight.
Like, if I were booking a wrestling match, let's have Shadow kick out of a few of Pokemon's finishers or something.
Like, if I were booking a wrestling match, let's have Shadow kick out of a few of Pokemon's finishers or something.
Sean Valjean
Lets Bitch About This Thing We Love
I gotta go with Pokemon. I love SoC to death, but not only was Pokemon a gaming and cultural phenomenon, it was, most importantly, just a great game. Under the cute monsters and quirky characters lies a solid RPG that was simple to play but deceptively complex. However, because I love SoC and want to see it get a fair chance, I feel a need to clear up some misguided and flat out inaccurate views on the game:
And Pokemon took the RPG and added a plethora of monsters to catch. Your point?
16, but who's counting? And at the time, that WAS something different. No other game before that had boss battles quite like it. I challenge you to find a game before it that did what SoC did in terms of gameplay.
What new genre? Pokemon is an RPG, that's hardly anything new. All it did was put its own unique and addictive spin on a pre-existing genre.
What? I don't even know what you're trying to say there. So the game is ONLY artistic when compared to other games? That makes no sense. That like saying the Mona Lisa is only artistic when compared to other paintings. Why isn't the game artistic on it's own merits? And how does the artistry of SoC not hold up? Considering that it's storytelling and overall style is still praised to this day I don't see how it's aging so badly. The game is profound because it was different. There wasn't and still is nothing quite like that game.
And Pokemon took the RPG and added a plethora of monsters to catch. Your point?
16, but who's counting? And at the time, that WAS something different. No other game before that had boss battles quite like it. I challenge you to find a game before it that did what SoC did in terms of gameplay.
What new genre? Pokemon is an RPG, that's hardly anything new. All it did was put its own unique and addictive spin on a pre-existing genre.
What? I don't even know what you're trying to say there. So the game is ONLY artistic when compared to other games? That makes no sense. That like saying the Mona Lisa is only artistic when compared to other paintings. Why isn't the game artistic on it's own merits? And how does the artistry of SoC not hold up? Considering that it's storytelling and overall style is still praised to this day I don't see how it's aging so badly. The game is profound because it was different. There wasn't and still is nothing quite like that game.
Bugs Bunny is for a kids and Saw is for adults. We both know which is better. What's your point?
Anyway, for sheer influence alone, Pokemon should win this. I truly despise people who go "Pokeman iz teh GAY and 4 babeez!" when really, they played in themselves as a kid. Come on, be honest, how many people played and loved Pokemon as a kid? Pretty much every who has voted in this tournament, anyway.
Shadow is good enough. I personally prefer Ico a million times over, but Shadow is fine. Pokemon, on the other hand, changed the face of gaming by crossing into the mainstream like no one, even Mario, had done before. So many happy afternoons battling with friends and comparing Pokemon. This game defined my childhood.
Before Pokemon Black and White came out, I dug up my old copy of Blue and played it. It's still fantastic. Better than Modern Warfare and Battlefield put together. It's hard to believe we'll say the same about Shadow when it's 15 years old.
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