21. Success, Bust or In Between: Ric Flair

[It's Damn Real!]

Success, Bust or In Between Series
Brought to you by IDR

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You know the series by now, I'd hope, but for those of you who don't, here's the run down:

• Former talents of TNA are to be critiqued regarding their work with TNA, and only their work with TNA for the basis of these polls.
• Any work from the performer that was not done during his/her tenure during TNA should not factor into your vote.
• You can vote them either a success, a bust or in-between if you don't feel they deserve either extreme.​

In addition to your vote, I'd like to know why you feel the way you do. Why was this particular charater a succes, a bust or in-between? Remember, these are still NO SPAM threads, so spam replies will not be accepted, and will be warned/infracted over to boot. Take the time to formulate an answer that people can get behind or debate.

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Next in the series is…

Ric Flair

Years with TNA: 2 (2010-2012)
Number of titles runs: N/A​

Notable Feuds:

• Kurt Angle via AJ Styles (2010)
• Hulk Hogan & Abyss (2010)
• Jay Lethal (2010)
• EV 2.0 via Fortune (2010)
• Mick Foley (2010)
• Fortune via Immortal (2011)
• Sting (2011)
• Garrett Bischoff via Eric Bischoff & Gunner (2011/2012)​

Other Accomplishments:

• Debuted in TNA in 2010 on iMPACT!
• Managed AJ Styles
• Founder and manager of Fortune (stylized Fourtune), which consisted of AJ Styles, Robert Roode, James Storm, Desmond Wolfe, Matt Morgan, Douglas William, Kazarian and Christopher Daniels
• Original member of Immortal, which consisted of Abyss, Bully Ray, Chris Harris, Eric Bischoff (co-leader), Gunner,Hulk Hogan (co-leader), Jackson James (referee), Jeff Hardy, Jeff Jarrett, Karen Jarrett (valet), Kurt Angle, Matt Hardy, Mr. Anderson, Murphy, Rob Terry, Scott Steiner and Tommy Dreamer
• Managed Gunner​

Previous Polls:

01. Christian Cage – 87.72% Success, 12.28% In Between, 0% Bust
02. Booker T – 46.43% Bust, 33.93% In Between, 19.64% Success
03. Petey Williams – 52.50% In Between, 35.00% Success, 12.50% Bust
04. Gail Kim – 61.54% Success, 19.23% In Between, 19.23% Bust
05. Senshi – 66.67% Success, 28.57% In Between, 4.76% Bust
06. Monty Brown – 54.05% Bust, 27.03% In Between, 18.92% Success
07. Awesome Kong – 82.61% Success, 13.04% Bust, 4.35% In Between
08. Christopher Daniels – 68.97% Success, 20.69% In Between, 10.34% Bust
09. Consequences Creed – 80.77% Bust, 19.23% In Between, 0.00% Success
10. Sheik Abdul Bashir – 44.00% In Between, 44.00% Bust, 12.00% Success
11. The Naturals – 48.00% Bust, 28.00% Success, 24.00% In Between
12. Traci Brooks – 61.29% Bust, 25.81% In Between, 12.90% Success
13. Johnny Devine – 79.31% Bust, 17.24% In Between, 3.45% Success
14. "The Franchise" Shane Douglas – 35.90% Success, 35.90% Bust, 28.21%% In Between
15. Sabu – 43.59% Success, 33.3% Bust, 23.08% In Between
16. Homicide – 62.50% In Between, 21.88% Success, 15.63% Bust
17. Jay Lethal – 52.38% In Between, 38.10% Success, 9.52% Bust
18. Matt Hardy – 67.02% Bust, 26.60% In Between, 6.38% Success
19. Kevin Nash – 67.57% Success, 24.32% In Between, 8.11% Bust
20. Ron Killings – 57.58% Success, 6.06% Bust, 36.36% In Between​

Have a request?

Send me a PM with the wrestler, manager, etc. you want to see in the series and if I feel it'll spark discussion I'll do it.​

 

[Pera]

This will have to be one of the rare times I go with bust. Dont get me wrong, Ric Flair is an entertaining old man, even when he is mindlessly blabbering away. But for the 'supposed' amount of money they were paying him, the trouble he was outside of the Impact Zone and his failure to show up to dates where he was booked leave this as an easy decision.

Now, I don't like looking up the feuds he was involved in, as I like to recollect the things he did in TNA with my own memory. The things that stick with me so to speak. Firstly:

Feud with Jay Lethal - Now I remember at the time, this feud was hotly spoken about. It was no doubt very good. You had Flair (an aged version) putting over a hot young star in the company. Not only that, but the promo's and interaction between the two were largely applauded by the IWC, so this can only be a good feud right? Well Jay Lethal is no longer with the company, and is taking dates on the Indy scene. Did this feud really launch Jay to the next level? Did it actually draw him more attention? This feud was good while it lasted, but meant nothing in the long run.

Managing AJ Styles and Fourtune - The Flair version of AJ Styles was one of the worst things TNA did in 2010. You had the company's top star, who had been the longest reigning TNA champion to that point, completely change his in ring style and character for what? Why did AJ even need Flair when he had won the World Title without him? It was completely pointless and was largely due to Hogan and co coming in no doubt. Should Flair take some blame? Definitely. Fourtune was face, then heel, then back to face in months and all that Flair did was scream into the mic, blade and rip his suit off.

Allegiance with Immortal - The biggest waste of time ever. Flair was getting paid per show, to wrestle very rarely on PPV and basically took up a right hand man role to Bischoff. They could have used him so much better but they gave him an easy paycheck day in day out.

I can't really remember too much more than that. Again, for the amount of money they were paying him per show, he was no where near worth it. He was basically going through the motions and deep down, he was always going to go back to the WWE. If he was on a paycheck that wasn't as large as reported, he would be somewhere in between. But add the troubles off camera and you have to say he added absolutely nothing to the company, besides a few cheap laughs in a secondary role. So long Ric!

 

[Lowdown]

I'm leaning towards in-between. Flair was far from a bust, but at the same time he seemed to be just hanging around at times. I missed his initial debut due to not having cable at the time. I liked how he sort of played the JJ Dillon role for Fortune, but after Immortal formed, his role kinda diminished among Hogan and Bischoff as the leaders of the stable. Plus, I really didn't feel his feud with Foley. For the time he was there, I'd say he served his purpose as a manager. But that's about it.

 

[The Dragon Saga]

I'm leaning between the realms of in-between and success.

Fortune was basically Four Horsemen, but more TNA-esq and modern, using modern day stars and such, at least when it began. Fortune was one of the best stables TNA has ever had, as well as this Flair did have the entertaining angle with Jay Lethal, you had to agree that the back and forth "Woo" off in the opening of one Impact made for some hilarious television. He contributed to storylines going into Lockdown and Bound for Glory, he was in the middle of the angle with Eric Bischoff and Hogan, not to mention his match with Mick Foley before Bound for Glory a year or so ago was pretty physical and got some pretty positive reviews.

I'm a self admitted Flair mark, think even in controversy he is a legend, he contributed to a lot of angles in TNA, whether he likes to think so or not, he did come out of retirement to give Jay Lethal the rub, his feud with Foley was interesting, some of his promos showed he still has the ability to produce on the stick - "Either I'll die in this ring, on on top of a wild woman," - and the segments with him searching for Sting last Autumn were brilliant. There were editions of Impact where Ric Flair was the star of the show.

I'm going with success, maybe I can't help but show appreciation towards the guy or my vision is clouded by his past achievements and eccentric personality, but I enjoyed Ric Flair's tenure and feel as though he contributed to the company.

 

[It's Damn Real!]

I'm leaning between the realms of in-between and success.

Fortune was basically Four Horsemen, but more TNA-esq and modern, using modern day stars and such, at least when it began. Fortune was one of the best stables TNA has ever had, as well as this Flair did have the entertaining angle with Jay Lethal, you had to agree that the back and forth "Woo" off in the opening of one Impact made for some hilarious television. He contributed to storylines going into Lockdown and Bound for Glory, he was in the middle of the angle with Eric Bischoff and Hogan, not to mention his match with Mick Foley before Bound for Glory a year or so ago was pretty physical and got some pretty positive reviews.

I'm a self admitted Flair mark, think even in controversy he is a legend, he contributed to a lot of angles in TNA, whether he likes to think so or not, he did come out of retirement to give Jay Lethal the rub, his feud with Foley was interesting, some of his promos showed he still has the ability to produce on the stick - "Either I'll die in this ring, on on top of a wild woman," - and the segments with him searching for Sting last Autumn were brilliant. There were editions of Impact where Ric Flair was the star of the show.

I'm going with success, maybe I can't help but show appreciation towards the guy or my vision is clouded by his past achievements and eccentric personality, but I enjoyed Ric Flair's tenure and feel as though he contributed to the company.

I basically want to echo this post.

I was actually just getting ready to write something very similar up to try and counter the negativity that was brewing, but you've nailed it IMO.

Like you, I'm a Flair mark. I've said for years now that I'd rather watch a 400-year old Ric Flair v. a 380-year old Sting fight in wheel chairs in the center of the ring than watch more than half of the bland, personality-less, mundane Abercrombie & Fitch models people consider "stars" today, because even as dinosaurs those men are the true icons and the true stars of the industry, whereas the vast majority of todays "stars" IMO are wannabes passed off as stars simply because the talent pool has shrunk so much. In other words, you can polish a turd all you like — at the end of the day, it's still shit.

Hell, it may be a blatant disregard for the integrity of how these votes are intended to perform, but I'd call him a success alone for the very idea of Fortune (which to my knowledge was his idea), and for the segments of him searching for Sting, the woo-off with Lethal, etc.

To me, Flair was a rousing success, albeit one who flamed out rather unceremoniously, because the way I see it, you're successful if you are remembered for the positives you brought to the company, and there's a fuckin' laundry list of positives I could spout off that involved Flair in his short run with TNA. Absolutely, 100% success.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

I swear Desmond was never in Fortune...

But anyway Ric Flair, if I consider only his work in TNA was a suceess. He entertained me through the majority of his run. He played the senile old man role brilliantly, with the whole "Ric Flair, you're lookin' at GAAAHHD! GAAAHHHHD!" there were some great promos he did:

The one where he claimed to have been struck by lightning

The promo where he absolutely buried EV2, "Hardcore wrestling, chairs, canes, we can all do that!"

To Dixie, "Where in my contract does it say I have to take crap from a woman!"

The stuff with Mick Foley

And of course, the segment with Jay Lethal. That segment made me CRY with laughter. There have only been two other segments in the history of wrestling that have made me do that, (the NWO Arn Anderson parody, and the first ever Rock Concert).

Most of his matches weren't that good in his TNA run but really what do you expect, a lot of it was played for laughs anyway. The Flair Foley match was surprisingly good though, and he did well in Lethal Lockdown. He tore his rotator cuff in that match, Storm superkicked him in the shoulder and then Roode put him in an armbar, Flair is one tough bastard lol

 

[HBsam31]

I basically want to echo this post.

I was actually just getting ready to write something very similar up to try and counter the negativity that was brewing, but you've nailed it IMO.

Like you, I'm a Flair mark. I've said for years now that I'd rather watch a 400-year old Ric Flair v. a 380-year old Sting fight in wheel chairs in the center of the ring than watch more than half of the bland, personality-less, mundane Abercrombie & Fitch models people consider "stars" today, because even as dinosaurs those men are the true icons and the true stars of the industry, whereas the vast majority of todays "stars" IMO are wannabes passed off as stars simply because the talent pool has shrunk so much. In other words, you can polish a turd all you like — at the end of the day, it's still shit.

Hell, it may be a blatant disregard for the integrity of how these votes are intended to perform, but I'd call him a success alone for the very idea of Fortune (which to my knowledge was his idea), and for the segments of him searching for Sting, the woo-off with Lethal, etc.

To me, Flair was a rousing success, albeit one who flamed out rather unceremoniously, because the way I see it, you're successful if you are remembered for the positives you brought to the company, and there's a fuckin' laundry list of positives I could spout off that involved Flair in his short run with TNA. Absolutely, 100% success.

I first have to say that you saying that you would rather see a 400 year old Flair wrestle a 380 year old Sting in wheelchairs in the center of the ring is the absolute best thing I have ever read in these forums. I also had to go with Flair being a success in TNA. Like was said before he was involved in almost every major angle, and at times was the star of the show. His stuff with Lethal was very entertaining, and Fortune was the best stable TNA has had. I was surprised by all the negativity here, and I think he was a success.

 

[Hollywood Naitch]

I had to go with "In Between".

While I certainly don't class Flair as a complete failure in TNA, I do not think that the hype and the amount of money they will have spent bringing him in has been entirely justified.

Flair is a shadow of his former self these days, his in-ring days are almost certainly behind him and his mic work is nowhere near what it used to be. He is barely understandable sometimes when he goes on his trademark rants, although it is always entertaining.

I think the Fortune idea came from Flair, and that was pretty decent although I do not think it had the impact that Naitch was hoping it would. He has had a couple of decent matches, but at his age those are becoming more and more rare. Also, the promo with Jay Lethal was very funny.

I was excited when I saw he was going to manage AJ Styles, as I have thought for years that AJ will never make it as an absolute megastar in the business without better mic skills, and finally there was someone to give him that last piece in the puzzle. I didn't think his Flair-prodigee gimmick worked well at all.

Flair has caused a few problems in TNA too, which again make me wonder whether he justified the money TNA invested in him.

 

[JWGunslinger]

I'm pretty much going with what Naitch said here, in the last few years and during his TNA run he was not the same Flair he used to be. Granted he's old as shit but while any Flair is better than none and he did makes things interesting I couldn't help but feel like I was watching a shell of a man whenever I saw him in TNA. He just didn't feel like the same old nature boy, and while I enjoyed seeing one of my old heros in Flair managing a guy from the younger generation that I love(AJ) I was thrilled but in the end that didn't do much for me. But the stuff with Gunnar and Bischoff was just the absolute shits, that was the standout moment that I thought to myself, "what the hell happened to you Ric?". So while I didn't think much of what he did in the company I'll always love the guy and just the fact that I got to see more of him with his run in TNA made me happy, other than that though he didn't accomplish enough to call his time with the company a success.

 

[IT Factor]

I voted for "in between". While Flair did some noteworthy things in TNA, like helping to establish "Fourtune" and eventually siding with "Immortal, his run in TNA wasn't nearly the success story it could've been. Sadly, what we got was Ric Flair cashing in his name value for just another paycheck. Just as Hulk Hogan did before him. These guys have not been relevant to carrying a show since the WCW days and those are long gone. I enjoyed a good bit of Flair's interaction with TNA, but, kinda got the impression he was only there to temporarily make money and bide his time before WWE would eventually want him back.

His matches were God awful and I was always of the opinion that Flair should've remained in a manager type of role. Overall, I was disappointed in Ric Flair's brief TNA career.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I would say Flair was a success in TNA. He did not need to win any titles, as he had nothing else to prove after his runs in previous federations. Flair was very great at helping establish new talent, in particular the Fourtune stable. Even though the guys in Fourtune such as Styles and Beer Money had already established themselves somewhat in TNA, Flair putting them over with the stable's angle helped them become an even bigger deal. He also was involved with the worthless Immortal stable, which helped give it what little credibility it had. While he did not win any major titles, Flair did a great job from a managerial standpoint during his TNA run so I voted that he was a success.

 

[Alex]

I'd personally say inbetween.

Yes Ric Flair is a legend and all that but his TNA run wasn't that memorable to me. Aside from managing AJ Styles and starting Fortune (Which did fine without him after they split from Immortal) and to a lesser extent that thing with Jay Lethal (who I'd completely forgotten about) I honestly can't really think of anything memorable Flair did. You could argue those things were enough but I feel Flair could have done so much more. Granted he had a certain amount of dates which is probably the reason he didn't.