1970s Final-3)Star Wars vs. 11)Alien

[klunderbunker]

The Wrestlezone Movie Tournament, 1970s Bracket,
Final

Star Wars

Vs.

Alien

Same rules as Papa laid out: No spam, vote has to be in bold at the end, no polls. Voting over Friday.
​

 

[Shocky]

I'm probably going to go against the grain here, and vote for Alien in this matchup.

Star Wars has a ton of merits to it. People simply like to lump it in there as a sci-fi popcorn flick, that's fine. sure the story had beent old before, but when you actually get to the root of almost every movie, it's essentialy the same story told in a different way. Lucas took a bunch of myths, and combined it with a futuristic look, and created the most succesful franchise and brand name in the history of, well almost everything. Honestly, the first Star Wars movie should have won the academy award, certainly over Annie Hall. I feel that the genre was "beneath" the academy, be that as it may. It did a fantastic job of introducing characters that have been a huge part of pop culture for over 30 years.

That being said, more emotions are conjured up while watching Alien. Alien terrifies my innner child. Alien launched the career of Ridley Scott, who went on ahead to make simply amazing movie after another. Alien launched the career of, arguably, the first female action star in Sigourney Weaver. Alien also introduced us to, well the Alien. The egg, the face raping face hugger, the disgusting chest buster, and the evil bug xenomorph. All of those creatures are iconic in their horror and the terror they introduce. It's a shame the Alien vs. Predator movies have pretty much nullified the horror that people once felt for those creatures, but it doesn't downplay the impact Alien has had on me.

 

[Lee]

Ok here we go...it's time for the 1970's final...how will I vote? The end will tell you. As I will do with my other votes I will go in comparing 5 areas;
1) Director
2) Plot
3) Revenue/rewards/impact
4) Stars
5) Flameboys opinion.

1) Directors;

Star wars has George Lucas who I may say is one of the most overrated directors of all time (not #1, mr tarantino has that spot). He directed; THX1138, American Graffiti, Star Wars, the prequel trilogy and that's it. He has a brilliant mind, just not one for directing.

Alien has Ridley Scott. Ridley Scott is a genius at directing, and I'm not going to say all of them, but it shows his true genius when two of his films are in the finals (the only director to do so). Plus he's a local lad (wahey!)

2) Plot

We know the plot for both of them, and here I think Star Wars nips it, as it is the classic tale of young man from poor background takes on the world. That's why I love RPG games

3) Revenue/impact/rewards

Contrary to popular belief, Star Wars episode IV actually had the same budget as Alien $11million.
Alien won 1 oscar and made $104,931,801
Starwars won sweet FA but made $797,900,000

The impact;
Alien has had 4 films in the 'quadrilogy' plus two alien v predator movies, as well as plenty of comics and video games.
Star Wars has had 6 main films, one holiday special, two based on ewoks and two animated movies, four animated serials, many novels/comics and a billion geeks.

Starwars wins this round.

4) Stars

I'm going to give this to Alien. Whilst Starwars had Harrison Ford, this wasn't his breakout film (I think it was indy, or his debut in American Graffiti) whilst Alien rocketed Sigourney Weaver to fame (even winning a BAFTA for best newcomer)

5)Flameboys opinion.

Well I started writing this deciding I was going to give Starwars it by a long shot, but looking at the break down there, you know...I'm going to give it to Alien. (Flameboy cries in his corner.)

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

If you ask the average person to talk about Alien, chances are they'll tell you "Sigourney Weaver", what the alien looked like, and "that scene where the alien popped out of the guy's chest". Chances are, nothing more.

If you ask the average person to talk about Star Wars, chances are they'll know about Vader, his breathing (which they'll do an impression of), Chewbacca, Luke, Han, Leia (especially the hairstyle), the Death Star, the Force, lightsabers, R2D2, Threepio, etc. They'll probably even be able to hum the main theme to you. The list keeps going on. That stuff has become public knowledge, and its far more extensive than the number of people that could name more stuff in Alien than the three things listed above.

There's no arguing that Star Wars has much more significant and noteworthy dents in pop culture than Alien.

Then, as Fluk points out in the post above me, Star Wars has produced tons more merchandise and media, has been more successful at the box office.

Now, while Weaver certainly tops the careers of Hamill, Fisher, Mayhew, Daniels, and company, without a doubt, Mark Hamill is still a widely known actor. And then you have to take into account that Harrison Ford is in it, and although its arguable whether or not Star Wars or Indiana Jones really pushed him to household name status, a large portion of the people out there would probably say you could give credit to Star Wars. Even if you take out the fact that they'd essentially be tied in that category, though, the future success of the actors doesn't necessarily depend on how good a film is. We've seen plenty of actors and actresses that rise to the top despite being in an incredibly bad movie.

Alien is definitely a good movie, but it shouldn't have gotten past The Godfather (no clue how that happened) and it shouldn't pass Star Wars either.

Star Wars: Episode IV - A New Hope.

 

[Danmen001]

People are going against Star Wars? My inner child just committed suicide.

Star Wars had an absolute huge impact on culture, not many movies can make a claim to that. Simply one of the most amazing things at the time, people watched on in awe at the Star Destroyer coming over the screen. The story of a boy from a desert planet, seemingly a nobody, finally overcoming the odds that the Empire set and blowing up the Death Star. The lasers and effects which the real kid inside will hold forever.

Then alien, a good movie (which, conicidently I just hired out from the movie store and am going to watch tomorrow) is a good movie, but nothing about it can really compare to Star Wars in my eyes. And this being based on opinion, I can't really usch much to support Alien.

Star Wars.

 

[klunderbunker]

I said that last round, the winner of Star Wars or Rocky would come out of this decade, and now that's coming true. My vote goes to Star Wars. It's an epic story that draws from old serials, comic books, westerns, and outer space. I defy you to find something missing from this movie. The story of a young man that is in essence an orphan rising up to save the day is a formula that never fails. WHen the Death Star is blown up, it just makes you feel good. Not many moments in Alien like that.

 

[Mr. TM]

Star Wars, I am going to do you in again in this match up. I pick ALIEN. Again, people need to realize that the Star Wars had a horrible two dimensional storyline that only made those millions because of early special effects that hypnotized the audiences of the 70s. Alien on the other hand gave us one of the first great performances by a woman in the leading role. Weaver was top notch, she out acted Ford over in that galaxy far far away. I'm sorry Star Wars. but your time has come for you to be shown the overrated door.

 

[Papa Shango]

I'm torn, but I think I'll have to vote for Alien. Like TM said, Star Wars made its money because of it's ahead-of-its-time special effects. The story is very flat and does not get the least bit captivating until Empire Strikes Back. Alien on the other hand, is captivating and suspenseful throughout. Ridley Scott not only makes a fantastic villain out of the Alien, but also has two fantastic secondary villains, the android Ash, played by the eternally talented Ian Holm (that's Bilbo Baggins, for all you youngsters), and outer space itself. Ridley Scott makes space terrifying, with an almost non-existent score and dark and ominous settings and lighting. With out Alien's fantastic art direction, the Alien isn't nearly as scary. And of course, the phenomenal cast, headed up by Tom Skerrit, John Hurt, and the breakthrough performance of Sigourney Weaver. The sequel is considered better by some. I personally believe they shouldn't be compared. Aliens is a great sci-fi action flick, but Alien, is THE best sci-fi horror film of all time. All you kids who've only seen Alien vs. Predator, you don't know what you're missing.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

Why is everyone saying that Star Wars was only good for its special effects? That means you guys hate "The Hero's Journey" itself? You know, the most classic writer's guide for a story of the rise of a hero???

Alien is a good film, no doubt, but really, how does it beat The Godfather and Star Wars, which have both made so much more impact on the world, have much more well known characters, and are generally more appreciated than Alien? The Godfather and Star Wars consistently make the top lists of films, but Alien doesn't all the time, and even when it does, its rather lower on the scale.

Ridley Scott not only makes a fantastic villain out of the Alien, but also has two fantastic secondary villains, the android Ash, played by the eternally talented Ian Holm (that's Bilbo Baggins, for all you youngsters), and outer space itself.

Alien vs. Darth Vader - Who's the more well known and more appreciated villain?
For secondary villains, what about the massively well known and appreciated Stormtroopers? More people recognize those than Ash. Granted, Greedo and the rest of the Cantina villains aren't anything great, and Tarkin isn't some breakthrough character in cinema, but how often does the average person reference other villains in Alien besides the main? If you're comparing, Darth Vader is a mountain in comparison.

Ridley Scott makes space terrifying, with an almost non-existent score and dark and ominous settings and lighting. With out Alien's fantastic art direction, the Alien isn't nearly as scary.

And Lucas makes Star Wars equally as interesting. A non-existent score works in some films, but EVERYBODY recognizes the music from Star Wars. And if Star Wars is supposedly only good for its visual effects, and Alien isn't considered as good in that department, how does it defeat it on those points?

And of course, the phenomenal cast, headed up by Tom Skerrit, John Hurt, and the breakthrough performance of Sigourney Weaver.

The only person in the cast that has made themselves a career directly as a result of it is Weaver, while like we said before, Ford is the comparison. But even though Hamill and Fisher never took off after Star Wars, people still recognize them because of their iconic roles. How many people would recognize Skerrit out of the average moviegoer in comparison?

All you kids who've only seen Alien vs. Predator, you don't know what you're missing.

Now that I can definitely agree on haha.


All I'm saying is, Alien is an enjoyable film, but I don't see how it defeats The Godfather or Star Wars in a "better film" tournament. If it was a tournament of films you'd rather watch on a rainy day, sure, that would cause some more debate, but I think Alien beating TG and SW in overall quality is like saying Animal House (one of my favorite films) is better than The Shawshank Redemption.

 

[Papa Shango]

Why is everyone saying that Star Wars was only good for its special effects? That means you guys hate "The Hero's Journey" itself? You know, the most classic writer's guide for a story of the rise of a hero???

If you take Star Wars alone, the plot is very simplistic and frankly, uninteresting. And there is no denying that the reason Star Wars was such a hit was it's special effects. Sure, it has other selling points, but at the time of its release, all the word of mouth was about the special effects. Of course, all nerds managed to make the plot out to be some sci-fi Bible.

Alien is a good film, no doubt, but really, how does it beat The Godfather and Star Wars, which have both made so much more impact on the world, have much more well known characters, and are generally more appreciated than Alien?

I actually prefer The Godfather over Alien, but I prefer Alien over Star Wars.

The Godfather and Star Wars consistently make the top lists of films, but Alien doesn't all the time, and even when it does, its rather lower on the scale.

I'll keep that in mind when we do the Wrestlezone Movie Rankings List.

Alien vs. Darth Vader - Who's the more well known and more appreciated villain?

In Star Wars alone, Vader's merely an antagonist. Without the background that's revealed in Empire, or the journey towards redemption that he takes in Jedi, he is not nearly as captivating or legendary. Remember, you have to look at Star Wars the film, not Star Wars the franchise. Vader required elaboration in other films in order to become the legend in film that he is today. Alien became a classic villain in the first film, and it was the star power of the Alien that spawned the sequels.

For secondary villains, what about the massively well known and appreciated Stormtroopers? More people recognize those than Ash. Granted, Greedo and the rest of the Cantina villains aren't anything great, and Tarkin isn't some breakthrough character in cinema, but how often does the average person reference other villains in Alien besides the main? If you're comparing, Darth Vader is a mountain in comparison.

But we're not polling everyone. We're polling the WZ Forum. And in this little niche, Alien appears to be a highly appreciated and regarded work. As it should be.

And Lucas makes Star Wars equally as interesting. A non-existent score works in some films, but EVERYBODY recognizes the music from Star Wars. And if Star Wars is supposedly only good for its visual effects, and Alien isn't considered as good in that department, how does it defeat it on those points?

John Williams is hired when a director wants the score to be recognizable, when they want "theme music". It's what he does. He composes theme music. And he does it well. There's really no point in comparing the scores of the two films. They are completely different, and are meant to be used in different ways.

As far as special effects are concerned, I never said Alien's special effects weren't as good. In fact, Alien has effects that are just as good, if not slightly improved to Star Wars'. But Star Wars came out two years earlier, and at the time, those particular effects were groundbreaking. If I remember correctly (and I do), not only did Star Wars and Alien BOTH win the academy award for visual effects, but they shared a lot of the same art and effects crew, including Art Director Roger Christian. So in the end, the discussion of effects is almost a wash, with a slight edge to Star Wars, but only because they did it first.

The only person in the cast that has made themselves a career directly as a result of it is Weaver, while like we said before, Ford is the comparison. But even though Hamill and Fisher never took off after Star Wars, people still recognize them because of their iconic roles. How many people would recognize Skerrit out of the average moviegoer in comparison

I don't know, John Hurt and Ian Holm both went on to have extremely long, successful and prolific careers. And again, we're not polling average moviegoers, we're polling WZ forum members, and they apparently are rather informed and knowledgeable when it comes to movies. At least, they are more knowledgeable than the average moviegoer, seeing as they are able to discuss more than just the best known movie in a genre.

All I'm saying is, Alien is an enjoyable film, but I don't see how it defeats The Godfather or Star Wars in a "better film" tournament. If it was a tournament of films you'd rather watch on a rainy day, sure, that would cause some more debate, but I think Alien beating TG and SW in overall quality is like saying Animal House (one of my favorite films) is better than The Shawshank Redemption.

Actually, I think Alien does beat Star Wars in a better film tournament. It doesn't in "bigger movie tournament" or a "more entertaining" movie tournament. But it's a very well made film, and a better made film than Star Wars.

 

[AnthonyMango/NoFate007]

It seems to me though, that mostly every film's discussion in this tournament has also been weighed about which films have made more of an impact on pop culture and which ones are more easily recognized in various elements by the general public, but why wouldn't we take that into account? I'll be the first to argue that the Academy saying something doesn't necessarily mean its true, but I think it should be considered as something that does bring a lot of weight to the issue. So even though we're polling the WZ forum members and not the mass public, I don't see why the mass public's reaction to a film doesn't apply. In fact, I think its one of the absolute biggest point/counterpoint things you could debate about. Peer pressure is an amazing thing even when it comes to films. There are far too many people out there that go see films just because "everyone else is seeing it" and think that if a film made a lot of money, its good no matter what, because it was popular. There are going to be people saying that Quantum of Solace is "the best Bond film ever" because its going to make a lot of money...but I think any sensible Bond fan would have to disagree lol.

Now, that argument of people liking a movie just because its the normal thing to do (like how damn near everybody claims most "classic" movies are 5/5 and most people don't have the balls to say that when they're overrated) could be used for both Alien AND Star Wars, so that's a wash...but the popularity scope should be considered, and when you compare popularity in the general public between the two, Star Wars clearly has the upper hand.

And I definitely do agree that we should be examining just A New Hope and not the 6 films combined, but in all honesty, A New Hope is one of my least favorites to just throw into the DVD player and watch. If this becomes IV vs V, my vote is going to Empire in resounding bold letters lol. But if Star Wars didn't deliver as big of a punch as it did, there wouldn't have been as much interest in furthering the story, and I can understand the argument that much of the gross was via special effects, but if that was the only thing that made ANH important, why does the film still stand up to today's standards despite its FX being so dated? Sure, they've tweaked little things here and there to try to help it, but not nearly enough to make it look like the average modern movie, and people don't care that it looks old because the story was the thing that really made them sink their teeth in it. The special effects may have sparked the interest at first, but after all these years, I doubt there's anybody that first watches the films because they think "wow, look at that X-Wing! I have to check out this movie!", and in relation, I honestly don't know of a single person (but maybe you guys could be the first) that has ever intended to watch Alien for any reason other than that they thought the alien looked cool, so they'd just check it out.

Overall, I think Alien is getting a bit of the "Mysterio underdog" treatment in this movie tournament...its got its fans that are willing to support it and want to see it win no matter how much the suspension of disbelief is haha. Alright, low blow comparing it to Mysterio, I'll admit it, but I just can't see how Alien should logically beat Star Wars.

 

[Papa Shango]

I try to be objective, and weigh each category differently, depending on the movie. But some movies have been resting on their laurels in this tournament, getting voted onto the next round simply because of they're a major part of pop culture. Star Wars I think was a major culprit of this. Now that it's getting down to the wire, people who actually disect the films when comparing are starting to weigh some of the other aspects a little more. And when you wipe away the impact on pop culture, you don't have too much else in terms of actual film quality. At least that's my opinion. I mean no disrespect to anyone who still prefers Star wars over Alien.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

Once again. I hate Star Wars. This one is not the best in the series either. It has its moments and some sweet special effects. But it does not measure up to the creepiness of Alien. Alien is sci-fi horror at it's best. The movie had me almost shitting my pants it was so good. So for that I think I'm going to go with my hatred for Star Wars and my love for Alien.


My vote goes too Alien.