WWE RAW 1/2/2012 - itbegins...with Punk vs. Ziggler

Why are people questioning IDR and SD? Seriously, think about it, if you stopped watching WWE for some time and tonight's show was the first one you decided to check out after your little hiatus, you'd walk away disappointed, too. Raw was awful tonight. That's not an opinion, either. Anyone who has watched pro wrestling for years in absolutely no way could ever say tonight's episode of Raw was any good.

Sure, the Jericho thing could lead to something good, but that's about the only positive thing you can say about tonight's Raw: That something good could from it in the future. However, sitting through that crap was not an enjoyable experience.
 
Why are people questioning IDR and SD? Seriously, think about it, if you stopped watching WWE for some time and tonight's show was the first one you decided to check out after your little hiatus, you'd walk away disappointed, too. Raw was awful tonight. That's not an opinion, either. Anyone who has watched pro wrestling for years in absolutely no way could ever say tonight's episode of Raw was any good.

Sure, the Jericho thing could lead to something good, but that's about the only positive thing you can say about tonight's Raw: That something good could from it in the future. However, sitting through that crap was not an enjoyable experience.

Yeah, no. You're smarter than that.
 
No, I know when there are times I like something or don't like something, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's good or bad.

But I'm sorry, anyone who actually thought tonight's episode of Raw was good, forced themselves to believe that, because it wasn't. Just look at the line-up for Christ sakes...

Show starts off with Cena promo. Meh. Not bad, not good.

DBD vs. Rhodes... 3 minutes. Bad.

Santino squash match. Whatever.

The Miz/Seamus/Truth... decent segment. Nothing special, though.

Punk vs. Ziggler: Decent match with a horrible ending.

Divas: Awful.

Jericho running around for nearly 10 minutes: Awful. Say what you want about what this may lead up to, but there's no way you can actually say that was fun to watch. It was ******ed.

6 Man: Awful. Ending? Meh, I don't mind the campy stuff personally, but still... nothing to write home about.

So, please, tell me... how the fuck could anyone consider this to be a good Raw?
 
I didn't say it was good. I enjoyed the Jericho segment, but the rest was forgettable at best. I'm just saying that's all opinion.
 
Well FYI, Cody is featured way more prominently on Smackdown. He has a title defense against Booker this week.

Also, you're not a fan of Ziggler? I'm not either, but he seemed like the kind of guy that would be right up your alley.

Ah, good call. I actually really dig him, too. I just have a really difficult time sitting through WWE's programming to see these guys.

Rhodes I was really into. Did he bring back the old white Intercontinental title? If so, I officially love him.
 
I didn't say it was good. I enjoyed the Jericho segment, but the rest was forgettable at best. I'm just saying that's all opinion.

Right, just like if I say Rebecca Black's song "Friday" is bad, it's just an opinion.

Sorry man, but I don't buy into that "opinion" stuff. When something is bad, it's just bad, and tonight's Raw was bad. Period.

I fucking hate the show Seinfeld and think it sucks, but I realize that's just my opinion and that the show isn't for me. So, I know when to recognize my taste to be different from others, but this isn't one of those cases. Raw flat-out sucked.
 
Ah, good call. I actually really dig him, too. I just have a really difficult time sitting through WWE's programming to see these guys.

Rhodes I was really into. Did he bring back the old white Intercontinental title? If so, I officially love him.

Yes he did, back at... I forget. Hell In A Cell?
 
Yes, and it looks awesome on him. It's a shame they don't let him just have a run similar to the past IC greats from the mid-eighties and early nineties.

That's a shame. That's exactly what I think of when I see it. Hennig, Michaels, Warrior, Hart, etc.

That kid has the it factor though. Just watching him come out, watching his mannerisms, etc. I remember him cutting some nice promos, too. Great heel.
 
I'd be lying if I said I thoroughly enjoyed the Jericho segment. I didn't. Then again, I didn't dislike the segment. Wait and see - best approach.

It's going somewhere. I don't doubt that. Will it work? Jericho is a top-notch worker, and can take a pile of human shit and spin that shit into gold. Bottom line - he drew some heat. That was the purpose. Will this be remembered as a great segment? No, but it won't give fans a reason to cheer him next week.

He trolled us. Hard.
 
More like Jeritol. He's a boring old man who's seen his best days. How many more times is he going to do the same thing? Fucking glory hog.
 
Call me crazy, but I don't think the "Itbegins" is Jericho. Where was the girl that was suppose to come before? Why didn't he say anything? WWE definitely has me interested in the angle, and I'm hoping that Jericho is one HUGE swerve. Probably not, but ya.
 
A couple of things:

1) I'm intrigued by the Jericho stuff.

2) In no way do I think the point of his segment was to "get them booing by the end". I think Jericho knew damn well that despite the fact that he left Raw as a pompous heel and despite the fact that his promo videos were eery, dark, and evil, people were going to cheer him the second they saw him. He knew this and there was no avoiding it. If you have enough longevity in this business, you will get cheered upon your return. Hell, even fucking JBL got cheered when he came back for a night, but he garnered boos by what he said after the initial pop. Rather than letting the fans cheer and shutting them down in one night, Jericho let them have their moment and cheer. Next week (presumably), he'll acknowledge it and move forward with why he's back.

No, he wasn't trying to milk the segment so long that he got booed. Not at all. He was giving the fans what they wanted upon his return. Step 1 was the return. All the stuff after his arms out with the jacket lights on was fodder. It was there to make you wonder why he's here and for the live fans to revel in the moment. The darkness will come out and he will change his tune, but the return worked like a charm and I believe it will only get better moving forward. I mean, imagine if he came out and cut a scathing promo about the fans and then about CM Punk and everything he's feeling. If he did that on January 2nd, what the fuck are they supposed to do to build the feud for 3 more months? Jericho is not new so he doesn't need "heat building" segments like a Bobby Roode (sorry to use a TNA reference but he's a new main eventer and a new main event heel so those segments are necessary to garner him heat in general. He needs that AND heat for the feuds he is in, Jericho doesn't). So if he doesn't need those, why burn out on one show?

3) Jericho return = intriguing, Kane Return = fucking atrocious.

I get the explanation, but the mask thing is stupid, the campy, over the top television he is a part of is stupid, and the story itself is ridiculous. I have no interest in Kane being the reason that Cena "turns", nor do I think it's even remotely a good idea to "turn" Cena. And no, that has nothing to do with merchandise or something stupid like that. It has everything to do with the fact that Cena needs to be the Cena that is the poster boy of this generation against Rock. It's poster boy vs. poster boy. Changing his character now takes so much away from the match. Plus, I really believe that John Cena is above the heel/face thing. We've seen him feud this year against heels (Truth, Miz, Del Rio) and we've seen him feud with babyfaces (Rock, Punk). He can do both just as he is, so why mess with that? Doing so won't get you anywhere. More people care about Cena one way or the the other than anyone else in wrestling, period. As long as that's the case, don't mess with it. It's when people stop caring that you think about changing things.
 
WWE gets railed upon for hot-shotting too many programmes in 2011 and then gets railed upon for "dragging" a storyline beyond a single week in 2012.

It is pretty obvious that the goal of this is for Jericho to be a heel, probably a very similar heel to when he last left by proving to the fans that they are indeed fickle hypocrites and then castigating them for being weak.

However, I would question how good a segment like that is for getting the ordinary viewer to tune in. Few might be intrigued by it but most others will likely see it as way over-the-top acting and not recognise an ounce of the subtlety involved.
 
Next time someone pulls the apron up to grab a chair, I want Cole to become terror stricken and yell "Oh God! He's trying to enter the abyss! Someone stop him! That's Kane's domain! He's trying to enter the abyss!"
 
You want to draw heat from the 90%? Have Jericho say something. At the end of those ten minute of shenanigans, have him pick up a microphone, drop one line on the mic. Sycophants. Parasites. Insects. Whatever. Throw all their adulation back at them. Instantly, Memphis drowns him in a sea of boos, and he gets the same reaction next week.

Except that anyone who's even skimmed through Jericho's books knows that he hates reusing old concepts and gimmicks, and that with each hiatus he wants to create a new persona to return as. Why bother with any kind of cryptic messages or promos if he was just going to come out as plain ol' '09 Jericho? I'd have been far more disappointed in him if he had gone that route right away.

"We want Ryder" ring any bells that was the IWC because who else gave a fuck about him except anyone who owned a computer and goes on wrestling forums certainly not the marks. Vince must have cared enough to push him. Lulz right back at ya.

COUNTERLULZ! Poor chum. It took Vince HOW long to get on the Ryder wagon? How long did he sit out most Raws? How long was he just backstage being goofy, even after the IWC and the merch buying public showed him their support? No, no my friend...these lulz are for you.

Meta-heat? :lmao:

Yeah, I chuckled too.

A lot of people talked about 9/11.

Must have been pretty fucking awesome.

To be honest, it was quite the heat maker, no?
 
I don't understand wh you cretins don't like the Kane vs. Cena feud. It's so cleverly done, it makes me sick to think that Ranjin Singh thought it up. The point of the feud is not to get physical, it's to get into Cena's head. I've been so impressed thus far.
 
DirtyJosé;3620504 said:
COUNTERLULZ! Poor chum. It took Vince HOW long to get on the Ryder wagon? How long did he sit out most Raws? How long was he just backstage being goofy, even after the IWC and the merch buying public showed him their support? No, no my friend...these lulz are for you.

Still pushed him though when he didn't have to.
 

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