Why do people call the original ECW fans smart?

[Blue Chipper]

Alternate title: Why do people call smarks smart wrestling fans?

Everything that Iv'e ever heard about the fans of ECW, who were heavy smarks, is that they were smart and intelligent wrestling fans, who knew everything about the buisness and what went into having a good match. Why do so many individuals involved in wrestling call the fans of ECW smart fans, and fans that knew everything revolving around the world of wrestling? Iv'e heard Mick Foley, Paul Heyman (obviously), perhaps Vince, and several other well respected wrestling figures say this.

My question is, are these fans smart? Do they know what goes into having a superb match? Do they really know the essence of what wrestling is about and are more knowledgable fans? Why do so many say they're smart? Does that mean fans of other promotions are not smart fans? Do they just think they're smart, when in reality they don't have the first clue about pro-wrestling? Share your opinions.

 

[ap35hs3on7zso62s]

umm wow lol...where to begin....you can't really say one total group of people (ecw fans alone) are smarks...I mean that is the general stereotype, but I think a lot of that grew during the whole 2005 or 2006 ONS, when the Cena hate really started to begin...people started to see through Cena, and see how watered down he was compared to the ECW stars, and the whole ECW promotion...of course, to kill that, Vince made WWE's ECW....but to get back to your question....Smarks are from all over, whether its people who've been WWE fans for 5 years, or 15 years...people who only watched WCW....people who visit their local promotions....people who come to wrestlezone...its not right to say they know NOTHING of the business, they obviously do, but I think it can be JUST as much of a negative thing as being a total mark....like, me, if you asked me if I liked Rey Mysterio (because you do), I'd tell you 'no' becaue I hate the fact that he was GIVEN the belt only because Eddie Guerrero died, thats me 'KNOWING' the business...as opposed to me being a mark thinking Rey legitimately got the title because he was really so inspired by Eddie...which everyone knows is bullshit, and now, look, Rey is getting the kiddies to buy his masks....I really know I'm not making much sense right now...but I guess what I'm trying to say is, anyone from anywhere can be a smark....or a 'smart' wrestling fan...I never watched the original ECW...but I know well enough to know the business in and out, because I'm currently training, and I come to wrestlezone, AND I have common sense..and maybe its a bad thing....maybe I'm too smart about the business for my own good because instead of sitting back and enjoying the show...I wish it were the same that its been about 10 years ago because to me...those were the BEST times...and now...its all so boring to me to watch...i honestly have not sat through a whole RAW for about 2 years...or Smackdown.....either way, I'd say its not right to accuse fans of one promotion to be 'smarks'....thats just stereotyping...smarks come from everywhere.

 

[Decarow]

It's easy to sound intelligent. All it takes is one person saying something, and 500 others copying them. All it takes is one person to say "Swagger only debuted a few months ago, but he deserves the WWE Title now!" and have people thinking he should be in the main event. It only takes one influential person to get followers. Paul Heyman has a great way with words, and people use what he says a lot whenever they debate. My point is, a lot of the ECW fans are just saying what they've heard other people say. But it's no doubt that people watch for entertainment, and ECW was extremely entertaining. It was people throwing their bodies around, using weapons and getting hurt, and that was what people wanted to see. However, to true wrestling, it is awful and tasteless.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

No, ECW fans are a blood thirsty cult, Paul Heyman said himself. The orignal ECW, the ECW Vince pushed, was close to the orignal ECW, and guess what... It got very little ratings, because ECW gets boring very quick. Yes, it was entertaining for a lil bit, but brutal and violent matches after a while dies out. Not also that, but ECW started not that blood thirsty dangerous show on TV that people liked. It started out like WCW, very boring, unexciting, and the fans were disappointed. Overall, the question is, were ECW fans smart fans, should of been Were ECW fans were hardcore fans. The answer is no, because ECW failed, because their fans switch the channel to WWF. Overall WWE fans that stuck with the show during WCW's reign were smart fans, because the work ethic, and matches were far better then what WCW or ECW could do. Because their wasn't tables, there wasn't people switching to NWO or WCW everyweek. It was top notch tough matches. Yes there was blood shed, and hurtful injury, but it sold the matches. In ECW people used cheese graders, and sticks. So not so much on intelligence, or dedication. Now, ECW did put on a good live event,but other than that, it wasn't much.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

umm wow lol...where to begin....you can't really say one total group of people (ecw fans alone) are smarks...I mean that is the general stereotype, but I think a lot of that grew during the whole 2005 or 2006 ONS, when the Cena hate really started to begin...people started to see through Cena, and see how watered down he was compared to the ECW stars, and the whole ECW promotion...of course, to kill that, Vince made WWE's ECW....but to get back to your question....Smarks are from all over, whether its people who've been WWE fans for 5 years, or 15 years...people who only watched WCW....people who visit their local promotions....people who come to wrestlezone...its not right to say they know NOTHING of the business, they obviously do, but I think it can be JUST as much of a negative thing as being a total mark....like, me, if you asked me if I liked Rey Mysterio (because you do), I'd tell you 'no' becaue I hate the fact that he was GIVEN the belt only because Eddie Guerrero died, thats me 'KNOWING' the business...as opposed to me being a mark thinking Rey legitimately got the title because he was really so inspired by Eddie...which everyone knows is bullshit, and now, look, Rey is getting the kiddies to buy his masks....I really know I'm not making much sense right now...but I guess what I'm trying to say is, anyone from anywhere can be a smark....or a 'smart' wrestling fan...I never watched the original ECW...but I know well enough to know the business in and out, because I'm currently training, and I come to wrestlezone, AND I have common sense..and maybe its a bad thing....maybe I'm too smart about the business for my own good because instead of sitting back and enjoying the show...I wish it were the same that its been about 10 years ago because to me...those were the BEST times...and now...its all so boring to me to watch...i honestly have not sat through a whole RAW for about 2 years...or Smackdown.....either way, I'd say its not right to accuse fans of one promotion to be 'smarks'....thats just stereotyping...smarks come from everywhere.

Why would Vince kill ECW to make Cena look tough. ECW got very low ratings when re-launched and they let Heyman run the show. It only lasted as long as it could. One night Stand didn't sell that much PPVs as well. So overall the product known as ECW couldn't sell. Vince realize putting the small and up and coming wrestlers on the show, and the big names on the other shows would be a better move. You are right though, you can't call fans of one organization smarks...

 

[JJYanks121]

I like this topic because I've thought about this myself. I think, and I could be way off base here, that part of the question comes from people saying things like "Raven was one of the best ever in this business and was just buried for no reason in WWF/WCW, and same goes for Shane Douglas". The hardcore followers of the original ECW have the same enthusiasm for their originals that band followers who say "if you like them now, listen to their earlier stuff, that's when they were at their best". These sentiments make sense to those in that mindset, but to those outside of it, it really doesn't. It is also the belief of those who stick to it that anyone who thinks differently than them is simply another of the masses that is brainwashed by Vince McMahon to see his product and his wrestlers as superior.

The truth is, the WWE beat out ECW and WCW for that matter because it WAS superior in basically every aspect of the business. Loyalists weren't happy about it and since there was no more evidence, started this belief that it was simply a money thing but the talent was there and it was the best promotion. I will concede that some of these fans are very passionate about wrestling and their promotion. However, to say they are the smartest of fans, I'm not sure I could say that because they are short sighted. To have such tunnel vision to think "your guys are the best and everyone else sucks" is the same thing that gets me in sports when fans of one team can't see the talent on others. As a Yankee fan, I see it from Bostonians who to this day some of them can't respect Derek Jeter as a talent. It's one thing to not like someone BECAUSE of their talent, but it's another to deny it's even there.

In my own journey, I have gone from merely a watcher who submersed himself in the story and didn't think or care about the reality behind the kayfabe, to someone who avidly follows the business, reads all the stories i can behind the scenes, and is an avid reader of wrestling autobiographies. I have seen a great deal and learned a lot, and upon studying the product, I consider myself to have a pretty good idea of what makes the business go. I will openly admit that I did not watch ECW when it existed but I have gone back and watched old footage and learned as much as I can because I believe an argument without backing means about as much as an Ultimate Warrior promo....not a whole lot. I might be rambling now, but the point is, those who sympathize with the little guy look at this followers from the 90s as being "on to something" or "ahead of the game" as fans. If you want to know about that style and the blood, gore, and violence interests you, they might seem smart, but if you are into the broader spectrum of professional wrestling, many of those fans might be lacking due to holding on to nostalgic feelings.

 

[ProWrestling'sBrain]

No. The realistic answer would be everyone is smart in their own way. If this were back in the late 90's I'd get pissed at some ECW fan if he went up to me putting over his intelligence claiming he is a superior contributor to wrestling than me, a 10 year old kid. As someone who was a heavy supporter of wrestling (especially the WWE/WWF) during my childhood I can say the kids I knew, myself included, and the older people I knew and still know aren't/weren't as stupid as some people on the internet claims. Everyone I knew would watch wrestling because it was entertaining and it appealed to them and in my opinion if you are a fan because it meets your standards and if it appeals to you then that is a very smart, yet, logical reason for being a fan. It's the same as these self proclaimed "smarks" and former ECW fans; they liked what would meet their standards and what appealed to them much like the same "marks" they talk down on. We are not talent scouts, we are just fans.

So to answer your question, no. They weren't as smart as some people would like to claim. Sure they would view wrestling in a whole different perspective than others but that doesn't make the ECW fans smarter or superior.

That is the unbias truth.

 

[Arrynboot]

I was and still am a massive fan of the original ECW, I was and still am a massive fan of WWE and though its a little off topic im also a massive fan of UFC, these three companies are in so many ways similar but at the same time completely different. The point that most people seem to miss about the original ECW is that the stories and angles were not watered down life the PG WWE and that appealed to people like me, not all of ECW was nonsensical violence, there were some of the most gifted technical bouts in wrestling history and a much broader type of wrestling than WWE or WCW would show at the time.

ECW introduced lucha libre to america, they had women in actual wrestling matches not like what we see today, the wrestlers were far more believable in character because they had the freedom to say what was on their mind and the ECW fans that regularly attended showa were considered smart because a lot of them knew the wrestlers and knew what was going on with them.

I preferred ECW to WWE and WCW based on these facts but im still a strong supporter of all wrestling today (TNA included).
I don't think im smarter than the average fan because of this, im a humble guy and I know there is a truckload of people on this forum alone that know a hell of a lot more than I do about wrestling and likely always will. ECW fans were not smarter than the rest, they were just better informed about their favourite wretling company, but WWE and WCW wanted it that way to protect the credibility of their product.

This is also why some refer to Paul Heyman as the mad scientist of wrestling, he did everything the opposite way to the everyone else and formed his own personal loyal cult fanbase along the way.

 

[TellMeWhy]

ECW fans were considered smart because they were the first and only group of wrestling fans known to have real knowledge on talent, they knew what it took to have a good match, and respected the artform long before the internet and at a time when most wrestling fans were your casual mom, dad, and kids that just watched for entertainment. Most ECW fans were truly into wrestling and knew plenty about their favorite wrestlers the way rock fans followed their favorite rock stars. They were fanatics for wrestling. If you went to the original ECW shows, fans were getting to know each other and were trading wrestling tapes from Japan and all over.

And lol at the people in here who said the original ECW couldn't sell. Both ECW ONS shows in 05 & 06 both had about 500,000 buys and over and even sold well when it came to DVD. Everything from the original ECW put out by WWE has done well and has done much more superb than what the WWE has anticipated.

 

[TellMeWhy]

No, ECW fans are a blood thirsty cult, Paul Heyman said himself. The orignal ECW, the ECW Vince pushed, was close to the orignal ECW, and guess what... It got very little ratings, because ECW gets boring very quick.

What in the world are you talking about. When did Vince McMahon ever bring back ECW in it's original form on TV. And to WWE standards, the new ECW now isn't doing that superb, so it might be something you might want to think about.

Yes, it was entertaining for a lil bit, but brutal and violent matches after a while dies out. Not also that, but ECW started not that blood thirsty dangerous show on TV that people liked.

As if ECW was only brutal and violent matches. Some of the best wrestling in the U.S. until this day has come from ECW. Before WCW gave these guys a chance, where do you think guys like Guerrero, Jericho, Benoit, Mysterio, and Juventud got their start in the U.S. These guys were not putting on bloodbath matchups either. They were putting on genuine pure wrestling and the ECW fans appreciated it.

It started out like WCW, very boring, unexciting, and the fans were disappointed. Overall, the question is, were ECW fans smart fans, should of been Were ECW fans were hardcore fans. The answer is no, because ECW failed, because their fans switch the channel to WWF. Overall WWE fans that stuck with the show during WCW's reign were smart fans, because the work ethic, and matches were far better then what WCW or ECW could do. Because their wasn't tables, there wasn't people switching to NWO or WCW everyweek. It was top notch tough matches. Yes there was blood shed, and hurtful injury, but it sold the matches. In ECW people used cheese graders, and sticks. So not so much on intelligence, or dedication. Now, ECW did put on a good live event,but other than that, it wasn't much.

I'm not even going to decipher this right here. You need to rephrase this entire paragraph.

 

[Chill]

I think the fans of the original ECW were considered 'smart' because they were absorbed in all things ECW. They would research the ECW wrestlers and reportedly knew everything about them, they would take part in online forums while the shows were is progress, they would watch tapes of guys in Japan rumoured to be coming over to ECW, they would show up at the ECW Arena early in the hope of catching any biz and it has been said many times that they were a fundamental aspect of ECW's initial success. I suppose they were considered smart because they didn't just watch the show...they researched it and knew everything about it, they supported the ECW Revolution and respected the new era of wrestling that upstart promotion was attempting to usher in. Of course, it could also be argued that fans of WCW and WWE were just as knowledgable about the organisations they supported...

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

What in the world are you talking about. When did Vince McMahon ever bring back ECW in it's original form on TV.

Straight after ONS '06 after RVD beat Cena. They had a large number of originals on the roster, and even had Extreme Rules matches on a regular basis. It may only have been on TV for an hour but it was still pretty close to the original.

What went wrong was they immediately thought that the Big Show would be a good person to put the belt on following RVD's weed bust, and that only made people stop and think about whether they really wanted to keep watching, and then Vince decided that he'd have Show wrestle loads of guys from Raw and SD and none of the actual ECW guys, and that's pretty much what killed it.

As for the main question, I always thought it was because the ECW fans were so up together with the behind the scenes information of pro-wrestling, compared with other die hard fans who maybe weren't so clued in. They knew who was about to leave the promotion and why, they recognised a shoot interview if they saw one, and they were also very up together with all of the terminology of pro-wrestling. Then i guess the internet became more impactful amongst wrestling fans and that's why we're all kinda considered to be smarks

 

[TellMeWhy]

Straight after ONS '06 after RVD beat Cena. They had a large number of originals on the roster, and even had Extreme Rules matches on a regular basis. It may only have been on TV for an hour but it was still pretty close to the original.

That was nothing like the original ECW. Nothing WWE has ever put on regarding the new ECW has never reflected the original ECW at all except for the 1 time when they did a live ECW broadcast in the HammerStein Ballroom in front of the smarks and the other time they did a show in Philly where Big Show defeated RVD for the ECW title. Vince McMahon has not once tried to capitalize on the true feel and excitement of the original ECW.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

The orignal ECW, the ECW Vince pushed, was close to the orignal ECW, and guess what... It got very little ratings, because ECW gets boring very quick.

Nice way to try and re-write history in your own mind. The original WWECW that Vince put out actually produced much higher ratings than what is on TV today. It wasn't the original ECW and I know a lot of fans were upset at that, but people still watched it.

That product produced ratings in the 2.0's until Vince began to tinker with it and toning it down. That's actually higher than what Smackdown today draws. Now it is down to producing the .9's to 1.3's that you see today. I guess nothing but straight up wrestling also gets boring pretty quickly, too.

 

[WWF Wrestling Fan]

Ok Beening an Original ECW fan my self from 94- 2001 I can tell you ECW was diffrent from WWF and WCW not because of the blood and chairs to me the Original ECW was diffrent you had wrestlers doing shit that you see today now like Mike Awsome leaping over the top rope and landing on his opponet that was never done til ECW came along and what made ECW Diffrent was that the didnt have pyro and they were the 1st company besides the AWA but AWA Closed in 93 to have the owner be involved in matchs WWF started that in 97 along with WCW with Bischoff. The Original ECW had some soon to be wrestling greats in the company Tommy Dreamer Rey Misterio Eddy Gurerrero Rob Van Dam Sandman Sabu Shane Douglas I could go on for hours.

 

[Paradox100]

This one caught my eye, maybe because I'm watching Living Dangerously as I write this. But, ECW fans are usually knowledgeable wresting fans, but then again, Smart fans are all over the place. Now, let's go through this. The little 8 year olds who cheer for who Vinnie tells them to, and boos for who vinnie tells them, aren't knowledgeable fans. But the ones cheer for who they want, boo the ones they want to boo for, are more knowledgeable than those kids. But the ones who know the business, the ones who know the background of the company, the wrestlers, go to the local indy events, go on the boards, and of course know how professional wrestling came about, are "smarks" Guys like me know a whole lot about the business, and we know that the 8 year olds are really ruining wrestling.

But, back to the main point, some may say that ECW original fans are smarter, because ECW was perhaps the perfect product. The fans demanded it, and Paul E. gave it to them. It's really the only promotion where you'll find hardcore matches, drama, comedy, great technical wrestling, and good gimmicks on the same card. ECW had it all, everyone from Sandman to Steve Corino. ECW fans really cut through the BS, and didn't go "Well, I'm going to cheer for who the boss tells me to cheer for. Even if I don't like the guy." ECW fans knew wrestling, that may be why you hear this.

 

[Paradox100]

Why would Vince kill ECW to make Cena look tough. ECW got very low ratings when re-launched and they let Heyman run the show. It only lasted as long as it could. One night Stand didn't sell that much PPVs as well. So overall the product known as ECW couldn't sell. Vince realize putting the small and up and coming wrestlers on the show, and the big names on the other shows would be a better move. You are right though, you can't call fans of one organization smarks...

Wow, Wow, Wow, where to start. Do you notice that ECW One Night Stand 2005 sold over 400,000 pay per views? While WWE averages 180,000 for regulars PPVS? ECW wasn't all about self-mutilation, hardcore violence, and street thugs who could only get by from hitting themselves with kendo sticks. Here is my list of ECW wrestlers who were world champions in other companies.

Shane Douglas, Steve Corino, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Rob Van Dam, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Rey Mysterio, Terry Funk, and Stone Cold Steve Austin. (There might be more, just off the top of my head) Some of these guys are the best wrestlers to get in a ring. Steve Austin is one of the biggest things in all of wrestling.

Now, let's look at some of the great wrestlers who got their fame in ECW. 2 Cold Scorpio, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn, Chris Candido, Psicosis, Super Crazy, C.W. Anderson, Kid Kash, Kronus, Sabu (Hardcore, but great wrestler too) Taz (one Z) Stevie Richards, shall I go on? Once again, this is the list that comes off the top of my head.

ECW ratings were down? They were better than today, now they struggle to pull a 1.0. When it re-launched, they were easily getting 2.0. Because ECW was revolutionary. So many joined the revolution.

There you go, almost everything you said in that post was complete bull.

 

[WWF Wrestling Fan]

I agree with you 100 % see iam an old school wrestling fan i been watchin it sence i was 3 years old and that was back in 1985 you know when Sandman was a heel I Liked him along with RVD Sabu and Dreamer when they turned face i still liked them Stevie Richards is one wrestle i didnt and will never cheer for ever Mick Foley and Terry Funk are 2 people i diffinetly cheer for heel or face but back to what you were sayin yes Vince Mc Mahon throws this shit at us '' Oh you will cheer for john cena because iam Vince Mc Mahon and hes in my company '' no we cheer who we want to cheer and boo who we want to boo.

 

[Decarow]

Paradox, i think you meant to say ECW ONS 2006. And it wasn't just a "regular PPV", it only happened twice. And ONS was originally only supposed to happen once. Hence why it got such a big turn out. And if ECW was so good, why didn't it stick around too long? Its wrestlers got bored and left for WCW and WWF. Steve Austin was the biggest thing in wrestling because of his WWF character, not his ECW character.

Also Paradox, the 8 year olds are not the worst thing for wrestling. They are the ones buying the merchandise, keeping the company alive. Plus they aren't the only ones just cheering for the faces. Casual viewers do too. Let's let the IWC be the only people to watch wrestling, and it'll die in a very short amount of time. ECW fans did not know wrestling, they knew high spots and carnage. It was not the perfect company cus it died within a decade.

 

[Paradox100]

Ok, what I meant by "regular pay per view" was I meant that ECW must be special, if they win by a landslide pay per view buy wise. Where ECW can sell more pay per views than WWE's regular pay per views. I said regular, because Wrestlemania still got more buys of course. But if i'm not mistaking, it was one of the highest bought ppv's behind mania for both years.

With Stone Cold, another error in writing. I mean this in that when he was in WCW, he really didn't do much. But when he came to ECW, they gave him the mic, and let him talk. Let him do some shoot promos that were some of the best. Steve himself admits that ECW helped his career greatly, and made his WWF promos much better.


ECW did die, we know this. But when you don't get any commercial time, and have two multi-billion dollar companies taking your talent. (Yes, I know Vince helped a bit) But even if he helped, stealing all the talent will hurt the company. It was the first wrestling show on TNN, and it was the guinea pig science experiment. TNN wrestling shows would be Raw and TNA. (TNN=Spike) If there was no commercial for Raw all those years ago, it wouldn't have been as successful. When you think about it, if there were no commercials for anything, the products wouldn't be as successful at all.

ECW was all about "high spots and carnage." No, Combat Zone Wrestling is all about high spots and carnage. In the last week or so, I've watched ONS 05, 06, massacre on 34th street, Living dangerously 2000, and Guilty as Charged 2001. I can understand why the WWE product didn't have as much violence, but the other three were ECW original. You'd see some weapons, sure. But most of the matches were great technical wrestling, great chemistry with the likes of Tajiri and Super Crazy, and good wrestling from the likes of Jerry Lynn and Rob Van Dam. The real only "extreme" wrestlers from the early days of ECW were Sandman and Dreamer. ECW was a violent promotion, easily granted. But you also had some of the best wrestling around.

Everybody who hated ECW says it was all about weapons and violence. Now I understand that ECW guys got hurt more, but for a few years, WWF was exactly the same! Where do you think they got the idea of it? They did many things that ECW did, but since it was WWF, it wasn't looked down as much for.

Let's look at it like this, President Bush would screw up in speeches sometimes. So let's say he mispronounces something, people would look at him like "Oh, how typical." But if Obama did the same thing, they would say "Oh, doesn't happen much, simple mistake."

Since many people looked at ECW as this violent blood sport of a company, they got looked down a more for anything they did. But when WCW and WWF started to do the things ECW did, it was "new and fresh" or "It's WWF's new Attitude!"

 

[I Beat Dan Gable]

Anyone that ever saw Sabu coming off the balcony on to the Sandman lying on a stack of tables in the ECW Arena in South Philadelphia or the Cactus Jack/Terry Funk matches, would not call the original ECW boring. The first time I saw the ECW on late night TV, I couldn't watch the WWF or WCW. The ECW put the excitement back into pro wrestling for me.

 

[CuddleBuns84]

They tried to bring back original ECW, and it failed. Paul Heyman was fired the next day because of December to Dismember was awful mess. Yes ECW had great matches, but never used them to their advantage. Not also that, but watch some Paul Heyman's interviews about ECW. He said straight up, it was a cult. If the fans were smart, they would of found a way of keeping ECW a float instead of letting it die out.