Why Did The Clock Run Out On Vader Time?

[The Brain]

I have been a die hard WWE fan for 23 years. Throughout the 90’s I was a casual WCW viewer. During the WCW shows I would see some guys who I really wanted to see in the WWF. Of course there was Sting. I thought Stunning Steve Austin would make a great IC champ in the same league as Mr. Perfect (who knew how big he would become?) I thought Harlem Heat would make a nice addition to a weakening tag division. There was one man I wanted to see come to the WWF more than anyone else. That man was Big Van Vader.

Vader caught my attention and captured my imagination more than anyone in WCW. He was such a dominate force and he stood out from everyone else. I was just hoping for the day he would come to the WWF. I pictured him having an epic feud with the Undertaker and them squaring off at WrestleMania X. I imagined what matches between him and Bret Hart would be like. He seemed like a natural fit for WWF. The months and years passed, but no Vader. I knew it would happen someday. On New Year’s Eve 1995 I was ecstatic to see a Vader vignette on Wrestling Challenge. Vader was coming and would debut in the Royal Rumble! Finally!

I was pumped up for that Rumble. I couldn’t wait to see Vader. He came in and made a pretty good impact. Nothing spectacular, but solid. He and Yokozuna were eliminated at the same time and the two exchanged blows on the floor. Obviously Vader had his first WrestleMania opponent lined up. The match was announced, but was changed to a six man tag. This was done either to get more guys on the card or because the WWF didn’t think Vader and Yoko could deliver in a singles match at mania. I’m leaning toward the former, but I still would have liked to seen Vader in a singles match for his mania debut. Vader would go on to beat Yoko and Razor in ppv matches throughout the spring, but wasn’t quite wreaking the havoc I imagined. King of the Ring was forgettable, but Vader was going to get a title match against Shawn Michaels and main event SummerSlam. Now we’re talking. The SummerSlam match was good, but the ending was kind of a mess. Unfortunately Vader would loose a #1 contender’s match to Sid and fall out of the title picture as quickly as he entered it. In early 1997 I finally got the feud with Taker. Too bad Superstars was recently pulled off network television. I didn’t have cable yet and was having a hard time following wrestling throughout the first half of 1997. The feud wasn’t anywhere near as epic as I hoped it would be. Despite beating Taker at the Rumble and putting on a decent performance at the Final Four ppv Vader found himself in another tag match at mania. It was for the title this time, but didn’t really have a big storyline. Vader time was already running out. He jobbed to Ken Shamrock in Shamrock’s debut. I know Shamrock was getting an immediate push, but I don’t think someone the caliber of Vader should job to a guy in his first match. After that Vader got in some trouble in Kuwait and wasn’t seen much throughout the summer. Vader turned face in the fall and that was pretty much the end of my hopes of Vader being a force in the WWF. After a lackluster feud with Goldust Vader jobbed to Kane and missed out on mania all together. After losing to Kane again Vader actually called himself a big piece of shit and said Vader time was over. I actually thought this might light a fire under Vader again. I pictured him winning King of the Ring and challenging Austin for the title as SummerSlam. Turns out I was only dreaming and Vader time was over. He would leave the WWF by October.

So Vader was with the company for about two and a half years. He got one title match on ppv. He never held any titles. He never had a big mania match and never got that feud with Bret Hart I wanted. After having so much success internationally and with WCW Vader was pretty much a bust with the WWF. My question is why. Why did Vince and company drop the ball with Vader? Did they feel he was past his prime? Did Vince just not want to push Vader because he achieved his fame elsewhere? I never understood that. Talent is talent. Regardless of where he was before Vader ended up with Vince. Why not use him? Maybe my hopes were too high and my expectations were unrealistic. I don’t think so. I feel if Vader had been given more attention he could have had a memorable run with the WWF.

Sorry I went on for so long. Once I get going it’s hard to stop. So what do you think? Any other Vader marks out there? Anyone else think the WWF failed with Vader? I’m looking forward to read more opinions.

 

[klunderbunker]

I'd think it's a combination of things. First of all, he wasn't a Vince creation. I know I say that a lot, but think about it: how many non Vince creations are big deals? There's not that many. Vince was committed to Shawn for some reason and Vader was never going to be anything more than a guy to be handed to Shawn for a huge win. After that, I think they just had nothing to do for him for awhile and then in late spring of 97 he got in big trouble in Kuwait and after that he was pushed pretty far down. Also, he's just not a face character anywhere. Vader was a natural born heel but Vince decided to make him a face, which makes no sense. There's likely other reasons, but that's probably the gist of it.

 

[spiketbear]

Vader came back a few years ago as one of Coach's henchmen to attack someone. I don't remember. But he embarrassingly fell off the ring. That was the end of that.

 

[JBK2008]

Vader wasn't one of Vince's guys for one and 2 he was pushing HBK and he needed a big name for Shawn to beat. Not many of "outsiders" got far in the WWE. Vader had a nice short run, but as expected, didn't go far.

 

[DigitalNight]

It was nice seeing him on the Staff of the "Tough Enough 4" I believe it was. I've always liked the bigger guys who could still move around the ring (Bam Bam, Boss Man in his Heavier days, Pogo The Clown etc.)

As far as Vader not being a product of Vince Jr, it really showed. Vader repeatedly got sandbagged by wrestlers during his stint in WWE and didn't complain. I bet if he had, he would have had his bags waiting for him outside of the current hotel they were staying at.

Anytime I see a trekkie do the "Vulcan Symbol," I always think it's Vader Time. Glad I don't act on it every time, you all would have to bail me out of jail. Muahaha.

 

[byrnside]

Definitely a shame Vader never made it huge in the WWE. His feud with Yokozuna could've been something big and his feud with Kane shoud've been twice what it was. I thought his title match with HBK at Summerslam '96 was pretty good. I guess he had two strikes against him when he signed on with the company and his trouble in Kuwait was the 3rd strike and after that it was job city for the Mastadon. Shame though. I'm not sure how old he is, but I'd like to see him back in a WWE ring again, even for a brief run.

 

[samboisdead]

I can pretty much answer this one for you as I have a good friend that wrestles and he actually worked Vader. This was back when jobbers where still brought in for t.v. and of course my friend was the jobber. Vader pummeled him, he couldnt get out of bed for like two weeks. After this we found out Vader had a reputation for this and liked to hurt people. Not just jobbers he was pretty rough with top stars as well. So their you go not many guys would want to work with him. Their is your first reason Vader failed. On to reason two.

The next reason I dont no if you followed backstage antics back then but before Vader left WCW apparently Paul Orndorf kicked his ass pretty bad in a backstage fight. Alot of fans and people new about this so I imagine it was alot harder to market him as the beast after the public found out about this. Not that Orndorf isnt a tough guy just at the time he was playing a very sissy charchter on t.v.. This is back when he went to the ring with a mirror all the time.

Next was the incident in Kuwait when he beat up a t.v. talk show guy. WWE got lawsuits and alot of bad press for this. So I imagine this hurt him alot backstage. Also after the job he did in WCW to Hogan it wouldnt have looked to great to build him into an unbeatable beast in WWE when old man Hogan pummeled him in WCW. After the Clash when he ripped his pants in the middle of the ring I actually thought that would be the end of him. I loved Vader especially when he used to wear that big helmet to the ring, but after the pants ripping thing I couldnt watch him without laughing. He headlined tons of big events, was a multiple time champion, and really did some great work when he had Harley Race as his manager. He really fit in well with WCW and probably should have found a way to stay with them. If anyone dropped the ball with Vader it was WCW with the Hogan/Vader fued. When it first started i thought it was going to be Hogans biggest fued ever. I rember Hogan in the ring, Vader had him in a bear hug, and hulk was screaming to Jimmy hart about how vader was to strong for him. I thought that was great but next thing you no Hogan crushed him.

 

[TheBestThereNevaWas]

Sambo pretty much nailed it on the head. Foley mentioned how guys would literally cry when they found out they'd have to face Vader. I remember in WOW magazine (way back in the day) Vader talked about Hogan no-selling the Vader bomb during an encounter to hype up their upcoming fued. Then Luger, the day after bailing on WWF, coming to WCW the next night and getting the title shot against Hogan ahead of Vader.

Honestly, when I say Hogan just bounce up from the Vader bomb I was disgusted. That move at the time was considered and probably was legitimately one of the most devastating moves in wrestling. Hogan's no-sell totally killed the fear and mystique that was associated with the Vader bomb. Then Vader went to jobbing pathetically to Ric Flair. Just goes to show which wrestlers have the real clout backstage.

I don't recall him using it in WWF. It's like they banned him from using it. I thought his last match was with Edge. I remember Edge beating him by a face plant. Edge had to pull him by his mask to do the move. The match was dreadful. Vader said that the WWF told him to scare or rough up the reporter. Maybe he went too far.

It's a shame he didn't make it big in the WWF. But in a way, it's his own fault. You have to protect your opponent not deliberately injure them to sell yourself. Mind you, I was a big Vader mark and really wanted him to wreck havoc through the WWF.

 

[Nature Boy]

It's an interesting topic.

I loved Vader and I really loved his intense feuds with Sting, Ron Simmons, Cactus Jack and Dustin Rhodes.

His Starrcade '93 match with Ric Flair is pretty mega as well.

His angle with Hogan was pretty intense, and should have been one of the feuds of 1994/5 (behind Flair/Hgan of course!), but due to both mens unwillingness to loose it was ruined. However, the Steel Cage match they had at the Bash in '95 was really good.

When 1996 rolled around and the WWF came a-calling, I was excited to see him there, but was soon disappointed.

I think the biggest problem he had in the WWF was that he was a New Japan/WCW guy.

Vince didn't create Vader, and wasn't a character vince could really change.

WWF/E drop the ball so often with 'outside guys'.

Occasionally they strike gold with people such as Hogan, Austin, Hennig etc, but the vast majority of the time they either misuse people of create silly characters for them.

Dusty was used horribly, Booker T was used horribly.

Also, I think that Vader had maybe become somewhat disheartned during his WWF run as well.

He should have been at the top of the card pretty much all the time.

He at least should have been given a title run.

Ok he faught Bret Hart, Michaels and the Undertaker and they were great matches, but he was wasted in the WWF.

 

[PEP3]

Vader is a personal favorite of mine, so the way he was misused by WWF was simply criminal in my mind! Never has a performer come to Stamford so perfectly pre-packaged for a monster heel run as Leon White, but somehow the WWF still dropped the ball on this one. Of course, looking at things analytically, I can somewhat see how McMahon might have felt little choice but to keep Vader's success limited.

Most of the reasons for Vader's lack of achievement in WWF are already documented in this thread. He did work notoriously stiff. He did have behind-the-scenes heat as the result of some poor choices overseas. In fact, he goes so far as to say he was booked to win the Intercontinental title after returning from Kuwait, but that decision was erased in the wake of his international incident. All in all, these only served to compound an already dicey situation once Vader landed in McMahon-Land.

Vader, I should point out, is a heel in the classic WWF sense of the word. Like some of McMahon's biggest monster heels -- Earthquake, King Kong Bundy, etc. -- Vader's huge, agile and easily able to dominate and crush opponents, looking invincible in the process. While I could have seen him getting a massive push had he been around during Hogan's WWF heyday, he also made the perfect opposition for Shawn Michaels. Remember, Michaels was frequently booked as something of an under-dog in his feuds as WWF champion.

So to that end, Vader was booked into what could have been a classic for the WWF championship. Yet for as impervious to pain as Vader appeared, WWF still couldn't risk booking him over their home-grown talent.

And, historically speaking, this wasn't uncommon for superstars entering the WWF. For those wrestlers who proved lucky enough to not have their entire career before-hand conveniently forgotten when they arrived in WWF, very few were ever allowed to accomplish the heights they'd achieved elsewhere. It was WWF's way of proving their talent was superior to any place else on earth.

This was subsiding when Vader finally arrived in WWF, of course, but it wasn't gone. Remember, Vader had just come from WCW, where he'd come up short against Ric Flair, Dustin Rhodes and, yes, Hulk Hogan. To put Vader over Michaels would imply that any of the opposition's performers who'd beaten Vader before his WWF debut could also, therefore, beat Michaels.

It was something McMahon would have no part of, though having Vader take the belt and having Michaels chase and, ultimately, regain it might have been even MORE exciting. After Michaels, it really was all downhill for Vader. The rest of his WWF tenure is fairly forgettable, as witnessed by the fact that I barely remember it.

It's a shame, really, because Vader was an amazing performer. That he never held even a single title in the Federation seems like an incredible waste. I don't think you'll get much argument from most of us. We (nearly) all wanted him shine in WWF, but it just wasn't meant to be.

 

[dxfan78]

I think that Vader's biggest roadblock in making to the top of the WWF is that he didn't have a really big mic persona. I was a fan of Vader back in the day. I think that the WWF was moving from managers making promos to the actual wrestlers making promos. I think that Yokozuna was the last wrestler to not have a good mic presence to actually hold the championship. Kane did it in 98 but he only held it for a day.