Who is holding a grudge against Bray Wyatt?

[Radical]

The 29 year old Bray Wyatt just lost to the 49 year old Kane. Yes, big assist to the 36 year old Randy Orton, but he came out hobbling with a huge bandage on his ankle and still managed to deliver an RKO!

I mean if this isn't the textbook definition of buried, I'd be hard to find a better example in the modern era.

Bray Wyatt hasn't got a chance to win a THING in WWE. He started pretty good with the Wyatt Family and yes, they did get the big win over The Shield, I think it was back at Elimination Chamber like 2 years ago. But since then Wyatt has really not every got a single big win that turned into anything. His PPV win-loss ratio is atrocious and I can't figure out why WWE would do this to him unless someone backstage really holds a grudge against the man for something.

Bray Wyatt is a guy who has a unique character and an OUTSTANDING ability to talk on the mic and with that comes a certain level of charisma. He's solid in the ring as well.

But now look what's happening. His ability to talk and be charismatic on the mic only goes so far.

What he is right now is the guy who SAYS a bunch of 'scary stuff' and then always leads to empty threats.

So even the littlest kid to the oldest adult the NEXT time Wyatt goes on the mic is just gonna be thinking "Well, yadda yadda yadda Bray, who cares what you say because all that will happen is you will lose".

At this point, honestly, Bray's actual brother Bo Dallas has more credibility as a heel since he's just recently shown a mean streak and if he wins his next feud then he will have even MORE heel cred than Bray even though Bray has been heel since he came in to WWE.

Aside from a blinded Kane-fanatic troll who will likely respond and give reasons why 49 year old Kane should be pushed to the moon and Bray Wyatt sucks, here are some questions for the level-headed people to respond to:

What can be done with Bray Wyatt now? Is he done? WWE might as well just release him because they buried him to the ground like Sandow (or worse!)?

WHO did Bray Wyatt piss off to get such a poor chance at credibility and success in WWE for WWE?

 

[Azane]

Kane keeps his monster streak going by winning.
Randy Orton "Wins" and keeps his momentum when he comes back healthy to face Bray again.
Bray has to be double teamed by Randy and Kane to lose, making him look strong.


It's really the best booking they could of done in this situation, it made all 3 men look stronger.

Wins/Losses aren't the only thing making people look strong/weak, it's the story told within the ring.

The thing about Bray, is he's the ultimate jobber, because he can lose for 4 years straight, and still look good, it's just his talent, and something I've accepted as someone who enjoys his work.

But ya, he lost a match, hes buried forever, blah blah blah. See you next ppv cycle when he loses again, and still looks strong doing it.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

He lost by an RKO by Orton. Where's the problem?

 

[Hard Hit Prince]

I've seen Bray vs. Kane a countless amount of times. It wasn't above average then, it isn't now. More so, WWE didn't even mention once their former rivalries to try and explain why they did it.

The problem with this match to me isn't the quality of the match that they could've produced or even the outcome as much as the interest in it. Who in the blue hell wanted to see this match? It was hard enough for some to care about Orton vs. Wyatt which is a fresh match up, so why would they care for this one?

It was just a piss breaker decision to don't give a crap about it. Apollo Crews vs. Bray Wyatt could've been a more interesting match than Kane vs. Wyatt. It could've been the exact same crap we had, but at least, it would've been a different guy getting a needed win with Orton's help.

But bad place to talk about this. People on WZ actually thought the idea was genius or "you were never getting anything better and I'm used to lazy booking so therefore I can't complain".

 

[Darkshadow1234]

I've seen Bray vs. Kane a countless amount of times. It wasn't above average then, it isn't now. More so, WWE didn't even mention once their former rivalries to try and explain why they did it.

The problem with this match to me isn't the quality of the match that they could've produced or even the outcome as much as the interest in it. Who in the blue hell wanted to see this match? It was hard enough for some to care about Orton vs. Wyatt which is a fresh match up, so why would they care for this one?

It was just a piss breaker decision to don't give a crap about it. Apollo Crews vs. Bray Wyatt could've been a more interesting match than Kane vs. Wyatt. It could've been the exact same crap we had, but at least, it would've been a different guy getting a needed win with Orton's help.

But bad place to talk about this. People on WZ actually thought the idea was genius or "you were never getting anything better and I'm used to lazy booking so therefore I can't complain".

You are so right. That was stupid to have kane vs wyatt. No build up. No nothing. Just a random match put together. People wonder why wwe is garbage now. WWE hasnt been good since 2000.
The booking is horrible. And the writing is too.

The problem with wrestling in general is that wins/losses dont matter. Wins and losses should matter. If it doesnt matter, then what is the point of wrestling or investing in a character.
Who wants to invest in a character that loses all the time. Who is gonna take a wrestler seriously if they lose all the time.
If a wrestler constantly loses. Your credibility is gone.
That's fact.
WWE is very guilty of this. Only reason they do this is bc their writing is horrible.

Nothing in wwe makes sense no more.

 

[therockiswwf]

He lost by an RKO by Orton. Where's the problem?

When is the last time Bray Wyatt won a big match? When is the last time he won a big feud? Why not have Bray win then get RKO'ed?

Bray keeps losing and losing. Clean or not, this has to stop. Ryback was white hot for awhile and then immediately went on a giant losing streak. Killed his momentum. Wyatt can be something special but is not positioned right. His booking is confusing.

You are so right. That was stupid to have kane vs wyatt. No build up. No nothing. Just a random match put together. People wonder why wwe is garbage now. WWE hasnt been good since 2000.
The booking is horrible. And the writing is too.

The problem with wrestling in general is that wins/losses dont matter. Wins and losses should matter. If it doesnt matter, then what is the point of wrestling or investing in a character.
Who wants to invest in a character that loses all the time. Who is gonna take a wrestler seriously if they lose all the time.
If a wrestler constantly loses. Your credibility is gone.
That's fact.
WWE is very guilty of this. Only reason they do this is bc their writing is horrible.

Nothing in wwe makes sense no more.

While I don't agree that they have not been good since 2000, the wins and losses not mattering to them is a big problem. A recent example is AJ getting in a #1 contenders match after WM 32. He lost the night before. Jericho, who won at WM, was also in that match. They tried to hide AJ losing at Mania by making him win the #1 contenders match. Which is really dumb. AJ should not have been in that match. He should be punished for losing. Instead they just hope people forget. Little things like that just annoy the crap put of me.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I mean if this isn't the textbook definition of buried, I'd be hard to find a better example in the modern era.

I can think of dozens. You know, all those wrestlers who don't even make it on TV, let alone a PPV match against one of the bigger guys in the company. It's not anyone's fault that wrestler just happened to get injured right before their match.

Could they have handled the situation better? Probably. But don't be one of those posters who throws out the term buried when it's not even close to applicable. Everything you say beyond that point isn't worth reading.

 

[Spencesc11]

Wyatt Family was at it's peak during it's feud with The Shield and then all of sudden the Shield diverted to Evolution and the Wyatt Family has been on the backburner ever since. Bray gives great promos but looks much better when he has his whole group. They should move him back to Raw to re-start the feud with New Day.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic A.C.I.D.]

When is the last time Bray Wyatt won a big match?

Bray has been missing from TV from April to July. They gave the New Day a very clean beating as far as I remember. He wasn't on the Wrestlemania card and he was there to face Rock and Cena. He should have at least hit a Sister Abigail to the Rock, before Cena makes the save.

Then Bray has won feuds against Ambrose, Y2J, Kane and he has lost feuds against Cena, Undertaker and Roman Reigns. Bray gets one of the strongest booking in the show, he barely ever loses to midcarders and he always beats them.

For me, what Bray needs right now, is not to win a big match, but to win a big feud and then finally get into the main event picture, where he deserves to be.

I mean, Bray Wyatt would have been THE top guy on RAW, but on SD, there's Ambrose, Styles, Cena and Orton ahead of him.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

The 29 year old Bray Wyatt just lost to the 49 year old Kane. Yes, big assist to the 36 year old Randy Orton, but he came out hobbling with a huge bandage on his ankle and still managed to deliver an RKO!

Yes, and 39 year old AJ Styles just "burried" 30 year old Dean Ambrose.Talk about discriminitaion against younger people. Please dont use years when you are explaining something.

I mean if this isn't the textbook definition of buried, I'd be hard to find a better example in the modern era.

Lots of people are in far more worst condition even right now. He got a match against two WWE Legends and lost for the sake of the storyline, because Orton needed to come out as "strong" after it.

Bray Wyatt hasn't got a chance to win a THING in WWE. He started pretty good with the Wyatt Family and yes, they did get the big win over The Shield, I think it was back at Elimination Chamber like 2 years ago. But since then Wyatt has really not every got a single big win that turned into anything. His PPV win-loss ratio is atrocious and I can't figure out why WWE would do this to him unless someone backstage really holds a grudge against the man for something.

In his career he got winning against Shield, win against Cena, winning against Bryan in his prime at that controversial Rumble and winning against Roman before his run as a Champion. Its far lot more then lots of superstars today have.

Bray Wyatt is a guy who has a unique character and an OUTSTANDING ability to talk on the mic and with that comes a certain level of charisma. He's solid in the ring as well.

Yes, I agree, his nonsensical boring promos can take him so far before WWE realises that he isnt anything special in ring or at promo work.

But now look what's happening. His ability to talk and be charismatic on the mic only goes so far.

Yes, and evidently took him so far that he is used to elevate bigger superstars. Nothing wrong with that.

So even the littlest kid to the oldest adult the NEXT time Wyatt goes on the mic is just gonna be thinking "Well, yadda yadda yadda Bray, who cares what you say because all that will happen is you will lose".

I think most of them are thinking "What is this guy even saying and why is that rellevant". Which isnt WWEs booking fault but Brays.

What he is right now is the guy who SAYS a bunch of 'scary stuff' and then always leads to empty threats.

He was always like that. His whole gimmick is "attack random superstar with far more starpower then me, score some win and lose at the end".

At this point, honestly, Bray's actual brother Bo Dallas has more credibility as a heel since he's just recently shown a mean streak and if he wins his next feud then he will have even MORE heel cred than Bray even though Bray has been heel since he came in to WWE.

Yeah, no. Guy who is barely on TV doesnt got more credibility then guy who is feutured at big match at PPV even if he loses. Except offcourse Brock Lesnar, but he is special attraction.

What can be done with Bray Wyatt now? Is he done? WWE might as well just release him because they buried him to the ground like Sandow (or worse!)?

Again, no. He will have a win against Kane, have a bout with Orton and lose at the end. Which is fine, again, his own ability has take him only that far for now. If he improves then maybe in the future he becomes more then someone who makes bigger stars look strong.

WHO did Bray Wyatt piss off to get such a poor chance at credibility and success in WWE for WWE?

Nobody. He is just where he needs to be based on his abilities.

 

[Radical]

Could they have handled the situation better? Probably. But don't be one of those posters who throws out the term buried when it's not even close to applicable. Everything you say beyond that point isn't worth reading.

Ok, so if I don't want to throw around that term buried, because apparently it is supposed to be reserved for like the rarest of occasions where some wrestler gets brought up, has a bit of a push and then loses in 10 seconds to Bo Dallas and is never heard from again. I guess that is the textbook definition of "buried" but that doesn't really even happen anymore so I guess let's just retire that word then from the urban wrestling dictionary?

Now what word can we use to describe the NUMEROUS situations where WWE Creative makes a series of poor and confusing booking decisions where a promising star gets handed spot after spot where they look foolish and weak or aren't given a great opportunity to be built up as a credible threat? What word should we use for that situation?


It's not like WWE hasn't clearly put a damper on a potentially huge talent development angle, not because the talent isn't capable or have good crowd reactions but simply because some guy backstage doesn't like the talent they will keep them from developing further because of some sort of personal grudge.



Wins and losses DO matter, especially when a charismatic, supposed-to-be creepy and dangerous heel keeps making claims of victory and destruction on opponents but it consistently ends up as an empty threat.

NOT only that but when Wyatt loses there is rarely anything more added to the feud or story. It just stops cold. Ok. Bray lost. Good guy won.

Bray moves on to the next guy randomly for no good reason and talks a bunch of rhymes and riddles in his rocking chair and gets defeated at the PPV.


I believe Bray Wyatt was right when he said in an interview that WWE doesn't really understand Bray and what he is and what he can do. That's why he hasn't won any titles, he hasn't won any big matches or got on a real big roll because Creative doesn't understand how to use Bray Wyatt.

Obviously Vince is not sure how to use Bray Wyatt other than exactly what someone else said which is like a 'ultimate jobber'. The heel who just goes out and for 4 weeks attacks, cuts promos in his rocking chair, gets attacked back and loses at the PPV to the babyface. That's all Vince has used Bray for and there's always hope he'll change but not wise to hold your breath over that.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

Ok, so if I don't want to throw around that term buried, because apparently it is supposed to be reserved for like the rarest of occasions where some wrestler gets brought up, has a bit of a push and then loses in 10 seconds to Bo Dallas and is never heard from again. I guess that is the textbook definition of "buried" but that doesn't really even happen anymore so I guess let's just retire that word then from the urban wrestling dictionary?

You're still wrong. But it's funny you use Bo Dallas as an example on the other side of being buried when he'd be a prime example. His recent showing is his first on something other than Main Event or Superstars in how long? It's really that simple. You're just making it complicated. Ascension is a great example. Ryder for a long time until his recent resurgence. What's so hard about this?

Now what word can we use to describe the NUMEROUS situations where WWE Creative makes a series of poor and confusing booking decisions where a promising star gets handed spot after spot where they look foolish and weak or aren't given a great opportunity to be built up as a credible threat? What word should we use for that situation?

Uh...what you described it? There's no single word to describe what you would consider poor booking decisions. You could describe creative using one word. Idiots. Stupid. I mean, pick your adjective. It really isn't complicated at all.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

Hyperbole! Look up that word.

People don't understand the definition of the term buried. You don't lose PPV matches due to outside interference when you're being buried. Zack Ryder 2012, that's a burial. Damien Sandow 2015, that's another example of a burial.

You're left off of TV and PPV altogether. A burial is the process of removing all interest and stripping a character of their crowd reaction. Losses aren't burials, they're losses. Sometimes losses precede burials, but not always. Wrestling has winners and losers, if every loser was buried, we wouldn't be on a wrestling forum right now.

Wyatt losing makes total sense as it forwards the feud with Bray and Randy. Orton screwed Wyatt, therefore keeping Wyatt mad at him. It was a stupid angle thrown together to contribute to the fact they had to write off Orton and delay the match while continuing the feud.

Wyatt is exactly where he should be. He needs to prove he can stay healthy for at least one year before he's ever going to get a significant push. Backlash was booked decently considering the Orton injury.

 

[d_henderson1810]

The 29 year old Bray Wyatt just lost to the 49 year old Kane. Yes, big assist to the 36 year old Randy Orton, but he came out hobbling with a huge bandage on his ankle and still managed to deliver an RKO!

I mean if this isn't the textbook definition of buried, I'd be hard to find a better example in the modern era.

Bray Wyatt hasn't got a chance to win a THING in WWE. He started pretty good with the Wyatt Family and yes, they did get the big win over The Shield, I think it was back at Elimination Chamber like 2 years ago. But since then Wyatt has really not every got a single big win that turned into anything. His PPV win-loss ratio is atrocious and I can't figure out why WWE would do this to him unless someone backstage really holds a grudge against the man for something.

Bray Wyatt is a guy who has a unique character and an OUTSTANDING ability to talk on the mic and with that comes a certain level of charisma. He's solid in the ring as well.

But now look what's happening. His ability to talk and be charismatic on the mic only goes so far.

What he is right now is the guy who SAYS a bunch of 'scary stuff' and then always leads to empty threats.

So even the littlest kid to the oldest adult the NEXT time Wyatt goes on the mic is just gonna be thinking "Well, yadda yadda yadda Bray, who cares what you say because all that will happen is you will lose".

At this point, honestly, Bray's actual brother Bo Dallas has more credibility as a heel since he's just recently shown a mean streak and if he wins his next feud then he will have even MORE heel cred than Bray even though Bray has been heel since he came in to WWE.

Aside from a blinded Kane-fanatic troll who will likely respond and give reasons why 49 year old Kane should be pushed to the moon and Bray Wyatt sucks, here are some questions for the level-headed people to respond to:

What can be done with Bray Wyatt now? Is he done? WWE might as well just release him because they buried him to the ground like Sandow (or worse!)?

WHO did Bray Wyatt piss off to get such a poor chance at credibility and success in WWE for WWE?

One word that should be removed from the IWC wresrling vernacular is "buried", unless talking about "Buried Alive" matches.

Firstly, should everyone have a Brock Lesnar-like "Mary Sue" winning streak? In most matches you need a winner, and a loser.

1) Randy Orton is injured (yet again), so they either not have a match, and fill the PPV time, or have an alternate opponent. Randy Orton v Bray wasn't going to happen.

2) Kane beat Bray, BUT WITH RANDY ORTON'S HELP. It wasn't like it was clean as a sheet. So, Orton costing Bray the match was to further the angle between them (Orton cost Bray victory, after Bray injured Orton). It is to create heat.

If Kane had beaten Bray with a chokeslam, and Orton hadn't got involved, you would have a case. But that isn't the case here.

3) Kane wasn't pushed to the moon. He was a pawn in furthering the Orton v Bray feud.

4) Do you want the same people to win all the time, and make matches predictable, because you always know who will win any match?

5) So, you use the word "buried" when someone loses. Now, do you want parity booking, where everyone wins, but no-one looks stronger? Or do you want certain people to always beat others? Do you want NXT talent to ALWAYS beat veterans like Cena or Orton?

6) Let's go through some of Bray's feuds.

Daniel Bryan:- He beat Bryan at RR 2014, and people screamed that Bryan was getting buried.

John Cena- Yes, Bray should have won at WMXXX. I think Bray should have won the first two matches, and Cena win the "blowoff" match.

Dean Ambrose- Read this carefully. Bray won EVERY match against the two of them during their feud (their TLC match, the Ambulance Match etc). People said that Dean Ambrose was getting buried.

The Undertaker- Wrestlemania XXXI- Taker wasn't going to lose a second 'Mania match. Now, I think Bray would have been perfect to finally end the Streak (as a "passing of the torch") but Vince decided to waste the Streak being broken by Brock Lesnar instead.

Bray has also had some injuries, which has kept him out of the ring for most of this year. So, it is a bit hard to win matches and elevate yourself when you are injured.

Someone being buried falls on deaf ears with me. Most here moan and complain when their faves don't win every match, don't hold the WWE Title every week. Everyone wants their faves to be "Mary Sues", like Brock is being portrayed (I find Brock Lesnar's winning streak the most boring thing in wrestling).

So, does Bray Wyatt have to win EVERY match for you to believe in him? If you don't like how Bray is booked, then follow someone else. I doubt Bray Wyatt's booking is helped or hindered by what you individually think.

 

[d_henderson1810]

You are so right. That was stupid to have kane vs wyatt. No build up. No nothing. Just a random match put together. People wonder why wwe is garbage now. WWE hasnt been good since 2000.
The booking is horrible. And the writing is too.

The problem with wrestling in general is that wins/losses dont matter. Wins and losses should matter. If it doesnt matter, then what is the point of wrestling or investing in a character.
Who wants to invest in a character that loses all the time. Who is gonna take a wrestler seriously if they lose all the time.
If a wrestler constantly loses. Your credibility is gone.
That's fact.
WWE is very guilty of this. Only reason they do this is bc their writing is horrible.

Nothing in wwe makes sense no more.

If you don't like WWE, then watch something else.

Results are predetermined. So wins and losses don't matter as much as in normal sporting contests. Wins and losses are determined by furthering the feud, to keep a feud going, to create heat, to switch titles (someone may drop a title to someone else, because they have to take time off to have surgery, for example). Politics, where some people refuse to lose to others, or put others over, also plays a part in this.

Go watch TNA, ROH or someone else if you don't like WWE. You won't be missed.

 

[d_henderson1810]

When is the last time Bray Wyatt won a big match? When is the last time he won a big feud? Why not have Bray win then get RKO'ed?

Bray keeps losing and losing. Clean or not, this has to stop. Ryback was white hot for awhile and then immediately went on a giant losing streak. Killed his momentum. Wyatt can be something special but is not positioned right. His booking is confusing.



While I don't agree that they have not been good since 2000, the wins and losses not mattering to them is a big problem. A recent example is AJ getting in a #1 contenders match after WM 32. He lost the night before. Jericho, who won at WM, was also in that match. They tried to hide AJ losing at Mania by making him win the #1 contenders match. Which is really dumb. AJ should not have been in that match. He should be punished for losing. Instead they just hope people forget. Little things like that just annoy the crap put of me.

So how did you feel back at MW3, when Ricky Steamboat beat "Macho Man" for the IC belt, clean. Yet it was Savage who was WWF World Champion a year later, and his career went from strength to strength, while Steamboat jobbed to the joke called the Honky Tonk Man? Savage lost, and yet ended up the winner.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Bray isn't being buried... indeed he is being rebuilt right now and the Orton feud was meant to do that but now that seems to be in jeopardy thanks to RKO's inability to stay healthy more than a week.

That being said there IS a possibility this was a punishment, but not in how you think.

Bo Dallas, Bray's brother recently got into some trouble on an airplane. Now Bo picked up a win this week, likely because they already had plans for him... but they perhaps decided to send a message to the roster by having Bray lose this match... Remember Trips was famously the guy punished for other's ideas/transgressions in the Curtain Call so it's not beyond the realms that Bray "takes one...but only one" and resumes the feud after a win over Kane next week.

Only reason I think it's REMOTELY a possibility is cos the last time the forfiet/loss was really used was Shane Douglas, who DID have heat with The Kliq.

This could equally be a way to get BO into the fold with Bray... The Wyatt Family for reals...

One thing is for sure, for whatever reason, Bray is not being considered that top level guy... likely due to his injury record. That being said he is one of the few to offer something truly different so they're not gonna be letting him go anytime soon. Whether he gets pissed off and wants to go ala Barrett is another matter.

 

[therockiswwf]

So how did you feel back at MW3, when Ricky Steamboat beat "Macho Man" for the IC belt, clean. Yet it was Savage who was WWF World Champion a year later, and his career went from strength to strength, while Steamboat jobbed to the joke called the Honky Tonk Man? Savage lost, and yet ended up the winner.

I'm fine with this situation. Steamboat got punished so that explains his loss. Savage took a full year to become champion. At some point you have to lose the midcard title if you want to become the WWE champion.

I'm assuming this is in response to the AJ/Jericho part of my post. If not then my mistake. The problem I had with AJ and Jericho was they both got put into a #1 contender for the WWE title match one day after Jericho beat AJ. AJ didn't get punished for the loss at all. Jericho didn't gain anything by winning. It made their match result meaningless.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

You're forgetting that Savage's title win was nothing to do with Steamboat... it was to do with Honky refusing to drop the strap to Savage... so they put the big belt on him instead and Honky got squashed at Summerslam as punishment.

Bray is nowhere near that situation, at worst case he's been hurt once too often for a big push and his bro screwed up so they're sending a message to the boys by proxy... neither are terminal to his career unless he makes it so...

 

[kadroan]

He lost by an RKO by Orton. Where's the problem?

I would have preferred to see Bray get the win over Kane. Then, Orton comes out and hit the RKO on Bray.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I'm fine with this situation. Steamboat got punished so that explains his loss. Savage took a full year to become champion. At some point you have to lose the midcard title if you want to become the WWE champion.

I'm assuming this is in response to the AJ/Jericho part of my post. If not then my mistake. The problem I had with AJ and Jericho was they both got put into a #1 contender for the WWE title match one day after Jericho beat AJ. AJ didn't get punished for the loss at all. Jericho didn't gain anything by winning. It made their match result meaningless.

Why should Steamboat get punished for wanting to see his son be born? They could have taken the belt off him and then put it back on him when he returned. He didn't even get a rematch against Honky Tonk Man, for crying out loud, and in fact, got buried, all because Vince doesn't understand the concept of things like the birth of your child maybe being a more important moment than wrestling 365 days of the year. He shouldn't be punished because Vince feels guilty for skipping Shane and Stephanie's births because he can't take time away from WWE for one day.

Besides, Shawn Michaels was allowed paternity leave years later, and got it, and didn't get punished when he came back.

Point is, the guy who won ultimately lost, and got buried. The person who lost that match got promoted, main evented the next two Wrestlemanias for the title, and became one of the most promoted talents in WWE history. A loss didn't hurt Savage, but he thrived instead, and a win didn't help Steamboat, and in fact made him a joke, losing to an Elvis impersonator (and IMO, the worst in-ring talent in WWE history), getting no rematch and being out of the title picture, had to go to WCW to get pushed, and then when he came back to WWE had to dress as a dragon and breath fire (Yeah, that screams "Main Event" right there).

A.J. lost to Jericho, and has since feuded with Reigns, beat Cena clean, and has won the WWE Title. Losing didn't hurt him. Whereas Jericho has had mid-card feuds, and had to take thumbtacks.

 

[therockiswwf]

Why should Steamboat get punished for wanting to see his son be born? They could have taken the belt off him and then put it back on him when he returned. He didn't even get a rematch against Honky Tonk Man, for crying out loud, and in fact, got buried, all because Vince doesn't understand the concept of things like the birth of your child maybe being a more important moment than wrestling 365 days of the year. He shouldn't be punished because Vince feels guilty for skipping Shane and Stephanie's births because he can't take time away from WWE for one day.

Besides, Shawn Michaels was allowed paternity leave years later, and got it, and didn't get punished when he came back.

Point is, the guy who won ultimately lost, and got buried. The person who lost that match got promoted, main evented the next two Wrestlemanias for the title, and became one of the most promoted talents in WWE history. A loss didn't hurt Savage, but he thrived instead, and a win didn't help Steamboat, and in fact made him a joke, losing to an Elvis impersonator (and IMO, the worst in-ring talent in WWE history), getting no rematch and being out of the title picture, had to go to WCW to get pushed, and then when he came back to WWE had to dress as a dragon and breath fire (Yeah, that screams "Main Event" right there).

A.J. lost to Jericho, and has since feuded with Reigns, beat Cena clean, and has won the WWE Title. Losing didn't hurt him. Whereas Jericho has had mid-card feuds, and had to take thumbtacks.

I didn't say I agreed with punishing Steamboat. I said it made sense that they made a guy they were punishing lose to a joke. It is shitty what they did to Steamboat.

You missed my point about AJ and Jericho entirely. There is a HUGE difference between one day and a full year. My point about AJ and Jericho was they both got put into an important match with a prize ONE DAY after Jericho beat AJ. They both got the same reward. That made Jericho's win meaningless since it meant nothing that AJ lost. I'm not saying AJ should not get anything for a year. He lost, so he doesn't get to go into a match with the guy that beat him ONE DAY later. Or make AJ have to beat someone to get into the match. Not just oh you get to be in it as well because whatever, who cares about wins and losses.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I didn't say I agreed with punishing Steamboat. I said it made sense that they made a guy they were punishing lose to a joke. It is shitty what they did to Steamboat.

You missed my point about AJ and Jericho entirely. There is a HUGE difference between one day and a full year. My point about AJ and Jericho was they both got put into an important match with a prize ONE DAY after Jericho beat AJ. They both got the same reward. That made Jericho's win meaningless since it meant nothing that AJ lost. I'm not saying AJ should not get anything for a year. He lost, so he doesn't get to go into a match with the guy that beat him ONE DAY later. Or make AJ have to beat someone to get into the match. Not just oh you get to be in it as well because whatever, who cares about wins and losses.

I agree with Styles and Jericho. Styles should have won because he got a title shot the next night, and Jericho feuded with Ambrose.

If you are talking about wins meaning something, I am surprised that you didn't mention how Shane McMahon LOST to Undertaker in HIAC at WM32, yet still got to run RAW, and is now running SD, when, by rights, Vince would have fired Shane for losing, and stop him ever taking over RAW. Shane running the show made his match at WM32 useless (he shouldn't have fought Undertaker anyway at the biggest show of the year. Taker deserves better than a non-worker at WM).

 

[Isaac Kaye]

If you don't like WWE, then watch something else.

Results are predetermined. So wins and losses don't matter as much as in normal sporting contests. Wins and losses are determined by furthering the feud, to keep a feud going, to create heat, to switch titles (someone may drop a title to someone else, because they have to take time off to have surgery, for example). Politics, where some people refuse to lose to others, or put others over, also plays a part in this.

Go watch TNA, ROH or someone else if you don't like WWE. You won't be missed.

Interesting point you raise here about wins and losses...

I watched this match and felt like the outcome made sense - Bray losing due to outside interference to continue the feud. I was listening the MLW podcast last night and they were talking a lot about this match and how WWE booking at the moment doesn't focus 'enough' on wins and losses - resulting in us not caring enough about who wins when the payoff match actually comes around?

It's an interesting observation. A lot of people talk about Bray losing a lot, but that he makes up for this by always looking good. I'm of the opinion that wins and losses aren't so important (especially if they look strong) but they do mean 'something', and people do remember. I think Ambrose mentioned in a promo just before Backlash that he has beaten Styles in their last match - and therefore that counts for something.

You can't get away from the reality that neither Orton or Bray are coming into this feud with any wins under their belt at all.

 

[Radical]

You're still wrong. But it's funny you use Bo Dallas as an example on the other side of being buried when he'd be a prime example. His recent showing is his first on something other than Main Event or Superstars in how long? It's really that simple. You're just making it complicated. Ascension is a great example. Ryder for a long time until his recent resurgence. What's so hard about this?

I'm not wrong. I just explained it. You seem to have just missed it or not understood correctly.

Yes, very good, sir. Ascension and Ryder are good examples.

Anyway, even though I know what the term buried actually means in pro wrestling it's fun to use it out of context just to get a fiery reaction out of those who take it very seriously.

Interesting point you raise here about wins and losses...

It's an interesting observation. A lot of people talk about Bray losing a lot, but that he makes up for this by always looking good. I'm of the opinion that wins and losses aren't so important (especially if they look strong) but they do mean 'something', and people do remember. I think Ambrose mentioned in a promo just before Backlash that he has beaten Styles in their last match - and therefore that counts for something.

You can't get away from the reality that neither Orton or Bray are coming into this feud with any wins under their belt at all.

This is my main concern about Bray Wyatt's many losses.

You say he makes up for it by always looking good. I'll give you that based on crowd participation and reaction he hasn't suffered tremendously with all the big losses but I'm certain he hasn't gained much more credibility in the eyes of fans. Even a 6 year old who has been watching for a year would see that Bray Wyatt may appear creepy and intimidating at first but when it comes down to it he ends up losing and isn't so scary anymore.

If this feud with Orton (and maybe Kane) continues then that's probably good because Wyatt will likely get some big attacks in but it seems like it will be shortly Orton who comes out on top again because they don't want Orton looking weak if they want to have him face Brock again later.

SO, while wins and losses may not mean everything, there is clearly a point when they DO matter and there's just no way a character that WWE might want to be profitable for them can survive many more years if they don't "achieve" any significant milestones.

Simple things like if Bray Wyatt lead Harper & Rowan on a strong tag title reign or if he won the US or IC titles and ran with them for a little while or if he had some more OMG Moments, maybe a even more hardcore backstage brawl than the one he did on Orton. Something significant that the commentators could call back to when needed to remind people about how dangerous he is rather than just saying "oh he's creepy!"