What Last Night Confirmed To Me (Or: An Unpopular Opinion On Bayley)

[Wildcat66]

You've probably guessed by now that I have some different tastes when it comes to wrestling. I'm neutral on Jinder Mahal's championship reign, I believe the label of 'injury-prone' is the death of any wrestler wanting to be a major star, I think Jason Jordan can easily be a big name for WWE and the women's match at Battleground I thought was very good amongst other things.

However, there's one opinion I've had, and it's something that many people would hate me for saying. But watching what happened last night with Bayley and the reaction of the crowd, I think now is the perfect time to come out and say it.

Bayley is not and will not be the female John Cena. (And yes, I have seen some of her work in NXT)

Now, what do I mean by this? Well, there are three key differences I think both Bayley and John Cena.

1. Finishers- Now i'm not docking either person for their wrestling ability. Both have shown to be good, capable workers for the company before. But I think we can all agree, the finishers they use are different from each other severely.

John Cena's finishing move is the Attitude Adjustment, or as it's common referred to as a Death Valley Driver. It's a good finisher. Showcases John Cena's strength, creates a good visual and gets a crowd riled up for the end. Bayley on the other hand uses the Bayley-to-Belly, which is really a Belly-to-Belly suplex. I can see the appeal of this move, but to me; it feels extremely generic and kind of makes the opponent look like a chump. Bayley has other moves in her offense and this is the best move she can think of to finish off her opponent? She's even admitted her finisher kind of sucks. I'm not saying that every finisher needs to different and unique, although it helps, but your finisher at least needs to be something that seems threatening enough that it can make opponents look good even when they lose. A simple suplex is not one of those things.

2. Mic Skills- What I mean about this is that I'm looking at them directly in their ability on the stick, the charisma they hold and the overall quality of their acting. John Cena has proven time and time again that he is one of the finest mic workers of his generation, able to go from comedic to serious in the blink of an eye. Ask a fan to name a promo from this guy, you'll likely get a ton of different responses. He's so good, he's even gotten offers from Hollywood. When you have that good of an ability to captivate an audience, you've done your job on the mic.

I've seen Bayley's promo cutting ability not just in WWE but in NXT as well and from what I've seen, she is mediocre at best and really stilted and bad at the worst. This is not something that's come up just recently, this has been a problem her entire career. Going back into 2013, when her career was just beginning. Everyone remembers when she hugged AJ Lee during an interview of her's, she sounded very wooden and a little bit breathy. Going even further back to her presentation skill class, same problems apply here. (Though the part with her in near tears was a nice addition, if I have to be honest) Do you see something wrong here? Bayley is just not very good at cutting promos. It hasn't been a recent issue, this is something that's been plaguing her since day one of her WWE career.

3. Character- This is the deal-breaker for me and also serves as a warning to any and all future NXT call-ups; if you do not evolve, you will be left behind. John Cena started off as the most vanilla babyface this side of Sugartooth Corner, then one night he dressed up as Vanilla Ice and he never looked back. Then after sometime passed, he kept evolving until he became the record tying world champ you see today. You can argue that creative has far from helped Bayley, but even if you're the most die-hard supporter of Bayley, you cannot deny that when you get rid of all the quirks, twists and turns she's had over the years. She's still the same character she was when she started.

Now this is not always a bad thing. Far from it actually, think of all the great characters that have stuck onto a character for long portions of time, (The Undertaker, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Edge, Hulk Hogan, etc) but they didn't just do the same thing over and over again; they evolved their character when they felt it was necessary. Bayley has yet to do so and with a character so mind-numbingly easy and honestly generic to play as, you'd think she'd do something new with it. She did mention in her podcast with Steve Austin, she wanted to try being a heel, why not go up to Vince and ask him to try it out. You are comfortable with talking to him, right?

The point is, for every character in wrestling, there needs to be a moment a character morphs into something different. And you can say that it's called character development, but the difference is that character development is going to happen no matter what. Stories can't happen and characters won't exist if you don't develop them. Evolving your character into something new is something that every wrestler needs to do at some point, it happened with Hulk Hogan, it happened with The Rock, it happened with John Cena, now it's happening with Bayley. And if she doesn't decide to change things up, she'll be thrown away like yesterday's dog food.

Conclusion- I don't know who it was that started this idea that Bayley could be as big as John Cena, but whoever it was; it's clear they set their aspirations too high for her. As much as kids love her to death, and as marketable as she is, it just isn't enough. I'm actually starting to think that the reason for all of Bayley's recent problems is because WWE got cold feet. They realized that she just wasn't performing as well as they thought she would and started wondering if all this talk about her was false or if she was simply overhyped. Again, you can argue that creative did her no favors; but when it comes down to it. Bayley is simply not up to the skill John Cena has been for the last twelve years and it's likely she never will be.

That being said; do I want her to fail? Absolutely not. As I've mentioned before, she is a really good wrestler that has had solid matches with just about everyone, especially with Sasha Banks and Alexa Bliss. And she will be forever idolized for helping to start the women's revolution in WWE. Above all else, Bayley is perhaps amongst the nicest people in the business today and many fans have had good memories of meeting their hero for real. She's a professional's professional and she works hard every-day because that's what she loves to do. I still believe that she will have a good career and that great things will come her way. As far as I know, she could easily become the next Ricky Steamboat or the next Rey Mysterio. Just because something doesn't pan out the way people think it will doesn't mean their career is over; if anything, her career is only beginning. If nothing else, we should be thankful for her work in WWE and what she's done to help make women's wrestling in WWE mean something again.

And that is her greatest contribution to the sport she and all of us love so much.

 

[Jeff Deliverer of Mail]

Man. You are really hung up on Bayley. Seriously. There is some Bayley therapy in your future. But sticking to the topic, she suffers from NXTuberculosis. A condition that some NXT wrestlers have when they don't get half the crowd reaction they did in NXT. She's massively overrated and a lot of that blame is hyped up NXT fans who cheer everything and anything NXT. It's not really a bad thing either, it makes the show fun to watch. But it's not helping the wrestler who was super popular in NXT become nothing on the Main roster when he/she gets no reaction at all.

 

[Wildcat66]

Man. You are really hung up on Bayley. Seriously. There is some Bayley therapy in your future. But sticking to the topic, she suffers from NXTuberculosis. A condition that some NXT wrestlers have when they don't get half the crowd reaction they did in NXT. She's massively overrated and a lot of that blame is hyped up NXT fans who cheer everything and anything NXT. It's not really a bad thing either, it makes the show fun to watch. But it's not helping the wrestler who was super popular in NXT become nothing on the Main roster when he/she gets no reaction at all.

I will admit, Bayley's recent fall from grace has been interesting to cover and watch. But it has also given me a newfound respect for her.

It's things like these that explain why i'm not a watcher of NXT. They build these wrestlers up to be something they aren't and most of the time, they're not going to repeat what they did in NXT. Some actually do better on the main roster than in NXT, such as Braun Strowman, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, even people like Big E. Langston, Becky Lynch and Xavier Woods have had more success on the main roster than in NXT.

 

[OYDK]

Quite simply, the difference between John Cena and Bayley (or at least the biggest difference because there is, in fact, multiple) is that star quality shone out of John Cena from the moment he debuted. Was everything 100% perfect for him from that moment on? Of course not, but everybody remembers the first words he ever spoke in a WWE ring because they were impactful. Everybody remembers him making chicken salad out of chicken shit and becoming the most over guy on the roster playing the character of a Vanilla Ice wannabe. There are some people who clearly have what it takes, call it the IT factor if you want, to be a huge name, even early on in their careers. Then there are those who have to work their asses off over a long period of time just in order to get noticed. Bayley doesn't exude that star quality right off the bat. She doesn't look like a star and more importantly, she doesn't sound like a star. Once her booking became unfaithful to the character she was comfortable playing, she didn't have the skills or the overwhelming charisma to make it work regardless.

I think her biggest problem is that she lacks confidence. And if you don't have the guts or motivation to go balls to the wall and make the most of your opportunities, people are going to see right through you. This incarnation of her character is in trouble, there's no point in denying it. She's still young, and this injury will give her and the audience a much-needed break. She needs to come back having improved on the mic, figuring out what she wants her character to be, and with a fire that she hasn't had since her main roster debut.

I'm probably being extremely hard on her, but shit, it's time to stop coasting on her reputation in NXT. People aren't going to cheer her because they're told to or because they remember how awesome she was in NXT. Eventually, she has to put in the work.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I never really expected Bayley to be the female John Cena personally and I think that people who do are setting themselves up to be disappointed. Bayley makes money for WWE, she's popular, people want to see her do her thing and I don't believe that you can ask for or expect anything more from any wrestler.

I've noticed that MANY who do the whole "well this guy is gonna be the next (insert name here)" usually become jaded because they're more interested in the qualities said wrestler has in common with a beloved favorite rather than focusing on his/her own merits. It's part of a mentality among a hefty number of American wrestling fans, one that's been around for a long time really, that automatically declares failure whenever a wrestler doesn't reach the levels they think he/she should be; if someone isn't a main eventer, they'll say "that wrestler's just a mid-carder" with such disdain that you'd think they were talking about a child molester or something. If Kevin Owens' career ends 5 years from now without him ever winning another World Championship, some of those fans will declare his career a failure as if all the great feuds, matches and moments he's had, and hopefully will continue to have, are somehow irrelevant.

As I've said at various times, Bayley's going to be fine. Whether she becomes "a female John Cena" or not, she brings a helluva lot to the table; many of us may not like how she's being used from time to time but, in the immortal words of Mick Jagger, you can't always get what you want.

 

[Wildcat66]

Quite simply, the difference between John Cena and Bayley (or at least the biggest difference because there is, in fact, multiple) is that star quality shone out of John Cena from the moment he debuted. Was everything 100% perfect for him from that moment on? Of course not, but everybody remembers the first words he ever spoke in a WWE ring because they were impactful. Everybody remembers him making chicken salad out of chicken shit and becoming the most over guy on the roster playing the character of a Vanilla Ice wannabe. There are some people who clearly have what it takes, call it the IT factor if you want, to be a huge name, even early on in their careers. Then there are those who have to work their asses off over a long period of time just in order to get noticed. Bayley doesn't exude that star quality right off the bat. She doesn't look like a star and more importantly, she doesn't sound like a star. Once her booking became unfaithful to the character she was comfortable playing, she didn't have the skills or the overwhelming charisma to make it work regardless.

I think her biggest problem is that she lacks confidence. And if you don't have the guts or motivation to go balls to the wall and make the most of your opportunities, people are going to see right through you. This incarnation of her character is in trouble, there's no point in denying it. She's still young, and this injury will give her and the audience a much-needed break. She needs to come back having improved on the mic, figuring out what she wants her character to be, and with a fire that she hasn't had since her main roster debut.

I'm probably being extremely hard on her, but shit, it's time to stop coasting on her reputation in NXT. People aren't going to cheer her because they're told to or because they remember how awesome she was in NXT. Eventually, she has to put in the work.

And that's the sad reality of it all, Bayley needs to decide where she wants to go with her career. She will always be a role model to little girls, but she's come to a point where she's in a crossroads with her career. You can't just coast on your work on NXT anymore, it's time to decide how you want to be seen as in the main roster. There's a reason Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, Finn Balor and to a lesser extent Chad Gable and Kevin Owens are where they are at in WWE right now. They knew what they wanted to be when they got to WWE and they made it their own.

 

[Charismatic Enigma]

I don't think Bayley was ever destined to be the John Cena of women, she is the Daniel Bryan of women. Her story arc was always that she was a lovable underdog, who despite having the odds stacked against her, would eventually climb to the top of the mountain and become champion.

There's a few problems with this on the main roster.

#1 over exposure. Raw is a 3 hour weekly show that features every performer, every week. NXT is a 1 hour show, that often will only feature its top performers in short segments every 2-3 weeks. This protects anyone's character from becoming boring, because you only see enough of them to leave you wanting more. Additionally, what you do see of them, tends to be solid 10-15 minute matches, which highlight their in-ring ability, whereas on Raw it's not uncommon to see them in a 2-5 minute match that doesn't show much of anything.

#2 Her story had a beginning, middle, and end...and it was already told in NXT.
Pretty cut and dry. To be a great hero, Bayley needed a great villain, and she had several during her time there. Over the course of a long couple of years, we saw Bayley finally ascend to the top, and then all of her primary competition got called up, and she didn't. This worked perfectly for her because once she graduated to the top, a new crop of girls was gunning for her. So it transitioned her character to stay fresh.

Upon arriving on the main roster, she received the belt too quickly, was never positioned as an underdog, didn't have a primary rival, etc. There wasn't anywhere for her to go, at best all she could do was stay the course. But it also would've been silly to position her at the bottom again, after we just saw her coronation in NXT.

None of this is her fault. It's not even really bookings fault, it's just simple story telling. She completed the heroes journey, and they need to find a new story to tell with her. I guarantee you that if Bryan hadn't gone out in the way he did, and had kept the title for more than 3 months after WM30, people would've started getting bored with him, and his momentum would've started stalling, because when you're an underdog character, the best role to be positioned in is as a chaser, not a champion.

I think some time off, and a roster shakeup in her absence, will cause her to come back revitalized.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I think also that last night's crowd didn'T really bought into her promo. The fact that it kinda feel like a fake injury to advance a storyline doesn't really help her cause either. When you watch the video back from last week, it doesn'T look like they're anyway she could have been injured from either spot.

But going back to the main topic, the reason i think Bayley didn't take like she should have been it's over exposure in my opinion. From what i've got from watching both brands, they have 2 different way of booking the women's. On Raw, they only push a certains number of women. Last night was a perfect example of that. When Cole told us that they're would be to triple threat matches on raw, i'm sure that i'm not the only one that didn't remember that they had so many women's on the Raw side. Just Like Charlotte, sasha banks and now alexa Bliss, Bayley as been over expose because she's been the focus of most of the feud since the beginning of the year. While on smackdown, everybody seem to get a push, so it doesn't get so repetitive every week, so everybody has a chance to develop their character and the fans won't get sick of you as fast.

Bayley is probably somebody that's perfect for the live event crowd in my opinion, she a character that made for kids especially young girls. In a Tv environment especially on the main roster, she not going to get the type of reaction she was getting with a smaller crowd in NXT or at live events. Because, their more and more smart fans going to those tv tapings especially RAW and those type of fans won't be forced feed crap, if they don't like something they will be vocal especially in Canada.

So i think when people want to compare bayley to Cena, i think it's more as far as the fans base aspect of it. I don't see her be at the same level as Cena as far as the fan base is concern but she does attract the same fanbase and they can exploit that if they truly need too.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I think the analogy is flawed.

If you compare Cena and Bayley's popularity, then I would say that Bayley was never hated. Cena has been hated on here for years. Bayley has always been popular, Cena hasn't always been.

If you mean as in legacy, then I wouldn't put Bayley in the same ballpark. She wasn't part of the Divas Revolution storyline, and there were nine Divas in that. All the other three Horsewomen were called up, but not here, showing where she is in the pecking order. She is the Ringo Starr of the Four Horsewomen.

The Daniel Bryan analogy is probably better, as they are both underdogs.

 

[d_henderson1810]

I will admit, Bayley's recent fall from grace has been interesting to cover and watch. But it has also given me a newfound respect for her.

It's things like these that explain why i'm not a watcher of NXT. They build these wrestlers up to be something they aren't and most of the time, they're not going to repeat what they did in NXT. Some actually do better on the main roster than in NXT, such as Braun Strowman, Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, even people like Big E. Langston, Becky Lynch and Xavier Woods have had more success on the main roster than in NXT.

(WWE66 was last seen being burnt at the stake by the pitchfork-wielding NXTites who won't accept that NXT is just a televised feeder league, owned by WWE, and instead imagine it as an old-ECW rebel entity in competition with WWE. Also, the NXTites were upset that WWE66 dared suggest that some people from the perfect NXT have done BETTER on the main roster of the evil WWE Raw or Smackdown. I mean, according to these people, Vince has never built a star, and he exists solely to be mocked and put down as a senile old man who was never any good).

Let that be a lesson to you all, what happens when you cross the NXT nerds. I know, I have the burns and scars to prove it.

 

[Navi]

Bayley has a few issues not the least of which is the fact that she was hotshotted to the title far too early. As for the OP's suggestion that she was the next John Cena, I don't believe that for a minute. I think she was more likened to Daniel Bryan. You know the girl who always dreamed of being a WWE superstar and now she achieved her dream.

No she isn't great on the mic, but only time will tell if she gets better. Naomi is crap on the mic as well and she is holding a championship right now. Very few wrestlers are gold and I don't see Bayley ever becoming a female "Enzo".

Another thing is the surprise of Alexa Bliss who is putting a lot of the women to shame. That girl has grabbed the brass ring and is off and running with it. Not so fantastic in the ring, but she is a firecracker with her mic work and facial expressions. She doesn't even need to have a match to be entertaining, just cut her loose on someone.

Bayley came out of NXT with great fanfare and I do believe there is a fanbase out there for her. Will it ever be a big as Daniel Bryan's, probably not, but in women's wrestling we shouldn't expect it to be. Like JH said, she will make money for the WWE and that's all they can ask of her.

Oh yea change her finisher as well, it is pretty bad.

 

[The Scarred One]

Personally, I felt the WWE missed out on something back at Extreme Rules when Bayley and Alexa Bliss had that Kendo Stick on a Pole match.

The thing with Bayley as a character is that, to me, she comes across as being too nice. That can be a problem for if you're too nice, then people can take advantage of you and treat you like a doormat. From what I recall in the interview she gave the next night on RAW, she said something like how she wanted to stay true to herself and not stoop to Alexa's level. That's all well and good for a babyface to say, but it doesn't help them get their revenge when it truly matters.

I'm not saying Bayley should turn heel. But she should have an edge to her when her back is against the wall. In that match, it would've been nice to see Bayley just finally snap and beat the shit out of Alexa. It would've been like that scene from "A Christmas Story" where Ralphie finally snaps and beats up Scott Farcas. It would've been poetic justice for Alexa to finally get what was coming to her for pushing Bayley to her breaking point.

Like I said, I don't think a heel turn is necessary for her. She just needs to adjust her character somewhat. After all, being a nice person doesn't mean you have to be a pushover. She can still be the same lovable Bayley that all girls can admire, but she can also be someone who is not afraid to really go badass on the heel when the situation calls for it.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Bayley is John Cena at his worst. She is consistently dull, repetitve, and she hasn't had a one on one match on the main roster that I enjoyed. Her character is catered to children and her actions feel more like marketing than storytelling. She is put in matches that should go to someone else. I see Mickie and Sasha have matches where they appear to be putting in a lot of effort. Bayley feels like she's going through her steps.

I know she's not for me but that doesn't mean I have to like her. She is the worst thing on the Raw or SD rosters. My opinion on her is probably stronger than most but her popularity has clearly waned as she is someone who used to get chants when she wasn't on screen and I'm pretty sure there used to be a song that fans would sing to her. I pity her if she feuds with a heel Sasha. The loudest fans would show far more support for Sasha.

 

[Wildcat66]

(WWE66 was last seen being burnt at the stake by the pitchfork-wielding NXTites who won't accept that NXT is just a televised feeder league, owned by WWE, and instead imagine it as an old-ECW rebel entity in competition with WWE. Also, the NXTites were upset that WWE66 dared suggest that some people from the perfect NXT have done BETTER on the main roster of the evil WWE Raw or Smackdown. I mean, according to these people, Vince has never built a star, and he exists solely to be mocked and put down as a senile old man who was never any good).

Let that be a lesson to you all, what happens when you cross the NXT nerds. I know, I have the burns and scars to prove it.

I did watch NXT Takeover R-Evolution back in 2014, the event was fantastic, but I also understood that it just wasn't my thing and I respected that. I understand that may upset the NXT fanbase, especially the more fan-boyish ones; but that's my opinion. You don't have to like it or agree with it, as long as we can at least respect each other; i'm perfectly cool with it.

 

[Richard Blonoff]

There are two big reasons for Bayley floundering on the main roster.

1) They rushed her storyline. 99% of the time in today's WWE they go for short term pops over long term builds to an even bigger reaction. They rush the payoff on storylines way too often. In NXT we saw Bayley go from being a rookie who was overwhelmed to be living her dream of being a pro wrestler who hugged everyone, to plucky underdog who never gave up, to finally defeating evil Sasha and validating herself with the fans by winning gold. That is why we loved her in NXT. We saw her progress and grow. She gained depth, she faced setbacks, she overcame them. She felt real and was easy to root for. On the main roster she had a decent enough debut, but they rushed her to the title win on a B PPV. There was no chase, no underdog to root for, no character arc. They choose to forgo the long term payoff for a cheap short term pop.

2) WWE has no fucking clue how to book an underdog, or even a decent face of any kind. Look at Daniel Bryan. We fell in love with him because night in and night out he went out and wrestled his heart out. It didn't matter if it was a twenty minute main event he was going to win or a three minute squash he was going to lose. He never took a night off. Once it became clear that WWE had no desire to utilize him to his potential based on their arbritrary reasons of him being short and a vegan, I'm not kidding, the fans rallied behind him because the alternative was another Orton va. Batista showing. A little by good booking but mostly by random chance, Bryan was constantly given obstacles to overcome in an attempt to grab the brass ring. Each time it seemed in reach, Vince and co would grease it up and watch him fall. Despite that, he never gave up, he never took a shortcut, he put his head down and kept grinding and eventually we got one of the best Wrestlemania moments off all time. All WWE took away from that is that if you make someone lose a lot and look pathetic in the process, then people will cheer them as an underdog. It hasn't worked for anyone since Bryan and it isn't working for Bayley.

 

[Wildcat66]

There are two big reasons for Bayley floundering on the main roster.

1) They rushed her storyline. 99% of the time in today's WWE they go for short term pops over long term builds to an even bigger reaction. They rush the payoff on storylines way too often. In NXT we saw Bayley go from being a rookie who was overwhelmed to be living her dream of being a pro wrestler who hugged everyone, to plucky underdog who never gave up, to finally defeating evil Sasha and validating herself with the fans by winning gold. That is why we loved her in NXT. We saw her progress and grow. She gained depth, she faced setbacks, she overcame them. She felt real and was easy to root for. On the main roster she had a decent enough debut, but they rushed her to the title win on a B PPV. There was no chase, no underdog to root for, no character arc. They choose to forgo the long term payoff for a cheap short term pop.

2) WWE has no fucking clue how to book an underdog, or even a decent face of any kind. Look at Daniel Bryan. We fell in love with him because night in and night out he went out and wrestled his heart out. It didn't matter if it was a twenty minute main event he was going to win or a three minute squash he was going to lose. He never took a night off. Once it became clear that WWE had no desire to utilize him to his potential based on their arbritrary reasons of him being short and a vegan, I'm not kidding, the fans rallied behind him because the alternative was another Orton va. Batista showing. A little by good booking but mostly by random chance, Bryan was constantly given obstacles to overcome in an attempt to grab the brass ring. Each time it seemed in reach, Vince and co would grease it up and watch him fall. Despite that, he never gave up, he never took a shortcut, he put his head down and kept grinding and eventually we got one of the best Wrestlemania moments off all time. All WWE took away from that is that if you make someone lose a lot and look pathetic in the process, then people will cheer them as an underdog. It hasn't worked for anyone since Bryan and it isn't working for Bayley.

The problem with no. 1 is that they've already told this story back in NXT. As mentioned by Charismatic Engima, if you're looking for a great hero, you also need a great villain. And by the time she was on top of the world, all of her competition left for the main roster.

This is something that was a bit of a double edged sword. He was made to look like a bitch for so long, but fans still cheered him because people loved him and he never gave up. When WWE realized what they did with him was getting popped, they decided to do it for other people too. What happened with D-Bryan at WrestleMania XXX will go down as one of the greatest moments in the company's history. But it came with a major price.

 

[AzLunchbox]

Coming from an NXT fan, I think the main.problem.with Bailey and a lot.of NXT callups is....well......NXT.

It started a few years ago. We'd have debut after debut of "This former NXT Champion!" "THIS GUY HAS BEEN MAKING WAVES IN NXT!" "Look, it's Kevin Owens from NXT!"

We used to get introduced to characters, watch them build, watch them grow, watch them become stars that we cared about, but somewhere along the way WWE got lazy.

I didn't start watching NXT because of the buzz. I didn't start watching NXT because of the great match quality. I didn't start watching it to fit in.

I started watching NXT so I'd know who the hell the new people were because WWE and their announcers certainly weren't telling me! Everyone debuted as "We've seen this superstar down in NXT" with no actual development on WWE tv.

That's Baileys issue. Everything that made NXT love her....was in NXT. So the casuals had no idea who she was when she came in, had no idea who The Ascension we're when they came in, had no idea who Tyler Breeze was, etc. So if the main roster isn't building them up and expecting them to stay over without giving the fans a reason to care, alot of them flop because they don't know how to adjust and noone in power is doing anything to try to fix it.

I love NXT now, but before I started watching it I hated it and almost turned away from the main show because.of it. Don't just tell me everyone is from NXT and expect that to be enough reason to care!

Bailey needs a character that is developed NOW. Something to get the fans invested NOW, a story arch that will make people care NOW. Not "She was really good in NXT"

 

[Richard Blonoff]

The problem with no. 1 is that they've already told this story back in NXT. As mentioned by Charismatic Engima, if you're looking for a great hero, you also need a great villain. And by the time she was on top of the world, all of her competition left for the main roster.

This is something that was a bit of a double edged sword. He was made to look like a bitch for so long, but fans still cheered him because people loved him and he never gave up. When WWE realized what they did with him was getting popped, they decided to do it for other people too. What happened with D-Bryan at WrestleMania XXX will go down as one of the greatest moments in the company's history. But it came with a major price.

This is the issue I have with a lot of people who shit on NXT, or try to be d_henderson and look cool when really he is fucking ******ed and one of the worst posters on the site. People claim that they don't watch NXT, and honestly that's fine. Not everyone had the Network, and not everyone wants to watch wrestling three nights in a row. There are also a lot of people down there who are still fairly green because despite the fact that NXT has moved beyond developmental, it still serves as the first exposure on TV most of those guys get and that isn't always a smooth transition. So despite being consistently good, it isn't perfect and after five hours the previous two nights, it's a lot to take in. Anyway, you can't claim to not watch NXT and then argue that NXT already ran a certain storyline and that it can't be used on the main roster. That's stupid for multiple reasons. If you don't watch NXT, and a fair amount of people don't, then you don't know how said story is gonna play out. Also, it's wrestling, there have only ever been like five original storylines in history. If you weren't allowed to reuse storylines, then wrestling would have gone out of business a long long time ago.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Coming from an NXT fan, I think the main.problem.with Bailey and a lot.of NXT callups is....well......NXT.

It started a few years ago. We'd have debut after debut of "This former NXT Champion!" "THIS GUY HAS BEEN MAKING WAVES IN NXT!" "Look, it's Kevin Owens from NXT!"

And yet "Look, it's Kevin Owens from NXT" made it big. Sure he is not main eventing Wrestlemania but he has few titles and is big star. And he did it in much tougher competition then drag queen, Snoop Dog cousin, leprechaun and girl whose biggest accomplishment until end of last year was that she dressed as Harley Quinn at one PPV. Its not NXT, some adapt better and up their game from developmental for main roster. Bayley is not one of those. Lame poems, WWE rushing her in minimal competition and dragging that fan thing to point that they presented watching WWE programming as "not cool" and her not adapting well at all. For example this is Bayley now

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awkward to the point where smarkity smarks almost booed her out of building like she was Donald Trump at Feminazi rally.

This is Harley Quinn girl

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They both had same opportunities and were Champions. And yet only one of them looks like she belongs there while other still tries to make it look like that.

 

[OYDK]

A lot of people talking about booking, and overexposure, and WWE not knowing how to use Bayley, and that's definitely part of it, but seriously, at the end of the day it comes down to talent. We can only make so many excuses for Bayley for so long, and I'm guilty of this as well. People like Kevin Owens, Charlotte, Sami Zayn, and Finn Balor didn't have the best booking throughout their entire runs and have gotten just as much exposure as Bayley has; they've stepped up and found ways to keep people invested, and now they're thriving. People might point out that Finn won the top Raw title in his first PPV and that Owens defeated John Cena clean in his first PPV, but those types of monster pushes so early on could be just as much of a curse as a blessing. The point is, they've been able to turn those pushes into sustainable WWE careers so far through sheer talent, whether that be in the ring, on the mic, or through their characters.

I might get roasted for this, but Bayley doesn't have an insane amount of natural talent. Her promos are just as bad now as they have been since her debut, and unless she's getting 20 minutes with somebody like Sasha, which is an extremely rare occurrence for any main roster match nowadays, her matches are not going to blow people out of the water. At the end of the day, she needs to do something to change fans perception of her. Maybe it's okay that she caters to the younger demographic, but I don't buy in the slightest that she's not supposed to be over with people like us, meaning older males/females. She was extremely over with that demographic in NXT and throughout the start of her main roster run. People have begun to turn on her not because they hate her character, but because they see through her weak work.

I don't think this is an overreaction. Bayley herself has discussed being extremely disillusioned with how things have been going so far. I'm a fan of her, but I also want her to act like she wants to succeed which I'm not seeing from her right now.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

I think the biggest problem with Bayley and for that matter alot of the NXT alums is that they don't realize that The main roster isn't the same as been on the NXT roster. They think just like probably some of the staff on the creative team that because they we're super over in NXT that they will be super over on raw or smackdown. That's not the case.

Bayley is pretty much the same character she was in NXT, fans can argue all they want about how she's been booked on Raw, but the fact of the matter is that she's the same Bayley that she was in NXT, the only difference is that she need to connect to a completly different audience which is we're the problem is. If you rely too much on the writers to get yourself over, you won't amount to anything. Just look at alexa bliss as an exemple, she one of those that understood what her character is and while they scripted everything she say, she take that scripted and make it her own. Bayley hasn't done that. Bayley strenght never really was her promos, even in NXT i couldn't believe that she really was this superfan character.

She always going plain old Bayley, because that's what she is, she a decent wrestler and a decent promo and it's o.k. They can use her as a role model for young girls, i think that could be her role within the division, somebody that's an underdog and try to realize her dream. She's never going to be the face of the division because she doesn't have the charisma that a Charlotte or Becky Lynch or even Paige (if she comes back) have, but she decent enough to be book as a underdog trying to realize her dream and get a short title reign at some point but for that to happen, she need to step up her game and find a way to get people interested in her character. We can put the blame all we went on creative but the performer have to do they're part as well, if they can't get the fans interested in them, then you can booked them the way you want, it's not going to matter because the fans won't care.

This is NXT where they had a lot of time to practice they're matches, it's the main roster and you need to step up or be forgotten, that's what the NXT guys need to realize. They won'T get a lot of time to rehearse their matches and promo on the main roster, it's sink or swim on the main roster. So either you find a way to get the audience on your side and keep them interested with your character or they move on to somebody else.

 

[Aeon Mathix]

I think people worry too much about the Women. There's a title on both shows for a total of what...13 women split in half? There's not much else for them to do but fight for a title as it's not like WWE is going to create any personal feuds or stories out of the ones not fighting for a championship. Almost every pay per view since the brand split has featured multi women matches for the title because of the lack of depth in each division. To say Bayley is done or anything close is ridiculous.

She will be back in the title picture just because what else would there be for her to do? WWE knows her background and NXT run otherwise they wouldn't have made a big deal of her being brought up to Raw. She's just in a funk because they booked her too strong too fast. It was about as un-fuckupable as you could get but of course they dropped the ball. Just have her heal and come back as an underdog, lose a lot of matches, create sympathy then build a redemption story on the way to Mania preferably against Sasha.

Seriously, she's not doomed or anything close to it. There aren't any lower mid card titles or tag titles in the Women's division. There isn't anything for her or any of the others to do but fight for the title because there's so few of them. She will be fine.

 

[Radical]

I don't think Bayley was ever destined to be the John Cena of women, she is the Daniel Bryan of women. Her story arc was always that she was a lovable underdog, who despite having the odds stacked against her, would eventually climb to the top of the mountain and become champion.

There's a few problems with this on the main roster.

#1 over exposure. Raw is a 3 hour weekly show that features every performer, every week. NXT is a 1 hour show, that often will only feature its top performers in short segments every 2-3 weeks. This protects anyone's character from becoming boring, because you only see enough of them to leave you wanting more. Additionally, what you do see of them, tends to be solid 10-15 minute matches, which highlight their in-ring ability, whereas on Raw it's not uncommon to see them in a 2-5 minute match that doesn't show much of anything.

#2 Her story had a beginning, middle, and end...and it was already told in NXT.
Pretty cut and dry. To be a great hero, Bayley needed a great villain, and she had several during her time there. Over the course of a long couple of years, we saw Bayley finally ascend to the top, and then all of her primary competition got called up, and she didn't. This worked perfectly for her because once she graduated to the top, a new crop of girls was gunning for her. So it transitioned her character to stay fresh.

Upon arriving on the main roster, she received the belt too quickly, was never positioned as an underdog, didn't have a primary rival, etc. There wasn't anywhere for her to go, at best all she could do was stay the course. But it also would've been silly to position her at the bottom again, after we just saw her coronation in NXT.

None of this is her fault. It's not even really bookings fault, it's just simple story telling. She completed the heroes journey, and they need to find a new story to tell with her. I guarantee you that if Bryan hadn't gone out in the way he did, and had kept the title for more than 3 months after WM30, people would've started getting bored with him, and his momentum would've started stalling, because when you're an underdog character, the best role to be positioned in is as a chaser, not a champion.

I think some time off, and a roster shakeup in her absence, will cause her to come back revitalized.

Very accurately recapped the situation with Bayley's character and how it came to be this way.

I agree. And she did a great job working with her story arc in NXT and she climbed the mountain top before she got called up.

Then, she got to the main roster and she was not put in a great position and got hot shotted to the Title way too early. And all she could do was do the best she could with what they were giving her. She got put in a really tough position.

I also agree, Daniel Bryan was that type of character and I bet you a lot of fans would have started to get cold on him if he held the Title too long after WM or was still an active wrestler. He probably would still get lots of "Yes!" chants but if he held the Title too long or lost it and went over again with another "odds stacked against him, underdog run for the World Title" angle again, fans wouldn't be as interested again.

It's amazing how long Rey Mysterio's popularity lasted in WWE since he is was the ULTIMATE underdog. Of course, many (mostly adult) fans turned on him too later in his WWE career the more times he was put in a David vs Goliath situation and especially when it was for a Title.


I think this injury time off should be good for Bayley. I don't think her super babyface character is doomed but she needs to get a good heel or heels against her so she can have a good feud to show her toughness and gain natural credibility and support. She needs to come back with a slightly different aspect to her character at least. Could be a new move or two in the ring or more determined attitude, but something more.


I don't know what happened exactly with her and the fans in Toronto the other day, but I gather she got booed pretty badly. They do call Canada "bizarro land" for a reason, but it sounds like the fans were still acting pretty fickle and ridiculous. But of course the positions WWE put Bayley in since being on the main roster has not helped her in almost any way.


But there is nothing wrong with being a positive, hard-working, underdog character. But continual character development helped with good feuds and rivals is key.


ANY talented pro wrestler can be made to look bad if they aren't given good opportunity to develop their character and be in interesting feuds and rivalries.