What are your wrestling pet peeves?

[Psykohurricane55]

I been wanting to do a thread like this one for a while now but never did because i never thought it was the right time.

But now i feel it is. So the simple question is, what is your wrestling pet peeves,

So here's mines

1. Fans trying to hijack the show or just cheering for whoever they want: nothing against thoses fans but it's pretty hard to care about characters when all you heard is stuff like "this is awesome" and it's even harder to care about heel when thise same heel are getting cheered by the fans.

2. The term "this wrestler is being shoved down are throat": this i can't stand reading or earing this. It's like everytime somebody that the IWC doesn't like is getting a mega push, he's been shoved down are throat. But if somebody they like gets the same treatment, it's o.k(a.k.a kofi kingston right now).

3. Criticizing wwe for everything while other company does the same thing and they don't get the same criticism: this is the biggest pet peeves of mine. When wwe is doing something crappy, fans will jump all over them but if AEW or any other company does the same crappy or worst. It's o.k, it's part of the show and we don't understand current wrestling.

4. Intergender wrestling: nothing against this type of wrestling, but i really can't get behind this as it feel so fake most of the time and i can't get into the match. My thinking is that if this match was real, nine times out of ten, the guy would destroyed the girl so how it is believable that the girl is able to go 50/50 with the guy?

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

Just a few off the top of my head...

Wrestling fans who can’t objectively review something such as an event or an incident without making that opinion personal. For instance you’ll have someone say how good a match was but they’ll still have to get in how they don’t like “insert wrestlers name”.

Wrestling fans who hate guys like Hogan, Austin etc based on BS they read in dirt sheets. If Eric Bischoff’s podcast has proven anything guys like Meltzer, etc were either fed false info or made s*** up half the time.

I hate various chants, “This is Awesome”, “Fight forever” and I hated when people were chanting “AE Dub” at Fyter Fest.

 

[oneguy]

I'm glad you started this thread and I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who is sick and tired of people who do nothing but complain and are completely hypocritical. I wouldn't even call them fans. Instead they are self-appointed experts and keyboard bookers. Other points:
People who come up with one idea and think that they can do a better job then the creative team just because 5 people liked their idea. It's like, okay you came up with one idea that will take up about 20 minutes of a 3 hour show that runs 52 weeks a year non-stop. What else do you have genius?
People who complain about creative department, yet the only solution they can come up with is "Turn everyone heel!"
People who judge a storyline based on who came up with it. Perfect example is the Maria pregnancy storyline. When everyone thought Vince was behind it: "This is stupid." When they hear that Paul Heyman is behind it: "What a great idea!" "Pure genius!".
People who are too stringent on what they expect or want to happen. Such as, this person has to win. Or this person needs to be pushed, or so and so must turn heel. It's okay to have ideas and opinions on what should happen. But don't be so set on them. Be open to other ideas and possibilities. Otherwise you are going to be disappointed no matter what. Because either you won't get what you want or it will be too predictable. For example the situation with New Day. Many people think Big E should turn heel. But because they are so set on it, one of two things will happen. Either they don't turn him heel and people will be like, "Well why didn't WWE turn him heel? They had an opportunity to turn Big E heel and they blew it." Or they do turn Big E heel and people will go "Oh. I knew Big E was going to turn heel. WWE is so predictable."
I hate the chants as well. Especially the ones that have nothing to do with what is going on inside the ring. That is why I love the Saudi Arabia shows. The fans are awesome. They don't try to make it about themselves. They are just there to enjoy themselves.
People who judge the quality of a match based on who won and who lost. (I actually wrote something about that awhile ago)
People who say that if you are apart of the IWC then you can't criticize the IWC. That makes absolutely no sense. Who better to criticize the IWC then someone who sees what is going on first hand? I mean who better to criticize WWE? Someone on the outside or someone who actually works there and has a first hand basis of what goes on?
Anyone who believes anything Dave Meltzer says. The guy is a cancer.
There are various terms that I can't stand such as Guy being shoved down our throats. Or this guy is getting buried just because he loses one match. The only people who can bury a wrestler are the fans when they basically give up on the guy.

 

[Limelee666]

For me, it’s more the stuff which happens in ring these days. And I’m referring to WWE in these instances

Please exclude Daniel Bryan from most of this as he is actually the exception in most cases

First pet peeve, nobody is a technical wrestler anymore, they all strike, they all flip, they all have a signature submission, a finisher etc. Technical mat wrestlers used to focus on a body part, pick it apart etc. It meant they had a clear game plan which leads to my second pet peeve

No clear game plans. Wrestlers don’t spend time setting up there end game. They just react and counter and all of a sudden hit a finish. They lose momentum, hit a big move, and the finish happens. I’d say tag team wrestling has more of an obvious game plan element but the matches are often so by the numbers in terms of structure.

Next Pet Peeve is multiple finishers. I get your trying to get over the resilience of someone but in doing so, you devalue the finishing move. So if Finn Balor kicked out at the last PPV, the AJ styles had to kick out etc. Just be more inventive, and instead of finishers out of nowhere, allow wrestlers to hit a sequence of moves unanswered you know, a superplex, followed by a flying elbow followed by a finisher. It doesn’t devalue the loser if they aren’t caught by surprise, and you can easily have them avoid the sequence in the inevitable rematch. (I’ll come back to this!) Edge vs Taker at WM24 is the perfect example of how to transition into new moves because the ones your using aren’t working. Taker literally got reversed from everything, he eventually hit a tombstone which he reversed into, and Edge kicked out. Taker looked done when edge went for a second spear but he reversed into hells gate which he hadn’t used that much at that point. Edge had a game plan, was clearly prepared but as the match wore on he made mistakes as Taker kept sitting up and coming back.

Back to inevitable rematches. Why is Baron Corbin still in the title picture, why is nobody on Raw saying, I’m the number one contender etc. Basically, two guys run a programme, do it to death for a few months, the person who isn’t the champ ends up slipping down the card. The programme serves to get the champ over but buried the other guy. Nakamura is the perfect example, he had 3 months feuding with styles. And he ended up on the losing end. After Wrestlemania they should’ve done more to protect his new heel gimmick and keep him away from a one on one with styles, instead they had a long programme which Nakamura hasn’t recovered from cos he lost 3 in a row. Same is happening with Ziggler at the moment. They’d be better hotshotting the belt accross a fued and involve others. Atleast this way we don’t end up with matchups being done to death over a few ppv’s.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

All good points guys and by reading them another one came to mind.

Anybody that start comparing NXT to The main roster and says how HHH would do a better job booking the main roster then Vince based on how the nxt product is.

My problem with that is that they don't get that NXT is a developmental brand and that NXT is only one hour per week and it's a tape show playing on a streaming service which mean that while they aren't on tv, they are practicing or soing the occasional live event while on the main rosters, they are lived every week and have multiple hours to fill plus the 3 live events to produce every weekend which means less time to practice their matches.

 

[Aquaman6686]

1 - NXT fans. They're just the absolute worst. "So and so was ruined by main roster creative." "So and so is going to revolutionize wrestling". Constantly hijacking every show.
2 - Faces never losing clean. Heels cheating to win constantly is such an ancient, overused clichè. This is primarily due to Vince's fear of babyfaces looking weak, but he needs to get over this. Heels should be beating faces clean just as often as the opposite happens. Not every heel needs to be a chicken$h!t coward heel. A prime example of a wrestler being ruined by this is CM Punk in 2012 after his heel turn. Punk went from putting on the most amazing matches in the company regularly to being a pathetic weakling who couldn't beat R-Truth without an ton of interference.
3 - The lack of presentation in WWE. Losing pyro and Titantron videos has been absolutely devastating to the company. Every show besides WrestleMania feels like a house show. Entrances lack the big-time feel they used to have without pyro and tron videos, and the lack of pyro makes shows feel bland and unimportant. Cut it from RAW and SmackDown, fine, but PPVs absolutely NEED pyro back.
4 - Attempting to promote a PPV in Saudi Arabia as being equivalent to WrestleMania is nothing but shameless pandering to the Saudi elite. It was an outrage and an insult to everyone who has ever worked for WWE.
5 - Fans now endlessly praising Roman Reigns and claiming he's "amazing" and "has improved so much" because they want to appear...(what's the word now? "Woke"?) because they believe his cancer was legitimate and now worship him. He's not, he hasn't, and it wasn't.
6 - Pushing young talents WAY too hard, WAY too fast. Up until roughly a decade ago, WWE knew how to properly build a young talent, slow and steady. But ever since 2010 when The Nexus showed up, WWE skyrockets young talents to the top, sabotaging their careers and the careers of others. On VERY rare occasions, yes the company can get lucky and it works, but 9 times out of 10, it hurts the wrestler being pushed, every wrestler involved with them, and the company as a whole. This is my single biggest pet peeve in wrestling.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Oh, where do I start?

1) People saying how the main person promoted on the roster is being "shoved down our throats" and, once they find out that Vince is "high on him" then the fans automatically hate that guy, and give that guy ZERO credit.

It happened with Cena, it is happening now with Roman Reigns. Hell, it happened to Lex Luger in the 90's, when the fans tepid response meant that Vince didn't put the belt on Luger at WMX.

2) People who say that Roman Reigns' cancer is fake. Unless you are a doctor, and can PROVE it is fake, you have a hide questioning this.

I bet if one of your faves was diagnosed with cancer, you would send "Get well" tweets and pray for him. But because it is Roman, some hoped that he would die instead. Disgusting.

3) Wrestling fans who think the whole industry revolves around them, and whatever they think is the only way to run a wrestling company, and anything outside of that is "wrong".

4) People who aren't satisfied enough to have AEW as competition, but hope that AEW kills WWE and puts it out of business, which then creates the same problem of there being no competition that WWE have.

5) People who act like everything done in NXT is right, but everything that happens on the main roster is wrong.

Also, those who act like NXT and WWE are two completely separate companies, instead of treating NXT for what it is:- A glorified feeder league which is televised. It is no different to OVW back in its day.

6) People who complain about Roman being "shoved down our throats" but don't see a problem with Kofi Kingston or Becky Lynch being shoved down our throats.

7) Those who bag everything that WWE does, say how RAW and SD sucks, but then keep following or watching, just so they can continue to whine. Either like it or leave it.

8) Fans who cheer things that aren't even going on in the ring.

9) People who are ungrateful, and forget all the great things that Vince McMahon was responsible for in WWE (Wrestlemania, Hulkamania, the Attitude Era)

10) Mods on here who say my criticisms of certain wrestlers is due to racism, rather than seeing them as legit complaints. Mods on this site need to be more professional.

 

[JoeMallard]

The lack of quality heels.
NXT talent being called up with absolutely no plan and not shown on tv for months.
The same matches every week.
Fans who are stuck in the 90's that can't accept anything new.

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

Some truly excellent points in this thread. I think the times we’re living in is the problem. Wrestling is suffering from the same problems as other stuff such as movies, Tv, etc. The internet has allowed everyone to be a critic, people think they know better etc. Sad times really.

 

[robinkom]

1 - Fans hijacking the show and throwing beach balls around. That's incredibly disrespectful to the wrestlers out there trying to put on a show for you. The smart fans need to stop taking out their frustration with the booking on the wrestlers themselves.

2 - Smart fans. Which is ironic, I know. Thing is, I try to learn everything I can about the psychology of wrestling by listening to stories told in interviews with the guys who actually have had success and have great minds for it. Jim Cornette, Dutch Mantell, Raven, Greg Gagne, Gary Hart, Kevin Sullivan, etc., those guys will go very in depth and explain how good booking is done and a lot of key details they mention that really do make the booking good are just not things you see in today's wrestling... because everyone thinks they know better instead of learning from the past to adapt those ideas to today. And in the odd instance that they do and it's done well, it makes me happy to see it done well while all the other smarks are sitting there boo-boo faced because it wasn't a bunch of flippy-floppy acrobat rubbish.

3 - Spotfest matches. This was about 90% of Double of Nothing and I pretty much zoned out. Non-stop acrobatic nonsense for the sake of itself with no selling, no psychology, and no emotion. WWE is guilty of this too with some of those Raw and Smackdown main events. They slow it down a little more but it ultimately still bleeds together into white noise and I can't even remember it the next day. Do less with more meaning and emotion. I don't care how many flips you can do if it didn't mean anything.

4 - Wrestlers not selling injuries or moves in general. No one sells punches or headbutts which drives me crazy to no end. Sometimes they ruin what should be a high spot into looking weak. One such example is Seth Rollins' Superplex rollover into the Falcon Arrow. You don't need the Falcon Arrow. You just did a Superplex and BOTH of you hit that mat at the same time, that's enough, you should both be selling that full stop. If you have to headbutt the other guy to get out of hold, that's a move of desperation! You just rang your bell to ring his bell, you should both be down.

5 - Comedy wrestling. To be clear, you can have comedy in wrestling if, like everything else, it has meaning and context in that moment. But when you have indie morons like Chuck Taylor doing the invisible hand grenade and that total void, Joey Ryan with his crotch gimmick... no, those goofs should be euthanized. That kind of garbage is why kayfabe in wrestling isn't taken serious anymore because if that was still upheld, someone would have put the boots to both of them a long time ago.

6 - Intergender Wrestling. Intergender matches that try to come off as actual competitive matches should NOT be as common a thing as it is right now. You can make an attraction out of it in special cases such as with Chyna or when WCW tried and failed to do something with Col. Parker Vs. Medusa but there's no believing some 110 lb. string bean of a girl is going to stand toe-to-toe with a 300 lb. hoss of a dude. Otherwise, you have someone like James Ellsworth who is about 140 lb. wet and actually does work indie matches against women where his role is to get beat up and cheat to win. He's from my tri-state area, I have been to those shows and have seen it. You can do that once in a while as appropriate comedy within a wrestling sense.

7 - Too much emulation of Japanese Wrestling in the West. Strong style is the way it is because the Japanese people relate to it. Their respect for wrestling is very different because they've all been there to some extent themselves. In school they have to take Judo classes so they know what it feels like to be slammed around. So the wrestling has to look more real when they take bumps. So in the last 15 or so years, it's produced a very sizable crop of junior heavyweights under 6 feet tall in kickpads who got into the business thinking that's what wrestling is supposed to be here. They're beating the crap out of each other for real, ironically not selling it, and now quite a few of them populate the WWE roster. And all those matches are the same. Like I stated above, no one sells and there's no emotion, it's just a series of moves with no meaning. It's not entertaining anybody except, again, the smarks who follow that stuff and those aren't the people paying the most money to see the show, the casual fans are and they don't know sh*t from Shinola about Japanese wrestling.

8 - Too many tweeners. This is a lot of what led to my ceasing to watch any WWE programming over the last year and some odd months. As "shades of gray" as everyone wants to be anymore, no, you can't do that in wrestling for every talent on every show. There has to be conflict in a feud that is more emotional that "we're both fierce competitors." People know it's a work, they don't view wrestling like they do real competitive sports. You need to have babyfaces and heels, the people need someone to love and someone to hate. WWE just don't have the guts to make that really work in our current social climate because they don't want the negative PR from a heel wrestler being a heel to get heat. Not saying it would be easy if they tried, but it'd be a lot more interesting to watch and for a company that's panicking over it's low TV ratings, it certainly couldn't make things worse.

 

[Rossinater]

Whenever a guy is on the outside of the ring and hes staring at his opponent in the ring while his opponent runs the ropes and does a dive or flip over the top rope and the other guy stands there like an idiot waiting to be hit by a flying man and then when its a dive when they connect at impact they basically just hug and fall to the ground.
I hate when the wrestler just allows his opponent to put a crazy submission hold without the guy trying to roll and flop around and punch the guy to stop him from doing it rather than just allowing the whole thing to transpire while your waving your hands like an idiot not knowing what to do as your getting put in a hold.
I hate when wrestlers are in a submission and are right next to the ropes but they act like they cant reach the rope and then 10 seconds go by and no one moves and hes able to reach the rope.
I hate when guys do taunts in each others face without being punched out,ex.Pentagon throwing the glove against omega.
I absolutely hate more than anything when wrestlers sell an imaginary move in a competitive contest.
I cant stand illogical booking
I absolutely hate excessive false finishes
I hate kickouts at two when the guy is just waiting until the last milisecond before 3 to kick out when he could have kicked out the whole time.
I hate when wrestlers break kayfabe while in the wrestling bubble
I am annoyed by people who dont put their all into what they do, They dont put the effort in to make yourself noticed, Why arent there more people like MJF- You look at all the successful wrestlers and all of them make you believe that they are that person and no one else.
Anytime it is obvious in the ring that shows the two are cooperating and not hiding the things that expose that it is a work. A lot of times people are just doing move after move and there is no time to process what exactly is going on-it makes the contest strictly sport and wrestling isnt strictly sport.Its then hard to follow because they dont hide the cooperation and the whole thing takes away from everything.
For example AEW wants to say they are delivering a sports centric product but in reality they are putting on a show. They are doing the same thing wwe is doing. Its all just entertainment. When you have guys selling imaginary video game moves and you say you are sports centric-it just doesnt make sense.
and lastly
I hate when wrestlers describe what they do as being "art" -save it for your coworkers and fellow pro wrestlers-the fan doesnt wwant to hear that shit
LOL, Theres a ton of things that are annoying but it mostly centers around wrestlers not putting in the effort to make what you are seeing believable and look like a real fight. This is why i have always been a wwe fan because its entertainment but still sports focus. WWE would never have the wrestlers do an imaginary video game move.

 

[oneguy]

1 - NXT fans. They're just the absolute worst. "So and so was ruined by main roster creative." "So and so is going to revolutionize wrestling". Constantly hijacking every show.
2 - Faces never losing clean. Heels cheating to win constantly is such an ancient, overused clichè. This is primarily due to Vince's fear of babyfaces looking weak, but he needs to get over this. Heels should be beating faces clean just as often as the opposite happens. Not every heel needs to be a chicken$h!t coward heel. A prime example of a wrestler being ruined by this is CM Punk in 2012 after his heel turn. Punk went from putting on the most amazing matches in the company regularly to being a pathetic weakling who couldn't beat R-Truth without an ton of interference.
3 - The lack of presentation in WWE. Losing pyro and Titantron videos has been absolutely devastating to the company. Every show besides WrestleMania feels like a house show. Entrances lack the big-time feel they used to have without pyro and tron videos, and the lack of pyro makes shows feel bland and unimportant. Cut it from RAW and SmackDown, fine, but PPVs absolutely NEED pyro back.
4 - Attempting to promote a PPV in Saudi Arabia as being equivalent to WrestleMania is nothing but shameless pandering to the Saudi elite. It was an outrage and an insult to everyone who has ever worked for WWE.
5 - Fans now endlessly praising Roman Reigns and claiming he's "amazing" and "has improved so much" because they want to appear...(what's the word now? "Woke"?) because they believe his cancer was legitimate and now worship him. He's not, he hasn't, and it wasn't.
6 - Pushing young talents WAY too hard, WAY too fast. Up until roughly a decade ago, WWE knew how to properly build a young talent, slow and steady. But ever since 2010 when The Nexus showed up, WWE skyrockets young talents to the top, sabotaging their careers and the careers of others. On VERY rare occasions, yes the company can get lucky and it works, but 9 times out of 10, it hurts the wrestler being pushed, every wrestler involved with them, and the company as a whole. This is my single biggest pet peeve in wrestling.

Number 5 proves that you are an absolute moron. Romans cancer is real. And to say that it wasnt just because you hate the guy makes you a miserable piece of garbage.

 

[Aquaman6686]

Number 5 proves that you are an absolute moron. Romans cancer is real. And to say that it wasnt just because you hate the guy makes you a miserable piece of garbage.

There's absolutely zero proof he was sick. ZERO. When an individual or organization has been factually proven to lie on a regular basis, evidence is required to prove they're being truthful, not that they're lying again.

 

[Rossinater]

Anybody that start comparing NXT to The main roster and says how HHH would do a better job booking the main roster then Vince based on how the nxt product is.


I couldnt disagree with that more.

HHH books logical. Vince doesnt .
HHH builds stars in NXT thru his booking-you have to be blind to not see that. Its not his fault that vince drops the ball everytime someone gets called up.You build and create stars by booking strong not by 50 50 booking which we see all over the main roster and not in NXT. He carefully puts together a card with matches and stories people want to see. Vince is booking the bullshit we see on tv each week thats making viewers turn away by the thousands. You can call NXT developmental but there is nothing developmental about NXT takeover and the main matches on NXT tv. NXT is as major league as any other roster or promotion but they also have developmental featured within the brand. You dont see the developmental projects on tv,they are just part of the brand. The NXT roster is full of super talented people that came from other promotions-they are not developmental. NXT is a place for new people to learn the wwe system. If NXT is developmental then the main roster should be embarrassed that the better wrestling ppvs are Takeover specials done by "developmental talent".

 

[Psykohurricane55]

Anybody that start comparing NXT to The main roster and says how HHH would do a better job booking the main roster then Vince based on how the nxt product is.


I couldnt disagree with that more.

HHH books logical. Vince doesnt .
HHH builds stars in NXT thru his booking-you have to be blind to not see that. Its not his fault that vince drops the ball everytime someone gets called up.You build and create stars by booking strong not by 50 50 booking which we see all over the main roster and not in NXT. He carefully puts together a card with matches and stories people want to see. Vince is booking the bullshit we see on tv each week thats making viewers turn away by the thousands. You can call NXT developmental but there is nothing developmental about NXT takeover and the main matches on NXT tv. NXT is as major league as any other roster or promotion but they also have developmental featured within the brand. You dont see the developmental projects on tv,they are just part of the brand. The NXT roster is full of super talented people that came from other promotions-they are not developmental. NXT is a place for new people to learn the wwe system. If NXT is developmental then the main roster should be embarrassed that the better wrestling ppvs are Takeover specials done by "developmental talent".

I couldn't disagree more about this statement. Yeah, I agree that HHH booked logically, but he also have the luxury of only having 4 hours of tv to tapes per months which is easier then booking 22 hours of live tv to produce every months like vince does.

You also have to realise that NXT doesn't have to be on the road every week like the main roster have so the wrestlers have a lot more time to practice their takeover matches which help those takeover events in the end.

For me, that's the biggest pet peeves of mind when somebody compared nxt, which is the minor leagues, to wwe main roster because in my mind, their not in the same league. A lot of NXT stars aren't well booked in NXT and that's why they fail in wwe. Just look at tyler breeze, no way jose, tye dillinger, ec3 just to use these 4. They were use as jobber in nxt or in the case of EC3 they just didn't care. So how is WWE capable of doing something with these guys that meant nothing in the minors? They can't really. Others like gargano and matt riddle, need a lot of works in certain area but they don't trained them and let them be the indy version of the characters because that's what that crowd want to see. So when they get called up, they will fail miserably because they aren't ready for the main roster.

NXT as to pick what they want to be, do they want to be a developmental system or one of the main brand. If you want to be a developmental system be one and actually help those guys elevate their games because right now, they only have a handful of stars that are ready for the main roster and most of those stars aren't the main event guys of the NXT roster. If they want to be a top brand, then stop calling up nxt guys to the main roster and treat it as a major brand. Maybe take it off the network and shop it around to get a more major mainstream exposure. HHH as a long way to go before he's able to do what vince does week in and week out, that's why he hasn't been in a creative position on the main roster yet.

HHH his learning from the best and will be a good replacement for vince especially since his way of booking is the same as what vince use to do in the 80's. He's trying to kill the indy scene by taking all the big stars just like vince did in the 80's. The nxt booking is the same as what vince for decades as if you looked at old superstars, wrestling challenge, raw or even wweecw, you can see that this style of booking for a one hour show isn't new. So HHH isn't doing anything that Vince wouldn't do.

Sorry for the long rant but that's my number one pet peeves when somebody compare nxt to wwe and say it's on the same level as main roster WWE.

 

[adalah]

Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion

 

[d_henderson1810]

Anybody that start comparing NXT to The main roster and says how HHH would do a better job booking the main roster then Vince based on how the nxt product is.


I couldnt disagree with that more.

HHH books logical. Vince doesnt .
HHH builds stars in NXT thru his booking-you have to be blind to not see that. Its not his fault that vince drops the ball everytime someone gets called up.You build and create stars by booking strong not by 50 50 booking which we see all over the main roster and not in NXT. He carefully puts together a card with matches and stories people want to see. Vince is booking the bullshit we see on tv each week thats making viewers turn away by the thousands. You can call NXT developmental but there is nothing developmental about NXT takeover and the main matches on NXT tv. NXT is as major league as any other roster or promotion but they also have developmental featured within the brand. You dont see the developmental projects on tv,they are just part of the brand. The NXT roster is full of super talented people that came from other promotions-they are not developmental. NXT is a place for new people to learn the wwe system. If NXT is developmental then the main roster should be embarrassed that the better wrestling ppvs are Takeover specials done by "developmental talent".

A few things.

First of all, the irony of Triple H building stars, since, when he was wrestling, he was one of the most selfish pricks in the ring.

This talent in NXT he waxes lyrical about, if any of them had come around 2002 on, Triple H wouldn't have put them over because he rates their talent and wants them to look good. He would have buried the young upstart for threatening his position on the card.

Secondly, you act like Vince doesn't know how to build stars. Ever heard of Terra Ryzing, "Mean" Mark Calloway, or Sterling Golden. Vince turned them into Triple H, The Undertaker and Hulk Hogan.

He has made many stars and household names. Hulk Hogan became huge under Vince, "Stone Cold" did okay in WCW, but became bigger in WWE, Calloway was just another generic big man, but Vince gave him the most enduring and popular gimmick of all time.

Most wrestlers in WWE became bigger stars in WWE.

Also, on Vince booking all the bullshit every week. I hope you aren't one of these guys who thought that Vince Russo was a hack, because when I point out that Russo was head writer during the Attitude Era, people say that he only did that good because he had Vince McMahon supervising him. But if you think Vince McMahon doesn't know good writing, then this argument falls apart.

I bet you are someone who thinks YOU know how to run a wrestling show better than a guy who has done it for 35 years.

You just think that NXT is full of super talented people because you WANT to like it better than the main roster. You blind yourself to NXT's faults, and find faults on RAW and SD, because you go looking for something to criticise. I doubt you are even a lover of professional wrestling.

 

[Psykohurricane55]

A few things.

First of all, the irony of Triple H building stars, since, when he was wrestling, he was one of the most selfish pricks in the ring.

This talent in NXT he waxes lyrical about, if any of them had come around 2002 on, Triple H wouldn't have put them over because he rates their talent and wants them to look good. He would have buried the young upstart for threatening his position on the card.

Secondly, you act like Vince doesn't know how to build stars. Ever heard of Terra Ryzing, "Mean" Mark Calloway, or Sterling Golden. Vince turned them into Triple H, The Undertaker and Hulk Hogan.

He has made many stars and household names. Hulk Hogan became huge under Vince, "Stone Cold" did okay in WCW, but became bigger in WWE, Calloway was just another generic big man, but Vince gave him the most enduring and popular gimmick of all time.

Most wrestlers in WWE became bigger stars in WWE.

Also, on Vince booking all the bullshit every week. I hope you aren't one of these guys who thought that Vince Russo was a hack, because when I point out that Russo was head writer during the Attitude Era, people say that he only did that good because he had Vince McMahon supervising him. But if you think Vince McMahon doesn't know good writing, then this argument falls apart.

I bet you are someone who thinks YOU know how to run a wrestling show better than a guy who has done it for 35 years.

You just think that NXT is full of super talented people because you WANT to like it better than the main roster. You blind yourself to NXT's faults, and find faults on RAW and SD, because you go looking for something to criticise. I doubt you are even a lover of professional wrestling.

Completely agree with you on most of the stuff you wrote but i just want to point out a couple of things.

1. The conception that HHH would have buried anybody that would have on the roster in 2002 while i get your point, He was the man and he elevate guys that Vince wanted to elevate at the time. The notion of somebody wanting to protect their spot isn't new in wrestling and it's still going on now.

2. Vince didn't make Hogan, he gave him a bigger platform but Technicly Verne Gagne and the AWA made Hogan as he was a huge megastar with that exact character in the AWA, Vince just saw how popular the Hogan character was in the AWA and sign him to a huge contract and made him the face of the company

Outside of that, you're pretty much on the money with you're comment.

 

[rocknrollchick5]

For me, the first thing that comes to mind is the ridiculous CM Punk chants. Sure, as fans, we can chant whatever we want. But the whole CM Punk chants at least in my mind are absolutely pointless. The What chants, I think are great as it pisses off the heels, but just hearing random chants of CM Punk is more than annoying.

And second, wasting talented wrestlers. I'm not saying we've got some awesome wrestlers who we see every week in Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Ricochet, Dolph Ziggler, the New Day, Cesaro, Braun, Drew McIntyre, Becky, Nikki, Alexa, and Ember to name a small group, but it would be nice to mix things up and see guys like Sheamus, Rusev, Randy Orton, Nattie, Naomi....some guys and girls that we haven't seen in a while. I'm no math genius by any means, but I'm about 80% sure we see the same guys and girls every week is for storyline building purposes. Still would be nice to see some different wrestlers on Raw and Smackdown.

and lastly, Brock Lesnar. Well because he's Brock Lesnar. He shouldn't be Mr. Money In The Bank, for the sole purpose that whenever he's Universal/WWE champion, he basically holds the title hostage. If they're gonna keep him around as a part timer and he happens to cash in for a Universal/WWE championship shot, have him fail. Part time champs are no good! Save him as a special attraction. I understand his advocate, Paul Heyman, (who I may not be the hugest fan of but I'll give it to him, he knows his stuff, an is a wrestling genius. So I do have a lot of respect for him, especially since ECW was practically in my backyard of Philly.) is head of creative on Raw, but still, having Brock as our part time champ just hurts the rest of the guys in the locker room in the long run. Having a full time champ is a much better idea. Brock may be a huge muscular beast, but I was never a fan of his. Especially now with his recent returns and last two Universal reigns. He was a part time champ, plain and simple. What Paul SHOULD have announced whenever he introduced Brock wasn't 'your reigning, defending, undisputed universal champion Brrrrrrrrrrock Lesssssssnarrrrrr!' It should've been 'your reigning, not defending, disputed, part time champion Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrock Lessssssssssssnarrrr!'

 

[d_henderson1810]

For me, the first thing that comes to mind is the ridiculous CM Punk chants. Sure, as fans, we can chant whatever we want. But the whole CM Punk chants at least in my mind are absolutely pointless. The What chants, I think are great as it pisses off the heels, but just hearing random chants of CM Punk is more than annoying.

And second, wasting talented wrestlers. I'm not saying we've got some awesome wrestlers who we see every week in Seth Rollins, Roman Reigns, AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Ricochet, Dolph Ziggler, the New Day, Cesaro, Braun, Drew McIntyre, Becky, Nikki, Alexa, and Ember to name a small group, but it would be nice to mix things up and see guys like Sheamus, Rusev, Randy Orton, Nattie, Naomi....some guys and girls that we haven't seen in a while. I'm no math genius by any means, but I'm about 80% sure we see the same guys and girls every week is for storyline building purposes. Still would be nice to see some different wrestlers on Raw and Smackdown.

and lastly, Brock Lesnar. Well because he's Brock Lesnar. He shouldn't be Mr. Money In The Bank, for the sole purpose that whenever he's Universal/WWE champion, he basically holds the title hostage. If they're gonna keep him around as a part timer and he happens to cash in for a Universal/WWE championship shot, have him fail. Part time champs are no good! Save him as a special attraction. I understand his advocate, Paul Heyman, (who I may not be the hugest fan of but I'll give it to him, he knows his stuff, an is a wrestling genius. So I do have a lot of respect for him, especially since ECW was practically in my backyard of Philly.) is head of creative on Raw, but still, having Brock as our part time champ just hurts the rest of the guys in the locker room in the long run. Having a full time champ is a much better idea. Brock may be a huge muscular beast, but I was never a fan of his. Especially now with his recent returns and last two Universal reigns. He was a part time champ, plain and simple. What Paul SHOULD have announced whenever he introduced Brock wasn't 'your reigning, defending, undisputed universal champion Brrrrrrrrrrock Lesssssssnarrrrrr!' It should've been 'your reigning, not defending, disputed, part time champion Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrock Lessssssssssssnarrrr!'

1. Agree on the 'CM Punk" chants. I agree with what you said with the "What" chants, and love when a heel like Mr McMahon or Stephanie mocks the crowd for doing it.

2. Sheamus I think is injured, otherwise he and Cesaro would still be in the tag division as the Bar.

As for the others, this is a problem WWE is going to run into. They have TOO MANY wrestlers on their roster. New talent is coming up from NXT all the time.

This is why I think Vince shouldn't panic if some talent goes to AEW, as it means less talent to write for and pay. If someone wanted a release to go to AEW, depending on who they are, let them. You don't want to lose a Dean Ambrose, but it doesn't matter if you lose Luke Harper.

3. I agree about Brock. He is the most overrated, entitled prick in WWE. He gets his own way all the time.

Personally, I would lowball him, and if he leaves, he leaves. He isn't part of programs most of the time, puts no-one over, and has made no-one a star. I would rather keep the Universal belt on Seth Rollins, who works harder, is better in the ring and on the mike, and actually shows up every week.

However, I USED to like Paul Heyman, the owner of ECW, the commentator during the Invasion, the man who stood up to Vince. But Brock Lesnar is Heyman's kryptonite.

Before, Heyman cut interesting promos. Now, he only ever repeats, over and over, "My client....Brock Lesnar" and all the other things you say he says. The sooner Heyman and Brock are separated, the better.

Besides, I lost respect for Heyman when he defends Brock's schedule and massive pay packet on podcasts, yet hasn't used the money he makes being Brock's manager (in real life as well as on screen) to pay backpay to all the ECW talent he stiffed who never got paid the last six months of ECW's existence, and he made promises to hang out and go without now, for a brighter and more prosperous future (and payday) down the track when ECW got its shit together. Well, it never got its shit together and those wrestlers never got paid. So I hope Heyman uses his now-found wealth taking a slice of Brock's obscene, undeserved paycheque to pay the ECW talent what they are owed for breaking their bodies for him.

 

[rocknrollchick5]

1. Agree on the 'CM Punk" chants. I agree with what you said with the "What" chants, and love when a heel like Mr McMahon or Stephanie mocks the crowd for doing it.

2. Sheamus I think is injured, otherwise he and Cesaro would still be in the tag division as the Bar.

As for the others, this is a problem WWE is going to run into. They have TOO MANY wrestlers on their roster. New talent is coming up from NXT all the time.

This is why I think Vince shouldn't panic if some talent goes to AEW, as it means less talent to write for and pay. If someone wanted a release to go to AEW, depending on who they are, let them. You don't want to lose a Dean Ambrose, but it doesn't matter if you lose Luke Harper.

3. I agree about Brock. He is the most overrated, entitled prick in WWE. He gets his own way all the time.

Personally, I would lowball him, and if he leaves, he leaves. He isn't part of programs most of the time, puts no-one over, and has made no-one a star. I would rather keep the Universal belt on Seth Rollins, who works harder, is better in the ring and on the mike, and actually shows up every week.

However, I USED to like Paul Heyman, the owner of ECW, the commentator during the Invasion, the man who stood up to Vince. But Brock Lesnar is Heyman's kryptonite.

Before, Heyman cut interesting promos. Now, he only ever repeats, over and over, "My client....Brock Lesnar" and all the other things you say he says. The sooner Heyman and Brock are separated, the better.

Besides, I lost respect for Heyman when he defends Brock's schedule and massive pay packet on podcasts, yet hasn't used the money he makes being Brock's manager (in real life as well as on screen) to pay backpay to all the ECW talent he stiffed who never got paid the last six months of ECW's existence, and he made promises to hang out and go without now, for a brighter and more prosperous future (and payday) down the track when ECW got its shit together. Well, it never got its shit together and those wrestlers never got paid. So I hope Heyman uses his now-found wealth taking a slice of Brock's obscene, undeserved paycheque to pay the ECW talent what they are owed for breaking their bodies for him.

Couldn't agree with you more. Especially about Brock. We get it, he doesn't like people. He's introverted and a loner. But there are billions of other individuals who are the same way. I happen to be one of them. I have social anxiety and am very introverted. Plenty of other celebrities and pro athletes I'm sure are the same way. Yeah they get special treatment, but I'm thinking of other wrestlers in the WWE and all around the world who are the same way. First person that came to mind was Daniel Bryan. Anyone who's ever watched Total Bellas, Total Divas, or read his book know he's normally very soft spoken and introverted. Erick Rowan may be his insurance policy, security guard, manager, and tag team partner/co tag team champion, but he isn't Daniel's manager in real life. And Daniel actually shows up every week. That just shows Brock's true colors. That he is one of the biggest douchebags in the WWE locker room, has absolutely zero respect for his fellow wrestlers, and is just an overrated jerk. I do remember reading somewhere that Paul was his manager in real life as well. They might as well go have bromance together! I know they both have families, but for real, the fact that they spend so much time together really makes me think they should just go off and have a bromance. It's sickening. Can't believe he had to pay back all the ECW wrestlers who busted their butts for him. I also liked when Paul was on commentary for awhile when he still had his hair and wore it in a ponytail with a baseball cap. I thought he was cool then. Now when Brock's around, he just sounds like this hyper borderline angry robot that can only say My client...Brock Lesnar.

I didn't know Sheamus was hurt. That sucks. He's awesome. Hope he feels better soon.

I will agree with you that their roster is practically overflowing. I do see NXT stars popping up like weeds all the time. Really think a cleanout would benefit them. I can see Vince being nervous if he did a cleanout that some guys and girls would go to AEW. It's such a shame what they did to Luke Harper. Tacked on like 6 more months onto his contract but aren't using him once he was cleared to compete. It's so sad. Luke's a great wrestler. So agile for a very tall guy.

And really, people need to shut up with this CM Punk crap. So annoying.

Definitely keep the belt around Seth. He's a great champion, such a hard worker, and knows how to put on a great match.

Brock really needs lessons on how to put people over. Just saying...I hate that he refuses to put others over. It's important to put others over as we all know. Especially with newer and younger wrestlers. But nope, he refuses to. Just goes to show what type of attitude he has. He's pathetic.

 

[oneguy]

There's absolutely zero proof he was sick. ZERO. When an individual or organization has been factually proven to lie on a regular basis, evidence is required to prove they're being truthful, not that they're lying again.

So doctor and hospital reports don't count as proof now? I bet you are still waiting for Obama's birth certificate aren't you? I bet you are one of the morons who think the Chris Benoit murders was actually an inside coverup. I take back my original comment. You're not a piece of garbage. You're just a complete idiot who should be castrated to avoid the possibility of giving birth to future idiots.

 

[oneguy]

Commentators, specifically Cole and Saxson who oversell every pin attempt. It's like dude. Calm down. It was just a clothes line. No one is going to believe that will finish the guy.

 

[Aquaman6686]

So doctor and hospital reports don't count as proof now? I bet you are still waiting for Obama's birth certificate aren't you? I bet you are one of the morons who think the Chris Benoit murders was actually an inside coverup. I take back my original comment. You're not a piece of garbage. You're just a complete idiot who should be castrated to avoid the possibility of giving birth to future idiots.

You're the one accepting "ROMAN REIGNS WAS REALLY SICK OMG NOW I LOVE HIM" with no proof and you have the gall to imply I'm a Trumpster? Reported and blocked.

 

[tvcolosi]

Wrestlers not in a match or “not scheduled to be there” in gear, taped up and in their baby oil.

They have toned this down recently, Owens and Roman will have sort of street clothes in promo segments. Ziggler and Drew too sometimes.