WCW: For Whom The Bell Tolls, Chris Benoit vs. Goldberg

[Shocky]

The following match takes place in the WCW Region, from the georgia Dome in Atlanta, GA.

Match: For Whom the Bell Tolls Cage Match.

The Rules per the Canadian

For Whom the Bell Tolls Cage Match

I have thought this up under several premises, but in this case, the ring bell is actually place atop the cage, on one of the corners, while the hammer with which to strike the bell is hooked on the opposite corner. Objective one - get the hammer by climbing the cage and grabbing it. Simple enough. The hard part is getting the hammer down, and climbing the opposite corner of the cage to ring the bell 3 times. This tolls the bell on your opponent and ends the match.

Standard rules for the cage match apply, including the ability to leave the cage via the door. The only difference is that reaching the arena floor does not end the match. It is perfectly feasible for a guy to grab the hammer, climb out of the cage, and try to scale the outside of the cage to hit the bell. It is possible for a guy to take the hammer out via the door and try to scale the outside of the cage to reach the bell. Everything is cool.

Chris Benoit

vs.

Goldberg

 

[klunderbunker]

This is Benoit's. How can Goldberg climb a cage? Simply put, he can't. At least with nothing close to the speed that it would take to beat Benoit. Benoit doesn't have to beat Goldberg here. He has to outmove him. Goldberg wasn't a smart wrestler at any time in his career. He would always just go full speed ahead and never worry about what happened to him. He had the spear to beat whoever he was against. If you put him against someonet aht was capable of being just as intense as he was, it negates a lot of his ability. Benoit doesn't have to get him to tap, just put him down for awhile. If it's based on speed and it is, Goldberg is gone.

 

[Mr. TM]

In a match, I bet Goldberg doesn't fair well against Benoit as it is. Goldberg would go for a spear, and Benoit would dodge, trip him up, and lock on the crossface for a few minutes, incapacitating him for a good minute. In that time, Benoit climbs the cage, gets the hammer, and hits the headbutt of the top. Id also like to see Benoit bring in a couple ladders into the ring, just to limit Goldberg's bull likeness.

 

[Uncle Sam]

This is a fucking mental match type.

This wouldn't be a decisive win. That's simply because it's that sort of gimmick where there wouldn't be a decisive win. The two would be grappling over the hammer at the top of the cage. At the end of the day, Benoit is more tenacious and slightly more quick and agile. So yeah, Chris Blandoit (see what I did there?) moves on still. Incredible.

 

[Big Sexy]

Let's see Goldberg has never lost a match without some type of interference, and Benoit doesn't have anybody that would help him out so logically Goldberg wins this match.

How can Goldberg climb a cage? Simply put, he can't. At least with nothing close to the speed that it would take to beat Benoit.

What? Why would Goldberg not be able to climb a cage? And Goldberg is more then fast enough to do it quickly, especially after giving Benoit a spear and a jackhammer. Goldberg was a very agile big man so don't give me some bullshit speed argument. The fact is that Goldberg just didn't lose. Not to Hogan, The Giant, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Lex Luger, and I can go on forever. Benoit was very good but he wouldn't beat Goldberg.

 

[JGlass]

I'm going to give this one to Benoit here. To be honest, I think Goldberg is screwed from start to finish in this one. Goldberg will start the match by trying to overpower Benoit, but Benoit is too quick and tricky for that. He'll dodge whatever Goldberg throws at him, and then wear Goldberg down with some suplexes, and some submission moves. After a crippler crossface, Benoit will climb up the cage and grab the hammer. By the time he gets back down, Goldberg will have managed t get back to his feet, and will try once again to do the only thing he knows, overpowering his opponents. But just like at the beginning of the match, Benoit will still dodge him, and this time, he has a hammer, making his job a lot easier. After giving Goldberg another beating, this time with some hammer shots, he'll climb the cage and ring the bell 3 times for the victory.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I'm somewhat on the fence on this one. I could be swayed either way but, regardless, this isn't going to be a match where Goldberg is simply going to walk right through Benoit. I don't recall seeing Goldberg bleed all that much and his overall experience in matches of a somewhat similar type to this doesn't compare to Benoit's.

That being said, this is Goldberg after all. He was booked to be nearly unstoppable in WCW and the idea of him not having the agility to climb the cage to get the hammer and then do all whatever is weak. Goldberg was a big guy, but he wasn't a clumsy ox. Overrated yes, but not clumsy.

 

[Tastycles]

Absolutely Goldberg all of the way. What move could Benoit do to Goldberg that would keep him down for the time it takes him to get the hammer, get down, go to the other side of the ring and ring the bell three times? There isn't one. I imagine what would happen is this: Benoit would get the hammer somehow early on. Then they would duke it out for a while, and Goldberg would get the big moves and the win. I just don't see Benoit beating Goldberg, you have to be truly special to do that.

 

[DhA]

Goldberg all the way, the way to win this match will be to incapacitate your opponent then get the bell, no way in Benoit fast enough to do that with Goldberg right on his heels. Benoit's finishing manovuere puts the opponent in pain, but doesn't incapacitate the for any length of time. It doesn't even work their legs, torso or anything, Goldberg could still walk over and pull Benoit down. He won't have to though, as Benoit will get the wind kncoked out of him with a spear, then get Jackhammered so he stays down whilst Goldberg rings the bell.

 

[SavageTaker]

My vote is on Benoit. But I wouldn't be surprised if Goldberg wins.

Benoit is more technically sound than Goldberg. He is also faster and more agile, which in this match is very important. I think that Benoit is able to climb a cage faster than Goldberg and retrieve the bell or hammer first. Now, what will be a challenge is trying to retrieve the second item.

After Benoit has retrieved the first item, Goldberg will start the pounding and because he knows that if Benoit gets the second item it is immediately over. But, I think that he can do a good job trying to wear down Bill. He can hit the crippler crossface at almost any time. Which helps him a lot. Also he has used the Sharpshooter which will help him even more because if he can keep Bill down long enough to get the second item, then the sharpshooter is the perfect move for that since it targets the legs.


My Vote is on Benoit, but I would not be surprised if Bill wins this match.

 

[X]

I can't believe I'm seeing so much Goldberg love. Goldberg was shit, pure and simple shit. I still don't understand why you all keep taking kayfabe storylines into account in this tournament--- "Goldberg would win cause he was undefeated!"...in a storyline. In WCW. How is that relevant?

Benoit would wipe the floor with Goldberg, there isn't a move Goldberg could do that Benoit couldn't counter.

 

[Tastycles]

I still don't understand why you all keep taking kayfabe storylines into account in this tournament--- "Goldberg would win cause he was undefeated!"...in a storyline. In WCW. How is that relevant?.

Because that is literally the only attitude you can even begin to approach this with. Benoit can't really counter everything Goldberg does, it's just he's booked as a technical wrestler. I'd love to see a guy Benoits size try and counter a punch or a throw from a guy Goldberg's size. Kayfabe is all the wrestling fan has to determine who is better.

Take a guy like Mick Foley or Terry Funk. He can't really take more chair shots than anybody else, it's all fake. Their character is to take the chair shots. None of it really affects them any less than it would you or I. It's the same here. Chris Benoit is a trained pro wrestler, nothing he can do is designed to hurt anyone. You strip kayfabe away from this and you have an american football player against a small man who knows how to do more fake moves than him. Kayfabe wise, Benoit stands a chance, if you take away kayfabe what do you have? A diving headbutt? A crippler crossface? What is that going to do to someone really? Absolutely nothing is what.

 

[Little Jerry Lawler]

Goldberg is sort of quick and agile in his own right I guess. Benoit will utilize the ring to his advantage and he will lock the Crossface in many times to incapicitate Goldberg for enough time that he can ring the bell. Goldberg will put up a decent fight but I see Benoit winning this one.

 

[X]

Because that is literally the only attitude you can even begin to approach this with. Benoit can't really counter everything Goldberg does, it's just he's booked as a technical wrestler. I'd love to see a guy Benoits size try and counter a punch or a throw from a guy Goldberg's size. Kayfabe is all the wrestling fan has to determine who is better.

Being booked as a technical wrestler doesn't make you one however, technical wrestling is an actual tangible, visible skill that you can judge accordingly.

As for the kayfabe comment, I disagree completely. I don't understand why everyone here seems to want to judge these matches like that. Using the kayfabe argument, you could argue that David Arquette would deserve to win in a tourny match against Tank Abbot because he pinned him once.

Why don't you guys judge the tournament for what atleast I thought was the reason it was invented in the first place (as one of the people that was here when it was invented), and that's to determine who is the best all around wrestler of all time. Not who would win in a particular match depending on what kind of match it is.

Take a guy like Mick Foley or Terry Funk. He can't really take more chair shots than anybody else, it's all fake. Their character is to take the chair shots. None of it really affects them any less than it would you or I

...C'mon man, this is a damn wrestling forum, tell me you did not just say that. Chair shots are fake? What the hell are you talking about? Go tell Mick Foley that the dozen or so concussions he's had from steel chairs don't exist because steel chair shots don't hurt at all and are "fake".

As a wrestling fan I'd think you would know that there really isn't any way to fake a chair shot. You just have to actually hit them with a chair.

It's the same here. Chris Benoit is a trained pro wrestler, nothing he can do is designed to hurt anyone. You strip kayfabe away from this and you have an american football player against a small man who knows how to do more fake moves than him. Kayfabe wise, Benoit stands a chance, if you take away kayfabe what do you have? A diving headbutt? A crippler crossface? What is that going to do to someone really? Absolutely nothing is what.

I'm sorry man but what are you talking about? Are you seriously going to tell me that wrestling moves don't hurt? Have you ever been power bombed? Ever been DDTed? Ever been body slammed on an actual ring? How does being slammed onto a ring with all the softness of a sidewalk not hurt?

Obviously wrestling is fake. But to contend that the moves themselves don't hurt and are all pretend, is just beyond ridiculious.

Goldberg was shit. Pure shit. Couldn't cut a promo to save his life, and his in-ring skills were extremely lacking. Benoit couldn't cut a promo either, but he was certainly a far superior in-ring specimen then Goldberg could've prayed to be.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Benoit's a son of a bitch. Just had to get that out of the way. This match is about disabling your opponent to the point of taking the time to climb a cage, grab a hammer, go to the other side and ring the bell.

This favors Goldberg, because Goldberg's tough. We can say he no sells a lot of shit, but he's also legit tough. So is Benoit, but he's dumb enough to knock himself out with a missed headbutt from the top of the cage. Killoit is quicker than Goldyberg, but the Crippler would also be sadistic enough to use the damn hammer on the Jewish Hammer.

I take Goldberg. He's tough, can win, and fuck Chris Benoit.

 

[Tastycles]

Being booked as a technical wrestler doesn't make you one however, technical wrestling is an actual tangible, visible skill that you can judge accordingly.

And being strong and powerful isn't? Goldberg lifted a 500 pound man up in the air above his head. That is a visible skill isn't it? I can judge that Goldberg is immensly more powerful and strong than Benoit from that one move easier than I can judge Benoit is a better technical wrestler from watching his 20 year career.

As for the kayfabe comment, I disagree completely. I don't understand why everyone here seems to want to judge these matches like that. Using the kayfabe argument, you could argue that David Arquette would deserve to win in a tourny match against Tank Abbot because he pinned him once.

Well, yes, you could argue that. But then if you considered when they were both at their peak, you could argue that Abbot wouldn't have lost.

Why don't you guys judge the tournament for what atleast I thought was the reason it was invented in the first place (as one of the people that was here when it was invented), and that's to determine who is the best all around wrestler of all time. Not who would win in a particular match depending on what kind of match it is.

Well what's the point in the match types then? What's the point in the regions? What's the point in running the tournament more than once? The consideration f all of those points has led me to the conclusion that it is a kayfabe tournament.

...C'mon man, this is a damn wrestling forum, tell me you did not just say that. Chair shots are fake? What the hell are you talking about? Go tell Mick Foley that the dozen or so concussions he's had from steel chairs don't exist because steel chair shots don't hurt at all and are "fake"

.

That's not what I said is it. I said he can't really take any more than anybody else, that's just built into his character. I'm sure if I hit a guy like Snitsky on the head with a chair, it would affect him exactly the same as it would Mick Foley, but in wrestling world, Snitsky would be worse affected by it, that's kayfabe. The pain may be real, but the effect it has is fake, all of these guys have a high threshold for pain, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

As a wrestling fan I'd think you would know that there really isn't any way to fake a chair shot. You just have to actually hit them with a chair.

Again, that's not what I said, but to quote New Jack "You show me 20 clips of Benoit getting hit upside the head with a chair, and I'll show you him raise his hand in the way 20 times." So, you can't fake it, but you can reduce the impact, but that wasn't my point.

I'm sorry man but what are you talking about? Are you seriously going to tell me that wrestling moves don't hurt? Have you ever been power bombed? Ever been DDTed? Ever been body slammed on an actual ring? How does being slammed onto a ring with all the softness of a sidewalk not hurt?

Let's address my point shall we. I said, Goldberg, who could feasibly do all of those things you just said if Benoit wasn sandbagging him to Chris Benoit, would be more capable of hurting Benoit, who couldn't do any of them to Goldberg. Benoit's main three offensive moves: Crippler Crossface, German Suplex, Diving Headbutt. Tell me which ones of them he could do to hurt a guy like Goldberg without the help of kayfabe.

Obviously wrestling is fake. But to contend that the moves themselves don't hurt and are all pretend, is just beyond ridiculious.

That's not what I said. What I said was you need kayfabe to explain why a guy like Benoit could take down a guy like The Big Show. The only reason that these two guys could get in the ring in the first place is because wrestling doesn't have weight classes, it has kayfabe.

Goldberg was shit. Pure shit. Couldn't cut a promo to save his life, and his in-ring skills were extremely lacking. Benoit couldn't cut a promo either, but he was certainly a far superior in-ring specimen then Goldberg could've prayed to be.

While I'd probably rather watch a Benoit match than a Goldberg match, I would seriously question putting Benoit's drawing ability over Goldberg's. We're talking about a guy that WCW let walk out of the door, do you seriously think that if Goldberg had asked for a release, he'd have got it?

In summation, there's no point in this tournament having anything except being a seeded single elimination competition if it has nothing to do with Kayfabe. Otherwise, the towns, regions, gimmicks etc. are all completely pointless. In a kayfabe setting, Goldberg would beat Benoit. In a shoot fight, Goldberg would beat Benoit, in the only objective measure of who's better, ratings and merchandising value, Goldberg would beat Benoit. So, in everything but a minority's opinion of who they liked to watch more, Goldberg would beat Benoit.

 

[Hip2bsquare]

Goldberg wins this one.

Benoit maybe a good techician, but Goldberg in his prime was a beast and damn near unstoppable and I dont think that the gimmick in this match narrows the gap between the two enough to get Benoit over.

Yes it would be a good match and pretty brutal I htink. But really does Benoit have anything to put Goldberg dow long enough to climb the cage and get the hammer then get across to ring th bell? I dont think so. On the other hand Goldbrtg has a few power moves that will put Benoit down for long enough to get the job done.

Its not like Goldberg is some 500lb fat ass, he has some speed and enough to get the job done.

Benoit has Goldberg down and he thinks beaten, goes for a flying headbutt to make sure of it, Goldberg gets out of the way, Benoit stumbles around for a bit, Goldberg spears him then gives him a Jackhammer. Grabs the hammer and rings the bell... Goldberg wins.

 

[ztwhite]

I'm somewhat on the fence on this one.

Shouldn't you be "on the cage" on this one ???

Either way, I'm taking Goldberg.

For some strange reason, I have a feeling Benoit would get to the top of the cage and his roid rage would kick in, allowing him to assume that in order to win, he has to hit the flying headbutt.

Goldberg rolls out of the way, hits the Jackhammer and easily makes it to both corners for the ding-dong.

 

[Lesnar_Fan2003]

This is Benoit's. How can Goldberg climb a cage? Simply put, he can't. At least with nothing close to the speed that it would take to beat Benoit. Benoit doesn't have to beat Goldberg here. He has to outmove him. Goldberg wasn't a smart wrestler at any time in his career. He would always just go full speed ahead and never worry about what happened to him. He had the spear to beat whoever he was against. If you put him against someonet aht was capable of being just as intense as he was, it negates a lot of his ability. Benoit doesn't have to get him to tap, just put him down for awhile. If it's based on speed and it is, Goldberg is gone.

He doesn't have to outquick Benoit. He can just pound him like ground beef into the ring mat until he is unconcious. Then he can take his sweet old time getting the hammer and ringing the bell. Benoit would try to wear down Goldberg with submissions, but I doubt it would phase a man as strong as Goldberg. Goldberg rarely lost and this being a tournament based on kayfabe Goldberg should destroy Benoit. He could spear him six times if he had to put him down with a Jackhammer Slam throw him into the cage like a battering ram, take your pick. Benoit wouldn't beat Goldberg.

 

[X]

Goldberg rarely lost and this being a tournament based on kayfabe Goldberg should destroy Benoit. He could spear him six times if he had to put him down with a Jackhammer Slam throw him into the cage like a battering ram, take your pick.

Where is everyone getting this idea that the rules of this tournament say you must judge the matches based on kayfabe storylines?

The Voting Process: This is the most subjective part of the entire tournament. How should I vote? Honestly, I'm not here to tell you how to vote. What determines a great wrestler to one person determines a boring wrestler for another. Whatever voting credentials you come up with will suffice.

Where does it mention the "Must Judge by Kayfabe" rule that you guys keep citing?

 

[Big Sexy]

Where is everyone getting this idea that the rules of this tournament say you must judge the matches based on kayfabe storylines?



Where does it mention the "Must Judge by Kayfabe" rule that you guys keep citing?

There isn't one, but that is how a lot of people have chosen to judge it as. If you judge it based on wrestling ability then Benoit wins. If you judge it based on kayfabe then Goldberg wins.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

thank fucking YOU Xfear.

the tournament has NO solid guidlines on how to vote, it says you can vote however the fuck you want to. and the original purpose of the tournament WAS to decide the best ever. So everyone can stop being silly now.

From that standpoint., id likely take Benoit over Goldberg in pretty much any match, especially one like this, were quickness and conditioning, combined with burtality are necessary. Goldberg was undefeated, yea, but that was in normal pin for the 1-2-3 matches.

Well, that, and Benoit is ten time the accomplished worker that Goldberg EVER was. People remember the streak so fondly, but what did he do outside of the streak? not much.

 

[Razor]

So...why can't Benoit get the hammer, scale the outside, run around, and ring the bell before Goldberg can catch up to him? It says in the rules he can do just that. So for anyone saying Benoit can't overpower Goldberg....ok. But he doesn't have to. Not at all. Just avoid him. And I'm sure Benoit can do that.

I'm voting for Benoit. Why? Because I want to. I like him better than Goldberg, and I honestly think Benoit could be fast enough to outmaneuver Goldberg. The spear is all well and good until Benoit's grabbed the hammer and dodged to the outside of the cage. Then when Goldberg chases him outside, Benoit simply has to climb back in and ring the bell. Not that hard. Not at all.

 

[DhA]

Jokes on you guys because people who want to judge it as a kayfabe tournament will likely vote Goldberg, whereas people who want to vote on some imagined "wrestling skill" will vote Benoit, when in reality that's stupid. Norcal, would you put Malenko over Hogan? No. This is that but on a less dramatic scale.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I do half and half.


and No I wouldnt, becuase Hogan is ten times the wrestler Malenko could ever hope top be, kayfabe, and in reality.

I sited both reasons. Kayfabe, what has Goldberg ever done in matches that werent one on one regular squahses? Certainley nothing ever in a match like this. The advantage goes to the smaller, more agile man.

Not to mention, Benoit is ten times the worker Goldberg is.