WCW Boston, Round 3, Match 1: #4 John Cena vs. #13 Goldberg
- Thread starter Shocky
- Start date
WOW. Arguably the two biggest stars in their separate company's facing off. They are about equal in strength, equal in agility, and equal in will-to win. That being said I have to give Goldberg the edge. It is in his backyard. His company that he lost a total of 7 times in I believe. Where the streak happened. The man had an intensity level that I have never seen matched by anybody. Bill beat everybody there was to beat here in WCW. He beat the biggest legend in wrestling history in Hulk Hogan. He fucking jackhammered the big show. The man has so much intensity and will power I cannot see him losing here, no matter how great Cena is. I am a huge Cena mark, but also a huge Goldberg mark, and him in his backyard, will not lose.
Goldberg is one of the most awful wrestlers to ever step foot in a wrestling ring. I don’t care how over he was… the dude was horrendous. He’s had about three good matches his entire career, and the ONLY reason he was over was because the way he was booked. He had a good lil’ intensity about him that came off well, but it was ultimately the booking and the wrestlers selling their asses off for him as to why he got so over. It didn’t have anything to do with wrestling ability. It didn’t have anything to do with promo ability. And it didn’t have anything to do with charisma. Eric Bischoff just knew what he was doing when it came to Goldberg and HE created a success for his company…. that, for the record, only lasted around 2 years, tops.
John Cena, on the other hand, is establishing himself as one of the greatest WWE wrestlers of all time. He is as over as anyone ever has been, no matter what the ‘ratings’ say, and he’s been so since 2004. And he first got over on his own. WWE didn’t help him. Hell, they basically tried to bury him. They gave him some boring, generic gimmick like they do all muscle guys, and he was doomed to fail. But Cena had the balls to go to creative and say, “I want to try this” and it made him a true superstar.
Cena made himself into the legend he is becoming, whereas Goldberg was made by Eric Bischoff. Not to mention… Cena is a tremendous wrestler. He has at least 10 classic matches under his belt already, and probably around 50 matches that most would consider to be “very good”. His charisma is off the charts, and he has the intensity to match Goldberg. Plus, his promo ability is WAY ahead of Goldberg’s, as well.
As far as kayfabe is concerned… Cena would kick Goldberg’s ass. I don’t give a flying fuck where this match is taking place. Cena’s character has as much heart as any wrestler to ever compete in the wrestling industry. He’s more powerful than Goldberg, ten times smarter, ten times tougher, and just as fast and agile as that worthless motherfucker. Cena would never, ever lose to this guy. WCW or not.
Cena beats Goldberg in every aspect imaginable. There’s no excuse to vote for Goldberg in this round; Cena should pass here and it shouldn’t be close.
John Cena, on the other hand, is establishing himself as one of the greatest WWE wrestlers of all time. He is as over as anyone ever has been, no matter what the ‘ratings’ say, and he’s been so since 2004. And he first got over on his own. WWE didn’t help him. Hell, they basically tried to bury him. They gave him some boring, generic gimmick like they do all muscle guys, and he was doomed to fail. But Cena had the balls to go to creative and say, “I want to try this” and it made him a true superstar.
Cena made himself into the legend he is becoming, whereas Goldberg was made by Eric Bischoff. Not to mention… Cena is a tremendous wrestler. He has at least 10 classic matches under his belt already, and probably around 50 matches that most would consider to be “very good”. His charisma is off the charts, and he has the intensity to match Goldberg. Plus, his promo ability is WAY ahead of Goldberg’s, as well.
As far as kayfabe is concerned… Cena would kick Goldberg’s ass. I don’t give a flying fuck where this match is taking place. Cena’s character has as much heart as any wrestler to ever compete in the wrestling industry. He’s more powerful than Goldberg, ten times smarter, ten times tougher, and just as fast and agile as that worthless motherfucker. Cena would never, ever lose to this guy. WCW or not.
Cena beats Goldberg in every aspect imaginable. There’s no excuse to vote for Goldberg in this round; Cena should pass here and it shouldn’t be close.
What? I know Cena had his superman run, but at least people weren't bored during Goldberg's undefeated streak. The dude would flatten Cena, not in a quick match but he would. He beat the guy Cena is a copy of, Hogan, and the fans went wild. In WCW, no way Cena wins. Cena is a good guy, and so won't use a tazer, the only way Goldberg's streak was ended (I'm taking that as his prime). Kayfabe, Goldberg would win, hands down.
He's beaten
Raven
Scott Hall
HULK HOGAN
Curt Henning
The Giant/Big Show
Sting
Bam Bam Bigelow
DDP
Sid Vicious/Psycho Sid
Scott Steiner
Lex Luger
The Rock
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Triple H
Batista
Brock Lesnar
Now I know Cena is good, but that's a who's who list of 90's/2000's wrestlers pretty much.
He's beaten
Raven
Scott Hall
HULK HOGAN
Curt Henning
The Giant/Big Show
Sting
Bam Bam Bigelow
DDP
Sid Vicious/Psycho Sid
Scott Steiner
Lex Luger
The Rock
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Triple H
Batista
Brock Lesnar
Now I know Cena is good, but that's a who's who list of 90's/2000's wrestlers pretty much.
It's...Baylariat!
Team Finnley Baylor
Well, this is the match of the tournament so far. You have John Cena, a man who has a limited wrestling repertoire and the ability to bring the crowd to a frenzy, and you have THE MAN! You have Goldberg. The man who beat everyone in WCW at one time or another with the same limited move set that Cena has. Hall, Nash, HOGAN, Raven, Giant have all fallen to the jackhammer. And although it was a limited time in WWE, he beat The ROCK!, HHH and Jericho at their peeks with the same domination.
Cena's beaten them all, too. But this is power v/s power. Goldberg can hurt you. He can hit the spear, and trust me, Edge's spear is not anywhere near the level of a Goldberg spear. And the Jackhammer puts them ALL down. Cena can also hurt you, but his flashy 'U Can't C Me' move will not bode well for him if he tries it on Goldberg.
And the Throwback/FU/Attitude Adjuster isn't all that impressive. He puts you on his shoulders and throws you on your back. Goldberg kicks out of it. It'll be a brutal match and I expect a lot of powerhouse moves, but I'm giving this to Goldberg. Simply because the Spear and Jackhammer puts them all down, and Goldberg doesn't tap out to ANY submissions, either.
I hope this is close...really close. But I'm voting Goldberg.
Cena's beaten them all, too. But this is power v/s power. Goldberg can hurt you. He can hit the spear, and trust me, Edge's spear is not anywhere near the level of a Goldberg spear. And the Jackhammer puts them ALL down. Cena can also hurt you, but his flashy 'U Can't C Me' move will not bode well for him if he tries it on Goldberg.
And the Throwback/FU/Attitude Adjuster isn't all that impressive. He puts you on his shoulders and throws you on your back. Goldberg kicks out of it. It'll be a brutal match and I expect a lot of powerhouse moves, but I'm giving this to Goldberg. Simply because the Spear and Jackhammer puts them all down, and Goldberg doesn't tap out to ANY submissions, either.
I hope this is close...really close. But I'm voting Goldberg.
People aren't bored with Cena, either. If people were bored, then he wouldn't get any reaction whenever he comes out. But when he does come out, EVERYBODY is on their feet chanting something at him. No other wrestler from this generation can claim that, whereas there were a bunch of wrestlers from Goldberg's era who could, because fans were just more rowdy back then.
And if Goldberg is so exciting, then how come his matches in WWE didn't get any reactions? The matches against Trips and Jericho, people just sat on their asses and didn't say a damn thing. And you don't want me to bring up the Brock Lesnar match, do you?
Horseshit. Show me one person who has "flattened" Cena.
Umm... no, Cena is NOTHING like the Hulk Hogan first of all. And besides, Goldberg beat Hogan went he was portraying a cowardly heel. Let him beat Hogan as the Hulkster and then maybe you'd have an argument.
Whatever dude. A fucking spear and jackhammer (gayest name for a move ever, btw) isn't going to put down Cena.
Plus, Cena has showed himself to rise against hostile territories. WWEs ECW One Night Stand 2006... he only loses because of Edge's interference. WWE Unforgiven in Edge's hometown... Cena wins in a TLC match, EDGE's type of match for Christ sake. And you mean to tell me he wouldn't stand a chance against Goldberg in WCW? Give me a fucking break.
Raven
I'm one of the biggest Raven fans on the planet, but Cena would destroy him kayfabe wise in WCW.
And? Like Scott Hall in WCW was something special to beat?
Like I said, a cowardly heel Hulk Hogan. He never beat face Hogan.
Again, so? He beat a redneck who got his ass kicked by Master P. Whoop-de-fucking-do. He didn't beat Mr. Perfect.
Cena's beaten him and he's done so more convincingly and in WAY better matches then Goldberg had against him.
Interference every single time, if I remember correctly.
Cena beat Viscera in under four minutes. And besides, Bam Bam was way past him prime when Goldberg beat him.
Like Hogan... he defeated the cowardly heel version of DDP. No big deal.
Sid lost all the time in late WCW.
So? Is this really an accomplishment?
Once again... a cowardly heel Lex Luger and one who was way past his prime, anyway.
Oh for fuck's sake. Another cowardly heel and one who was leaving the company right after the match was over. That win does not count.
How many times has Cena beat Jericho?
Cena wouldn't beat Flair?
Cena beat HHH on the biggest stage of them all.
Jesus... so he beat Batista when he was jobber, props to Goldberg.
Look at what I said about The Rock.
A who's who list of wrestlers playing pussy heels, and a who's who list of wrestlers way past their prime when Goldberg defeated them. Whereas Cena is dominating an Era where nearly everyone is in their primes and you know what? He's has great matches while doing so. Most of those matches you mentioned were absolute shit. But Cena knows how to go over while also giving the fans their money's worth. Goldberg NEVER had that ability.
How has Cena showed he is more powerful? Goldberg fucking Jackhammered the Big Show. Not got him on his shoulders, but over his head, and held him there. That is a bit more impressive. Promo ability has nothing to do with a wrestling match, and neither does who made who's character. It all comes down to in the ring who would win. Goldberg is just as strong if not stronger than Cena. Goldberg has beaten Brock Lesnar, Hulk Hogan, The Giant, and many many more. In my opinion Goldberg should win this.
Dude, you do know how wrestling works, don't you? Big Show JUMPS whenever Goldberg lifts him up for a suplex to help him out. It's not like Goldberg held him up in the air like he did with Disco Inferno or somebody like that. If he could do that, then I would be impressed, but since I know he never could, then it's really no big deal. Cena, on the other hand, lifts Big Show DEAD WEIGHT on his shoulders, at a time when Show is AT LEAST 100 pounds more then what he was in WCW.
Cena is DEFINITELY the stronger wrestler. Anyone who thinks different is completely insane.
But it has to do with one's career. And I'm just pointing out how Cena is better than Goldberg at every single thing you could ever bring up. People can vote for whatever reason they like, and I just want to make it clear that there is NO reason to vote for Goldberg.
False.
And even if it was just that, then Cena would kick Goldberg's ass anyway as I've already explained.
False.
Already gone over this.
I like ya Fizzy, but your opinion is wrong.
As much as I'd like to vote for Cena, if this is a kayfabe wrestling match (which it is) then you can't not vote for Goldberg. He rarely lost in his career and when he did lose there was always some sort of interference. I really don't think Goldberg ever lost a match cleanly in his entire career. Going up against Cena who doesn't really ever cheat and won't get any outside interference help I just don't see how Goldberg loses. It would be a hard fought win, but Goldberg takes it.
While I disagree that Goldberg was shit, I think I'll vote for Cena.
I look at it this way, Goldberg had the streak but that's what Cena's all about, going up against guys who look unstoppable and then stopping them. That is John Cena.
During his Year long World Title run he ended the streaks of Umaga and Khali, while neither are as impressive as Goldberg you've got to remember that this is the Khali that squashed Undertaker, and Cena beat him.
Against most other wrestler's I'd vote for Bill, there are a few exceptions, John Cena is one of them. Goldberg is the odds and Cena is going to overcome them.
I look at it this way, Goldberg had the streak but that's what Cena's all about, going up against guys who look unstoppable and then stopping them. That is John Cena.
During his Year long World Title run he ended the streaks of Umaga and Khali, while neither are as impressive as Goldberg you've got to remember that this is the Khali that squashed Undertaker, and Cena beat him.
Against most other wrestler's I'd vote for Bill, there are a few exceptions, John Cena is one of them. Goldberg is the odds and Cena is going to overcome them.
How do you know Show doesn't jump? Explain to me how exactly you know that he doesn't help Cena either. That's what wrestling is. It's fake. Of course he jumps. Duh.
Cena passes Goldberg in charisma. Goldberg passes Cena in strength. Cena passes Goldberg in speed. Goldberg passes Cena defeating ridiculously crazy, famous wrestlers. Cena has held more championships. Goldberg has had more classic, amazing moments.
Jmt, you must take into account: this is WCW, not WWE. This is when Goldberg was huge. Goldberg was a WCW Heavyweight Champion and a two time WCW United States Champion.
My opinion, they're pretty much equal in wrestling ability, with Cena having a slight speed advantage, and Goldberg having a slight power advantage. Goldberg wins because of WCW and his power.
Stop it, I am on the fence already, you keep going and you'll sway my vote.
As of right now is irrelevant, for example, when we vote on a Kane match we dont use the Kane as of right now because he's a glorified jobber. We use the Kane that squashed Vader and took Undertaker to the limit.
That's why I bought up Umaga and Khali, they may be shit now but at the time they were monsters. Monsters until Cena bought them down, maybe the same fate awaits Goldberg.
Goldberg was almost unbeatable back in the day, but Cena has made a career out of against all odds successes. If we take Goldberg's streak to be his run in WCW, we see that he won the vast majority of his matches in the company. However, people only remember this because he started off successfully.
In the 3 and a half years between his debut and departure he lost six times in singles action. However, looking at the career of Cena from November 2004 to February 2008, a similar period he had losses against Orlando Jordan, Kurt Angle by DQ, Edge by MITB cash in, RVD by MITB cash in, Booker T in the three way championship match, Kevin Federline(!). Which makes 6. None of which were clean singles defeats. So, Cena may not have had a promoted streak, but he was just as hard to beat.
Cena has beaten all kinds of wrestlers over the years, and does his best when the odds are stacked against him. In this instance, they would be, with Goldberg being booked to dominate, but I think Cena would manage to pick up the win here and move forward.
In the 3 and a half years between his debut and departure he lost six times in singles action. However, looking at the career of Cena from November 2004 to February 2008, a similar period he had losses against Orlando Jordan, Kurt Angle by DQ, Edge by MITB cash in, RVD by MITB cash in, Booker T in the three way championship match, Kevin Federline(!). Which makes 6. None of which were clean singles defeats. So, Cena may not have had a promoted streak, but he was just as hard to beat.
Cena has beaten all kinds of wrestlers over the years, and does his best when the odds are stacked against him. In this instance, they would be, with Goldberg being booked to dominate, but I think Cena would manage to pick up the win here and move forward.
Why does the crowd reaction Goldberg got in WWE matter here? We're in WCW, where he was the most popular superstar for several years.
So what? Are you trying to downplay Goldbergs accomplishment of beating the number one heel in WCW when they were the biggest wrestling promotion in the world? Heel or not, Hulkamania or not, Goldberg defeated Hulk Hogan. Cleanly.
Why not? Edge's spear has put Cena down several times. Goldberg's spear is much more devastating.
So this is how we're playing it now? Victories only count if they're against faces?
More convincingly? How so? Goldberg dispatched of the Giant in what, five minutes or so?
Goldberg had a clean win over Sting sometime late 1999.
If memory serves me correctly, Goldberg defeated DDP cleanly on October 25, 1998, Halloween Havoc. He defeated a VERY popular face cleanly in DDP, in what I'd consider one of the best matches in WCW history.
All the time? Sid was pretty dominant in late WCW, especially 1999. Ya know, having wins over the likes of Hogan, Sting and Nash.
Triple H was WELL past his prime when Cena beat him. So it doesn't count.
Who cares if they were playing heels? The fact is, Goldberg defeated them. It's not like he could beat them all as faces, cuz, ya know, he was a face for the majority of his career.
"It doesn't count" because somebody was playing a heel is stupid. I guess we should just not recognize all the heel's John Cena has defeated.
He may have jumped, he may not have. Say he did. Watch that moment again. He held him up. Not picked up and dropped fast, held him up. He also beat him in like 5 minutes. Whether you like it or not Goldberg beat Hulk Hogan clean. Fuck his gimmick he beat the man named Hulk Hogan. He beat the Giant within 5 minutes. Why would the spear and Jackhammer not keep Cena down? Like Moses mentioned Edge's spear beat Cena many times, and Goldberg 's is WAY more affective. Add the Jackhammer after that and he's done. Cena is amazing, but this is Goldberg's prime on his home court where his loss column has a one digit number in it. I like you a lot JMT, one of my favorite posters, but Cena would not beat Goldberg here.
A couple of points really, Hulk Hogan > Hollywood Hogan. A prime near unbeatable hero > an old man who needed lackeys. Also it wasnt clean, watch the match, Hogan gets distracted leading to a spear and jackhammer.
Win over Hogan>no win over Hogan
Goldberg still beats Hogan clean. Nobody touched Hogan for Goldberg to get the pin, and nobody knocked the ref out to help Goldberg get the pin. He went over Hogan clean. Somebody came out to make it a fair fight between the two because his lackeys came out. Nobody made Hogan get distracted, nobody hit Hogan, he lost because of his own mistake.
Beating Hogan and The Rock puts Goldberg way over Cena. You think Cena would have been booked to beat 20023 Rock or 1998 Hogan? No way. Cena's biggest wins are over probably HHH and HBK, which, whilst impressive, are both guys who are way past their primes. Goldberg dominated the most popular wrestling promotion in the world, at a time when wrestling was HOT. Cena is dominating wrestling when it's strugglign to draw the attention it did when GOLDBERG and Austin were the top faces of the big two. Case closed.
No doubt about that, but at least Warrior and Rock managed it while Hogan was 100% focused on them.
Hogan was looking the other way for fear that he might get attacked by somebody, the fact that it's Hogan's lackey's fault that the other's came out isnt important, Hogan was distracted and that helped Goldberg win.
I saw someone say that Cena is a carbon copy of Hogan, if this is true then Goldberg would be the perfect opponent for John Cena because Hulk Hogan was the guy that beat the unbeatable. Much like Cena is today.
Yes and yes, why? Simple, Hogan of 1998 was putting over stars in Goldberg and Sting. The Rock of 20023
was leaving the company and Crash Holly would've been booked over him because of it.Sting was WCW's top face, Goldberg was the bald man with the streak. Cena is the face of WWE, it may be falling but it was a lot worse before he took over the reigns. When he's on the show, ratings rise.
Cena at his peak could take Goldberg, it's not like we are talking Ultimate Warrior unbeatable here, he's the guy that'd stop Goldberg.
I dunno tbh, Goldberg is pretty much the Ultimate Warrior Part Two, and no Cena in 1998 WCW would no way be the top guy, or even that close. If he was on that roster he would have been fihgting on the undercard whilst Goldberg beat the crap out of everyone in the main event and asked who's next? I fail to see who Cena has beaten who is up to the quality of Goldberg back then, kayfabe of course. "Cena overcomes the odds" isn't a good argument...so Cena's "thing" is overcomign the odds.......Goldberg's thing is winning.
Not really, Goldberg beat jobbers and would get controversial wins against stars, he struggled against DDP. Warrior beat Andre in 21 seconds, this is the Andre who had only been defeated once prior. . . . . . . honest.
There's no telling how over Cena would've gotten in that time, although I seem to remember him getting pretty damn over in a WWE that at the time consisted of Stone Cold, Brock Lesnar, The Rock, Undertaker and Kurt Angle. His ME push may not have come until some departures but looking at how he debuted it was always on the cards.
No no, it's a fair point, I just think that Goldberg is fair game for Cena being the unstoppable force he is, Cena being the guy that stops unstoppable forces and all. Remember that I am on the fence leaning toward Cena, have yet to be persuaded otherwise.
Ironically enough, looking at Cena's title reign, so is his.
hmmm I see what you're saying, but would you vote Cena over Warrior? Over Hogan? Over Austin? They're all odds against him. Using the fact that he can overcome stuff is a weak argument because then we might as well not bother havign the competition. Some odds are just too great, and Goldberg at his peak was an unstoppable force of nature. I'm pretty sure he only lost something like 5 times in WCW...all of which involved some kind of inetrference or cheating of an obvious kind...screwjob loses. Cena is a stand up guy and so won't resort to those tactics, and that's the only thing which could stop Goldberg back then. Cena has been beaten by Batista clean, and probably others, so he doesn't share this virtue.
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