Was The Great Muta Early WCW's Biggest Mistake?

[OYDK]

In regards to the vast potential he had and the shitty way his run ended in 1990? For those of you who don't know the backstory, The Great Muta debuted in the NWA/WCW in 1989 and within 4 months had become one of the top stars in the entire promotion. He had gone undefeated to start his run before ultimately losing to Sting at the GAB in controversial fashion, but would pin Sting a couple of months later to win the NWA TV title. From there he was featured, along with Sting and Luger, as one of the key pieces to NWA's future and it seemed like he was destined for the NWA Championship sooner rather than later. And than Starrcade 89 happened.

Let me make it clear, I wasn't actually around at this time so I'm not 100% certain of all the dynamics going into this PPV. Similarly, I'm not privy to any of the "political" rumblings that were happening at this time in regards to Muta, I'm just going off of what I've seen on the Network. To me, it seemed like the crowd was very invested and enamored in Muta and he looked to be on the fast track to the top of the company beside Sting.

This is why I find his booking heading into Starrcade so strange. First off, the quick blowoff of the Funk/Flair feud before the December PPV left the NWA without a main event for Starrcade which basically led to them running a weird and boring Iron Man tournament. If the NWA had been smart, they could very well have booked Flair vs an undefeated Muta for the title, but that's besides the point. Not only did they not do anything like this, Muta would actually lose 3 times that night, most notably in under 2 minutes to Flair. A couple of weeks later, he would lose the TV title to Arn Anderson and a within a couple of months he had gone back to New Japan. What happened?

Muta would of course go on to become one of the biggest wrestling names in Japanese history, but that question is still there, what if? What if Muta had faced Flair at Starrcade 89? What if they gave him a run with the NWA title? Would he have stayed or was he always going to go back to NJPW?

Anybody have any thoughts on this?

 

[Makaveli31]

Muta/Keiji Mutoh was always going back to New Japan. He was a star in New Japan before he came to WCW. This was during the talent exchange going on between WCW and NJPW. WCW would do "supershows" over in Japan and bring in NJPW wrestlers. I don't know the "backstory" in that Muta, to my knowledge, has never gave a shoot interview but I think he just had a great run. He "undefeated", won a major title, and was featured in main events throughout the country. He did his job and put over the guys that were staying. It was how things were done back then and right way to do business

 

[dsotm5150]

Muta is one of WCW's biggest missed opportunities. The guy looked great in the ring, the fans were really into him and he had some great matches, I've always read that guys loved working with him too. He went on to be a huge star for NJPW. He kept showing back up off and on WCW TV off and on over the years, so I wonder if he wasn't part of the deal WCW had with them because I know he was a part of nWo Japan alongside Jeff Farmer and Scott Norton, so it may have been his person choice to go to Japan.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I agree with what the previous one said, Only being on loan from New Japan it seemed pointless putting him over major names on his way out.
I would have loved to see him stick around WCW longer though as during that era I had no access to NJPW so only way I could see Muta was on WCW and always thought the matches I did see where incredible, Theres so much he could also have done in the WWE if he would have joined in the early 90s he could of had so many dream matches there against the Hitman, HBK, Undertaker, Hogan just to name a few.
I believe he's quite underrated when the greats of wrestling are considered I rarely hear his name mentioned, Maybe if he had of commited full time to somewhere like WCW or the WWF he would have achieved a lot more success.

 

[TheLittleOne]

yea the follow ups really hit it on the cranium brother.. i was around watching full time and MUTA was simply appearing here as per a working agreement .. it was smart to use him but not overly invest in him while putting others over less since he would return to japan and that talent might have been not buried yet , while lose some steam..

if u are lil younger and didnt see alot of wcw from that time period, i highly suggest you use the network and watch alot of 1989-91.. of course there is garbage, but alot of GREAT wrestling, GREAT gimmicks, GREAT athletes.. just really believable work being done.. first and foremost.. THE STEINER BROTHERS.. wow scotty was a shorter brock lesnar if brock lesnar LOVED professional wrestling, hard lariats, every variation of suplexes right on the neck! even created a lil move he called the frankensteiner, maybe you've seen it.. i suggest catching steiners vs Dr Death Steve Williams and Terry Bam Bam Gordy ( i so just said their names in JR's voice).. off topic but i know people call JR the voice of wwe, but i always associate Jim Ross with WCW.. JR with Ventura was great.. my favorite stable of all time : the Dangerous Alliance Rick Rude, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson, Larry Zybysko, Bobby Eaton and of course managed by Paul Heyman ...
Lex Luger imo was at his absolute best run in the biz as top heel and champ managed by harley race, top face STING, Flyin Brian Pillman was high flyin and top baby, Ron Simmons uber powerful bad ass atheltic and always had great matches 2 of them are VS Luger almost won, & VS Vader where Simmons won the world title - biggest pop in PRE NWO WCW

sorry to go off on semi- rant but i feel 89-92 was my FAVORITE time period in all of wrestling, as those years were also my Favorite time in WWE, WCW... we got to see some great talent jump ship, like when ARN ANDERSON and TULLY BLANCHARD came to WWE they got best heel manager ever in Bobby Heenan and gave us Perfect Tag Team matches against HARTS and ROCKERS...

i also loved the FEW HART FOUNDATION vs ROCKERS tag battles that happened, i can only recall two from TV, both SNME but one never aired when it was 2 out of 3 falls and the ROPE BROKE and they couldnt do most spots but ROCKERS won the tag titles yet it never happened.. but watch the match it was soo freakin GREAT.. shawn bumps for Anvil you could see he had it..as did bret..

so i decided to use this time to mention to my younger brothers out there how much great stuff there is to catch up on , which is Y the WWE NETWORK is a must have.. foget about swerved and that garbage, also check out THE ROCKERS vs THE FABULOUS ROUGEAU BROTHERS from a FRANCE house show in 89 i think it was part of the post wrestlemania euro tour it was the odd set up with an entrance tunnel and girls with signs and neon hair wigs!!!

ok now the next statement i will make is the most valuable piece of information when speaking about GREAT GREAT PERFECT matches in which most people never saw / never knew existed.. i have also been told they agree by very serious top talent like jim ross and curtis axel oddly .. ok here: BRET HART and OWEN HART vs The STEINER BROS. it was a "taped for coliseum home video" from a tv taping / home video taping.. i dont recall the name of the video tape but i know it occurred right before Jim Ross came to WWE but he is on commentary since those video tapes, commentators did it at titan tower right prior to release in order to be up to date with stories and tv ppv results... it is a must watch for any wrestling fan, you never saw BRET and OWEN this good, well yea they both had 5 star matches and even together, so i take that back.. but i promise this is my favorite tag match of all time, and imo the best tag wrestling ever. EVER.

sum1 watch it please then reply with your honest opinion..

the WWE is soo desperately missing tag team wrestling like this with more drama building NOT rushing to that hot tag.. including more than 1 " ref didnt see the tag" tags!! bret takes a vicious steiner beating, moving the ring when he hit the turnbuckle chest first at 30 mph! OWEN comes in hot, BOOM enzguri

BACK WHEN NOT EVERY WRESTLER needs to slap their thigh when doin any kick ..DESPISE THAT//... and a superkick was the FINISH, not a trademark, but the FINISH of " the single greatest in ring performer of all time" yet OWENS, NEVILLE, USO, ZIGGLER, and more thats not cool, how many today use the sharpshooter?.. more guys need to use a submission move in every match and make it mean something, look at AJ Styles, like 4 weeks in and he already established his ankle / shin submission hold and the styles clash finish, and tons of trademark forearm / strikes / pelle kick / more than any1 Ziggler needs to develop a trademark submission hold

ok thanks for maybe reading my multi- point containing rant or simple scrolling through, most likely the latter..

i bid you adieu

 

[MrMojoRisin]

A few others have already said it, but I'll echo.

Muta's run was just done and he was on his way back home. Nothing more to it than that.

As a fan at the time, I felt the same as you. The guy was just awesome, and then it just seemed like he fizzled away and was gone just like that. But that's just how the business worked.

Looking back, I think they used him perfectly. He had a great run. Made his name in North America. Helped make some talent, and secured some good business for NJPW for years.

 

[c71score]

I thought they dropped the ball big time with Muta. He would have been perfect for the Black Scorpion. Should have had him win it at Starrcade 90. Had him wrestle a different style as Scorpion(like Flair did). Sting would have him almost beat. He would go for the corner splash, and out of know where, THE MIST. Spinning savat kick, moonsault, feud of 91 is born. Have Ole Anderson as his manager(no Horseman alliance). Would have changed the business in to many way to imagine. He probably made more money in Japan, so I can't blame him at all.

 

[TEIWCSCSAATBHPHASP]

Great Muta may have been younger and fresher by the late 1980s/early 1990s NWA/WCW era, but he wasn't cool enough then.

It wasn't until the NWO (New World Order) storyline from '96-'97 through '98-'99 that The Great Muta was really cool, even if he was just another member of the nWo while he got to be a main player for nWo Japan and not the challenger that took on Ric Flair, Sting and numerous others for early NWA/WCW.

 

[dsotm5150]

I thought they dropped the ball big time with Muta. He would have been perfect for the Black Scorpion. Should have had him win it at Starrcade 90. Had him wrestle a different style as Scorpion(like Flair did). Sting would have him almost beat. He would go for the corner splash, and out of know where, THE MIST. Spinning savat kick, moonsault, feud of 91 is born. Have Ole Anderson as his manager(no Horseman alliance). Would have changed the business in to many way to imagine. He probably made more money in Japan, so I can't blame him at all.

Muta would have been a perfect person to portray the Black Scorpion had he still been with WCW at the time, he had left in February. The angle was always intended as Ole Anderson's return to in ring competition, but he broke his arm while training and that's when it was decided that either Flair would be under the mask or Barry Windham. Creatively they wanted Windham to do it as he interfered in a match at Halloween Havoc dressed like Sting, yes Sting imposters go back as far as 1990 and that would set up a program with the two competitors that hadn't been done, but the company knew Flair vs Sting sold so they went with Flair.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

I don't know if it was there biggest mistake but it was a huge one. The Great Muta was a huge talent and should have been used better. But before i explain...

To all those saying Muta was just here on loan from NJPW or that he was a bigger star there so was always going back are just incorrect. Muta actually came over to the US at the tail end of 1985 and stayed until 1990, only going back to Japan for awhile in 87.

Muta wrestled in Japan as Keiji Mutoh, not The Great Muta. He had some success but also lost alot, including to the likes of Tony St. Clair. Who, you ask? Exactly. In late 85 he came here and began wrestling in Florida as The White Ninja. He would wrestle at two of FCWs Battle of the Belts cards, first challenging Denny Brown for the NWA World JR Championship and later challenging Tim Horner for the US Jr Championship.

After 86 he did indeed go back to NJPW and got involved in storylines with Antonio Inoki.

In 87 he headed this way and went to WWC in Puerto Rico where he feuded with Miguel Perez Jr and Invader #1, closing a hair vs hair match to Perez and battling Invader in street fights and a cage match. From there he then briefly went to WCCW in Texas were he fueded with Kevin Von Erich over who had the best claw hold, Muta's Oriental Claw vs the Von Erich Iron Claw. During this time he was known as Super Black Ninja. It was after this that he went to the NWA as The Great Muta, 'son' of The Great Kabuki and managed by Gary Hart.

So, I think it is unfair to say that Muta was only here part time. From 85-90 he spend more time here then in Japan. He was less like Inoki and Baba, who only wrestled a few matches in the states and then went home, and more like Masa Saito, who stayed for years and worked in different territories.

Now, I don't know what the backstage scene was like in 89-90 NWA so I can't say what happened but I would bet, given his willingness to stay stateside that if the higher ups approached him with a realistic plan for his future he would have stayed longer. Here is what I would have done...

As much as I didn't care for it I would keep Starcade 89 the same. The NWA was basically looking for a way to turn Flair back heel so this set up the Flair vs Sting match and led to their 1990s feud. It also set up some matches we would not normally see such as heel Muta vs heel Lugar or face Steiners vs face Road Warriors. I would however give Muta a longer match with Flair. I would also have him still lose all three matches. He still loses to Lugar by DQ. And here the NWA and I part ways.

At the end of Starcade 89 Sting pins Flair with seconds left to win the singles tournament. Lugar then blamed Flair for getting pinned and costing him the tournament, as Lugar was poised to win if Flair and Sting went to a draw. I would instead have Lugar blame Muta for costing him the event by getting Dq'd. Lugar then goes on TV in the weeks following the PPV bad mouthing Muta. Hart battles back on behalf of Muta. At Muta's televised TV title match against Arn Anderson Lugar comes to ringside, interferes and costs Muta the title. Muta then is awarded a US title shot and Wrestle War 90, instead of Steve Williams.

Now, we all know the main event of Wrestle War 90 was supposed to be Sting vs Flair for the NWA Championship, but Sting got injured so they changed it to Lugar vs Flair. For those who don't know the match ended when Lugar let Flair out of the Torture Rack to save Sting from an attack from The Andersons. Lugar lost by countout. This then turned Lugar face. This was a stupid ending as Lugar was a heel who had attacked Sting in the recent past. Dumb.

My way would be to have Muta and Hart be pissed about losing their shot at the US title. This causes Muta to interefere in Lugar's match, costing him a chance to win the World title. This would then set up a series of US title matches, Muta vs Lugar, which would climax at Bash 90 with Muta winning the US title.

Now, we have Sting as World champ and Muta as US champ. Not only do you have a set up feud between these two but think of some of the matches you could still have. Muta vs Lugar, Sting, Anderson( claiming he beat him for one title he could do it again), Brian Pillman, Tom Zenk, Mike Rotundo, Paul Orndorf, Junkyard Dog, El Gigante, Terry Taylor, Bobby Eaton, Brad Armstrong and Dustin Rhodes.

Anyway, at that point the NWA would have to gauge how well Muta was working as champ, should he stay heel, should he hold the belt for a long time, a short time, and should he be World champ. Whatever the case I think my scenario would have worked and the possibilities of a US title run or a NWA title run would have kept Muta in the NWA.

Or I could be wrong.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Muta in reality was the "trailblazer" for the NJPW talent to come over... Fujinami was the bigger name and match and he got his World title from Flair remember... Muta wasn't a "young boy" but he wasn't of the stature of TF in the New Japan setup, who was pretty much only second to Inoki himself. There may well have been political pressure from Japan to save the Flair battle for the title for TF rather than give it to Muta... arguably so they could benefit from his "big title win" themselves back home.

I seem to remember there being some discussions about a WWF/NJPW talent deal in those days, but there was some animosity still with Vince and Inoki over how their previous collaboration had turned out and Vince's "theft" of the Super Machine/Super Strong Machine gimmick in 86/87...

With the kind of talent NJPW had at the time, it made a lot of sense for WCW to get the agreement and remember that the biggest import from it was in fact Big Van Vader... who became a major main eventer (despite being American, he was the true success of that trading, being huge both sides of the water.

Muta did his job and went home... had he got that role, then arguably it might not have been successful. WCW was on slippery ice in terms of management even then, the sheer number of guys in charge derailed it all as much as any one choice of who got pushed.

The 4 man round robin was their shot at doing a different style PPV, as Vince had just done again by bringing The Rumble in... was it boring? not particularly, but it was convoluted, even Mania 4's tournament was over complicated when the simple answer was to remove Hogan and Andre from it and let them fight...

Muta can't be blamed if that PPV didn't catch alight - doing the same with tags on the same night probably did the damage.

 

[ServantofTwilight]

Muta in reality was the "trailblazer" for the NJPW talent to come over... Fujinami was the bigger name and match and he got his World title from Flair remember... Muta wasn't a "young boy" but he wasn't of the stature of TF in the New Japan setup, who was pretty much only second to Inoki himself. There may well have been political pressure from Japan to save the Flair battle for the title for TF rather than give it to Muta... arguably so they could benefit from his "big title win" themselves back home.

I seem to remember there being some discussions about a WWF/NJPW talent deal in those days, but there was some animosity still with Vince and Inoki over how their previous collaboration had turned out and Vince's "theft" of the Super Machine/Super Strong Machine gimmick in 86/87...

With the kind of talent NJPW had at the time, it made a lot of sense for WCW to get the agreement and remember that the biggest import from it was in fact Big Van Vader... who became a major main eventer (despite being American, he was the true success of that trading, being huge both sides of the water.

Muta did his job and went home... had he got that role, then arguably it might not have been successful. WCW was on slippery ice in terms of management even then, the sheer number of guys in charge derailed it all as much as any one choice of who got pushed.

The 4 man round robin was their shot at doing a different style PPV, as Vince had just done again by bringing The Rumble in... was it boring? not particularly, but it was convoluted, even Mania 4's tournament was over complicated when the simple answer was to remove Hogan and Andre from it and let them fight...

Muta can't be blamed if that PPV didn't catch alight - doing the same with tags on the same night probably did the damage.

Your time line is a little off. The NWA was working with AJPW up into 1989, not NJPW. AJPW sent wrestlers occasionally to the NWA, most noticeably at the Crockett Cups. Ricky Steamboat even defended the NWA Title in AJPW for the few short months he had it.

The NWA, which was changing into WCW, would not start dealing with NJPW until late 1990/ early 1991( which is when the Fujinami/Flair matches took place). Muta was gone from the NWA by this time. Ironically, the WWF had been working with NJPW, but at this time they switched and started working with AJPW. The AWA, who had always worked with AJPW, also started working with NJPW around this time, going so far as to give Masa Saito a brief title run.

As for Starcade 89 Future Shock being an answer to Royal Rumble I think the time is off again. There had been two Rumble matches at this time and Rumble 90 was being geared up for. I think the tournament format was done to..

A) Set up a friendly Sting/Flair match to start up a feud.
B) Test the waters for other possible feuds.
and
C) Give a fresh start to some guys going nowhere( remember Doom was stagnant so they lost all their matches, lost Woman, soon after gained Long and soon after were Tag Champs). Just think the NWA handled some of it poorly.

 

[Glacier]

They decided he did not have as much potential as Shockmaster.