Vince's shoot pot-shot to Canadians: "Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero"- He's right

[Ambiguous Turd]

I'll define who gets to choose a national hero. People from said country get to choose who national heros are. For WWE fans in Canada, Bret Hart is a national hero, and his accomplishments show it, even if they are scripted. It is however very wrong for a person of another country to state who a national hero is, and quote unquote "belittling" Canada/Canadians is borderline inappropriate and offensive, especially for someone who is a moderator. I know that it's Sid's personal opinion, but last time i checked a forum moderator is supposed to keep people within the rules of the forum and follow them as well.

What I am doing sir, is criticizing a behavior that many Canadian wrestling fans seem to participate in. And that is labeling a professional wrestler as a "National Hero". You can get your feelings hurt, kick, and stomp your feet all you want to, but that doesn't make what I do against the rules in any way. You can check the rules, if you like.

Here is a link to them:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=196


There is no flaming, there is no spamming. I can be warned or infracted as well, and I assure you, if I was breaking rules, I would be dealt with by my superiors.

So please don't preach the rules to me about what you supposedly think Moderators should and should not be doing. You may not like the fact that there are biased Mods at this forum, but Moderators are not required to be unbiased here at this privately owned forum and are free to interject their opinions where they see fit.

As long as that doesn't jeopardize my ability to Moderate impartially, which it does not-- IE: issuing an infraction because I don't like what you say, deleting comments that borderline flame me ... notice how there are several insulting comments towards me that aren't being deleted on here ... because that does not fit our standards of flaming, banning you simply because I don't like your opinions, etc. .... then you don't have a case. I enforce the rules down the middle, but yes, I have strong opinions, and I am free to speak those opinions.

Listen you inbred munroe doctrine pea brain. Taking pride in your country and countrymen IS NOT SHOWING AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX. It shows that you take great pride in your country. Do you take pride in being American? Do you take pride in your celebrity level countrymen? If you said yes to any of those, then using your very own arguement, you have an inferiority complex. As a moderator of several other sites, you are to follow the rules and 'belittling' someone is AGAINST THE RULES. For a moderator, you sure are an idiot. Yes, we wrestling fans take pride in Bret Hart being Canadian. Just because you are spoiled with so many celebrities being American, doesn't put you on a pedestal of greatness and its Americans like you that the World hates. I have no issues with any country, I have an issue with inbred morons like you. And if Vince had a legit issue with Canadians, Edge wouldn't have won 9 World Championships in 3 years.

For any Americans here that do not agree with Lord Monkey Brains, I feel bad for you guys having him as a part of your country. As for Lord Monkey Brains, get of your high horse because you're making yourself look like an idiot. You've been told by both Americans and Canadians that Bret Hart isn't seen as a Canadian Hero, but more of a respected person for what he did.

Lesson for today: Vincent Kennedy McMahon's on screen heel rants are all scripted and predetermined and do not reflect the views of the company or the real man.

First, I will tell you the same thing I told your cohort. Don't tell me how I am supposedly supposed to do my job. I have broken ZERO rules. I don't care how many other forums you Moderate or what your rules are. Other forums take pride in warning/infracting/banning people. We do not. We are strict with Spam rules for purposes of driving discussion, but as far as taking tough positions .... Wrestlezone Forums is where the big boys play, to be perfectly frank.

What that means is that you need to get some thicker skin. And letting your above comments towards me stay posted on here and you not receiving any warning or infraction shows you the leeway provided in what you can say on here.

Let's respond to a couple of your comments here:

Taking pride in your country and countrymen IS NOT SHOWING AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX. It shows that you take great pride in your country. Do you take pride in being American? Do you take pride in your celebrity level countrymen?

No I don't take pride in celebrity countrymen. Why would I? They don't represent me or my country. They are individuals that happen to live in America, and got famous. That doesn't explain why I should take pride in them.

That is what some of you clowns need to get over. These people who get famous DO NOT represent you in any way. That happen to live in Canada, and they got famous. I don't see why you feel the need to even attach country to the equation.

For a moderator, you sure are an idiot. Yes, we wrestling fans take pride in Bret Hart being Canadian. Just because you are spoiled with so many celebrities being American, doesn't put you on a pedestal of greatness and its Americans like you that the World hates.

Just because I am spoiled with so many celebrities? LOL.

How exactly am I spoiled? I don't give a Fuck about any celebrities. Celebrities provide entertainment, but I could care less about any of them on a personal level, and I have absolutely zero connection to them. Do you honestly think Americans think of our celebrities as "heroes" of any kind? No, we don't. I don't deny that there is an interest of celebrities and certain fascination about them, but I assure you, they are not regarded as heroes by our society and nor do we think of "America" when we think of them, either.

That country connection that you have with your celebrities is just not there with us. That is why when I say that you seem obsessed with this country mentality, in so far as you herald your celebrities as Heroes to your country, that is simply taking "country" too far and makes you look like a bunch of marks for Canada.

That's the way you are raised though, and I understand that. You go with how you are raised, and that stigmatism just permeates the culture there on a daily basis. So obviously when you see someone else take exception to it, you get your feathers all ruffled because you honestly don't know better.

But that is all I am saying. These guys are not heroes. Celebrities are not heroes. Actors and Actresses are not heroes. Famous writers are not heroes. Olympians can be construed as heroes. Armed servicemen and women can be construed as heroes. Along with doctors, policemen and women, firemen, and so forth. They are heroes. Professional wrestlers are simply not heroes.

And you can argue that you don't think he is, but there are plenty of Canadians that indeed view Bret Hart as a National Hero. And those are the people I am coming down on.

Lesson for today: Vincent Kennedy McMahon's on screen heel rants are all scripted and predetermined and do not reflect the views of the company or the real man.

Have you ever heard of a concept referred to as a "worked shoot"? No? My lesson to you ... sometimes real life views or situations come into play when doing a wrestling angle, and they are brought to life. The difference however is that it is done in the name and guise of one's on-screen character. Vince has done this several times in the past, and he's doing it here, as well.

We saw Hurricane Helms real life problems put on display on ECW this evening for all to say in not one, but two worked shoot angles with William Regal and Zack Ryder.

Bret Hart has not done one damn thing to be regarded as a National Hero. for that record, neither has John Cena, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Jim Duggan, The Patriot, or anyone else.

But I do always chuckle seeing the footage of The Calgary Kid's ovation from the live audience despite being seen for the first time. I guarantee you that if The American Kid came out and was decked out in red, white, and blue wearing a mask, he would receive absolutely zero reaction in our arenas and dead silence, and likely start getting booed halfway during the match.

 

[psykohurricane]

Personally i don't get why Lord sidious like to criticize the canadians wrestling fans so much especially about Bret Hart being considered a Hero. I really would love to know what canada ever did to him because other wrestlers like The Great Khali are considered national heroes in their country and you never read anything bad about them. So i'm guessing that you either hate canadian fans or you really hate Bret Hart but either way that something you will have to figure out.

Bret Hart is considered like a hero in canada the same way Hogan or Duggan are considered heroes by american wrestling fans. It's part of the gimmick they portrait. Sure some of us do think he a national hero just like some hockey fan think Wayne Gretzsky is a national hero. The fact of the matter is that they are many type of heroes in the world. They're the heroes that save life and do something great for their nation like soldiers, policemen, fireman and then they're other type of heroes that do small things for they're country or they're town and are great role models for peoples. Bret falls under that category. Just like Hulk hogan or john cena in america. For some american wrestling fans, John Cena is considered and national hero.

Sure, i agree, some of us have an inferiority conplex but that a small minority just some of you guys have a superiority complex. The things is we don'T have to blame each other for are belief. Canadians wrestling fans are the same type of fans as american wrestling fans but for some of you like lord sidious, they still don't get it and probably never will and that's too bad because while i respect his opinions, i'm getting tired of his ignorance as it concern the canadian wrestling fans.

 

[ahbooya]

Vince told Bret that despite what Bret thinks and despite what the Canadian fans think, Bret Hart is NOT a National Hero. This is exactly one of the things I have gotten on the Canadian fans for, for several years now with this obsessive nationalist mentality of theirs .... and how anyone who apparently is a celebrity is all of a sudden hailed as a "Canadian Hero". And that is clearly because the country and its citizens have an inferiority complex with how they are viewed around the rest of the world and is obsessed with its image in not wanting to be viewed as the stepchild of the United States. I don't know if they think America cares how the country is viewed, but frankly we don't.

However, Vince last night attacked Canada's ass-backwards view of treating celebrities as if they are "Canadian heroes" and it's long time treatment of Bret Hart as a Canadian Hero. This was music to my ears. I couldn't believe when I first heard this back in 1997 that Bret did not want to lose in Montreal because he is regarded as a Canadian Hero. I honestly thought this was Bret's preposterous ego in not wanting to lose the title, but apparently he was correct in that this was the way even Canadian professional wrestlers who sign with a national company are regarded up there.

Shame on the Canadian citizens, I suppose, for treating Bret Hart like an actual "Hero" all this time, and feeding the man's ego all these years. And where it's clear that some of this "hero" stuff is starting to die down, it still is apparent to a degree. Especially when there is an unknown wrestler in a mask called the Calgary Kid, never seen before, but decked out in Canadian colors, who can come down to the ring to a standing ovation in a Canadian arena.

With that being said, what are your views on Vince's comments towards Bret, as well as the mentality of Canadians in treating Professional wrestlers in a scripted form of entertainment as a "National Hero" compared to those in the Armed Forces, Policemen, Firemen, Doctors, Politicians, etc. ?

I don't know how exactly you can defend your anti-canadian comments here. They are hateful, and almost to the point of racism to an extent, although i'm not exactly sure if an american completely bashing on canadians can be called that, but i believe it should be. Do you have any idea how bad you look to the canadian posters here and to any other posters of nationality how bad these comments are. And you bash another guy for his Canadian avatar? Frankly, I believe your supperiors on here should give you some discipline cause this whole thread was NOT your place to start, maybe if you were a Canadian this whole thread would have merit but you're not. All of your comments on here are appalling and disgusting to read.

Especially when there is an unknown wrestler in a mask called the Calgary Kid, never seen before, but decked out in Canadian colors, who can come down to the ring to a standing ovation in a Canadian arena.

Did you happen to forget that RAW was held in Calgary that night? Don't compare that to another Canadian arena, in Edmonton (another big city in Alberta, Canada) the Calgary Kid would get a heel reaction, I guarantee it. The inferiority complex you mentioned certainly applies to you because you seem to be blinded by the one-sidedness of your comments.

As far as you stating we have no right to ridicule you for who you assign to be your heroes ... well that is not entirely true. We have every right to criticize you for your decisions and culture just like you have every reason to criticize America for it's decisions and culture, too.

No, you still don't have any right - remarking on American decisions and culture is different to an extent because in the real world, what America does in the economy greatly affects Canada's economy. You can't group decisions and culture to people considered heroes and idols in respective countries. It would be remiss of me to suggest that George Washington is not an American hero who led your American charge to independence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by simpsons_fanatic742 View Post
I really don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, Sidious. I came into this thread and responded to your topic so I expect some semblance of respect from a mod on these forums. If you can find where in my post I said that Bret Hart is our only national hero and screw anyone else, please point that out. You may have a hard time.

Well, I don't care if you appreciate it or not, it's something you are going to have to suck up and live with.

Now, lol, let me get this straight. There was a sentence I placed in bold with your comments. However, there is one word in particular I want to focus on. That word is "only". You said "tell me where I said that Bret Hart is our ONLY National Hero".

I never said that Bret Hart was your "only" National Hero. I said that he isn't a National Hero at all ... Period.

The fact that you can't even take the word "only" out of your comments and actually by doing so admit that you consider him some sort of a hero, is downright laughable.

And for people who claim that I have no right to criticize Canadians for who they consider "Heroes" and who they don't, I don't give a damn, frankly. I can criticize whoever in the Hell I want to criticize. So deal with it.

The last part especially makes me sick, you put yourself above your title. If you give heat to someone, expect the backlash. I do hope the superiors see how offending your comments have been.

And if Vince had a legit issue with Canadians, Edge wouldn't have won 9 World Championships in 3 years.

You've been told by both Americans and Canadians that Bret Hart isn't seen as a Canadian Hero, but more of a respected person for what he did.

Lesson for today: Vincent Kennedy McMahon's on screen heel rants are all scripted and predetermined and do not reflect the views of the company or the real man.

He's right. That was not a shoot promo on RAW, if it was Edge would not have the decorated title history he has, Christian would not be ECW Champion, The Divas Championship final would not have two Canadian divas competing for it, and Toronto would not have hosted two WrestleMania's, with some rumors of a third coming in the near future. You've taken his entire promo way too seriously.

Again I will state, Bret Hart is a national hero to ANY Canadian WWE Universe member that believes so. Ask the canadian wrestlers who came out of the dungeon, they'll likely bring up the whole Hart family. You can't take that away from them, especially being an American sidious. It's not your place and you've made yourself look like a fool. I don't need to retype the other examples in this thread.

EDIT: Here's some food for thought, all wrestlers are face or heel at a certain time - which means they portray either a hero or a villain to the crowd - since Bret's a face and a canadian, by this logic you have to consider him a national hero. Bret also had the patriotism feud with HBK where he portrayed a canadian hero so there's more than one way to look at this issue everyone.

 

[Canadian Ninja]

What I am doing sir, is criticizing a behavior that many Canadian wrestling fans seem to participate in. And that is labeling a professional wrestler as a "National Hero". You can get your feelings hurt, kick, and stomp your feet all you want to, but that doesn't make what I do against the rules in any way. You can check the rules, if you like.

Here is a link to them:

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/forumdisplay.php?f=196


There is no flaming, there is no spamming. I can be warned or infracted as well, and I assure you, if I was breaking rules, I would be dealt with by my superiors.

So please don't preach the rules to me about what you supposedly think Moderators should and should not be doing. You may not like the fact that there are biased Mods at this forum, but Moderators are not required to be unbiased here at this privately owned forum and are free to interject their opinions where they see fit.

As long as that doesn't jeopardize my ability to Moderate impartially, which it does not-- IE: issuing an infraction because I don't like what you say, deleting comments that borderline flame me ... notice how there are several insulting comments towards me that aren't being deleted on here ... because that does not fit our standards of flaming, banning you simply because I don't like your opinions, etc. .... then you don't have a case. I enforce the rules down the middle, but yes, I have strong opinions, and I am free to speak those opinions.








First, I will tell you the same thing I told your cohort. Don't tell me how I am supposedly supposed to do my job. I have broken ZERO rules. I don't care how many other forums you Moderate or what your rules are. Other forums take pride in warning/infracting/banning people. We do not. We are strict with Spam rules for purposes of driving discussion, but as far as taking tough positions .... Wrestlezone Forums is where the big boys play, to be perfectly frank.

What that means is that you need to get some thicker skin. And letting your above comments towards me stay posted on here and you not receiving any warning or infraction shows you the leeway provided in what you can say on here.

Let's respond to a couple of your comments here:



No I don't take pride in celebrity countrymen. Why would I? They don't represent me or my country. They are individuals that happen to live in America, and got famous. That doesn't explain why I should take pride in them.

That is what some of you clowns need to get over. These people who get famous DO NOT represent you in any way. That happen to live in Canada, and they got famous. I don't see why you feel the need to even attach country to the equation.



Just because I am spoiled with so many celebrities? LOL.

How exactly am I spoiled? I don't give a Fuck about any celebrities. Celebrities provide entertainment, but I could care less about any of them on a personal level, and I have absolutely zero connection to them. Do you honestly think Americans think of our celebrities as "heroes" of any kind? No, we don't. I don't deny that there is an interest of celebrities and certain fascination about them, but I assure you, they are not regarded as heroes by our society and nor do we think of "America" when we think of them, either.

That country connection that you have with your celebrities is just not there with us. That is why when I say that you seem obsessed with this country mentality, in so far as you herald your celebrities as Heroes to your country, that is simply taking "country" too far and makes you look like a bunch of marks for Canada.

That's the way you are raised though, and I understand that. You go with how you are raised, and that stigmatism just permeates the culture there on a daily basis. So obviously when you see someone else take exception to it, you get your feathers all ruffled because you honestly don't know better.

But that is all I am saying. These guys are not heroes. Celebrities are not heroes. Actors and Actresses are not heroes. Famous writers are not heroes. Olympians can be construed as heroes. Armed servicemen and women can be construed as heroes. Along with doctors, policemen and women, firemen, and so forth. They are heroes. Professional wrestlers are simply not heroes.

And you can argue that you don't think he is, but there are plenty of Canadians that indeed view Bret Hart as a National Hero. And those are the people I am coming down on.



Have you ever heard of a concept referred to as a "worked shoot"? No? My lesson to you ... sometimes real life views or situations come into play when doing a wrestling angle, and they are brought to life. The difference however is that it is done in the name and guise of one's on-screen character. Vince has done this several times in the past, and he's doing it here, as well.

We saw Hurricane Helms real life problems put on display on ECW this evening for all to say in not one, but two worked shoot angles with William Regal and Zack Ryder.

Bret Hart has not done one damn thing to be regarded as a National Hero. for that record, neither has John Cena, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, Jim Duggan, The Patriot, or anyone else.

But I do always chuckle seeing the footage of The Calgary Kid's ovation from the live audience despite being seen for the first time. I guarantee you that if The American Kid came out and was decked out in red, white, and blue wearing a mask, he would receive absolutely zero reaction in our arenas and dead silence, and likely start getting booed halfway during the match.

Yes, I have heard of a Worked Shoot. I have also heard of a Scripted Promo. Look at Canadian wrestling history in WWE, you will see that there have been several Canadian wrestlers who have been champion. If Vince hated Canada, Canada wouldn't be represented so well in WWE. Vince's SCRIPTED PROMO and your lack of any logical explanation about Canadian views are ridiculous. How many times do you have to be told that Bret Hart is not a National Hero, only a hero to those who see him as one. There is nothing wrong with that, if it is then the children who watch WWE must have a inferiority complex because they see John Cena as a hero.

So what if there are people who view Bret Hart as a National Hero, that is there choice. I'm sure there are people who view John Cena, Hulk Hogan, The Rock, and Steve Austin the same way. People look up to others who inspire them, be it celebrities, soldiers or everyday normal people, that is their choice. Your self righteous 'I'm always right' attitude is sickening. Get over yourself. Just because Vince called Bret Hart a 'National Hero' doesn't mean its true you stupid WWE Stockholder. You have been told by CANADIANS that Bret Hart is not seen as a National Hero, so there goes your comment on Vince's comments as a 'Worked Shoot' you ******.

You like to say that people who take pride in their country have an inferiority complex. I'd love to see you go to a soldier, Canadian or American and say that to them. Those people take great pride in their country, and according to your logic, they have an inferiority complex because of it. You are nothing but a narrow-minded, selfish waste. It's because of the leeway that I'm still here? No, I'm still here because just like you, I have an opinion on what you have to say. If I'm banned for my opinion I hope to God that you get banned for your opinion.

And no, just because you are a WWE Board Mod doesn't mean you are right, just means this is the area you have been given powers to, thats it. Just your signature shows how self righteous you really are. And if you think any Canadian feels inferior to an American, you are sadly mistaken. We are proud of who we are, what we've done and what we do. I know more Canadians who don't like Americans then I do any who feel inferior. And of course Canadians are going to react when you insult their country, I'm sure you'd get your panties in a knot if someone came on a forum and openly insulted and bashed your country. IT'S CALLED PATRIOTISM, AND ITS NOT JUST YOU AMERICANS THAT HAVE IT!

 

[ZeroVX]

.....you know, I figured you had some degree of an argument here, up until I read the rest of your thread.

What, you still bitter over 1812, Sid?

Get over yourself. If Canadians want to view Bret Hart as a hero, that's their right. Just like it's your right to not do so. Just like it's also your right to view or not to view any of your celebrities or wrestlers as heroes. There is no true definition of a hero, it's what people make of it.

To one person, saving a kitten from a fire makes them a hero. To someone else, they just find it stupid that someone would risk their neck over a cat. It's all about perspective. But don't you fucking dare come on here and criticize us for our perspective. It's our right and our choice, and if we choose to use that right and choice, we will. You have a lot of gall to come on here and try to make us feel bad for doing that. You don't see us doing the same to you, do you?

In fact, maybe I should. Maybe I should start my own thread where I call the American soldiers over in Iraq and Afghanistan idiots for volunteering to fight in a war that didn't need to happen and has put the economy into ruin. And maybe I should call the people revering them as heroes idiots too for showing respect to those who are killing and dying for an unworthy cause. But I'm not going to do that, because then I'd be no better than you.

You say we Canadians have an inferiority complex? Gee, with people like you coming down on us, is it any surprise?

 

[Mitch Henessey]

I think a big reason why Canadians might view Bret as a "hero" is because when he was on top, it was a big deal. For years Americans had Hulk Hogan, and what was one of Hogan's nick names...."The Real American". Bret Hart was "the guy" in WWF after Hogan left, and him taking over the #1 spot in WWF was a big deal. He might not have been the monster draw that Hogan was, but still, he was the guy. Hart's character displayed tons of Canadian pride, and since he was at the top of the world's #1 wrestling promotion, it was something Canadians could get behind. Now of course over the years there have been many popular Canadian wrestlers such as Christian,Chris Benoit,Edge,and Chris Jericho, but none of them were as decorated and glorified as Hart was.

As far as him being a "hero" goes, I guess it depends on how you look at it. You have to remember, Hart is the most popular Canadian wrestler of all time, and at one point in his career, he was at the top of the world's most famous wrestling promotion, and that is probably why Canadians put him on a pedestal.

 

[DirtyJosé]

The direction of this thread has made me sick. I have read responses from people I respect and felt the desire to kick their teeth in.

For those few still with the OP on the issue: how does if effect you?

Ok, we got it, you think it's silly of Canada to have any pride. You think it's silly of them to cheer any of their own on. You think it's hateful of them to cheer their own men on against anyone else. I honestly haven't heard anything that isn't also done by any other country in some form of sport or entertainment (or even....sports entertainment?). So instead of telling me how silly or wrong it is, why not actually share why it upsets you so much? Why is it a wrong thing?

Originally Posted by Lord Sidious:
And for people who claim that I have no right to criticize Canadians for who they consider "Heroes" and who they don't, I don't give a damn, frankly. I can criticize whoever in the Hell I want to criticize. So deal with it.

You are correct, you can criticize anyone you want, big boy. But that doesn't mean you won't look like a racist asshole doing it. Your fervor in trying to take all of Canada to task for ever cheering their own is unnerving. This is beyond criticizing. This is preaching that Canada isn't allowed to have their own celebrities, or their own sense of pride.

You have failed, through all of this, to make any sense of why Canada is not allowed to have any sense of pride. You have failed to create a compelling thread, and instead created a divisive and hateful thread. You take other members down because they use a Canada Avatar, or because they don't feel you have any say in who they choose to cheer. What about asians? Or latinos? Are they not allowed to cheer on their respective homelands? Are they also not allowed to admire one of their own who succeeded? Or blacks? Are they also not allowed to look up to other black celebrities and entertainers? What is scary about your post, Sidious, is that you make no clear argument as to why is it wrong of Canadians to cheer Canadian athletes (fake or real), wrong of any Canadian to look up to Canadian entertainers, and wrong of any Canadian to show pride in their country.

Again, you are within your rights to criticize, and you are within your rights to share that criticism. Just as I have the right to ask: why does it bother you so much? Do you feel offended? Does it make you feel left out?

Originally Posted by Lord Sidious
Do you honestly think Americans think of our celebrities as "heroes" of any kind? No, we don't. I don't deny that there is an interest of celebrities and certain fascination about them, but I assure you, they are not regarded as heroes by our society and nor do we think of "America" when we think of them, either.

That country connection that you have with your celebrities is just not there with us. That is why when I say that you seem obsessed with this country mentality, in so far as you herald your celebrities as Heroes to your country, that is simply taking "country" too far and makes you look like a bunch of marks for Canada.

That's the way you are raised though, and I understand that. You go with how you are raised, and that stigmatism just permeates the culture there on a daily basis. So obviously when you see someone else take exception to it, you get your feathers all ruffled because you honestly don't know better.

But that is all I am saying. These guys are not heroes. Celebrities are not heroes. Actors and Actresses are not heroes. Famous writers are not heroes. Olympians can be construed as heroes. Armed servicemen and women can be construed as heroes. Along with doctors, policemen and women, firemen, and so forth. They are heroes. Professional wrestlers are simply not heroes.

You are one man, not all of us. You do not speak for America. You have your own role models, others will have theirs. Your opinions here are simply that: opinion. Stop passing it off as fact that Americans don't worship their celebrities; why else would photos of Tom Cruise's baby or of Brangelina be worth enough to merit a career a stalking and photographing? Writers aren't heroes? Many of the soldiers and civil servants you seem to deem worthy of hero worship serve to protect ideals set forth by "famous writers", making them just as heroic. Your narrow view of what is or isn't a hero isn't enough to justify accusing Canadians of racial bias. Watch the Olympics. People get worked up in the pride of their nation. Is that wrong of them? You seem to think Olympians are heroic. Nationalism has it's problems, but people are never going to stop being proud of their homes, and proud of their people. With all due respect, get over yourself.

 

[The Phenomenal One]

Like I said before, it's just a matter of a opinion. There's no law that says that you have to be a Doctor or in the Military in order to be considered a hero. If a person positively impacts your life so much that you consider them a hero, then you have every right to do so.

And once again...I'm a native of Texas. I'm an American. But I refuse to act like we don't worship the celebs here in the states. I remember growing up when damn near everybody looked up to Michael Jordan as a hero. Is that so wrong? Of course not. It's their opinion. I remember when alot people, here in the states, worshipped the ground Michael Jackson walked on. Alot of people, here in the states *especially those who were into music*, looked up to him. Nothing wrong with that at all. Once again, it's their opinion. Hell, now you have the younger generation in America having Miley Cyrus as their hero. They look up to that young lady. So I find it hypocritical to bash Canada over something that we Americans also do. No disrespect to any of my fellow Americans..but I just find that way of thinking to be extremely hypocritical.

 

[Tastycles]

I think this thread is a bit ridiculous from all comers, to be honest with you. I don't believe that anyone considers Bret Hart a true national hero outside of the world of wrestling. Even if they do, a hero is:

a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

Well, he's of distinguished ability, but he isn't really brave or noble, but then how many heroes are? Bret Hart has represented his country on the international stage, and in that sense, he is a source of national pride.

That's not really my bone of contention though, because this thread is in actuality thinly veiled xenophobia. What is unbelievable is that it is coming from an American, accusing another nation of blind patriotism. They cheered for the Calgary Kid once, in Calgary, which probably had more to do with it than the Canadian garb. Jim Duggan was over for 30 years by shouting "USA".

For all the shit the Canadians are giving to Americans regarding revering celebrities, I present the following evidence.

1. Tommy Douglas
2. Terry Fox
3. Pierre Trudeau
4. Sir Frederick Banting
5. David Suzuki
6. Lester Bowles Pearson
7. Don Cherry
8. Sir John A. Macdonald
9. Alexander Graham Bell
10. Wayne Gretzky

Gretzky and Cherry are the only ones who aren't noted scientists or statesmen, and they were responsible for sporting successes internationally.

1 Ronald Reagan [2]
2 Abraham Lincoln
3 Martin Luther King, Jr.
4 George Washington
5 Benjamin Franklin
6 George W. Bush
7 Bill Clinton
8 Elvis Presley
9 Oprah Winfrey
10 Franklin D. Roosevelt

Which contains 2 entertainers. So if you want a nation that reveres its celebrities, how about you get a little reflexive first? This thread is misguided and plain wrong at best, and racist at worst. Everyone gets behind stars from their country, especially when they excel on a world stage. Vince said that to get over as a heel, not to make some sort of cutting observation of America.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I don't know how exactly you can defend your anti-canadian comments here. They are hateful, and almost to the point of racism to an extent, although i'm not exactly sure if an american completely bashing on canadians can be called that, but i believe it should be. Do you have any idea how bad you look to the canadian posters here and to any other posters of nationality how bad these comments are.

Oh, my comments are racist, are they?

Here we go casually tossing the "R" word around for an reaction. Doesn't work, sir.

No, sir. They are not racist. And that is one of the points I have made in this thread. You think anyone criticizing certain traits that someone else in another country does is Racist. You try to whine and complain so that you get your way.

No, sir. Your whining has accomplished nothing. You know why? Because the comments aren't racist. They are criticisms of certain characteristics that have been observed from SOME people in your country. Not all.

So, you are going to have to learn to be big boys and yes, quit being marks for your country and taking things so seriously. Grow the Fuck up. All of you.

And you bash another guy for his Canadian avatar? Frankly, I believe your supperiors on here should give you some discipline cause this whole thread was NOT your place to start, maybe if you were a Canadian this whole thread would have merit but you're not. All of your comments on here are appalling and disgusting to read.

Well, then don't read them.

As far as pointing out his avatar, that was a point I was making in how seriously so many Canadians take "country pride".

You want to accuse Americans of all being a bunch of Yankee Doodle Dandees. Answer this question and don't avoid it. Why is it that no American posters on here have an Avatar featuring the Stars and Stripes, or saying 100% American on it?

Things are changing in the United States and we are divided amongst those who feel that way in the Bible Belt, and others who don't take being "American" all that seriously, because we know our country's leadership has led us down some very dubious paths over the years, and we also know that our Health Care system isn't the best, and all that good stuff.

You need to stop taking this "Country Pride" and "Nationalist" thing so seriously, and start thinking of yourselves as human beings. You look like us, you talk like us, and for the most part we are closely identical as a society .. more so than any other country.

So for the last time, if we can advance and quit acting like a bunch of Marks for America, as we have been coming out of that phase for quite a while now, maybe you need to stop acting like a bunch of Marks for Canada.

Did you happen to forget that RAW was held in Calgary that night? Don't compare that to another Canadian arena, in Edmonton (another big city in Alberta, Canada) the Calgary Kid would get a heel reaction, I guarantee it. The inferiority complex you mentioned certainly applies to you because you seem to be blinded by the one-sidedness of your comments.

They could have called him the "Canadian Kid" and he would have received a tremendous pop anywhere. Canadian wrestling fans can not help but cheer it's own people, because they have such an inferiority complex with having people accomplish remotely anything in the world. The only problem is that this is most certainly the wrong forum (pro wrestling) to try and "compete" with other countries with.

Pssst, wrestling is fake and scripted.

No, you still don't have any right - remarking on American decisions and culture is different to an extent because in the real world, what America does in the economy greatly affects Canada's economy. You can't group decisions and culture to people considered heroes and idols in respective countries. It would be remiss of me to suggest that George Washington is not an American hero who led your American charge to independence.

I can most certainly criticize you any way I damn well please. And it has nothing to do with America having more effect on the Global Economy or not. That has not a damn thing to do with it. I'm a person, and I can speak my mind, as long as I don't break any rules. You can do the same.

The last part especially makes me sick, you put yourself above your title. If you give heat to someone, expect the backlash. I do hope the superiors see how offending your comments have been.

Well, all I can say is that with all due respect, you better learn to get some thicker skin and grow up.

Again I will state, Bret Hart is a national hero to ANY Canadian WWE Universe member that believes so. Ask the canadian wrestlers who came out of the dungeon, they'll likely bring up the whole Hart family. You can't take that away from them, especially being an American sidious. It's not your place and you've made yourself look like a fool. I don't need to retype the other examples in this thread.

I am going to ask this question again. How has Bret Hart or any other professional wrestler been a "National hero" to Canada. You need to give me something here because thus far, I've got nothing in response to this other than "You are being racist, how dare you criticize what Canadian people do, You have no right saying any of that stuff being an American" and all of that other bullshit.

Bret Hart or no other wrestler has done a damn thing to be considered a "National Hero". He hasn't saved anyone. He hasn't progressed your country in any significant way. He hasn't acted like a leader to contribute to your country.

He has done not a damn thing to be considered a Hero. Not a damn thing.

And where as I can't order you not to consider him a "National Hero", I sure as Hell have every right to ridicule you for considering him ... or any other wrestler, a National Hero.

 

[Canadian Ninja]

Pssst, wrestling is fake and scripted.

Yes it is, glad of you to notice. That does also mean anything Vince says to get heel heat is also fake and scripted numbnuts.

Since when did you become the voice of the American people? Last I checked, you were one person not an entire nation. You're right, no American has an avatar with the Stars and Stripes, does that mean they don't take pride in being American? Not likely, just they chose something different. I don't have the 100% Canadian avatar either, but I'm still proud to be Canadian. There, I answered your question. Now, how about you answer my question: Why not go to the soldiers and tell them to quit being marks for their own country? Or do you just not have the guts to?

There is nothing wrong whatsoever in taking pride in your country. You seem to be the only one who has his panties in a knot about it. No, Canadian's don't find the need to cheer their own. Let's bring you back to Summerslam 2004 in the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, Ontario Canada. Edge vs. Chris Jericho vs. Batista in a Triple Threat for the Intercontinental Championship. Edge, being in his home town was getting Heel heat while he was a face. Edge, in Toronto, his hometown, face, heel heat... HEY MORON GET THE PICTURE?

You say Americans don't cheer their own? Randy Orton gets a FACE reaction in his home town.. Hmmm, there goes that arguement once again. Why not, instead of coming on here, knees bent wishing to be with Vinnie Mac so badly you do some research and get facts before you automatically claim that Americans don't do the very thing you are complaining about Canadians do it. America is the epicentre for making it on the 'world stage'. Tell me a national Wrestling company in Canada that has the same Global success WWE has? What about England? France? Mexico? No, didn't think so. You say we have an inferiority complex, what about almost every non-American wrestler being automatically a heel? The only 2 Non-American wrestlers who are clear cut faces are Yoshi Tatsu and Christian. And the Non-American wrestlers are usually beat up by the American wrestlers on a regular basis. And just in case you want to play stupid like you have been in this thread, proof: William Regal, Ezekiel Jackson, Vladimir Kozlov, Chris Jericho, Edge. Now for past groups/wrestlers: Lance Storm, Christian and Test while being the 'Anti-Americans', General Adnan and Sgt. Slaughter as the 'Iraqi Sympathizers' getting beat up by the American Hero Hulk Hogan (Hey, coincidence, the Anti-Americans got the same treatment by the same man) You wanna complain about Canadians being Marks for themselves, theres hard proof that Americans do the same thing to this day.

Now how about you nicely quiet down, get off of Vince's nuts and stop thinking because your idol (and don't deny it, the way you jumped all over the place with Vince's comments clearly shows you idolize the man) said something to get heel heat is legit, because as you admitted in your post, its fake and scripted.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

Now how about you nicely quiet down, get off of Vince's nuts and stop thinking because your idol (and don't deny it, the way you jumped all over the place with Vince's comments clearly shows you idolize the man) said something to get heel heat is legit, because as you admitted in your post, its fake and scripted.

You are obviously an idiot who is very ill-informed. If you think Vince McMahon is my idol than you truly are clueless.

If you can take just a couple minutes and wander out of the attachment you have with this thread, just because it involved Canadian wrestling fans' treatment of their wrestlers, explore the WWE section and find out how I usually criticize Vince McMahon for something on a daily basis.

I despise what the man has done to pro wrestling since the beginning of the PG Era, and a few other things along the way, as well. People call him a genius ... I call him lucky. Yeah, that sounds like I idolize the man, alright.

Ask any other poster on this board what I think about the direction Vince McMahon has taken the product. Don't just take my word for it. But your comments prove how little you know and unfamiliar you are of me.

Now, regarding hometown crowds. Yes, happens to a small degree still, but not anywhere near what it used to be. Flair is really one of the last few talents that still gets a noticeable hometown reaction. Orton, CM Punk ... maybe a tiny bit more. But it is most definitely not the ovation an unknown like a Calgary Kid gets up in Calgary, Alberta.

I am absolutely convinced Vince did that to pull a prank on the Calgary crowd just to see how much they cheered the guy just for being announced from Canada. And to his credit, they didn't disappoint.

As far as your National Heroes, tell me which wrestler in the United States that Americans consider to be a "National Hero".

Now, because a Pro Wrestling event is scripted, that is why I said that you can not classify someone as a hero. Role model?? Very debatable. But most definitely not a "Hero", because they are not doing anything to advance your society or serve as a benefit to its people.

It's asinine to try and "compete" over something like Pro Wrestling. Canadian Wrestling crowds are marks for these Flag matches, but I can guarantee you that the feeling is not mutual if being on an America vs Canada basis.

I just find it amusing that the best examples you can even attempt to bring up of Patriotic gimmicks being over in America were from 10 years ago, minimum, while I can point to last year an example with the Canadian audience.

 

[Canadian Ninja]

Any city anywhere WWE goes pops when the city name gets called like that. If they were to try the Calgary Kid in Toronto, he'd get a heel reaction. You are the ONLY one here stuck on the whole one night Calgary Kid thing. Maybe you should get over it, I, being Canadian, forgot all about the Calgary Kid and the ovation he had until you brought it up.

You are still dodging my question: Why don't you go to the soldiers and tell them to quit being marks for their country?

And nice cover up for your secret love of Vince. My first examples of non-American heels are from the last 2 years that are still in the same position today: Regal, Zeke, Jericho, Edge, Burchill, Katie Lea. All non-Americans, all heels. Regal being the only Patriotic heel in that list. John Cena is a perfect example of present day Patriotic face.

You are the only one strung up on Bret Hart being a National Hero, after having many Canadians and Americans tell you otherwise. National Heroes become Celebrity-like figures to the country. So by saying you don't have National Heroes who are celebrities, is saying you have no National Heroes. Some one here posted a list of top 10 Canadians and Americans. That list did not have 1 pro wrestler on either list, and both had 2 celebrities. Both lists were made from Canadians and Americans respectivly, both completely negate any and all of your arguements. So why not now shut up and get the idea that you are nothing but an ignorant, biased, self righteous, inbred, munroe doctrine, pea brain, pig. And if I get banned for my thoughts about you, I don't care. I just hope a sleazbag like you gets removed from being a Mod because of these ignorant and insulting comments you have made to Canadians.

 

[psykohurricane]

You are obviously an idiot who is very ill-informed. If you think Vince McMahon is my idol than you truly are clueless.

If you can take just a couple minutes and wander out of the attachment you have with this thread, just because it involved Canadian wrestling fans' treatment of their wrestlers, explore the WWE section and find out how I usually criticize Vince McMahon for something on a daily basis.

I despise what the man has done to pro wrestling since the beginning of the PG Era, and a few other things along the way, as well. People call him a genius ... I call him lucky. Yeah, that sounds like I idolize the man, alright.

Ask any other poster on this board what I think about the direction Vince McMahon has taken the product. Don't just take my word for it. But your comments prove how little you know and unfamiliar you are of me.

Now, regarding hometown crowds. Yes, happens to a small degree still, but not anywhere near what it used to be. Flair is really one of the last few talents that still gets a noticeable hometown reaction. Orton, CM Punk ... maybe a tiny bit more. But it is most definitely not the ovation an unknown like a Calgary Kid gets up in Calgary, Alberta.

I am absolutely convinced Vince did that to pull a prank on the Calgary crowd just to see how much they cheered the guy just for being announced from Canada. And to his credit, they didn't disappoint.

As far as your National Heroes, tell me which wrestler in the United States that Americans consider to be a "National Hero".

Now, because a Pro Wrestling event is scripted, that is why I said that you can not classify someone as a hero. Role model?? Very debatable. But most definitely not a "Hero", because they are not doing anything to advance your society or serve as a benefit to its people.

It's asinine to try and "compete" over something like Pro Wrestling. Canadian Wrestling crowds are marks for these Flag matches, but I can guarantee you that the feeling is not mutual if being on an America vs Canada basis.

I just find it amusing that the best examples you can even attempt to bring up of Patriotic gimmicks being over in America were from 10 years ago, minimum, while I can point to last year an example with the Canadian audience.

First of all, again i would like to understand something, why do you hate canadian fans so much for treating Bret HArt like a national Hero when it happen in every country in the world. The Great Khali is a national hero in India yet you don't talk about that. Antonio Inoki is a national hero in his country yet you don'T talk about that either. In some degree Rey Mysterio is concider a national hero in his country yet again you don'T talk about this either. So i'm guessing that your not a big fan of Bret Hart or the canadian wrestling fan since that the only thing you like to bitch about.

So you wanted name of wrestler that the american wrestling fans consider a national hero, i got a couple of them in mind: Hulk Hogan is one of them that was consider a national hero. Sgt Slaughter was another one so was Hacksaw Jim Duggan and more recently John Cena. All these guy are threated like Hero in america by american wrestling fans yet they didn'T do anything to deserve this.

Again, personally i don'T mind debating this with you even if your opinion isn't based on facts but on your perception of this matter. What you see with canadian wrestling isn't what really happen, 10 years ago yes maybe we would be cheering with whatever canadian wrestler heel or face but in today's world, we are just like any american wrestling fans. If a wrestler is from the town the WWE is in then we will cheer for him or her and that's normal but let's say the Chris Jericho comes to Montreal, he's not going to get cheer in montreal. So yes, Bret HArt is consider like a national hero to some of us and it's not because he did something brave or change the world or anything like that, it's because of who he his that some of us consider him a hero. So why not back off from this canadian wrestling fan bashing and look at what going on in your country and other country around the world and then maybe it would be fun to have a intelligent conversation with you.

By the way, you said that candian wrestling fan are marks for flags matches yet the last couples of times i saw a flag match on t.v it was on american soil with american wrestling fans and they where even bigger marks that we were because i couldn'T believe how much the cheered for the americans to win this match.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

First of all, again i would like to understand something, why do you hate canadian fans so much for treating Bret HArt like a national Hero when it happen in every country in the world.

Where did I ever say that I "hate" Canadians for treating Bret Hart like a "National Hero"? At no time have those words ever came from my mouth. And that is why these so-called "racist" charges are laughable and so easy to disregard.

What I have done is criticized the behavior of many Canadian wrestling fans in treating Bret Hart as a National Hero. At no point did I ever say that "I, Lord Sidious, hate Canadians."

And that is why I say that many upset Canadian fans in this thread need to grow some thicker skin.

The Great Khali is a national hero in India yet you don't talk about that.

Let's not derail the thread, because at no time from the Great Khali's mouth has he said on television that he considers himself to be a National Hero. This however did come up on Off the Record with Michael Landsberg and Hart basically agreed that he was considered one.

So combined with that, along with how I have seen Canadian fans cheer their own on WWE Television, regardless of Face/Heel status (something you will not see American wrestling fans do to Canadian babyfaces if the roles were reversed) .... along with the mentality that I have witnessed first hand from being up in Canada for 9 weeks and certain markhood many Canadians have for the country of Canada .... that is the elements that have been criticized.

Those are my opinions. You can easily disagree with anything or everything that comes out of my mouth, but there is absolutely nothing against the rules, no bit of racism, etc. that is present anywhere on this thread. We are discussing behaviors and attitudes of cultures. You can do the exact same thing ... and many have ... in attempting to take the US fans to task with referencing pretty much the 80's mentality towards wrestling in our country. Please note that nowhere did I make "racist" allegations there.

Antonio Inoki is a national hero in his country yet you don'T talk about that either. In some degree Rey Mysterio is consider a national hero in his country yet again you don'T talk about this either. So i'm guessing that your not a big fan of Bret Hart or the canadian wrestling fan since that the only thing you like to bitch about.

When they refer to themselves as National Heroes, please let me know so I can start threads on them, as well. Somehow I doubt the Mexican fans would take it as seriously as some Canadian wrestling fans have taken this in this thread ... which only proves my point even more about the attitude many Canadians have and how defensive they are over Canada. It points once again to the massive inferiority complex that exists.

So you wanted name of wrestler that the american wrestling fans consider a national hero, i got a couple of them in mind: Hulk Hogan is one of them that was consider a national hero. Sgt Slaughter was another one so was Hacksaw Jim Duggan and more recently John Cena. All these guy are threated like Hero in america by american wrestling fans yet they didn'T do anything to deserve this.

I GUARANTEE you that Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Jim Duggan, Sgt. Slaughter, etc. are NOT considered National Heroes by the American populace and I challenge you to discuss this topic with any other American pro wrestling fan on here.

And I can guarantee you that NONE of them ever referred to themselves as a National Hero, either. They are treated like celebrities, however our celebrities are not treated like heroes. Big difference.

Again, personally i don'T mind debating this with you even if your opinion isn't based on facts but on your perception of this matter.

And yours are? I am debating on what I see from my own eyes and what I hear from my own ears.

What you see with canadian wrestling isn't what really happen, 10 years ago yes maybe we would be cheering with whatever canadian wrestler heel or face but in today's world, we are just like any american wrestling fans.

I wish honestly that this would be the case, but House Show reports indicate quite the opposite. It shows that the Canadian Heels are cheered overwhelmingly over American faces. Edge and Chris Jericho always get a great reaction, and Jericho always has to Heel it up to the extent of "bashing Canada", just to get the crowd to boo him. And why does he trash the country? Because he knows how serious Canadians take their patriotism and that is a sure fire bet to get them to boo him, every time.

So yes, Bret HArt is consider like a national hero to some of us and it's not because he did something brave or change the world or anything like that, it's because of who he his that some of us consider him a hero. So why not back off from this canadian wrestling fan bashing and look at what going on in your country and other country around the world and then maybe it would be fun to have a intelligent conversation with you.

It can be fun having a conversation with me. I have no problem doing this. Do you want to know why? Because I don't take this conversation extremely seriously and nor do I take anything personally that is said. I would advise you and others to do likewise, and then maybe you can enjoy the relaxed conversation more and talk just as two human beings making observations. That is what this is about for me ... not about some US vs Canada thing, like some are making it out to be.

Believe me, I criticize American wrestling fans for some of their behaviors, as well. Is that racist?

By the way, you said that candian wrestling fan are marks for flags matches yet the last couples of times i saw a flag match on t.v it was on american soil with american wrestling fans and they where even bigger marks that we were because i couldn'T believe how much the cheered for the americans to win this match.

Please list the dates of those last several flag matches you saw and what cities they took place in. Then I can address your comments.

 

[psykohurricane]

Let's not derail the thread, because at no time from the Great Khali's mouth has he said on television that he considers himself to be a National Hero. This however did come up on Off the Record with Michael Landsberg and Hart basically agreed that he was considered one.

Yeah your right, it Khali never said it but own many time during a WWE broadcast that either Michael Cole or Jim Ross told the WWE Fan own Khali was treated like a Hero in India. Also if their all the wrestling website including this one that mention it once in a while and i'm pretty sure that somewhere on the Web, their an interview with the Great Khali in India talking about that very fact.

So combined with that, along with how I have seen Canadian fans cheer their own on WWE Television, regardless of Face/Heel status (something you will not see American wrestling fans do to Canadian babyfaces if the roles were reversed) .... along with the mentality that I have witnessed first hand from being up in Canada for 9 weeks and certain markhood many Canadians have for the country of Canada .... that is the elements that have been criticized.

Whoa, you've been in Canada for 9 weeks, good for you, that makes you an expert on Canadian. Has far as what you hear on wwe tv, let's face it most of it is fix the the production team anyway. i went to multiple WWE tv events over the years and then watch it on t.v and the reaction to certain wrestlers weren'T the same on t.v as it was live. One time i went to a Raw event and Jericho was there and people didn't cheer for him at all. He was even playing with the crowd saying how he canadian so the fan are supposed to cheer him and nobody cheered him even if he was wrestling John Cena that night but on t.v it didn'T sound the same, it sounded like we were actually cheering for Jericho, even Jim Ross and Jerry Lawler were trying to push that fact. So don'T let the WWE fool you, the fan reaction even live are pre produce sometimes. By the way, Since when is Orton a face. He must be because everywere he goes in america he's getting cheered and has far as american not cheering for the own. How about when wrestler go back to their home town. Take for Exemple: survivor series 2009: BAtista (Heel) vs Rey Mysterio (Face). Who was cheered during the whole match, Batista. Same goes for pretty much every wrestler on the roster, they go to there home town and get cheer even if they are heel.

Those are my opinions. You can easily disagree with anything or everything that comes out of my mouth, but there is absolutely nothing against the rules, no bit of racism, etc. that is present anywhere on this thread. We are discussing behaviors and attitudes of cultures. You can do the exact same thing ... and many have ... in attempting to take the US fans to task with referencing pretty much the 80's mentality towards wrestling in our country. Please note that nowhere did I make "racist" allegations there.

Don'T care about this part since i never called you a racist. Personally i don'T thing you are a racist. I do thing your didicated to your country and in this subject your turning a blind eye to the american wrestling fan behavior toward certain wrestlers but i never thought you were a racist.

I GUARANTEE you that Hulk Hogan, John Cena, Jim Duggan, Sgt. Slaughter, etc. are NOT considered National Heroes by the American populace and I challenge you to discuss this topic with any other American pro wrestling fan on here. And I can guarantee you that NONE of them ever referred to themselves as a National Hero, either. They are treated like celebrities, however our celebrities are not treated like heroes. Big difference.[/

Probably not Cena but listen to some interview that Hogan gave in the 80's and 90's and even he was in character, you could see with his body language that he thought he was a hero. Duggan build is career around it and am sure if you ask him today he would tell you that he consisdered himself a hero for thounsand of peoples. Slaughter already said it once during an interview that people consisdered him a american hero. Like i said before peoples american or canadian have different heroes in their life. Sometime it a policeman or somebody the did something couragious like a soldier or a teacher, something they just want to believe in the hype that is giving to them and really believe that a celebrity can be a hero. How many peoples around the world cried around the world when michael jackson dies. And a lot of them called him there hero because even through he didn't do anything couragious, he change something in there live just by being there. That what Bret Hart does to some people in Canada like somebody like John Cena or Hulk Hogan does for you american. He changed people life just by being on t.v every week and performing that why he's a national hero.

I wish honestly that this would be the case, but House Show reports indicate quite the opposite. It shows that the Canadian Heels are cheered overwhelmingly over American faces. Edge and Chris Jericho always get a great reaction, and Jericho always has to Heel it up to the extent of "bashing Canada", just to get the crowd to boo him. And why does he trash the country? Because he knows how serious Canadians take their patriotism and that is a sure fire bet to get them to boo him, every time.

Since when does a house show reports mean anything anyway. If i follow your logic based on house shows reports i could say the same thing about Randy Orton or Batista or any other american heel wrestlers on the rosters.

You want to talk about patriotism, all you got to do in america is say u.s.a. sucks or talk about badly about the american soldiers who are fighting a war that shouldn't have started to begin with and the american wrestling fans will be all over you, Same thing goes the other way around, just chant U.S.A or wave the american flag and you GUARANTEED of getting the biggest pop of the night.

It can be fun having a conversation with me. I have no problem doing this. Do you want to know why? Because I don't take this conversation extremely seriously and nor do I take anything personally that is said. I would advise you and others to do likewise, and then maybe you can enjoy the relaxed conversation more and talk just as two human beings making observations. That is what this is about for me ... not about some US vs Canada thing, like some are making it out to be.

I don'T either in fact i'm just having fun stating some of the facts that you might have miss before writing back to you. Sure some of the other guys did bashed you pretty hard but i for one respect your opinions and don'T mind having a fun relaxing discussions about this subject, wrestling fan vs wrestling fan.

Please list the dates of those last several flag matches you saw and what cities they took place in. Then I can address your comments.

So you want a list of these matches i got several from both WWE and TNA over the last 30 years

15.FLAG MATCH: May 26, 2003 - Memorial Day Rob Van Dam w/Kane vs Sylvian Grenier w/Rene Dupre

FLAG MATCH: June 14, 2004 Dayton, Ohio: La Resistance vs The Super Heros (The Hurricane & Rosey)..

October 5, 1985 - SNME: Hulk Hogan defeated Nikolai Volkoff in a "flag" match..
January 4, 1986 - SNME: Nikolai Volkoff defeated Corporal Kirschner in a "flag" match..
April 2, 1986 - Wrestlemania II: Nikolai Volkoff defeated Corporal Kirschner in a "flag" match..

FLAG MATCH: June 16, 2004 - Nashville, Tennessee Team Canada def Team NWA/USA

December 10, 2006 - Orlando, Florida ◦LAX w/Konnan def America's Most Wanted -Flag Match

october 5 1997: St louis misouri :Bret Hart and The British Bulldog def. Vader et The Patriot in a Flag Match

Has you can see all these matches happened on U.S soil and will all the foreigner were heel, when the face won the matches the crowd was all as marking as much as when it happens in Canada.

Here you have it, if you want to continue this discussion in a civilize matter i don'T mind doing so because i've read some of your other post and will i don'T always agree with them, some of them actually makes sense, i just want to give you another perpective on this matters so that you don't based you opinions solely on what you read and what you see on t.v but by what other people who actually experience it have to say about this. So if you want to continue be my guess because i would love to have an fun and intelligent discussion on this subject.

 

[ZeroVX]

Now, regarding hometown crowds. Yes, happens to a small degree still, but not anywhere near what it used to be. Flair is really one of the last few talents that still gets a noticeable hometown reaction. Orton, CM Punk ... maybe a tiny bit more. But it is most definitely not the ovation an unknown like a Calgary Kid gets up in Calgary, Alberta.

Here's the problem with this point: Most of the main event heels are either Canadian or ones you've already said. Orton, Punk, and Jericho fall into this category. WWE hasn't been to Ireland so we can't judge Sheamus. Likewise for McIntyre and Scotland. I do remember a few weeks ago when WWE was in Cleveland that Miz got a monster reaction, so there you go.

I am absolutely convinced Vince did that to pull a prank on the Calgary crowd just to see how much they cheered the guy just for being announced from Canada. And to his credit, they didn't disappoint.

How about this? Find footage of that episode, and instead of watching and listening to the crowd, look at the Calgary Kid. He's shaking hands, high-fiving people....generally acting like a face. A face getting a face reaction? What are the odds of that?

As far as your National Heroes, tell me which wrestler in the United States that Americans consider to be a "National Hero".

Hulk Hogan, Jim Duggan, Sgt. Slaughter, Kurt Angle, John Cena.

Now, because a Pro Wrestling event is scripted, that is why I said that you can not classify someone as a hero. Role model?? Very debatable. But most definitely not a "Hero", because they are not doing anything to advance your society or serve as a benefit to its people.

They're out there killing themselves on a daily basis, and very rarely get any sort of credit because people like you keep pointing out that they apparently don't deserve it. All for our entertainment. Not because they have to, but because they want to. Sounds heroic to me.

It's asinine to try and "compete" over something like Pro Wrestling. Canadian Wrestling crowds are marks for these Flag matches, but I can guarantee you that the feeling is not mutual if being on an America vs Canada basis.

Now I know you're full of crap. Any flag match with the American flag on the line versus whatever foreign heel flag is being used gets huge reactions. Especially if it's on American soil. Someone else already listed examples so I'll leave that alone.

I just find it amusing that the best examples you can even attempt to bring up of Patriotic gimmicks being over in America were from 10 years ago, minimum, while I can point to last year an example with the Canadian audience.

OK, this time, watch the most recent Tribute to the Troops and keep an eye on the crowd when John Cena comes out. Watch how many of them cheer and do the "You Can't See Me" taunt when he wins. The troops that you keep saying should be treated like heroes more than any wrestler are treating Cena better than anyone in America.

 

[rko102]

I think you have a lot of nerve starting up a thread like this, "Lord Sidious". The fact that you take time to write this crap just to bash Canadians shows how narrow-minded you really are.

I was a kid when Bret Hart wrestled in WWF, and I didn't watch wrestling back then. However, I do know how much millions of Canadians admired him back then, and in the long run, who gives a rats ass if some of us called him a 'national hero?' I think it's pathetic when someone like Vince McMahon decides to throw a crotch shot at Canada on a national television network just because he can, and the fact that you eat it up and start a stupid little thread about it just tells me that you're as ego-driven as he is.

I'm proud as hell to be Canadian, and I don't think it makes the slightest difference who we choose to call a national hero or admire. It's our choice, and quite frankly whether or not you agree with it we'll do it anyway. And this bullshit you write about how we should be ashamed of ourselves because a real national hero is someone who risks their lives on a daily basis for their country? Which Canadian said to you that someone like that ISN'T considered a hero up here? Don't start putting words in our mouths, and stop bashing us just because you can.

I don't know if you write stuff like this sometimes because you love the fact that you're a moderator on some wrestling forum website, and it makes you feel all high and mighty, but enough is enough. Get a life and stop bashing other nationalities because we think differently than you do on some things. It's our choice, not yours. And to the rest of you who agreed with everything Lord Sidious said, especially the Americans, you guys should be aware that many Canadians, including me, don't waste their time bashing other nationalities on websites. We have better things to do.

 

[Ambiguous Turd]

I think you have a lot of nerve starting up a thread like this, "Lord Sidious". The fact that you take time to write this crap just to bash Canadians shows how narrow-minded you really are.

What I am highlighting is Canadian behavior towards who they view as heroes, and questioning it. That is something I have every right to do, and you have just as much right to do the same.

I promise, if the Canadians on this forum who fired back and ridiculed American behaviors of things, it honestly wouldn't bother me all that much. I may reply or maybe not depending on the response, but the fact of the matter is that I am not a mark for the United States of America, and I just don't take offense to criticisms of the country. You will find that many Americans may very well agree with some of the things without getting their panties in a bunch.

The fact that Canadians on here got all fired up, tiffed, and so forth about this issue has only proved me correct in when I state that many Canadians act like marks for the country of Canada and its Canadian citizens, in general, because of your inferiority complex in trying to compare yourselves to the United States.

So congratulations, you all only proved me correct by your responses, instead of just letting it go or saying "Yeah, I personally agree that it's a little silly what some of the people in the country do, since Bret really isn't a National Hero or anything."

Instead you get all defensive over it. So thank you for proving me correct with the inferiority issues so many of you have.

Personally, and just between us, the United States and the Americans don't care about your inferiority complex, so my best advice is to get over it, because we have no desire to compare ourselves to you, challenge you over a scripted sporting-type event, or anything of that nature. We just don't care. So please get over yourselves.

I was a kid when Bret Hart wrestled in WWF, and I didn't watch wrestling back then. However, I do know how much millions of Canadians admired him back then, and in the long run, who gives a rats ass if some of us called him a 'national hero?' I think it's pathetic when someone like Vince McMahon decides to throw a crotch shot at Canada on a national television network just because he can, and the fact that you eat it up and start a stupid little thread about it just tells me that you're as ego-driven as he is.

And the fact that you get your panties in a bunch over it shows me how much of a Canadian mark you are. Congrats.

I also love how people stick up for wrestlers who they should realistically have no emotional attachment to whatsoever when they really weren't part of your childhood. But then again, he's Canadian, so the need is there to stick up for one of your own in the scripted world of pro wrestling, so that's understandable.

I'm proud as hell to be Canadian

You're too proud, to be honest. Tone it down a few notches. All of you. You don't see us acting like a bunch of Yankee Doodle Dandees on here, do you?

Realistically, the only thing that separates our two countries is an imaginary border. You're a human being. Why do you take so much pride in being a Canadian? There is no particular reason I should take pride in being an American. We are what we are. We had no choice where we were born. So why have pride in something you have no control over?

I realize a lot of this is new for you, as you have had instilled in all of your minds that "you must be proud, you must be proud" since an early age. It's just funny how the behavior still exists in so many Canadians today, and you can see it as clear as day in your words on the forum ... where as the American pride just for being "American" is going away on here.

You tell me who you see on this forum who is a mark for America, as much as you guys are marks for Canada. Who on here has the 100% American avatars, and flaunting the fact that they live in the United States, or Britain, or Mexico, or any other country for that matter. Now, why do you think they don't, but for some reason you guys feel the need to display that as something to especially be proud of, when its something you had zero control over?

It's silly.

and I don't think it makes the slightest difference who we choose to call a national hero or admire. It's our choice, and quite frankly whether or not you agree with it we'll do it anyway.

Good for you. I think it's silly to think of someone as a hero when they compete in a scripted sporting event, and if Hart is a role model, then refer to him as a "role model", not a "hero".

However, even that is questionable, given his sexcapades on the road.

And this bullshit you write about how we should be ashamed of ourselves because a real national hero is someone who risks their lives on a daily basis for their country?

I love how some of you make up arguments and words out of thin air. When did I ever say you should be "ashamed of yourselves" at any point? I questioned who you labeled as heroes and why you act like marks for the country you were born in. Nothing more.

Which Canadian said to you that someone like that ISN'T considered a hero up here? Don't start putting words in our mouths, and stop bashing us just because you can.

I have a secret. You can't tell me what to do on here. Well, I suppose you can, but I am under no obligation to listen to you.

Again, YOU are the one making up words. You and a couple of your friends did, as well. When did I ever say that "Canadians don't consider people who risk their lives to be a National Hero"?

I never said that.

What I criticized was you lumping someone like Bret Hart, a person who happened to be born in Canada, who obtained a contract with the WWE, like hundreds and hundreds of other people have over the years, in the same category as doctors, servicemen, firemen, police, etc.

Let me ask you something.

Do you think we should all think of John Cena, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, CM Punk, Randy Orton, etc. as "American National Heroes"? Why or Why not?

I don't know if you write stuff like this sometimes because you love the fact that you're a moderator on some wrestling forum website, and it makes you feel all high and mighty, but enough is enough.

No, before I was Modded, I would write similar things. Ask anyone on here who has been here for at least a year.

I am simply not afraid to take on topics that may get some people mad. We are here to talk, so we are going to talk. And I want to talk about silly fan behavior as it pertains to wrestling, and in this case, it is relative to the over-degree of Patriotism that exists in Canada, so much that your behavior in wanting to go so far as to compete with Americans over a scripted sporting event like pro wrestling is a turnoff for many Americans. It's stupid.

Get a life and stop bashing other nationalities because we think differently than you do on some things. It's our choice, not yours. And to the rest of you who agreed with everything Lord Sidious said, especially the Americans, you guys should be aware that many Canadians, including me, don't waste their time bashing other nationalities on websites. We have better things to do.

Is is your choice. Nothing will realistically change other than I brought it to your attention and it's something for you to think about and reflect on.

Why be marks for the country you were born into, which you had no choice in at birth?

Secondly, why regard someone as a National Hero is happens to be a celebrity who gained employment for a company, and what makes him representative of being a "hero" amongst Canadians? Why should someone like that be put in the same category as real people who risk or save lives in your country? Thirdly, should Americans view wrestlers born in the United States as National Heroes? Why or why not?

 

[psykohurricane]

What I am highlighting is Canadian behavior towards who they view as heroes, and questioning it. That is something I have every right to do, and you have just as much right to do the same.

I promise, if the Canadians on this forum who fired back and ridiculed American behaviors of things, it honestly wouldn't bother me all that much. I may reply or maybe not depending on the response, but the fact of the matter is that I am not a mark for the United States of America, and I just don't take offense to criticisms of the country. You will find that many Americans may very well agree with some of the things without getting their panties in a bunch.

The fact that Canadians on here got all fired up, tiffed, and so forth about this issue has only proved me correct in when I state that many Canadians act like marks for the country of Canada and its Canadian citizens, in general, because of your inferiority complex in trying to compare yourselves to the United States.

So congratulations, you all only proved me correct by your responses, instead of just letting it go or saying "Yeah, I personally agree that it's a little silly what some of the people in the country do, since Bret really isn't a National Hero or anything."

Instead you get all defensive over it. So thank you for proving me correct with the inferiority issues so many of you have.

Personally, and just between us, the United States and the Americans don't care about your inferiority complex, so my best advice is to get over it, because we have no desire to compare ourselves to you, challenge you over a scripted sporting-type event, or anything of that nature. We just don't care. So please get over yourselves.




And the fact that you get your panties in a bunch over it shows me how much of a Canadian mark you are. Congrats.

I also love how people stick up for wrestlers who they should realistically have no emotional attachment to whatsoever when they really weren't part of your childhood. But then again, he's Canadian, so the need is there to stick up for one of your own in the scripted world of pro wrestling, so that's understandable.




You're too proud, to be honest. Tone it down a few notches. All of you. You don't see us acting like a bunch of Yankee Doodle Dandees on here, do you?

Realistically, the only thing that separates our two countries is an imaginary border. You're a human being. Why do you take so much pride in being a Canadian? There is no particular reason I should take pride in being an American. We are what we are. We had no choice where we were born. So why have pride in something you have no control over?

I realize a lot of this is new for you, as you have had instilled in all of your minds that "you must be proud, you must be proud" since an early age. It's just funny how the behavior still exists in so many Canadians today, and you can see it as clear as day in your words on the forum ... where as the American pride just for being "American" is going away on here.

You tell me who you see on this forum who is a mark for America, as much as you guys are marks for Canada. Who on here has the 100% American avatars, and flaunting the fact that they live in the United States, or Britain, or Mexico, or any other country for that matter. Now, why do you think they don't, but for some reason you guys feel the need to display that as something to especially be proud of, when its something you had zero control over?

It's silly.




Good for you. I think it's silly to think of someone as a hero when they compete in a scripted sporting event, and if Hart is a role model, then refer to him as a "role model", not a "hero".

However, even that is questionable, given his sexcapades on the road.





I love how some of you make up arguments and words out of thin air. When did I ever say you should be "ashamed of yourselves" at any point? I questioned who you labeled as heroes and why you act like marks for the country you were born in. Nothing more.





I have a secret. You can't tell me what to do on here. Well, I suppose you can, but I am under no obligation to listen to you.

Again, YOU are the one making up words. You and a couple of your friends did, as well. When did I ever say that "Canadians don't consider people who risk their lives to be a National Hero"?

I never said that.

What I criticized was you lumping someone like Bret Hart, a person who happened to be born in Canada, who obtained a contract with the WWE, like hundreds and hundreds of other people have over the years, in the same category as doctors, servicemen, firemen, police, etc.

Let me ask you something.

Do you think we should all think of John Cena, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, CM Punk, Randy Orton, etc. as "American National Heroes"? Why or Why not?







No, before I was Modded, I would write similar things. Ask anyone on here who has been here for at least a year.

I am simply not afraid to take on topics that may get some people mad. We are here to talk, so we are going to talk. And I want to talk about silly fan behavior as it pertains to wrestling, and in this case, it is relative to the over-degree of Patriotism that exists in Canada, so much that your behavior in wanting to go so far as to compete with Americans over a scripted sporting event like pro wrestling is a turnoff for many Americans. It's stupid.




Is is your choice. Nothing will realistically change other than I brought it to your attention and it's something for you to think about and reflect on.

Why be marks for the country you were born into, which you had no choice in at birth?

Secondly, why regard someone as a National Hero is happens to be a celebrity who gained employment for a company, and what makes him representative of being a "hero" amongst Canadians? Why should someone like that be put in the same category as real people who risk or save lives in your country? Thirdly, should Americans view wrestlers born in the United States as National Heroes? Why or why not?

While i agree with you that this thing as become a little silly now. i've got a challenge for you since you actually believe that american aren't marks for there own country and don'T considers celebrities as national heroes. I challenge you to ask everybody that live in your town who they view as a american national hero. Also i challenge you to start a thread on this forum that ask this question: do you considers any wrestlers or celebrity as a national hero? Then if you get a 100% vote no for both of these questions then i'll completly agree with you about what your saying about canadian fans. Because right now, the way i see it, american are just a big of a mark for their country as we are. The fact is the american are such marks for their country that they started a war that didn't need to happen just so they could prove how big and powerful the united states are.

 

[proofinlife]

What I am highlighting is Canadian behavior towards who they view as heroes, and questioning it. That is something I have every right to do, and you have just as much right to do the same.

I promise, if the Canadians on this forum who fired back and ridiculed American behaviors of things, it honestly wouldn't bother me all that much. I may reply or maybe not depending on the response, but the fact of the matter is that I am not a mark for the United States of America, and I just don't take offense to criticisms of the country. You will find that many Americans may very well agree with some of the things without getting their panties in a bunch.

The fact that Canadians on here got all fired up, tiffed, and so forth about this issue has only proved me correct in when I state that many Canadians act like marks for the country of Canada and its Canadian citizens, in general, because of your inferiority complex in trying to compare yourselves to the United States.

So congratulations, you all only proved me correct by your responses, instead of just letting it go or saying "Yeah, I personally agree that it's a little silly what some of the people in the country do, since Bret really isn't a National Hero or anything."

Instead you get all defensive over it. So thank you for proving me correct with the inferiority issues so many of you have.

Personally, and just between us, the United States and the Americans don't care about your inferiority complex, so my best advice is to get over it, because we have no desire to compare ourselves to you, challenge you over a scripted sporting-type event, or anything of that nature. We just don't care. So please get over yourselves.




And the fact that you get your panties in a bunch over it shows me how much of a Canadian mark you are. Congrats.

I also love how people stick up for wrestlers who they should realistically have no emotional attachment to whatsoever when they really weren't part of your childhood. But then again, he's Canadian, so the need is there to stick up for one of your own in the scripted world of pro wrestling, so that's understandable.




You're too proud, to be honest. Tone it down a few notches. All of you. You don't see us acting like a bunch of Yankee Doodle Dandees on here, do you?

Realistically, the only thing that separates our two countries is an imaginary border. You're a human being. Why do you take so much pride in being a Canadian? There is no particular reason I should take pride in being an American. We are what we are. We had no choice where we were born. So why have pride in something you have no control over?

I realize a lot of this is new for you, as you have had instilled in all of your minds that "you must be proud, you must be proud" since an early age. It's just funny how the behavior still exists in so many Canadians today, and you can see it as clear as day in your words on the forum ... where as the American pride just for being "American" is going away on here.

You tell me who you see on this forum who is a mark for America, as much as you guys are marks for Canada. Who on here has the 100% American avatars, and flaunting the fact that they live in the United States, or Britain, or Mexico, or any other country for that matter. Now, why do you think they don't, but for some reason you guys feel the need to display that as something to especially be proud of, when its something you had zero control over?

It's silly.




Good for you. I think it's silly to think of someone as a hero when they compete in a scripted sporting event, and if Hart is a role model, then refer to him as a "role model", not a "hero".

However, even that is questionable, given his sexcapades on the road.





I love how some of you make up arguments and words out of thin air. When did I ever say you should be "ashamed of yourselves" at any point? I questioned who you labeled as heroes and why you act like marks for the country you were born in. Nothing more.





I have a secret. You can't tell me what to do on here. Well, I suppose you can, but I am under no obligation to listen to you.

Again, YOU are the one making up words. You and a couple of your friends did, as well. When did I ever say that "Canadians don't consider people who risk their lives to be a National Hero"?

I never said that.

What I criticized was you lumping someone like Bret Hart, a person who happened to be born in Canada, who obtained a contract with the WWE, like hundreds and hundreds of other people have over the years, in the same category as doctors, servicemen, firemen, police, etc.

Let me ask you something.

Do you think we should all think of John Cena, Batista, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Undertaker, CM Punk, Randy Orton, etc. as "American National Heroes"? Why or Why not?







No, before I was Modded, I would write similar things. Ask anyone on here who has been here for at least a year.

I am simply not afraid to take on topics that may get some people mad. We are here to talk, so we are going to talk. And I want to talk about silly fan behavior as it pertains to wrestling, and in this case, it is relative to the over-degree of Patriotism that exists in Canada, so much that your behavior in wanting to go so far as to compete with Americans over a scripted sporting event like pro wrestling is a turnoff for many Americans. It's stupid.




Is is your choice. Nothing will realistically change other than I brought it to your attention and it's something for you to think about and reflect on.

Why be marks for the country you were born into, which you had no choice in at birth?

Secondly, why regard someone as a National Hero is happens to be a celebrity who gained employment for a company, and what makes him representative of being a "hero" amongst Canadians? Why should someone like that be put in the same category as real people who risk or save lives in your country? Thirdly, should Americans view wrestlers born in the United States as National Heroes? Why or why not?

I'm not going to do the point for point silliness that everyone loves to do for love of being trolls. I'll just mention one name.

Hulk Hogan.

You cannot say the abundance of American wrestling fans have never regarded this man as a "Real American Hero", no pun Intended. Back in the late 80's, early 90's, there wasn't an American wrestling fan that wouldn't say Hulk was a NATIONAL HERO.

So to say us Canadians are ******ed marks for regarding someone as a national hero (which most of us will agree, we have never regarded Bret Hart as such, ever), is very much hypocritical because it doesn't take a long thread of debates of deep digging to see how high of a pedestal people put the Hulkster on, regardless of what your personal feelings may be of him.

I just ask, do you have something against Canadians because we respect a man for his accomplishments in this industry? No one holds a grudge over anyone who were fans of Hogan or any other American billed as a National Hero (which any NWA Champion could be seen as from the 40's and on), so why must you hold a grudge against Canadians for respecting a fellow countryman?

Next I expect insults towards Britons for their adoration of William/Steven Regal when he wrestles on his home turf. It's called pride of your country, and everyone who has it is simply normal. It doesn't make us Canadians any lesser of people for having it.

 

[CanadianBeauty]

As a fellow Canadian, I can honestly say that I do not consider Bret a National Hero...but thats just my opinion. There are people who have thier own opinions and what a hero should be. After all, everybody is entitled to thier own opinion.

I do consider him a person that I can look up too, however. This whole thing about us Canadian's being, how you say, obsessed with Bret Hart is blowing it way out of porportion. There are actually people here that don't know who he is, there are those that do, and respect him, those that do and don't care, and those that consider him a national hero. I do not.

It seems to me like for us Canadians...or Canucks its all about our own opinions. The majority of Canada more than likely loves Bret, and those of us who consider him a National Hero, and there are those that don't.

Thats just my take on it.

 

[lenguy]

Oh wow. Um after reading all that all i can say is..Sidious..wtf? Why do you care so much on how us canadians treat..other canadians? be a hero or not people will view who ever they want to view as a hero..you my friend have no control over that. I happen to view somebody off and old cartoon show as not only a hero but the kind of person people can look up to(tho he wasnt real) its just if your a kid or even an idol and you meet or see somebody that just completely flip flops your live and you say to yourself" thats who i want to be like when i grow older" or that could be just the kind of attitude you envy and you just aspire you be like that person. It doesnt matter who it is. Cat shit can be your idol and all time hero for all i care. You as an american have no right to dictate on who our national heroes can be.

But to answer the topic question. NO i dont see bret hart as a national hero, maybe to some but not to be. what did bret hart do? Capture some world titles and headlined a few wrestlemanias? Oh yes cuz up here that qualifies as "hero" material. I respect bret hart and all his accomplishments but that in not way effects my decision to view him as a national hero. A hero to me, is just somebody to look up to and admire because of something they did or maybe its just their character or personality. I am Canadian. and i have NEVER viewed bret hart in this manner. Would you be all over our asses if Vince had call Jericho or Edge at one point a canadian hero? Would you argument be exactly the same just cut our harts name and replace it with one of theirs?

Seriously i didnt even take the time to read any comment of yours after the first one because judging by a lot of peoples replies...your just pissing a lot of people off. I dont want to debate, because debating with you serves no point. Because your "always right". Why bother your just going to derail all my opinions or facts in favor of what you have to say. No point in fight you because to refuse to let up. Your basing a thread off of what one man said...have you actually asked a canadian? Did you ask, excuse me mr canadian...cuz thats what you would say. Do you view bret hart as a national hero. Chances are..the reply your going to get is..who in the hell is bret hart? Now in the less likely case that you come across a wrestling fan, the casual fan, I.E all the kiddies might view him as one. Does that make them wrong?sure if you want to hide behind your facts, But are you really going to argue that with a child? But in reality that kid as ever right to pick his or her heroes in life. Now if you came across and older fan chances are theyd say no and give you all the exact reasons many of us have already give to you. You and your omg 9 week trip to a country you obviously know nothing about.

Now this is where you shoot me down, be my guest. I dont care, your wrong you can defend yourself all you like...But sidious, speaking on behalf on my country(NOT ITS PEOPLE) you are flat out face down in the dirt wrong. Bret Hart its not viewed as the canadian hero up here by the majority like you and some people might think.

 

[Undar8d]

Why be marks for the country you were born into, which you had no choice in at birth?

Secondly, why regard someone as a National Hero is happens to be a celebrity who gained employment for a company, and what makes him representative of being a "hero" amongst Canadians? Why should someone like that be put in the same category as real people who risk or save lives in your country? Thirdly, should Americans view wrestlers born in the United States as National Heroes? Why or why not?

After doing some looking up, I felt the need to post;

First, Bret Hart said he was on the verge of becoming a Canadian national hero, not everyone in Canada. Bret Hart's ego is very big I agree, but you are blaming the whole mass of Canada for regarding Bret Hart as a national hero.
Here's a quote from Bret Hart during an interview:

' I think people don't understand sometimes what it was like for me & how much was at stake. I was on the verge of being a national hero up here at that time. Just winning the World Title made me a huge hero up here. To every Canadian, that was a huge thing, a big accomplishment, and when they tried to turn me into a heel and & say all those negative things about America, it did something for the Canadian fans, and gave them a platform & a voice."

Bret Hart believes in his mind that he is regarded as a National hero in Canada, because when he goes into Canada, you will hear tons of cheers and he was "it" back then. He is far from it, in my mind, because men who we have recognized as national heroes, are Pierre Trudeau or Pearson who established Canada into what it is today.

I agree to an extent that no Canadian should view Bret Hart as a national hero, but that does not give you any superior power to bash people for who they idolize. Little kids can view anyone that intrigues them as a national hero, because they are..little. Whatever they aspire to be when they grow up, they are on the wagon of idolizing that man/woman. Eventually they grow up and their hero becomes a thing of the past. An example would be my History teacher last semester was telling us a little about himself and he mentioned that his two main things back then was Hockey and how he thought Hulk Hogan was so awesome back then. Different people have different likes/heroes in their mind. You're not gonna change that.

Third question I won't answer, because I believe it's pretty stupid to even compare a scripted wrestler, who a child will love to someone who risks their lives 24 hours a day, to help bring peace to the world.


Fourth question; This shouldn't be a Why or Why Not question. People have different views on who they view. Not everyone that is Canadian fits your view on Bret Hart, Sidious.