Vince Mcmahon and his current wrestling vision and state of mind.

Chadmw

Getting Noticed By Management
After reading on wrestlezone the couple of news stories about VKM, making the staff work right after wrestlemania to re-wright raw the next night and the other story about the creative team being burned out because of his constant demands, is it possible that VKM's mind might be starting to slip and that he should maybe step down and start letting Stephanie take over.

Or is this really a non-issue and it's just Vince being Vince
 
I don't really know how to make a detailed post on this topic however, I think Vince just wants money and doesn't care what happens on the road to making money. I think he is totally sane and not slipping. He is a business man and this seems like a business move nothing wrong with his mindstate.
 
It's one of many recent decisions that make you have to at least wonder a bit.

Add this to the failed RAW guest host idea, involving the Jersey Troll at Wrestlemania, cutting actual matches for foolish backstage skits, and the overall poor level of planning for this year's Wrestlemania and one has to wonder about the overall direction of the company.

Oh, and less we forget, the man recently stated that he wanted the word Wrestling taken out of its' name.

Yeah, sure makes you wonder...

:rolleyes:
 
He probably called them all in because he knew, as someone who has been in the business all his life, that Wrestlemania 27 was a let down. So he needed to make up for it on Raw. Raw this week was more entertaining than 80% of Wrestlemania. I think he called these meetings to get on the ball and produce something to make up for it; via Rock vs. Cena. We all knew it was eventually going to happen, but i think they rewrote the script to make it happen this past Monday instead of later down the road.

I hope W27 was a wake-up call for Vince and the entire creative team.
 
Yeah I think Vince is still sane (or as sane as VKM can be). I agree that after WM27 went off the air,he knew immediately that it just wasnt good enough,so decided to get straight to work on the next Raw.

As for pushing the writing team hard,I think thats what any chairman of a successful company should be doing.

If I was to get a job on the creative team at WWE and I wasnt being hounded by VKM 24/7 to change this,improve that etc....I would be kinda worried.Hes dropped the ball a few times as peope have mentioned like the Raw guest hosts,the million dollar giveaway sillyness,constant celebrity involvement going awry (Mayweathers 'hes a face.everyone hates him.ok then hes a heel' incident). But consider how many good things have happened in that time.

I think VKM has an incredibly tough job and will never do it perfectly all the time.But when things arent going perfectly,he cracks the whip.Nothing wrong with that IMO
 
Not only did he want to have a great Raw show, but I think this "creative burn-out" is a product of Vince McMahon's agenda to further emphasize the "entertainment" over the wrestling. This is why WrestleMania matches were sacrificed for promos and segments. For him, in the long run, taking the "wrestling" out must mean attracting people to the brand that aren't necessarily fans of wrestling. To make WWE a bigger part of the culture of mainstream entertainment and not just the subculture of wrestling fans. So obviously if shows are going to be increasing in "entertainment", they have to decrease in match time, increase in ideas for storylines, scripts, booking, and gimmicks, meaning an increase in the quantity and intensity of writers meetings. This is what happened with WrestleMania and the post-Wrestlemania Raw...
Lets hope it doesn't hurt the experience of true fans any more than it has been.
 
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I think he is sane, but this sounds a little like the crap that WCW was going through before the end came, except Vnce states who gets pushed not the boys unless you are in the HHH group of boys.

I think Vince knew WM27 was a let down way before it even happened, i believe that is why the Rock was there, to get more people to buy tickets and PPV's. Honestly how many would have bought the ppv if the Rock was not going to be there???

I think he was bringing older stars to try to get this show up an running, while sacrificing for a story later on. Did it work? I think so, but its not going to work for long unless they really establish these younger guys they are using.
 
I agree with Simple Hero.

I won't hide the fact that I'm more of a TNA mark than a WWE one and that my opinion certainly has a bias. But if I can try to put my bias aside for a moment, I wouldn't say Vince is slipping any more than I'd say WWE overall the past couple of years has been slipping, but his recent actions strikes me more of a realization that WM27 was mostly crap and unfortunately we in the IWC had the foresight to know that, unless there was going to be some twists or surprises, that it was going to be crap long before it even happened and there weren't any twists or surprises. While most of the past couple of manias sat on the shoulders of MITB and a classic match or two involving Michaels and/or Undertaker (Michaels/Flair, Taker/Edge, Michaels/Taker 1 and 2), this one had no MITB and the Undertaker-HHH match, to put it fairly, did not live up to expectations.

Raw looks like a sound step in the right direction: Sin Cara's ball is rolling and they've already announced a match at WM 28 that is sure to put butts in seats with a year of anticipation towards what will truly be a marquee match fit for a Mania. Now they've got plenty of time to put together more matches and of course Undertaker's twentieth match of the streak which they will most surely (okay, that might be too optimistic) plan better than this year's. It's kind of like this past Raw was "yeah, we effed up. But we promise 28 will be great" and as much as I've fallen off the bandwagon, for now I believe them. Then again, I predicted this Mania would be great after Del Rio won the Rumble and they did literally not a single other thing to make me interested, so only time will tell.
 
First off Vince has never been 100% sane , if he want's to make WWE an entertainment company then fine take the word WRESTLING out of the name and call it WSE = World Sports Entertainment , don't call it a wrestling company because it's not ROH is a wrestling company and for $20 bucks I saw TWO GREAT SHOWS FULL OF WRESTLING from ROH this past weekend and for $55 bucks I saw a 4 hour entertainment show with some "Sports Entertainment style wrestling" sprinkled in there . So Vince being Vince calls the meeting to review and rewrite RAW which did no good because RAW still sucked AGAIN and made little to know sense at all . So hire some more hollywood writers , write great "entertainment" television and leave the Pro Wrestling to ROH because WWE isn't Wrestling and hasn't been for a LONG LONG time . go Hollywood , be entertaining and leave the wrestling to PRO WRESTLERS .
 
It's definitely not time for vince to "retire." It's his business and he built the wwe into what it is today. yes, things have gone extremely mainstream and they've completely burnt out this John Cena gig, but you've got to realize, he's the reason for wrestlemania, he's the reason we have the greatest gimmick of all time in the undertaker, he's the reason for hulkamania, he's the reason wcw isn't still going with someone godawful like jeff jarrett being the man. vincent kennedy mcmahon is the bomb.com!

Thank you vince for all you've done for us as fans and for the wrestlers in the industry. :worship:


vince knows what he's doing even if it doesn't appear that he does. he is very very egocentric, but you've got to be when you're in his position. until he wants his "child" to be adopted, he will raise it how he wants to and it's damn fine by me.
 
First of all, for those of you talking about the "taking wrestling out", not one of you has shown that you have idea what of what you are talking about, so quit talking about. He wants to take "wrestling" out of the name, to differentiate himself from legitimate sports for legal reason. His product isn't going to change though.

As far as this goes, I'm surprised the news surprises people? You obviously haven't been following the WWE. McMahon has ALWAYS been known as a workaholic, a guy who has been described as getting less than 4 hours of sleep a day, and has only a singular focus in life. This really isn't all that newsworthy.
 
VKM is getting behind on booking and where WWE needs to be. Remember VKM, is in the showbiz industry not wrestling industry so people need to realize that VKM's mind is on capitalizing on pop culture.

We know Cena, Snooki, Miz and others completely suck wrestling wise put they are tied into pop culture there fore he pushes them.

VKM in all honesty needs to revert back into catering to the 18-35 demo because we carry buyrates and are the demo that will buy WWE items and PPVs.
 
Maybe Vince is losing his mind.

Actually, he isn't. Maybe the creative department has been set on cruise control for far too long, and Vince is sick of it. Maybe he wants more creativity in the storylines. Maybe these people have never experienced Vince wanting top-notch writing, and this is his way of making them understand what he expects.

I don't think the product has been bad over the past few years, but it's definitely nowhere near as creative as it once was.

-Guy wins #1 Contenders Match
-Guy says he wants title shot
-Guy, week after week, calls out Champion, to tell him he is the better man
-Guy and Champion have a competition-based feud for three months.


The storylines are so..bland. To be honest, it's been a bit better over the past year (Nexus, Rock coming in, etc.). Since last summer, I have seen something different in the WWE, different from the past few years. The company seems to want a great show, not just something that floats. Vince wants creativity, and he's going to get it, one way or the other.

Vince cracking the whip is actually the best news I've heard, wrestling-wise, in quite some time.
 
Like I said it my original post, maybe this is a non-issue, but with his creative staff complaining lately and also the removal of the word wrestling, I just find it strange. Remember the man is 66 years old, sometimes the mind starts slipping a little at that age.


And just a quick note about not using the word wrestler or wrestling any more. I don't know how many people noticed, but on Raw this week I found it sounded very strange when Cole said, I'm 1 and 0 at wrestlemania, I'm now an "entertainer". To me this sounded very stupid, as a commentator is was always an entertainer (instead of saying what he might have said a few weeks ago "I am now a wrestler").


Vince build this company on being a Wrestling entertainment company, now all of a sudden he is ashamed of it. And honestly you can call a dog a cat, but it's really still a dog
 
Two things: 1. TNA marks crack me up. They act as if TNA does anything different than WWE. They don't. They take all of WWE's castaways and do plenty of in ring and backstage promos. The difference is, they do it with men and women the WWE doesn't want. 2. Wrestling is fine, stop trying to be "wrestling know it alls" where you sit and try to critique each and every detail that happens. You are NOT writers or critics. Find that little kid in you that made you like wrestling to begin with and just be happy there is still wrestling to watch before you are part of the reason wrestling dies. Instead of worrying about what wrestling doesn't do or doesn't have be thankful we still have it. In life good things don't last forever.
 
Vince build this company on being a Wrestling entertainment company, now all of a sudden he is ashamed of it. And honestly you can call a dog a cat, but it's really still a dog

That's the part that really bothers me.

You own the most popular wrestling company in the world!

You've earned 1 billion dollars doing it!

Be proud of that and of the business you've made, rather than acting embarrassed of it an trying to be something you're not.

The entire 'Hollywood wannabe' act from Vince McMahon, is, was, and always will be embarrassing.

The most recent example of putting 'The Jersey ****e' on your premier event being another embarrassment.

I'd like to hear from one person who ordered that event because Vince paid that pig whatever he did to show up. Just one!

You own and operate a company based on wrestling, be proud of that!
 
I guess I'll jump back into the convo.

First of all, we don't have definite confirmation that VKM is trying to pull out the word "wrestling" from the name altogether or of using the term "wrestling" as a term for what the talent does in the ring, but we definitely know they've been moving away from the term gradually from the past couple of years. I think that using the argument that it relates to a more legally sound separation from "sports" is a bit of a cop-out. This is and always has been "professional wrestling" and the differentiation from "professional wrestling" and actual sports should be obvious enough already at least going back the span of my lifetime (1984). Everybody knows what "Greco-Roman wrestling" and "amateur wrestling" means, and everybody know what "professional wrestling" means. There is no reason for a further legal breakdown unless there is a pretty serious assessment that people, at least in America, in general, are mentally challanged, and the idea that maybe there is a pretty serious assessment of that, while wouldn't completely surprise me, is baffling nonetheless.

Going back to the OP, I think this is something that will require further analysis if WM28 is just as much of a bust, albeit at that point it would definitely constitute a very strong argument in the OP's favor. It is too early to tell right now, but I think going through the semantics of what VKM prefers to refer to his brand of "entertainment" is, while perhaps a valid point of curiosity potentially related to the content of his shows, at most tangential to the main thesis: that VKM is losing his mind. That point, of VKM losing his mind, should most thoroughly be critiqued through the content of his shows from here on out and not through the manner in which he desires to refer to his shows.
 
At silrock: I suppose that was meant as a shot to me, and I'm here defending VKM. I think next year's WM will be great. There's no reason for you to attack me or others especially when we probably share similar opinions about a lot of things. I prefer TNA that's true, I think Lockdown will be probably be better than Mania and that's my opinion; I prefer TNA's roster to WWE's, and that's why I expect better results; if it isn't (and I can't imagine how it wouldn't) that won't bother me.
 
Okay... but what if the original ideas were better?

Vince rearranged the WM27 Card every hour they said, he was obviously very nervous and seems to have lost his touch on knowing what the fuck to do!

Actually, I liked the order of the matches, I thought it was pretty damn good, but no Daniel Bryan vs Sheamus?

Titles don't mean shit... 0 Titles changed hands... 3 Champions got squashed... 2 Champions got left off the card completely...

I mean if he didn't kill The Corre at WM27... he sure as hell did by having them randomly run out and be jobber trash for The Rock and Cena...

But.. I have faith in Smackdown, I think they can bring The Corre back from this. Such talent can't be held down.

Ok, and take Kozlov off of Mania for Kofi to stand on the apron? Would it really have been that hard to just let Kozlov stand on the apron? Instead you had to crush his dreams? And where the fuck is Sheffield? That match could have easily had substance...

All I want is some damn wrestling... and we seen some good bouts with mysterio/rhodes and then Punk/Orton..
 
Yea, Vince McMahon is a genius and business marvel for what he has done over the years, you can't deny that. He has brought us some of the best entertainment available anywhere and yes he has made some mistakles along the way which has been mentioned already in this thread.

However, in my opinion Vince has taken the company as far as he can take it I think. I don't think it's just the creative teams or current gimmicks that are burnt out, i think Vinnie MAC himself is starting to feel the effects of burn out. So, perhaps now is the time for him to step down and move on.

Let Shane and Stephanie step in who both have a wealth of knowledge in the business and have grown up in and around it. Maybe fresh faces and a new way of doing things will give the WWE a re-birth. But the only problem that lies with that is the influence that Vinnie MAC would have over them. For it to work, he would have to hand over total control.

But just for the record, I don't see any of that happening. I think Vince is hear for a lot longer yet, I just hope he can turn things round after wrestlemania. WM 27 wasn't as good as it could've been, but it certainly wasn't rubbish....Edge v Alberto Del Rio, Taker v HHH and Cena v Miz were all great matches I thought but the rest of the card was pretty lame.
 
Vince wants the wwe to not be called wrestling, but everything about the company is wrestling. everything was built from wrestling. we just watched "wrestlemania", as a matter of fact. but as you can tell, the shows have been having less and less wrestling matches, and more storylines. its turning more into the soaps then wrestling. the problem with this is the fact that the wwe is trying to get its own tv channel. so what is gonna be on that channel? wwe movies? old wwe matches? or soap operas? but honestly, i think vkm is trying to expand his business to more than just wrestling fans. he wants his shows to be watched by people of all kinds.

the real question is gonna be, whenever vince does retire and let triple h take over, what will he do? will he try to change everything, or will he keep it the way it is? because it really doesnt matter if vince retires or not, he'll always have a hand in the pot. him retiring is irrelevant. his heir is a smart business man, but how much freedom will he have? we might see the same things, even after vince "retires"
 
I'll respond to the topic in a moment, but first....

It's definitely not time for vince to "retire." It's his business and he built the wwe into what it is today. yes, things have gone extremely mainstream and they've completely burnt out this John Cena gig, but you've got to realize, he's the reason for wrestlemania, he's the reason we have the greatest gimmick of all time in the undertaker, he's the reason for hulkamania, he's the reason wcw isn't still going with someone godawful like jeff jarrett being the man. vincent kennedy mcmahon is the bomb.com!

Thank you vince for all you've done for us as fans and for the wrestlers in the industry. :worship:


vince knows what he's doing even if it doesn't appear that he does. he is very very egocentric, but you've got to be when you're in his position. until he wants his "child" to be adopted, he will raise it how he wants to and it's damn fine by me.

To clear up a few things.

1st: A gentleman by the name of Dr. D David Shultz is the reason for Wrestlemania. He thought up the name, thought up the concept and pitched it to the WWF. Had he worked for JCP, AWA, WCCW or the NWA we would be thanking them for Wrestlemania today.

2: Vince McMahon Sr came up with the Hulk Hogan gimick. Verne Gagne got it over and made him a Superstar. All McMahon did was sign away the AWA's biggest star AFTER he was known worldwide.

3: Thank Time Warner for there being no WCW. They are the sole reason for WCW no longer being here, noone else. They didn't want the product and had no plans to keep the product going. The hope was they could boost the ratings and buyrates(which BTW are around the same area as the WWE currently draws) high enough to unload it at a nice profit.

Now, back to the OP, for the most part this is just Vince being Vince and you gotta figure he's reeling this last month and a bit worried. When one ten minute block of TV featuring a "Superstar" who has been gone for nearly a decade exposes your product of the last five years as horrible and completely blows eight years of pushing your "new Hogan" out the window? You gotta be on notice. Consider the (un)creative team on notice.

Aside from being nice fodder for discussion it's really a nonstory. Go back and ask Hogan, Roberts, Russo, Ferrara, Ross, Cornette, Jerry Jarrett, Heyman, Rhodes, Terry Taylor and so on who have all sat on the creative team at one point or another and they'll say the same thing, total nonstory. They've all said as much already time and time again. When Vince feels the product can be better he pushes you. When he is under pressure you're under pressure. They've all talked about pulling the late night meetings and working after one show until 3 or 4AM on the next show and STILL working on it as they ride in Vinces limo back to the hotel, more oft than not only packing it in after they step off the elevator to go get a few hours sleep. That's how Vince works.

If they're burnt out he'll hire some new ones. Hell, he may do that anyways. I would hope, especially considering if the last RAW was what they produce by trying harder as it was horrible. This story seems to fit with the reports about Stephanie and HHH pushing him to reevaluate the current developmental territory a few weeks back. Now after Cena was heckled nonstop at the WM presser followed by a shitty Wrestlemania he's pushing the writers harder than they are apparently used to? Good. It means he isn't satisfied with the current product either. Do the right thing Vince, hire some better writers with their fingers on the pulse of what is entertaining these days.
 
I think the whole PG thing is lunacy. The booking alone tells you the writers are conflicted with that style of show. How are you going to have a no rules contest with Undertaker and HHH and keep it PG? How is it possible to bring Stonecold back and tell him to be PG when his whole shtick was flipping people off and cussing? Then you try to make the Rock a giant babyface and have him lead the crowd in chants when he used to hate the crowd cutting his chants off? Not to mention getting on to The Rock for using a signature catch phrase on Raw with cussing in it. Seems that with the whole PG thing the WWE is alienating past fans from the Attitude era and trying to get them to stay away.

In the past three years I have watched 3 WWE shows, all of them being Wrestlemania because I like the History and the usual content of Wrestlemanias. But for the past three years no Wrestlemania has caught my interest enough to make me keep watching the show the next night and weeks after. I mean your two biggest stars right now are Eminem with muscles and an MTV Reality star. For the love of God bring back good wrestlers with good gimmicks.
 
Well you wrote this like your actual name is Paul, or Stephanie. I don't think he will lose it because he is getting older. Guys who are 3-4 years younger than him are currently wrestling. Honestly, if i were the owner of WWE i would be worried more than he was and bury creative. Raw had been boring for a long while, till it picked up on "road to wrestlemania". However, i legitimately say this: Last Raw was very very entertaining... When i realized it was time for Cena to come out, i didn't beleive 2 hours have already past. So i think putting pressure on certain people is helping for Raw to become a better show. Not suprisingly, the ratings are over 3.5 for some time now.
 
No, Vince isn't losing his mind. I believe he finally came to the realization at Mania that the writing team had been set on cruise control for far to long. Because Mania other than some of the matches was completely botched on the booking aspect of it.

The main event was completely ruined. The double count out was absolutely horrible. There are more creative ways to get the Rock involved in the match, then by him coming out and restarting the match. The other major problem was the World Heavyweight title was the first match on the card. What? I don't know who's idea that was, but they should be fired. I seriously doubt that it was Vince. Though I don't kow why Vince would allow that to happen.

There's nothing creative anymore. The CM Punk and Orton feud is the first one in awhile that I can remember that was simply a grudge feud. When the E was at its prime that's all you had. Also, where are the mid-card feuds that would last for months. Or even a year? It was these feuds that made the main event stars of the attitude era. We need main eventers fight each other with purpose. Like the Orton Punk feud. Give Morrison a Feud with the Miz, or something of that nature so that Morrison can elevate himself to the main event. He had a good Feud with Shamus.

I hope that Vince's get back to what made the "E" great. Not the blood, not the sex filled shows. It was the story lines that made the Attitude era great. If he can get creative back on track with creative stories then I don't think anyone would care if it was pg. If not, maybe he should retire.
 

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