"USA! USA! USA!" - Jack Swagger's America?

[Uncle Sam]

Quick recap - Alberto Del Rio is Mexican. Jack Swagger is American. Del Rio is the face, Swagger is the heel. Jack Swagger, and his manager Zeb Colter, have been garnering heat by railing against immigration, political correctness and, um-- what else do right-wingers hate? Redistribution of wealth! Yeah, Swagger hates that shit.

This week, Jack Swagger jumped Alberto Del Rio from behind and viciously broke Del Rio's manager Ricardo Rodriguez's ankle. The crowd in Pittsburgh started an audible "USA!" chant.

Uncontrollable racism of hilarious sarcasm? You decide!

 

[The Butcher]

Uncontrollable racism of hilarious sarcasm?

Both. Pittsburgh is equal parts Pennsylvania and West Virginia, which makes it monochromatic and conservative. Considering it was one of the loudest chants of the night, I doubt it was purely sarcasm. A lot of people really do agree with what Colter says, not out of racism, but out of a mix xenophobia and ignorance. But I'll tell you what Ricardo Rodruigez ain't gonna be jumpin' no fences notime soon, amirite?

 

[LeviCook]

I don't think agreeing with them automatically makes someone a racist. I agree with at least 95% of what they say. And i think there are a lot of other people out there that listens to what they say and can see truth to it.

 

[Kliq]

I don't think agreeing with them automatically makes someone a racist. I agree with at least 95% of what they say. And i think there are a lot of other people out there that listens to what they say and can see truth to it.

Agreed.

There was a comment in one of the articles on the WZ home page saying something to the effect that since likes and dislikes on those 'Disqus' comments are anonymous, click like if you actually agree with Swagger's character, click dislike if you don't agree with Swagger's character. Last time I looked it was something along the lines of 70 likes to 12 dislikes.

 

[markbyrn]

First off, being against illegal immigration is not racism and so your loaded question is out of order. The problem is not with the fans; it's with WWE and and extremely poor creative in making a character that has legitimate concerns about about illegal immigration yet is also a bigot. So while the audience might not like Coulter's open bigotry, they agree with his politics on immigration.

The Coulter character should have been scripted as a vile racist who suggests sending all the hispanics back to Mexico and the blacks to Africa but it's not happening because the Jews won't let it. Than if the audience rooted for that, you might suggest the audience is racist. As it is now, Coulter is only a heel to liberal democrats.

Of more import, this botched creative move to get Swagger over is not working because he doesn't show any particular capacity to get that kind of character over except in the most cartoonish fashion. Swagger has no charisma and he's not the next Kurt Angle.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

First off, being against illegal immigration is not racism

True, but when you make it a key political point of a group that was supposed to be about small government and Taxed Enough Already then incessantly talk about it and blame your or your country's problems on it you start to wonder where is the motivation.

and so your loaded question is out of order.

Not really, for someone who defiantly states that "being against illegal immigration is not racism" should also see the other side of argument that "racists are most likely against illegal immigration."

The problem is not with the fans; it's with WWE and and extremely poor creative in making a character that has legitimate concerns about about illegal immigration yet is also a bigot. So while the audience might not like Coulter's open bigotry, they agree with his politics on immigration.

Maybe, but why chant "USA! USA, USA"? In the moment isn't that a shot against Del Rio and Rodriguez aka "The Mexicans"?

The Coulter character should have been scripted as a vile racist who suggests sending all the hispanics back to Mexico and the blacks to Africa but it's not happening because the Jews won't let it. Than if the audience rooted for that, you might suggest the audience is racist. As it is now, Coulter is only a heel to liberal democrats.

Do you really think someone has to be liberal and Democrat to think Coulter is a heel?

Of more import, this botched creative move to get Swagger over is not working because he doesn't show any particular capacity to get that kind of character over except in the most cartoonish fashion. Swagger has no charisma and he's not the next Kurt Angle.

I totally agree with your assessment of Swagger. The guy just looks bad and this new character doesn't hide that. I even think his ring work is overrated. This character would have been used on others so much better.


Back to the topic, I think the outspoken fans were just trying to be funny. It was kind of funny. The show was kind of dull and the fans needed an outlet to make their own fun. This angle and feud have been stretched out and lost some luster. It might as well turn in to another 18 second match to open Mania.

Then again it's Pittsburg so I could just as effectively blame it on the results of drinking contaminated water and suffering through another Pirates season.

 

[Jeritron5000]

Uncontrollable racism of hilarious sarcasm? You decide!

Neither. As Swagger and Colter have pointed out to Glenn Beck, this is entertainment and they're just characters not to be taken seriously. Simple truth here is Del Rio is terrible, the feud is overall terrible, and I think the fans were just making fun of the dog crap that's being placed in front of them. By this logic, anyone that cheered Hogan during his match with The Rock at Mania X8 may or may not have been condoning the attempts the nWo made on The Rock's life. Dude, remember? Hogan tried to KILL Rocky with a freakin semi truck! As far as the WWE goes...they did this to themselves.

 

[JGlass]

Being against illegal immigration isn't bigoted. Attacking anyone that looks like they could be an illegal immigrant is bigoted. Focusing all your hatred towards a single group of people and blaming them for all of your problems is bigoted. Jack Swagger and Zeb Coutler are definitely bigoted.

As for the "USA!" chants we heard Monday, I wouldn't put too much stock into them. We have a Nationalist mentality in America where if you aren't constantly showing your support for the USA then you are against the USA. How many times has a presidential candidate taken flack for not wearing a United States flag pin or putting their hand over their heart for the national anthem, or even saying, "God bless America," at the end of a speech? I reckon some people in the audience started chanting USA out of jest, or possibly out of a place of hate, but then the majority of people to follow suit were just doing it because they are culturally programmed to continue that chant.

 

[Howie Backpack]

i just hope the USA chant catches on and makes wwe look dumber than they already look for putting Jack "no one can take me seriously because i threaten with a lisp" Swagger in a World Title match at Wrestlemania.

 

[JabroniBeater81]

I think you people's selective memory is kicking in. Racist crowd was chanting USA during the Del Rio-Rhodes match, way before Swagger and Coulter even came out. Swagger character is making people express their true racist feelings under the veil and blanket of "it's just a storyline." And I attended a house show in northwest Indiana last weekend, and you see a lot of white people clapping for Swagger and Coulter's promo. Mind you, Indiana is the birthplace of the KKK.

 

[The Butcher]

Being against illegal immigration isn't bigoted. Attacking anyone that looks like they could be an illegal immigrant is bigoted. Focusing all your hatred towards a single group of people and blaming them for all of your problems is bigoted. Jack Swagger and Zeb Coutler are definitely bigoted.

As for the "USA!" chants we heard Monday, I wouldn't put too much stock into them. We have a Nationalist mentality in America where if you aren't constantly showing your support for the USA then you are against the USA. How many times has a presidential candidate taken flack for not wearing a United States flag pin or putting their hand over their heart for the national anthem, or even saying, "God bless America," at the end of a speech? I reckon some people in the audience started chanting USA out of jest, or possibly out of a place of hate, but then the majority of people to follow suit were just doing it because they are culturally programmed to continue that chant.

You're absolutely right, but there are racial undertones to the feud and I have no doubt that there are significant contingents in regions like NW Pennsylvania that aren't smart enough to see the parody but are racist enough to latch on to the white guy vs. brown guy aspect.

 

[zhaff2004]

coouple of things I've gathered from this whole Coulter/Swagger/Del Rio angle.

Firstly, I'm not American, I've never been to the USA so my opinion will reflect that somewhat...

I want to "compare" This whole thing with what JBL/Guerrero did in 04. JBL played a smiliar-ish character when he went to the border and started kicking these "illegal immigrants" out. I don't remember the crowd chanting USA, USA, USA, instead he was resoundingly boo'd. Why doesn't Coulter and Swagger get boo'd?

I feel that its because, at the end of the day, JBL was stopping people from entering a country that was seen as a beacon of hope, a country that was to allow families the chance to live and the chance to escape from the pits of poverty and seek a better life. Our friend Colter here is taking the issue and saying that all these so called illegal immigrants are not only seeking a better life over here but are doing so at the expense of Americans. People can relate to this as a lot of people may feel that foreigners are coming in and taking their jobs etc from them which in turn allows them to live the "American Dream" at the expense of real Americans.

WWE is sports entertainment, its meant to be a way for people to escape from reality for a few hours a week and enjoy a cartoon world. (essentially) So when real life struggles and concerns come through, you are going to see that people will cheer for the bigot in Colter who represents so called true American values over the face Del Rio who essentially is portrayed as a man who represents illegal immigrants and those who take jobs away from working class America.

We need to look at wrestling's overall audience to see that maybe, a good number of people who watch the show can relate and understand what Colter is saying.


Now finally, if WWE really want to go hard with this, they could have tossed Colter with Cesaro. Imagine that. Cesaro can be seen as the real american due to his traits and personality and what he represents, being aided by Coters silver tongue. That would be good, The crowd then can chant USA all they want and it would be justified.

In the end, good luck trying to get 20 000 people in an arena to boo their own country and cheer for another.

 

[derkman7]

The sad thing is I'm from Pittsburgh. I was watching and thinking to myself "Wow, finally some racist pricks. I wonder what low-brow southern city they're in tonight." Then Cole said they were in Pittsburgh, and I just face-palmed.

Although, I will say that the outlying areas around Pittsburgh are big hubs for the Tea Party (especially Butler, PA). I was quite surprised when I moved here to see so much support for them (especially since PA went for Obama in 2008 and 2012). I even have quite a few friends that have the "Don't Tread on Me" flag in their living rooms.

The other thing that really surprises me is that Butler has often been called the "heroin capital of the US." I don't know how extreme conservatism and heroin use tie together, but it somehow does.

 

[DirtyD79]

But I'll tell you what Ricardo Rodruigez ain't gonna be jumpin' no fences notime soon, amirite?

The only way it could have been any funnier is if Jack Swagger said " now you get hoppin'" after he broke Ricardo's ankle. I'm sorry but the whole thing was just too comical. I could swear Ricardo was channeling Nancy Kerrigan screaming "WHY? WHY? WHY?" after Jack Swagger played a big stubbled Tonya Harding and busted that leg.

 

[I Heart Cena]

People who agree with Zeb, are hypocrites. The only illegal immigrants are white people, who illegally hopped the Atlantic. They came and took from the real Americans, the natives. Mexicans have been on this continent far longer than the white man. The southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico.

This angle is different than if Wade Barrett was the WHC, and Zeb was insulting him instead. Why? Because Wade isn't an indigenous North American, like Albert is part. Al and all Mexicans belong here more than whites.

But racism will always exist. People will hate those who are different from them.

Al needs his richboy swag back and needs to teach the WWE Universe this hypocrisy. People will still be racist towards him, but maybe a few people will shut up about it.

 

[Tor187]

People who agree with Zeb, are hypocrites. The only illegal immigrants are white people, who illegally hopped the Atlantic. They came and took from the real Americans, the natives. Mexicans have been on this continent far longer than the white man. The southwest rightfully belongs to Mexico.

This angle is different than if Wade Barrett was the WHC, and Zeb was insulting him instead. Why? Because Wade isn't an indigenous North American, like Albert is part. Al and all Mexicans belong here more than whites.

But racism will always exist. People will hate those who are different from them.

Al needs his richboy swag back and needs to teach the WWE Universe this hypocrisy. People will still be racist towards him, but maybe a few people will shut up about it.

You're wrong. Europeans weren't illegal immigrants when they came to the New World and conquered the land. There was no organized government at the time; only a bunch of tribes who inhabited different parts of the entire Americas.

Saying "Mexicans have been on this continent far longer than the white man" is just completely ridiculous. There was no such thing as Mexico up until a few hundred years ago

What "Mexican race" are you referring to? There is no such thing. There are people from Mexico of different races including White, Native, and mixed (Mestizo).

 

[Con T.]

You know what?

I blame Jim Duggan.

Yep, that Jim Duggan. Fahk a de Hacksaw Jeem Doogan. Fahk his ass, and make heem hoomble.

De Jeem Doogan alvays do the "USA, USA, USA" chant, and the intelligent Merican Jew fans go along with it, without thinking. And the "USA, USA" (acht, tooie) chants, they get over, vhere no one knows vhy they chant it, and intelligent Merican Jew fan turns into stupid, Merican Jew fan.

Zey see intelligent, Merican athlete, and zey start the "USA, USA" chant, and fahk de Jeem Doogan, fahk his ass


Translation; wrestling fans are stupid. What more could you want?

 

[I Heart Cena]

You're wrong. Europeans weren't illegal immigrants when they came to the New World and conquered the land. There was no organized government at the time; only a bunch of tribes who inhabited different parts of the entire Americas.

Saying "Mexicans have been on this continent far longer than the white man" is just completely ridiculous. There was no such thing as Mexico up until a few hundred years ago

What "Mexican race" are you referring to? There is no such thing. There are people from Mexico of different races including White, Native, and mixed (Mestizo).

Did Americans invite Europeans to come and take the land? No.

Mestizos have lineage here longer than white people.

Bottom line is that it's ridiculous for anyone to agree with Zeb's trolling. This land is becoming more and more Hispanic, and that's good, considering the first European language spoken here was Spanish.

 

[thomasgj]

Saying "Mexicans have been on this continent far longer than the white man" is just completely ridiculous. There was no such thing as Mexico up until a few hundred years ago

What "Mexican race" are you referring to? There is no such thing. There are people from Mexico of different races including White, Native, and mixed (Mestizo).

Well considering Mexicans come from Native American (and Spanish) descent that's not completely wrong what he said. The point is that they weren't the first people in the land we call America, and it's not as though white people don't immigrate here as well – so there's nothing that makes anyone of any race more American than the other unless one isn't American at all.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Being against illegal immigration doesn't someone a bigot. A lot of people are genuinely concerned that it could be easy for someone who means to do serious harm, someone with a terrorist agenda for instance, to come into the country without any degree of supervision. During this angle, the WWE & Swagger and Coulter's characters have focused primarily on Del Rio as a representative of Mexican immigration. Pointing out that the VAST majority of illegal immigrants are from Mexico isn't racist, it's simply a fact of life. Simply calling it an issue of race is simplifying things far, far too much. If you remember a brief encounter Coulter & Swagger had with Wade Barrett. It seems that Coulter & Swagger's view is a xenophobic stance on immigration as a whole, no matter what race or nationality a person is.

Part of the reason this has angered some involved in Republican and/or Tea Party politics is they believe WWE is trying to paint them all as bigots. I've gone to a few Tea Party speeches just to see what all the fuss is about and a lot of what I heard made anything Swagger & Coulter have said in this angle seem extremely PG. I can't say that everyone there believed in exactly the same thing in the same way, but I heard more than enough to turn my stomach more than a bit. I heard a few racial slurs tossed around. I heard a few phrases by some people that were in the same category as "shoot 'em all and let Got sort 'em out". For the right wing to attempt to pretend that a healthy number of conservatives don't share this extreme view is ludicrous. An answer to their image problems would be to simply clean their act up.

As to the fans who chanted "USA" on Monday, who can tell really? Maybe they were cheering for Del Rio as Del Rio has been booked as sort of being a champion of American in which America "belongs to everybody". They may have been chanting for Swagger instead, or maybe some for the both of them.

Another explanation is that they were simply cheering for Swagger because he's heel. Lotsa fans like doing that these days. It's not all that uncommon for some heels to get more cheers than some of the babyfaces.

One thing I wanted to address was another poster saying that Indiana was the birthplace of the KKK. Actually, the KKK originated in Tennessee. It rose to being a national power politically during the 1920s, but it was strongest in Indiana. The Klan even helped elect many Indiana politicians during the 20s, including DC Stephenson to the office of Governor, before he was tried & convicted of the rape & murder of a woman named Madge Oberholtzer. After the attack, she said to have told him "I'll have the law on you", only for Stephenson to reply "I am the law in Indiana". Prior to being Governor, Stephenson was the "Grand Dragon" of the KKK.

 

[bigsteviepump]

I don't usually get on here and post, but I always like to read what people are thinking or saying. The simple fact of the matter is Jack Swagger has more buzz now than he has ever had in his career. Six months ago there wouldn't have even been a board about Jack Swagger. Whether you like his CHARACTER or not the WWE succeeded in getting him relevant. I think they did a great job. The whole purpose is to get a crowd reaction one way or another. They have done that.


WE THE PEOPLE! (priceless)

 

[Sub-Xero]

For me, that chant was the highlight of a bad Raw. It was my first live WWE event since SSlam 1995, and I have to say i was sorely disappointed. But back on topic...Personally that chant had nothing to do with the storyline and everything to do with Del Rio vs Swagger as wrestlers. Del Rio was dangerously close to X-Pac territory here in Pittsburgh. Nobody gave a shit about him, and the only reason for the entrance pop was RR basically asking the crowd to yell during his introduction. Since we don't like Del Rio, what else is there to do? Chant USA to fuck with him. It's not that we agree or disagree with Swagger and Colter, it's just that Del Rio is just not over as a face.

 

[vampxx24]

True, but when you make it a key political point of a group that was supposed to be about small government and Taxed Enough Already then incessantly talk about it and blame your or your country's problems on it you start to wonder where is the motivation.



Not really, for someone who defiantly states that "being against illegal immigration is not racism" should also see the other side of argument that "racists are most likely against illegal immigration."



Maybe, but why chant "USA! USA, USA"? In the moment isn't that a shot against Del Rio and Rodriguez aka "The Mexicans"?



Do you really think someone has to be liberal and Democrat to think Coulter is a heel?



I totally agree with your assessment of Swagger. The guy just looks bad and this new character doesn't hide that. I even think his ring work is overrated. This character would have been used on others so much better.


Back to the topic, I think the outspoken fans were just trying to be funny. It was kind of funny. The show was kind of dull and the fans needed an outlet to make their own fun. This angle and feud have been stretched out and lost some luster. It might as well turn in to another 18 second match to open Mania.

Then again it's Pittsburg so I could just as effectively blame it on the results of drinking contaminated water and suffering through another Pirates season.

ok..... people need to understand like the guy above said.... they really started to botch this, and its possibly do to the fact that they dont want to overstep the racist b oundry....... except from the debut, zeb has said things that ALOT of americans, especially republicans. hes not saying if your not american get out. he said in a promo either last week or the week before , its FINE if there here, but they have to learn english within a year. him stating that rang a bell with most americans like it or not, esp when you head south. honestly, how many people get very upset if your trying to get something and the person cant speak english...this is something that happens frequently.

idk why people would be suprised that people would rally behind swagger/zeb when they head into these states as most of them agree with exactly what there saying. this is the issue i saw with the gimmick since creation especially against a hispanic/non english speaking. if they replaced adr with r-truth,kofi, ptp then it would be a completley different, but with swagger and zeb stating what they are .......newsflash, there stating what alot of americans think and this is why it will get thrown back in wwes face........... they attempted something edgy but couldnt go full throttle and now when they go to certain states swagger wont be a heel like they imagine.... hell i wasnt suprised AT ALL by the usa chants , nor would i be suprised if we hear it more south and mid west areas...

 

[vampxx24]

For me, that chant was the highlight of a bad Raw. It was my first live WWE event since SSlam 1995, and I have to say i was sorely disappointed. But back on topic...Personally that chant had nothing to do with the storyline and everything to do with Del Rio vs Swagger as wrestlers. Del Rio was dangerously close to X-Pac territory here in Pittsburgh. Nobody gave a shit about him, and the only reason for the entrance pop was RR basically asking the crowd to yell during his introduction. Since we don't like Del Rio, what else is there to do? Chant USA to fuck with him. It's not that we agree or disagree with Swagger and Colter, it's just that Del Rio is just not over as a face.

del rio is over idk what your hearing.... ricardo is over MORE than him however...and thats because he has been even when adr was heel.... if you think about it ricardo was facish weeks before adr face concept even happened. ricardo was very similar to santino, with all the comedy skits people started to adore them and he started to get face pops. the problem now with getting adr even more over is as this whole thread is about. there doing a a gimmick thats going to slap them back in the face as some have very similar views to the likes of what zeb and swagger are saying. they pulled the trigger way to early for this imo as there seeking to get ADR even more over with this program , they should of had him face someone else, not someone that a good portion of the country will agree with

 

[MillionDollarMan]

The sad thing is I'm from Pittsburgh. I was watching and thinking to myself "Wow, finally some racist pricks. I wonder what low-brow southern city they're in tonight." Then Cole said they were in Pittsburgh, and I just face-palmed.

Although, I will say that the outlying areas around Pittsburgh are big hubs for the Tea Party (especially Butler, PA). I was quite surprised when I moved here to see so much support for them (especially since PA went for Obama in 2008 and 2012). I even have quite a few friends that have the "Don't Tread on Me" flag in their living rooms.

The other thing that really surprises me is that Butler has often been called the "heroin capital of the US." I don't know how extreme conservatism and heroin use tie together, but it somehow does.

How can these remarks not be censored? They are only slightly related to the topic, then he just went on a bigoted anti-tea party rant and talking about extreme conservatism... whatever that means.

As for the situation at hand, you have an uncharismatic foreigner in the role of the good guy going into areas of high unemployment and telling them to support him and boo the guy that's telling them why their lives are so tough at the moment. Good luck with that.

It also doesn't help that Del Rio's character has always been about aristocratic elitism and his wealth which is just supposed to be forgotten because he's magically become a face? You're telling people to accept 2 different things at once and the cognitive dissonance is obvious. You cannot root for the rich foreigner over the middle america average joe no matter how hard you try. It's just not going to work.