TNA Region, Shanghai Subregion, First Round: (4) Bruno Sammartino vs. (29)Bobby Roode

Discussion in 'TNA Region' started by klunderbunker, Mar 30, 2014.

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Who Wins This Matchup?

  1. Bruno Sammartino

  2. Bobby Roode

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  1. klunderbunker

    klunderbunker Welcome to My (And Not Sly's) House

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    This is a first round match in the TNA Region, Shanghai Subregion. It is a standard one on one match held under TNA Rules. It will be held at the Shanghai Indoor Stadium in Shanghai, China.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    #4. Bruno Sammartino

    Vs.

    [​IMG]

    #29. Bobby Roode



    Polls will be open for four days following a one day period for discussion. Voting will be based on who you feel is the greater of the two competitors. Post your reasons for why your pick should win below. Remember that this is non-spam and the most votes in the poll win. Any ties will be broken by the amount of posts of support for each candidate, with one vote per poster.

    Also remember that this is a non-spam forum. If you post a response without giving a reason for your selection, it will be penalized for spam and deleted.
     
    #1
  2. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    Bobby Roode was an acceptable TNA Champion that had a slight above average length reign for today's standards, but to even compare him to Sammartino is asinine. The fact of the matter is, Sammartino has had by far the longest reign and the longest time with the most prestigious belt still around today, and was one of the biggest draws ever in the history of the wrestling business, without mainstream television being a factor. Slammiversary had an attendance of 5,500, and not all of that can be attributed to Roode. Not to mention, Roode was booked EXTREMELY weakly as champion.

    Sammartino steamrolls Roode.
     
    #2
  3. Mr. Artistic guy

    Mr. Artistic guy Better Off This Way

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    I'm absolutely certain that I would enjoy Roode far more than Sammartino on any given day. But the gap of accomplishments is just too far apart, no matter how it came about. Bobby Roode is one of the best in the world today and the longest reigning TNA world champion. Unfortunately that doesn't mean a great deal in a company a little older than a decade old.

    In earnest, the only thing that really separates these two guys is that Sammartino's effort got him over 11 years as a world champion and selling out MSG over 180 times I believe, whereas Roode's got him the better part of a year and losing to a guy that was the mid-card champion when they started feuding. I think Roode is better than Sammartino, but his accomplishments don't stack up.
     
    #3
  4. The Brain

    The Brain King Of The Ring

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    Sorry TNA fans, I know you're always looking for respect but a guy that has only competed in TNA is not going over a guy that was WWWF champion two times for a total of eleven years. Bruno's is definitely among the best ever and Roode clearly is not in his league.
     
    #4
  5. Papa Pillman

    Papa Pillman I've got more Ho's than Jim Duggan

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    This is the match between the man with the longest (W)WWE(F) title reign! And the man with the longest TNA title reign! How historic! What a tag line to be able to sell for this match! One guy held a legendary world title often defended at storied MSG for like 8.5 YEARS straight! The other guy held a semi-respectable world title often defended at a sound stage in storied Universal Studios for like 8.5 MONTHS straight! How could you ever choose a winner? My gut says to pick Sammartino, but either way- WOW! The history!
     
    #5
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  6. Danger Burger

    Danger Burger Thread Killer

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    Bruno wins this on legacy alone, but where would the fu in that be. I'll see if I can figure some devils advocacy on my travels.

    All right... Where do I start. Bruno Sammartino. Sure, 4040 days as champion. ten times longer than CM Punk. That doesn't hold up great in numbers against Bobby Roode's momentous run as longest reigning champ in TNA. But in a PWF-like moment of clarity, I found myself on Bruno Sammartino's ProFightDB page. This guy has wrestled less than 200 fights in his entire career. Bobby Roode wrestles more matches in a year than this guy did while holding a title for eleven years.

    Take a look at the top of the page. TNA region. Wrasslin. Bobby's home. Longest reigning champion in TNA history. Bobby Roode has won 50% off all his PPV matches. When it matters. This tournament matters. Sammartino? Never won on PPV. He has wrestled on PPV and is 100% defeated, every time.

    Bruno is the longest reigning WWF champ (so to speak), Bobby is not only TNA's longest reigning champ, but longest reigning tag champ too.

    One last thing in Bobby's favour... Tournament experience. Winner of the Bound For Glory series 2011, TNA Tournament of champions winner (all former champions, how former champions has Bruno beat?), Tna Tag team champion series winner, and Team 3D Invitational tag team tournament winner.

    Bobby excelled in the faster paced world of pro wrestling of the 21st century. Sammartino was a big fish in a small pond of a different era.

    256 days > 4040 days.
    178 wins > 171 matches.

    It pays to be Roode.

    Nuggets, I've actually convinced myself a little. Could someone tear this apart? Or maybe PWF could agree with me? Cheers guys.
     
    #6
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  7. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    What's the difference between those fights, and say a random tag match on Impact? Those matches were nearly always defences. Wrestling wasn't a weekly TV show like it was back then, it was at least monthly so that the events would draw. That's how booking was those days.

    And Bruno defended his title far more times than Roode ever did against opponents far more important to the wrestling industry than Roode.

    Let's not forget that Roode never won the title at Bound for Glory, he won it a few weeks later on Impact. Instead of giving him the big win on a PPV, they wasted it on Impact. Bruno meanwhile beat Buddy Rogers in 48 seconds to win his title.

    You're implying that the TNA Championship and the TNA Tag Team Championship means more than the longest run with the most prestigious title around today, and possibly ever.

    Oh wow, tournaments where none of the competitors, Roode included are even close to the leagues of Sammartino. And tag team tournaments don't mean much at all, if anything.

    Killer Kowalski? Giant Baba? Gene Kiniski? Stan Hansen? Bruiser Brody? There was also talk of him going over Lou Thesz to merge the NWA and WWWF titles.

    Oh wow, 178 wins, the two biggest of which is against an out of prime Kurt Angle, who beat him at Bound for Glory, and an out of prime Sting who beat him on Impact.

    I get you're a Roode fan, and you put together a better case than either PWF or enviousdominious could, but you can't compare these guys. Bruno trumps Roode.

    I'm going to end this with a quote from KB, so credit goes to him.

    "Let’s take a quick look at Roode’s title reign with the focus just on the PPV title defenses. We have: a cheating win over an injured AJ Styles, a draw against AJ Styles, a DQ loss to Jeff Hardy, a win after Sting hit Hardy with the title belt, a win over Sting after Sting knocked himself out, a win over Storm when Storm knocked Roode out of the cage, a win in a ladder match, a win after hitting Sting with a beer bottle but Sting winds up standing tall to end the show, and the loss to Austin Aries.



    In other words, Roode defended the title nine times on PPV and won a total of one match either on his own or without cheating. I understand the idea of a heel cheating to win, but once in awhile he needs to do more than escape with the title. It made his reign look weak and made him look like a guy who was lucky rather than good. The same thing was said for the Honky Tonk Man during his Intercontinental Title reign and that’s not something you want for the world champion."
     
    #7
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  8. Danger Burger

    Danger Burger Thread Killer

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    Thanks for humouring me, Fallout. I only argue in favour of Roode, because the guy deserves it. Maybe not the win, but definitely the argument. I may not even vote for him.

    Absolutely. Boking was a whole different beast in that day. I think its a little unfair to Roode to say his wrestling week in a week out is equal to the nice refreshing month off Sammartino had after each defence. Whats 4040 days when you only work one each month? Less than 200 days actively wrestling as champion. The era Roode wrestles in is not only booked differently, but a lot tougher on the body and especially on champions.

    Roode defended his title against the most important guys he could. Should he be a victim to his era? Through the men who forged wrestling into what it is today being retired? This is a neutral point as far as I'm concerned. Nothing means as much in wrestling now as it once did, or as it one day might.

    TNA is a foul beast indeed. I think its fair to note, however, that Buddy Rogers suffered a heart attack a week before his defence against Sammartino. A testament to Rogers strength that he would even compete, but if we are to talk clean wins later...? Also, taking the belt of Rogers was, because of the heart attack, a necessity. Sammartino did a fine job, but how much a part did luck play?

    I wasn't hoping to imply such as thing. However, I would like to attest an equality among these world titles for the sake of a fair tournament. Let us remember than at the time the WWWF was a mere territorial ground, not (as the name would imply) an international institution. At the time of his winning it, the WWWF title was less than the NWA title, though I would concede equality between the two for the sake of fairer arguing. The mention of the tag titles is mostly to show how decorated Bobby Roode is.

    Again, this is the fault of the times. To win a tournament of former world champions is nothing to be snorted at. Defeating Sting, James Storm and Samoa Joe in the same night doesn't have the buzz of some of the "classics" from Sammartino's time, but these are, in TNA's world, very tough opponents.

    All journeymen of the system, and well remembered no doubt. But again I would argue they are products of the system in place that Roode, if around, could have taken part in. Imagine if all of these men were in one company? Name value greatly increases when every town you enter you are made to look like a big deal to get your champ over. Truth is, Giant Baba and Bruiser (for example) would never have been legitimate contenders for the title by the simple virtue that they were journeymen. They weren't staying in New York. Wrestling was real back then, so they looked like they could have been, but Sammartino's position was never in question the way a champion in this era's would have been.

    Yes, two of the biggest against Former world champions. Who on the TNA roster would have been tougher challenges for Roode? He fought the best he could, and beat them.

    He does. I'd be a bigger fan too if I ever watched TNA. But I'm fearful that Sammartino only wins because of the Era he came from.

    A good idea.

    A win is a win. Is beating an injured AJ styles much worse than beating a guy who had a heart attack the week before? I see one DQ loss, and one Draw and then nothing but W till he loses the title? Have you looked at how many of Sammartino's defences were by count out and DQ? 18 DQ title defences and 25 count outs. Hardly a clean sheet either. Woring heel, Bobby was bound to win through underhanded methods, but win he did.

    Cheating, luck, looking weak... It's all part of the Heel gimmick. Find me a heel champion who didn't win by underhanded techniques every once in a while.
     
    #8
  9. Dan Severn's Moustache

    Dan Severn's Moustache Patent Pending

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    No worries at all. I like Roode too, it's just that he has a rotten draw this tournament.


    Bruno had more title defences to his name against guys who were in their prime that were bigger than all of Roode's competition. I get the era today makes it harder for champions to cling onto championships, but even in this era, guys have held a championship longer than Roode in the WWE where the competition is arguably better.

    You attacked Bruno for this, but when I proved you wrong, you decided to use this as an excuse. Also, that's not entirely true, John Cena and CM Punk manage to get pretty far in this tournament every year.

    Buddy Rogers had a reputation for being a lying bastard, and multiple people, Bruno included, proved him entirely wrong. Not to mention, it is what it is. And even if Rogers was telling the truth, maybe I would have supported your claim if he was a transitional champion, but he was the longest reigning WWWF champion ever. And he had another chunky reign on top of that.

    Considering I've done this for Henry vs Benoit, I'll throw you a bone. I hate to be that guy, but MSG drew far more than TNA could ever imagine. And guess who made the WWWF title as relevant as it is today and became the biggest draw ever outside of Hogan and maybe Thesz? Bruno.

    All guys outside of their prime, even out of their TNA prime. And yeah, Roode was out of his prime too by that stage, but his prime was after all three of those guys, so it he had an advantage in that regard.

    But Baba and Brody added a large amount of credibility to Bruno's reign, which as you mentioned, was their job. But Brody and Baba were still stronger opponents than the likes of past prime opponents that Roode was winning against. Ignoring the true transitional champion Ivan Koloff because a face beating Sammartino would damage that face's reputation, I'd argue Pedro Morales was a bigger deal than Austin Aries.


    A fair point, but getting back to the match at hand, what if prime Bruno took a time machine to face Roode? Roode would have no chance. Same with prime Angle, same with prime Sting.

    Sammartino was the best from the pre-Hogan era, apart from maybe Thesz.

    The heart attack was never apart of the storyline, or something that was confirmed as legit, unlike AJ Styles's injury. And that doesn't change the fact that he had only one clean win out of the entirety of his defences. Bruno had far more than one.

    >'every once in a while.'
    >every defence but one.

    You can vote Roode, I'm not going to be pissed off at you if you do. Hell, I'm pretty sure you accept that Bruno is better unlike someone like enviousdominous. I just can't buy Roode being a tough challenge to Sammartino. I reckon he'll get offence in for some of the match, but it'll be a quick 8 minute match, with Bruno getting a comfortable victory.
     
    #9
  10. Danger Burger

    Danger Burger Thread Killer

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    I would argue that TNAs weekly milion viewers is likely higher than the monthly intake at MSG, but... Is there much use? Inflation is a tricky beast going both ways.

    Well fought, Backstage Fallout. In truth, there is no way a guy like Roode can match a guy like Sammartino. Perhaps I'm simply choosing the wrong arena to question the legitimacy of a time where almost everyone seemed influential because there was little that came before them.

    A tough draw for Roode, but a tough draw for any wrestler. Vote goes to Sammartino.
     
    #10
  11. Tastycles

    Tastycles Turn Bayley heel

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    Yeah, uh ok. I don't think I'll ever take Roode seriously, there's something about him that is just a bit unconvincing. Here he faces one of the most big time wrestlers ever. I see people talking about relative defences, but Sammartino wrestled at a time when every show was an event. Roode wrestled TNA house shows to 3 or 400 people. It's just not the same. Sammartino sold out stadiums, regularly, and is stratospheres above Roode.
     
    #11
  12. ServantofTwilight

    ServantofTwilight Pre-Show Stalwart

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    Every year its the same old shit. Bruno didn't wrestle as much. Bruno didn't travel. Bruno didn't have competition. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

    Bruno Sammartino was a hard working champion. The champion had to defend or appear at almost every show to draw crowds. Guys like Sammartino, Thesz, Gagne, Race and even Flair rarely took a day off. Sammartino used to do his WWWF duties, then go to Canada to wrestle for his friend Frank Tunney, tour into the Midwest, California, Australia and Japan. He had every other Sunday off. Then it started again. He defended against all the top stars of the era. It was Bruno, who was burnt out from his schedule, who decided to drop the title in 1971. Gates dropped and he had to come back as champ in !973. Bruno was so over that in 1965 he was slated to go over Thesz to win the NWA title. Bruno refused.

    Oh well...on to the idiocy.


    Lets do the math. Bruno wrestles from 1960-1981, and 1985-1987. According to Danger Burger he wrestled a total of 171 matches in those 23 years. That's an average of 7.4 matches a year. Do I really needed to dispute this. Knowing these forums I guess I must.

    http://profightdb.com/wrestlers/bruno-sammartino-55.html?year=1969

    Here is the link to ProFightDB and Sammartino's page. Where are his matches in Canada? Where are all his matches in Japan vs Baba? Where is his match in Toronto vs Thesz for the NWA tile?

    Clearly this list is obscenely incomplete. Lets try another.

    http://www.cagematch.net/?id=2&nr=243&page=20

    This has Bruno's match count at 907. That's more like it. But according to Bruno's telling it still falls short. But it is better then the nonsense posted
    above.

    But lets also take into account how he ended up wrestling in 1985-87. In order for Vince McMahon to hire Bruno's son David Bruno had to come out of retirement. That is how important Bruno is. Even in the middle of Hulkamania Bruno was needed.

    Roode is a great wrestler. But come on.
     
    #12
  13. HBsam31

    HBsam31 Totally Reeking of Awesomeness

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    Roode is just a bit out of his league here. Roode is great in TNA, but Sammartino held the title almost as long as TNA has been in existence. Tough draw for Roode. Sammartino gets a nice warm up going to the second round.
     
    #13
  14. Danger Burger

    Danger Burger Thread Killer

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    What part of devils advocate made you think my stance was my own firm beliefs? I tried to argue the other side to make the tournament a little more fun. Nobody would be voting Roode either way, least of all myself. Sammartino was an unquantifiable success throughout his career.
     
    #14
  15. nightmare

    nightmare ...7, 8, Better stay up late...

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    Roode has started to come into his own the last few years, but is there enough career time left for him to be considered a legend? The clock sure is ticking.


    No matter what may happen, he still has no chance of catching up to the status that Bruno has. Bruno Sammartino carried wrestling on his back & a title around his waist for so long it is unreal. The man is a true legend in every sense of the word.


    Quite simple outcome here, even if Roode has the home court advantage. Bruno wins.
     
    #15
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