The prize of winning NXT: A loss on PPV.

[Dagger Dias]

Wade Barrett won the first season of NXT. His prize was a championship match on PPV. He challenged WWE Champion Sheamus at Night of Champions in a multi-man match. He also challenged WWE Champion Randy Orton last night at Survivor Series. He lost. Kaval won the second season of NXT, where the fans had a say in who won. His prize was also a championship match on PPV. He went a different route by challenging a midcard champion in Intercontinental Champion Dolph Ziggler at Survivor Series. He lost. So, I'm guessing this means the diva who wins season three will also win the same prize: a championship match on PPV that she will then lose. Seriously, is winning NXT even worth it if they aren't going to let these guys win their matches? I thought they were looking for the "next break out star of WWE"? They could just as easily have debuted on the show and still been booked to get a championship match without winning NXT. All that winning NXT has done for either winner is give them something to brag about, they received a loss on PPV by being last eliminated on a that barely anyone watches. That doesn't exactly scream "the next breakout star" to me. Barrett and Nexus could still have happened without NXT.

The question is this.... is winning NXT even worth it? I don't think so because these so called "next break out stars" are not winning their matches. Do you agree? Why or why not? If you disagree with me then prove me wrong in a debate. Discuss!

 

[D-Man]

Wade Barrett won the first season of NXT. His prize was a championship match on PPV. He challenged WWE Champion Sheamus at Night of Champions in a multi-man match. He also challenged WWE Champion Randy Orton last night at Survivor Series. He lost. Kaval won the second season of NXT, where the fans had a say in who won. His prize was also a championship match on PPV. He went a different route by challenging a midcard champion in Intercontinental Champion Dolph Ziggler at Survivor Series. He lost. So, I'm guessing this means the diva who wins season three will also win the same prize: a championship match on PPV that she will then lose. Seriously, is winning NXT even worth it if they aren't going to let these guys win their matches? I thought they were looking for the "next break out star of WWE"? They could just as easily have debuted on the show and still been booked to get a championship match without winning NXT. All that winning NXT has done for either winner is give them something to brag about, they received a loss on PPV by being last eliminated on a that barely anyone watches. That doesn't exactly scream "the next breakout star" to me. Barrett and Nexus could still have happened without NXT.

The question is this.... is winning NXT even worth it? I don't think so because these so called "next break out stars" are not winning their matches. Do you agree? Why or why not? If you disagree with me then prove me wrong in a debate. Discuss!

I guess you forgot about the other prize from winning NXT... a WWE contract.

OF COURSE it's worth it for these superstars to win NXT. It gets them branded on one of the main shows. Then, just like everyone else, they have to move up the ladder. And just like everyone else, they job at first. It's very rare to see someone walk into the WWE with a contract and dominate everyone.

As for the others that move up as well, NXT is similar to American Idol... even though the winner gets all of the notoriety and prizes, the top 5 usually get some kind of contract, as well. That's what happens with NXT. The WWE finds the top draws, uses them on TV, and allows the winner to get the main contract and what they're entitled to while the other top contenders get thrown into the mix of the branded shows, somehow.

 

[Arkham Noir]

What's funny about the whole thing is the fact that Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater are the tag team champions and Daniel Bryan is U.S. Champ. Not one of them won, yet they ended up with a title before the winner.

I think the idea of the title shot prize is to make it seem like winning is worth it, Because as D-man said, most will end up on the roster anyways. As for the actual lossing at the pay-per-view goes, I think it has been a conicedence that they have both lost so far. Barrett's losses are part of the storyline he is in and Kaval was just randomly thrown into a match to fill the obligation he was owed from his win, him winning would have been sort of pointless considering how little he has done since winning.

With that being said, I don't think it's a logical concept to guarantee a title shot to someone unless you have a plan for them. It worked out fine for Barrett because he was in the title scene anyways, but to blindly give someone a title shot without having any plans for them just becomes a mess.

To answer your initial question, I think it's worth winning because it automatically gets you a spot on on the roster, regardless of whether creative has plans for you or not, but I don't think that the title oppurtunity should be an incentive.

 

[The Brain]

From a kayfabe point of view it makes perfect sense for these guys to lose in their title matches. They are rookies. Why should we expect a rookie to beat a champion so quickly? Just because he beat a bunch of other rookies in some competitions? Like D Man said the contract is the true prize. The title shot, win or lose, is a benefit and an opportunity to get the guy in the spotlight right away. It sure beats going to Superstars and hoping to get noticed.

 

[MizFit Brocko]

From a kayfabe point of view it makes perfect sense for these guys to lose in their title matches. They are rookies. Why should we expect a rookie to beat a champion so quickly? Just because he beat a bunch of other rookies in some competitions? Like D Man said the contract is the true prize. The title shot, win or lose, is a benefit and an opportunity to get the guy in the spotlight right away. It sure beats going to Superstars and hoping to get noticed.

I understand that the contract is the main prize for winning NXT, but lets look at Season 2 for example. We have the winner Kaval sent to SD! where he couldn't win a match til he got the pin on Dolph 2/3 days before SS (he wasn't exactly getting many matches though), he then cashed in his title match and lost, in what was one hell of a match at least.

You then have Riley, Husky and McGillicutty, all runner's up on season 2 who are all getting more screen time, and are on the 'A' show RAW. 2 of them are apart of NEXUS, arguably one of the biggest factions/groups/forces in the WWE for a long time, and one of them following the Miz and getting screen time as well as the chance to help cut Miz's promo's. So they all got contracts as well as Kaval, and although Kaval got a title shot, he used it and failed, whilst the other 3 also got contracts, and even without the title shot, will probably go further than Kaval.

I guess what i am trying to get at, is that winning wasn't/isn't necessarily everything, it was the same as S1 where they all became apart of Nexus, although some of them were eventually scrapped, i guess they all got contracts of some sort. And it looks like it will go the same way with S3. AJ or Naomi will win, but i can honestly see Aksana and Kaitlyn as well as AJ and Naomi getting contracts. (Maybe not Aksana...)

 

[Big Sexy]

The question of "is it worth it?" is absolutely laughable. Of course it is. You think Barrett would have come in with the same momentum and think that the Nexus would be around without NXT? Fuck no. By winning NXT season one and forming the Nexus, Barrett became a main event player almost instantly. He is most certainly a break out star right now and it's all because of NXT.

Kaval hasn't had nearly the same luck but he is the only guy from NXT season 2 right now that is consistently wrestling on a weekly basis and while he may not be winning very often he is still putting on good performances and his match with Ziggler was very good. He would not have been in that spot if it were not for NXT.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I guess you forgot about the other prize from winning NXT... a WWE contract.

Right, but if that was the case then how was it worth it for Barrett and Kaval to (kayfabe) win a WWE contract by winning NXT, when guys like Riley and Bryan are also on the main brands? Any of these guys would still have gotten onto Raw/Smackdown somehow.

OF COURSE it's worth it for these superstars to win NXT. It gets them branded on one of the main shows. Then, just like everyone else, they have to move up the ladder. And just like everyone else, they job at first. It's very rare to see someone walk into the WWE with a contract and dominate everyone.

While it is rare for someone to walk into WWE with a contract and instantly dominate everyone, that doesn’t change the fact that the so called “next breakout stars” are losing to guys like Ziggler. Barrett’s loss on PPV is not as big of a deal as Kaval’s is. In Barrett’s scenario he got a world title shot immediately. Kaval lost to a midcarder, when he was the so called “next breakout star”. It makes winning NXT seem less important than the creative staff wants it to look.

As for the others that move up as well, NXT is similar to American Idol... even though the winner gets all of the notoriety and prizes, the top 5 usually get some kind of contract, as well. That's what happens with NXT. The WWE finds the top draws, uses them on TV, and allows the winner to get the main contract and what they're entitled to while the other top contenders get thrown into the mix of the branded shows, somehow.

That ties into my argument though. If they all get onto the main brands, then it makes winning the show less important. If there was a stipulation (a real life one, mind you, if NXT was not kayfabe’d) that those who lost would be forced to go back to developmental to work there more, it would make the winner of NXT look very important even if they lost to someone like Kozlov. The problem is that winning NXT is being made to look like it isn’t important at all when it should be something the character can be proud of his whole career. It isn’t if his opponents make it to the main brands at the same time he does AND if he loses his championship match.

 

[Dagger Dias]

What's funny about the whole thing is the fact that Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater are the tag team champions and Daniel Bryan is U.S. Champ. Not one of them won, yet they ended up with a title before the winner.

Exactly. This is part of what the problem is. Wade Barrett has yet to win a title while Slater, Gabriel, Otunga, and Bryan have all won titles already. It made it seem far less important for Barrett to win NXT.

Barrett's losses are part of the storyline he is in and Kaval was just randomly thrown into a match to fill the obligation he was owed from his win, him winning would have been sort of pointless considering how little he has done since winning.

I’ll give you the point on Barrett, but I disagree about Kaval. He was the winner of a season of NXT where the fans had a say in the votes. He should therefore not have been in a randomly thrown together match, let alone lose it. That doesn’t exactly scream “next breakout star” to me. Barrett is at least a lot closer to that.

With that being said, I don't think it's a logical concept to guarantee a title shot to someone unless you have a plan for them. It worked out fine for Barrett because he was in the title scene anyways, but to blindly give someone a title shot without having any plans for them just becomes a mess.

I think it would have been better to give them a midcard title or something. If they suck as champion then WWE could always put it on someone else. Then again, why have them win NXT if they aren’t good enough to be pushed? I agree, it is definitely a mess.

To answer your initial question, I think it's worth winning because it automatically gets you a spot on on the roster, regardless of whether creative has plans for you or not, but I don't think that the title oppurtunity should be an incentive.

Winning NXT still remains not worth it in my opinion, just another random thing to brag about that ends up being about as useless as the Bragging Rights trophy. Think about how badly MITB would have flopped if Edge and RVD had both lost back in 2006? The winner of an NXT season should win their title match on PPV. That truly shows that they are the next breakout star. It doesn’t have to be a world title. It could be the US or Intercontinental Championship. WWE should make us care about the fact that these individuals won NXT, and they currently aren’t doing that for myself or anyone who shares my opinion.

 

[Dagger Dias]

From a kayfabe point of view it makes perfect sense for these guys to lose in their title matches. They are rookies. Why should we expect a rookie to beat a champion so quickly? Just because he beat a bunch of other rookies in some competitions? Like D Man said the contract is the true prize. The title shot, win or lose, is a benefit and an opportunity to get the guy in the spotlight right away. It sure beats going to Superstars and hoping to get noticed.

While you have a good argument, there is one little problem…. Alex Riley, Daniel Bryan, and everyone from Nexus other than Barrett all got onto the main brands without the kayfabe’d contract that the NXT winner got. How prestigious and important does that make the NXT win look? Hardly important in my book. I don’t disagree with NXT itself because it IS better than relying on the jobber show (Superstars) to introduce these guys. However, the winners need to truly make a huge impact when they appear on Raw or Smackdown due to them being “the next breakout stars”. Barrett got lucky through the Nexus angle. Kaval, not so much. He might as well have lost NXT to Riley.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I understand that the contract is the main prize for winning NXT, but lets look at Season 2 for example. We have the winner Kaval sent to SD! where he couldn't win a match til he got the pin on Dolph 2/3 days before SS (he wasn't exactly getting many matches though), he then cashed in his title match and lost, in what was one hell of a match at least.

That doesn’t matter. The match was good but Kaval might as well have lost NXT. Him winning NXT season 2 has done absolutely nothing for him. He is a far cry from the next breakout star right now. I am a fan of the guy, but he lost to Ziggler. The so called “next breakout star” lost to a boring midcarder. That’s NOT a good thing.

You then have Riley, Husky and McGillicutty, all runner's up on season 2 who are all getting more screen time, and are on the 'A' show RAW. 2 of them are apart of NEXUS, arguably one of the biggest factions/groups/forces in the WWE for a long time, and one of them following the Miz and getting screen time as well as the chance to help cut Miz's promo's. So they all got contracts as well as Kaval, and although Kaval got a title shot, he used it and failed, whilst the other 3 also got contracts, and even without the title shot, will probably go further than Kaval.

Precisely. That is what’s wrong. Kaval winning NXT season 2 made no difference whatsoever. Look at it from the perspective of the people who did not watch NXT. Who out of the season 2 rookies looks the most like “the next breakout star” right now? Definitely not Kaval. Riley is Miz’s sidekick, two of them are in Nexus, and Kaval lost to a guy holding a belt that barely means anything anymore. They are not going to see him that way. I watched all of NXT season 2 and even I thought that Kaval didn't look anything like a breakout star.

I guess what i am trying to get at, is that winning wasn't/isn't necessarily everything, it was the same as S1 where they all became apart of Nexus, although some of them were eventually scrapped, i guess they all got contracts of some sort. And it looks like it will go the same way with S3. AJ or Naomi will win, but i can honestly see Aksana and Kaitlyn as well as AJ and Naomi getting contracts. (Maybe not Aksana...)

Right, which once again just fuels my own argument. Winning NXT means nothing if everyone else makes it onto the main brands too and wins championships or gets into stables before the winner does. WWE messed up on this one because they are making it seem like winning NXT is not worth the trouble due to everyone making it to the Raw/Smackdown anyhow and winning titles before the "next breakout star(s)" do. That's a major problem. Whoever wins season 3 will end up losing to Natalya or whoever is Divas Champion by then.

 

[Dagger Dias]

The question of "is it worth it?" is absolutely laughable. Of course it is. You think Barrett would have come in with the same momentum and think that the Nexus would be around without NXT?

So you mean to say that Nexus could not still have invaded Raw on June 7th 2010 without the existence of a show that less than 25% of Raw’s audience even watch? Nexus could have invaded without NXT and they would have made an even bigger impact if no one knew who they were.

By winning NXT season one and forming the Nexus, Barrett became a main event player almost instantly. He is most certainly a break out star right now and it's all because of NXT.

No. He is a breakout star because of Nexus. NXT had nothing to do with it. The first season was kayfabe’d. Barrett was picked to win it. He would still have led Nexus without it. WWE plans these things ahead of time, this isn’t TNA we’re talking about.

Kaval hasn't had nearly the same luck but he is the only guy from NXT season 2 right now that is consistently wrestling on a weekly basis

He is also the only guy consistently looking unsuccessful. McGillicutty and Husky found success by joining Nexus. Riley is the sidekick of a future WWE Champion. All Kaval has done is lose to Ziggler.

while he may not be winning very often he is still putting on good performances and his match with Ziggler was very good. He would not have been in that spot if it were not for NXT.

It doesn’t matter if the match was good. Shelton Benjamin had a ton of “great” matches. Look how “successful” he ended up. Kaval could easily still have debuted on Smackdown, challenged Ziggler, and then lost on PPV. All without NXT. Since when did you need to win NXT to lose on PPV to a boring modcard champion? Winning NXT does nothing for the winner until we see them winning titles and joining big stables before the other guys from the same NXT season because otherwise winning NXT is not worth it.

 

[Big Sexy]

So you mean to say that Nexus could not still have invaded Raw on June 7th 2010 without the existence of a show that less than 25% of Raw’s audience even watch? Nexus could have invaded without NXT and they would have made an even bigger impact if no one knew who they were.

No. Without NXT those are 7 random guys that no one has ever seen and has no reason to care about. Not everybody watched NXT but theses guys still made the occasional appearance on the main shows as well and people at least knew where they came from. Also if it weren't for the NXT show then they have absolutely no reason to be invading RAW. The entire group was based off how they were portrayed/treated during the first season of NXT. No NXT, no Nexus, and that is an undeniable fact.

No. He is a breakout star because of Nexus. NXT had nothing to do with it. The first season was kayfabe’d. Barrett was picked to win it. He would still have led Nexus without it. WWE plans these things ahead of time, this isn’t TNA we’re talking about.

Once again, if there is no NXT then the Nexus doesn't exist. That cannot be disputed. I'm sure you'll try and fail though.

He is also the only guy consistently looking unsuccessful. McGillicutty and Husky found success by joining Nexus. Riley is the sidekick of a future WWE Champion. All Kaval has done is lose to Ziggler.

Yes he lost. He lost to the United States champion, in a competitive match, on ppv. That trumps anything Riley, Harris, and Mcgilicutty have done thus far. Without NXT I doubt Kaval is on a main roster, let alone getting great exposure in a ppv title match.

Kaval could easily still have debuted on Smackdown, challenged Ziggler, and then lost on PPV. All without NXT. Since when did you need to win NXT to lose on PPV to a boring modcard champion? Winning NXT does nothing for the winner until we see them winning titles and joining big stables before the other guys from the same NXT season because otherwise winning NXT is not worth it.

That is a huge load of bullshit. How many guys (especially of Kaval's size) have debuted on a main roster and then gotten a ppv title match in under 3 months? No way that happens for him without NXT. Winning NXT gives you a guaranteed roster spot and a ppv title match. Just randomly debuting guarantees you jack shit.

 

[LitasRevenge79]

I have to say, it almost seems as if each season of NXT gets a progressively worse title shot. There's not really any title to go after with each passing season. Season 1, Barrett goes after WWE title, and forms Nexus. Then season 2, Kaval wins, jobs for quite a long stretch, then finally wins a match on SD, and gets a IC shot on 11/21/10, and loses. Then you have NXT season 3, the Divas. Which, is REALLY REALLY limited in scope, they only can go after the Diva's belt, which none of the remaining girls could really stand a chance against some of the girls in WWE right now, like McCool, Beth, Natalya, Melina. Then, if the rumors are true, and they do a NXT season 4 of Tag Teams...what's the point? Because it seems like WWE likes to randomly throw people together, just to have them win, and then break them up. Case in point, Hart Dynasty, Jeri-Show, Show-Miz, Dashing Ones, or you throw together random ass like Santin-Vladimir, or Mark Henry-Bourne, what would really be the point of another contract and title shot? To me, if you keep on going with this, you may as well bring back the cruiserweight belt, and re-introduce the lightweight divisions.

 

[HellbossMilitia]

I am a big fan of Wade Barrett, and I did support his win in NXT because he's dominant looking and has credential mic skills. He knows how to lay his voice down and sound good when doing it. It's a shame he hasn't won the World Title yet, but hopefully down the road you'll see a title on him. I know WWE has faith in him, and I'm just assuming they're waiting for the perfect time to get the belt on him.

I will say these recent losses Barrett has really made Nexus look more weak. I feel deep down the whole Nexus angle isn't as dominant anymore. Especially since their PPV loss against Team WWE. Even with Slater/Gabriel winning the tag titles, it still doesn't give them that much more credibility. We all know how the tag division is just terrible, and with the Hart Foundation splitting up (bad time imo) it just devalues the tag division even more.

I will say in a way maybe it's for the best. I know it's hard not to recycle old material from the old days at times, but it was looking as if Nexus was just turning out to be a rookie version of the N.W.O. If Cena would have turned heel, it would have definitely been a replica when Hogan turned on WCW.

Not to get off track, I just want to say I really do hope sooner or later down the road Barrett gets the title. Maybe with these last two losses trying to gain the title the WWE will allow him to be more meaner, tougher, and dominant in the ring. Having him go on a decent and solid winning streak with the occasional DQ or tag team loss without him being pinned.

 

[D-Man]

Right, but if that was the case then how was it worth it for Barrett and Kaval to (kayfabe) win a WWE contract by winning NXT, when guys like Riley and Bryan are also on the main brands? Any of these guys would still have gotten onto Raw/Smackdown somehow.

Guys like Riley and Bryan have to start with a blank slate and come into the company riding the coattails of a superstar. It's funny that you mention the two of them because the Miz is the one that elevated (or is currently elevating) then both. Barrett and Kaval can do it on their own, considering that they will always be known as the NXT winners.

While it is rare for someone to walk into WWE with a contract and instantly dominate everyone, that doesn’t change the fact that the so called “next breakout stars” are losing to guys like Ziggler. Barrett’s loss on PPV is not as big of a deal as Kaval’s is. In Barrett’s scenario he got a world title shot immediately. Kaval lost to a midcarder, when he was the so called “next breakout star”. It makes winning NXT seem less important than the creative staff wants it to look.

NXT was never about breeding the next world champion. It was about breeding the "Next Breakout Star." Therefore, it makes no difference whether they lost to a midcarder or a main eventer. The fact is that they won a title shot at a PPV. How they chose to utilize that was up to them.

That ties into my argument though. If they all get onto the main brands, then it makes winning the show less important. If there was a stipulation (a real life one, mind you, if NXT was not kayfabe’d) that those who lost would be forced to go back to developmental to work there more, it would make the winner of NXT look very important even if they lost to someone like Kozlov. The problem is that winning NXT is being made to look like it isn’t important at all when it should be something the character can be proud of his whole career. It isn’t if his opponents make it to the main brands at the same time he does AND if he loses his championship match.

You're overanalyzing the shit out of this. Come on now... if you weren't such a smark with this subject and you put yourself in the average fan's shoes, do you honestly think your point would even cross their minds? That's the problem with the IWC... we all break things down and keep digging to find validity behind our arguments when you're thinking on behalf of us; about 4% of the pro-wrestling fanbase. The majority of the fans couldn't give two shits about this stuff. Maybe you shouldn't, either.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Guys like Riley and Bryan have to start with a blank slate and come into the company riding the coattails of a superstar. It's funny that you mention the two of them because the Miz is the one that elevated (or is currently elevating) then both. Barrett and Kaval can do it on their own, considering that they will always be known as the NXT winners.

Miz could still have elevated them without NXT. Riley could still have debuted as Miz’s sidekick without ever appearing on NXT. Bryan could have debuted at Summerslam, with the kayfabe’d reason being Cena saying he searched all over the world for the best guy to help defeat Nexus, or something. That aside, both guys are still looking more impressive than Kaval who is meant to be “the next break out star”. Barrett could have broken out without winning NXT, just as Nexus could still have successfully invaded without the show happening.

NXT was never about breeding the next world champion. It was about breeding the "Next Breakout Star." Therefore, it makes no difference whether they lost to a midcarder or a main eventer. The fact is that they won a title shot at a PPV. How they chose to utilize that was up to them.

This is true. It does not have to be about the world title. However you missed the point. If they truly are “the next breakout star” shouldn’t they have won the match? A guy debuts in the midcard and wins the midcard belt in his first feud. Sounds like a breakout star to me. Kaval could have debuted on Smackdown and lost to Ziggler without winning NXT. Barrett could have founded Nexus without it. They don’t have to be invincible upon their debut, but losing their first PPV match (or most matches in Barret’s case) does not help them look like breakout stars.

You're overanalyzing the shit out of this. Come on now... if you weren't such a smark with this subject and you put yourself in the average fan's shoes, do you honestly think your point would even cross their minds? That's the problem with the IWC... we all break things down and keep digging to find validity behind our arguments when you're thinking on behalf of us; about 4% of the pro-wrestling fanbase. The majority of the fans couldn't give two shits about this stuff. Maybe you shouldn't, either.

Strong argument, D-Man. Sometimes I do dissect the product a bit too much. However you once again fueled my side of the argument. We both watched NXT, right? We are both part of the IWC. We followed these guys before they debuted on the main brands. Therefore we knew who they were. We also aren’t casual fans. That’s why it didn’t matter as much to people like us that these guys lost their PPV matches they won by winning NXT. Now, to the casual fan it might look a bit different. That is where this thread came from. It was me trying to view this from the casual fan’s point of view, if they would think either Barrett or Kaval truly are the next breakout stars.

Casual fans don’t watch NXT and most of them have no idea what it even is, as they just watch Raw and possibly Smackdown. They would have had no idea that Nexus was from NXT. To these casual fans Nexus were just a bunch of guys wearing N’s on their arms who invaded Raw with Barrett, who had been introduced as the winner of NXT (a show they had probably never heard of) and the next break out star. Thanks to the Nexus angle, Barrett fits the title of the next breakout star far more than Kaval does. Kaval, to the casual fans, is just some guy who debuted on Smackdown only to lose his Bragging Rights spot to Tyler Reks (who they have never heard of) and then went on to lose his PPV match to Ziggler. Kaval got introduced as the winner of NXT season 2 and WWE’s next breakout star. Doesn’t sound like a breakout star at all to me.

The bottom line is this…. both of the two NXT winners could have still debuted (in the eyes of the casual fan) without winning NXT then still go on to form Nexus and lose to Ziggler, respectively. The other competitors could also still have debuted without it. If winning NXT was really worth it then WWE would have waited to debut the guys who lost, or at least booked the winners a little stronger. Perhaps it’s just me over-analyzing once again. I generated discussion and made you guys think about it, so whether we agree or not it’s still an interesting topic and something to consider. WWE should make everyone believe that winning NXT is very important to the so called “next breakout stars”. Even the casual fans who have never heard of NXT should be able to agree with that in the end because the WWE would be booking these guys to truly look like breakout stars whether NXT existed or not.

 

[Dagger Dias]

No. Without NXT those are 7 random guys that no one has ever seen and has no reason to care about.

That’s exactly what they were when they formed Nexus. To the casual fan they were just 7 random guys wearing N’s on their arms who invaded Raw with Barrett. NXT or not.

Not everybody watched NXT but theses guys still made the occasional appearance on the main shows as well and people at least knew where they came from.

None of those appearances mattered though. No one is going to remember that Wade Barrett appeared on one Smackdown episode to fight off Edge when he attacked Jericho during the show before Wrestlemania or that Heath Slater had a tag team match with Christian on Raw.

Also if it weren't for the NXT show then they have absolutely no reason to be invading RAW. The entire group was based off how they were portrayed/treated during the first season of NXT. No NXT, no Nexus, and that is an undeniable fact.

Wrong. They would have had a reason to invade Raw if there was no NXT. Simply to invade. To make an impact upon their debut. They could have been guys called up from the developmental territory, handpicked by creative to invade the main show. Kind of like what happened in real life, only without NXT to introduce them to the hardcore fans that watched it. To the casual fans, which makes up the overwhelming majority of the fanbase, NXT’s existence made no difference.

Once again, if there is no NXT then the Nexus doesn't exist. That cannot be disputed. I'm sure you'll try and fail though.

I already disproved that. Could Wade Barrett have formed Nexus without winning NXT? Of course. The first season of NXT was kayfabe’d and the fans had no say in who got eliminated. Barrett was going to win it no matter what. What did he get for winning? A kayfabe’d contract for Raw? He could still have invaded Raw with the Nexus without that. INVADING means to enter by force and large numbers. Nexus could have done that through the same storyline without NXT ever existing.

Yes he lost. He lost to the United States champion, in a competitive match, on ppv. That trumps anything Riley, Harris, and Mcgilicutty have done thus far. Without NXT I doubt Kaval is on a main roster, let alone getting great exposure in a ppv title match.

Ziggler is the Intercontinental Champion, not the United States Champion. Look at it from a kayfabe’d standpoint rather than who was in the more important match. Riley is the sidekick of the new WWE Champion. Harris and McGillicutty are part of the team that are causing chaos everywhere. All Kaval has done is job to a boring champion. WWE did nothing to show us that he is our next breakout star. He should have won the match. He didn’t. His prize was a loss on PPV, which he could have gotten without NXT. There is no way that Kaval needed NXT in order to randomly debut, feud with Ziggler, and lost on PPV. None.

How many guys (especially of Kaval's size) have debuted on a main roster and then gotten a ppv title match in under 3 months? No way that happens for him without NXT. Winning NXT gives you a guaranteed roster spot and a ppv title match.

If winning NXT gives you a guaranteed roster spot and a PPV title match, then why did the guys in Nexus also get spots on the roster almost immediately afterward? Also, why wasn’t Kaval the first from season 2 to appear on one of the main brands? I’m aware that in these contests they have their eyes on virtually everyone from day one and that all will debut in the end other than those who suck. That’s not the point. The point is that winning NXT makes you the “next breakout star”. Barrett’s angle could have happened without winning NXT, as could Kaval’s PPV loss. Barrett could have become a breakout star without NXT. Kaval could have jobbed on PPV without NXT. Why? The answer is because WWE have not given us enough reason to think that winning NXT is important, or else the winners would be booked to the point where even the casual fans who have never heard of NXT will also agree that these guys are the next breakout stars.

 

[Kenny Powers]

I'm not sure if the winner of NXT gets a contract or a title shot or both at this point. Wade Barrett benefited the most from NXT along with the Nexus. It wasn't until Daniel Bryan was fired from WWE that he became popular though. Kaval really hasn't done much or even received a great response since winning NXT and going to Smackdown. I don't think whoever wins NXT should win whatever title shot they have coming to them.

Even though Bryan, Otunga, Gabriel, and Slater have won gold, Barrett is a bigger success. I think the show has become so watered down and so silly that after NXT season 1 people really didn't care who won Season 2 or even Season 3. Basically you don't have to win NXT to receive a WWE contract so it really doesn't matter if you win or not as long as you have talent. Its kinda like American Idol, but obviously not as big. People who don't win American Idol are usually more successful than the person who won the contest.

Tough Enough is the same thing. People who didn't win the competition eventually came to WWE anyway. Some were even more successful then the ones who did win. The show gets the rookies name out there and really does more for them in the short term then long term. Barrett is the only exception since he is the leader of the Nexus. Unfortunately Kaval doesn't have a exciting new stable to be apart of like Barrett had.

 

[Big Sexy]

That’s exactly what they were when they formed Nexus. To the casual fan they were just 7 random guys wearing N’s on their arms who invaded Raw with Barrett. NXT or not.

Even the casual fan had some clue of who they were and once they invaded and told the reason why they invaded I'm sure the casual fan learned a lot more.

None of those appearances mattered though. No one is going to remember that Wade Barrett appeared on one Smackdown episode to fight off Edge when he attacked Jericho during the show before Wrestlemania or that Heath Slater had a tag team match with Christian on Raw.

Of course it fucking matters. They may not remember everything perfectly but there were always NXT recaps and David Otunga hosted a fucking episode of RAW so of course there was some knowledge of these guys.

Wrong. They would have had a reason to invade Raw if there was no NXT. Simply to invade. To make an impact upon their debut. They could have been guys called up from the developmental territory, handpicked by creative to invade the main show. Kind of like what happened in real life, only without NXT to introduce them to the hardcore fans that watched it. To the casual fans, which makes up the overwhelming majority of the fanbase, NXT’s existence made no difference.

You are 100% wrong and the fact you think otherwise is absolutely laughable. The whole reason they gave for forming Nexus was because of the treatment they received and how they were perceived on the NXT show. That reason would not be usable at all if they just came from the developmental territory without any other prior appearances. Plus if they just came from developmental then why would it just be these 7 guys in particular? FCW is filled with tons of guys, it makes absolutely no sense to just pick 7 random guys for absolutely no reason.

I already disproved that. Could Wade Barrett have formed Nexus without winning NXT? Of course. The first season of NXT was kayfabe’d and the fans had no say in who got eliminated. Barrett was going to win it no matter what. What did he get for winning? A kayfabe’d contract for Raw? He could still have invaded Raw with the Nexus without that. INVADING means to enter by force and large numbers. Nexus could have done that through the same storyline without NXT ever existing.

Lol, you haven't proved shit other then your lack of a logical brain. You are caught in a huge conundrum with your shit argument and are trying to spout out some bullshit to prove something that can't be proven. No NXT = No Nexus. That's as simple as I can put it.

Ziggler is the Intercontinental Champion, not the United States Champion. Look at it from a kayfabe’d standpoint rather than who was in the more important match. Riley is the sidekick of the new WWE Champion. Harris and McGillicutty are part of the team that are causing chaos everywhere. All Kaval has done is job to a boring champion. WWE did nothing to show us that he is our next breakout star. He should have won the match. He didn’t. His prize was a loss on PPV, which he could have gotten without NXT. There is no way that Kaval needed NXT in order to randomly debut, feud with Ziggler, and lost on PPV. None.

My bad on the title but it's really irrelevant as both are mid card titles and not one is greater then the other. Secondly, he didn't job to anyone. He lost a competitive match and I could definitely see these two fighting again in the near future for the title. Without NXT there is ZERO chance Kaval has a ppv title shot within 3 months of his debut. I already asked you to show me some guys, especially of Kaval's physical stature, that were given ppv title shots within 3 months of their debut.

If winning NXT gives you a guaranteed roster spot and a PPV title match, then why did the guys in Nexus also get spots on the roster almost immediately afterward? Also, why wasn’t Kaval the first from season 2 to appear on one of the main brands? I’m aware that in these contests they have their eyes on virtually everyone from day one and that all will debut in the end other than those who suck. That’s not the point. The point is that winning NXT makes you the “next breakout star”. Barrett’s angle could have happened without winning NXT, as could Kaval’s PPV loss. Barrett could have become a breakout star without NXT. Kaval could have jobbed on PPV without NXT. Why? The answer is because WWE have not given us enough reason to think that winning NXT is important, or else the winners would be booked to the point where even the casual fans who have never heard of NXT will also agree that these guys are the next breakout stars.

You are delusional homie. No way are Barrett and Kaval at where they currently are without NXT. As for the other guys on the seasons, none have been as successful as the winners of the seasons. Maybe eventually they will be, but as of right now the winners have had the most opportunities and exposure. No one else from Nexus has reached anywhere near Barrett's success and no one from season 2 has really done shit other then a couple matches. Kaval has been a consistent performer and has already had a ppv title shot.

 

[D-Man]

Miz could still have elevated them without NXT. Riley could still have debuted as Miz’s sidekick without ever appearing on NXT. Bryan could have debuted at Summerslam, with the kayfabe’d reason being Cena saying he searched all over the world for the best guy to help defeat Nexus, or something. That aside, both guys are still looking more impressive than Kaval who is meant to be “the next break out star”. Barrett could have broken out without winning NXT, just as Nexus could still have successfully invaded without the show happening.

You're stating all of these opinions and have little to zero backup with facts. Therefore, I'm not sure how to take any of this. All you're doing is mentioning the "would've, could've, should've" in Dagger's fantasy booking. That's not going to convince anyone of anything.

This is true. It does not have to be about the world title. However you missed the point. If they truly are “the next breakout star” shouldn’t they have won the match? A guy debuts in the midcard and wins the midcard belt in his first feud. Sounds like a breakout star to me. Kaval could have debuted on Smackdown and lost to Ziggler without winning NXT. Barrett could have founded Nexus without it. They don’t have to be invincible upon their debut, but losing their first PPV match (or most matches in Barret’s case) does not help them look like breakout stars.

Man, you're really overanalyzing this.

Anything could have happened because this is a television show with predetermined outcomes. You're trying to redefine "Next Breakout Star" and mold its definition into a way to back up your theories. Face it... the next breakout star means the next young athlete to join the roster of one of the main broadcasted television shows. No one ever said anything about the next breakout star having to be someone who comes in like Brock Lesnar and destroys everyone or Santino Marella who walks in and wins the IC championship in his first match.

Strong argument, D-Man. Sometimes I do dissect the product a bit too much. However you once again fueled my side of the argument. We both watched NXT, right? We are both part of the IWC. We followed these guys before they debuted on the main brands. Therefore we knew who they were. We also aren’t casual fans. That’s why it didn’t matter as much to people like us that these guys lost their PPV matches they won by winning NXT. Now, to the casual fan it might look a bit different. That is where this thread came from. It was me trying to view this from the casual fan’s point of view, if they would think either Barrett or Kaval truly are the next breakout stars.

With all due respect, I call bullshit. You're absolutely not a casual fan. This argument proves that you're a smark who is looking for reasons to point a finger at another aspect of the product. You're making up your own definitions about and taking out of context the WWE's vision of their broadcast for NXT just to fuel your argument.

Trust me, I see where you're coming from. But you need to remember that NXT brought new superstars to us through our television screen that we never would have heard of, otherwise. And no matter what you think, out of all of the new wrestlers that have been brought to our attention via NXT, Wade Barrett and Kaval have gained the most notoriety. That means that winning NXT did more for them than it did for any of the other contestants... hence, your breakout star.

Casual fans don’t watch NXT and most of them have no idea what it even is, as they just watch Raw and possibly Smackdown.

Raw gets an average of 3.0-3.5 viewers each week while NXT gets a 1.0. That means 1/3 of the Raw and Smackdown viewers watch NXT. Sorry, but 1/3 of the pro-wrestling audience does not consist of the IWC and smarks. It's already been established that we're less than 10% of the pro-wrestling fanbase. So there goes your theory.

They would have had no idea that Nexus was from NXT. To these casual fans Nexus were just a bunch of guys wearing N’s on their arms who invaded Raw with Barrett, who had been introduced as the winner of NXT (a show they had probably never heard of) and the next break out star.

At the time when Barrett invaded Raw with the rest of the season 1 cast, NXT was doing a 1.4 rating. They were more than known to the fans. And when Cole and King introduced them as former NXT rookies, the NXT ratings for season 2 jumped again. Temporarily, but they still jumped.

Thanks to the Nexus angle, Barrett fits the title of the next breakout star far more than Kaval does. Kaval, to the casual fans, is just some guy who debuted on Smackdown only to lose his Bragging Rights spot to Tyler Reks (who they have never heard of) and then went on to lose his PPV match to Ziggler. Kaval got introduced as the winner of NXT season 2 and WWE’s next breakout star. Doesn’t sound like a breakout star at all to me.

He also came at the back end of a ratings slip with the show and is not as appealing to the eye of a casual fan as Wade Barrett in terms of size and strength. But remember, he was the most popular wrestler from season two as a result of the fans' vote. So he was like the skinniest fat guy in the room. It still made him the biggest breakout star out of the rest of the cast. Why should a title change any of that?

The bottom line is this…. both of the two NXT winners could have still debuted (in the eyes of the casual fan) without winning NXT then still go on to form Nexus and lose to Ziggler, respectively. The other competitors could also still have debuted without it. If winning NXT was really worth it then WWE would have waited to debut the guys who lost, or at least booked the winners a little stronger. Perhaps it’s just me over-analyzing once again. I generated discussion and made you guys think about it, so whether we agree or not it’s still an interesting topic and something to consider. WWE should make everyone believe that winning NXT is very important to the so called “next breakout stars”. Even the casual fans who have never heard of NXT should be able to agree with that in the end because the WWE would be booking these guys to truly look like breakout stars whether NXT existed or not.

Good job on the subject. It's an interesting topic to discuss, indeed.
However, we've established on this forum a million times over that titles, wins, losses... they don't matter in pro-wrestling. Its all about fan appeal.

Wade Barrett won NXT season 1 because the pros and WWE management felt he was the best of the season. So far, they've been absolutely right (with a close exception of Daniel Bryan, of course.) As for season 2, the WWE's chosing of a winner went along the guidelines of something that fuels their product... fan's perspective. They allowed us to vote for our favorite, just like in American Idol, America's Got Talent and Dancing With the Stars. You can't deny someone's popularity if they win a popularity-contest. No matter what way they're booked when they come into the WWE, they're still the winners of the fans' votes. That's a breakout star, if you ask me.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Even the casual fan had some clue of who they were and once they invaded and told the reason why they invaded I'm sure the casual fan learned a lot more.

No they wouldn’t. Casual fans wouldn’t know what NXT was and don’t keep up with who is in developmental. They only watch Raw and sometimes Smackdown. Nexus were all strangers to most of the casual fans. That’s why it still would have worked without NXT.

They may not remember everything perfectly but there were always NXT recaps and David Otunga hosted a fucking episode of RAW so of course there was some knowledge of these guys.

Very little if any, for the majority of fans. I knew who every last one of them were as well as some of their accomplishments in developmental. As would most of the regulars on here. We make up the minority of the fanbase though. The overwhelming majority don’t keep up with that stuff and didn’t watch NXT. It got less than 1/3 of Raw’s ratings.

You are 100% wrong and the fact you think otherwise is absolutely laughable. The whole reason they gave for forming Nexus was because of the treatment they received and how they were perceived on the NXT show. That reason would not be usable at all if they just came from the developmental territory without any other prior appearances. Plus if they just came from developmental then why would it just be these 7 guys in particular? FCW is filled with tons of guys, it makes absolutely no sense to just pick 7 random guys for absolutely no reason.

Ever heard of something called kayfabe? The Nexus invasion was an angle. A storyline. The fact that they made it about their treatment on the NXT show was icing on the cake. It could still have worked without it. They could have invaded as nothing else but simple invaders. Why would it be just those 7? For the same reason that those 7 were picked to be on NXT season one to begin with. They were chosen to be in the Nexus angle before NXT ever aired.

Lol, you haven't proved shit other then your lack of a logical brain. You are caught in a huge conundrum with your shit argument and are trying to spout out some bullshit to prove something that can't be proven.

So you’re resorting to attacking my character rather than trying to prove me wrong? Looks like I’ve got this debate won. Try proving me wrong instead, as insulting me doesn’t do a thing towards showing why winning NXT is worth it.

No NXT = No Nexus. That's as simple as I can put it.

That’s not true and you know it. If they invaded Raw and formed the Nexus, out of developmental without NXT, then they still would have made a huge impact and the storyline could have played out identically to how it did in real life with the one difference being that they wouldn’t mention their treatment in NXT. They would just be invaders who wanted to make a statement of domination.

My bad on the title but it's really irrelevant as both are mid card titles and not one is greater then the other. Secondly, he didn't job to anyone. He lost a competitive match and I could definitely see these two fighting again in the near future for the title. Without NXT there is ZERO chance Kaval has a ppv title shot within 3 months of his debut. I already asked you to show me some guys, especially of Kaval's physical stature, that were given ppv title shots within 3 months of their debut.

Size doesn’t matter. Kaval has fan appeal. He was famous before coming to NXT, let alone Smackdown. That fame would have earned him a small push regardless of NXT. He still would have gone on to feud with Ziggler and lose in the match. Perhaps you’re right that I was too harsh about the match, he didn’t job but he should be the Intercontinental Champion right now. He has far more fan appeal than Ziggler ever could. If they do a rematch I see the title changing hands easily.

You are delusional homie. No way are Barrett and Kaval at where they currently are without NXT. As for the other guys on the seasons, none have been as successful as the winners of the seasons. Maybe eventually they will be, but as of right now the winners have had the most opportunities and exposure. No one else from Nexus has reached anywhere near Barrett's success and no one from season 2 has really done shit other then a couple matches. Kaval has been a consistent performer and has already had a ppv title shot.

Barrett has had more success and is indeed a breakout star compared to his season 1 peers, other than perhaps Bryan who has already held a title. He’s already a main eventer though and that still puts him above Bryan. Now with Kaval, you still haven’t proven me wrong. He is on Smackdown losing to Ziggler while three of his season 2 peers are on Raw getting more exposure. He may be a consistent performer and got a title shot, but he has not been as successful so far as a “next breakout star” should be in my opinion.

 

[Dagger Dias]

Anything could have happened because this is a television show with predetermined outcomes. You're trying to redefine "Next Breakout Star" and mold its definition into a way to back up your theories. Face it... the next breakout star means the next young athlete to join the roster of one of the main broadcasted television shows. No one ever said anything about the next breakout star having to be someone who comes in like Brock Lesnar and destroys everyone or Santino Marella who walks in and wins the IC championship in his first match.

No I’m not. The “next breakout star” is someone who gets to be on the main roster then is suddenly popular and successful. Perhaps they are just going about it in a much slower fashion with Kaval. I’m 100% wrong if that’s the case and I’ll admit you might have me beat on this one.

With all due respect, I call bullshit. You're absolutely not a casual fan. This argument proves that you're a smark who is looking for reasons to point a finger at another aspect of the product. You're making up your own definitions about and taking out of context the WWE's vision of their broadcast for NXT just to fuel your argument.

You misunderstood, I’m the complete and total opposite of a casual fan. I’m a lifetime fan of WWE as well as a mark for several of its stars. Then there’s all the time I’ve spent on this forum. I was trying to view the product from a different perspective, one that is absolutely not my own view.

Trust me, I see where you're coming from. But you need to remember that NXT brought new superstars to us through our television screen that we never would have heard of, otherwise. And no matter what you think, out of all of the new wrestlers that have been brought to our attention via NXT, Wade Barrett and Kaval have gained the most notoriety. That means that winning NXT did more for them than it did for any of the other contestants... hence, your breakout star.

It did for Barrett but I don’t see it for Kaval. Three of his peers from season 2 have gotten more exposure. They are on Raw, Riley is the sidekick of the new WWE Champion, while Husky and McGillicutty are in Nexus helping Barrett. All Kaval has done is shown up on Smackdown, lost his spot on Bragging Rights to Tyler Reks (of all people), and had a couple of matches with Ziggler. Does he have the potential to still gain a good rise to the top? Sure! That doesn’t mean he has fulfilled it.

Raw gets an average of 3.0-3.5 viewers each week while NXT gets a 1.0. That means 1/3 of the Raw and Smackdown viewers watch NXT. Sorry, but 1/3 of the pro-wrestling audience does not consist of the IWC and smarks. It's already been established that we're less than 10% of the pro-wrestling fanbase. So there goes your theory.

Good point but look at it this way. That means when Nexus formed, 1 in every 3 Raw fans knew who they were. That also means that 2 in every 3 did not. So if they formed with 30% or so knowing who they were in advance, then that in turn means they successfully formed with about 70% of fans not knowing who they were. Thus, they could have been successful without NXT given that 2/3 of the fans didn’t know who they were anyway.

He also came at the back end of a ratings slip with the show and is not as appealing to the eye of a casual fan as Wade Barrett in terms of size and strength. But remember, he was the most popular wrestler from season two as a result of the fans' vote. So he was like the skinniest fat guy in the room. It still made him the biggest breakout star out of the rest of the cast. Why should a title change any of that?

He won due to fan votes. I don’t think WWE had planned on him being the winner but enough fans voted in to get him the win. That makes sense when you think about it. They then had to get Kaval a push somehow to please the fans that voted for him, so he gets a shot at a midcard title. If they had meant for him to win then he would have gotten a bigger push. Maybe not as big as Barrett’s, but larger than this. Riley would have won without the fan votes, thus why he has had the most exposure after NXT season 2 ended.

Good job on the subject. It's an interesting topic to discuss, indeed.
However, we've established on this forum a million times over that titles, wins, losses... they don't matter in pro-wrestling. Its all about fan appeal.

Very true. Otherwise we wouldn’t be stuck with Miz as the WWE Champion right now.

Wade Barrett won NXT season 1 because the pros and WWE management felt he was the best of the season. So far, they've been absolutely right (with a close exception of Daniel Bryan, of course.) As for season 2, the WWE's chosing of a winner went along the guidelines of something that fuels their product... fan's perspective. They allowed us to vote for our favorite, just like in American Idol, America's Got Talent and Dancing With the Stars. You can't deny someone's popularity if they win a popularity-contest. No matter what way they're booked when they come into the WWE, they're still the winners of the fans' votes. That's a breakout star, if you ask me.

Right. We got to vote for who we liked, which is why Kaval won. I doubt he would have won otherwise. He did however and that got him his spot on the Smackdown roster as well as his current push. Perhaps my argument was a bit too full of wishful thinking and over-analyzing the product, but I got a great discussion out of our debate as well as some of the other posts in this thread. I think you got me on this one, so this is my closing argument. Good job, buddy.

 

[Big Sexy]

No they wouldn’t. Casual fans wouldn’t know what NXT was and don’t keep up with who is in developmental. They only watch Raw and sometimes Smackdown. Nexus were all strangers to most of the casual fans. That’s why it still would have worked without NXT.

Once again these guys made appearances on RAW before and David Otunga even hosted one RAW. The superstars themselves may have been unknown but where they came from was known by more people then you're giving credit for.

Very little if any, for the majority of fans. I knew who every last one of them were as well as some of their accomplishments in developmental. As would most of the regulars on here. We make up the minority of the fanbase though. The overwhelming majority don’t keep up with that stuff and didn’t watch NXT. It got less than 1/3 of Raw’s ratings.

1. I realize the majority of the fan base are not hardcore fans but they also aren't stupid.

2. Just because NXT only got 1/3 of RAW's ratings doesn't mean people were completely oblivious to its existent. The first season especially had tons of hype around it and was talked about on RAW many times.

Ever heard of something called kayfabe? The Nexus invasion was an angle. A storyline. The fact that they made it about their treatment on the NXT show was icing on the cake. It could still have worked without it. They could have invaded as nothing else but simple invaders. Why would it be just those 7? For the same reason that those 7 were picked to be on NXT season one to begin with. They were chosen to be in the Nexus angle before NXT ever aired.

You are completely missing the point. The thing that made this angle work was the fact it had a great reason behind it and the seeds for it had been planted before the actual angle took place. 7 guys just randomly showing up lacks substance, lacks good reasoning, and it would not make for a good angle because it just doesn't make much sense. There would be way too many loose ends that would have to be explained.

So you’re resorting to attacking my character rather than trying to prove me wrong? Looks like I’ve got this debate won. Try proving me wrong instead, as insulting me doesn’t do a thing towards showing why winning NXT is worth it.

1. I'm attacking your stupidity on this particular subject, not your character.
2. I've proved you wrong many a times in this debate. Don't mistake a couple insults for anything other then what they are.

That’s not true and you know it. If they invaded Raw and formed the Nexus, out of developmental without NXT, then they still would have made a huge impact and the storyline could have played out identically to how it did in real life with the one difference being that they wouldn’t mention their treatment in NXT. They would just be invaders who wanted to make a statement of domination.

No it really wouldn't have. I've already stated a few reasons why and to add another is the fact that they NEEDED Wade Barrett to have that guaranteed contract. That's another facet of the storyline that was needed to make it more realistic and believable. This angle without NXT just wouldn't have worked nearly as well if at all because NXT was a huge part of the basis for the angle.

Size doesn’t matter. Kaval has fan appeal. He was famous before coming to NXT, let alone Smackdown. That fame would have earned him a small push regardless of NXT. He still would have gone on to feud with Ziggler and lose in the match. Perhaps you’re right that I was too harsh about the match, he didn’t job but he should be the Intercontinental Champion right now. He has far more fan appeal than Ziggler ever could. If they do a rematch I see the title changing hands easily.

On one hand you say that Kaval has fan appeal because of places like ROH and TNA. On the other hand you say people had no idea who the NXT guys were because only 1/3 of the major WWE audience watched NXT. Last time I checked even less of the RAW audience watches TNA and ROH so you are contradicting yourself completely. Kaval to the majority of the WWE audience was not that well known and there is no way he gets in the title picture this quickly without NXT.

Barrett has had more success and is indeed a breakout star compared to his season 1 peers, other than perhaps Bryan who has already held a title. He’s already a main eventer though and that still puts him above Bryan. Now with Kaval, you still haven’t proven me wrong. He is on Smackdown losing to Ziggler while three of his season 2 peers are on Raw getting more exposure. He may be a consistent performer and got a title shot, but he has not been as successful so far as a “next breakout star” should be in my opinion.

Kaval may not be doing that much but you can't sit there and tell me he is doing less then the other three. Riley is a lackey who has gotten his ass kicked a couple times in matches. Harris and Mcgilicutty have been in one match I believe and other then that are just at the bottom of Nexus not doing shit. A ppv title shot is a whole hell of a lot better then all of that.